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Leading Saints
The Power of the Mentor Mindset | An Interview with James Logan and Bart Warner
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- [00:02]
A
All right, here's our goal, folks. Leading Saints is no longer a podcast. Well, obviously we are a podcast. We will continue to podcast, but we're really shifting our focus over to Zion Lab, which is an online community put on and developed by Leading Saints. And this is where we want to go and gather the masses and share ideas about leadership, share ideas about different callings, share ideas about building Zion. And this is the place that we want to make online, where all things are discussed, great ideas are shared, and that we can help one another in whatever calling we're in or what calling we're not in. To feel like, you know, I've got purpose here. I can really make a difference in shifting culture in a better way or developing Zion in my own corner of the kingdom. So join us over at zion lab@leadingsaints.org Zion and there you can just jump in. It's free to join and create a profile and jump in and look around and answer some questions, leave a comment, pose a question. And I think you'll benefit from the things we're doing over at Zion Lab. So join us. I would be rude if I didn't take the time to explain to the newer listeners what Leading Saints is. Here goes. Leading Saints is an organization that started as a hobby blog in 2010 and then really caught some traction in 2014 when the podcast started. We talk about all things leadership in the context of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. We aren't owned by the church, but we have a great relationship with them and always aim to be faith promoting, even though we talk about the tough topics. My name is Kurt Frankham. I'm generally the voice you hear as the host of the podcast. I've tried to get other hosts, but people demand my smooth tone and I really enjoy it. Check out leadingsaints.org to really get into the weeds of what Leading Saints is and learn all about our mission to help Latter Day Saints be better prepared to lead. Hey, welcome to the Leading Saints podcast. In this episode, I bring in a mission president, missionary duo, two individuals who met in that scenario on their mission in Dallas, Texas. This is Bart Werner and James Logan, and we talk about the dynamics of mentorship. This is a big leadership concept, and especially as we build Zion, we should be striving to help one another building relationships, taking the wisdom of maybe the next generation above us and sharing that and creating these relationships. And it's a beautiful, you know, mutual blessing that can take place as these relationships form. So I sit down with James and Bart and we just talk about their relationship. And Bart shares various principles about mentorship
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B
that have come out in his journey just as a, as a business owner,
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A
but also as a mission president, as he's striving to not only mentor missionaries while they are missionaries, but after as well, and building those relationships and, and helping others. It's just a beautiful way of service that all of us can participate in. All of us can be mentors in some way and we should seek out mentorship from others as well.
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B
And I think it'll bless the kingdom
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A
as we build it together. So here's my interview with Bart Warner and James Logan.
- [03:16]
B
Today. We got James and Bart and maybe just quickly summarize. James, you summarize. What's this relationship? How did this come to be and where is it at now?
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C
Well, Bart was my mission president when I was a LDS missionary back in the day. And now he's my employer and my mentor, my friend. But yeah, I learned a lot from Bart over the years and so I've just brought him in here to talk about mentorship.
- [03:44]
B
Yeah. And I know James from a previous ward. We were buddies there. We did the good work and out in Stansbury Park. Right. And, and then connected with Barton. Here we are. This, we went to lunch and this led to a conversation. So Bart, what maybe tell us how you're like, how does your mission presidency begin or what's the story behind being called there?
- [04:04]
D
Well, it was 23 years ago. We, I was just finished developing a hundred acre truck center with a dozen different companies in the middle of 400 acres of trucking companies were provided all the services. But I got a call, I was 52 years old and I got a call to see if I would, if I could take off for three years. And.
- [04:29]
B
And away you went. Right.
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D
We, we decided I was advised in my patriarchal blessing to accept all calls. So I said yes. And that's cool. My wife agreed too.
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B
And what was the name of the mission?
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D
Texas Dallas.
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B
Mission Texas Dallas. Nice.
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D
It's been split three times since we were down there 20 years ago.
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B
I bet. And I'm sure you met many missionaries like James and they've become like a mentorship relationship. And that's maybe the general focus of our conversation here. Right. And we'll get more into your stories and things like that. But where's a good jumping off point with this principle that as far as you've learned as far as mentorship or things like that?
- [05:08]
D
Well, I've been intrigued with a couple of scriptures. 1 Moses, 1:39 where the Father and the Son's work in glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. And we've been commanded to become perfect like them. So this earth life is that opportunity to progress as much as we can. And how do we do that? And I recently got released as a single adult ward bishop. And having four kids in that 35 to 45 range, I was a little intimidating because I vividly understood the fact that you don't teach kids in that age anything unless they beg you. And it's rare they do that. So you just love them and watch them progress and succeed. But so in this calling, it was interesting because one of the. My ward mission leader was a real sharp guy, but he gave me a book that he said he read every year. It was written by Napoleon Hill, who wrote Think and grow rich in 1937 towards the end of the Depression. But he wrote another manuscript in 1939 that when his wife read it, she said, you're not going to publish this until we're dead.
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C
Oh, wow.
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D
Because she was so worried that the devil, it's called outwitting the devil. He said, they're going to come. He's going to come get us if you expose him like this. But so it got published in 2011 and it's amazing. It basically is an interview with the devil, somewhat like Screwtape letters. But he explains how he gets people under his grip, which he says, I have 98% of the population under my grip because he's basically, he gets them to feel like drifting is okay, just cruising down the lazy river and, and not progressing. It's just, he makes us put thoughts in our head that like in second Nephi 28, we can't do this. It's too hard. Let's just kind of get through this life. But I don't think that's what this life's all about. And I've had some great experiences in my life that have changed my life directly, dramatically by having great mentors. So I've tried to study what makes a great mentor and really it's being a great mentee. So I think that'd be interesting to talk about today. How do we attract great mentors in our life? There's a guy named James Hughes who's a third generation financial planner and he's written a couple of books that are really interesting. He says he's not lds, but he said he's seen that great mentors come in your life whenever you desperately need and want them. And Then once they've delivered the message and the help you need, they will disappear just as fast, which will be devastating. But I think back in my life of the great mentors I've had.
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B
Yeah. I want to ask you, who are some that stand out in your life that mentored you?
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D
Well, from a temporal standpoint, my father had a relationship with a guy that ran 20 groups. He was a Ford dealer and this guy's name was Harry Pritchard. And he Chrysler hired him to get rid of the worst Chrysler dealerships in the 80s, but instead he turned most of them around.
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B
Oh, wow.
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D
Were highly successful. So I listened to him and he had a method of running a dealership that ended up. I give it credit for helping us become the largest freightliner dealer in the country and several other truck lines that we represented. And James Logan runs our Utah tank and trailer company that it's the top Mack tank dealer in the West. And using the principles and having the metrics to go by to know where to be and what to shoot for is was a huge advantage.
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B
So he kind of taught you the ropes of that industry early on.
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D
Yeah. And as I've tried to help other missionaries after the mission start businesses and do things, very few industries have those metrics. So you're kind of just out there trying to figure it out. And it's really hard to be successful if you don't know where you're going and where you need to be.
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B
Yeah. How about spiritual mentors as you were developing as a young man?
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D
Well, it's interesting, of course. My father was a great mentor to me. Rick Warner, he was a student body president of his elementary, junior high, East High, University of Utah. People loved him and he had the most amazing way with people. Everybody he met, he could remember their name and just the way he shook their hand or after a sacrament meeting. He taught me, you know, people have spent a lot of time, they hate speaking, most of them, and they're real nervous they're going to crash. So if you go up to them after the sacrament meeting and shake their hand and say thanks for taking the time to effort you put into that talk. Here's what I learned from and I really appreciate it. Just, you know, gives them a huge lift. That's really valuable in a relationship.
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B
Yeah.
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C
That's awesome.
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B
James, I'm curious a little bit about your story. Put it into context as far as your life before the mission. Was it. Was that an easy decision, an obvious path for you?
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C
You know, I've always been a member of the Church. But it wasn't an easy decision necessarily for me. My father was a convert to the church, so I didn't have an older brother or father that had gone on a mission before me. In fact, when I was younger, my parents got divorced and I got to live kind of an interesting double life, we'll call it, because my father was always real stable and he had one way of life. And then my mother, she ended up straying away from the gospel and from religion and made some pretty poor choices and got involved with drugs, and it made life really difficult for her. And so between the two homes there, I ended up going to 12 schools in 12 years.
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B
Holy cow.
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C
I know. But, you know, I always had that my father's side there that was always stable and whatnot. And so I actually graduated at 17, and I didn't leave for a mission until I was 20. But I think the thing that helped me out going, getting ready to go on a mission was in General Conference. And I remember being there in conference center, and I didn't really want to go on a mission. I had a job, I had a girlfriend. I had a lot of things going, I thought, for me at the time. But I had a girlfriend that I knew wanted to have a returned missionary in her life. And the prophet there at General Conference, he came out and he just said it was no longer I hope you can go on a mission kind of thing. It was if you were worthy, you were called to the work.
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D
And.
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C
And I knew I didn't have any problem with my worthiness, and so I was called to the work. And so that's kind of what got me out there.
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B
And was Bart your first mission president or did you have multiple mission presidents?
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C
I did have two mission presidents, so Bart was my first mission president. And then I had Barry Smith as my second mission president out there.
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B
Nice. And what do you remember from that first interaction? Or just getting to know Barton as your mission president, what was that like?
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D
Oh, maybe I can tell this story.
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B
Yeah, that's. Sure, yeah.
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D
So, you know, we had about 400 plus missionaries in the three years. And they're all unique and different and amazing. But remember, we did signed our trainers every six weeks. You know which you get new trainers or you have to call trainers, which was the most important calling more than an assistant to me to train them. Right. The first time. And yeah, then you don't have a problem. So we go out to East Texas, where he was in Athens or Palestine.
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C
Palestine.
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D
Palestine. And I always interview the trainer first to see how Things are going. And I said, how's it going with Elder Logan? He said, oh, not good, President. I think he wants to go home. I said, what's the matter? I don't know. He just doesn't like it.
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B
Was this true, James? Were you in that state of mind?
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C
Yeah, it definitely was a change of pace for me. I went from doing whatever I wanted to for three years on my own to having a white Bible in my pocket that had so many rules, I couldn't even think of them all, you know?
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D
Well, he said there was another missionary that he kind of admired that seemed to be having success but wasn't keeping all the rules. So anyway, so I'll bring him in. And I said, how's it going, James? And he said, not good. I said, what's the matter? Of course, then what he didn't tell you too is he was his dad moved to Tooele to get away from the street fights he was getting into down in.
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B
He's still in that James was getting into.
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D
Yeah. So when he moved to too, Willa, he's an athletic guy.
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B
Yeah. I wouldn't mess with James.
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D
I know that he decided to start doing MMA and was very successful at it. But he said, this mission is tougher than any street fight I've ever been in and I just need to go home. So I said, well, tell you what thought came into my mind. Are you keeping all the rules in the white hand? Well, first of all, I said, we can do that. I can take you right to the airport after this interview or let me ask you a question, though. Are you keeping all the rules in the white handbook? He says, well, not totally. I said, I'll tell you what, you got this little girlfriend that you don't want to disappoint. Ah, no, but it's okay. It's just too tough. And your bishop and your dad and your stake president. He said, no, I just got to go. Said, what if you take one week, keep every rule in the white handbook, and if you still want to go home, I can at least tell all those people that you made a sincere effort. Is that a deal? And he said, I'll do that. And a week later I called him. I said, how's it going? He said, present. This has been the most amazing week of my life. I said, why is that? He said, tracked it into this guy that I know is going to get baptized. He's about my age, and we're going to be friends for life. And this is just awesome. I didn't see him I went home about a year after he got out and then he invited me to his homecoming when I came back. So I went out there and he's given this talk and he didn't tell all this story, but he told the story about finding this person that was now on a mission in Tooele and would have been there, but he was teaching a discussion. So it was kind of cool that that happened.
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B
Anything you'd add from your point of view about that process?
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C
Well, just that, you know, we all know going on missions is tough. And I know that when they drop you off in the Texas Dallas mission, they call it going out east. And so you can be in Dallas, which is the heart of the city, but I was out east. And so they take you out there and they drop you off at a McDonald's in the middle of nowhere. And you know, my first day I'm out there at this McDonald's and my companion, he goes to the bathroom and I have a pass along card in my pocket. So just to be like a missionary. I see this guy there and I'm like, hey, you know, I'm going to pass out this card to this gentleman here. And I picked the one crazy guy in McDonald's to pass this car. Pass along card out to. There had been a van, I could see it outside in the parking lot that had some religious things written on it. And of course I picked that guy. Well, this guy ends up standing up on the table in McDonald's and just yelling out like false prophets, you're all going to hell. And it just scaring the bejesus out of me. I was a green missionary, brand new first day. And you know, it was tough out there at that bit, but I think part of got the story pretty well, right. And you know, I did have a wonderful experience out there. And I did get to meet Daniel. Bieta was the young man that I ended up teaching. And he changed my whole mission. So Daniel, he was from Guatemala and he spoke Spanish and very little English and I don't speak a whole lot of Spanish. So it was definitely the spirit that helped us get together there. And it was unmistakable that by following the rules to the mission, blessings came from that. And yeah, Daniel, I was able to see Daniel get baptized. And I baptized Daniel and then I was able to accompany him to the temple and he was called to the Salt Lake City West Mission. And yeah, he actually left for his mission before I got home. And so then I got to come home from my mission and I got to go out with Daniel on his mission.
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B
That's so cool.
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C
Pretty cool.
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B
That's awesome.
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D
So there's some great lessons we can learn from that, just obviously by following the commandments or the plan. But before we forget, I want to have James tell you the other story, too. That there's a little town next to Palestine called Athens in East Texas, about an hour east of Dallas. And he got called to that area and said, james, you can track this area out in about two weeks. What did you do after that? He said, well, I just knock on the door and tell him, oh, I forgot to tell you something last time and stick my foot in the door and try to get. Guy's amazing as far as his determination. Yeah, but that's cool.
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B
Anyway, anything else from. Go ahead.
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D
Yeah, you got to tell him the story of.
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C
He just says the story because that's what it's kind of become.
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B
The legendary.
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C
I've told this story a handful of times to people, and, you know, it's really important to me. But I was out, and I was in the Athens area. I was actually in a small town called Gun Barrel City out there. And we were looking through our area book. We found a less active family there to go visit. And so we're. We go and we. We got invited in, and we're speaking with this less active family, and we're teaching them, and we asked them to go get their. Their Books of Mormon. And, you know, they had old copies that they had and. And whatnot. And as we're teaching them, you know, the spirit was strong. And, you know, the father, he asked me what my. What my name was, and I said, oh, it's. It's Elder Logan, you know, and I thought he had forgotten. It was the first time we'd been there, you know, but, you know, he said, no, no. What's your first name, Elder? And I said, well, you know, my first name is James, but, you know, people, they call me Butch. That's kind of my nickname growing up. And this guy, he just started to cry. And, you know, he opened up this Book of Mormon, and it had my testimony written in it from when I was a youth, when I was 12 years old, 13 years old.
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B
So cool.
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C
So, you know, for young Men's activity back in the day, they used to have us write our testimonies in these Books of Mormon, and then they'd ship them out to missions all over the world. And, you know, I lived in California at the time and had written my testimony in this book, and it had got shipped out to the Texas, Dallas Mission, apparently, and had made it to this man's home. And I ended up finding him and the book, which, like I said, the spirit testified to me that day that out of the one in a billion chances that that could be, that I was in the right place at the right time and the gospel is true. Yeah.
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B
Yeah, that's cool. That's cool.
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D
So that's a good segue into the fact that I believe. It's a fact that our Father in heaven has placed people in our path that are here to help us. But we have our agency, which is the most powerful doctrine out there. In fact, I'm going to do something with you, Kurt.
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B
All right?
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D
I'm going to do a little test. I'm going to say three words, and whatever comes into your head, just react. And the audience could do this at the same time, see if it works for them. Okay, ready?
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B
Black, white, up, down, cold, hot.
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D
So I said a word and you said what?
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B
The opposite.
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D
Why is that?
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B
I don't know. The contrast maybe is more apparent rather than cool or something. Or something a synonym.
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D
Well, I think the answer's in Revelations 12, 7 or the war in Heaven. What were we fighting for?
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B
Agency.
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D
Yeah. And whether we're members of the church or not, we know inherently that we have agency. So I do a lot of interviewing. I've hired over 500 people in my businesses, and I've interviewed a few thousand, you know, in my church callings and in business. And I spent. One of my favorite callings was when I got back from the Texas Dallas mission, was to go work at the employment center in Sugar House, and eventually for three more years at Welfare Square. On Mondays, we do a professional network group and interviewing. You're great at it. But most people, it's difficult, and it's maybe tougher to be the interviewer than the interviewee. But what I found is that people are always thinking how to protect themselves and how to react to the statement rather than really absorbing and listening. And that's just natural. That's the natural man instinct to protect, you know, to not absorb what someone's saying. But really, if we really listen and can reflect back what the other person said, don't we gain power with them rather than losing?
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B
Yeah, there's a connection. That happens, right?
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D
Yeah. So I love doing it. A friend of mine is a business professor up at the University of Utah. I go up there once a semester and teach class, and I pass out business. I put a stack of business cards out there, and, you know, it's interesting to offer my help to just brainstorm what they want to do in business or practice interviewing or, or their resume. I'll look at it. But it's interesting. The people that call are people that really want help and it's really fun to work with them. So when I was a single dot ward bishop and I had access, I found this. Well, in the first time I was In a bishopric 25 years earlier, we had four or five hundred members and two or three weddings a year. And the Brethren were thinking of shutting the mid singles wards down, single adult wards. But then 25 years later, I'm a bishop in one of these and I said, I'm going to do something different. So I found a dating coach and she's amazing. Kristen Sokel S O K E L she got written up in the Deseret News last summer and we made a deal with her where if people would use her services, you know, she might be able to help them because she. I heard her speak at a fireside and she said there's no client she'd ever had that was over 30 that didn't have something going on in their head that was blocking them from progressing and dating and getting married. So had some great experiences offering her services and it was just like the
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B
skill set they needed to.
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D
Oh, yeah, she took 10 sessions and you know, it takes three to six months. But she just was amazing. But the whole point, I bring that up because there was one sister that was really cute. But when I suggested she'd call her or would she, you know, I'd even participate in the cost, she was very offended and I couldn't. She wouldn't talk to me for a couple months. But a year later she came in and needed a recommend to get married. And I said, what happened? He says, well, you know, I saw that some of these people were starting to bring dates to church and some were getting married, and I thought maybe I could change my attitude a little bit. So she went online on herself, on her own and found a guy that she thought was perfect and got married.
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B
Wow.
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D
Just like that. Yeah, that's cool. But President Oaks, in his recent talk at byu, mentioned three things that we can do to help ourselves. And the third one, I'm not going to put you on the spot and ask what that was, please. But he said, there's people on the earth that we ought to seek out to help us. And we couldn't get through all the ones that have helped me in an hour. You know, why do we not ask for More help from people is kind of an interesting question.
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B
Yeah, for sure. Because you mentioned that business class. There's a portion that the call and probably the majority don't call, would you say, or.
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D
Yeah, the majority. You know, there's 40 students in a class. They just moved them to 150. They're TV classes. But yeah, it's the few that really want to help. It's just so fun and rewarding because another mentor I had was a guy named Jim Cox. He was a stake president up in the Northwest and has an interesting story. I won't tell you the whole thing, but he ended up moving down here and writing a book and putting on a class on becoming one with Jesus Christ. I went to this course. A neighbor of mine went to it who was kind of on the edge, and I was amazed he'd even go to something like that. But Jim and I clicked and I ended up hiring as my HR manager. He just changed my life. A couple things he taught me just to get to that. For example, when you go to church, are you going to thinking, boy, I hope Kurt and James can lift me up or I can hear something that will motivate me, lift me spiritually. And then if you don't hear those, are you disappointed? Or do you study your scriptures and build your spirituality during the week and then go to church looking for someone that needs that lift and then give it to them?
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B
Yeah, I mean, that's the hope, right?
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D
No, I mean, it's a different approach to going to church.
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B
Yeah.
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D
Another one. That was awesome. This one drives me crazy a little bit. But you know how in a gospel doctrine class or elders Quorum, there's always two or three people that just have to talk?
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B
Oh, really? I've never noticed.
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D
If you're teaching, how do you get them to give someone else a chance? So he said, if you can, tactfully, as the teacher say, the spirit's going to prompt many of you to say something that will edify the rest of us. But if we really want to edify everybody in the class, we need to sit there and ask ourselves that question. Is this comment that I'm just all of a sudden needing to get out just to make me feel better or edify me, or is it to edify everybody and then even say a little prayer and just see if you can get a confirmation that is this something that will really bless the lives of everyone? And, you know, that'll offend some people if they choose to be offended, but it can just change the whole way the class goes, if people kind of understand the ground rules.
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B
Yeah, yeah.
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D
But the reason I bring him up, too, is that if you're willing to let someone help you, both lives get blessed. I love Jim Cox. And he. His wife called me. She passed away last week, but she called me before she did and said, you know, I've been reading Jim's journals, and I just wanted you to know that he considered you one of his best friends.
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B
Wow.
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D
And I thought, wow, he's 20 years older than I am, and we had a lot. You know, I just learned so much from him. But I never thought of him thinking of me as a best friend, even though I love talking to him. But that's what happens when you let someone in your life and you let them help. You know, James is amazing because I got to tell you a story. Let's go to his business site.
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B
Yeah, yeah. And I'm curious. Is there.
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D
So let James kind of tell you what happened.
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B
So you come up from your mission and you know what?
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C
Yeah, so I was coming from the mission. I did the. The normal thing. I got married and.
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B
And to the girl that waited.
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C
Negative.
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B
Okay.
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C
No, I took that. Dear John at month 14.
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D
He did a lot better. He's amazing father with four kids. And. Yeah, the kids are amazing.
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C
Anyways, yeah, so it was. I got home and I got a job for a titanium manufacturing facility. And I was a young guy out there. And, yeah, and I started on the ground level and I started working my way up and got promoted and promoted. And by the time I started getting in contact with Bart, I was in year seven of being home, and I was actually running one of the four crews out there. I had 60 guys that worked for me, and, yeah, I was making titanium, but the heavy industry is some work out there that the language isn't always the best and the people around you don't always have the same belief systems as you do. And I was working a shift work schedule that required me to work on two Sundays every month and nights and weekends back and forth, and it just wasn't conducive to the lifestyle I really wanted to live. And I knew that I should be living, and my wife was a gem in that and really pushing me towards becoming a better man. And I had just become Elders Quorum president in the midst of all that. And so I just knew that there were changes that I needed to make in my life. And I reached out to Bart and just asked if he had any openings for things, and he told me, not yet, but I'll get with you.
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D
And he did.
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C
He got back with me and, well,
- [29:34]
D
let me take it from here, all right? He comes in my office one day and says, I need help. Which is kind of a classic, great start. I used to teach missionaries. You could get any in any door in Dallas if you ask one question, can you help me no matter what, how much the Baptists don't like us or, you know, and they say, well, sure, what? I just need a glass of water. It's 110 out here and they'll do it. Okay. We just have this inherent desire to help people, you know, it's the second commandment. We get blessed for doing it.
- [30:07]
B
Yeah.
- [30:08]
D
I said, what can I do, James? And he said, well, he told me that story that it's not helping his family life. And I said, well. And he said, I don't have a college degree and I just don't know where to go and what to do. And I said, well, I know your work ethic. I know you're honest guy, and I don't have any specific openings right now, but if you were willing to, if it was interesting to you, to learn how to sell heavy aluminum tanks, these 9,000 gallon tanks, and to do that you've got to take a course that takes six months. Normally it's a home study course, tmi, Truck Marketing Institute. And you've got to go out in the shop, put coveralls on and just learn about these tanks. So, oh yeah, I'll do that. So I gave him a book to go home and start studying. And I said, you know, but don't quit your day night job or whatever it is till you get really far along here. So a couple weeks later he shows up and says, okay, I'm ready to go. And I said, what do you mean you're ready to go? He said, well, I quit my job and I'm ready to go. I said, okay, you know, I can't pay you, tell you you're worth something. And so he put on some coveralls, went out in the shop and crammed through the thing. And I wish I had time to tell you all the great things he's done, but I was ready to sell this company because I didn't have the right leadership. And I was getting calls to sell it. There's a lot of private equity groups buying up. They bought up most of our competitors. But this guy, I could just see it. He had, you know, the new BYU Hawaii president interviewed recently on all in. And he said he asked the Faculty to come up with three words that describe the 3,000 students there. Most of them are there to become great leaders and go back and help in their island communities. And the three adjectives that describe those students are grateful, humble, and determined. That's what he is. I knew those. When I'm hiring somebody, I'm not looking necessarily for all their experience, I'm looking. They have the character and the determination to be successful because those are the people that help companies and make them great. Long story short, he went from being the top salesman to the general manager, and now I've sold the company on an ESOP employee, Stockholm company over three years ago, and I'm kind of a mascot president for another year, and then they'll be flying on their own. But that company is. They dominate the market in what they do. And the customers love him and the employees love him.
- [32:37]
B
That's cool.
- [32:38]
D
And it's just a great example of. Yet he respectfully disagrees on some things. But, I mean, I remember he'll send me a text once in a while out of the blue, just saying, hey, thanks for the opportunity. And, you know, most people don't do that after they get what they want. And it's just been fun to work with him.
- [32:56]
B
Anything you'd add to that narrative?
- [32:58]
C
No, I think that's. It's all exactly how it went. I think, you know, when I was deciding whether or not to quit my job, at that point, I knew that I had to be all in or whatnot. And Bart, he should be called the Amazon man, because Bart gives books to everybody.
- [33:14]
B
Yes, he does. I've gotten several Bart books.
- [33:16]
C
You don't leave an interaction with Bart without receiving a book. And so I think that that's one of the things that led me to quit my job was just reading one of these books. It was talking about being all in. But that was also a spiritual experience. I feel like God's always guided me throughout my life. Me and my wife decided to go to the temple about changing a career path because I was making good money at my last job, and it was a good job, and I was going to be transitioning to something that, you know, was. Was uncertain and, and, and new. And after leaving the temple, we were just sitting there talking about, well, how did you feel? How did I feel? And we pulled up and got stopped at a red light. And in front of us, truck in front of us had Utah tank and trailer mud flaps on it. And I remember just saying, seeing the mud flaps and saying, all right, God, we got You. So that was it for me. But I know Bart doesn't that company. When I got there, it was something that Bart had managed for a long time, but had left when he'd done his mission. And it was kind of a side project. And so it had a different management team over there, and they needed some adjustments, and Bart knew what those were, and the current staff didn't really want to get on board with that. And so when I came, I didn't know a lot about the industry either. I just knew I needed to work my tail off and that Bart knew more than me. And so I had kind of seen how successful he had been in his previous business with Freightliner. And I just said, you know, if he could do that there, then what could he do with this place? And he just needs someone to be his first follower. There's a business training on YouTube. You'll have to check it out. It's got these people at this festival, and it's got this crazy guy, and he runs out there, and he just starts dancing all funny. And they got this funny music going, and he's dancing, and he's just dancing by himself. And then one person runs out next to him and starts dancing crazy, too. And then another person and another person. Before you know it, everyone's going dancing funny. But he was just dancing so ridiculous at the beginning until he had those first followers. So for me, I was trying to be Bart's first follower to get there, and now I think we got that whole. That whole movement going.
- [35:29]
D
Yeah.
- [35:30]
B
But I'm curious with. You know, there's sometimes that pressure of. Of the. With so many missionaries, you want to be a mentor to all of them, and I'm sure you'll take their phone call and things like that is what's the. The variety of experiences you've had as others maybe sought out for your mentorship or maybe not received it as well, or what comes to mind?
- [35:51]
D
Well, I didn't necessarily go out and just offer to help everybody start a business.
- [35:55]
B
Right. Right.
- [35:56]
D
Several of them came to me, and not every experience was positive. And I'll take the blame for maybe making it too easy to have the funding, which if you don't have funding, you know how hard that is.
- [36:09]
B
Yeah.
- [36:10]
D
Or maybe we didn't know the metrics in the business, but, you know, I learned a lot, and hopefully they did, too. We've had some success stories and some that weren't so successful, but again, what are we taking with us when we leave this life? The relationships and what we've learned.
- [36:26]
B
Right.
- [36:27]
D
So I've definitely swung the bat pretty hard on things I've done and I've struck out, you know, plenty of times. But when you hit a home run, it's pretty fun.
- [36:37]
B
Yeah.
- [36:38]
D
And the home run isn't the money, it's the relationship and being successful with a team because it is never one person. It's the people you build and the, the unity you can build within the organization.
- [36:50]
B
Yeah. And so I'm curious currently, what does the mentorship relationship look like now? I mean is, you know, you're working together, I'm sure you're having meetings, asking questions. Anything else come to mind?
- [37:00]
C
Yeah, I think it's evolved over the years. I think originally Bart was, was a lot more hands on with me and I needed it a lot more. Not that I don't now, but my favorite thing that he used to do for me, honestly, that I used to learn so much from, was Bart would always take his calls on speakerphone. And so I'd go into his office and he would just take calls and I just listened to the way he had interactions with people and he talked to people and you know, we would go out with, to customers. And I remember golfing with Bart with a customer and Bart kind of leaning over to me and telling me, hey, don't do this. Or just little things that, you know, I never took as criticisms. I always took as him trying to help me all the way down to. I used to have these shaky knees. If he hadn't talked to me, you'd probably see me on camera just shaking my knees right now. But that's like I said, I was just always open to him telling me and teaching me things and then the many books, that's for sure, the many books that he would give me. And he realized that I don't really love to read books, but I can listen to books. He'll tell me, hey, download this one, this is a good one. Download that one.
- [38:06]
B
Any that stand out over the years that have blessed your life more than
- [38:09]
C
others, you know, how to win friends and influence people or the speed of trust. I think the speed of trust is one that I actually made our management team read through and that really took our business to new levels over a couple years ago. We did that two years ago and it was a game changer for us for sure to change things in the business.
- [38:31]
D
Getting these guys, these mechanics and tank people to sit down once a week and pre study a chapter and have a summary to teach the rest of people. He got him to do that.
- [38:41]
B
I. That's cool.
- [38:42]
D
Haven't been successful in doing that in all my businesses. But as he's talking and as I think of mentors, I got to talk about Grandma Grizz. That's my wife of 48, almost 49 years.
- [38:55]
C
Cool.
- [38:56]
D
She's taught me so much. I remember teaching an elders quorum class in the single adult ward, and I made the comment that Elder what I learned from Elder Maxwell, he said, we can progress faster if we're married than if we're not because we got this little help. He didn't say little helper, but I call her. There's lots of funny videos on the little helper driver. She's one of those. She reminded me yesterday she saved my life for a wreck or a wrong turn several times. But she's amazing. One of the things she's taught me is that because of this reaction we have, if I'm giving you feedback or critique, you're on the fence. If you're in an interview, you're thinking how you're going to react. But if you write a note, a handwritten note, or an email, people can read that when they're ready to, and they don't have to worry about reacting or missing some counterpoint. And notes are amazing. And her relationship with. With her, our 13 grandkids, and just people in general, she's been in 13 presidencies. She's turning 70 in a month. And still the young women just love her because she's so good with people. But she listens, she cares, you know, and I. You know, she's a lot of things I'm not. So. And after that elders quorum lesson, I got an email from one of the single elders who was 44, and he said, you know, where doctrinally can you prove that that's correct, that we progress faster? Because he didn't want to get married? And I said, well, you know, an apostle taught that principle, and I'm an example of that principle. I would be half the man I am now if I didn't have my wife helping me. So, you know, it's just we have all these resources out there available, but how many do we use? And books are kind of like a big note. You can pick the author you want, if it's business or secular or we got scriptures. I mean, these prophets, you know, Mormon saw our day and knew what we were going through, and he did his best in these 15 prophets. Put in that book, what would help us today? But when I read it saying, what are they trying to teach me that I can learn. It's a very different read than if I'm just reading my two chapters a night or whatever. And we can consciously pick what we want to read. So, you know. And again. 2 Nephi 32, 3 Elder Maxwell, when I went to a family home meeting with him one time, he asked us to bring our greatest spiritual thought for the week. And I thought I had a knockout question for him. He just referred me to 2 Nephi 32. 3 and all the answers are in the scriptures, but they're also in our patriarchal blessing and our, you know, bishops. I just had an amazing experience as a bishop and mission president. I had a great mentor. Tell me if you're in either of those callings, you're going to do a lot of interviews. Always start the interview out with having them give a prayer and you'll get a feeling for where their spirit and their heart's at. And then at the end, always give them the choice of whether they want you to close with, do you want me to close with a prayer? Or would you like a priesthood blessing? And then zip it. And 90% of the time they wanted a blessing. Even the guys, they'd say, oh yeah, I haven't had a blessing for a while. Most of the sisters, oh yeah, I'd love a blessing. Will you give me a blessing? But, you know, I just had this amazing experience over a thousand times of putting my hands on people's heads. And, you know, it sounds trite, but I can't think of a blessing where I just didn't get this amazing impression to let them know how much their Father in heaven loved them and valued them. And you can say the words, but the feeling comes through. And boy, we can learn so much from the Spirit. We can learn. There's just so many resources out there, but we have to choose to put the paddles in the water and not just drift to get access to them.
- [42:58]
B
Yeah, I appreciate that. Just the concept of reading or sharing books or like, as an individual you're striving to improve and read and become more knowledgeable, then to share that with somebody you're mentoring, and then that creates a place where you can discuss something which leads to more principles, more learning and flourishes relationships.
- [43:17]
D
If you just tell them what's in the book or you tell them the principle, they're probably going to react hot, cold. Okay, but if you say, read this book, tell me what, if there's anything in there that strikes you, then they get excited about something. They choose to and then you can have a very different conversation with them.
- [43:34]
B
Yeah.
- [43:34]
C
And I think Bart's. One of the best things that Bart's done as far as mentoring me is giving me agency. Right. Bart's huge on agency and allowing you to have that freedom and not being quick to. He calls them the three C's. But criticize, condemn or complain. Complain.
- [43:53]
D
Yeah.
- [43:54]
C
About whatever outcome comes, you know. And I ended up having a pretty humbling experience a couple of years back and I made a mistake, pretty big mistake in the sales department. And we purchased a lot of assets that because of COVID ended up devaluing very quickly. And as they devalued, we were left with something that just wasn't worth a whole lot, obviously. And we needed to, needed to sell those. And as we were selling those, every time I sold this, and just for context it was said it was, it was pretty rough, but we were probably losing about $40,000 per unit that we were selling here as we were selling these things. And that's a lot of money to me. So it's, and it's scary because you know, this company, we were taught to treat the company as it's our own and it's our baby. And, and so every time I'd sell a trailer, I was grateful that one of them was leaving, but I was also taking a knife in the chest every time it happened. And I remember being at the end of the year meeting there to go over the financials with Bart and I didn't want to go. I felt like a beat down dog and I wanted to cry. Never really feel like that a whole lot, but I did in that moment. And you know, and Bart could have reacted and been. Reacted poorly but you know, he took it as a learning experience for me and he helped me through the situation the best he could and with his contacts and different things. And like I said, he was never on those three Cs and instead just pushing me to do the best decision that we could at the time. You know, it was a very expensive lesson, but it's a lesson that I will never forget.
- [45:36]
D
It's a lesson that most of us have in businesses. Some point we're going to make some mistakes. And in this case, I don't call it a mistake he made it just we, it wasn't his fault. Covid hit and the whole industry got punished during that time. But I said, James, this is just part of your education and we just paid some more tuition and this will probably save you a lot more than you ever lost. In the future because you will now be more cautious and at least study it out and you know, not just be quick to make decisions because you know how hard they are to recover from in some cases.
- [46:11]
C
Yeah.
- [46:11]
B
Fascinating. Any other as we begin to wrap up any point principle concept about mentorship that we haven't hit on yet?
- [46:19]
D
Well, again, there's so much wisdom in the scriptures or even the book he talks about. Dale Carnegie, he spent most of his life studying the most successful people he could find. And he put 40 principles together and interestingly, he ranked them. And number one was don't criticize, condemn or complain. How many of us can go 24 hours without doing that? But when I'm reading books or listening to mentors, I try to not just say, okay, I'm going to agree with everything I read or hear. But we know that in all the standard works, Deuteronomy, Matthew, Doctrine and Covenants, in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. Right?
- [47:00]
B
Yeah.
- [47:01]
D
So is that principle of don't criticize, condemn or complain in the scriptures? Well, you don't have to get out of First Nephi to get two or three examples First Nephi 3, 7 we all know is I will go and do. But the great scripture before that is Lehi explains to Nephi why he's so incredible because he doesn't complain. So is the Spirit going to hang around us if we're complaining? Probably not. So then in chapters 15 and 16, he breaks his bow. And what does his brothers and sisters and in laws, even the parents do.
- [47:38]
B
Yeah, they complain.
- [47:38]
D
They mourn, they complain. What does he do? Hey, what's this Urim and Thummim thing? You know, I makes a bow, let's see if this thing can hunt. And he goes out and makes it happen. So again, as we listen to AI, you know, it's a compilation of how many thousands or millions of opinions we've got. The Holy Ghost. And one of the things I'm so grateful for in callings is I was thinking of this the other day in doing over a thousand temple recommend interviews, there's one question that is amazing and it's so powerful. It's number four. And I cannot think of even 25 years ago when I was, you know, asking those questions, when I asked that question, the Spirit hit me so strongly I could hardly say the words. Do you sustain the president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as the prophet? See, Revelator is the only person authorized to exercise all priesthood keys. I know he's a prophet. And I know how to recognize the Holy Ghost speaking to me because he's spoken to me so many times. And I'm so grateful that we have the gospel in our lives, that we can know how to spend our time, what to do. And the greatest rewards are serving other people and the greatest relationships you can have, whether it's serving your wife or your kids or other people. That's where it's at.
- [49:05]
B
Yeah.
- [49:07]
D
And before we wrap up, I got to say this because, man, I've listened to, you know, ever since you met James, and he started talking about getting on this podcast. I. I'm a low profile guy and I just said no for a couple years. But I've gained so much in my callings from listening. I've listened almost Saturday morning when I'm working out, I listen to your podcast.
- [49:29]
B
Oh, nice.
- [49:30]
D
And there's so many things I've learned. I mean, that bishop, who was the highest baptizing bishop in the world.
- [49:35]
B
Bishop Pope. Yeah.
- [49:37]
E
Yeah.
- [49:37]
D
And the Orlando temple president talked about what makes great missionaries going to the temple and even the music leaders, you know, having the family sing a song in that language. Just some great ideas. Yeah. And if everybody listened to your podcast, they gained so much. And I'm sure you've got a great following. But one thing I learned when we went to lunch is this thing doesn't happen for free. This is a nice.
- [49:59]
B
Yeah. Believe it or not.
- [50:00]
D
And you're amazing, but you need some help with keeping this thing alive. So I'd never joined or sent a dime in, but I decided it's time to write a check with several zeros, and I'm hoping that your listeners will do the same. Well, thank you, because this won't continue without some help.
- [50:18]
B
Well, thank you.
- [50:19]
D
And whether you subscribe monthly or just write it, you know, nothing that's worth anything is free. And if you're taking it for free, then sign up and send some money.
- [50:31]
B
Yeah. It'd mean a lot. It'd mean a lot for sure.
- [50:33]
D
And I appreciate what you do here, and I hope it keeps going.
- [50:36]
B
Last question. One of the final questions I have is just what would you say to anybody who wants to be a better mentor and stimulate those kind of relationships? I think sometimes it's natural to kind of wait till they. They come to us. Right. That somebody finally calls or reaches out. But if you want to have that life of a mentorship, any advice or encouragement that. That either of you would give, well,
- [50:58]
D
it's kind of like you got to put the business cards out there make the offer, let you know people know you're available. But if you push yourself on someone, they won't want to talk to you. References are powerful. I talk a lot about that with, you know, people wanting jobs and I, I get people calling me all the time just, you know, can you help me with getting a job? I've got a couple people in the ward right now and helping their kids. How much would you appreciate someone helping your kids? You know, I mean, it just builds that relationship and it's fun. But really the challenge is finding people that want help. So I think, I would say the challenge for all of us is to really think about and look around at what resources we have available because there's a lot of people that want to help. You just got to let them know that you're willing to listen. And just because you listen doesn't mean you have to do it. Even parents, if you moved out of the house, I used to tell the single adults, you know, if you want to scare your parents to death, go home and tell them. You know, it's been a while since I've really sat down and listened to your advice. You probably see some things that you think I could do better, whatever, and I'm willing to listen. It's just with the caveat doesn't. I don't want you offended if I don't do anything you tell me, but I don't want you broke, burdened with thinking that we can't communicate. So if I hear it and don't do it, at least it's off your shoulders and I own it. But it's a two way deal and what an adventure it is when it's done right. Yeah.
- [52:26]
B
James, any encouragement for people want to be mentors?
- [52:29]
C
Well, I'm not to a mentor state, I think, but I don't think. I mean, I know I never went to BART formally and said, hey, will you be my mentor? That's not really how our relationship worked. But I did understand that they say that you act like the five people that are closest around you. And where I was at wasn't a good situation. And I wanted to be around someone that was the caliber of person that I wanted to be and that was Bart. So his example and his successes or whatnot led me to want to be like that. And then if you were, everybody should want help. Right. And so I would just encourage people to seek out those type of people in your lives that can help you magnify yourself. And then once you start going Like I said, our relationships changed over the years to where I'm not sitting in his office listening to his phone calls near as much. But, you know, I still wander up to his office and I'll tell him, hey, I need you. Like you're not done yet. Even though Bart's getting ready at some point one day to hang up the gloves here, but I still need him and I still ask him for questions, and I want to know what. What he has because, you know, I. I admire him. I look up to him. He's a friend, he's confidant, father figure, all of those things. And, you know, I'm. My life wouldn't be the same without. Without Bart, and. And I'm very grateful for. For him, you know, and yeah, I just like said, I tell people to go out and. And to seek those opportunities, those people that can help you get better.
- [53:55]
B
Love it. Last question I have. I'll start with you, James, when we come to Bart. As you reflect on your time as a leader, how has being a leader helped you become a better follower of Jesus Christ?
- [54:05]
C
Oh, you know, I think that my time as a leader, you know, I kind of felt like I was born to lead almost. I've led everything from Boy Scouts to young men's to elders quorums, to when I was missionary, I was in charge of, you know, zone leaders and all these different things. And I think that all those things were put on me line upon line, you know, And I think that God has prepared me throughout my life to lead. But as I've grown older, I've come to find out that leading is just responsibility to act as our Savior would want us to act. And, you know, if he were here, he would lead. And so it's my responsibility, even though I don't wear the name tag anymore, to represent our Savior. And that as I try to follow him, that in a way it's leading. But like I said, we're all just trying to be more like him.
- [55:01]
D
Cool.
- [55:02]
B
Bart, what about you? How's being a leader helped you become a better follower of Jesus Christ?
- [55:06]
D
Well, I've talked about a couple of ways just by feeling the spirit. But I'd say the people I've been able to associate with in leadership callings are just totally impacted life. I mean, whether it's counselors in a mission presidency, Brad Oates and former stake presidents, or the counselors in this last bishopric were just amazing. Jill Dahl and Trent Thatcher, I mean, when we sit down, kneel down to start a bishopric meeting, you know, 6:30 in the morning. I don't know if I've ever felt the spirit stronger than in those meetings. And the qualities they had, the way they complemented all my weaknesses, the things I've learned from them and the people that I've been able to serve with. The 400 missionaries, I've loved them and learned so much from each one. And a single adult ward. They're such an amazing group of people. We'd have a half hour tithing settlement and I'd challenge them to come with something they want to do to improve their life. And it was so humbling just to see how they were trying and what the good things they were doing or just the people in this church. There's amazing people in the world and I get to work with a lot that aren't members in the businesses I have. But there's something about being in the service of your Father in heaven that amplifies and edifies. And those relationships are eternal and I wouldn't trade them for anything.
- [56:41]
A
The end. That's it for this Leading Saints episode. I encourage you to check out some of the most popular episodes of the podcast that we list at the bottom of the show. Notes. If you haven't listened to all of those, do so now.
- [57:02]
E
It came as a result of the position of leadership which was imposed upon us by the God of Heaven who brought forth a restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ. When the declaration was made concerning the only true and living church upon the face of the earth, we were immediately put in a position of loneliness. The loneliness of leadership from which we cannot shrink nor run away, and to which we must face up with boldness and courage and ability.