Building a Legacy with Cree Summer

Summary

Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe: "Building a Legacy with Cree Summer"

Podcast: Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe
Host: Lena Waithe (Hillman Grad & Lemonada Media)
Guest: Cree Summer
Date: September 16, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of "Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe" is an in-depth, heartfelt exploration of Cree Summer’s rich career and her profound impact on Black storytelling—both in live-action and animation. Waithe guides a conversation that unveils pivotal moments, career crossroads, friendships, and the cultural significance behind many of Cree’s beloved roles. Together, they celebrate legacy, uplift artists who shift narratives, and underline the importance of community among Black creators in Hollywood.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. How Cree Summer Began: "Pure Nepotism" and Inspector Gadget

• Cree candidly shares that her entrance into entertainment was through her father Don Franks, a Canadian voiceover legend ([03:04]).
  • Quote: “My career started with pure nepotism…My father was a huge voiceover man in Canada…He said, ‘why don't you give Cree a read?’” – Cree Summer [03:04]
• She describes her youthful excitement at 11, auditioning for the role of Penny on Inspector Gadget and mistakenly thanking producers before she’d been cast ([03:57]).
  • “Thank you. I can't wait to start this job.” – Cree Summer [03:58]
• Cree reflects on those early days, motivated mainly by dreams of having her own bike, little realizing she was making history ([04:20], [04:37]).

2. A Different World: Audition Ordeal and Show Impact

• Lena and Cree dive into the audition gauntlet for A Different World ([05:29]–[09:50]).
  • Eleven auditions, including a nerve-wracking experience where Cree hosted a direct competitor in her own apartment.
• A moving depiction of the makeshift, familial support system—specifically, the instant bond with Jasmine Guy, who became an on-set (and lifelong) sister ([10:12]–[11:19]).
  • “It was an instant love affair with Jasmine Guy, who took one look at me and decided we were gonna be sisters.” – Cree Summer [10:27]
• The instability of Black actors’ positions at the time and the unique dynamic created on set.
  • “We got three episodes, and if we were good, we could get another three. Do you know how fucking stressful that is?” – Cree Summer [00:02], [10:14]
• Jasmine Guy’s mentorship in both craft and presence:
  • “Madam, what are you looking for?…That's what it looks like.” – Jasmine Guy via Cree Summer [11:19]

3. Pushing Boundaries: Challenging Episodes of A Different World

• Discussion of pivotal, emotionally demanding episodes (“Mammy Dearest,” date rape episode) and the cultural weight they carried ([18:10]–[22:12]).
  • “Did you see what I had to do? I was in full black face, right?…I was very uncomfortable. And also I was young, don't forget. So I didn't know that it was important to do, you know, when you just don't know.” – Cree Summer [18:23], [21:15]
• The evolution from discomfort to retrospective pride and recognition.
  • “We had to mature into loving that episode. We didn't even know what we were doing, how prolific and how important that was.” – Cree Summer [21:59]
• The genuine familial love and sense of Black cultural Camelot experienced on set ([12:32]).
  • “It really was for this black Camelot.” – Lena Waithe [12:32]

4. Life After A Different World: Harsh Realities and Lifelines

• Cree shares the immediate downturn after the show ended—being unable to find an agent or work until writer Gina Prince-Bythewood gave her a lifeline ([16:39]–[17:14]).
  • “I couldn't get an agent. There were no auditions. And then you want to know who saved me? Gina Prince.” – Cree Summer [16:39]
• The myth of instant career ascent post-hit TV (“the world wasn't waiting for us like that, and you saw how that show ended, with a whimper, not a bang”) ([16:14]).

5. Trailblazing in Animation: Rugrats, Proud Family, and Atlantis

• Rugrats: The excitement and pride of voicing Susie Carmichael—finally a little Black girl on TV who felt authentic ([26:28]–[27:43]).
  • “Susie Carmichael. What the fucking best. She looked like us. Finally.” – Cree Summer [26:28]
• Proud Family and the joy of playfulness in the booth, the significance of diverse Black representation ([38:16]–[39:39]).
• Atlantis: Voicing Princess Kida—Disney’s first Black princess—and the bittersweet pride in a film that wasn't initially celebrated ([34:55]–[36:36]).
  • “My character, Princess Kida, is the first black Disney princess. They don't give me no love for that shit. Let's talk about it!” – Cree Summer [35:05]
  • On the process: inventing a language and accent, and her reverence for genre fans:
    • “These nerds don't fuck around. So it was a full bible for the language.” – Cree Summer [37:43]

6. Legacy Sitcoms: Living Single, Fresh Prince, and More

• Living Single: Delighting in Yvette Lee Bowser’s success, the interconnectedness of Black television writers and actors. Cree notes how guest-starring is like “sleeping on somebody’s couch” ([32:56]).
• Fresh Prince: On being part of the “Beauty of the Week” parade and working with Will Smith ([33:14]–[34:48]).
  • “I had to straddle him and kiss his neck…I've really been lucky.” – Cree Summer [33:39], [34:08]

7. Atlanta and New Black TV: Artistic Innovation and Continuity

• Guest-starring on Atlanta felt like a full circle moment. Cree and Donald Glover turn a real phone conversation into a scene ([40:34]).
  • “That scene in Atlanta is a phone conversation Donald and I had…Next thing I knew, it was in classic.” – Cree Summer [40:34]
• Power in seeing Black multidimensionality onscreen:
  • “That's what I loved about Atlanta…we've been so hindered by caricature and lack of opportunity, which doesn't get us to see all the dimensions that we are.” – Cree Summer [41:54]

8. Better Things: Rescued by Friendship, Embracing Insecurities

• The raw vulnerability of returning to on-camera work after years in voiceover, post-breakup and battling self-image ([43:23]–[45:22]).
  • “I was deep in heartbreak…I didn't feel like I could get out of bed, let alone come audition for something.” – Cree Summer [44:01]
  • Pam Adlon’s insistence, and the improvisational joy on set.
• Transitioning from actor to staff writer, learning to appreciate her abilities, and the lesson that her value isn’t tied to physical appearance—a gift for herself and her daughters ([47:56]–[49:50]):
  • “I learned I can do it…that my acting doesn't have anything to do with what I look like.” – Cree Summer [48:01]
  • “For someone to give me the opportunity to be a staff writer on one of the 10 biggest shows in America, says Time magazine, Right? And now I'm in a writer's room. Are you fucking kidding me?” – Cree Summer [47:26]

9. Presence, Vulnerability, and Defining a Great Actress

• The recurring theme of presence—Jasmine Guy’s teaching, career movitation, the importance of being present as an actress ([11:19], [50:41]).
  • “A great actress is someone who stays in that character, is in the body of that character and is present. It's like what Jasmine said to me. 'What you looking for in that drawer, Miss Thing.' A great actress knows what the fuck she's looking for.” – Cree Summer [50:41]
• Cree’s influence as a beloved, authentic presence who inspires both peers and viewers; Lena Waithe's gratitude and emotional close ([52:47]–end).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Early Career:
  • “My career started with pure nepotism.” – Cree Summer [03:04]
• On Sisterhood:
  • “Jasmine Guy…decided we were gonna be sisters. And she took care of me. She coached me...That's sisterhood. That's love.” – Cree Summer [10:27], [12:17]
• On Anxiety and Instability in Black TV:
  • “Do you know how fucking stressful that is? …If we were good, we could get another three.” – Cree Summer [00:02], [10:14]
• On Breaking Ground – Mammy Dearest:
  • “We had to mature into loving that episode. We didn't even know what we were doing, how prolific and how important that was.” – Cree Summer [21:59]
• On Atlanta & Black Creativity:
  • “That's what I loved about Atlanta…That's what we gotta keep doing.” – Cree Summer [41:54]
• On Being Present:
  • “A great actress is someone who stays in that character, is in the body of that character and is present.” – Cree Summer [50:41]
• On the Support of Friends:
  • “My friends have saved me. My friends are the reason I still have a career. And Jupiter saved me.” – Cree Summer [47:35]

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Structural Timeline: Important Segments

• [03:04] – Early start via Inspector Gadget and nepotism
• [05:29] – Grueling audition process for A Different World
• [10:14] – On-set anxieties, mentorship, sisterhood
• [18:10] – Emotional weight of “Mammy Dearest” and key episodes
• [16:39] – Post-show struggle and being rescued by Gina Prince-Bythewood
• [26:28] – The significance of voicing Susie Carmichael in Rugrats
• [34:55] – Princess Kida and Atlantis: Disney’s Black princess
• [40:34] – Atlanta: Full circle, Black creative continuity
• [43:23] – Better Things: Reentry into acting, staff writing, empowerment
• [50:41] – Cree’s definition of a great actress, closing reflections

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Closing Reflection

This episode is an inspiring testament to the enduring bonds between Black artists and the power of community, vulnerability, and authenticity in building a legacy. Cree Summer’s honesty, humor, and generosity of spirit mirror the very essence of the Black storytelling community Lena Waithe seeks to honor. Whether recounting the chaos of auditions, the support of colleagues, or the lessons discovered through challenges, Cree emerges as both a beloved icon and an invaluable mentor for future generations.

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For listeners who missed this episode, "Building a Legacy with Cree Summer" is a masterclass in craft, courage, and the friendships that bolster Black storytellers.

Transcript

[Cree Summer]

Lemonade. Here's your contract. Welcome to the show. We got three episodes and if we were good, we could get another three. Do you know how fucking stressful that is?

[Lena Waithe]

Legacy, oh, Legacy.

[Cree Summer]

My friends have saved me. My friends are the reason I still have a career. The father of my children had just split and now I'm a single mother and I'm scared shitless. It made me a better actor. Not about what you look like, which I didn't even know was a hang up of mine, but we had to mature into loving that episode. No, no, this is the funny part. I called him and then we were getting off the phone and I said, I'm so glad you called me. And he says, you called me.

[Lena Waithe]

Legacy.

[Cree Summer]

Oh, Legacy.

[Lena Waithe]

She's not gonna start crying. He didn't say anything.

[Cree Summer]

I'm not gonna start crying.

[Lena Waithe]

You're gonna get emotional.

[Cree Summer]

I'm just gonna smile really hard.

[Lena Waithe]

Gosh, thank you for doing this.

[Cree Summer]

I would hang out with you on purpose any fucking day of the week.

[Lena Waithe]

You're the best. You're light. You're such a light. You know, I think in sitting down with people like yourself that have had such a huge impact on me. Look at you. Sorry, sorry. It's just sort of. It feeds me in such a unique way. And I'm really grateful to people like yourself, Debbie Allen, Jada Pinkett, that have sat in that chair. It's sort of so affirming, but also circular. And so I just appreciate you being a part of the circle and allowing me to be a part of your orbit. Yeah. So I'm excited to have this conversation.

[Cree Summer]

And thank you for shining such a light on us. You know, you've been very, very generous to all of us and just keeping us seen. It's greatly appreciated.

[Lena Waithe]

Well, we're gonna start at the beginning of your career for me.

[Cree Summer]

Whip it out.

[Lena Waithe]

Okay. For me.

[Cree Summer]

Okay.

[Lena Waithe]

And actually, I thought I knew where I was gonna start this conversation. I thought I did.

[Cree Summer]

Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

But then just sort of doing my research and also my amazing team doing the research, I realized that I heard you before I saw you.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

And that was actually why I wanted to begin with Inspector Gadget.

[Cree Summer]

Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

I watched that first episode again. You know, literally last night I was watching it. And I remember being a kid watching it and just being enthralled and happy and pleased and watching it now as a 40 year old, knowing I'm gonna sit with you. I just. It was so interesting to look at this white little girl with the blonde pigtails and the blue eyes. And now Being aware that a black woman voice of this character. So how did Penny come into your life?

[Cree Summer]

Well, my father. I'm a. My career started with pure nepotism.

[Lena Waithe]

You're an EPO baby.

[Cree Summer]

I'm a nepo baby. My father was a huge. My father, Don Franks, was a huge voiceover man in Canada, and I attended very little school, and he used to take me to almost all of his jobs, and I would sleep on the floor. I was always in the booth with him. And he was auditioning for Inspector Gadget, and I was just with him, and he said, why don't you give Cree a read? And it was the first time I was gonna audition for something, and I was so exc. And I just felt like, it's my time, it's my chance. And I went to the. I remember I was. I think I was 11. I went to the bathroom, and I said, okay, let's go. And I went in there, and after I did the job, after I did the audition, they applauded, and I thanked them for giving me the job. I didn't have the job.

[Lena Waithe]

Thanks, guys.

[Cree Summer]

I said, thank you. I can't wait to start this job.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow.

[Cree Summer]

And I got that job.

[Lena Waithe]

How many years did you do it?

[Cree Summer]

I did Inspector Gadget, I think, for three years. Three or four years.

[Lena Waithe]

How was that for you? Going in every week? Just getting these episodes. Were you thinking about character or were you just having a good time?

[Cree Summer]

I was actually thinking about getting a bike, my own bike. And I knew that if I kept working, I could buy bikes, you know, My father was an antique car collector. He had a Model T Ford race team, and he also collected vintage Harley Davidsons. And I couldn't wait to have my own machines. That's what it was about.

[Lena Waithe]

Of course, you grow up to be best friends with Lenny Kravitz.

[Cree Summer]

Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

Okay, that makes sense. That's so crazy. Well, it was such a lovely, nostalgic thing to go back and watch that cartoon and to see it and to see no Voice. Oh, my gosh. And realizing, oh, this is actually where it began.

[Cree Summer]

That was the first one. Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow. Well, I'm grateful for that. Now we're gonna get to a show that changed my life and changed the lives of so many of us. It's, you know, to me, it's a pillar of television, and it's, I think, one of the greatest television shows of all time. We. We arrive very quickly at a different world.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

Tell me, what was that audition process like for you?

[Cree Summer]

It was crazy. I mean, I had only been in LA six months, of course. Right. I moved here. I was 16. And then maybe three days later, after I moved here, I turned 17. But I had already worked for a lot of American animated film houses, so I already was known by Cartoon Network in different places. So I was able to start working in animation pretty fast. You have to remember, at that time, animation was kind of frowned upon. They treated it like I was going to work at the Gap. Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow.

[Cree Summer]

There was really no respect for that craft. But anyway, I got a call and it was a huge casting call because Lisa, who's now Lilikoi, had left the show. And everybody knew she had left the show. So it was like a nationwide thing. I mean, that audition was just packed. And I remember just waiting in a room with so many people. And it was the first time I had driven onto a really big lot in Hollywood. And I remember feeling like, this is like everything I ever imagined it would be like in Hollywood. Cause all my life I was gonna leave Canada and move to Hollywood. And there I was, finally. And I remember just so fucking scared. Oh, my God. And the worst part was I could hear all the girls auditioning. And I remember just going, God, this is really nerve wracking. And I did the first audition. I did. Okay. And we never auditioned with a different role script, by the way.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow.

[Cree Summer]

May I add that it was always some weird, obscure script.

[Lena Waithe]

Interesting.

[Cree Summer]

And so you never knew what your character was supposed to be or who you were supposed to be. And it kept changing, you know. And so I think I was on the last audition was before network was probably like, audition number 11.

[Lena Waithe]

Whoa.

[Cree Summer]

I mean, they really put us through it. And I remember I took it home. This is really crazy now that I think about it. So we're now whittling down the amount of girls auditioning. So there was probably. I know Charnell Brown was in the mix. I had my own little shitty apartment in Hollywood right above Sunset with a futon and a plant and a boombox. Living, living, baby. And I remember Debbie came to me. One of the girls that was auditioning was from England and was a dancer that Debbie had worked with. And I could tell behind the scenes, she was really pushing for this chick. And Debbie said, well, you have an apartment. Is it okay if she stays with you? Girl, could you fucking imagine your competition.

[Lena Waithe]

Miss Debbie Allen.

[Cree Summer]

Miss Debbie Allen, ladies and gentlemen. I mean, I would have done anything, you know, same. Next thing I know, this chick is in my apartment. So now I'm in one room. She's in another room, and we're both preparing for the audition of our lives.

[Lena Waithe]

Jesus.

[Cree Summer]

Meanwhile, I'm, you know, just trying to keep it together for the love of God. So I go and I had a script from A Raisin in the sun, which, as you know, is not hilarious. No, right. So I remember sitting there thinking, how do I make this shit funny? And then we go back and I hear all the girls going in, and there's no laughter, nothing. And I said, I gotta fucking do something, man. Cause it's dead in there. So the character was waiting to go to the bathroom and was knocking on the door. Hurry up. So I did this whole, like, pee dance, like two minutes of, like, jumping around and acting like a fool. And they started cracking up. The louder they laughed, the more absurd I became. And then I did the read and I walked out of there and I thought, this is my fucking gig. And then I had to go to network, and I saw Kadeem. I was reading with Dawn Lewis, and Charlie was reading with Kadeem. And I remember he walked by and I thought, damn, he isn't that cute on tv. I thought, holy shit. And I wasn't. You know, now I'm not even in my audition. I'm thinking about, how can I get this dude's attention like an asshole. So anyway, I prepare, I go in, I do the scene with dawn, and I go home. And I thought I didn't get it. And I did.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah, it was wild. It was such a journey, you know?

[Lena Waithe]

Wow.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

That's fascinating.

[Cree Summer]

It was crazy. It was crazy. And then she flew back to England.

[Lena Waithe]

Thank God.

[Cree Summer]

I mean, she was very nice, but.

[Lena Waithe]

You get to go, wow, what a harrowing journey.

[Cree Summer]

Harrowing.

[Lena Waithe]

What was the first day on set like?

[Cree Summer]

Also harrowing, because Charlie and I were really hanging on by a mosquito contere. They had us, like, they didn't say, here's your contract. Welcome to the show. We got three episodes, and if we were good, we could get another three. Do you know how fucking stressful that is? We did those three episodes, and I remember Charlie and I really just holding onto each other and just really praying that we could come back. And it was an instant love affair with Jasmine Guy, who took one look at me and decided we were gonna be sisters. And she took care of me. She coached me. I mean, I could start to cry thinking about it. She was just delightful. Yeah. So I feel like she ensured that I got another three and another three. I don't think we got a regular contract till the end. Very end of that. First season or second season. But for us, first season. Wow. We were scared all the time.

[Lena Waithe]

Jesus. I do wanna take a moment to honor Jasmine Guy. In this moment.

[Cree Summer]

I can just think of a story when I think of Jasmine. I remember I was doing a scene with her, and I was looking for something in a drawer. And I said, cut. And she said. She used to call me madam. And I called her Princess. Still to this day, Madame Manip, the manipulator of love and Princess Peach Fuzz. And she said, madam, what are you looking for? And I said, I don't know. I'm just in the drawer. She said, that's what it looks like. Wow. Yeah. And I said, oh, fuck, I better look for something. And it changed. Now I'm looking for something right now. I'm present. Another time we were rehearsing and I'm reading. She says, stop. She said, do you know you're saying that line the same way every time? I said, am I? She said, you are. And it again, another. Another elevation and another opportunity to evolve. That's sisterhood.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Cree Summer]

That's love. And she's always been that. For me, just solid. But everybody, I mean, that's a show. That's one of those rare shows where everybody's pretty delightful. I got my first love on that show.

[Lena Waithe]

It really was for this black Camelot.

[Cree Summer]

Yes, it was.

[Lena Waithe]

And I think that's why it reached out of the TV and kind of touched all of us. Because I think what you're talking about, even though I didn't know those small, nuanced stories, I think we can feel that community that you all had.

[Cree Summer]

There was no faking it.

[Lena Waithe]

And also, the honoring of you guys are. You're on a fictitious college campus that is a historically black college. And that is when Ms. Debbie Allen walks in and says, look, I went to Howard.

[Cree Summer]

Yes, I know what it's supposed to be like. I know what it's really like.

[Lena Waithe]

Right?

[Cree Summer]

Yeah. I mean, I'm from Canada. We ain't got no HBCUs in Canada. I didn't even know what the hell was going on.

[Lena Waithe]

I'm from Chicago.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah. I was like an hbcu. Okay. All black people go to school. Not only that, I'm a high school dropout. So I really was, you know, acting.

[Lena Waithe]

You were acting?

[Cree Summer]

I was acting my ass off.

[Lena Waithe]

You talked about being nervous those first couple episodes, obviously, because you had to hit the mark. I was actually gonna ask you what was the hardest part about doing multi cam comedy.

[Cree Summer]

I don't think that was the hard part. Quite frankly, the hard part was battling myself, trying to get a job.

[Lena Waithe]

I already had the entire run.

[Cree Summer]

Well, not the entire run. I mean, by the time when we got our contract, when we negotiated the contract and I got my first.

[Lena Waithe]

You're good.

[Cree Summer]

I got my first Harley Davidson. Then I went to work like this, you know, I was pimping into work.

[Lena Waithe]

Yes. I mean, well. Cause it's so interesting. Cause I got a chance to talk to Shirley Ralph. I got a chance to talk to Jada Pinkett about multicam and how it is a unique way of acting, and it's something I've never had to do. I've only been on single camera comedy, which is. It's like being in a film. They do want you to be subtle and.

[Cree Summer]

Oh, there was no subtlety.

[Lena Waithe]

Exactly.

[Cree Summer]

This was giant.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. But we still watch it now, and it still plays. And obviously, you. You guys weren't afraid to go to darker spaces. So I'm just curious for you, was it something that you had to learn on the fly, or was multicam acting something that sort of came naturally to you?

[Cree Summer]

I think it came naturally to me. I really do. Because once I really got into Freddie and into the relationships, I wasn't even thinking about it. I really wasn't. I mean, every now and then I think, oh, I better hit that mark. Or, you know. And we were well aware of who the four guys were operating the cameras and, you know, who was gonna get you at this angle and who was gonna get you there. Because it was a real family affair. I mean, I was like 17 years old. Right. I was a kid. And so there was lots of help offered. Yeah. I don't even think it was something I thought about.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

Because here's the deal. Playing the same character can be rewarding and repetitive.

[Cree Summer]

Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

So how did you keep Freddie fresh for yourself all those years?

[Cree Summer]

Oh, am I gonna be honest? Okay, I'll be honest. She was fresh for a while. By the time we got to Season six, I had a record deal with Capitol Records and my rock band Subject to Change. And I was about to go on tour. We were gonna open for a black ska band called Fishbone. And I was engaged to the drummer, and I was ready to get the fuck out of there. You know, Kadeem was doing movies, Jasmine was doing Harlem Nights. Like, we all couldn't wait to go to the next step. What we didn't realize was we ain't saved by the bell, we ain't those white shows, and the world wasn't waiting for us like that we couldn't wait because we thought, hey, we're the number two show in America. There's no way. Everybody can't wait to see us. And nobody gave a shit. And you saw how that show ended, with a whimper, not a bang. And I think it was a real reality check for everybody.

[Lena Waithe]

You know, you've led me to that question, which is, what was life like after being on a hit TV show on NBC?

[Cree Summer]

Yeah. Well, for me, it was great in a way, because I was doing what I had come to LA to do, which was to be a rock star. In my mind, I was. In my mind, I was gonna be a rock star, you know? And so I went on tour for a year and a half, and I was having the time of my life. And it was when I got off tour that I realized, no, there was no job waiting for me. And I couldn't get an agent. There were no auditions. And then you want to know who saved me? Gina Prince.

[Lena Waithe]

Bythewood.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

Gina Prince. Bythewood.

[Cree Summer]

She saved me. I was at home. Fish was the guy I was engaged to. He had split, and I was running out of money and I didn't know what to do. And she called me on the phone and said, can you get to NBC to read for this show I'm working on called Sweet justice, starring Cicely Tyson and Melissa Gilbert? And I said, yeah. And she said, I'm gonna take you right to network. And I went in, and the next thing I knew, I had a job. I was a regular on a series, and she just gave it to me. Wow.

[Lena Waithe]

And that's from the relationship From A Different World. Yeah.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

I was also gonna ask you first. I wanna go into some specific episodes of A Different World, but I want you to lead the way. What was the most difficult episode for you to film? I think I know this, but I'm curious to hear what you say.

[Cree Summer]

Probably the date rape episode.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah. No, actually, that wasn't the most difficult. The most difficult was Mammy Dearest.

[Lena Waithe]

That's what I thought it was.

[Cree Summer]

Did you see what I had to do?

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Cree Summer]

I was in full black face, right? Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

And that is, to me, one of my. It's one of the most pivotal episodes, actually. And A Different World. The reason why I love it is because, yes, it was funny, but you all weren't afraid to make us uncomfortable.

[Cree Summer]

Nope.

[Lena Waithe]

And I think that has had a lasting effect on me as an artist to never pacify the audience.

[Cree Summer]

You're here, baby. Come on.

[Lena Waithe]

Y' all taught me that. Oh, because you really weren't afraid to push us on Thursday night, does Debbie. But.

[Cree Summer]

But they would have had us shove it and jiving to the end of the road if it wasn't for Debbie.

[Lena Waithe]

Come on, Ms. Debbie Allen, how did you get through the filming of Mammie Dearest and what were the conversations that were happening?

[Cree Summer]

We were pissed. Oh, we were all on fire. The cast was furious, man.

[Lena Waithe]

And we'll speak about what Mammie Dearest is for those that maybe aren't aware.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

Mammie Dearest is an episode in which Whitley's character finds out that her family owns slaves. At one point, Lena James uncovers that. We're going into the. I think it's the Gilbert Library, actually, just sitting there. And also, Whitley is trying to honor a certain memorabilia she's trying to reappropriate.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah, to reclaim.

[Lena Waithe]

Reclaim it. Images from the past that were obviously propaganda.

[Cree Summer]

Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

But there are black people that want to reclaim these images and not feel shame, but rather find pride in it. And one of those characters for Whitley is Mammy. And she's honoring a lot of our ancestors.

[Cree Summer]

And Topsy.

[Lena Waithe]

Yes, Topsy.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah, and step and fetch it. And the first times we got to be seen.

[Lena Waithe]

Exactly. And so obviously Kimberly has a issue with that because she's dark skinned, a brown skinned woman. And the episode really does, I think, a pretty poetic job of getting to the end of that. And of course, it ends on a Nikki Giovanni poem where the first time I heard Nikki Giovanni really was. Yeah, that episode of A Different World. And that's also where I think you guys also educated us. You entertained us, you educated us and you pushed us.

[Cree Summer]

Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

And so I am curious how that. It was tough on set for everyone, but ultimately what you all made was something that really stuck and lasted. And I wonder if it was because of the heated debates you guys were having on set.

[Cree Summer]

There were so many heated debates. I was so uncomfortable.

[Lena Waithe]

I understand.

[Cree Summer]

You know, Jada got to do an African dance. You know what I mean?

[Lena Waithe]

Very well.

[Cree Summer]

Charlie got to recite the beautiful poem of Nikki Giovanni. And I was Topsy, you know, doing the thing with the hair and the black face. And I was very uncomfortable. And also I was young, don't forget. So I didn't know that it was important to do, you know, when you just don't know. I think I was. So what are people gonna think? Here's this fucking hi Yella doing this thing. Are they gonna think I'm an asshole, like as you do when you're young? You take everything so personal. And it was a retroactive love affair with that episode. We all love that episode.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow. Now, right?

[Cree Summer]

But we had to mature into loving that episode. We didn't even know what we were doing, how prolific and how important that was. And my mother is black as night. It's her favorite episode. Wow. Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow. What was the most fun episode for you to do?

[Cree Summer]

Oh, the stepping episode.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh.

[Cree Summer]

Because my mom is a dancer. Love Shout to Hellcat.

[Lena Waithe]

Come on.

[Cree Summer]

She was forcefully retired from the National Tap Company of Canada. She would have danced till the end of time. And I can dance, you know, so Freddie wasn't allowed to dance. And I remember doing that thing and everybody cracking up. Cause I looked like I had no rhythm. And I had to beg Debbie to let me dance. Cause she was gonna put me in the back and have me kind of stumble through. And I said, come on, Let me. Oh, Ms. GW, let me show em what I got.

[Lena Waithe]

I got something.

[Cree Summer]

And she said, okay, I won. And so she put me in the front and I was like, look at this. I can fucking dance.

[Lena Waithe]

Such a good episode.

[Cree Summer]

Such a good episode.

[Lena Waithe]

As we wrap up the Different World chapter. Because we could be here all day.

[Cree Summer]

But other things to talk about. Okay, Okay.

[Lena Waithe]

I just want to ask you.

[Cree Summer]

Oh, my God, look at this.

[Lena Waithe]

Come on.

[Cree Summer]

Okay.

[Lena Waithe]

How did a different world change your life?

[Cree Summer]

Oh, Jesus. It's the reason everybody knows my name. Completely changed my life. No one would have known who I was if it wasn't for Different World. I fell in love with Kadeem Hardison. That was my first grown up, real love affair. Best first boyfriend in the world. I mean, we loved comic books, we loved motorcycles. When I was a kid, I was obsessed with Fonzarelli and Pinky Toscadero from Happy Days. And there was an episode where they're popping wheelies together and they're jumping and they're frolicking through the field. You know, they're riding their bikes. And my mother said. I turned to her and I said, now that's real love, right? You know, God knows I'm probably like 8 years old. And so Kadeem was like, you know, we were Fonzie and Pinky. We would ride our bikes and. And I remember there was a comic book called Deathlok Marvel, I think there was only he was a black superhero, like a half man, half cyborg. And Kadeem was introducing me to Deathlok and he. I think that Marvel maybe made 10 issues. And we went to every comic book store in the city so he could get me, all 10 issues. And we drove our bike somewhere pretty and read all the comics. I mean, for me, that was. I mean, it's dreamy. So to me, you know what I mean? For a young girl. So Different World gave me Kadeem. Different world gave me Jasmine Guy, who is my eternal sister. I will. I'm honored to have Jasmine gave me Debbie Allen. Debbie Allen changed my life. After Different World, I got to take Debbie to the ballet to see the Eiffman Ballet. And I remember being so scared to call her because we hadn't seen each other in so many years, you know, And I said, I really want to take Debbie Allen out. And I took her to the ballet, and it was probably one of the best nights of my life. Yeah, she's. I mean, she's a miracle.

[Lena Waithe]

She's.

[Cree Summer]

You know, there's no one else that does everything that she does, that looks like us.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. In the way that she does.

[Cree Summer]

Except for maybe you now.

[Lena Waithe]

No, no, no. I'm still learning. I'm still sitting at the feet.

[Cree Summer]

Well, no, you feel like right here.

[Lena Waithe]

Well, you know, I'm grateful to all of you forever. We all are. For doing that. For having the debates, for getting uncomfortable, for lifting each other up in front and behind the scenes and showing us what a TV show family can look.

[Cree Summer]

Like, and for making everyone go to college.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. HBCUs.

[Cree Summer]

People didn't even know that they wanted to go to college till they saw a different world.

[Lena Waithe]

Right? Yeah. And also, you know, activism, being into, you know, being a lawyer and to be a freak.

[Cree Summer]

You know, there was Freddie Brooks all over those. All over the. And then they saw me and said, and Freddie Brooks. And Freddie.

[Lena Waithe]

And she's so just present. Like, when you look at her then it's like, oh, this is what everybody's saying now. She was ahead of her time.

[Cree Summer]

Yes, she was.

[Lena Waithe]

Now TV shows. There's another big TV show you were a part of, and it's animated that I watched as a young person and loved talking about Rugrats.

[Cree Summer]

Susie Carmichael. What the fucking best. She looked like us.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Cree Summer]

Finally. Because you were playing a black girl. A real little black girl. Pre Susie Carmichael. All the characters were just white, template colored black. Susie had the barrettes.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. The hair, the braids, the fits.

[Cree Summer]

The fits. Everything. The attitude.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Cree Summer]

She was checking Angelica. You know what I mean? Not today, Angelica.

[Lena Waithe]

Not today.

[Cree Summer]

Not fucking today, Angelica.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow. That went nine seasons.

[Cree Summer]

Yes. And then we just did it again. I know, but we just got canned.

[Lena Waithe]

Okay.

[Cree Summer]

But we did it. We did it again.

[Lena Waithe]

How? You know what's interesting, Mary Tyler Moore talked about striking lightning twice.

[Cree Summer]

I watched that documentary because of you. And it. Anyway, obsessed.

[Lena Waithe]

It's interesting.

[Cree Summer]

The best.

[Lena Waithe]

It's hard to be a part of iconic TV shows more than once because they just don't come along very often. Rugrats is up there. It's such a beautiful. The animation is really beautiful and interesting and thoughtful and artful. And you being a part of that means a lot to a lot of us. So what did it mean for you?

[Cree Summer]

It was everything. I mean, I remember when I first. You know, when you do animation, you get a picture and you take it home and you look at. Well, back in the day, used to take it home. Now I'm just Do it at home. Yeah. But I remember I saw that picture of her and I thought, oh, my God, that's us at last. And I just got so. And I didn't wait. Now that I think about it, I didn't audition for Rugrats offer. I was given Rugrats.

[Lena Waithe]

As you should have been.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah. I was gifted. Rugrats, wow. But I remember getting that picture and going, oh, my God, let's go.

[Lena Waithe]

What did you. Did you have anything in mind for the character's voice or. Obviously.

[Cree Summer]

Well, I'd heard everybody else's voice, and I knew that they were going, ultra, baby.

[Lena Waithe]

Okay. And.

[Cree Summer]

I got to be a little elevated. Cause Susie was just a little bit older.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Cree Summer]

A little bit older. And Susie's parents, you know, two doctors. Susie was smart, and so I wanted to just give her that little edge, just make her noticeably smart, you know?

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. And what are you. What is your process when you're in the booth?

[Cree Summer]

Everybody wants some deep thing.

[Lena Waithe]

You know what I mean?

[Cree Summer]

Everybody. Like, you know, some Jack Daniels, mendelated pools. I mean, because I always say my voice sounds like a thousand miles of dirt road and regret, you know, it's just like you dragged my vocal cords down the road. I don't do anything. You know what? I look at the. I look at what it looks like. What does this character look like? What does it make me feel? And then I go, just do it. Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

I think that's your gift. I think it's because you aren't thinking so much about it.

[Cree Summer]

I don't think about it.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow.

[Cree Summer]

And it's. Listen, it's fun.

[Lena Waithe]

That's what I was gonna ask. How do you keep that fun for.

[Cree Summer]

Oh, my God, I just fucking love it.

[Lena Waithe]

And then you keep going back.

[Cree Summer]

Cartoons don't hurt anybody. You know, I have A clean conscience job. I go to sleep at night, you know, when my kids aren't driving me fucking crazy, I go to sleep at night. And cartoons will always be beloved to me because it's the first time as a kid, you see what can I be right? And so. And I think they keep me young. Cartoons keep me young.

[Lena Waithe]

You look very young. You're aging backwards.

[Cree Summer]

Thank you.

[Lena Waithe]

Such a lovely gift.

[Cree Summer]

Thank you.

[Lena Waithe]

You know what's interesting is you never veered away from the sitcom after A Different World. Some people may say, oh, I don't want to go back to a multi cam set. But what I found was you made appear on some really iconic black sitcoms.

[Cree Summer]

I did, yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

And one of them is one of my all time favorites, which is Living Single.

[Cree Summer]

Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

And what's Yvette? But what's special about this is that as we try to get away from a different world, we kind of keep.

[Cree Summer]

And keep pulling me back in.

[Lena Waithe]

Yvette Leigh Bowser.

[Cree Summer]

Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

Who began, you know, her early career on A Different World.

[Cree Summer]

On a different. All of us intertwined. Susan Felt. Hello, Gina. You. Yvette.

[Lena Waithe]

A lot of people think I didn't work in a different world, but it's as if I'm an honorary employee because I'm just, you know. But how was it for you to be on the set of Yvette Leigh Bowser's show?

[Cree Summer]

It was crazy.

[Lena Waithe]

After having witnessed her be a writer on A Different World, is that not the dream that.

[Cree Summer]

I mean, it was wonderful, but I think, I don't know if Debbie talked to you about this, but Debbie changed the game. You know, actors and writers and ne' er the two shall meet was what it used to be like. But for Debbie, we were always intertwined with the writers. They were always on the set. You could go to them anytime and say, hey, what if Freddie tried this? Or I don't think Freddie would say this. We just had so much communication. So to go from that to seeing Yvette on Living Single was pretty seamless.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow.

[Cree Summer]

I was just proud of her, of course. You know, like, let's go.

[Lena Waithe]

And I loved. You know that episode's called Love Thy Neighbor.

[Cree Summer]

Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

And you go on a date with Overton.

[Cree Summer]

Yes. And I wasn't. I was no Mensa member. I mean, she was not very bright.

[Lena Waithe]

Okay.

[Cree Summer]

Remember Summer? She was like one of the dead eyed children, if I remember correctly.

[Lena Waithe]

Summer was, you know. Yeah.

[Cree Summer]

She was doing her best. She was a girl with a dream. You know what I mean?

[Lena Waithe]

What was that call like? Did your Agent just call you? Did Yvette call you? It was just a fun thing that.

[Cree Summer]

You'Re like, oh, have an agent at that time is the question.

[Lena Waithe]

Who did the deal?

[Cree Summer]

I think my manager did the deal. He never left me. He stuck. He stuck around. Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

And just. Was it just a cool thing to have?

[Cree Summer]

It was just a cool thing to go hang out. You know, I'm also curious, what was.

[Lena Waithe]

It like working with that cast?

[Cree Summer]

Oh, God, it was beautiful. Everybody was so cool. I had never met Erica before. Oh, wow. And that was an instant love affair, of course. And I had never met. I don't think I had met Kim before.

[Lena Waithe]

Kim Fields, Kim Cole.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah. I hadn't met either Kim. I had never met Queen Latifah. So it was just like. It was fantastic. And I already liked the show. I watched the show on purpose.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow.

[Cree Summer]

So it was great.

[Lena Waithe]

That's cool. How was it different from. Cause obviously, every show has their own vibe and obviously a different world. You were a part of that. As you showing up as a guest on Living Single. What was the energy? What was the vibe?

[Cree Summer]

Well, I was pretty spoiled. I mean, I was treated very kindly, of course, but, you know, you're a guest star. You know, it's like sleeping on somebody's couch. You don't live there.

[Lena Waithe]

No.

[Cree Summer]

You know, so you just come hang out, eat their food, and then you fly back home, do your part. Yeah, that's right.

[Lena Waithe]

Speaking of iconic sitcoms is another one. You popped up on Fresh Prince of Bel Air.

[Cree Summer]

Fresh Prince of Bel Air, of course.

[Lena Waithe]

As one of the many love interests of the world.

[Cree Summer]

I know. How did he. Come on. Look, I mean, he's cute, but we're going crazy now. He had everybody.

[Lena Waithe]

Well, he did everybody. But I love it. To me, it's like the Jet magazine, you know what I'm saying?

[Cree Summer]

Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

Like, okay. All right.

[Cree Summer]

He had every Beauty of the Week.

[Lena Waithe]

And look, you were one of them. Okay.

[Cree Summer]

Yes. I remember I had to straddle him and kiss his neck.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. I rewatched the episode. It was really cool. What was your experience like working with Will?

[Cree Summer]

That was fantastic.

[Lena Waithe]

Y' all have a really great chemistry. You buy it as y', all, as a couple.

[Cree Summer]

Do you?

[Lena Waithe]

You do.

[Cree Summer]

Oh, I love that. Yeah, I love that. I mean, it was beautiful. He was very kind. I remember, like I said, I was engaged to Fish at the time. I remember he bought me this big bouquet, like a congratulations thing.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow.

[Cree Summer]

But it was like that again. It was like Living Single in the sense that I walked on and felt so adored. You know, just. I've been very lucky. I've really been lucky. When I think back and even think now when I get to guest star on shows, I've always been treated with such kindness. I'm pretty fucking spoiled.

[Lena Waithe]

You're beloved. You're beloved. Well, I also want. Now we're gonna. It's funny, with your career, it's very much live action and animation.

[Cree Summer]

It goes back and forth. Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

There's a movie, an animated movie that I remember seeing on TV and loving so much and getting lost in it.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

And of course, I revisited the movie again for this conversation.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

Atlantis, the Lost Empire.

[Cree Summer]

It's one of my. It's one of the best Disney movies ever. And my character, Princess Kida, is the first black Disney princess.

[Lena Waithe]

See what I'm saying?

[Cree Summer]

Come on. They don't give me no love for that shit. Let's talk about it. What are you talking to? What the fuck is going on?

[Lena Waithe]

Come on.

[Cree Summer]

That drives me crazy.

[Lena Waithe]

It's such a epic movie.

[Cree Summer]

It's an action movie. And Kida was. Wasn't she something?

[Lena Waithe]

She was amazing.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

What? I was in the. Michael J. Fox, obviously.

[Cree Summer]

Michael J. Fox was my love interest.

[Lena Waithe]

It was so fascinating. I'm curious, what did you think when that project crossed your desk?

[Cree Summer]

I. Oh, Jesus. I couldn't believe it. That I was gonna be in a Disney feature. And I couldn't believe I was gonna be a Disney princess. I had to pinch myself. That whole time, I remember working with Michael, just going, is this. And for me, too, I was working with Father Guido Sarducci. Do you remember him?

[Lena Waithe]

Yes.

[Cree Summer]

I'm a Die Hard Gilda Radner fan. She is really one of my favorite comedians of all time. May she rest in peace. Beautiful Gilda. She.

[Lena Waithe]

Her influence.

[Cree Summer]

And Lorraine Newman is another. I just worshiped these women from early snl. And Gilda had this wonderful movie called Gilda Live. And she had this comedian, Father Guido Sarducci, that would come out and he was in Atlantis. And I remember he was the one I couldn't fucking wait to meet, you know? Wow. Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow. Well, I mean, the voice work in that movie is really stunning.

[Cree Summer]

Amazing, isn't it?

[Lena Waithe]

And just revisiting just that animation, the way it looks.

[Cree Summer]

It's delicious to your eyes.

[Lena Waithe]

So smart.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

What you.

[Cree Summer]

That was, by the way, a major bomb.

[Lena Waithe]

I know.

[Cree Summer]

You know, it tanked, which is. It tanked.

[Lena Waithe]

Nuts. Because it's so special. But there are some cool kids out there that know about Atlanta.

[Cree Summer]

That's right. Those who know. Those who Know, they know you know.

[Lena Waithe]

About Atlanta is cool. If you don't, that's on you. You do speak with a bit of an accent in the film.

[Cree Summer]

Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

Where was that a directorial choice?

[Cree Summer]

That was a directorial choice with a.

[Lena Waithe]

Coach on that one.

[Cree Summer]

Well, I didn't have a coach, but, you know, I've spoken so many fictitious languages. I mean, I was in George Lucas first cartoon, which is called Ewoks and Droids, where I spoke Ewokian and there I speak Atlantean.

[Lena Waithe]

Right.

[Cree Summer]

And we did a kind of mashup of a Middle Eastern plus some kind of staccato things that would be kind of maybe British sounding. And we just kind of mashed the two together. I love doing fictional accents and things like that. I like playing an alien. I like to play, you know, third duck to the left. You know what? I do it all. I love it. It's fun.

[Lena Waithe]

So for you with that process, did you have to think about it a little bit more?

[Cree Summer]

I had a bible.

[Lena Waithe]

Okay.

[Cree Summer]

I mean, listen, these nerds, which I say with the utmost reverence. I consider myself a nerd. As you see, I've got Boba Fett and Chewie and I got Darth Vader.

[Lena Waithe]

Come on.

[Cree Summer]

You know, these nerds don't fuck around.

[Lena Waithe]

No.

[Cree Summer]

So it was a full bible for the language. Yeah. So there was a word for everything, which is so cool.

[Lena Waithe]

Was that an exhausting process or an exhilarating?

[Cree Summer]

Exhilarating.

[Lena Waithe]

Nice. Yeah, nice. Well, something a little bit lighter, but just as significant.

[Cree Summer]

Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

Is Proud Family.

[Cree Summer]

Proud Family Lo people.

[Lena Waithe]

Yes.

[Cree Summer]

I wouldn't do that if I was you, Mr. Proud.

[Lena Waithe]

Another classic voice, amazing character. I love that series.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

And I was very honored to be. To come back when they came back around. Came back around.

[Cree Summer]

Come on, Ralph.

[Lena Waithe]

Bruce.

[Cree Summer]

Yes. Yes. They're so good.

[Lena Waithe]

I know. That's why I wanted to ask you, because I have a wonderful time.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah, it's fun. They let you play, right? You can say whatever. I mean, it's. I'll add Livia to death.

[Lena Waithe]

Same.

[Cree Summer]

You know, flag on the field. Bitch. Shut up. I'll keep going.

[Lena Waithe]

You'll probably go further than me because I'm like, do you get it? Do we have it? What? I just was curious what your experience was working on that one.

[Cree Summer]

Well, I love them. They're beautiful. I love anything that lets me just play. I'm also a fan of Mae west, who, you know, used to rewrite everything she got and also made the first drag show. I know people don't know that, but she's responsible for the first drag show. Oh, she was amazing. So I always love the idea of just getting in there and playing. And they let me play. They just let me go, and I have a good time. I couldn't believe they brought Peabo back, you know? And then I also played this big Bufferina, this big Russian. She's like, if she was a truck, she'd have 18 wheels.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. I mean, but that's what's so great about that show is that they have iconic, like, black folks behind the voices and. But I just remember when it first came on and how special that was for my sister and I. Yeah.

[Cree Summer]

Penny proud.

[Lena Waithe]

Yes. Big deal. You know, from white penny to black penny.

[Cree Summer]

Yes, that's right. The pennies.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Cree Summer]

I didn't even think of that. That's so cool.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. Another iconic show that you popped up on that I thought was so fitting. Cause I love this show, and I respect it as much as I respect A Different World. So to see you on it, I thought was very smart of them to do. I'm talking about Atlanta.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah. Donald. God, I love that. What a beautiful man he is. And he's so fucking wise and so innovative, gifted and gifted. And he's been so generous to me. He calls me and gives me presents all the time. That was, by the way, that scene in Atlanta.

[Lena Waithe]

Yes.

[Cree Summer]

Is a phone conversation Donald and I had.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh.

[Cree Summer]

I mean, he had called me up. No, no, this is the funny part. I called him, and then we were getting off the phone, and I said, I'm so glad you called me. And he says, you called me. I was probably deep in the fight. You know, I'll put my bong down.

[Lena Waithe]

You didn't have to remind me.

[Cree Summer]

But he. We had this wild conversation about other worlds and where do we think we. What spaces do we occupy? And then next thing I knew, it was in classic.

[Lena Waithe]

I mean, classic conversation with Donald. You know, I remember reading Diane Carroll's memoirs, Plural, there's two, Both amazing. But in them, she talks about her time working on A Different World. And what's so beautiful about it is she speaks about remembering being on the set of Julia and how she was so proud to be on the set of A Different World, to just witness the progress that she had started.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

And I think I can say this. You being on the set of Atlanta is also a sort of a version of you getting to see where things are now and what you helped start. I'm curious, what blew you away about that set?

[Cree Summer]

Well, it ran so efficiently, for one, and just Just that it was Donald's creation, like you said, that we could make something like that, that we could be seen in that perspective. You know, we've been so hindered by caricature and lack of opportunity, which doesn't get us to see all the dimensions that we are. And that's what I loved about Atlanta. It was. I haven't seen us like that before, yet we've always existed like that. Thank you. Thank you so much. You know, that's what we gotta keep doing.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. And you keep showing up.

[Cree Summer]

I know. I'm so lucky again. Just spoiled rotten, you know, I get the call.

[Lena Waithe]

Well, it's also reverence. It's love. It's gratitude. So, look, the last show we're going to talk about is. It's one of my favorite shows of all time.

[Cree Summer]

I know.

[Lena Waithe]

I love this show so much. I love the person who created it, and she's something. Better things.

[Cree Summer]

Yes. Can I tell you, that was another savior.

[Lena Waithe]

I know.

[Cree Summer]

Did she tell you this story?

[Lena Waithe]

I don't know what she told me about all those people.

[Cree Summer]

Well, we're talking about Pamela Adlon.

[Lena Waithe]

Yes, we are.

[Cree Summer]

Who I call Jupiter, okay? And Jupiter Thunder Road, patron saint of divorced women.

[Lena Waithe]

Come on.

[Cree Summer]

So I had just. The father of my children had just split, and now I'm a single mother and I'm scared shitless. And I was doing okay with voiceover, but not enough to carry three chicks Now. Now there's three girls in the house. Mama and the Savages. And I get this call from Flea, the casting director. Flea Fasano, who calls me and says, hey. And I've known Pam for years. We've worked together in cartoons, right?

[Lena Waithe]

She's a voiceover actress.

[Cree Summer]

We've been probably doing cartoons together for 25 years.

[Lena Waithe]

Love it.

[Cree Summer]

And I probably hadn't hung out with Pam maybe in five or six years, you know, really seen her. And so Flea calls and she says, your friend Pam wants you to come in and read for better things. And I said, no, thanks, because I hadn't been on camera for 25 years. I said, no, thank you. You know? And I was also deep in heartbreak. I was really broken up, man. I didn't feel like I could get out of bed, let alone come audition for something. Are you fucking kidding me? So Flea calls back and she says, pam says, you have to audition, and I'm gonna come in on Saturday by myself and put you on tape. Fuck. Okay. Damn it. So I'm learning the script. I get there. Flea's taping me full on. Fucking Hot flash. Cause I'm in menopause. Do you remember that great moment in Broadcast news with Albert Brooks?

[Lena Waithe]

Yes.

[Cree Summer]

When he finally gets to do the anchor position and he just is drenched in flop sweat. That was me, right? The camera guy's like. And I'm just fucking trenched. So needless to say, I gave one of the shittiest auditions of my life, and I walked out of there and I said, fuck. Fuck. I blew it. Because once I got there, you know, once you get there, you want the job.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Cree Summer]

And there I was, sweating like a whore in church. And so I got home and I thought, well, I blew that, didn't I? And then I got the call saying, you can come, but you didn't get that part. That was a big part. Okay, so we're gonna bring your raggedy ass in and give you a little part. So I came in with my little part and I pulled a Mae West. I just started fucking ad libbing my ass off. Everything. Just can't shut this bitch up. So after that first episode, I get a call and get a call, and Jupiter says, well, we're bringing you back. That was fantastic. And then it got bigger, and then it got bigger. And then I was in the second season, and then the second season was all an arc about my breakup in real life.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah, of course.

[Cree Summer]

That we recreated. Of course.

[Lena Waithe]

That's what Bam was.

[Cree Summer]

And then the last season, she calls me up and she says, well, you're such a good storyteller. Would you like to write on the show or would you like to act on the show? I said, I want to write on the show. And then I wrote myself back into the show.

[Lena Waithe]

That's what you do. Very smart.

[Cree Summer]

And I've made my brother Rainbow sun, my brother in this show. Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

What was it like being on that.

[Cree Summer]

Set and working with Pam, man, again? Just, you know, I get by with a little help from my friends. Like the Beatles say, you know, I. My friends have saved me. My friends are the reason I still have a career. And Jupiter saved me. And one thing, to work with your friend who you adore is great, but I've always wanted to write. I'm a song, you know, I've always been a songwriter. I've always had rock bands. And I've always wanted to be a real writer, which I know one shouldn't be more real than the other, but, you know, I got six years of formal education, right. And I spell for shit. So for someone to give me the opportunity to be a staff writer on one of the 10 biggest shows in America, says Time magazine, Right? And now I'm in a writer's room. Are you fucking kidding me?

[Lena Waithe]

Where you belong.

[Cree Summer]

It was heaven on earth. And what a gift. What a gift. And I love that experience. I mean, if I could be in a write. Well, don't let me get too excited. I know every writer's room ain't that writer's room. But if I could be in writers rooms like that forever, and that was a gift. She didn't have to throw me that gargantuan opportunity, but she did.

[Lena Waithe]

What did you learn about yourself in.

[Cree Summer]

That writer's room in that experience? I learned I can do it.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Cree Summer]

And I learned I could be back on camera. I was pushing maximum density. I was a real dump truck. You know, when I get sad, I eat everything. So I was really uncomfortable in my skin. And I think when relationships end before you're ready to have them end, it can make you very insecure. I was very insecure. So to be on camera at that time was like, God damn it, this is the last. I wouldn't want to be seen right now is how I felt. I remember always adjusting my clothes. I remember. See also I had graves disease, which I'm in remission from. And graves disease, if treated, doesn't have to be such a drag. But I didn't treat it. It became graves disease of the eyes, which can make your eyes look very bulgy, very Feldmanian, very Marty Feldman. And I was very self conscious. So it was like a crisis of vanity. And what I learned is I'm not what I look like and that my acting doesn't have anything to do with what I look like. You know, and being a mother of girls, I think it was a very good lesson in retrospect. I'm really happy that I was got to be and feel that unattractive. I had graves disease for 10 years. And what a beautiful gift. I mean, I didn't fucking like it then, but it made me a better actor. It's not about what you look like, which I didn't even know was a hangup of mine. I didn't know I was depending on my face or my body in any way because I've never played a leading lady. I've never played a pretty girl.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow.

[Cree Summer]

So I didn't know that was a crutch.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

It's so interesting because we were talking about your time on Fresh Prince of Bel Air, being one of the beauties that.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah, that was.

[Lena Waithe]

That turned the corner. Did that not Cement it to you. Did that not make you feel, oh, I'm one of the pretty girls?

[Cree Summer]

No, I don't think I felt that way.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow. Well, thank you for sharing that.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah. I don't think I've ever. I think I've talked about that maybe once before.

[Lena Waithe]

I appreciate you sharing.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

Well, it's always such a joy to see you on television. That's the thing. It's like you bring so much joy and so much light, and so I wanted to ask you. Final question.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah. Final question. Yeah. God damn it.

[Lena Waithe]

I know. It's a big one, though.

[Cree Summer]

Oh, God.

[Lena Waithe]

What is your definition of a really great actress?

[Cree Summer]

Someone I believe when I believe it, when I know they believe it. You and I have had talk, conversations when we're alone about being present. And, you know, it's my favorite thing. To me, it is the prescription for life to be. We spend so many people, and myself included, we spend so many, so much time jumping out of our bodies, abandoning ourselves, leaving ourselves. A great actress is someone who stays in that character, is in the body of that character and is present. It's like what Jasmine said to me. What you looking for in that drawer, Miss Thing. Right. A great actress knows what the fuck she's looking for. You can be that character. I've been many different people in my life. I'm not that same chick that was on Better Things. I'm not the same chick that was on Atlanta. I'm different now. And so if I can be many people in real life, I can be many characters, and that's what a great actress is.

[Lena Waithe]

Well, Jimmy, that's a beautiful definition, and I think you fit it really beautifully.

[Cree Summer]

Thank you.

[Lena Waithe]

Because as for all the years I've watched you, I've listened to you.

[Cree Summer]

Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

You feel just that very present. And I think you talked about not thinking about it always.

[Cree Summer]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

Not overthinking it. And I think that's why everybody loves you and keeps coming back, because you are existing on screen, in the space. In the booth.

[Cree Summer]

In the booth.

[Lena Waithe]

And we can hear it. We can hear your presence. We can feel your presence. And I think we appreciate the fact that your big sis, Jasmine, reminded you to be even more present.

[Cree Summer]

Thank God. I mean, where was I? I was just, like, hovering above myself.

[Lena Waithe]

You're existing in the world.

[Cree Summer]

Ye. She was like, girl, get in your body and look for something in the specific in that fucking drawer.

[Lena Waithe]

Well, I'm grateful for all the work, all the hours, all the presence that you brought, because you really do shine a light in every space that you're in. And even with.

[Cree Summer]

I love you, Lena.

[Lena Waithe]

Even with your voice is a light that just is a comfort to our ears. And so we all just want to say.

[Cree Summer]

You're gonna make me cry. I'm so fucking sensitive.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, God, thank you. Thank you for being a voice in our lives and for being the presence that you.

[Cree Summer]

Don't make me cry.

[Lena Waithe]

I'm trying to.

[Cree Summer]

Christ, I'm trying to keep my shit together. God damn. Can I be cute today, motherfucker?

[Lena Waithe]

I love you. Thank you. That's a cut.