Building a Legacy with Jenifer Lewis

Summary

Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe: Building a Legacy with Jennifer Lewis

Episode Released: December 10, 2024

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Introduction

In the poignant episode titled "Building a Legacy with Jennifer Lewis," Lena Waithe, host of Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe, delves deep into the illustrious career and personal journey of the Emmy-Award-winning actress, Jennifer Lewis. Produced by Hillman Grad and Lemonada Media, this episode serves as an intimate exploration of Lewis's contributions to entertainment, her creative process, and the enduring legacy she is crafting for future generations.

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Early Career and Dreamgirls

The conversation kicks off with Jennifer Lewis reminiscing about her early days in theater, particularly her involvement with the iconic Broadway production of Dreamgirls. Lewis shares her experiences working under the legendary Michael Bennett and describes the rigorous workshop process that went beyond traditional table reads.

Jennifer Lewis (02:30): "Michael Bennett started a process of working through Broadway shows in a workshop environment. It started with A Chorus Line. He wanted to develop those characters not just in a writer's room, but with the people around the table."

Lewis reflects on her role in bringing the character Effie to life, highlighting the depth and complexity she infused into the role.

Jennifer Lewis (03:19): "Cause Effy, it's kind of who I was at the time. Desperate, young, unwise, making very bad life choices."

Despite her passion and dedication, Lewis candidly discusses the challenges she faced when the role was ultimately cast to Jennifer Holliday, acknowledging the harsh realities of the entertainment industry.

Jennifer Lewis (05:47): "He said, we're not bringing you back. We're gonna hire Jennifer Holiday. I said, okay. Just like that."

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Transition to Television and A Different World

Transitioning from stage to screen, Jennifer Lewis sheds light on her pivotal role in the beloved television series A Different World. She recounts the moment Debbie Allen offered her the role of Dean Dorothy Dandridge Davenport, a character inspired by Dr. Johnnetta Cole, former president of Spelman College.

Jennifer Lewis (09:33): "So I pulled from her the compassion that she had for me... She said, Jennifer, I've observed you. She's on my list. She was firm, she was smart, she was wise."

Lewis emphasizes the trust Debbie Allen placed in her, allowing her creative freedom to portray the character authentically. She shares an endearing behind-the-scenes anecdote that showcases her bond with co-star Regina King.

Jennifer Lewis (12:19): "There's a big great, like, bloopers reel of A Different World. And you're in there and you get something wrong and you say, 'Am I fired?' And she says, 'Honey, you are never fired.'"

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Experiences in Film: What's Love Got to Do With It & Preacher's Wife

Jennifer Lewis opens up about her transformative experience working on the biographical film What's Love Got to Do With It, where she portrayed Zelma Bullock, the mother of Tina Turner. Her dedication to embodying the role is evident as she integrates personal experiences and familial insights into her performance.

Jennifer Lewis (15:27): "One thing I learned in developing a character is to bring what you are to that moment. You have to bring who you are to the character."

Lewis shares a heartfelt encounter with Aileen Lewis (Tina Turner's mother) that profoundly impacted her understanding of the character.

Jennifer Lewis (16:34): "I stood timidly. I said, 'I'm getting ready to cry.' Oh, God. I said, 'Ms. Bullock.' And she said, 'I wanted to be so dressed up when I met you.' That meant I had done a fucking good job."

Discussing Preacher's Wife, Lewis praises her co-star Whitney Houston, describing their collaborative chemistry and the magical moments they created on set.

Jennifer Lewis (24:20): "It was magic. She was lovely and she was humble. Just her instrument."

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Role in Blackish and Continued Influence

Lewis details how she landed her role in the critically acclaimed sitcom Blackish, portraying Laurence Fishburne's wife. Her spontaneous and genuine interaction with Fishburne during the audition process set the tone for their on-screen chemistry.

Jennifer Lewis (37:49): "Lawrence and I on What's Love Got to Do With It? We became sister and brother. Great story."

She reflects on the importance of bringing her authentic self to every character, ensuring her performances resonate deeply with audiences.

Jennifer Lewis (27:33): "I am honest, I am focused, and most of the time, I know exactly what I'm doing."

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Personal Reflections and Legacy

Towards the episode's conclusion, Jennifer Lewis offers introspective thoughts on her career trajectory, the awards she aspires to, and the internal struggles she faced. She candidly discusses feelings of jealousy when peers receive accolades she yearned for, juxtaposed with her unwavering commitment to her craft.

Jennifer Lewis (31:36): "Where's mine? Where's mine? Where's mine? That's some painful shit to admit."

Lewis articulates her definition of a great entertainer, emphasizing the responsibility performers have towards their audience.

Jennifer Lewis (41:24): "Caring about the audience, honoring the audience, loving the audience. All of those wonderful people out there in the dark, knowing you're responsible. So give them everything you've got."

In a touching exchange, Lena Waithe acknowledges Lewis's profound impact on both the industry and her personal life, celebrating her ability to blend humor with resilience.

Lena Waithe (43:10): "You've been through so much, but you remind us all to still laugh. Not just the surface kind, but that deep laughter from the pit of our stomachs."

Lewis concludes with a powerful affirmation of her legacy, underscoring her relentless spirit and dedication.

Jennifer Lewis (45:46): "You have the power to walk the fuck through it. That's it."

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Conclusion

"Building a Legacy with Jennifer Lewis" is a tribute to a formidable talent whose journey embodies perseverance, creativity, and unwavering dedication to her art. Jennifer Lewis not only shares her professional milestones but also offers a raw and heartfelt glimpse into her personal battles and triumphs. This episode stands as a testament to her enduring legacy in the entertainment world, inspiring both current and future generations of Black women in the industry.

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Notable Quotes

• On Dreamgirls Workshop Process:
  Jennifer Lewis (02:30): "Michael Bennett started a process of working through Broadway shows in a workshop environment. It started with A Chorus Line. He wanted to develop those characters not just in a writer's room, but with the people around the table."

• On Portraying Effie:
  Jennifer Lewis (03:19): "Cause Effy, it's kind of who I was at the time. Desperate, young, unwise, making very bad life choices."

• On A Different World:
  Jennifer Lewis (09:33): "So I pulled from her the compassion that she had for me... She said, Jennifer, I've observed you. She's on my list. She was firm, she was smart, she was wise."

• On What's Love Got to Do With It:
  Jennifer Lewis (15:27): "One thing I learned in developing a character is to bring what you are to that moment. You have to bring who you are to the character."

• Defining a Great Entertainer:
  Jennifer Lewis (41:24): "Caring about the audience, honoring the audience, loving the audience. All of those wonderful people out there in the dark, knowing you're responsible. So give them everything you've got."

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Jennifer Lewis's narrative in this episode is not just a recounting of her career but a masterclass in resilience, authenticity, and the profound impact one individual can have on culture and society. Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe successfully captures the essence of Lewis's journey, making it a must-listen for anyone inspired by stories of legacy and empowerment.

Transcript

[Lena Waithe]

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[Jennifer Lewis]

Lemonade. I see you nodding over. You know you falling asleep, right? That you are snoring. What? You snoring?

[Unknown]

Legacy, oh, Legacy, oh.

[Jennifer Lewis]

I love life. I love being alive. I was depressed the first 35 years of my life. That was just the gift I lived was born to make people laugh. And that meant I had done a fucking good job. The question was, where is mine? That's some painful shit to admit.

[Unknown]

Jan. Of course my eyes are watering already because you're making me laugh. That's what you do. But I wanted to have a conversation with you about your career. I think people think a person like you is sort of just being yourself and just being super alive and passionate and funny and silly and quick. But I know that you're trained. I know that you got your start in the theater and you went to school for this. So for you, the first thing we're gonna talk about is something you helped create but weren't ultimately a part of the final product. So today we're gonna begin with Dream Girls.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Yes, Dream Girls. Oh, my God. You're going back so far.

[Lena Waithe]

And the reason why I want to.

[Unknown]

Talk about Dreamgirls is because Effie, who became a very iconic character on that stage and ultimately on screen, is a character that you helped breathe life into and you helped create. How did that come to you? How did that happen?

[Jennifer Lewis]

Michael Bennett started a process of working through Broadway shows in a workshop environment. It started with A Chorus Line. He wanted to develop those characters not just in a writer's room, but with the people around the table.

[Unknown]

Right?

[Jennifer Lewis]

Wasn't just a read through.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Jennifer Lewis]

It was a work through. You got up and you sang those songs at a table read. And then we all, of course, left the table and put it on our feet, right? So, yes, I came in after Jennifer Holiday. They kind of knew that they were going to hire her back.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Not even kind of. They knew nobody could sing like that.

[Unknown]

Darling, what was your first impression of the character Effie in the beginning?

[Jennifer Lewis]

Cause Effy, it's kind of who I was at the time. Desperate, young, unwise, making very bad life choices.

[Unknown]

Talented but invisible.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Yes, yes, yes. And Estelle Getty, who was the old woman on Golden Girls, right at that time. Effie was a nurse. She was desperate for stardom, but she had this big heart where there was a scene where she. Jesus, Effie. Would be wheelchairing her through Central Park. And we had a song where she would complain, like Driving with Miss Daisy. And Effie was like, you know, bitch, please. You know, I got rehearsal, right? You know I'm gonna be late and I don't care.

[Unknown]

Interesting.

[Jennifer Lewis]

So it was all those intricate things about Effie. The songs were insane. I watched Henry Krieger create. Step into the bedside. Ooh, Woo woo, woo, woo. And there stood oh Baba Tunde and Cleavon Derricks and Curtis. Curtis, Curtis, Ben. Ben Harney. They were gods in the theater. The harmonies, everybody just Shirley Ralph, Loretta Devine. Yeah, she had that voice. And even though my man throws and you just. We all brought who we were, we were ready for that. We were ready for those emotions, the betrayal that white artists would just steal our shit. My voice was meteoric at the time. I was so young. I had no fear in me. I was right out of college and all I knew was I was gonna be a star. Cause I wanted my mother to love me.

[Unknown]

How far did you get in the process before you.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Oh, we finished. We finished the workshop. There was a read through for the Shuberts and the Nederlanders. These were the great producers on Broadway at the time. And it was Michael Peters that really wanted me. Michael Peters, this is a true story. Got up and ran around the room because he couldn't believe how far my kick went behind my head. This kick went behind my head at the time. And him being the choreographer was like, oh, my God, she can do anything. And the voice, once again, my voice was described as half laser beam, half lava flow. I would hit notes that would damn near explode my head. That's how training at Webster University, you know, prepared me for Broadway. I had no fear in me.

[Unknown]

How was it for you when the show did come out and it become miss Hit?

[Jennifer Lewis]

Here we go with the hurt. I did UB national, which was very successful. And all those reviews I just told you about, I got those kind of reviews. So it wasn't like oh, poor me. I'm never gonna work. No, child, not back then. I had a job. It was about a job. I didn't care. That telephone call with Tom Iyen. I'm gonna tell the absolute truth. When he said, we're not bringing you back. We're gonna hire Jennifer Holiday. I said, okay. Just like that. Okay. Cause I had a job. He wanted me to break down. Come on, go back to it. I didn't. I did say, oh, why? Just like that. But I knew. He said, because when you're on stage, I can't even see anybody else. And with my Jennifer Lewisness and in my early 20s. And I was like, I'm so sorry. I know.

[Unknown]

Can we jump ahead some years to you being on television? What people know about me is how much of an impact A Different World had on my life.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Yes.

[Unknown]

My career, my person. And when Jada Pinkett was here, we talked about this show needing some new blood, needing some new energy. And you were a part of that new energy. Dean Dorothy Dandridge Davenport, a name we can't forget. Debbie Allen obviously was a big part of that happening. What was that time in your life like and what were you thinking when you walked onto the set of A Different World for the first time?

[Jennifer Lewis]

Well, first of all, back then I didn't watch tv, so I had no idea. I was busy writing one woman shows. I was always somewhere creating Lena. I didn't watch television.

[Unknown]

So you weren't phased by a tv?

[Jennifer Lewis]

No, I wasn't phased by a damn thing.

[Unknown]

Was the role offered to you? Did Debbie offered?

[Jennifer Lewis]

Child offered to. And here's a good story. I just met the woman who Dean Dorothy Dandridge Davenport was based on. Was based on. Her name is Dr. Johnnetta Cole, who was. Who's the former president of Spelman College.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Debbie called me and she called me. She said, I want you to play the dean. And she said she based that character on one of her deans.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Jennifer Lewis]

At Howard. And it was Dr. Johnnetta Cole.

[Unknown]

What were you pulling from when you got that role? Cause she's such an interesting character. You know, it's like there's a really great episode where they're talking about dealing with gun violence.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Y.

[Unknown]

She talks about losing a nephew to gun violence. And she's funny. And there's the episode where you guys are sort of spoofing the election and you guys get to sing. So you had a lot of real estate on that show?

[Jennifer Lewis]

Yes, I did.

[Unknown]

I'm just curious, what were you?

[Jennifer Lewis]

Well, Debbie trusted me with the Material I was pulling from, basically a professor I had at Webster University. She was the dean of students. So when Debbie said a dean, I went to my dean, who was brilliant. Her name was Shirley LaFleur. She was a poet, famous poet in St. Louis, where I'm from.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Jennifer Lewis]

So I pulled from her the compassion that she had for me. When I went walking in her office upset. She loved me how people loved me, because I entertained them and I made them laugh. That was the gift. That was just the gift. I lived, was born to make people laugh. She said this to me, and it has carried me through my life. She said, jennifer, I've observed you. She said, once you've come up with something and they find that out, oh, sweetie, you've gone on to something new. So don't ever worry. Don't ever worry about that. Be flattered by it. You're special. So when Debbie said dean, that's the scene I pulled from often. It wasn't her that had the grandness. Cause, you know, Dean, Dorothy Dandridge, bad.

[Unknown]

She had the list.

[Jennifer Lewis]

She had, yes. She's on my list. She was firm, she was smart, she was wise. The difference pulled up. Very, very pulled up. Debbie let me do what I wanted to do.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Lewis]

She just set me free. I said, is it okay? You know, I was young and is it okay? She said, don't change a thing.

[Unknown]

There's a great blooper. Well, there's a big great, like, bloopers reel of a different world. And you're in there and you get something wrong and you say, am I fired? And she says, honey, you are never fired.

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[Lena Waithe]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. December is my favorite time to slow down. Something about the cold makes everything feel a little softer. Blankets, tea, and just spending quality time with loved ones. There's nothing like wrapping up on the couch, watching the next episode of your favorite show, or sharing a quiet night with the people you love. But staying cozy and comfortable isn't just about physical comfort. It's about taking care of your mind too. That's where therapy can really make a difference. It's not just for when things are difficult. It helps with building healthy habits, setting boundaries, and feeling more centered in everyday life. I cannot stress enough how impactful therapy can be for anyone who seeks it out. And if you're thinking about starting, BetterHelp is a great place to begin. It's all online, easy to fit into your schedule. No commutes, no waiting rooms. You just fill out a quick questionnaire and they'll match you with a licensed therapist. If it's not the right fit, you can switch at any time without extra costs. Find comfort this December with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com LegacyTalktoday to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L P.com LegacyTalk.

[Jennifer Lewis]

The thing.

[Unknown]

We'Re gonna talk about next is a feature and it, to me is, I think, one of the most important movies that we have about one of our greatest icons. Oh my God, yes, Clearly I'm talking about what's Love got to do with it. You play such an important role in that movie. The thing that I picked up on is beyond the lines and like, you know what you're gonna do with all that money. Anime and like, why are these pearls tied around my neck? And the first time we really see you as the mother of a giant. But you're playing probably one of the most complicated mothers I've really ever seen on screen.

[Jennifer Lewis]

One thing I learned in developing a character bring what you are to that moment. You have to bring who you are to the character. Now, I brought. My mother was the oldest of seven. She had seven sisters and I think eight brothers. The oldest of 16. So for Tina Turner's mother, Zelma Bellar.

[Unknown]

Mm.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Who I met, by the way.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Jennifer Lewis]

In a vitamin store, of course, I heard somebody in the other aisle said, aileen, Jesus Christ, what a moment. I was looking for something. It was just some kind of magical moment. And I peeped around the aisle, and I knew it was her because Tina was the spitting image of her. She had the legs and the muscle in her. It was just. It was Tina Turner. And you know how I betrayed her in that movie?

[Unknown]

Right.

[Jennifer Lewis]

I was scared to approach, but I couldn't help it. I walked over to her. This is beautiful. This was a beautiful moment, Lena. And I stood timidly. I said, I'm getting ready to cry. Oh, God. I said, Ms. Bullock. And she turned around, you know, and she turned around with that. Like, who could that be? And she saw my face, and she. This is what she did. She went, oh, I wanted to be so dressed up when I met you.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Oh, my God. Hmm. And only a woman from that era would say such a thing. I wanted to be so dressed up when I met you. And that meant I had done a fucking good job. That made me so happy. And then she invited me up to the house where Tina. The house Tina Turner bought her. She was cooking at the stove. And she said, now, you know all that stuff in that movie. I didn't do all that stuff. And you and Aileen said, mama, you know, you did all that and more. And that was my cue to get out of there. Cause I didn't know what was gonna happen after all of that. I didn't know. I KNEW it was Ms. Bullock and Aileen, and I knew I'd get out of there.

[Unknown]

Wow. So it wasn't difficult.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Not at all. Not at all. Because I brought all of my aunts to Zelma. Zelma Bullock was from St. Louis. I'm from St. Louis. I knew who that St. Louis woman was. Game knows game. And when I saw that script, I said, oh, I know her. I know who she is with the cigarette and the liquor.

[Unknown]

How stunned were you after watching it for the first time? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's how we all felt.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Literally on down to the floor.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Lewis]

That rape scene, that fight scene in the car. No, we hadn't seen anything like this before.

[Unknown]

No, no, no.

[Jennifer Lewis]

And then, of course, that was my mother.

[Unknown]

Right. Can we Talk about poetic justice.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Tupac Shakar.

[Unknown]

You know, you play another very stern but loving mother.

[Jennifer Lewis]

I always brought warmth to those mothers. I owe that to the middle aged black women in America that I was portraying. Yes, we bring the sass. Yes, we bring the intensity and the gravitas. Yes, the gravitas. But black women, and they gonna take care of their kids. Ooh. It's called tough love. She gonna cut you out before she rocks you. And she will rock you to sleep. When she said, boy, shut the fuck up and put the cigarette out.

[Unknown]

Unforgettable.

[Jennifer Lewis]

When you heard Regina King cuss as much as she did, she was brilliant in that. Listen, I had to show the world where those kids came from, the parent they came from.

[Unknown]

What was it like working with John Singleton?

[Jennifer Lewis]

I couldn't understand a fucking. I couldn't understand a fucking thing he ever said. Cause he was so sweet and he would. He was so soft spoken. When I said, boy, shut the fuck up and put the cigarette. You think that line was in there?

[Unknown]

I know it wasn't.

[Jennifer Lewis]

It was not in the script. He laughed so hard. When I said that, was Tupac startled?

[Unknown]

Cause I was the first time I saw it.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Let me tell you something about Tupac. Tupac was a cold professional, baby. He had his lines down. He knew what he was doing. He came to the table and I needed to rehearse. Cause if you wanna know the truth, I kinda knew who Tupac was.

[Unknown]

But classic, perfect.

[Jennifer Lewis]

So I went to his trailer. Cause I wanted to rehearse. I knew he was famous. I knew, you know, I gotta understand. I wasn't listening to all that, what y'all. That anger that your generation brought in. At that time, I was still on Aretha, Honey, Gladys, and, you know, Barbra Streisand, you know. And then I heard all y'all cussing. I was like, oh, my God, what's going on?

[Unknown]

No, you're not talking. Go ahead.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Yeah, so I knocked on his door and one of his, you know, cronies opened the door, and, baby, a cloud of dope came out.

[Unknown]

The good stuff.

[Jennifer Lewis]

I mean, the other good stuff, the green, y'all call it.

[Unknown]

Mm, chronic.

[Jennifer Lewis]

That smoke in my car got high as a kite immediately. So I walked on in there and there were girls, and he was in the back like a king, you know? And I said. I was kind of scared. I said, all right, everybody get the fuck out of here. He's got to rehearse. And he looked at me. I didn't know if he was gonna kill me or Shoot me or what the fuck? He said, I like her, man. Y'all gone. Get out, man. I gotta rehearse, man. And we rehearsed. And that scene, I don't think we did, it was like maybe three or four takes.

[Unknown]

We're gonna go back to TV for a moment. You brought this up already. And I just could not not talk about it. Is the pilot of Friends.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Oh, yeah.

[Unknown]

Which you're in. And I.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Well, it. Wasn't it the second episode?

[Unknown]

No, it's the pilot.

[Jennifer Lewis]

It's the pilot.

[Unknown]

I believe it's from the pilot.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Now, let me tell you how that happened. I had toured the country with a concert. It was called From Billy to Lena with Jennifer.

[Unknown]

And how did Marta Kaufman hear about it?

[Jennifer Lewis]

I love it. Marta Kaufman's husband was my pianist who traveled with me.

[Unknown]

Shut up.

[Jennifer Lewis]

So I just happened to be at dinner at their house the night she announced. They just picked up my show. I said, what show? She said, it's called Friends. And I said, there ain't black people in it.

[Unknown]

There are Christmas movies. And there are what I like to call canon Christmas movies. Meaning it's a movie that you have to watch at Christmastime.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Yeah. Or else it's not Christmas. It's not Christmas.

[Unknown]

Okay. And I'm really honored and happy today to be talking about the Preacher's Wife for an obvious reason in that you play Whitney Houston's mother.

[Jennifer Lewis]

It was magic. She was lovely. She was lovely and she was humble. You know, she wanted my help because we had these scenes. Every scene I had was with her.

[Unknown]

Right, right, right.

[Jennifer Lewis]

What can I say? I was privy to sit there and get chills thinking about it. To watch Whitney Houston, whose voice to me was the eighth wonder of the world. There were only seven back then. But watching her sing the genre gospel.

[Unknown]

Come on, Help is on the way.

[Jennifer Lewis]

What she came up with, it was magic. It was majesty. Just her instrument.

[Unknown]

Can we talk a little bit about Antwan Fisher?

[Jennifer Lewis]

I was doing Strong Medicine. I think it was like the fifth season. You know, very comfortable, not worrying about a gig, you know, making more money than I'd ever made. Loving the role of Lana Hawkins. And they called from Denzel's office. So they said, denzel wants you in San Diego tomorrow morning to film. And I was like, how about you tell Denzel Washington if he wants me to be in San Diego tomorrow morning to call me his damn self? He called. He called with Sally Richardson in tow because she played his wife at the time. And they were just the laughing. Come on down here and have fun. You come on over here and sit next. Come on over here and sit next to me, babe.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Lewis]

I didn't even read the script. I don't even know what it was. I mean, be down there tomorrow. And he said, here's the scene. Just be you. Wow. And I don't think that line was in the movie on this page. It was, you can sit here. No, turn into come on over. Jesus, I cracked myself. Come on over here and sit next to me. Mm.

[Unknown]

When you're going into set, particularly say, like Antwan Fisher, for example, where there's not a lot, there is the goal. Not necessarily to make a meal out of it, but is the mission to be memorable? Cause you always seem to leave us with something.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Here it is. I am honest, I am focused, and most of the time, I know exactly what I'm doing. But no, I don't think. Let me make this memorable. Let me say this with great humility, and I do mean with great humility. When you're given a gift at birth to get the attention of the people and to need that attention. See, I needed that attention because I wanted my mother to love me. Take that in. That's a powerful quest.

[Unknown]

It also feels like you're channeling the ancestors a bit, too.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Thank you. Thank you. I don't go in there saying, oh, let me make this memorable. Lena Wave. I am memorable. Like I said, when I got my star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

[Unknown]

Finally.

[Jennifer Lewis]

The real work was off camera.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Jennifer Lewis]

I know who I am now. I'm memorable because I have a light inside of me that has never gone out. I've given up many times, but I didn't quit. You can't quit what you are. I became the dream.

[Unknown]

Yeah. It feels like you're remembering to carry everything about who you are to the set.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Absolutely.

[Unknown]

And that's sort of what I think is.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Because that's all we have, right. Is who we are.

[Unknown]

You know what's interesting? You are someone that people love to look at in a scene. And that's why this next sort of chapter we're gonna talk about is super interesting. Last night, I revisited Cars, and I remember I was around. Around that time in your life, I think, when Cars was coming out. How differently do you approach a character when we actually aren't going to see you walk across the field?

[Jennifer Lewis]

It's very. It's so different animation from my performances on television. Once again, I am more method, if method at all. On stage, I bring. Oh, God. On stage is where I breathe. It is the breath of life. To me, on stage in animation, you are in the moment. You cannot come out of that character for a second. You know, Gas. I got lots of gas. She was very sure of herself, that character. It was a challenge to be in.

[Unknown]

A booth by yourself.

[Jennifer Lewis]

That's what a booth by myself. Giving a voice to a car.

[Unknown]

Right. Before we get to a very big credit that a lot of people know you for, there was this time where you were always working, of course, and, like, you know, popping up. But I'd love for you to speak to those windows of time and sort of an actor's career or their life, rather, when they sort of have to constantly remind themselves of who they are, even when the world may not be as clear on that definition as you.

[Jennifer Lewis]

When we're not working, it's always. And I guess that's in any career, will I ever work again? What's coming up? But in my case, Lena, I created. I did a show.

[Unknown]

Were you ever thinking about a career you dreamed about?

[Jennifer Lewis]

I've had to ask myself, when a lot of my peers would get the awards and they had their moment on television that I always dreamed of to thank my high school teacher, you know, that moment?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Never had that moment, right. Won many awards, but never had that moment. That Oscar, Emmy, Grammy, Tony. Right now, in my mind, I have them because Jackie's Back is my Oscar. My audible of Mother, Black Hollywood. My memoir is my Grammy. And what's the other one?

[Unknown]

Blackish is your Emmy.

[Jennifer Lewis]

What's my Tony? Oh, my performance that I went later into Hairspray. My Tony. So I have these awards. But I had to ask myself many times, jenny, are you jealous? Whoa. That fucking word. Jealous. The question was, where is mine? That's some painful shit to admit. Where's mine? Where's Miami? Nomination for Blackish? Here's the thing. Yeah, girl, I'm so fucking crazy. I'm so busy doing the work. I don't even think about that kind of shit. I didn't even know I could be nominated because I wasn't in the main. The cast, the original cast. I came on later, so I wasn't even thinking when it didn't happen the first time. Because, Lena, I'm so busy doing. I'm not looking at anything else. I live in the moment. I love life. I love being alive. I was depressed the first 35 years of my life. Very high and very low. A lot of dark rooms, but I never closed the curtains. I was under dark covers. I was under the COVID and dark, but I never closed the curtains.

[Lena Waithe]

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[Unknown]

That's right.

[Lena Waithe]

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[Jennifer Lewis]

I just had a near death accident in Tanzania. I had to be airvac'ed to kenya at a nine hour surgery. Six days in ICU. That was Bette Davis. You, you gotta love me. Six days in ICU, three blood transfusions, 12 days in the hospital. Flown back to the States by Doctors Without Borders. To manage my pain. I fractured my acetabulum, which is the socket that holds the femur in place. Basically, I hit my right buttocks falling 10ft off a balcony at my hotel. And when my right buttocks hit concrete. Jesus Christ.

[Unknown]

As we come to a close.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Oh, no, there's no clothes. I need to finish that one story. What was it first? Not even here, but it left the room. I see you nodding over. You know you falling asleep, that you are snoring. I spent you over here snoring. I'm doing my life. I haven't even gotten to my childhood yet. We haven't even started. So in 1950s, I'm not getting to that today. In 1957, the Baby Diva was born.

[Unknown]

Last but most certainly not least, how did the role that you got on Blackish come to you?

[Jennifer Lewis]

Oh, I was on a yacht in Athens when they called and he said, it's a new show called Blackish. And then they said to play Laurence Fishburne's wife. They had me at Laurence Fishburne.

[Unknown]

Okay, come on.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Lawrence and I on what's Love Got to Do With It? We became sister and brother. Great story. Laurence Fishburne had to do a screen test with Ike Turner's wigs. And that morning, now we had done the table read. Lawrence was very impressed with the things I said about the character. And so we had a connection. And it was a little nasty connection. Mm, Tasty. Once again, ridiculous person. But once again, I had just fallen in love. And I knew his girlfriend at the time, but still, his trailer was right there.

[Unknown]

Temptation.

[Jennifer Lewis]

So the next morning, I always. I am always in a robe. Everybody knows that when I'm singing at the piano on the Internet, I'm in a robe. I'm always in a Robe.

[Unknown]

Nothing underneath.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Nothing naked. So that morning I was at craft service, looking at the breakfast, and he came up behind me. Now we both ignored that little thing that happened at the table. Mmm, tasty. Mm. And he came up behind me and kind of was in my ear. Now I'm naked and Laurence Fishburne is behind me. The only thing separating us was the road.

[Unknown]

Uh huh.

[Jennifer Lewis]

So I turned around. He said, how did you sleep last night? And I turned around as only Jennifer Lewis can. And I said, cause I was just falling in love. I said, well, Lawrence, I was fucking till 3am so I didn't get much sleep. And he cracked up. Cause he knew it was true. And I laughed with him. And from that moment on, we were sister and brother.

[Unknown]

I love it.

[Jennifer Lewis]

But hold on a minute. I wanted to. Oh. And this is true. Cause you know, I'm more aligned in my skin now. More spiritual, happier. The day I became a true star. Mm. Was the day I realized everybody was one. I was forced to be an observer of life. Being in bed for that long. A human being opposed to a human doing. You learn a lot of shit when you observe life. When you hush a little bit. Little loud, Jenny Lewis. When you learn to listen, when you learn to pay attention. God damn. Those are lessons, girl. That's what I'm excited about. Show business is brushing my teeth. Action. Places. Where we going? Who's on? But when you wake up, who are you to even bring into the set, for God's sake?

[Unknown]

Here's my last question. What's your definition of a great entertainer?

[Jennifer Lewis]

Caring about the audience, honoring the audience, loving the audience. All of those wonderful people out there in the dark, knowing you're responsible. So give them everything you've got. And I've got a lot to give. End of story.

[Unknown]

My love, that is a really beautiful definition. And I think you basically described yourself, and I say that because you talk about taking care of the audience, but you've taken care of so many people that have come into your life and into your home. And I'm honored to be one of those people. DJ is one of those people. And the list is really endless. I know you haven't technically given birth, but you've birthed us, you've raised us, and you've shown us how to be not just resilient, but to believe in our gifts. To never forget where the gift comes from and to always honor it. And I think as I watched you before I got to meet you, I see that there isn't much difference. And when you say you bring all of you to all of these amazing characters you played over the years. It's true. It's real. You bring your history. You bring your family. You bring your trauma. You bring your pain. But I think the thing that connects you to us so much is your humor, your ability to laugh through even the darkest hour. And this is technically Legacy talks with Lena Waithe. And I think that's such a huge part of your legacy, is your humor. You've been through so much, but you remind us all to still laugh. Not just the surface kind, but that deep laughter from the pit of our stomachs. And I think it's that ability is that you will live forever. You will forever be a part of our culture, of this industry. So egot or not, you are someone that will never die. And I'm honored to have been raised by you, to share space with you, to laugh with you. I am really, deeply moved to be having this conversation, for it to be recorded, because I want people to come back to this conversation and remember everything you're saying, because it's invaluable.

[Jennifer Lewis]

I want to say one thing first of all, thank you. That was very moving. And it's not easy for me to sit through that same intense love that I try to give, to not try that I give to people when it's expressed back to me. When I passed this plane, y'all ain't got to say nothing else but Jennifer motherfucking Lewis cried power that everybody recognizes no matter how big the fire is. Hmm. You have the power to walk the fuck through it. That's it.

[Unknown]

That's a cut. Legacy.

[Jennifer Lewis]

Oh, legacy.