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- [00:02]
A
Lemonade. All I remember is. I think it was probably the scene we were all sitting there and I reached down and I took out this bottle of liquor. Cognac. The cognac. And all I remember was Ice Cube hitting the floor. Bam. And as a comic, you're like, there.
- [00:21]
B
Got him.
- [00:22]
A
Got him. Legacy. Let me tell you something. Whoever has that tape, there is tape of me in all latex outfit. Because they put it on a STR in the bedroom. And it's just me dancing. Staying humble. Knowing who you are and what you bring. Warm fire. I'm fuzzy. Oh, Lord Jesus. Ah. Okay, I'm ready. I'm back in. I'm back in.
- [00:49]
B
Legacy.
- [00:50]
A
Oh, legacy.
- [00:52]
B
Hi, Kim.
- [00:54]
A
Hey, Lena.
- [00:55]
B
I'm so happy to be talking to you.
- [00:56]
A
I am more happy to be talking to you. And why? Because you talked about doing this. You. And one thing about you is when you talk about do it, I turn around and you do it. That is one thing about you. We were sitting in your living room or something. You was like, yeah, I'm gonna interview some people. I wanna get to know some things. And I was like, uh, huh huh. Next thing I know, bam, here we are.
- [01:17]
B
We are.
- [01:17]
A
But you took a long time getting me here. The whole season. I thought you had to get those icons in.
- [01:22]
B
You're an icon as well. See? And that's. There we go.
- [01:27]
A
There we go.
- [01:27]
B
Okay, there it is.
- [01:29]
A
Icon. Ish. On my way to icon ness.
- [01:35]
B
Look, I would say your body of work is one that is very impressive. And it was very exciting to be going back through the archives, the memories, the characters. And where I like to start these episodes is sort of at a beginning for me, when I first saw someone or sometimes a person's most like, famous project that kind of helps break them into the zeitgeist. For me, the first time I saw you, first of all, was on.
- [02:11]
A
What word did you use?
- [02:12]
B
The zeitgeist. What did I say?
- [02:14]
A
Zeitgeist. I'm Anita Dictionary or Alexa or Siri or something. What's a zeitgeist?
- [02:19]
B
I think the world, the culture, for people to know that you're on the scene.
- [02:25]
A
I like that.
- [02:26]
B
The first time I saw you was on a show called the Sinbad show. And it was a very particular episode where Nancy Wilson was also guest starring.
- [02:38]
A
That's when I met Nancy.
- [02:40]
B
You're. There's a young Ray J in the episode.
- [02:42]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [02:44]
B
And church is really the center of the episode. And really believe in God, if God exists or not. And you play one of sinbad's love interests.
- [02:54]
A
Yeah.
- [02:55]
B
So one, we've talked on this show a lot with previous guests about multicam and that kind of acting. I'm curious, how did you take to multicam and what was it like on the set of the Sinbad show?
- [03:12]
A
Well, that was definitely, we're going to say, early in my career. So I'm nervous now, but I was really nervous then. You try to act like, you know, everything. And multicam is a different kind of energy than, say, single cam or movies. So for me, it was always a fine line of coming off of, say, Beauty Shop and these plays with where you had to be so big you could hit the back of the wall. So I always was fearful in, I guess, with the multicam being too big. Always felt like I heard, Kim, can you bring it down? Kim? Just. So I always tried to find what was that fine line between being funny, being big, and not getting fired. So I would say, and you're on the show. Sinbad was huge then. You know, Sinbad is bigger than Nancy was. All these people. Ray J, I just knew he was Brandy's little brother. You know, pop him in the head and keep it moving. But I believe that was it. It was just. And then I've never been good at anybody's love interest. We can get into that later. But let me tell you something. I've never. Oh, my goodness, you got me telling the truth already. Let's see. I have never been good in a love scene. I has never been comfortable with it. So even I've always been a sexual character on tv. They always pin me to be the sex kid and I'm like, nummy. But it was always difficult, even like with Sinbad to. I would flirt and do all that. But, baby, if they were like, okay, you and Sinbad got a kiss, I'd have peed in my pants right there on the set. I was like, I would just.
- [05:14]
B
How did you deal with that? Just to keep it in this area. How did you push through that uncomfortability while still being able to perform? Wow.
- [05:29]
A
I, like you said, you're an actress, you had to act. And if you look at my scenes, I go through with, like you said, comedy. I can push through if I can be funny, if I have to be serious. So it's a sitcom. And if I could throw a little, oh, baby, you know, and somebody laughs, it breaks it for me, it's not real. But as long as I can affect people and make them laugh, even the, you know, the director and the producers who are Standing around. Then I was okay. I was okay with pretending that I was someone else. Wow.
- [06:14]
B
Well, this leads me to another credit. It's a show that impacted me so many others. I always say it's kind of where I got my personality. Let's talk about Martin. You did an episode where you play a robber. You and some ladies come into a casino called Uptown Friday night. Will you play on Uptown Saturday night? And you come in with a mask on, a black bodysuit, a fly leather jacket, vest, and you rob Cole and Tommy. And y' all take some earrings that belong to Gina, and they have to come to you and your friends. You're also working with me, Cole, Brianna. Yes, yes. And so she's amazing. And you all kind of have to, like, rob these people. And you're dancing and it's funny. I love that episode. I went back to revisit it. You doing a lot of stuff with Jerome?
- [07:13]
A
Yeah.
- [07:14]
B
What was that like? What was it like filming Martin?
- [07:19]
A
See, Martin's another piece of history in my evolution because a friend of mine was, once again, no agent. Jackie Edmonds, who's no agent. No reps. No reps. You know, just getting calls, getting jaws. Jackie Edmonds, who We grew up together. And my dad was like, you call that Jackie Edmonds girl when you get to la, you know, friends of the family. And so I called her, and she was a producer on Martin at the time. She was like, kim, come on in. I'm gonna get you in. And she got me in the first time I auditioned, and I didn't do well. Okay, so now here's another audition. Okay, Kim. Now I'm friendly with Bentley Evans, and people know me. No agent. I come in and Jackie's in the room, Bentley's in the room, and I do the audition. But again, it wasn't good enough. In the middle of the audition, now everybody's in the room, all the producer Bentley stops and says, hold up. He takes me out of the audition into the hallway and cusses me out. I. I was like. Bentley was like, what was that stuff? What was that you did in there? He said, no, I know that you're funnier than that. He said, now you get it together. We're gonna go back in there. And you come back in and you bring what I know you can bring. I'll never forget it. And he went back in. I got myself together, said, no, your beats going in there. And I went back in and I booked it.
- [08:57]
B
Well, what was the difference between what you were doing? You know, that clearly Was not impressive, Bentley, to what you did when you went back the second time in the.
- [09:06]
A
Audition room, probably fear. Fear in audition will shake your being. It will take you out of focus, out of everything. And when you haven't been doing it and you've been in plays and something here and there, this was foreign to me. And I think by Bentley taking me out the room became friendly. I knew I had an ally, I had support. I had cheerleaders in the room. He was there, Jackie was there. And when somebody. It's like you, Lena, that's like you looking at me like, what you doing? I would be like, okay, don't want to disappoint my friend. That's how it is. I don't want to disappoint. Forget the world. These people are taking a chance on me. So I think that was the difference. I came in and I said, let me give it to him. So that became me being the robber and had a ball with it.
- [10:13]
B
What was it like filming and working with Martin Lawrence?
- [10:20]
A
Martin, when I tell you I love this man because you can see the funny. He quick, quick, fun will stop. Say, oh, no, no, let me try it this way. Let's do this. And kind of all the times I've worked, worked with Martin Lawrence, he has always been kind, giving, funny. He won't say, oh, no, don't do that. Like, if you do something funny, that's funny. I'm accept that that's funny. He doesn't stop the comedy. So I had fun with him and Tisha Tichina is a whole nother story with them. But that's when we became friends and I really could see the sitcom world there. All the people working you become. This was new to me once again, another new. But this is a big sitcom. I'm in the big time now. You know, people, this is worldwide. People know this show. So always nervous, always nervous. When you look at now, they're my peers, but at the time, I'm looking up to Tisha, to Sheena, you know, and they're like, come on. You know, it's almost like, come on, little guest star. Come on under here. Come over here. Let's have. We're going to show you where to eat. We're going to show you. We're going to play spades with you. We're going to cuss you out, and then we're going to, you know, we're going to have a good time. But you always are. Make sure you, you know, hit your mark, know your lines. You are a Guest here, they can mess up their lines. You cannot. So it was. It was that kind of process for me. And while I'm working, I did. I wanted to know how to. How do you keep this? How do you grab onto this? How do you get more? How do I become their friends? Because it was like, if I can just get to know Martin and get to know Tisha. But I didn't. That went on about my business. I didn't know how to. Can I have your phone number? And what can we do? None of that. I just was like, just be good that you can come back. I didn't understand that world and how to. To. To. I didn't have a mentor. Like, I didn't have anybody to say, look, this is how you do. This is what you do. How about get an agent, Kim? How about get an agent? That might help?
- [12:48]
B
So you felt like you were on your own, trying to navigate the industry?
- [12:51]
A
Yes.
- [12:53]
B
And do you feel like if you had someone to maybe show you the ropes, that maybe you might have gone further in some way in your career?
- [13:01]
A
Absolutely. That is one of my biggest regrets, that I did not grab onto Jennifer Lewis because I knew her, and I should have asked. The thing is, when you come into this business, for some reason young, you don't open your mouth. I don't know what this thing is. Like, I can do it. I can do it myself. Or fear. Even now, friends are like, kim, you know everyone. I said, ask my friends for stuff. They were like, that's the ask. I was like, so I don't. And I. Jennifer would have been the one to say, hey, how do I do this? Or can you just show me what I should ask for, what I should be doing? I'm reading, going to acting classes, trying to figure out, talking to other actors who are on my same level. How does that help? No, I should have grabbed onto some people. I should have talked to some people. I should have asked more questions. And that's one of my biggest regrets. And I really believe that I would, money wise, talent wise, I think I would have grown and definitely probably been a lot further, faster. You know, it's been a slow burn for me, and I feel like I'm still going. So I think that's the lesson that even now, if you need to know something, call somebody. Like, hey, hey, Lena, look here. They trying to take my money. What should I do? You know, with this contract, you think I should do this part? I still don't do it enough. I called Jamie Foxx one time, and he Gave me some advice and I took it. But that's one time. And how many times can you speak.
- [14:39]
B
To why you don't want to reach out?
- [14:42]
A
I feel dumb. Feel like, you know, that thing in your head, like, I don't want to bother them.
- [14:48]
B
Why?
- [14:49]
A
People bother me all the time.
- [14:50]
B
Why don't you want to bother people?
- [14:53]
A
I want them to. I want our friendship to be intact. I don't ever want to be the person that's like, hey, can you. I always feel like I'm saving it. Like I'm. Ooh, no, no, no, no. When I gotta accept that award or I got that big part, I'm gonna call Lena and I'm gonna weigh it against this other part, But I'm gonna use that one favorite at one time. So I feel like I'm saving for the ask. But look how long. So I've never asked anybody. Crazy. You already know. You don't have nothing to say. Cause you already know something wrong.
- [15:32]
B
It's not crazy. I don't. I think you don't want to be a burden, but you aren't.
- [15:44]
A
Don't look at me with your eyes. I don't like those eyes, Lena. Don't look at me like a. Cause you're my friend. So it's a little weird talking to you like this because, you know, I don't want to be a burden, but I do want to call you and be like, hey, look here, you know something? Because I know what you're going to tell me. And then sometimes I don't want to hear the truth from you.
- [16:05]
B
Why not?
- [16:06]
A
Cause it'd be hard sometimes. Because your truth might not be what I want to hear. Maybe that's it.
- [16:12]
B
Why wouldn't you want to hear the truth?
- [16:13]
A
Because sometimes the truth is. Woo. It hurts. Sometimes the truth is. Sometimes the truth is just hard. If someone said, you know what, Kim, you way too. Back in the day, you way too loud, that would have been like. That would have crushed me. But the truth was, I was loud. I was loud, I was wild. And I didn't know it, I didn't understand it. Till my friends start saying, you a little loud, you a little wild. You at the party, on the table dancing. What was I in front of who? Yes, Kim, you had your butt in front of Steven Spielberg. What did I have it? So that's the kind of thing you. Sometimes you're like, I was having fun. The truth is somebody needs to say, hey, this is how you can do this, you know? Or maybe you should do that. You've had those conversations with me before. We don't even got to go there. But you're like, what you waiting on, Kim? You have. Why aren't you doing your special? All of this in this business? For me, a lot of it has been fear, and that is the. I go and do it anyway. I do it in spite of. Even though it's frightening. I do it in spite of. Oh, got you.
- [17:34]
B
Right?
- [17:35]
A
That's friendship. That's love. So I think, you know, I think that's it. I don't really like coming on your show like this. I don't really like you stripping me down. I don't even appreciate this. There might be some dudes out there trying to holler, and they'd be like, oh, look at her. Look at her little crying self. Might be some actors I need to inspire. Oh, Lord Jesus. Ah. Okay, I'm ready. I'm back in. I'm back in.
- [18:03]
B
Let's talk about the Wayans brothers.
- [18:05]
A
Oh, yes, that's Joy.
- [18:08]
B
You did an episode called Misery.
- [18:10]
A
Yes.
- [18:11]
B
Where you play Marlon's obsessed fan named Phyllis.
- [18:15]
A
Yes.
- [18:16]
B
Apparently, she had a roommate, Cynthia, that didn't exist. Yeah, she's so. And she kind of. It's the first time I've seen Catfishing. You sent a picture of your. Well, you're supposed to be you, but it's a picture of Vanessa Williams to lure him into your apartment. He gets there, you tie him up and do your best Kathy Bates. What was it like working with the Wayans brothers and John Witherspoon?
- [18:39]
A
First of all, every last name you just said, they're insane. They are absolutely insane. And this is, of course, a time, you know, But I wanted this role so bad. There's only a few roles that I wanted so bad. They wouldn't let me do this role.
- [19:00]
B
Who was they?
- [19:02]
A
Leah Daniels was like, kim, this once again, friendship.
- [19:05]
B
I. Amazing casting director Leah Daniels.
- [19:08]
A
Amazing. That's my girl. And we're very good friends. And her husband. And I said, can I go out for this role? I heard about it, and she was like, no, no, Kim, you're too pretty. I said, please, I got to have it. I said, I could do this, and that's dimples are too deep. All that. Oh, I got in trouble for that on the set, too. So I begged and begged. I'm telling you, Leah got sick of me. She got sick of me calling, texting. I think back then, it was a fax machine. I was sending fax. She said. She said, okay, come on in. You're going to be the last person. I said, fine. I spent all day. See, life is different now. I got all kind of, you know, kids, everything. But when you first start, you have nothing but time to figure it out. I went and to, like, the toy store or whatever, and I got these fake teeth.
- [20:01]
B
That's the prosthetic teeth.
- [20:02]
A
The prosthetic teeth. I said, oh, I'm getting this roll. I got me some of that little stuff you put in it. I was. Let me tell you something. I. All night, I slept on it. I woke up that morning and my hair was all over my head. I left it. That little bit of mascara had run down here. I left it.
- [20:20]
B
Come on.
- [20:20]
A
I grabbed this little old frocky dress that looked a hot mess and some old flat looking funky shoes, and I went to the audition, breath stinking everything. Yes, yes. I was into that character. And I sat in the waiting room and I had my teeth in my hand and I had my little paper and was ready and signed it. And I sat there and I remember looking at all the girls. I was like, they not ugly. But, you know, they weren't, you know, she had to. I was like, get this role, you know. I said I'd never forget. She was like, kim, come on in. Ooh. Leah was sick of me. She was sick of me. And we were in the audition and all the producers. I can't even remember the producers, but all the producers were sitting there with my boys. But I knew them and they knew me. They was like, hey, Kim. They all looked at me, I said, hi, you know, the little dimples and smile. And I'll never forget it. I turned her, I said, I'm ready. I turned around, my back to the camera, and I stuck them teeth up in my mouth. One was gold and the rest was crooked, baby. They said that first line and I turned around, they fell out. They was on the ground. Leah was through with me. And I remember doing that audition, and that's when, you know you got it. And the producers did like this. Can you come like this on Monday? He said, I want everything you have. Bring it in. And Leah's like, all right, Kim. All right, Kim. I was like, yeah, dang it. And I remember because when you want something and you feel like, I can really do this, and you show them instead of telling them and begging. But I'm going to show you. I'm not going to waste your time. I'm gonna show you. That was one. And on the set, that damn Marlon. See, every show I've done with the Wayans, they gonna ad lib on you. You got to be ready. So we were having so much fun. Garrett was the director, and we were having so much fun, and he started cracking on me. You know, Marlon was like, I'm gonna take you to the dentist. That's not in the script. And I was like, this, and I'm gonna bite you. Just cut, cut. He said, okay, listen, y'. All. So we just kept doing it, having fun. And then he said, kim, this is great. It's all fine. He said, but every time your dimples show. I didn't think about that. He was like, you gotta find a way not to laugh or even smile. So I had to do the season. I was like, the. When I tell you, we had so much fun, and that's why it is definitely one of my favorite things that I've done. And me and Marlon, we are friends to this day.
- [23:10]
B
I love Marlon.
- [23:11]
A
I love him. I love his whole family. They just. They're really a creative and nice family.
- [23:20]
B
What made you want that role so bad? What made you go for it that way?
- [23:25]
A
I could see myself doing it. I went for it because I saw me in that role. Once I read it on the page, I was like, oh, my God. And I saw the potential of the craziness and the fun, and it seemed easy. There was no difficulty in that role. There was no challenge. It was nothing. I was like, this right here is a walk in the park.
- [23:48]
B
What did you want Phyllis to be?
- [23:52]
A
Oh, I wanted her to be a crazy, foolish in love. Just crazy. Just as crazy as she could be. And in her mind, that was her love. That was her boyfriend. And she had a closet with all the pictures, the cutout, the cutouts. And I wanted Phyllis to be. But I also wanted them to see her humility. I wanted them to see that she just wants to be loved. She crazy. She needs some medicine, and, yeah, she needs to go to jail. But something happened to her, and she just wanted love. That's it. And she chose him to love her, and. And his brother and his daddy and all them, they just ruined it.
- [24:46]
B
It's very interesting talking about this character because you said you feel uncomfortable playing the love interest, and you said Phyllis was easy or she came easy to you. What was it about that character that you related to or that you could understand in order to play her in such a humorous but yet human way?
- [25:07]
A
First of all, your questions are too deep. But I would say that, first of all, there was no sexual tension there. You know, there was nothing. First, he Was going to run from me. Anytime I got close to him, I knew that he would run. So there was no fear of I had to kiss him or anything like that. And for me, I grew up with all boys, so the crazy of the physical and the boy stuff, and this woman, she wants to be feminine. And when you say to me, like, I've always struggled with the feminine side of me, like, you know, just the girly, Everybody's like, you got so much testosterone. But I grew up with all boys, but my mother was very feminine, very demure, very. You know, but I was in a world of boys. And my mother was like, kim, just. Can you just put on the dress? I don't want to put on the dress. I'm going to play football. So doing this character there was that I could be rough, you know, but she still. I want love. So the struggle of both, if we want to get deep into that, that. That would have been for her, that I want to break through this. I want to be loved. I want to be feminine. I want to cook you dinner. I want to take care of you, but I also want to chop your leg off, you know, I want to strangle you. So that. I think that was the fun of it, you know?
- [26:49]
B
Does some of that come from you being tall? Because I feel like sometimes when you're a woman that's slightly taller, I'm tallish. You're tall. Some people say we're tall for women. Does that make it hard to be just to embrace your feminine side or your sensual side? Because women, they tend to want you to be short, petite, small, interesting. And so I'm curious if that maybe has something to do with why you feel not as comfortable in that feminine side.
- [27:19]
A
Well, I think, you know, because of all the boys, growing up with the boys, and I had my mom, but in sports, and I always wanted to impress my dad. So all the boys are playing football. They're doing everything. My dad's going to all their games. I'm playing volleyball. I was like, daddy, you gonna come over playing volleyball? And especially when you get tall and you have big breasts and strong. But also, I think it was also. It is also a protection mechanism. Also. Growing up, I, you know, the tallest in the class, the strongest. I protected all the smaller girls. I know this sounds crazy, but I was more of the, hey, hey, get off. You know, what you doing? You know, so that. And dating. Hey, don't. Hey. You know, because I knew that I had played football and I got brothers, and I would fight you down to the ground underneath the bed. So I think I played with dolls. I did all that stuff, but I wasn't. My mother could never get me in the kitchen. I was competitive. So when I look at that, even in. You're right, the masculine side, even in high school, they had a pie eating contest lined up. Who you think won? Football player. Football player. Me. Killed it. Okay, so that. That thing. And that might be the thing that is the struggle when a scene comes around that I have not been exposed to. Now, if you talk to my friends, they're like, oh, honey, if Kim gets the right one, she turns into a girl. She's so. And it's true. When I feel taken care of and I have a very. Not. I don't want to say a person, but a man who's really. I feel safe with. I don't have to be the one running it. I go, so you need an alpha. There it is, an alpha, but a compassionate Alpha who's. Who is in touch with its feminine side. Right, Exactly. I can't have no whole Alpha because, you know, I've been up in there like, come on. No, none of that. But secure and that I can just go, you know, you feel like I'm safe, I'm good now because I want to take care of everybody. So I think that's when I look at the characters or when these scenes come around. Why is that a struggle to tap into that side? Because I've tapped into the other side for so long. As an actress, you have to be able to tap into something. You gotta be able to tap into that sweet, soft side when you're gonna play that role. But I've been tapping into the. I got this role even, you know, when I had to play sexy and several things. I can do it. I'm. But I also am always nervous because when I go out in the streets, they think that's who I am. Always. Men always think I am the prostitute, the sexy girl. I want all that. And then they find out, baby, I'm not the one you gonna find out.
- [30:53]
B
So, I mean, that's.
- [30:56]
A
This is also a therapy session.
- [30:58]
B
It's a perfect transition to the next project we're going to talk about, which is a movie. And this movie is, some might say, one of your most iconic characters. Now, here's my thing about sequels. I'm not usually a fan of them because I don't always think they're better than the original. And there's some sequels, though, that come along, and I think they build on the original and they also kind of take on their own sort of iconography, if you will. And the movie I'm talking about is Next Friday. I got to revisit that movie. And I've seen it many times. Like many people, it's. It became.
- [31:56]
A
Its own thing.
- [31:58]
B
Even though we know it's a part of the history of Friday. I think, because Next Friday introduces us to so many new faces. Even though your face wasn't new, but it was sort of this smorgasbord of talent and humor. Obviously, there's a young Mike Epps. There's Dae Dae, Obviously there's you and so many others. But Suga takes on a whole life of her own. Yes, there's a term scene stealer, which you are in the movie. But what I love about you is I don't think that's what you're trying to do. I think you are just showing up in this very specific role and you're just leaping off the screen and you're so memorable and you're so funny and you're so specific. I'm curious to know, how did Suga cross your desk? How does that role come to you?
- [33:00]
A
Here we go again. Favors. I was friends with all the casting directors. Kim Harding, who I'm friends with now.
- [33:12]
B
Another great casting director.
- [33:13]
A
Great casting director. And I might have been at a small agency at that time, but I remember saying, Kim, you know, just like the Wayans brothers. I gotta have it. Well, Kim, you know, look, I gotta have it. And I wanted. I don't remember why, but I read it and I was like, I gotta have this sugar. This is me.
- [33:38]
B
Wow.
- [33:38]
A
I gotta have it again. Kim Harding said, come on in. I did it for her. And he said, I'm bring you back for producers because you always have to go in for the casting. People make sure you. She said, I'm gonna bring you back for Ice Cube and everybody. And I was like, okay. She said, but I want you to know, you know, there's other competition out there, you know? And so I remember getting dressed and I'm not comfortable in the little. You know, the little dress and the tight dress. Once again, not that girl. But I'm going to be that girl because I want this role. I put on a big winter coat and I went into the audition again, hiding it. But I see all these little girls, all of them are this big. And I'm like, it's okay, Kim. It's okay. And I was like, that's what they want, you know? Now I'm like, they want the little girl. They want this little skinny girl. But once again, I was ready. I was focused, ready. I had put, I think, a fake joint all down here. I put a little small bottle of liquor. I was ready. I had my big coat on. And I come in the room, and Kim is like, kim Roddy. I was like, hey. She was like, why you got that coat on? I was like, said, I'm ready. You know, Ice Cube and everything. I got this little black dress on, this little tight dress. And I was like, okay. She's like, you want to take off the coat? I was like, okay. And I took off the coat. And we. And Kim, we talk about this. We start the scene. And all I remember is. I think it was probably the scene we were all sitting there, and I reached down and I took out this bottle of liquor. Cognac. The cognac. And all I remember was Ice Cube hitting the floor. Bam. And as a comic, you're like, got him. And that's how I got sugar. And just going on to that iconic time, we, Me and Mike Epps were just on the set of Upshaws together, and we talked about that. I said, you know, I was in your trailer, and we were talking about this. Our first movie was our first thing. Like, we were both. And when I say, kind of nervous, but excited, and we bonded, like, we were like, this is it. Let's go do it. Let's do this. And fun. Just nervous. I had to wear certain clothes, and Ice Cube had to pick them. He played no games, okay? He like, you played no games. I'm gonna see it all. What? I'm checking this. I'm checking that, like, and great costumer. I had to go on Hollywood Boulevard and pick out all this leather sticky stuff and high boots. Remember, I'm not that girl. I was losing my mind. I was like, I gotta put that on. And you gotta dance and you gotta hold dildos. I said, come on. What's the dildo? Like, I gotta do what? Oh, my God. I'm gonna tell you something. If I talk. The things that happened in that movie and D.C. curry, his first movie. Let me tell you something. The things. There's so many things but that one scene. And I say, and a lot of it, you know, Cube let you ad lib. And I wasn't really a standup at that time like that. So if Cube lets you. I remember I turned around to D.C. curry, and I was like, give me something to go upstairs with. Why'd I say that? What? No, no. Put your Arm back further. Yeah, yeah. Why the hell I did like this? And I had to take it. I said, just take it, because I don't know any better. He really hit you off. My first movie. By the third time, no. Cube said, okay, cut. He said, dc, come on. He said, man. He said, we gonna put the sound in later. Remember, it's his first movie. He doesn't know. They had to stop down. I had to go in the back with the costumes. I had to pull all my stuff down to expose my butt blood. You know, those little blood puzzles, Little blood, like, dots all over my behind. So they had to get ice packs to put on my booty. Cause DC Curry was swinging on me, and I didn't know any better. He didn't know any better. It was our first BO and it took a minute, but the swelling went down, and we went back in and had fun. But fun, fun. A lot of craziness, but fun.
- [38:12]
B
What drew you to that character?
- [38:15]
A
I wanted to play funny and sexy. It was a challenge to me, like, because I'm thinking, like, can I. Yes, you look. Ice Cube. He had a fat ass. Was that you? That's Ice, Definitely, I think. What? No, no. In the script, this was. Man, Ice Cube can hold. Let me tell you something. Do you know Ice Cube can hold it? Oh, my God. Anything to break his. Him and Niecy Nash. You cannot break them on screen. I have done everything. And when I tell you I was grabbing him like a man. Do you understand? I was like, I was doing everything I could, and then when I went to lick his neck. None of that's in the script. None of it. You got a fat. And I grabbed it. Oh, he was through with me. But once he got it, we busted out laughing. And, you know, they're like, what's wrong with you? And the things. Even when I say, oh, moneymaker, could you go, whoa, whoa? None of that. Just in there talking. Just talking silliness. And I think that's why the character. I could be sexy. And Kim, like you said, I can. I can have fun, but I get to play this little sex character. Never in my whole career have I been strapped in latex up on a cross thing or whatever I was doing with a whip and dancing. And let me tell you something. Whoever has that tape, there is probably 20 minutes. And I know, I know, Cube, you got it. There is tape of me in all latex outfits, because they put it on a screen in the bedroom, and it's just me dancing, Dancing. Now, that was hard. First of All, I can't dance now. You want. And this was second unit. They shooting somewhere else. I'm by myself in the studio with the cameraman and just dancing and them directing me. I was like, I don't think this is right. Do what with it? I'm not putting it. Nope. I'm not putting it there. I'm trying to dance. And I got these little tiptoes. But after a while, I was like, shut up. Let me get into this. And I have never had to do that since. But it was a good for me. I grew. I grew as an actress. I grew as a woman. I was like, it's okay. You did that. And they clapped. See, I'm always looking for the applause. I don't care what it is. I'm looking for validation. That's what Oprah said. Everybody want validation. I'm one of them. I. All I needed was one of the crew members to do this. I was like, I did that.
- [40:54]
B
Now, it's interesting because you talk about you because a lot of your characters are sexualized and. Or highly sexual, if you will.
- [41:07]
A
Yes. And.
- [41:09]
B
But yet you kind of ran toward it with Sugar.
- [41:12]
A
And.
- [41:14]
B
Did you have any idea how much that character would define you and your career?
- [41:22]
A
No idea. I never. You don't think about it. I was like, oh, this would be fun. Never thought that. Especially after every prostitute role. Every. Get that Kim Whitley. Get that Kim Whitley. So, no, I had no idea that the thing that I run from is the thing they're gonna call me for. The thing that I'm like, no, no, no, no. They're like, come on. I'm like, can I play a police officer? They're like, nah, we need you for that prostitute. So, no, because.
- [41:57]
B
Is it a challenge for you? Why do you think you're so good at it? Do you enjoy running toward that fear and that nervousness?
- [42:05]
A
I do enjoy running to what is frightening. Except for skydiving. Not gonna do that. But when it's something that it's not comfortable, I want to cross that hurdle. Because after I do it, I'm like, oh, that wasn't bad. I can do that again. And once I played Sugar, I really. I'm gonna be honest with you right here, as a little chubby girl, that was the first time I was like, you sexy. You all right. You all right, girl. You're a little chubby, but you all right. That's what showed me I could be all right. I was okay, even though I felt like a tomboy. I was like, look what you did. And look how you affected people. So I was. So when you say drawn to it, I didn't know it would do that for me, if that makes sense.
- [43:13]
B
It does. What was that your first wave of being recognized out in the world, and did you get a lot of fame and notoriety from it? Because everybody was watching this movie. It was like a dvd. It's like a. Your DVD collection, or if it was on tv, you were watching it. It was always on. It's a fun movie through and through. Did you feel that wave that comes with being a part of what ultimately became like a comedy franchise?
- [43:46]
A
Yes. Suga, you know, your career happens so fast that you remember you did that, you're on to the next. But when you go out and people say sugar, even now, I'm sure people are constantly saying sugar. And I'm like, you mean diabetes? But it's definitely one of those staples, that sugar. Yes. But did I think that would be the thing? No, because I always look for what's the next thing. And then the third Friday came out and I missed it and. Which would have made. That would really solidify the character. But I had another movie at the time, so that's another thing that really hurt me in my career. That in my heart, not like my career, but made me sad because I missed the opportunity to do Friday After Next. So do you want to move on in your career? Yes. But you also want to solidify a character that people will know you for because you don't know what's next. You don't know what's going to happen in your career. But people still recognize Suga. Yeah.
- [45:01]
B
I mean, she's so memorable, and you're so amazing in the movie. It's always going to follow you.
- [45:09]
A
Always going to follow me.
- [45:11]
B
But I mean, I'll say this. It seems like you regret not being in Friday After Next. But look at Chris Tucker. He obviously was not in Next Friday.
- [45:20]
A
That's true.
- [45:21]
B
For so many reasons and so many stories surrounding that. But then as I revisited Next Friday, obviously to prepare for this, I thought to myself, oh, wow. He stepped aside to make room for the youths, the Mike Epps, the new comedic voices, these fresh faces that we wanted to be introduced to, not unlike people, were introduced to Chris Tucker for the first time in Friday. So. And also, Suga is such an iconic character and so memorable and so specific, you kind of almost don't want to go back for a second bite at the apple.
- [45:51]
A
Ooh, that's why. Ooh, you right there. That's why I love You a second bite of the apple.
- [45:58]
B
Well, we're going to talk about another important sequel that you're a part of. Another iconic movie. I'll never forget going to see the Nutty professor in the movies.
- [46:08]
A
Oh, wow.
- [46:09]
B
And I remember hearing about there being a sequel. Nutty Professor 2 the clumps, which you are in. What was it like being on that set?
- [46:20]
A
Let me say the clumps, boy, let me. Janet Jackson, Eddie Murphy. Still, you know, young and afraid of everything. But it was interesting. Once again, this ain't nothing but Eddie and Uncle Ray and all of them saying, kim, come get this little quick check. What? Just come over here. Just show up in this scene, do what you do, yell a couple things. I couldn't believe this. How I'm telling you how it works. And the bigger part that I got cut from and they went to a smaller part was the brother's ex wife. And I was supposed to pop out the cake once again because of sugar. All this sexy stuff. Here we go. And then Eddie was like, just come over and do something. Just that kindness. And I remember I was sitting next to Janet Jackson. I was like, I am sitting next to Janet Jackson. And you know, you want to be cool and it's just ridiculous but fun. And watching Eddie. Eddie is probably one of the people that I'd be afraid to really be in a scene with going back and forth. I can handle the Wayans. I could probably handle Kevin Hart, that Eddie Murphy, I don't know, me and him in the scene, going back and forth. I have not done an improv with him, just me and him. That might be one of the things that I would like to do, but that's a little fear right there. He is so funny and such a good actor that all those things and being with him on the set. But the more important thing is that he said, come on, get this check. The residuals that I got from that small little scene were bigger than what I was making on a TV show. And I always think about Eddie and his uncles and all them saying, get Kim. Kim can do that. Let Kim come on over. People always looking out for me.
- [48:20]
B
So interesting. Cause you say you're nervous to be in a scene with him one on one. But how did it make you feel that he called you to come be a part of the movie?
- [48:29]
A
It made me feel seen that Eddie was like, she's funny. Let her come on in here and throw these lines around with us. And I wasn't even a strong stand up then. I don't even Know, if I was doing stand up then. But I hung, first of all, obviously, you see, I was a groupie with everybody. I would go up to Eddie Murphy's office. I don't even know how I knew them, but I was on Paramount lot, just in the office like this. Desiree, you know, Desiree was his secretary. She ended up marrying Blair Underwood. I was part of all that. I would just be up in the bobwhack. All of them. Uncle Ray, all the. Just. Kim is here. I'm just in the. Not working, just sitting around. Y' all need some help? Just trying to be a part of. So I became friends and friendly, and then I started working for Arsenio hall as an assistant. So they all knew me. So they're like, kim, you want to do something? Come over and get this check. Yay. So even at that, I look at how Arsenio is like, now look at you now, you know. So the people that I'm sure that you look at, that we help early in our career and where they go. So when Eddie was just like, come over here and do this. Now I can look back and see, wow, for him, it wasn't a big deal. To me, it was huge. But for him, it's like, let's help Kim out. But the fact that he thought or Ray and them said, can Kim do this? And he was like, yeah. Just being on that set, how it would change me.
- [49:56]
B
What were you thinking about when you walked out of your trailer on that set? Were you trying to create a character? Were you trying to get some jokes off? What were you thinking about when you were on that set with Janet Jackson and Eddie Murphy?
- [50:11]
A
You think of this. What you think about, how can I make Janet and Eddie laugh? But it makes sense in the scene because comics sometimes will get out there and just be like, yeah, the bird was blue. And then, you know, and then he did this on. That has nothing to do with anything. Now they're looking at you crazy. But how can you connect? Look at the scene and where I was always like, oh, I could say something here. I could say something here. So I had put, like, what I like to say is a lot of jokes in my quiver. So if it was time, I just. I can whip it out. It's going to seem like I, you know, I'm just improv in, but I have a lot in there that's ready.
- [50:54]
B
How much time are you spending coming up with those jokes while you're looking at the script to see some stuff that you can ad lib like, how much time are you spending doing that? Are you doing that in your trailer? Or is that what you're doing at home before you go to set?
- [51:04]
A
You do it at home. I call other comics friends, other actors. I'm like, what do you think would fit in this? And what is that funny? If I say that here, just to have it. But you spend enough time and sometimes it never works. Sometimes you don't. Even working with you, I would be ready and you'd be like, all right, Kim, that's it. That was the last take. Lena, I didn't. I want this three jokes, I wanted to say. But you, you have it ready and in your trailer, you come up with things, but sometimes you forget because you're in the moment and it doesn't match. It's not gonna make sense to say that even though it's hilarious. So you spend enough. You gotta learn the lines, understand the other characters in the scene, and then you gotta read the room. You ain't gonna jump on Janet's line now. That's what I'm saying. So other comedians or something, they're going to give you a little room or let you play or something. Certain actresses, certain people you like, that's Janet's turn. I'm not going to say that right there. So you got to read the room. So it's a lot of things that go in that your preparation and on the spot, being ready. Is this the right time to say this? Is it not? Because then you won't be called back.
- [52:18]
B
Are you talking to the director before you go on, just to ask or get a sense of, like, what you have space to do?
- [52:24]
A
Yeah, most of the time I do. I ask the director. Sometimes I've learned that it is better to. What is it better to say I'm sorry to apologize than ask for permission? But most of the time, because of who I am, I always ask for permission. I always go to the director and say, you know, I like to ad lib a little bit near. Near. Would it be okay? But sometimes a director that's going, you follow me? Is too afraid of the head of the star or of the producers. But it's usually number one on the call sheet. So I just got the job. Eddie just gave me the job. I'm not. I don't know if you can do that. So what I have, like I said, you read the room. That they're like, well, I don't know, let's just get the scene. But most directors do this. I always ask this. Can I get One for me. I was like, just give me the last take. They forget. I was like, give me that. Can I get that take? And even the one, the last movie with Eddie Murphy, I was like, I need the last one because I'm older in the business now. I ain't got to know the director. I know who I am. I'm like, I didn't. Let me get that last take. Now you can do it, but being young and new in the business, you know, I'll go to the director and say, is it okay if, you know, I ad lib, I have some funny stuff. And sometimes they'll say, but you know, Kenya Barris, I think even he just hires me and he never gives me lines. I'm like, can I. Can I get the script? Just come on and just do you. Which is a big trust. So that makes me even more nervous, because how do you know you got what it takes to go toe to toe with the Eddie Murphys, the Kevin Harts, the Mike Epps, you know, when you're in a scene with them to be ready. And sometimes it's good and sometimes it fails or flat for me. And then when you see it on the screen, they didn't take the take that you thought was so funny. So what I learned from that is you always got to be good. You can't have a take a chance on a take that's. Excuse me. You can't take a chance on a take that's going to be mediocre. There's so many takes that I'm like, oh, I'm just going to dial this one in. No, you better not. Every take has to be, because they might pick that one. And I've learned too many times I've looked on the screen and been like, that's not the one. The second one was better. I really hit that. So not going all over the place, but doing those movies with those great people. I try to ad lib, but I ask the director, did it give you.
- [55:09]
B
Confidence when you get calls like that from Eddie to say, come be in the sequel to Nutty professor.
- [55:16]
A
It gives you confidence and constipation. Your fear of the features is a lot going on. Yes. Yes, it does. Even when. Well, when people call me and they're like, kim, just. You're like, what do you see in me that I don't see in myself? Even you, you'll be like, kim, do. I'm like, lena, you calling me to do the mama me. You're like, come on, you can do it. Because I Don't see myself as others see me. I still see myself as little Kim playing a little football, being funny. I'm still in this youth. That's why I said, when you say iconic, an acting teacher told me years ago, you're only 17. You've only just begun. Because I had to keep the humility down. So I always had that on my door, that I stayed youthful. You've just begun, and you just be. But I'm not just beginning. So now I have to change the narrative to, you're funny, you're good. And so it's staying humble, but knowing who you are and what you bring. Because if you can see me and say, kim, come do this, I gotta walk up in there like you, Daggone. Right. Lena called me. So there is that.
- [56:46]
B
We're going to talk about another iconic show that's animated. And you do voiceover work on this show. This show meant a lot to me. It continues to mean a lot to me. I was very influenced by it in terms of the writing. It's both smart, it's satirical, it's very biting, and it has a social commentary that runs all the way through it. And I'm talking about the boondocks.
- [57:16]
A
Absolutely, the boondocks.
- [57:19]
B
How did that come into your life, you doing voices for that show?
- [57:25]
A
Once again, the friendships. Kim, come do this role. What? I'm not a voiceover actress. It's come just you can do it. And Aaron McGruder, I became friends with him.
- [57:37]
B
Iconic. Amazing.
- [57:39]
A
Iconic and amazing. And, you know, writers on the show were friends. They'll see something like, oh, Kim Woodley can do this. You know, Carl Jones, Kim Witley can do this. They will call me. And then they started realizing they were like, kim, you know, your voice sound the same on every character. I was like, my bad, my bad. No, they're like, they love their character. So it became a running joke. But they knew I would show up. I'm going to be funny and I'm going to do the job. And I sent Aaron a thank you basket. This is when I what I tell people, you always have to send a thank you. In this business, People don't understand that a thank you goes a long way. I don't care what it is. I probably have fallen off recently, but I've been trying to keep up. I sent him. I took my time. I sent him a. The blackity. Blackedest black basket ever. If I just told you what I actually had in there, I had a durag in there. I had old English oe oe the 40 in there, I had a gold chain. Then I had all this other different stuff. And then I had a medicine bottle with a joint in it. And on this outside, it said break in case of network notes. And I put it in there. And he really. They said they had more fun opening that basket. And that was just to say thank you for thinking of me. So I try to. Because people don't understand casting directors, the producers, a lot of people just take for granted. No, they're feeding your family and they're giving you an opportunity. So I've always. Even if it was a car, anything, just thank you. I send you a thank you. Make sure. Right.
- [59:32]
B
You are the thank you. What is your approach to voiceover work?
- [59:39]
A
Oh, gosh. Another fearful thing. We gonna talk about that. Voiceover work is the hardest thing for me. It is. It's very. It's frightening. Why? Because when you're a voiceover actress, you have to be a better actress than you are in person. Live acting. And I say this because if you close your eyes and listen to animation, you will hear the acting in the voice. I can sit on the set and say, hey, you gonna go outside that door? Cause you could see me saying, hey, you gonna go outside that door? It's entertaining. You're seeing the motion. You're watching. But when a cartoon is doing it and the voice has to get you, you have to be like, hey. Or, hey, are you gonna go outside that door? Like, you have to hit whatever the director is telling you to hit to make it exciting, to match the character. A whole different world. But a voiceover director, they're good. They'll tell you, no, no, take it back. They're fast and quick. I'm like, oh, my God. They're like, don't take it back. When we. If I look back, there's some things. And I tell you that, because when we did that audible, you were the director. It was difficult. You didn't understand my pain and what I was going through. And I went back on audible and I listened to that, and I was thinking, all the other actors were so, so much better. I was like, it's called Kim. Why didn't you voice act a little bit better? One of the hardest things, because my voice, I feel, is pretty monotone. It. A lot of people, like, you got a great voice. I love hearing your voice. I recognize you from your voice. For me, voice acting is difficult. I've taken voice acting classes. I always get a coach. I'm like, help me, help me. I'M on baby shark. I'm the tooth fairy, or whatever I am. They were so kind, but I'm in the booth shaking. Like. I don't know why, but that is a very difficult craft. It just is because you're saying, okay, I'm a tooth fairy and I'm a fish, or I'm a. You know, you're like. And you think about, like, the Cree Summers of the world, these voices who are just dynamic. I shouldn't compare myself to them. You're Kim Whitley. But it is. It's one of the things I have not. I have not mastered, that I'm not over the hurdle of that, even though I get calls.
- [62:18]
B
I mean, you come back to Boondocks multiple times. So what is it that you're bringing every time you go into the booth that has them obviously keep calling you to come back to play different characters?
- [62:30]
A
Comedy. They want people that. That will know timing and delivery. That's what they were. They don't want. They don't care about your voice, really, when it comes down to comedy. I really felt like they brought me back because they knew if I'm in the scene, like with John Witherspoon, even though he might not be right there next to me, they knew that it would match. And I could give that old lady. I don't know what you talking about. You know, you could be those people. And I want to do more voiceover. You are encouraging me now to get my stuff together and just to. I would say they brought me for comedy, and obviously. What did I just tell you, Lena? People see something in me that I don't see. They kept bringing me back to the Boondocks. I have no idea.
- [63:21]
B
Did they give you sketches of the characters you'd be playing before you would do your voiceover work, or would you just go in, be funny, and then would you watch it?
- [63:32]
A
They would give you the lines, and they would tell you what the character is. Very seldom did I see for the Boondocks how the character looked. Normally, that's how it is. But there's levels of voiceover work. Sometimes you have to go in. They have the characters already drawn. They want you to match the mouth. What? So now they've already. I did it recently, and I was like, wait, you. They were like, yeah, we just need you to bring. You know, we're gonna put it in, and you slide in these lines for this character in the voice I've done the proud family, and I had to match because I. Look, we drew the character. We've Already sent it out. Now someone else did it. They lay down the voice. Somebody that works in the office. But now we're gonna put your voice in. Cause you're gonna play the character. That's even harder because the timing and the. So it is a. Ooh, it's a craft. I leave out there sweating.
- [64:44]
B
You do it very well.
- [64:46]
A
Well, thank you. I want to be like you because for so long, people thought I was.
- [64:51]
B
The sound alike, right?
- [64:53]
A
You sound alike in the AT&T thing or something.
- [64:55]
B
It's because we got deep voices. That's what it is.
- [64:58]
A
That's what it is. But you. You. And I try to. I watch you, I listen to you. And I was like, what made them pick? Because that made it seem. Because I know you. You didn't put any effort. You didn't go like, oh, I got a hit this word, and I got it. You were you, and that's it.
- [65:17]
B
But you are you, and that's why you do so much voiceover work. Cause I think your voice is one that is nice to listen to, and I think your humor comes through your voice. So I think that's why people kept calling you back.
- [65:33]
A
I need that. Because that's. I love that. Because you're absolutely right. Then I need people to keep calling.
- [65:39]
B
Me, and they do. Look, we're gonna talk about another really funny TV show. Can we talk about Curb Enthusiasm?
- [65:51]
A
Yes.
- [65:53]
B
The Carpool Lane. I've seen this episode so many times. It's never not funny. You're pitch perfect. And when watching it again, I'm still laughing. I'm still discovering things that I hadn't discovered the other many times I watched it. And it's really hard to have a perfect episode of television. It's just not an easy thing to create, especially a half hour. And the thing about a really perfect episode of television is that you want to watch it again and again and again. And it keeps being funny, and you keep discovering new things about it. How did Monina come into your life?
- [66:38]
A
Monina, that was auditioned through an agency. And I was working on something else at the time. See, honey, let me tell you something. God works things out. I was working on something else, and they're like, we want you to go in now. First of all, let's just see how ignorant I am. You already know I got problems, right? I didn't even know who Larry David was. All I knew is, there's a little white man on tv, and he was funny. That's all I was like, who? That little white man? He's so cute. So I go into the audition. They said, you're gonna go in for this Curb youb Enthusiasm. And they gave me a little piece of paper because you got it improv. And it said, you're gonna be a prostitute. I was like, here we go. I know how to be a hoe, but this is the kicker. I said, I'm gonna get some help. And see, people don't understand. You gotta ask for help if there's something you're not. I'm not a real prostitute. So I don't know how prostitutes really roll. So I went to people who would know prostitutes. Katt Williams, that was my first choice. Katt Williams gave me some lines and prostitute stuff to say. I put it in my quiver. Remember, I got a little quiver back there. I gotta whip out David Koechner, who, you know was on Saturday Night Live. And he lived across the street from me at the time. He had already been on Curb. He gave me some stuff. I had to put it in my thing. Buddy Lewis gave me some stuff. I put it in my little quiver. So now it's time for the audition. And they were like, well, Kim, they're going to have to audition you out of sequence. So no one else had come in. I will be the first one to audition for this prostitute. I said, okay. And at this time, when you start off in your career, you first got to audition for the casting people, and then you go into producers. But now I'm at a level. I've done enough. They take you straight to producers. So I'm in the room. It's the men in the room. I was like. And I'm in my little prostitute clothes. And I was like, okay, because we're out of sequence. And I go in this room and they go, larry David. I was like, oh. They go, the cute little white man, he's sitting in the chair. And I see Sheryl Hines and the rest of them producers sitting around. And that's what was good and a blessing. Because I didn't know who was in the room and I didn't care. All I know is I'm filming on this other set. I got this little prostitute I'm gonna do for y'. All. I done talked to my friends. They gave me some prostitute things. And on the strip, it says, you going, larry's gonna pick you up. You a prostitute on the street. Y' all going to the Dodger game. And the last word is, you know, get the F out the car or whatever. Let's go. I was like, cool, let Me tell you something. I went in there with no fear, don't know who he is. He starts cracking up. They all start crying. I don't know what's happening. I'm just acting a fool, right? With all the prostitute lines. And Larry would go like, what did you just say? And then we did it. And I would act like I'm getting in the car and I would say stuff and act crazy. And Cheryl. And they were over laughing. And then I left and they were like. And they called me and they said, you raised the bar so high that we couldn't. Every time we saw somebody, we couldn't unsee you. And I never, I thought that was real. I was like, larry, thank you. And this is even this real ignorant. And I hope Larry don't watch this. We was on the set. This is what you got to do your homework, people. If you're going to be on the show, watch the show, look at the people, find out, do some research. I'm on the set. He has on the Seinfeld jacket because that's the show he's from. I'm like, why you keep wearing that Seinfeld jacket? I look at him, I said, well, if it ain't on bet, Larry, I ain't seen it. Just ignorant, ignorant, crazy. He just thought something was wrong with me. He didn't care. We had so much fun on that set and we had no dressing rooms. That's when, you know, shows weren't no dressing rooms. Had that been bet, I'd have been cussing out, calling my agent and everything. You so happy to be there. They had one trailer. One trailer. Everybody was in it. Larry's in it, the producers are in it. You had a little room. You better go in that back room, change your clothes in the bedroom and go in the bathroom. Hey, Larry. Okay, hey, let's go. So a lot of bonding, preparation was really just knowing what the scene was about, the characters in the scene and what do you want out of it.
- [71:09]
B
You talked about a couple things. You talked earlier about not wanting to be a burden and not wanting to call people and ask for help. What had happened within you. So that way, at that point when you got that part, you weren't afraid to call Katt Williams and ask him for advice on how to play Moneena.
- [71:25]
A
Ah, because this gonna sound crazy, but at that time, the Katt Williams, the Buddy Lewis, I'm not saying low hanging fruit, but they right there, I can get to them. Kat's my friend. I can call Cat or I'll See him on the set or whatever we were doing. Buddy. I always call Buddy Lewis. Dave Koechner's my neighbor. There was no burden because they were in my somewhat circle. So calling them was just like, hey, you wanna go to the comedy club? What you doing? I think that's why when I have to go out of that immediate circle, even with like Jennifer Lewis, even though we've been friends for years, I'm like, oh, I don't wanna bother her, the bird. Oh, Lena's right. And she probably working on something. You know, that's the thing. Because I'm not as everyday connected, knowing what somebody's doing don't feel like a burden. So I felt like Kat is right there, Buddy's right there, Dave across the street. So I think that's what happened.
- [72:31]
B
You also talked about walking in there with no fear, but how that's something that you actually ran toward earlier in your career. What had happened to you up to that point where you had less fear walking into that room than you would have earlier on in your career?
- [72:48]
A
Good question. I had been on the stage and started a room called at the Haha Cafe. Whacked out Wednesdays. This was a Mexican restaurant. And now it's a full fledged comedy, just a comedy club. And I started that club with Buddy Lewis. So it's two people on stage every night. Every celebrity, every comic had been through there. So my improv skills were sharp. I had gone out for MADtv. That's a whole nother story for another day. But I had gone through the whole thing when they said this was an improv show. Let me have it, let me. I want that. Because learning someone else's lines is more difficult for me because I have to study, I have to know where the writer is coming from. I have to memorize the lines, all of that. You gonna give me a scene and just let me say what I wanna say. Please let me have that. And I think I ran to that for that freedom.
- [73:52]
B
I was gonna say, why do you. Do you prefer improv over scripted?
- [73:57]
A
Absolutely. Improv for me is way easier when other people are like, oh my God, I will take an improv scene if you give me where you the start, the middle and the end, I'll get you there. It's way easier than learning lines.
- [74:16]
B
Wow. And looking at the episode, a thing that strikes me other than obviously you being brilliant and it being hilarious and the episode flowing so nicely is that you guys seem to be really at a Dodgers game. Are you at an actual game for the filming? Of the episode.
- [74:33]
A
Let me tell you something that Curb youb Enthusiasm. We were at an actual Dodgers game. We had 400 extras and they just filled in our area. And I know we were at a real Dodgers game because we're filming and someone says, hey, Kim. I was like this. And I couldn't explain why I'm with this little white man with this little outfit on. I never forget it. They was like, kim. I was like, cause I couldn't. We're filming and I'm trying to. And I think I just waved them off or something. I'll never forget it. I was like, oh my God, people. My friends are here. And they probably later on was like, oh, she was shooting something. And I love Larry because Larry goes, he's with it. And we are in this scene and doing. Because my girlfriend was with me from out of town. As you can see, I like an entourage. She was in the scene too. If you look closely, she almost next to me. I was like, girl, just find a seat. Oh, we had a ball. And we are watching the game. And from that episode, once we went through, I remember I went back to do adr. That's when, of course, if you wanna, we have to, you know, do our voices again. And Larry was like, kim, you know, we gotta get this in. There's a guy who's up for murder. I said, come on.
- [75:55]
B
That's right.
- [75:56]
A
Yes. We saved a guy's life because he was at the real Dodgers game with his daughter. They didn't believe him until that show came out. And thank God to that PA who let him. You know how they stop you when you're filming? They're like, no, no, you can't go. They're filming. And he was like, okay, go ahead. Just because he said that. They caught him in the shot, going down to sit down. And he won his case. He didn't murder his girlfriend. But that whole. That thing was just iconic in itself. And being at a real Dodgers. I had never been to a Dodgers game in my life.
- [76:31]
B
First time you go with Larry David for Curbing Enthusiasm as a prostitute.
- [76:35]
A
Big old clunky heels. Oh, just a hot mess. Fun, funny. Larry is just that. Larry David. Let me tell you something. I wanted to kiss him in the mouth. I know sound crazy, but I did. I fell in love with him three times. I was like, Larry David, I wanna kiss you in the mouth. Just cause he is exactly who he is. Like that character's real. That is him. That little Prius we was driving in. I think that was Larry's car. I'm telling you, it was the craziest. He was like, come on, Kim, we gonna get on the freeway. I was like, but today, Larry, we don't have a rig and the van following us in security. He was like, ah, we gotta shoot it. Larry was gangster. We got in that car with them cameramen. They was all squished up in the seat. It was fun, just fun.
- [77:21]
B
And during that filming, did you ever think that it would become one of. Probably the most. One of the most famous episodes of that series?
- [77:28]
A
No. I would have never thought playing a prostitute with Larry David would become so iconic. And had I known that, I tell you, I'd have pushed my titties down a little further. They was too up. They was up in my chin. I said, larry, do I have to wear this? I'm telling you, it was so tight and so uncomfortable. I was like, larry, I don't. I think Larry was like, yep, look good to me. I was like, I can't breathe. I said, cause it was the worst. He was like, yep, that looks good. Because he want you a prostitute on the street. You not Kim, being cute. Let's go.
- [78:03]
B
You're so good in that episode. You're so good.
- [78:05]
A
That was fun.
- [78:06]
B
Now here's. This is a first on our show. This is. We're gonna talk about it. Another TV show that I think is pretty good.
- [78:17]
A
Okay.
- [78:19]
B
I've never talked about my own work on this podcast. It hasn't happened until today. I know. So we're now going to talk about Master of None, and we're going to talk about the Thanksgiving episode.
- [78:38]
A
Yes.
- [78:40]
B
You know, it's interesting because normally at this point in the interview, I would ask you, how did this role come to you? I know the answer.
- [78:51]
A
Tell it. You should tell the people how the role came. Cause you was fussing at me, and I didn't believe in you. Tell them. Tell them how the role got.
- [78:57]
B
Well, these interviews sent her the guest. So I'm gonna ask you to tell us about how you got cast on Master of None. Well, that's Joyce as Aunt Joyce.
- [79:13]
A
Aunt Joyce. A friend of mine called me, and her name was Lena. And no, this was crazy because you told me in advance, like, hey, this role's gonna come up. I'd like for you to do it. And I was like, you sure? I said, no, no, no. You were like, no, no, you gonna do this role? It was just like, this is for you. And I was, like, a little nervous. Cause then you told me, like, Angela Bassett. I was like, I Can't be in no scene with no Angela Bassett. You were like, kim, you're gonna play my aunt. Da da da. And I always looked at you as a little young writer. Like, look at Lena. Look at little Lena doing a little stuff. Right, right, right, right. Look at Lena. She doing her. Lena doing her thing. She acting. She acting and writing.
- [79:58]
B
And her dreams are coming true.
- [80:00]
A
Look at her dreams coming true. And I remember you saying, I was like, I'm gonna go help Lena. Look at that. I'm gonna go help Lena. And I got the role. Could you put me in the role? That's how I got it.
- [80:16]
B
And you didn't audition.
- [80:17]
A
I did not audition.
- [80:19]
B
Didn't have to.
- [80:19]
A
Didn't have to audition. Cause Lena was like, come do this role. And I was like, okay. And it was another fun role. It was. See, another role that I would have loved to audition for. Because, first of all, the show master of none, of course, and Aziz and you and all the people, that type of show was serious and funny. You got the mixture of both. But the storyline that you were telling was fascinating, that you were gonna. And it was gonna be a timepiece. So it really had all the elements of something that I would want to do. Excited and afraid because it was little Lena. Like, I didn't have the. I was excited. See, once you became my boss, it's a different kind of fear, like 20s and all, that I'd be like, oh, God, I can't disappoint Lena. Then I was like, I'm gonna make Lena laugh. Lena go. It was a different kind of thing. But being next to Angela Bassett, let me tell you something. I think I peed three times. I was like. Until I found out that she was another actress just like me. We had our fears, our doubts, what we walk in our power. So what I learned on that set was so many things, and the director, it was. It was really a. For me as a comic who does fast and sitcoms and always funny, that I was allowed to be serious, to make mistakes, and then to be free and to sit next to Angela. And Angela, tell me a couple things, like, girl, honey, you wait today. Da da da da. I was like, for real, you know? And she was like, oh, yeah. I had struggled with that also. So we talked and we. And found out things about each other as actresses that empowered me. And still to this day, things that she told me at that table empower me as an actress. When I go from set to set and I'm like, you know, you look at great actors and they have the same struggles. We all go through this stuff. So that scene and when I got to yell at Aziz. Do you understand that Made Monday without anyone saying cut. Kim, don't do that. I was like. I was like a little. I was like, they liked it because that's that freedom that it fit in. It fit that. That line just fit right there at the time in real. Like we really. At the dinner table, and that's what would happen. So to see, I just look at you, and you were so. I'll be honest with you. I know this is my interview, but I look at you from master of none, and you were little Lena, and to see you grow up, that's what I feel like. You went from there, and then you. You know, you got your Emmy and then you went. But you grew up as a actress. You went from a producer and a writer and all these things. I was like, that's little. You was little Lena because you was having so much fun on the set. You were helping us and fun. And you were not the boss. You were the actress and the direct. Like, you were helping, and you were the producer. You were the actor and the writer. It was everything. And then to turn around and to work with you, I was like, how this happens so fast? What's she do? And you wore a different hat. It is fascinating because when you live it, if I'm on the set with you and I live this journey with you, it empowers me even to say, okay, that was you then. That was in that season. But where are you going? What is next? And I think that's what it is to have fun. Like it was for you on that set. For you, I felt it's like you had your family. It's like you told all of us, hey, you wanna come play? Come on, Angela. Come on, Kim. I felt like you handpicked all of us because it was so easy and fun. So let me thank you for that.
- [84:51]
B
Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you. I needed you to play that role because that character is my mom's friend. And I remember really having a lot of admiration for my mom's friends and thinking of them as aunts and looking up to them and getting excited when certain friends were coming over to visit her. But I would come and kind of sit and try to ear hustle, and so I feel like you remind me of my. The favorites that I had at my mom's friend group. And that's really why you sit so well in that role, because you're there to Support Katherine. Yes. Through this journey that she's on as her daughter is telling her that she's queer. And seeing you and Angela.
- [85:41]
A
Yes.
- [85:41]
B
At the dinner table with myself and Aziz and all that stuff. But seeing you and Angela in those scenes where it's just you two and you all are talking and you're having those conversations, I think it's those scenes where I'm not even in it, Aziz isn't there, and it's just you two being women, trying to figure out, how did this happen, how did we get here, what are we doing? But what I also love about your character is that she's supportive of Denise and she's trying to tell Katherine this isn't crazy. It's not that weird. It's not your fault. Nothing to do with you, not, you know, staying with her dad. And my mom had friends like that. And I think you really represent those aunt moms, those women that come over and hang out and don't judge the children because they see them through a different lens. And I think also those Aunt Joyces of the world see Denise's as people rather than the way Katherine sees Denise, because Denise is an extension of herself. And you met Denise as a person as a kid. You obviously, you know, we start at the top with their children, so you get to just see Denise as a person. And I think in our real life, you as Kim, see me as a person. And you are like an aunt. You always say I'm your niece and, you know, you're Aunt Kim. And I think that's why it worked, because we really didn't have that much acting to do. We were reciting lines, but I think our genuine love that we have for each other. And then this is my first time meeting Angela, Ms. Angela and working with her. And I remember asking you if you had ever worked with Ms. Angela before. And you hadn't, but you were friendly.
- [87:19]
A
Friendly, yes. We knew each other. Yeah.
- [87:21]
B
And so you said you were excited to work with her. And I also want to mention Malina Mitsoukis, my sister from another Mr. She directed us so beautifully, and she, to me, I think, is one of the great directors of our generation. What was it like being directed by Melina?
- [87:40]
A
Easy. Melina was once again kind and her vision. What I liked about Melina is if it was something she didn't think that would fit the scene or wasn't right. She wasn't like, oh, you know, she was like, you know what, Kim? We'll try it later, but let me get this shot first. But you know what? I'm gonna think about it. You don't want to do it. But she was. But her visionary. I think that's what it was, her vision. And I'd say that even though I was being directed by her while I was in the scene, it was. Once I saw it, that's what made me really get the respect for her. Because when you're being directed and you're in it, you can't see the whole thing. But when I saw that whole episode, I said, oh, oh, that's what she does.
- [88:35]
B
The crane shot.
- [88:36]
A
Yeah.
- [88:38]
B
Hello.
- [88:38]
A
Right. The diner shot. I said, okay, I see why sometimes I see people. And I was like, I don't know why they hired that director, but I said, oh, I see why now I.
- [88:51]
B
Want to talk about a show that could be considered children's programming and also had, you know, I think, taken away too soon, I would say, as well as the person who was the creator of the show. That girl Lele.
- [89:07]
A
Oh, I know. Ah, Ah. That girl lay lay. And David Arnold. Yeah, David A. Arnold.
- [89:18]
B
David A. Arnold.
- [89:20]
A
Our guy.
- [89:20]
B
Yes, our guy. May he rest.
- [89:22]
A
Yes.
- [89:23]
B
He's smiling down right now.
- [89:24]
A
He is. He was like these two to getting together, talking.
- [89:28]
B
Well, I know him. Knew him.
- [89:31]
A
Yeah.
- [89:31]
B
Because of you. You introduced us.
- [89:33]
A
Yeah.
- [89:35]
B
And he became a huge presence in my life.
- [89:38]
A
Yes.
- [89:39]
B
And he is someone that we both miss every day.
- [89:44]
A
Every day.
- [89:45]
B
And still can't believe he's gone. But you got to work with him on his show. That girl Lele. What was that phone call like from him?
- [89:57]
A
The truth. Let me tell you something, David Arnold will call me and say, okay, I got you. Just like you. I got you this part. But I was disrespectful to David, not to you, David. I'm like, david, what is it? You know what? He was like, you gonna play this hairdresser and you gonna this and that. I was like, all right, send me the script. I'll be there. What day is it? Let me look at my calendar. I was so disrespectful to him because, you know, we were friends. Friends. I was like, now, and you know me. I was like, how many lines I got what I got to do? So look, hold up. I gotta get this leg up here.
- [90:24]
B
Oh, yeah, come on.
- [90:25]
A
Felt uncomfortable.
- [90:26]
B
Uhoh.
- [90:26]
A
I want to look at the thigh out. Get that look right there. Okay.
- [90:30]
B
Ombre.
- [90:31]
A
The ombre. Thigh. I got to have that. I wish I had a little booty hanging off a little bit. So. No, ain't nothing there. Okay. You know, it Was. It was good, you know, when your friends, you know, call you and they got a gig for you, as always, because you want to go on that set and you want to be disrespectful. You want to not know your lines, you want to give them a hard time and you want to have fun. Because that's what I did. I'm like, I don't feel like doing the line right now, David. I'm going to get some coffee. So that experience and there was another. I was sick. I think I had Covid. They called me in again the next season, and I swear he said, you're playing a kangaroo. You know, I had to cuss him out, right? I said, ain't funny. He said, yep, we got you in this kangaroo outfit. I was like. I was like, I don't want to do it. He said, you're going to play this kangaroo, you know, David. Oh, you gonna play this kangaroo and you gonna like it. So I was very, first of all, just happy that he had a show on the air. He was such a hard worker.
- [91:31]
B
Yeah.
- [91:32]
A
Stand up. A show. He was a creative. And far as my standup now, David got me really to where I am. You know, I think about the Buddy Lewis pushed me through. And then David, we went on the road together.
- [91:46]
B
He said, she said.
- [91:47]
A
He said, she said. And he said, I need your celebrity to get me in the clubs, but you will grow as a standup because you're in the clubs. And now I'm a very strong stand up because I did that. Because he did that.
- [92:00]
B
I remember coming to see y' all in the valley.
- [92:03]
A
Were we in the Valley?
- [92:04]
B
Yeah.
- [92:04]
A
Oh, my God. That was really early on, wasn't it?
- [92:07]
B
Yeah. And then that was before I, like, kind of got to know him well. That was. Yeah.
- [92:11]
A
Oh, good. Because I would go on stage, he would go on stage. But then the fun was when we went on stage together, right? And that's. Oh, God, that was just fire.
- [92:20]
B
What was it like being on that set with him of that girl Ailey?
- [92:25]
A
Being on the set with David is fun. And, you know, it's a bunch of kids on the set, right? Easy. It's it. When you're on the set with your friend, it's easy. All the writers, because it comes from the top, just like you. They're like, oh, that's Lena's girl. They ain't gonna give me no problems. I'm Lena's friend and I'll throw it out there. I'll be a craft service. I'll be hey, look, I'm gonna take all the pickles. I'm Lena's friend. That's what you do. So with David, you know, it was his show. I was so proud of him, and I think it was a big deal. I think that was it. I would. Where's your office, David? I'm gonna go in there, I'm gonna steal some paperclips. So, you know, just. You do. You're proud of your friends, but you do wanna use it. You wanna use it to your advantage. You wanna walk, you know, you walk around like it's on your chest, like, I'm David Arnold's girl. Yep. He gave me the part. I'm a master nun, Nina. Yep. She called me. It's a thing. We can't help it.
- [93:31]
B
Wow. So true.
- [93:33]
A
And you want to do good for your friends. You want to be funny, you want to do well, because if someone else hires you, it's a job. You want to do well. Yeah. But when you have a friend attached, because you're going to hear about it for the rest of your life, Remember that time you came on the set, you didn't know your lies and you was horrible or whatever? So you want to be like, yeah, you killed that, and you killed that for me. So even with you, you want to be good. Then you look and you're like, she got an Emmy. Because you want your friend to shine, so you want to be good.
- [94:06]
B
Yeah. We're going to go to another TV show of mine.
- [94:10]
A
I didn't notice how pretty your eyes are until now. You got a great smile. I never looked at you like this. I never had to look at you this long. You just as cute as a button.
- [94:18]
B
Okay, I thank you. I can return the favor. You're as cute as a button as well. Come on, dimples.
- [94:24]
A
Thank you.
- [94:26]
B
20S, how did that role of Hattie's mother come to you?
- [94:35]
A
20S? Oh, that was a hard audition. Okay. 20s, once again, Lena not audition at all. I did not audition. Lena. You called me in for that role. A scary role. Very afraid to do it.
- [94:50]
B
Why?
- [94:52]
A
When you have to portray a real person, it's very scary. Even portraying your mother, portraying Kanye West's mother, you. It's. That's because, first of all, the mama is still around. The mama could be, like, looking at TV like, that ain't what I do. So there's all that fear, like you're saying. And you. You know, Lena, what I'm supposed to do, and you're like, just. Just do you do this and that? But you're you're, you're afraid. It's not like comedy. I'm just coming in there. You're portraying a real life person. That is some weight on it right there. Because not only you don't want the person saying horrible, but you have to bring levity to it. You have to bring, you know, you could be funny, but you also have to bring what they have if they have the empathy or the whatever it is. And it's. Oh, I hate it. When you were on the set, I didn't want you looking at, not near camera.
- [96:02]
B
Why?
- [96:03]
A
Cause it was a lot. It was a lot. You made it hard for me. I don't even want to talk about it right now. You had me at a table with this real artist thing, and I had to portray the artist.
- [96:11]
B
Mary Mae Weems.
- [96:12]
A
Yes.
- [96:13]
B
Inspired by her photography, her table series.
- [96:17]
A
So it's artistic. You got. Listen here. You didn't just say, come to the set. You're going to be in this scene. I'm in a real life piece of artwork that you're centered. Yes. And I have the things that are in the picture. So that it, it's, it's something you've never done. You know, I've never done that before. And just trying to understand the tone, you know? You know, even if I'm yelling on the phone or being funny, am I supposed to be like this? Should I be a big. And so you didn't really know. And then you were so busy at that time, I didn't know if you was on the set. You was on your other set. I didn't know. So I couldn't be like, hey, you know, what is it? Because I have to trust your directors to lead me. But I would say Master of None was fine. It was fun. But when you put me on that 20s, that was heavy for me, almost like the love scenes, that kind of thing, I was a little, A little more pressure because it was somebody's real, real mama.
- [97:30]
B
How did you work through that while going to set every day?
- [97:41]
A
Really talked to JoJo a lot.
- [97:44]
B
Tanika Gibbs.
- [97:45]
A
Yep.
- [97:46]
B
Played Hattie.
- [97:47]
A
That's right. Knew my lines, had an acting coach.
- [97:54]
B
So you decided to work with an acting coach because of this gig, or is that something you would do regularly.
- [97:59]
A
Because of this gig? No. If there's something I'm not comfortable with and what I should do, I get an acting coach to work through it.
- [98:07]
B
What did you. What were you able to. To glean from those sessions.
- [98:14]
A
To try to keep, keep it grounded. That's the Thing I, you know, because of the comedy side of me. How do you keep this woman grounded, especially when she's coming to your workplace? And I came in town and I was like, ooh, you can't be all big Kim. And, you know, that was the thing to really work on, to bring it back. Bring it down, Kim. Bring it grounded. To feel your emotions as a mother. That. Yeah, that's because you have this thing in you. That's my normal natural go to. Is comedy comfortable? Easy. Boom, bam, hit it. But when I have to take the thing and rein it in, it's literally inside me, and I have to pull down. And it's not about when you want to be grounded. It's not about bringing your tone down. You have to bring your emotions, your. And I say grounded. If I'm coming in as a mother, am I upset? What is the reality of this? That you have to play it to be believable. And I always think about the other actor, that even if the camera's not on me, I gotta give her something to give it back to me on that. A lot of people. Some people don't do that. But I found in the scene that the better she was, the better I was. And vice versa, if I give it to her and make her understand it. So spending time with her helped. Even if we were on lunch break, hey, let me hang out when we come in the dressing room so I can connect with her.
- [100:16]
B
And was that you sort of pushing for that? Just to spend that extra time with Jojo. And how did that help you in the scenes?
- [100:24]
A
Because I needed to know her as a human. Her vulnerability, who she is, and also to. This is gonna sound crazy. Also to get the judgment off that I am connecting with her and not in my head. And the ego, oh, this actress is judging me. No, I know her now we know each other. We are gonna exchange these energies and exchange these emotions. And what's interesting, people don't know, we don't have a lot of rehearsals before you say action. We're gonna have one rehearsal. You better connect. You better get it. So if you can spend time with the actor before you come on the set a couple times, it makes it a lot better. It really helps in the scene for me because now I'm. I don't worry about the camera. The camera's not there. It's just me and you.
- [101:27]
B
Yeah. And, you know, you're working alone a lot in the series where you're at the table on the phone, but you're always. So it's interesting because I think you're one. I think you're stunning in the series. You're so amazing and beautiful in the show because you're playing so many things. You're playing loneliness. You're playing a mother who I think wants to be closer to her daughter and trying to hold on to her even though she's finding her own voice in life and community. And you're single. It feels like there's not a romantic person in your life. And we are, you know, Justin Tipping. Shout out to him. He really did want to frame you in the ways in which Carrie Mae Weems would in her photography series. At the table.
- [102:28]
A
At the table.
- [102:28]
B
And you're always at the table. Sometimes you step out from behind. There's the episode where you and Hattie are supposed to go see Anita Baker and she stands you up and you go alone, and you're still on the phone with her. I think you're just. It's a really stunning performance. And every time you pop up in an episode, you just feel like you belong there. And I'm really grateful to you for bringing all that you are to twenties to the show because I think the reason why all of us call you or ask you to come is because you're fun to be around. You're fun and you're talented and you're beautiful and you're funny and that comes through on the screen. But on set, you're such a good energy, such a good person, and you're like a warm fire. People want to be around you. And so I'm just grateful to you for making twenties what it is. And it wouldn't be the same without you.
- [103:31]
A
No, I appreciate that. And. And I tell actors coming up now, you might disagree, but what I tell them is I say, you know, I work all the time. People are like, why do you work all the time? I said, it is 80, 90% personality and kindness. I was like, It's 10% talent. They're like, no way. I said, you have to understand. And I say, I'm not who, I'm who. The thespian. And I'm not the best actress out here. I said, but I get work. I said, because I bring a light. I love people. I'm not burning bridges. I'm not negative. I'm trying to do my work, have a good time. Because this too shall pass. This is life. These are memories. These are all the things I said. These actors, you come in, you become divas for what said, you're not going to have a Long career. And that is always my message. I didn't realize that, but I was like, I had to start looking at that. And you just solidified that for me. A warm fire. That's what I'm getting. A shirt. Warm fire. Fire. I'm fuzzy.
- [104:51]
B
This is something else we worked on together.
- [104:53]
A
Oh, Lord have mercy.
- [104:55]
B
And it was audio only.
- [104:59]
A
Oh, yes. This, This. I tell you that. Lena, wake Kim. You done fed me for a long time. Yes.
- [105:07]
B
Kim, referring to Kim the series. The podcast series. You and I have been sitting at a table for many years talking about your life, and one of the most significant things, I think, that happened in your life was that you became a mother in a very unorthodox way.
- [105:28]
A
Yes.
- [105:28]
B
In that you adopted your son, Joshua.
- [105:32]
A
Yes.
- [105:33]
B
Not because you were looking to adopt a child, but we like to believe that God.
- [105:39]
A
That's right.
- [105:39]
B
Brought your son.
- [105:41]
A
That's right.
- [105:42]
B
To your life. And the way in which your son sort of landed in your lap, we both thought was something that we should write about. Do you want to talk briefly about the. How Kim the series came to be?
- [106:04]
A
Well, Lena, you've been interviewing me for years. I remember you came over to the house and you were like, let's talk about this, your life and how this happened. And we're gonna. We're gonna do a show about it. We're gonna. So I wanna say, for years, it felt like you. You would come and say, hey, we're gonna do this. What did I tell you? When you say you gonna do something, you do it. You said, you're gonna do this, and now here we are. Look at me being interviewed. Is it legacy? Yeah, I'm a legacy. Okay.
- [106:29]
B
Legacy talk.
- [106:30]
A
Legacy talk. That's why we. That's why we talk real, like, serious, because it's a legacy talk. Okay? So, Kim, the audible on audible. And when I tell you this Audible series won awards. We were top. In the top 10 in Vanity Fair. When I tell you, you came and said, let's do your show, and we're going to do it in a podcast style, an Audible series. And I'm like, how you gonna. How you gonna do that?
- [107:02]
B
Shout out to audible.
- [107:03]
A
Huh?
- [107:03]
B
Shout out to audible.
- [107:04]
A
Oh, it's audible. Thank you. Like it. I didn't understand. I was like, how you gonna do that, Lena? You got your writers together, you got your scripts together.
- [107:13]
B
Shout out to Mark Brown.
- [107:14]
A
Mark Brown. Love him. Then you said, let's cast it. What? And we're like, wait, are you serious? It's so crazy how things happen. Eight episodes Was about eight episodes. Kim Kym. The story of a single actress getting a child and all her friends helping. And the fact that Sherri shepherd came on and played my best friend. And we sat in the studio, I don't know if it took a week or two weeks voicing over these fantastic scripts.
- [107:58]
B
David Arnold. Jess. Hilarious. Cynthia Erivo.
- [108:02]
A
Yeah. Myself, just to name a few.
- [108:05]
B
True.
- [108:07]
A
This series. People are still saying, where is the next season? People loved that because you go to audible and you hear books. You don't go to audible and can like, it's like old fashioned radio, right? It's a show. Like you're in your car or wherever and you're listening to these episodes and you're like, what happens next? And David, Didn't David play Big T or Big?
- [108:31]
B
He played your love interest.
- [108:32]
A
My love interest. Oh. And I fought against you, remember? I was like, mm, mm. I don't want David. Right.
- [108:38]
B
Cause y' all were in a fight.
- [108:39]
A
Oh, that's right. We were in a fight, weren't we? Thank God you remember everything.
- [108:43]
B
I do.
- [108:43]
A
And I felt bad about that. When he passed away, I was like, did I apologize?
- [108:47]
B
Yeah, you did.
- [108:48]
A
I did, didn't I? Thank you. So all my friends were in. Was amazing. I think we need to bring back a second season.
- [108:59]
B
I'm good.
- [109:00]
A
Audible needs to come back. Everybody wants to know what happened.
- [109:02]
B
Let's go.
- [109:03]
A
The voice talent was fantastic. The stories were fantastic. Me and David, we all wanted to do our own thing. And Lena was. Lena, you. You would. No, you gonna read the lines like this. This is where it's coming from. Here. We just out there. No, we gonna say it like this. Lena, you would come in the booth. I asked y' all to read. I'm listening. And this is what actors don't understand. When you have a director, a producer, or somebody who sees the vision and knows what it's supposed to be, we should listen. We think, oh, this little part gonna be fine. It doesn't match. It doesn't go. It's not the thing. But sometimes we have our own. We want to do it our own way. But it was great having you and Mark in the booth, in the other booth listening to us. To be able to stop and say, kim, hit that word. People don't understand. You're doing voiceover. It becomes another meaning. But you can hear it. I'm thinking, I'm saying it correctly. You're like, no, hit the and. Or hit the you. And that was difficult because we hear it one way. You're like. And then finally, you understand it. If you hit the you, it's going to mean. Because once again, this is hearing. It's not a visual. They got to understand what you're saying and where you're coming from. So I learned a lot in that series.
- [110:27]
B
What was your approach playing a character that was basically a version of yourself?
- [110:32]
A
How. How do you make yourself better? How do I make Kim Whitley better as a character? Even though it's Kim. How do I hit these lines and this comedic timing or this other thing to not say, oh, that's just Kim. That they can. I want them to. What is the word? Just absorb themselves into this world. That when you're listening to it, everything else goes away. Because Kim is so good. Sherri shepherd, so good. All these. And now these are just characters. That's not Kim Whitley. That's not Sherry, that's not David, that's not Lena. That they can. When you're really good, you can see the world, even though you're hearing it. And that comes from writing and good performances that you just. You're in the world.
- [111:34]
B
Was it hard, sort of reliving some of these memories that we sort of fictionalized?
- [111:43]
A
Yes. You know, it's hard when you're doing your own life and there are things in your life that you're like, oof. I don't want to revisit that. But it was well written that it did. It wasn't painful. It was. I miss Joshua being a baby and being young and being a little kid. So to go back to those times was great, you know, and what I went through with his birth mom and how all these. How it all came out and what we did. So. But I think that's what makes it good. That's a good script. That's a good. Because people can hear the realness in your voice if you're. You're. If you're doing the voice and something is happening in that scene and you're really feeling frustrated with the birth mom. They're going to hear it's real. And I think that's good for storytelling.
- [112:52]
B
Yeah. And I think, you know, our lives are our own inspiration for the work, for the jokes, for the humor. And you would tell stories about, you know, conversations you would have with his real birth mom and conversations you were having with different guys in your life about you now having a kid and your friends, real life friends. Choose. And how it changed everybody's life. And it was really fun to get that show out there, even if it is just one season. I really wanted to make sure we documented that journey because it was humorous, but it was human. And I think those are always the best stories to tell.
- [113:26]
A
Well, I like that. Humorous and human.
- [113:29]
B
Yes.
- [113:29]
A
Can I steal that? Sure. Let's take it.
- [113:32]
B
Last question.
- [113:33]
A
Last question. Yeah.
- [113:37]
B
What is your definition of a phenomenal comedic actress?
- [113:46]
A
Freedom. A phenomenal comedic actress. I'm thinking of one in particular right now, who knows. Taimi can bring joy at the same time. Also can make you feel. That is a great comedic actress. That you could actually feel something. But you bust out. You want that. You love that, but you like. You like. I want to hang out with that person. That is a. And that timing ain't nothing like timing. You cannot be a great comedic actress without knowing timing, when to hold, when to fold, and when to run. You gotta know all that. You gotta be like, hit it. And that would be the definition of a great comedic actress.
- [114:54]
B
Well, I think you fit that description really, really well. Because I think after sitting with your work for these past few days, all of it, that becomes very clear that your timing is unmatched. And your authenticity that you're bringing to these characters, even though you are very different from the characters that you've played, there's something very honest about it. And I think that's because you don't judge these women that you're playing. You play them with full gusto, with a lot of love and a lot of humor and a lot of humanity. And I think that's why your legacy will never die, because you represent all of us. You, that fear that you talk about, that wanting to do well for the people that are rooting for you. And I know I'm one of those people that is constantly rooting for you, but also calling you to come be a part of whatever it is I'm doing.
- [116:00]
A
Now, you also. I want y' all to know Lena also calls me, and she thinks she the aunt and she the mama sometimes, too, but I listen to her.
- [116:10]
B
You are one of our pillars, one of our comedic pillars, one of our. Those people that when we see you in something, we feel held, we feel safe, and we know that we're gonna laugh, but we're never gonna laugh at the character. We're gonna laugh with her. And I think that's a rare quality that few comedic actresses have, and you have it in spades. So thank you for making us feel seen, for not ever judging anyone, and thank you just for reminding us of who we are.
- [116:50]
A
Well, thank you. This was really. I thought we was going to talk till the candle burned down, but I see. We almost there. We almost there. No, this was. Thank you. I didn't know what to expect when I came here. You don't get interviews where you get to talk about your work. So I thank you for doing the research, really, and digging deep into who I am as an actress and as a comedic. And even today, once again, with Lena Waithe, I have learned something about myself. So thank you.
- [117:28]
B
That's a cut.