Transcript

Loretta Devine (0:02)

Lemonade. They had this contest where everybody had to bring their baby picture. And in my baby picture, I had this big old antique black phone.

Jennifer Lewis (0:13)

And people said, damn, how damn old are you? And I thought I was the same age as everybody else.

Loretta Devine (0:24)

I had no idea that Dreamgirls would.

Jennifer Lewis (0:26)

Haunt us our whole lives. I'm like, Jesus Christ.

Loretta Devine (0:31)

And the hardest part, I think of being an actress is you have to see what you lost. I'm lucky because I can be cussing.

Jennifer Lewis (0:38)

A fan out, and they think I'm just being funny. Ms. Devine, can I take a picture? No. Get away from me.

Interviewer (0:44)

Thank you.

Jennifer Lewis (0:44)

I'm tired. And they go, okay, okay, okay. But you gonna take it, right?

Interviewer (0:49)

Legacy.

Loretta Devine (0:50)

Oh, Legacy.

Interviewer (0:53)

First. Thank you so much.

Loretta Devine (0:55)

Pleasure. My pleasure.

Interviewer (0:56)

I'm really excited to talk to you about your beautiful body of work that I've been able to watch in real time. As I've gotten older and as I've decided that I wanted to be in the business and wanted to have a voice and wanted to tell stories I didn't know I wanted to be on screen. That was not a part of my plan. But I watched you on screen and heard your voice a lot. And you've been a part of. Your legacy has really inspired me to want to step into the business, to want to be a part of it, to know I could be.

Loretta Devine (1:36)

Yes.

Interviewer (1:37)

And for that, I'm really grateful, and I'm just really excited to talk to you about. The first thing I want to talk to you about is something I wasn't able to see because it's theater. And theater, that's the tough thing about theater, is I can hear about it. I hear the stories. And before we sat down, we talked about Ms. Shirley Ralph having sat in this chair, the Jennifer Lewis also having sat in this chair. And it was important to me to talk to Jennifer Lewis about this project, which is Dreamgirls. Even though Jennifer Lewis did not make it to the stage, per se, I. I got to be around her and hear those stories about her being a part of the beginning of that work. And it was really special to hear her story about being a part of that workshop and being the first Jennifer to say Effie's words. But when Shirley Roth was here, she talked about the audition process and how it was very harrowing and how it was a little tough. But there was something that I thought about. She. She said to me was. She said, loretta Devine, in that moment was someone that we knew, and I was aware of who she was.

Summary

Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe

Episode: Building a Legacy with Loretta Devine

Date: September 9, 2025
Podcast: Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe (Hillman Grad & Lemonada Media)
Guest: Loretta Devine

Episode Overview

This heartfelt conversation between Lena Waithe and legendary actress Loretta Devine is a moving celebration of Black storytelling, resilience, and legacy in entertainment. Waithe, inspired by Devine’s body of work, explores pivotal moments in Devine’s decades-spanning career—from the groundbreaking stage of Dreamgirls through iconic films like Waiting to Exhale and The Preacher’s Wife, to her Emmy-winning TV roles. The episode is a deep dive into artistry, perseverance, creative process, and the interconnected tapestry of Black performers who shaped and continue to shape the industry.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Roots, Inspiration, and Early Career

Loretta’s Artistic Upbringing: Growing up in Houston, Devine served as artistic director at a local Black Arts center, creating plays and learning the value of improv and collaboration.

“We built the sets, we made the costumes, we wrote the scripts… improv was really fun for me and great and I understood it and knew how to help make things happen.” (04:11)
Making Dreams Reality: Her mother named her after Loretta Young, instilling an early sense that performance might be her destiny.

“So you go, oh, I'm supposed to be an actress, huh, Ma?” (07:53)

2. Dreamgirls: The Work and The Magic

Building Dreamgirls (03:10–09:46):
- The musical’s creation was more about collaborative workshops than traditional auditioning.
- Major lines and iconic moments were improvised by the cast themselves, pulling from personal and collective experiences.
- The process was grueling: “The hardest part, I think of being an actress is you have to see what you lost. ... Dreamgirls was hard for me because I was like the Invisible Dream.” (18:28)
The Show’s Lasting Impact:
- “It's a legend, and it's great to be part of things that last forever.” (11:00)
Community and Competition:
- Names like Jackée Harry and Vanessa Bell Calloway are cited as part of a “posse” of Black actresses supporting and challenging each other in the era.
Navigating Rejection and Self-Affirmation:
- Created her own mantras to bolster self-worth amid a competitive industry.
“So I had to do a lot of the stuff that people always do. I made my own song to give myself… To keep my ego as far as going into things.” (18:28)

3. Iconic Film and TV Roles: Breaking Ground in Black Hollywood

A Different World and TV (13:51–18:28)

Breakthrough on TV:
- Landed role as Stevie, dorm director, a career-defining “big, big job.”
- Discusses the practical, sometimes precarious, realities of working in LA and the importance of residuals.

Class Act and Representing Black Motherhood (19:12–23:32)

The Significance of Small Roles:
- Even minor parts on screen allowed her to bring warmth and nuance to stereotypes and Black family life.
“My favorite job is usually the one I'm on, because that's the only thing that's important.” (23:17)

Waiting to Exhale: A Cultural Milestone (30:03–41:29)

Why It Mattered:
- First major film to feature a robust, advance press tour for a Black cast; inspired future classics.
- “That's one of the first black movies that they did advance press the way they do for white movies.” (30:58)
Dynamic with the Cast:
- Shared mutual support, fun, and inside jokes with Angela Bassett, Whitney Houston, and Lela Rochon.
- “It was three months in Arizona having fun.” (34:52)
- On creating on-screen friendships: “We hung out. We did. We went bowling a couple of times. ... So we were friends.” (35:35)
Fame’s Aftermath:
- “You become famous, like, overnight. And so fame feels a whole lot different than where you can just go everywhere without having to explain.” (37:43)
Parenthood and Healthy Love:
- Her scenes with Giancarlo Esposito and Gregory Hines depicted supportive Black families and queer Black male sexuality in a groundbreaking way.
“You’re setting your son free and the pastor sort of does the work for you. ... That's a beautiful show.” (41:51)

4. Legacy, Representation, and Sustaining a Career

Surviving in Show Business (52:31–55:49)

The Realities Behind the Work:
- Describes grind, instability, having to constantly adjust, and coping with rejection—“throwing paint against the wall; you never know what’s going to stick.”
Finding Joy:
- Her joy in acting comes from the work itself, not from any one role. She delights in audience feedback and stays “on point” for every job.

Voice and Voiceover Work (57:36–62:25)

Signature Sound:
- Recognizes her unique voice as an asset; discusses the challenge and satisfaction of voiceover jobs (notably The PJs).
- “I never worked with Eddie Murphy. ... So I, you know, so. Because Jennifer wasn't. Yeah, everybody. I'm telling the same circles.” (58:17)
On Representation:
- Advocates for a diversity of Black images on screen.
“To me, when I'm watching something, I go, where the black girls. ... Where is this world, you know?” (60:16)
Adapting to New Media:
- Reflects on how the internet and streaming platforms have shifted opportunities for actors, particularly post-COVID.

5. Honors, Recognition, and Longevity

Emmy Win for Grey’s Anatomy (69:45–73:46):
- Winning the Emmy was affirming but didn’t “guarantee” job security.
“I thought when I got that Emmy, I said, oh God, I'll never have to worry about working again. They fired me like a week later...” (72:19)
Embracing Ongoing Change:
- Acknowledges industry’s emphasis on youth but affirms the value of still working and mentoring.
- “Now I think I'm moving into another area of show business, which is age... But so you. It's just like hurdles that you go over and hope for the best.” (74:37)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Dreamgirls Experience (03:10):
“What we did was a six week workshop... we created it out of our own competition and imagination.” – Loretta Devine (03:10)
On Being the “Invisible Dream” (18:28):
“Dreamgirls was hard for me because I was like the Invisible Dream… So I had to do a lot of the stuff that people always do. I made my own song to give myself...to keep my ego.” – Loretta Devine
On Her Definition of a Great Actress (86:03):
“A good actress is one who gets a chance to act and work. ... Some things I've seen myself in, I can't even believe it's me. Wow. I did that, you know.” – Loretta Devine
On Saying Yes (85:06):
“So I always, when I can, I say yes... and you just keep sort of wishing for the best. I don't know any other way to put it.” – Loretta Devine
On Her Place in the Industry (87:39):
“You really are one of our dreams come true.” – Lena Waithe
“Thank you. Because I feel real regular.” – Loretta Devine
On the Value of Each Project (23:17):
“My favorite job is usually the one I'm on, because that's the only thing that's important.” – Loretta Devine

Timestamps for Key Segments

Loretta’s Childhood and Early Theater Work: 00:02–08:01
Making and Legacy of Dreamgirls: 03:10–11:07, revisited at 64:00–68:47
TV Breakthroughs (“A Different World,” “Class Act”): 13:51–23:32
Iconic Film Roles & Black Sisterhood (“Waiting to Exhale”, “Preacher’s Wife”): 30:03–46:29
Adjusting to Fame: 37:43–41:51
Shift in the Industry Post-COVID: 29:00–30:03, 46:31–47:18
Grey’s Anatomy & Emmy Win: 69:45–73:46
Philosophy on Work & Legacy: 74:37–89:51
Reflections on Representation & Changing Media: 57:36–63:55
Final Reflections on Greatness and Legacy: 86:03–90:28

Additional Memorable Moments

On Relationship With Debbie Allen:
“Every time I see Debbie [Allen] coming, I'd be like, oh, my God.” (13:25)
On Getting Cast in A Different World:
“I was in London doing Colored Museum and they called me back to LA for Different World for the last audition and I got it.” (14:01)
On the Challenges of Hollywood:
“Hollywood seems easy after you've done Broadway for four years.” (09:55)
On Working with Whitney and the Preacher’s Wife Family:
“We hung out. You know, I have pictures of me, her, and Lela at some club all dressed up, having fun.” (45:49)
On Keeping Faith in Self Despite Being Overlooked:
“You learn to create the roles that are distant from you.” (14:49)
On Aging in the Industry:
“Now I think I'm moving into another area of show business, which is age... So you just keep sort of wishing for the best.” (74:37)

Conclusion

The episode offers a rich oral history of Black women blazing trails on stage, television, and film. Through humility, candor, and humor, Loretta Devine reflects on building a career defined by creativity, perseverance, and a deep sense of community. Her advice, lived example, and generous storytelling are woven into a tapestry of Black Hollywood legacy—one that continues to inspire Lena Waithe, the audience, and generations to come.

End of Summary

Building a Legacy with Loretta Devine