Podcast Summary: Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe
Episode: “Building a Legacy with Phylicia Rashad”
Date: October 14, 2025
Featuring: Lena Waithe & Phylicia Rashad
Produced by: Hillman Grad & Lemonada Media
Overview
This episode of Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe is a rich, heartfelt exploration of Phylicia Rashad’s remarkable legacy as an actress, storyteller, and cultural icon. Lena and Phylicia traverse Rashad’s expansive career, delving into her formative years on Broadway, her influential turn as Claire Huxtable on The Cosby Show, her approach to crafting layered performances, her deep familial inspirations, and her ongoing contributions to theater and film. The conversation weaves personal history, artistry, Black legacy, and the philosophy of excellence across generations.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Broadway Beginnings and Understudy Years
- The Wiz & Dreamgirls: Rashad reflects on being an understudy for Glinda in The Wiz and Dina in Dreamgirls, and how “you train as a dramatic actress, but to work and pay rent, you have to do more. You gotta sing, you gotta dance—even if not as good as your sister, you pretend.” (02:09)
- The Art of Understudying: She clarifies, “An understudy studies the role, not necessarily the actor… When you walk on stage, you are part of the ensemble. If you’re just regurgitating, there’s nothing to respond to.” (03:31)
- Always Ready: “You gotta be ready. When you train with good people, that’s what you learn. But you still never know.” (05:19)
2. Legacy and The Cosby Show
- Personal Impact: Phylicia describes what The Cosby Show did for her life—“I didn’t have to worry about money. I could pay my son’s tuition. But I still just lived as I always had—kept my own house, took care of my child.” (07:02)
- Vivian Ayers Allen’s Influence: Her mother’s presence in her roles: “Oh, Phylicia, it doesn’t matter who you’re playing. You’re always being me.” (08:29)
3. Acting Process and Iconic Episodes
- Directing & Musicality:
- On being directed by Malcolm-Jamal Warner: “He was learning the mechanics… it was marvelous to be part of that.” (12:13)
- “The words themselves inform how I say it… I go to the word itself.” (14:28)
- Claire’s Liberation & Performance Choices: On playing a menopause storyline: “I haven’t given birth to five children either, but I’m playing this role. So let’s go.” (16:28)
- On Writing & Meaning:
- “When you’re afforded an opportunity to do something that has meaning, I jump at it.” (18:27)
- “So much of sitcoms is just rhythm and nagging, but writing about what really happened, bringing context, makes the work special.” (18:27)
4. Family, Heritage, and the Definition of Success
- Mother’s Wisdom and Poetry: Rashad tells the moving story of her mother’s long-form poem, “Hawk,” which became a family and cultural touchstone for imagination and freedom. (22:24–31:08)
- “Success wasn’t what my mother tried to give us. She wanted us to be free… realize our full human potential.” (22:24)
- On Creative Upbringing: Vivid anecdotes about her mother teaching her, her sister, and their friends Katherine Dunham combinations in the living room, or being her first piano teacher. (24:00)
5. Polly and Representation
- How Rashad’s role in Polly was transformative, remembering not being able to see Pollyanna in theaters as a child due to segregation, and the excitement of working with Debbie Allen and Keisha Knight Pulliam.
- “I knew it was going to be great because Debbie… wasn’t just going to direct it, she’d choreograph it too. There was going to be some dancing.” (32:26)
- A humorous regret: “The only thing I didn’t like… was not being able to be in that church scene because it was on fire the whole day. I was out there with a stick up my—” (34:21)
6. Portraying Mothers and Matriarchs
- Once Upon a Time… When We Were Colored: She modeled “Ma Punk” on her great aunt and grandmothers—women who “were very simple, but knew how to love.” She insisted that participating was about “heritage and legacy,” not money. (38:48, 42:25)
- Memorable quote: “If I can’t do this, I don’t want to do anything.” (42:25)
- On Portraying Love, Loss, and Family: “Family was the dream. People forget, for folks a generation and a half removed from slavery, family was a luxury.” (45:51)
7. The Old Settler & Exploring Human Complexity
- Collaborating with Debbie Allen and the dynamic of sisters in The Old Settler: “We were always joking around… but those sisters love each other. They’re just working through resentments and pain that are never just one thing.” (50:18, 53:34, 61:36)
- “Life ain’t no one way or the other. Life is spherical.” (61:36)
8. A Raisin in the Sun: Honoring Ancestors through Art
- Rashad sought to bring “Lena’s dignity and her pride in being of five generations who endured every manner of insult and indignity, but who never sold themselves out.” (65:16)
- Specificity in set design: “Cleanliness. There is honor and pride in people. This sink [set piece] says something different. So we’re going to fix this.” (66:23)
- The play “is about three love stories… and about seeing each other’s humanity, through love, beyond anger or pain.” (69:00–70:36)
- “It’s this love that has brought us through… it will see us through even this time.” (74:53)
9. Creed and Contemporary Legacy
- On working with Ryan Coogler: “He’s such a teddy bear… his eyes are so bright. Always very subtle, giving you a suggestion and moving a thing around.” (80:16)
- On nurturing Michael B. Jordan’s “Adonis Creed” as her own: “My mother was the Pied Piper, honey. She’d take your child if you let her!… But this was also a complicated love—Adonis is her husband’s child, after his death.” (81:53–83:26)
10. Purpose and Continuing the Conversation
- On the play Purpose: “I want to do this because this is Steppenwolf Theater and I know there’s work ethic here... I had seen Brandon Jacobs-Jenkins' work. And it’s new. How creative can I really be?” (86:30–87:24)
- On what it means: “This play is about understanding purpose and self, generational connection and isolation... Sometimes we miss one another in family, sometimes we even miss ourselves.” (88:50–91:07)
- Defining a phenomenal actress: “Ruby Dee… She literally disappeared before my eyes in full light, because I went where her focus went. That’s a phenomenal actress: someone who can take you there.” (92:28)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Being Prepared:
"You gotta be ready. When you train with good people, that’s what you learn."
— Phylicia Rashad (05:19) -
On Crafting Performance:
"What is this scene about? What is happening internally with this person? That’s internal work. That’s the work of an actor. You do the work of an actor."
— Phylicia Rashad (04:30) -
On Roles Mimicking Family:
“Oh, Phylicia, it doesn't matter who you're playing. You're always being me.”
— Vivian Ayers (as recounted by Rashad) (08:29) -
On The Power of Writing and Meaningful Work:
"When you’re afforded an opportunity to do something that has meaning, I jump at it."
— Phylicia Rashad (18:27) -
On Success and Freedom:
“My mother wanted us to be free in ourselves, in our spirits, in our imagination. That was success.”
— Phylicia Rashad (22:24) -
On Family as the Dream:
“Family was the dream. For a people who were a generation and a half removed from a time where family was a luxury… Family is our greatest gift.”
— Phylicia Rashad (45:51, 47:57) -
On Collaboration with Debbie Allen:
"Collaboration and cooperation. It’s that simple. And respect."
— Phylicia Rashad (55:16) -
On The Complexity of Life:
“Life ain’t no one way or the other. Life is spherical.”
— Phylicia Rashad (61:36) -
On The Art of Acting:
“If I just choose one quality, that's one quality. But a crayon box has a lot of colors in it, and human emotion has a lot of colors… more interesting to explore than one single thing.”
— Phylicia Rashad (62:21) -
On Ancestry and Love:
"It’s love that has brought us through and will see us through even this time."
— Phylicia Rashad (74:53) -
On the Role of Lena Younger:
“She is a woman who is full of love. Not some hard piece of furniture with a wig on it. Not some angry Black woman carrying the weight of the world.”
— Phylicia Rashad (75:26) -
On Acting Icons:
“Ruby Dee was a phenomenal actress—she literally disappeared before my eyes in full light, because I went where her focus went.”
— Phylicia Rashad (92:28)
Key Timestamps
| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:28 | Rashad introduces foundational values: collaboration, legacy, respect | | 02:09 | Discussion of Broadway years and surviving in NY as an understudy | | 07:02 | Shift: How Claire Huxtable and The Cosby Show changed Rashad's life | | 08:29 | Vivian Ayers Allen’s influence on Rashad as an actor/mother | | 12:13 | Working with Malcolm-Jamal Warner as director | | 16:28 | Discussing “Claire’s Liberation” episode—portraying menopause | | 22:24 | Defining success, mother’s philosophy, and the legacy of "Hawk" | | 32:26 | “Polly,” childhood exclusion, representation in media | | 38:48 | Role in “Once Upon a Time… When We Were Colored” | | 45:51 | Reflection on family as legacy and dream | | 50:18 | Relationship between sisters in “The Old Settler” | | 61:36 | On life’s complexity and exploring the emotional spectrum | | 65:16 | On approaching Lena in “A Raisin in the Sun” | | 80:16 | Memories of “Creed” and being directed by Ryan Coogler | | 86:30 | Purpose and working with new playwrights | | 92:28 | Defining what makes a phenomenal actress |
Conclusion & Legacy
Phylicia Rashad’s conversation with Lena Waithe is a masterclass in craft, legacy, and Black womanhood. Rashad’s insights span performance, preparation, ancestry, and the essence of meaningful storytelling. The tone is reverent yet candid, shaped by humor, humility, and reverence for those who came before. This episode celebrates the ways Rashad’s artistry has fostered new generations of artists and changed the cultural landscape—making it essential listening for anyone moved by Black legacy and the power of narrative.