Tichina Arnold (2:03)

My 70s work too.

Lena Waithe (2:04)

Look, look, look, look. I've been rewatching things that I watched in real time.

Tichina Arnold (2:10)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lena Waithe (2:11)

Some things I was kind of behind on is the first thing we're talking about. I'm behind on, but I was able to watch your career flourish and grow and watch you go through different chapters in your career. And it's just been very inspiring and educational.

Tichina Arnold (2:26)

Thank.

Lena Waithe (2:29)

What I like to do is start with sort of the first time I saw the person or saw them in something that was a flagship project.

Tichina Arnold (2:35)

Okay.

Lena Waithe (2:35)

And here's the interesting thing about this first credit is that by the time I saw it, you were already a known person. You were already a star. So when I saw this, I thought, oh, There goes that person that I know already. Okay, this credit is Little Shop of Horrors.

Tichina Arnold (2:52)

Ah, yes. Little Shop of Horrors.

Lena Waithe (2:56)

I think when I was watching it as a young person, I didn't understand the significance of what I was seeing.

Tichina Arnold (3:03)

And I don't think we did either.

Lena Waithe (3:05)

Right. That's the thing. I was curious. Were you familiar with the history of the work and the music and what. How it's.

Tichina Arnold (3:11)

Well, I come from the theater, so, yes, I did understand and know about this particular musical. But what people don't know is I had just quit the business at.

Lena Waithe (3:21)

But how old you.

Tichina Arnold (3:22)

Nobody knows this.

Lena Waithe (3:23)

You're like. You're a young person.

Tichina Arnold (3:24)

I was 16.

Lena Waithe (3:24)

Right, right.

Tichina Arnold (3:25)

Yes. Well, here's the thing. Like, I was 16. I had just quit. And I was like, mom, done. This is. I'm good. I'm gonna go to. There's the summer arts camp in Jersey at Rutgers that all the high schoolers were going to, all my friends were going to. We were going to do this summer camp where I was going to be studying opera and all this other stuff. And I was like, I quit. I'm just doing this. She was like, all right, right. So then I start getting these calls while I'm at summer camp. She was like, tisha, your agent. I had just gotten them, by the way, but I've been working nonstop without an agent. But I just gotten them, so I'm like 15, 16 years old, and. And she was like, they keep calling me nonstop about this. This audition for Little Chapel. Hart was like, tell them I quit. I'm not coming back. And she was like, no, Tisha just. They won't stop bothering me. So I went, and. Of course. Who's there?

Lena Waithe (4:21)

Tichina Arnold.

Tichina Arnold (4:22)

Tichina Arnold. Okay. A lot of people should know this by now, but we've known each other since we were 11 and 12 years old, and we met in an audition. So we were used to seeing each other in auditions. We were used to competing.

Lena Waithe (4:37)

So you knew each other when you saw each other at the Little Shop of Horror?

Tichina Arnold (4:39)

Oh, my God. Yeah. Like, okay, I'm going to back that story up. Like when. When we were kids, I remember walking into this audition. God knows what it was. I don't remember, but nobody would really talk to each other. Everybody was like, you know, they had their. Some people had their parents with them. I was going to New York by myself at 12 because my parents would not get me through the Lincoln Tunnel on time. And they was making me late. And back then, I don't know how it Is now. But Broadway waves for no man. And so they would. They would actually charge you $50 for every five minutes that you're late. So they was. They was fucking up our. Our bills. Like, that's our bill money, right? So I was like, I'm going to go by myself, okay? And she was like, I don't know if that's a good idea. I was like, I got. I won't talk to none of the holes in the pimps on 42nd Street. I'm. I'm just going to get. If you give me $20, I'll eat hot dogs for lunch every single day from the carts. And so she was like, all right. So I started going to New York by myself From Jersey At 12 years old, my first time going, who do I run into? Tichina Arnold.

Lena Waithe (5:50)

Wow. That's stunning. I mean, in rewatching the movie, what I'm just blown away by is just the raw talent and enthusiasm that is coming.

Tichina Arnold (6:02)

We were excited about that part. Singing together was amazing.

Lena Waithe (6:05)

What were rehearsals like for that?

Tichina Arnold (6:07)

Ooh. It wasn't really the rehearsals. It was the recording studios that were really freaking dope and really pushing one another because we really pushed one another to greatness. I remember being in the recording studio at one point, and Tichina and I, we're across from each other. Michelle is here, and the mic is in front of us. And I think I was singing some fun now, right. But belting it. Right. And so Tashina's going so far. How are you? Are you hitting those notes? Because it was up in the stratosphere. And remember, I had just been. I had just come back from summer camp and was studying opera, so my voice was really strong and rich and, you know, so it was those kind of moments where we was, like, just cheering each other on to see how far the other one could push the other.

Lena Waithe (7:04)

How tough was the choreography?

Tichina Arnold (7:06)

It was tough at first, but then they pulled back on the choreography because what they knew as our choreography in the 50s and 60s was tamed. Meaning what they would see on camera then was the tame version when we, meaning African American artists, performed in front of. We was, like, getting it. So they pulled it back because that. That's what they knew us to be, but we never sat in it and really understood the magnitude. We're just trying to feed our families. So we weren't thinking, this is a big deal. We're always thinking, okay, what's next? Even in the moment, I'm just now starting to really start to live in the moment and understand that things are different. Actually, it was a friend of mine who, like, pulled my card on that because I guess I was telling him a story and he was like, you gotta stop doing that. And I was like, stop doing what? He was like, you keep telling these stories like they're normal. And I go, what do you mean? He was like, you just can't say you fixed Thanksgiving dinner for Tupac and then that's like a normal thing, right? Like, oh, I know what you mean. Because I worked with Pam Grier one time and she used to always say stuff that was really wild. Like we're standing next to each other in a scene and she was like, oh, yeah. I remember when I was in bed with Yoko and John and Richard, and we were all playing music all night long and recording, and I was like, bitch, you can't just say that you was in bed with Yoko and John and Richard Pryor and jamming all night long. And it made me understand. So we started calling them PG stories, Pam Grier stories. So he'll always go, that's a Pam Gerstel. And I'll sit in it. I go, ah. And really understand that. God, I've been through some shit. I have connected to some amazing people during this journey, and I'm just starting to understand it at 56 years old. Wow.

Lena Waithe (9:27)

Well, it's an iconic movie.

Tichina Arnold (9:28)

Yes.

Lena Waithe (9:29)

You guys are amazing in it.

Tichina Arnold (9:30)

Thank you.

Lena Waithe (9:30)

And I'm so glad y' all are there.

Tichina Arnold (9:33)

Thank you. Me too. I'm glad I didn't quit.

Lena Waithe (9:36)

Me too. The next thing we're going to talk about is a movie that I've seen way more times than I can count. Seen it so many times, and then to revisit it again, just. It really kind of silenced me because I had to really sit with what your character is going through in the film and what she ultimately experiences by the end.

Tichina Arnold (10:04)

You're talking about school days, right?

Lena Waithe (10:05)

I am, yeah. Jane Toussaint is a character that I don't think we could understand at the time. I think looking at it now, as a 40 year old woman in 2025, I am traumatized by it, by her experience and what's happening to her in the film. And I think that is the goal of Spike Lee. But in watching it back, not just because we were gonna sit down, but I'm seeing just the vulnerability of your character and her desire to be wanted.

Tichina Arnold (10:41)

Her insatiable desire.

Lena Waithe (10:43)

Her insatiable desire to be wanted. I know you were very young when you did that movie.

Tichina Arnold (10:47)

18.

Lena Waithe (10:48)

Yeah. And that's a lot to take on and a lot to carry as an actress.

Tichina Arnold (10:53)

Yeah.

Lena Waithe (10:54)

I'm curious, what was that like to be introduced to that character and what was it like when you secured that role?

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Tichina Arnold (12:05)

You know what's interesting? When I found out that it was a Spike Lee movie, She's Got a Habit was out. And I just wanted to work with an African American filmmaker. I just wanted to work with Spike Lee so bad. And when the audition came about, I assumed that I was just gonna be one of the extras. I was auditioning in my mind for one of the support characters, just one of the extras, dancers. I mean, singers. I guess I did really well because the next thing I know is I get a call from my agent saying that I have a callback for the dance audition. Now, most people don't know this. I am not a dancer. I'm not trained. I couldn't afford dance classes back in the day when I was coming up. And back then they only cost $5, okay? So I couldn't afford the classes. So I wasn't trained. As a matter of fact, I had just told my agent, stop singing sending me on dance auditions. I'm not a dancer. And they didn't know that because they saw me in a musical on Broadway. That's how they picked me up. So they had assumed that that's what I did, but I wasn't. And so I found out that there was a dance audition and I didn't know what it was for, so I told them no. And then I get a call from Robbie Reed, the great Robbie Reed. The great Robbie Reed cast who was Casting school days. And she said, tisha, why aren't you coming to the audition? And I said, for what? She said, school days, you have the callback. And I was like, oh, that's what that was. I said, okay, when is the first audition and when is the last audition? That day? She said, 10 o' clock and 6 o'. Clock. I said, okay, give me the 6pm she said, okay, I show up at 10am so that I can learn the dance. So I stayed there. Didn't take a water break, didn't take a food break, didn't have lunch, didn't do nothing. I just had to concentrate. I needed the time to be able to compete in that room. And I could see Spike just peeking in on people. But I thought, I didn't know he was peeking in on me. I didn't know I was a contender. What I thought was Vanessa Williams was the lead. She originally was supposed to do it. Wow. Some kind of way it fell out. I don't know why, but at the time I didn't know that. I didn't know I was auditioning for the lead character. Spike had me and Kaim come early so that I could kind of learn the dances and she was mentoring me. Kaim was the other lead character. And then once the other girls came, he split us up. He put all the dark skinned girls in a bad funky motel. He put all the light skinned girls in one hotel with all the guys. So there was. And there was what he did. It worked.

Lena Waithe (15:17)

Once you read the script, how did you go about preparing for that role.

Tichina Arnold (15:21)

And approaching it in every other way that I've ever done? I've worked with Howard Fine since I was 18. It's breaking down the characters. It's doing all of your work, your background, me really understanding who this woman was. And I know that I didn't want to vamp her out because nobody would understand her. I had to love her and like her and understand her insatiable need to be accepted.

Lena Waithe (15:51)

You know, look, the sex scene is the sex scene. But to me, I was more taken by a couple scenes that you have with Giancarlo where you all are talking.

Tichina Arnold (16:01)

Yeah.

Lena Waithe (16:02)

Where he basically sort of hands you over to Half Pint played by Spike Lee. And it's just such a carpentry hard thing to watch. What was it for you waking up that morning, having to go do?

Tichina Arnold (16:19)

It was a hard scene that was hard for me because those people to be passed over to another person, another person. It was hard to play like. But I kind of just Dove into it. The tears were real because I understood her and I understood why she was doing what she was doing.

Lena Waithe (16:43)

And it goes even further when she, you know, tells him that she did it. What? He asked.

Tichina Arnold (16:50)

I did it.

Lena Waithe (16:50)

And then there's this horrible manipulation that takes place where he says, well, you failed the test, if you will. And you're left with this broken young woman who we know will never be the same after that. And when you meet her in the beginning of the film, she is youthful, she is somewhat hopeful, but by the end of the movie, she is a shell of herself.

Tichina Arnold (17:13)

That is my life story, Lena. That is my life story. That's crazy. Yeah.

Lena Waithe (17:29)

It's something that I don't think any of us have ever forgotten. You mean tissue? I got you.

Tichina Arnold (17:34)

Yeah. No, this ain't working for me. Uh.

Lena Waithe (17:36)

Oh, I got you. Somebody breathed some tissue in here. Somebody run it in.

Tichina Arnold (17:40)

That's messed up.

Lena Waithe (17:41)

No, I mean, what is wrong with you?

Tichina Arnold (17:43)

Why you got me crying? I didn't even think of it like that. But that's what it feels like in this newness that I am right now. Thank you.

Lena Waithe (17:56)

Thank you so much.

Tichina Arnold (17:56)

Oh, this is dumb.

Lena Waithe (17:57)

No, no, it's not at all.

Tichina Arnold (17:58)

Okay.

Lena Waithe (17:59)

And please take the beat. Because I had to take a beat. And that I watched that movie so much again as a young person enjoying the. The legacy of Spike Lee. And that is also a part of that legacy, that watching it now as an adult and having seen that movie in a long time, I hadn't really seen it in a while.

Tichina Arnold (18:24)

And I think. I think with what you just said about her, it's like, I wish I could have spoken to the woman I was playing that role now. I've really been through so much, so many ups and downs in this business, so much pain. I've been people's cash cow. I've been their support system. I've been so many things to so many people because I may have understood their insatiable need to be accepted.

Lena Waithe (19:06)

Wow. We get to go to some lighter fare than this next one. Another one that just, I think, is such an important movie. And the thing about this, somebody could argue, because it's a movie that does seem light, and it is a movie that shows black youth and fun. House Party and joy.

Tichina Arnold (19:27)

House Party.

Lena Waithe (19:28)

I'm talking about House Party. Yeah. What was it like being directed by Reginald Hudlin?

Tichina Arnold (19:32)

That was fun. He's fun, he's smart. He knew exactly where he wanted, what story he wanted to tell. Great storyteller.

Lena Waithe (19:45)

Phenomenal.

Tichina Arnold (19:46)

Phenomenal.

Lena Waithe (19:48)

What I Love about the movie is that it feels like a really honest friendship because it's not super sweet the entire time.

Tichina Arnold (19:56)

And you have the. There's little conflicts there's going on.

Lena Waithe (19:59)

I really love the scene when you all are in the backseat headed to go get kids out of jail.

Tichina Arnold (20:05)

Yeah.

Lena Waithe (20:06)

She's a little surprised that you and him are starting to. You and kid are starting to feel each other.

Tichina Arnold (20:14)

Right.

Lena Waithe (20:14)

And. And I love how real and grounded you are in your performance. What was that like in terms of you. You figuring that out? How much. How much conversation was happening with Reginald, or was he allowing you to.

Tichina Arnold (20:27)

To find us to find it?

Lena Waithe (20:29)

Wow.

Tichina Arnold (20:30)

He really was allowing us to find. He really understood that we were truly friends, so he let us just. He let us go.

Lena Waithe (20:42)

I'm forever grateful for house party going to something also light. Let's talk about Blossom.

Tichina Arnold (20:50)

Blossom. Who knows that I was on Blossom?

Lena Waithe (20:53)

I do.

Tichina Arnold (20:54)

How the hell you know I was on Blossom?

Lena Waithe (20:56)

I used to watch Blossom. Okay.

Tichina Arnold (20:58)

Oh, my God.

Lena Waithe (21:00)

No shame in my game about that.

Tichina Arnold (21:02)

That is freaking hilarious.

Lena Waithe (21:04)

Sun hats that flipped up. Come on, girl. Kidding me. Two episodes. Tony. T O N I. Who was her brother, Tony. T O N Y's friend.

Tichina Arnold (21:14)

I don't know any of this.

Lena Waithe (21:17)

And the wardrobe they had you in with the Kunta Kitte hat and the damn.

Tichina Arnold (21:21)

Oh, my God. I.

Lena Waithe (21:21)

The yellow, like, sh. Shirts and whatnot.

Tichina Arnold (21:24)

It's funny because I worked with the executive producer of that, Don Rio. Don Rio also executive produced Wife and Kids, probably around our third season. I was like, yeah. So when I was in Blossom, he was like, wait, you was in Blossom? I was like, I'm glad my work was so memorable, Don.

Lena Waithe (21:44)

I recall it well.

Tichina Arnold (21:45)

Future, yo. So I was like, I didn't. I don't remember that.

Lena Waithe (21:53)

I was like, crazy. I used to love Blossom. And I just want to know what was that like for you being on that set? Come on, Joey. Like, that was my shit. Oh.

Tichina Arnold (22:01)

I've known Joey since he was a little boy, so it was kind of fun being on that set.

Lena Waithe (22:07)

Was it just, like, a fun thing, or were you like. Cause you were there for two hours.

Tichina Arnold (22:10)

Are you gonna make me tell why I got kind of what happened? Yeah.

Lena Waithe (22:15)

Cause I'm like, whoa.

Tichina Arnold (22:16)

Well, you know, there were tons of kids in the audience. Cause they had a studio audience, right? So there were tons of kids in the audience. And I had forgotten a line. I made a mistake and said cold snap. And I never came back because the whole audience was like, ooh, yeah. And I was like, oh, my God. I just cursed in front of a ton of children.

Lena Waithe (22:41)

A short stint.

Tichina Arnold (22:44)

That's what happened. Short.

Lena Waithe (22:45)

But I love Blossom cover.

Tichina Arnold (22:47)

Ah, that's cool. I forgot I was on that shit.

Lena Waithe (22:51)

It was nice to revisit it. It was nice to go back.

Tichina Arnold (22:53)

That's very funny.

Lena Waithe (22:54)

Now we've come to a landmark credit. This is one that I've studied, I've watched, I've loved. A lot of us have gotten our personalities from this show. I'm talking about Martin. I want to know how you got the part first, and then I'll go from there.

Tichina Arnold (23:12)

Okay? So we had just finished doing Boomerang. They had a premiere in New York. A very big premiere. Yeah, right.

Lena Waithe (23:22)

Everybody.

Tichina Arnold (23:22)

Everybody was in that mug, right? So I'm at the premiere, after the premiere, I'm walking, and Martin is sitting next to Diana Ross. And I was like, oh, he's sitting next to Diana. This boy came up, right?

Lena Waithe (23:38)

Diana Ross was at this premiere.

Tichina Arnold (23:40)

She was at the premiere. So I walk over to him. He was like, tisha, yo, I don't know what it's gonna be. It's gonna be a movie or it's gonna be a series, but I want you to play my girlfriend. And I was like, okay, Martin, that's fine. He was like, no, I'm serious. I was like, okay, Martin. Cause, you know, so many people say that to you, and you don't take it seriously until you see a cop, right? Cut to. I had just finished doing a pilot that didn't get picked up right away, but found out that it was a mid season and they had. My contract had already run out. But when they picked it up for mid season, they had. They were redoing my contract at the same time. Martin called me and said, I'm doing this series. And I was like, I'm so sorry, Martin. I can't do it. My pilot just got picked up for like, seven, 13 episodes. And he was like, tisha, you can't say no. And I was like, martin, I'm really sorry. I can't do it. And he was like, I'm coming over to the house, right? Where do you live? And I was like, well, me and my mom live. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? Comes over to me. He was like, I need to talk to you. I was like, martin, it's already picked up. Yours is just a pilot. What am I gonna do? And he was like, I need for you to rock with me. I need for you to be my friend. Like, just, you know, come do this show. And so I sat There. And I was like, something kept telling me, I need to do his show. Not the one that was already picked up. I need to be with this guy. And this is where it just kept saying, you gotta say yes. You gotta say yes. And I was like, okay, Martin, yes, I'll tell them. No. He was like, okay, bet. Wow. That's how I got it.

Lena Waithe (25:30)

What was that? First table read like fun.

Tichina Arnold (25:33)

We were all friends. We all knew each other. Everybody. First of all, here was the brilliant part of it all. They surrounded Martin with everybody who everybody there were from the theater. Me, Tichina, Carl, Tommy. We were all lesbians. And. And it really gave him support and structure so that he could just do whatever he wanted to do. And because we had so much chemistry in House Party, we had one scene together in House Party.

Lena Waithe (26:11)

Yes.

Tichina Arnold (26:12)

Right. Where he asked me for the dance. And he never forgot. Martin is like an elephant. He don't forget nothing. He never forgot the chemistry we had. So it just made sense that he was surrounded by people who could really support him.

Lena Waithe (26:27)

How was it doing the scene, obviously, when you and Martin are in the bedroom having your private conversation.

Tichina Arnold (26:33)

Okay.

Lena Waithe (26:33)

And you kind of threatened to kind of, like walk out on him. That's fun.

Tichina Arnold (26:37)

Oh, in the pilot.

Lena Waithe (26:38)

Yeah, yeah.

Tichina Arnold (26:38)

Yes.

Lena Waithe (26:39)

It's such. It's a beautiful dance between the two of you. And he's being so funny. And you don't get to break. You don't get to laugh. It's really just such a great straight man in that. In that episode. But particularly that scene. How was that filming that particular scene for the two of you?

Tichina Arnold (26:53)

It just felt so real. Yeah, we felt connected. We were. We were real friends. And so anything that we did, we trusted the other person.

Lena Waithe (27:04)

Right.

Tichina Arnold (27:05)

And he often calls me his Lucille Ball.

Lena Waithe (27:08)

I mean, it's a fair. A fair comparison, really.

Tichina Arnold (27:11)

I honestly learned so much from him. But whenever I'm working with, particularly a comedian who will go off the rails and ad lib at any moment, my job to me was that I help to capture everything that he does. So I wasn't allowed. In my mind. This is what I said to myself. I'm not allowed to break. I don't want to break. Because if I break, if I laugh in the scene, then we could lose some of his magic. We had to capture his magic. Cause he's magical on scene. The thing about Martin that makes him so different is that I've incorporated it in my own style whenever I'm doing multi camera is that he tries to find funny between the lines. And So I always knew between every line, anything could happen. Like there was this one where he almost got me, where he was supposed to say, oh, Gina, don't be the pot calling the kettle black. And we were supposed to be in this intense argument, but what comes out is, ah, Gina, don't be the pot calling the kettle and the kettle calling the pot. Right. And you could see my eyes go. But what it did was it absolutely flipped the scene. I was still supposed to be yelling at him. Instead, I said, okay, hold on. As my. I think we were husband and wife at that point in the show. As my husband or boyfriend, let me calm this situation. And we did a whole nother take and turn on the resolve of this particular scene. And that's what you had to do with him.

Lena Waithe (29:09)

I mean. Well, he has such a gem in you in that you guys can go through the breakup, you know, episodes.

Tichina Arnold (29:15)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lena Waithe (29:16)

You know, you can go through the couples therapy stuff and you get. Cause you have that ability to play drama so well that you really do ground the show in a way that if we did not have you, Martin, the show itself isn't as amazing and as iconic as it is.

Tichina Arnold (29:35)

That's very kind of you to say.

Lena Waithe (29:36)

It's true. I mean, there's an episode I want to talk to you about called Control, where you have to go work for Shanaynay at her shop to get back the Piston tickets that she basically stole. Okay. In that episode, you having to play with. Yes. Martin Lawrence.

Tichina Arnold (29:57)

She was a real woman to me.

Lena Waithe (29:58)

He's. How are you having to be a straight faced person while dealing with.

Tichina Arnold (30:06)

Well, it was always. I was going to position myself to get on this bitch's nerves. Okay. So whether it was. It wasn't in rehearsal that we found this. We always found this in front of the audience. So I would position my body too close to hers to make her go, get out of my face, you know what I mean? To make her move me, to make her make other decisions.

Lena Waithe (30:31)

Right.

Tichina Arnold (30:32)

So I always was, you know, everybody stop. You know, and she would fight me on just me trying to be the peacemaker. So anything that I could do to get on her fucking nerves was what I would do.

Lena Waithe (30:47)

What was that week like when you knew most of your stuff for that episode was gonna be in that salon playing against Martin as Shanay and with the hair. With the hair makeover as well.

Tichina Arnold (31:01)

It was always fun when he was playing a character. Getting into that makeup was a lot for him. Right. But once he was on set and he was playing These different characters, like, I always talk about this. But Martin would never let us see certain characters until we were in front of the camera.

Lena Waithe (31:22)

Wow.

Tichina Arnold (31:23)

So we wouldn't see her outside. We wouldn't see what Jerome had on. Cause he always had on some bullshit. He just wouldn't let us see them so that we could have a reaction in real time.

Lena Waithe (31:38)

Wow.

Tichina Arnold (31:40)

I started watching the show because millennials and Gen Zs really enjoy the show. And they often run up to me and quote, shit at me. And I don't know what the fuck they're talking about, right? That's why I started watching the show.

Lena Waithe (31:54)

Because I gotta go to work on Myra's feet. Are you kidd.

Tichina Arnold (31:58)

I would be like this. What are they talking about?

Lena Waithe (32:00)

Like, because we watch it every day, right?

Tichina Arnold (32:03)

So one of my millennial friends, she said to me one day, she says, look at the white shoes. And I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? And she said, that's from the Martin Show. I said, is it? I mean, she was like, I'm a Google it. I said, bitch, ain't no way you going to Google something. Look at the white shoes. And sure enough, there it was. It's there the whole scene. But then I realized, I said, let me tell you what really happened. So Martin wouldn't let us see his outfit. So when I opened the door and he goes, ooh, ooh, look at the white shoes. He was telling me and Tichina to look at his white shoes because they were so dope and dumb. Look at the white. So he was goin, look at the white shoes. Look at the white shoes. And both of us look dumb. But it was an inside joke that winded up being one of the euphemisms that. Most of the euphemisms that come from the Martin show, whether it's, you go, girl. What's up? A little something something. There were so many euphemisms and quotes that came from that show. The talk to the hand shit. When we first started doing that and we heard that people were doing it that Thursday, that next day, on Friday, the next day, I'm like, why is everybody doing that? Somebody's gonna get their hand cut off. Like, that's. This is not real life. This is play. Play. But we really had that effect and didn't know it until after syndication. We didn't really understand our effect.

Lena Waithe (33:30)

Sheesh. One of the last episodes I wanna talk about is an episode called Love is a Beach, which is the wedding episode where, with Babyface, it's such a beautiful.

Tichina Arnold (33:42)

I Don't remember everything. So you're gonna have to fill me in.

Lena Waithe (33:45)

It's a beautiful montage that's shown when he. You are so beautiful. And obviously, he's singing that on the beach. But then it cuts to all of your couples moments and all these different things. And it's still emotional in watching it as an audience member, because we really do get to watch you two actors do such a beautiful job of playing with each other, being silly, going through the things that couples actually go through and then making it to this moment. And it almost felt like an accomplishment for us. The culture, they're getting bigger.

Tichina Arnold (34:17)

We're married. We're all married.

Lena Waithe (34:19)

And it's just such a beautiful episode. You're obviously beautiful in it. And I love that Shanaynnay comes back and ultimately does your hair for your wedding. And it's beautiful and it's stunning. She does. Shenane does your hair.

Tichina Arnold (34:32)

That's so funny. I don't remember.

Lena Waithe (34:34)

Yeah. And I'm just curious what is. You know, I've written weddings and things like that on my TV shows.

Tichina Arnold (34:41)

Yeah.

Lena Waithe (34:41)

The weird thing is, when we're doing it and we're in production, it feels like a real.

Tichina Arnold (34:45)

It does feel like a wedd. Right, Right.

Lena Waithe (34:47)

I feel like I literally lived through that. What was that for you all at that time?

Tichina Arnold (34:51)

Oh, it was just. It was like an accomplishment.

Lena Waithe (34:53)

Yeah.

Tichina Arnold (34:54)

It made us feel like our show, our characters all graduated together.

Lena Waithe (35:02)

Well, I mean, I think that's why the show feels so familial while it feels so special. And we really, the millennials, have claimed it as our own.

Tichina Arnold (35:12)

Yes.

Lena Waithe (35:12)

It's ours. We will never let it go.

Tichina Arnold (35:15)

That's fine.

Lena Waithe (35:15)

We're grateful that Marc convinced you. Cause none of us can imagine that show without any of you there.

Tichina Arnold (35:21)

Oh, thank you.

Lena Waithe (35:23)

So thank you. Thank you for that, truly. Okay. You've already mentioned this next credit, and it's one that I love. I did a series based on this movie, Boomerang.

Tichina Arnold (35:34)

Boomerang. You did a good job, too.

Lena Waithe (35:37)

I tried. I mean, it's like Boomerang. It's okay to call it an obsession. Like, for a lot of us, it was just, you know, with VHS and DVD and being able to watch it all the time.

Tichina Arnold (35:48)

Oh, yeah.

Lena Waithe (35:49)

That's the thing about your work is there's so much rewatchability to it.

Tichina Arnold (35:52)

Yeah.

Lena Waithe (35:52)

That even though I know what you're gonna say, I know what's happening. I don't care. I wanna be there again and again. And to watch your scenes in Boomerang. Playing Yvonne Marcus, neighbor, okay? Who went on one date with him, and apparently it was whack. All right?

Tichina Arnold (36:07)

But how can I please tell you what happened?

Lena Waithe (36:11)

How are you across that fucking fence just slaying Eddie Murphy and him allowing you to do it?

Tichina Arnold (36:18)

Okay, I was a nervous wreck because I was like, oh, my God, Martin's in this, David's in this. John Witherspoon, Claude Witherspoon, everybody's in this.

Lena Waithe (36:27)

Everybody's in this damn movie. And that's why you need to be there as well.

Tichina Arnold (36:31)

I said, okay. I said, I gotta figure out what to say. Say, like, in these scenes, I only got three pages, right? But I know they gonna be ad libbing, so let me try to figure something out. And I was racking my brain and racking my brain. And then finally I asked my boyfriend at the time, I was like, hey. Cause he. He, you know, he could do comedy a little bit. And I was like, yo, you know something I could say right here, he was like, ah, say what? You. About my height, My. My weight. Doggy style, right? Doggy style, right? And so I was. I looked at him, I was like, this shit is stupid. Fuck you. Right? Just forget it. I'll do it myself, right? So then by the time I get to Bubble Hill, which is where rehearsals were, we were all rehearsing in Eddie's basement. Robin's there, Reggie's there. And so now it's the time. I'm. I'm trying to ad lib, but I'm nervous. And so I just. I spewed it out. You know what, you. Bout my size, my height, my weight, doggy style. Eddie turns, he looks, Reggie's staring at me. Robin's mouth is dropped down to her.

Lena Waithe (37:44)

Robin's in there?

Tichina Arnold (37:45)

Yeah. And I was like this. I'mma quit him when I get back. Fuck him. I'mma quit his ass. I hate him. See, now I'm gonna get fired. Fuck him. You thought it was, baby. I thought it was awful because they was just staring at me. And it's for what seemed like forever. And then all of a sudden, they started laughing. Eddie falls out onto the couch. And I was like, phew. I'm not. I'm not gonna quit. I'm the truth. Wow.

Lena Waithe (38:13)

Well, boomerang is iconic forever, and you are part of that. Your scene in that movie are unforgettable.

Tichina Arnold (38:22)

Thank you.

Lena Waithe (38:23)

And I just. I had. It was a joy watching them back, truly.

Tichina Arnold (38:27)

Thank you.

Lena Waithe (38:27)

Now, the next movie I'm gonna talk about is one that I actually asked my mom If I could go see it on my birthday, this movie. And it shows you what was happening when I was a 12 year old. But you are in this movie with some really funny heavyweights. Paula J. Parker.

Tichina Arnold (38:44)

Sprung.

Lena Waithe (38:45)

Sprung.

Tichina Arnold (38:46)

Really?

Lena Waithe (38:47)

I went to go see this movie and. Cause I think I was just such a fan of yours.

Tichina Arnold (38:53)

Aww.

Lena Waithe (38:53)

That I was like, that's what I want to do. And my mom was like, you can't even old enough to see this movie. But like, come on. And me and my friends, junior high went to go see Sprung. Can you talk to me about what it was like working on that movie for you?

Tichina Arnold (39:07)

I love Rusty.

Lena Waithe (39:08)

Yeah, Rusty.

Tichina Arnold (39:09)

I got to work with Rusty. Well, he was an actor on school days. Right. But Rusty is also a filmmaker. And so, you know, he had called me and told me about the film. It was in between seasons of the Martin show.

Lena Waithe (39:25)

Okay.

Tichina Arnold (39:26)

So I got to do that in between.

Lena Waithe (39:28)

Nice.

Tichina Arnold (39:28)

And it was just really nice to be able to work with him.

Lena Waithe (39:32)

What did you think when you read that script?

Tichina Arnold (39:34)

I thought it was so good.

Lena Waithe (39:36)

And who did you want Brandi to be?

Tichina Arnold (39:38)

I kind of put more of myself into it. The person that I knew I was at that moment.

Lena Waithe (39:43)

Wow. Did you have hopes of being back in film because you were doing so much tv, obviously, on Martin. Is that something that made you want to say, you know what, I'll go do this movie?

Tichina Arnold (39:54)

No, I was just wanting to work. I was supporting a lot of. Lot of individuals. So I stopped my movie career. We're talking about movies, right. I stopped doing my movie career and kind of concentrated on doing television.

Lena Waithe (40:09)

Yes.

Tichina Arnold (40:10)

Because it was more helpful and lucrative for the people that needed me. I could have made other different choices and I didn't. I'm doing that now. Every decision that I make now is for me, not for other people. But at the time, everything I was doing was to make sure that everybody ate well.

Lena Waithe (40:37)

What was really dope about the Sprung soundtrack is that you reconnect with Tichina Arnold and you do a cover.

Tichina Arnold (40:46)

I forced her to do that with me.

Lena Waithe (40:47)

You do a cover? I tricked her on Ask My Neighbor.

Tichina Arnold (40:49)

Yeah.

Lena Waithe (40:50)

Yeah. Which is a beautiful cover. It's a beautiful song.

Tichina Arnold (40:52)

Yeah. Thank you.

Lena Waithe (40:53)

Was that something you just wanted to do for the soundtrack or they asked you?

Tichina Arnold (40:56)

I knew I wanted to do something for the soundtrack.

Lena Waithe (40:58)

Okay.

Tichina Arnold (40:59)

But I may have even been a little afraid to do it on my own. And so I tricked her ass. I was like, t, I gotta go somewhere. And so we get to the studio, she was like, oh, you singing today? And I was like, no, bitch, you singing today, too? We singing Today.

Lena Waithe (41:15)

Did a music video and everything.

Tichina Arnold (41:16)

We did.

Lena Waithe (41:17)

I love that cover. I thought it was so great. Y' all actually really introduced me to that song, even though I think I kind of knew it.

Tichina Arnold (41:22)

Yeah, you too young to know that.

Lena Waithe (41:24)

Song introduced it to me.

Tichina Arnold (41:26)

Yeah. Yeah.

Lena Waithe (41:26)

And I'm grateful for that.

Tichina Arnold (41:27)

Thank you.

Lena Waithe (41:27)

You know what I mean? Let's throw this.

Tichina Arnold (41:29)

It was fun.

Lena Waithe (41:29)

Think of the crates real quick.

Tichina Arnold (41:30)

Anytime I could trick Tichina into doing something, it's a great day.

Lena Waithe (41:34)

Y' all sound so good together now, getting back into TV world.

Tichina Arnold (41:37)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lena Waithe (41:38)

You take on being, you know, next to a big comedian again in Damon Wayans. Damon, but this time you're a mother as well as a wife.

Tichina Arnold (41:50)

Yeah.

Lena Waithe (41:51)

And you're going back to work in the pilot episode of this one.

Tichina Arnold (41:55)

Yeah.

Lena Waithe (41:56)

How did my wife and kids come into your life in the role of Janet?

Tichina Arnold (41:59)

This is a bit of a lump story.

Lena Waithe (42:01)

You have the floor.

Tichina Arnold (42:02)

Okay, great. So. Oh, I snuck into that bitch. Oh, yes. I snuck into that fucking audition because I'm a friend of the family. I even say I'm Tisha Campbell Wayans, right? So I'm a friend of the family. They know me. They love me. I love all of them. So I called my agent. I was like, why haven't I gotten an audition? They was like, listen, we tried to get you in. You know, everybody says you're a friend of the family. The Wayans love you. Damon loves you. But he just, you know, I don't know if he sees himself playing opposite of Gina for the next five years. So he doesn't really, you know, he wants some new blood. And I was like, oh, I totally understand. That called Tichina. I was like, yo, T, when's your next audition? She's like, oh. Oh, yeah. I got a call back. It's on. Blah, blah, blah, blah. I was like, yo, send me when your audition is. I'm about to crash that bitch. She was like, all right. So I start getting dressed, put on my little skirt. I call my agent when I'm driving on my way there. And I said, listen, I'm about to crash this audition. I just wanted to let you know you should never do that. You shouldn't do that. You're gonna ruin your career. I can't believe you're doing this. Please don't do this. I was like, oh, my God, you're so negative. Click. So then I. I get to Disney Studios, right? And I'm looking. I'm in line, I see a brother security guard, and I see another security guard, right? And I was like, oh, I hope I get the brother, because the brother let me in. Ranibi, right? So I pull up, the brother goes on break. And I'm like, ah, right? So he's gone. And the other security guard goes, name. I gave him my name. He was like, you're not here. And I was like, oh, my God, I can't believe my agent did this to me again. Oh, my God. Can you look again? Can you look under Campbell or. Or Tisha? And he was like, I'll look again. I was like, yeah, please, this is horrible. And so he goes, he looks. He's like, you're not here. And I was like, oh, my God, I can't believe this. I'm already late. I'm literally full on tears. And he goes, well, there's a lot of people that look like you today that was here, you know, coming in, so I'll just let you in. Yeah, some racist shit, but it made me get in. So I'm like. I was like, oh, my God, thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. I drive on the lot. At the same time, my agent calls me as I'm driving onto the lot. He was like, yeah, I got you on the line. I was like, I got myself on a lot, right? So he goes, what? Okay, listen, I told the producers that you're on your way in and they are pissed. Damon's not here yet. They don't know how he's gonna react. I just think. I just think you should hide when you get up in there. I said, what? I'm a grown ass woman. I ain't hiding from shit. Please. He was like, tisha, I'm begging you, don't do this. You are really gonna ruin your kid. There you go with that negativity again. Click, right? So park my car, go inside. I'm sitting there, I ain't got to lose because don't nobody want me here anyway, right? So I'm just sitting there chilling. I'm not even going over my lines. I'm watching everybody else. You know, they're studying. And. And then I think about. And I go, well, you know what? Damon's not here yet, so maybe I should go live. So I gather up my stuff, I stand up and I start walking towards this room. But I run smack dab into Damon. And he goes, hey, hey, T. I was like, hey, day, where's this time? And he was like, oh, okay. And we hug. He was like, he said, I guess I'll see you in there. It's like, okay, see you in there. And then I just sit my stuff back down and start laughing. Because I was like, the producers don't want me. Nobody wants me here. Damon's probably pissed. I'm about to have a good ass fucking time. He tells me later that he slammed the door when he went inside. He was like, what the fuck is Tisha Campbell doing here? Right? So. So I already knew I was screwed up, right? So I went in there. He read Opposite of Me, which was really nice of him. Cause he didn't have to because I fucking crashed. And we were on the edge of our seats, we were ad libbing, we were going back and forth. The chemistry was so undeniable. By the time I finished my audition, I was like, oh, Damon, good luck with everything. Because I was like, I ain't get this shit. Good luck with everything. And as I walk out, my agent calls me like that. It was that fast, right? I'm just gathering my stuff. And I was like, hello? He was like, what did you do? I said, what I do? Cause that's when it hit me. I just snuck into this mother. I just snuck into this audition. Oh, my God, what am I doing here, right? And he was like, you just got a call back. They just called me saying how much they loved you. And I was like, wait, wait, wait, let me get outside. Let me get outside. I'm not even outside yet. So I ran outside and. And my heart is now palpitating because I'm like, I have lost my freaking mind. I do not recommend y' all sneak it into auditions. Don't follow my lead. But it worked out for me. And that's how I got it.

Lena Waithe (47:30)

What was it like being on set, sort of in a new family. And of course, you don't know how long the show is going to go for. It does have a beautiful life.

Tichina Arnold (47:37)

Well, it was really weird because I wasn't a mother yet. So playing someone's mother. All I knew was yelling. That's what my mother did to me. Sorry, Ma. But it's true. But I had to learn the nuances of motherhood. As we're filming the pilot, he's like, damon said, tisha. He's such a family man. He said, tisha, I really feel like this is gonna get picked up. It's time for you to get pregnant. If you wanna get pregnant, you should get pregnant now. Cause we gonna be here for a while. I think we gonna be here. Wow. And he was so open. He built a nursery in my dressing room. Like, he's just such a family man. And being on a show like that was so wonderful because we would pass each other in the hallways, like, a billion times and hug like we never saw each other. It was one of those rare moments in time where there was so much love from the entire crew. The cast, above the line, below the line. We would all hang out together. It was just one of the most fun, safe environment I had ever been on. So it was really beautiful.

Lena Waithe (48:52)

Well, look, I mean, it's another one of those long runs, and people love it. And I think it's such a rare thing when you can have an actor be a part of two shows where the lightning strikes. I think of Martin as a pillar, obviously, of television, and my wife and kids was very much that as well. And the fact that I got to watch it around and see you be a part of both, it speaks to you, being a constant again in the work. Last but not least, with this credit, it's a reuniting with someone where we began with talking about Everybody Still Hates Chris.

Tichina Arnold (49:26)

I know.

Lena Waithe (49:27)

I love doing that show up as Peaches. And Everybody Still Hates Block Parties episode where you appear and you and, well, Tichina's character are going back and forth about Mac and cheese. My question is, did you. Did you two get to be in the studio together? You didn't? Well, even though you and Tichina weren't in the same room together, as I knew this would be how I wanted to wrap it up, it was such a heartwarming and beautiful thing to watch these animated characters, but still to hear both of your voices, you and Tichina.

Tichina Arnold (49:57)

Well, you know, Tichina was like, you gotta get Tisha. I want Tisha in this.

Lena Waithe (50:02)

It's just such a beautiful thing to go from, obviously, watching Little Shop of Horrors into at the beginning of this journey and watching you two as these animated characters and hearing your beautiful voices. Thank you. Together. Thank you.

Tichina Arnold (50:13)

We're still together.

Lena Waithe (50:14)

Still together.

Tichina Arnold (50:15)

Still doing some things, too. I can't talk about it.

Lena Waithe (50:18)

Okay. Okay. I mean, what was that like for you to come be a part of Everybody so Hates Chris?

Tichina Arnold (50:25)

Loved it. I was so honored. And I actually play, like, several characters on that show, so it's. It's always fun to do that and be a part of it. And that my sister called me and made sure that I was a part of it was pretty dope.

Lena Waithe (50:43)

I mean, it's just such a rare thing, you know, in this industry to find people that are your people that you get to make art with.

Tichina Arnold (50:51)

Yeah.

Lena Waithe (50:51)

And you all have made a ton of art. You were just next to each other, voices together, singing together. Obviously. You two, I think, kind of became iconic as Gina and Pam together. You're just this beautiful duo, and I.

Tichina Arnold (51:04)

Think we'll always be the bitch can't get rid of me.

Lena Waithe (51:07)

Look, the Thelma and Louise the Loose.

Tichina Arnold (51:11)

She can't get rid of me. She tried. She can't.

Lena Waithe (51:13)

You two are a duo that we never get tired of.

Tichina Arnold (51:16)

Aw, thank you.

Lena Waithe (51:17)

It's a friendship we all can admire, and we've got a chance to watch in real time over the years. And so we're really grateful to see.

Tichina Arnold (51:24)

And you know what? I just have to say, I'm really grateful for you. No, ma'. Am. We. We had a chance to sit and talk. Sit and talk.

Lena Waithe (51:34)

Yeah.

Tichina Arnold (51:34)

And it was a really dark time for me, and I just appreciate your ear. I thank you because you inspired me to be who I really wanted to be, and that is a storyteller and a filmmaker.

Lena Waithe (52:00)

Wow. Well, thank you so much for that.

Tichina Arnold (52:02)

You didn't know that.

Lena Waithe (52:03)

Did not.

Tichina Arnold (52:04)

That's why it was so easy for me to say yes, because I needed a second to say that to you. Well, we about to lean away this shit.

Lena Waithe (52:15)

Well, I mean. Well, you just. Tisha Campbell, this is because I think I've always thought of you as a storyteller.

Tichina Arnold (52:22)

Thank you.

Lena Waithe (52:22)

Because as we can see in this conversation we've had today, how many stories you continue to tell as Jane Toussaint, as Josie, Sydney, Gina, Brandy, so many characters that we've gotten a chance to watch you. You embody. You breathe life into these women. And in each single one, you don't judge. You love on all of them. Gotta love them equally. And I think that's why they all stick and remain. Last question. What's your definition of a really great actress?

Tichina Arnold (52:58)

Someone who really, truly understands the art form, who embodies the art form, who understands that they're an artist, that their job, their job is to master human emotions. That's their job. And just like with Shakespeare or the Harlem Renaissance, we have the power to help people. We have the power to help people forget their freaking problems. We have the power to change mindsets, remember, and be responsible with that power. That's all I got to say.

Lena Waithe (53:39)

Well, thank you for taking on that responsibility.

Tichina Arnold (53:44)

Thank you.

Lena Waithe (53:44)

I'm all grateful for it and for you and how much you've given us. So much laughter.

Tichina Arnold (53:51)

Thank you.

Lena Waithe (53:51)

But you've also given us a lot to think about and a lot to sit with.

Tichina Arnold (53:54)

Thanks, man.

Lena Waithe (53:55)

And a lot to ponder. And as I watch all your work, I couldn't help but just write down comedy and drama and music, and there are very few that I can do that with, and you're one of the few. You're singular.

Tichina Arnold (54:11)

Thank you so.

Lena Waithe (54:12)

Thank you so much.

Tichina Arnold (54:13)

You're welcome.

Lena Waithe (54:15)

That's a cut.