Building a Legacy with Gina Prince-Bythewood

Summary

Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe: In-Depth Conversation with Lynn on "Love & Basketball" and Beyond

Released on November 19, 2024

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Introduction

In this episode of Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe, host Gina Prince-Bythewood engages in a profound conversation with acclaimed filmmaker Lynn. The discussion delves into Lynn's seminal work, "Love & Basketball," its enduring legacy, the intricacies of casting, the collaborative relationships that shape a film, and the broader themes that permeate Lynn's body of work. This summary encapsulates the key points, insights, and reflections shared during their dialogue.

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"Love & Basketball": Creation and Impact

Lynn opens the conversation by reflecting on the creation of "Love & Basketball," emphasizing its personal significance and the challenges faced during its development.

• Personal Connection: Gina remarks, "I watched Loving Basketball again this weekend in prep for this... there's so much of you in the movie." Lynn confirms, "I think you are a big part of that. The movie is such a reflection of who you are."

• Legacy and Preservation: Gina notes, "the movie is now in the Library of Congress, which means it'll be preserved forever," to which Lynn responds, "Forever, man, forever."

• Overcoming Doubts: Lynn shares her initial fears about the film's reception, questioning, "Who am I to believe that my story deserves a platform like a movie?" However, she expresses profound gratitude for the film's positive embrace, highlighting its role in shifting narratives and inspiring new generations.

Notable Quote:

Lynn [03:26]: "It was an amazing thing to be able to do that, to use it as therapy, but also to put so much personal things in there."

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Casting and Collaborative Relationships

A significant portion of the conversation centers on the casting process and the collaborative relationships that were pivotal in bringing "Love & Basketball" to life.

• Casting Sanaa Lathan: Lynn discusses the rigorous casting process for the character Monica, emphasizing the importance of authenticity in portraying an athlete. Despite initial challenges, "Sanaa's audition was great. Had such good chemistry with Omar. There was just no denying it," Lynn affirms.

• Working with Aisha Kohli: The partnership with casting director Aisha Kohli is highlighted as a cornerstone of Lynn's success. Lynn praises Aisha's creativity and dedication, stating, "She's been very helpful in that, but she's brilliant at what she does."

• Chemistry with Cast Members: Lynn reflects on the undeniable chemistry between Omar and Sanaa, describing their interaction as "like lightning in a bottle."

Notable Quote:

Gina [07:42]: "What should a relationship between director and cast and director look like?"

Lynn [07:46]: "Aisha has been very helpful in that, but she's brilliant at what she does."

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Director-Editor Dynamics: A Bond with Terry Shropshire

Lynn emphasizes the critical role of editors in filmmaking, sharing her experience collaborating with Terry Shropshire.

• Choosing the Right Editor: Lynn recounts her meticulous search for an editor who could elevate her footage, ultimately finding Terry through a recommendation from Spike. She notes, "A good editor can protect you or make your footage better. A bad editor can take great footage and kill your film."

• Passionate Collaboration: The handwritten letter Terry sent after their initial meeting left a lasting impression on Lynn, fostering a deep professional bond. Lynn states, "Terry makes me better. It is such an incredible collaboration."

Notable Quote:

Lynn [18:25]: "After the meeting, she wrote me this five page letter. It just expressed her love of the material, her connection to the material, but also had notes."

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The Art of Music in Filmmaking

The conversation shifts to the integral role of music in Lynn's films, illustrating how it enhances storytelling without overshadowing it.

• Inspiration from Film School: Lynn credits her film school education and films like "The Graduate" with shaping her understanding of music's narrative power. She explains, "It always amplified the feelings or the emotions within scene, but it never took over."

• Securing Iconic Tracks: Lynn shares the story behind using Maxwell's music in "Love & Basketball," highlighting the challenges of budgeting and the eventual success after securing approval from New Line’s Mike DeLuca.

Notable Quote:

Lynn [20:35]: "Maxwell was a great example of that... we played it at Sundance. That moment got such a huge reaction."

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Original Works vs. Adaptations: Navigating Creative Challenges

Lynn discusses the complexities of creating original content compared to adapting existing works.

• The Difficulty of Original Writing: Lynn openly admits the emotional and mental toll of writing from scratch, describing it as "tears and low self-esteem." Despite the hardships, she finds solace and growth in the process.

• Respecting Source Material in Adaptations: When adapting books, Lynn emphasizes the importance of honoring the original work while injecting her unique vision. She remarks, "That book needs to be my bible and not a blueprint. I just feel it's disrespectful to take someone's things."

Notable Quote:

Lynn [22:00]: "Adaptations, you have the structure and you have the characters there. So I still do the same things I do, which is, you know, all my character work."

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Overcoming Industry Challenges: Perseverance and Resilience

Lynn shares her personal journey of overcoming rejection and setbacks in the film industry, drawing parallels to her athletic background.

• Facing Rejection: Recalling her rejection from UCLA film school, Lynn describes her determination to prove her worth, saying, "How can I take. No, this is my dream. So let me tell them why they made a mistake."

• Athletic Metaphors: Lynn likens her approach to filmmaking and career advancement to her experiences as a sprinter, emphasizing the importance of resilience and relentless effort.

Notable Quote:

Lynn [32:08]: "I got rejected to this day, even saying it like, ugh, what? But it was one of the worst days of my life."

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Exploring Themes: Sisterhood, Healing, and Black Womanhood

Lynn delves into the recurring themes in her work, highlighting her commitment to portraying the depth and complexity of Black women.

• Sisterhood and Connectivity: Lynn articulates, "Black women are not exalted. We don't get to see our humanity... to show our connectivity." She underscores the societal importance of these portrayals both on screen and in real life.

• Healing and Personal Growth: Each of Lynn's projects serves as a medium for her personal healing, reflecting her introspection on childhood impacts and the quest to break free from past traumas.

Notable Quote:

Lynn [26:19]: "Each film is allowing me to continue to heal myself from a lot of shit. That. That is the theme that I come back to the most."

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Industry Changes: Progress and Persistent Barriers

The discussion turns to the evolution of the film industry, noting both advancements in diversity and the enduring challenges faced by Black female directors.

• Increased Content Diversity: Lynn acknowledges the positive shift towards more diverse storytelling, yet points out the industry's ongoing preference for repetitive narratives.

• Representation Statistics: Highlighting the stark underrepresentation, Lynn states, "Black female directors, 1.2% over the last 10 years. It's insane."

• Award Recognition: Lynn expresses the significance of recognition for Black female directors, noting that none have been nominated for Best Director at the Oscars despite decades of outstanding contributions.

Notable Quote:

Lynn [33:24]: "Black female directors, 1.2% over the last 10 years. It's insane."

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Mentorship and Personal Relationships

Gina reflects on her personal growth and mentorship under Lynn, illustrating the profound impact of their professional relationship.

• Growth Through Mentorship: Gina shares, "you represent greatness. And so I think I'm always trying to chase that." highlighting how Lynn's guidance has shaped her career.

• Encouraging Authenticity: Lynn values Gina's commitment to her own voice, emphasizing the importance of individuality in creative expression.

Notable Quote:

Gina [40:02]: "You represent greatness. And so I think I'm always trying to chase that."

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Defining a Great Movie: Emotional Resonance

Towards the end of the conversation, Lynn offers her perspective on what constitutes a truly impactful film.

• Emotional Depth: Lynn defines a great movie as one that "moves me and makes me feel, even after I've left the theater," using "12 Years a Slave" as a prime example of lasting emotional impact.

Notable Quote:

Lynn [38:14]: "One that moves me and makes me feel, even after I've left the theater, that it transcends those two hours and takes me emotionally to places that I never thought I would go."

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Conclusion

Gina and Lynn wrap up their heartfelt discussion by acknowledging each other's growth and contributions to the industry. The episode serves as a testament to the power of storytelling, resilience, and the unwavering pursuit of authentic representation in entertainment.

Final Exchange:

Gina [40:40]: "Appreciate."

Lynn [40:41]: "Love you, too, homie."

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This episode of Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe offers invaluable insights into the creative and emotional journeys of filmmakers striving to redefine narratives and uplift Black women in entertainment. Lynn's candid reflections provide both inspiration and a roadmap for aspiring artists navigating the complexities of the industry.

Transcript

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

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[Lynn]

Lemonade.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

What part of you did you leave out of loving basketball?

[Lynn]

Oh, damn. Never been asked that in my entire life.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Legacy, oh legacy oh.

[Lynn]

First time that you showed me your script. Super scary for me because like, is this going to end our friendship? Because if it sucks, how do you.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Think I feel giving a woman a rate love of basketball her first go a script?

[Lynn]

This industry is exponentially harder for us. There is no denying that you have to outwork everybody. And not everybody is built for that.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Legacy, oh legacy. Juan, thank you so much for sitting down talking to me.

[Lynn]

Always.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

When I was your assistant, many moons ago, I don't know how long ago. Oh, we got the bee secret life of bees. Got it tatted. Okay. When I would talk to people about you, I would say, you know, Gina, Prince Beithelet. And they would kind of go, love and basketball. Oh yeah. I ended up saying lovin basketball as many times as I would say your name.

[Lynn]

Of course.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

I watched Loving Basketball again this weekend in prep for this. And it's also really interesting to watch it again as a 40 year old. I know. You're 40. I'm 40 now.

[Lynn]

Shit.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

First time I saw it when I was a teenager. Damn, you gotta do it with Kevin Hart, Don Cheadle. And obviously I see so many more things and just understand just how significant the movie is. And as a person who is telling stories and making media myself, I'm like bowled over by it. My first question for you is, do you ever get sick of talking about love and basketball?

[Lynn]

Hell no. Nah, it is. It's an amazing thing. People still want to watch it. The people want to talk about it. The people are discovering it. It's surreal and it's funny because people do. They come up. I'm sorry, I know you're probably sick of this and I tell them I will Never be tired or sick of somebody telling me that the work moves them. I'm able to walk in a room having that with me. And it allows me to, I don't know, be bolder, be more courageous. Because people associate that with me.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

I think watching it now, knowing you, is such a different experience for me. There's so much of you in the movie. There's so much of your DNA in it. And it made me wonder what part of you did you leave out of Love and Basketball?

[Lynn]

Oh, damn. What did I leave out? I've never been asked that in my entire life. I don't think I did. I think, you know, I often say that you're first film should tell the world who you are.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Yeah.

[Lynn]

And it should be a film only you can tell. Honestly, when I was writing it, because it's such a personal story, that was my fear. Like, who's gonna give a shit about a little black girl who wants to be in the NBA? Like, who's gonna watch that? And who am I to believe that my story deserves a platform like a movie? Like, that's that constant self talk that you have to do. It's an amazing thing to be able to do that, to use it as therapy, but also to put so much personal things in there. When you've spent so much of your life feeling like you were wrong, something was wrong with you. To then people embrace. That's, I think, the most amazing thing. And why that people's embrace of the film is so special, because I didn't feel like that growing up.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

I was thinking about that, I said, I wonder. Cause the movie is now in the Library of Congress, which means it'll be preserved forever.

[Lynn]

Forever, man, forever.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

And it's worthy of that. And I think you are a big part of that. The movie is such a reflection of who you are, I think. And I think you answered it beautifully. It's like you didn't leave anything out. The work is going to continue to meet new generations. They will continue to be in conversation with the work. And when it came out, it was like this breath of fresh air of like, oh, we haven't seen Love of Basketball before and we needed it. And now it feels almost like, oh, that's what you needed then. And now. I'm still in conversation with it now. It's a tribute to you that people kind of were like, what is this? And we want to keep watching it.

[Lynn]

2. Two people I do want to also add into the conversation. Most certainly Reggie Rock.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Yes, Reggie Rock. Bythewood.

[Lynn]

Yeah. Who you know, we were dating at the time that was writing that. To have somebody believe in it as much as I did and that person to, you know, when you're on the floor curled up because you just. Nobody wants to tell the story.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Right.

[Lynn]

To have that person that still believes, that was an amazing thing.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Yes.

[Lynn]

And then my cast, I feel like lightning in a bottle. Omar and Sanaa. There was something about the chemistry that just ignited in that film and has endured.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

There's three women, actually, I wanna talk about because they're sort of a really beautiful trifecta and love of basketball, and they continue to show up throughout the rest of your career, truly. One of those women is Sanaa Lathan.

[Lynn]

Yes. Sanana.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Other person is Aisha Kohli.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

And last but not least, Tara Lynn Shropshire.

[Lynn]

Yes. Boom.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Who I know best of those three spent a lot of time with her. So I want to start with Aisha, if that's okay. Because we're super excited that the Academy is finally going to start recognizing cast and directors. That was your first time working with Aisha Kohli, is that right?

[Lynn]

Yep.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

And it is a. I think, a partnership in our industry that isn't highlighted enough.

[Lynn]

It is not.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

And I think a big part of that is because as I was watching your films and all that kind of stuff was starting with the first one, the flagship movie. What you two did with that cast is something that I think should be studied and spoken about. And that's a big reason why we wanted to have these conversations, because we want this conversation to be something that people can look back at and know what you and Aisha did. You sort of launched not just careers, but really a community of black actors that would set the tone for other filmmakers to cast them and to give them permission to put them on screen again and again and again and again. So just wanted to give you two your flowers for getting there, finding these stars, and giving us all a beautiful palette of actors to watch and grow over time. That being said, what should a relationship between director and cast and director look like?

[Lynn]

Well, foremost, I love that you're highlighting her because she's done every single one of my films, every single one of my TV shows. It's been a 30 year relationship. And honestly, I feel like you're the first person that's ever asked me about our collaboration. You know, there's those first calls that he go. And it's kind of simultaneous. I call Terry and I call Aisha. It's just a given. I was aware of Aisha because she had been Working on Spike's film and all the people that he has discovered and launched. Well, where does that come from? Came from Aisha. So I think she was coming off of Clockers, which I had been fascinated about, the casting of Makai Pfeiffer. And so she came aboard and as your first film, everything is so new. And I knew I wanted Alfrey and I knew I wanted Omar. Wow. And then I knew I wanted a discovery for Monica, Aisha. Like, we did such a. Like I'm saying worldwide, but, you know, American search for Monica to try and find her. And she was so creative. What about Serena Williams? What about Marion Jones? Like this, this. Think outside the box. I'm smiling because I'm working with her now.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

And big, big one.

[Lynn]

A big one. But as you know, late, being late is a big.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Oh, my God.

[Lynn]

Deal.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

I'm mad I didn't beat you here today.

[Lynn]

She learned on that one, like, if an actor was two, three minutes late, I would just.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

You're done.

[Lynn]

I'm done.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Bye. Done.

[Lynn]

But she has helped me grow. Like, it's okay. Like, it's not a reflection of them or their work ethic or their respect for me.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

I love Aisha telling you, okay, look, Angela Bassett was running. Look, there was traffic.

[Lynn]

Literally. Okay, There were a couple very big actors. I was like, uh, so she has. She has been very helpful in that, but she's brilliant at what she does.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Okay, let's talk a little bit about Sanaa. I know it was very difficult to land on your Monica as it should be. And I get that because I've had to cast somebody, you know, that's a bit of a reflection of myself as well. And we're hard on ourselves, so we're really going to be hard on the person who has to play a version of us.

[Lynn]

Yes.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Not easy. How did you guys go about finding the Sanaa Lathan?

[Lynn]

Well, it started at the very beginning. I told myself and then told Aisha I would never cast a non athlete in this role. If the basketball's whack, it's gonna set female athletes back in years. That one's a pressure.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

I hadn't heard this forever, but yes, it's like I've heard it for the first time. It set us back.

[Lynn]

It set us way back. But one of my producers, Spike, was like, yeah, you gotta cast an athlete. So going through the process, though, I did say, let me just open it up. But part of the audition, you're going to read the lines and then if you get past that point, then you're going to get on the court. It's funny how many women lied. I can play and then I'd get them on the court. You're not going to fake. Can't fool you, can't fool me. And so that was also disheartening. I did open it up. That's when Sanaa came in.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

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[Lynn]

Sanaa's audition was great. Had such good chemistry with Omar. There was just no denying it. She had never touched a ball in her life.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

It's like that's a movie in itself. It is like the actress being perfect.

[Lynn]

Like, perfect in every way. The one thing Sinai had is she looked the part like she's five, eight. She looks like an athlete. I couldn't get her performance out of my head. She got a friend to help her with basketball.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

I'm her the director's commentary, okay?

[Lynn]

So she was working on her own to try and prove that she could.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Learn, which is also amazing. No guarantee at all.

[Lynn]

So, yeah, she set the tone for everybody that I choose now. And then it came down to Reg.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Reggie Rock.

[Lynn]

Reggie Rock. He just said to me, what is your movie? And I thought about it and I said, it's a love story set in the world of basketball. And then that made the decision, well, you gotta go with the actor. But even though I made that decision throughout the entire filming, I never. I never knew I made the right decision. Sana and I are great friends now, but during. But during, she felt that. And as a new director, I learned a lot about it's your job to make your actors feel safe enough to give you everything. And I was giving off a vibe of, I don't know, did I make a mistake? Like, her acting was dope and we kind of pushed all the basketball towards the back. But I had this dread of what is gonna happen when we start shooting the basketball. I made her cry. We were right before filming. I went to go watch her to see her progression, and I didn't. I was like, fuck.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Not impressed.

[Lynn]

Not impressed at all. And scared. I looked at her, I'm like, this basketball, you have to take it everywhere. You gotta dribble wherever you go. I need you against the driveway, like, doing passes, 100 a day. I need you to live and breathe this. I suddenly see her face start to crumple and just as she turned, started crying. And in that moment, I was like, I am the worst director in the world. I really had to soul search at that moment. And I called her and apologized and did my best to say, I believe in you. And I was wrong in that moment. And I just, you know, want what's best for the film and for you. And she accepted the apology, but there was. There was that. There was a little friction, but she was never unprofessional. She was great. I learned so much from her in working with her and the role of a director and the importance of trust between you two. She has to trust me. And it took me a while to get to that point. And then me in the editing room watching her performance every day and going, oh, my God, she was doing all this. And there was a bit of a cloud that was not allowing me to see her greatness in the moment. But that edit room, after the first couple days, I called her. You have given me an incredible film. And it's because of your performance. Absolutely. Learned a ton.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

That's amazing. It's beautiful. Speaking of the editing room, can we go in there right quick?

[Lynn]

Look at that transition.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

I know. Terry Lynn Shropshire.

[Lynn]

Terry.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

I know. We all say. We all say Terry. That is where you start painting, really, you know, and you're doing it with someone else. How was that first experience working with Terri and what is that relationship like, the director and their editor?

[Lynn]

So I do have to start the story at the beginning, which is me hiring her.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Okay. Yes.

[Lynn]

Because again, first time director. I have to get an editor that has done this a ton of times and done it at a high level. I cannot express. I think more than any other role on a film, a good editor can protect you or make your footage better. A bad editor can take great footage and kill your film. So I thought that. So I was looking at people with huge resumes. And it's just reality of our industry. They were all white men. But Terry had done Eve's Bayou and Spike had suggested her to meet. I love D's Bayou. That film made me realize, oh, we can do films on an Oscar level. That was like the first. So I met with Terri. It was a great meeting, though. It's funny because she says she couldn't tell if you liked her or not.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Exactly classic.

[Lynn]

I don't understand that. No.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Okay. Yeah. I was your assistant for two years.

[Lynn]

I know. And you're like, does she like me at the time?

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Still trying to steal juries. Just came back in.

[Lynn]

We're good.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

You're like, thanks. Good.

[Lynn]

After the meeting, she wrote me this five page letter. I don't even think. Did we have email back then. So it was an actual handwritten letter. Handwritten, cursive, you know, and it just expressed her love of the material, her connection to the material, but also had notes. And most people are afraid to give notes in a meeting.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Sure.

[Lynn]

And it was that letter. Damn. Somebody this passionate. I want to be in the trenches with this person. I want to be in the room with this person. Terry makes me better. It is such an incredible collaboration experienced by the fact that she's literally done every single thing I've done, except for one. She was not available on Disappearing Act.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Can we talk a little bit about music in your movies?

[Lynn]

Absolutely.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Because it's so important. And I think I understand how important it is now that I'm making movies and make a TV show. How to pay for it. Okay. Which can be very expensive.

[Lynn]

Yes.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

How to use it properly. And I think what you do is. It's another paintbrush. And so can you just talk about how you go about figuring out what music you want to use, but more importantly, how you use it?

[Lynn]

It started in film school. Started when I saw the Graduate.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Oh, wow.

[Lynn]

The use of music in the Graduate. Simon and Garfunkel. Oh, my gosh. It was an absolute part of the storytelling and the filmmaking. It always amplified the feelings or the emotions within scene, but it never took over. And that's that alchemy of the perfect song doesn't overwhelm a scene. It just amplifies or enhances it. And so that's the thing. You never know if a song is gonna work until you put it there. Yeah. So it starts in the writing, then on set, and then in the edit room. And it is putting songs to scenes. And again, what do I feel? It's a beautiful thing when it clicks. And Maxwell was a great example of that, because when we first started, there's no way I could afford that song.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Right.

[Lynn]

And we tried so many songs in that spot. Score.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

It's perfect.

[Lynn]

Nothing was evoking it. So I said, let's leave it in for Sundance. We played it at Sundance. That moment got such a huge reaction. And props to Mike DeLuca, who was running New Line at the time. Maxwell said we could use it, but we couldn't put it on the album. There was no reason for them to pay. I think it was. It was. I think it was $200,000 for it.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Wow.

[Lynn]

And he's like, we're paying it. It was amazing that he did that.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

A theme I see in your work is that obviously you've done original work, just, you know, just you sitting down, blank page. But you've also adapted a bunch of books and brought them to life on screen in a new way, obviously disappearing Acts being one of those secret life of bees, you know. And now another book you got coming as well. What is more difficult to have to sit down and just like pour your heart out or to sit down and interpret someone else's heart?

[Lynn]

Wow. I would say it's harder. The blank page is harder. It's funny because when I came out of film school, I kept saying, I can't wait for the day when scripts get sent to me and I don't have to write because writing, as you know, is very, very hard for me.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Writing is not fun.

[Lynn]

It's not fun. It's tears and low self esteem and I eat a lot. It's just all bad. It's just all bad until I come out the other side. I start rewriting and I start to say, oh, this is actually good. And I get to feel. I get to feel the movie. But it's so hard. Adaptations, you have the structure and you have the characters there. So I still do the same things I do, which is, you know, all my character work. What does a character want, need? What are the objectives? But there is a. It's a bit of a crutch. If I'm taking on an adaptation. That book needs to be my bible and not a blueprint. I just feel it's disrespectful to take someone's things and just, you know, I want the author to love this script more than anybody.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Yeah.

[Lynn]

And I've been very, very fortunate. I've done 1, 2, 3, 4 adaptations and I've had incredible relationships with the authors. That's. It's so meaningful to me.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Yeah. That's paramount.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Can you talk about having to, in your original work, make changes maybe didn't think you would make, but you kind of have to adapt in order for it to get across the finish line. How is that for you when you have to veer away from what you originally dreamed about?

[Lynn]

That's a really interesting thing because when you're doing a spec, as I said, It's 100% your vision. And so when you start getting notes, there is always a question. Does that feed into my vision? Does that go against my vision and can I trust my vision? As you know, you read the early drafts of beyond the Lights and, you know, the ending was completely different. That was an incredible learning experience for me. Inspired by someone in my family tried to kill themselves and trying to come to terms with that and wanting to put something in the world that said, choose life. So in writing the script, I was so clear that the ending was the right ending.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Right.

[Lynn]

And the original ending was that you go through this whole, hopefully beautiful love story. She achieves her goals, she's found her voice, she's got the courage to use her voice. And at the very end, cut back to the balcony where she tried to kill herself and her hand slips out of Cass's hand and she falls to her death.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

That, to me, I think, is so fascinating. And obviously I got a chance to be there for a little bit of that experience, and so those memories came flooding back. But I also. I went back further when we were still working on the Secret Life of Bees and you were ideating, and I also wanted to talk to you about that because you are a person that likes to do one thing at a time.

[Lynn]

That's it.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

You are a person that has a lot of ideas going through your head. You know, even though, yes, you were in the post process for Secret Life of Bees, you were also excited about and revved up about what would ultimately become beyond the Light. Was that new for you or was that kind of how you normally work, where you're like, okay, I'm coming on these last laps on this one. Are you kind of always gearing up for the next thing, or do you not tend to do that?

[Lynn]

So after loving basketball and then disappearing X, there is a. A break, A big break.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

On purpose or because the industry was on some weird shit.

[Lynn]

There were two different projects that I developed that could not. Couldn't get them made. It was. It was a striking thing to me to go back to back on two projects and then suddenly. Crickets. Yeah. And it's also amazing where you could be developing something. You look up and it's two years later, you know.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Yeah.

[Lynn]

I am not able to do more than one thing at a time because I have to be all in. If I'm splitting my focus, then I'm not giving my best to that thing I'm working on. In that moment, I wanted to get.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Into some themes that come up a lot in your work. What themes do you feel like you've explored enough that you don't feel like you need to keep tapping into? And what are some themes that you're going to explore, you think, in some of your upcoming work?

[Lynn]

You know, I feel like each film I've done, I've chosen because I needed to deal with something in my life.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Right.

[Lynn]

And it was speaking to that. I do think that there is a thematic connection to my work, certainly with black women and amplifying our voices, showing complex characters, showing our humanity. I hope in my work that I'm also showing the connection and the necessity of black men and black women as a collective. I don't know what the next is. Each film is allowing me to continue to heal myself from a lot of shit. That. That is the theme that I come back to the most. That's it. It is. I'm fascinated by how affected we are by our childhoods and things that have happened. And are we ever able to truly break free from that? Because it's something that I deal with in my own life. I'm looking at that in a number of different ways and a number of different genres, for sure.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

I also think something that was coming up for me and looking at the work is these bonds between black women. Is that something that was intentional, or was it something that was just sort of subconscious?

[Lynn]

I think it was probably started subconsciously and now has become a conscious thing of putting sisterhood up on screen.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

I think Secret Life of Bees, Loving Basketball Woman King.

[Lynn]

Like so often, Black women are not exalted. We don't get to see our humanity, the full breadth of our humanity, certainly up on screen and on tv. So to be able to do that and also show our connectivity, I think it's really important. The more we see it, the more we can, like, want to embody that, be inspired by that, aspired to be like that. Look what's happening in this moment with Kamala. I mean, it's beautiful, and it is. We are all going to come together and fight and protect this woman, this black woman. I think the more we see it in practice up on screen, the more we can emulate that.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

There was also another theme, too, that I was picking up on, in that your main characters sort of go through a fall. A big disappointment is the beginning of a new opportunity. And that's also something that we talked about and even your mentorship of me, like, you know, fall down seven times, get up eight. Because I think about a story you told me when you went to interview to be a writer's apprentice at A Different World.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

You didn't get it on the first go. You may not always get it on the first try, but it's about, what do you do? Do you go back again? So can you kind of speak to that a little bit about that beginning of your journey of being told no, then being told yes. On what you did with that?

[Lynn]

Yes, absolutely. Starts with being an athlete. I mean, that's the whole thing. You are going to lose at times, but you can either wallow and give up or you can look at yourself and say, I need to work harder. I got outworked.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

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[Lynn]

So my senior year I was one of the top sprinters in our area, stats and jumpers. So I was always the target. And I remember this. It was a big meet against our rival. And this girl during warmup started following me around the track, literally right behind me in my ear, I'm going to beat you. I got you. I'm gonna beat you. And at first it was like, ha, that's funny. And then it started getting annoying cause like literally would not leave me alone. We get to the line and she beat me. Like I couldn't believe it. She got in my head and I looked over and I saw her and her coach like celebrating like it was Christmas. And I realized that like that was their plan. Oh, wow. So I marked our next meet on the calendar.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Come on.

[Lynn]

And that was, that was the championships. And it was like that was my focus. Work and work and work. And have that loss in my gut, like motivated me and push me to work harder. We get to the championships when it truly mattered and I beat her ass. So it's like that's where it started as you know, applying to UCLA film school.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

I do know.

[Lynn]

And I got rejected. Got rejected to this day even saying it like, ugh, what? But it was one of the worst days of my life. How can I take. No, this is my dream. So let me tell them why they made a mistake. And I wrote a letter to the head of the film school and Ruth Schwartz. And two days later I got a call saying, I got your letter and you're in. To have. That is my first overcome. No, in this industry, you use that as fuel and as memory. So that different world went. And that was my fault. I bombed that interview so bad. I was so bad. I was introverted. You, my God, I was so monosyllabic.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

But shout out to Yvette Leigh Bowser, though.

[Lynn]

Yvette Lee Bowser got me in the room. Susan Felsh.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Shout out to Susan Felshill.

[Lynn]

Love her. Debbie Allen.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Shout out to Debbie Allen. She gonna be sitting in that chair soon.

[Lynn]

I fucked up. So how do I fix it? How do I get back? Cause this is my dream. So I think part of it is also, if you're passionate about what you do in this industry, if you're passionate, it gets you up off the floor. It fuels your fight.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

How do you think the business has changed for the better since you've been in it? And then how do you think it's changed in a way that hasn't been so great, in your opinion?

[Lynn]

I think it's changed for the better in that there is more diversity of content. As you know, the industry gets attracted to one thing. If there's success on one thing, then there's just repetitiveness in terms of what gets greenlit. Also us. Different genres still. The numbers are absolutely abysmal. Abysmal. Black female directors, 1.2% over the last 10 years. It's insane.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

And one hasn't been nominated for best Director at all.

[Lynn]

Never, ever. Never been nominated.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

And we're coming up on 195.

[Lynn]

Well, 96 years now.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Okay. We're coming up on 100.

[Lynn]

It's so important to me that we reach back and one hold that door open and pull folk through.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

You. Mara and Felicia showed me, you know, the way to come together and to reach back. And one of those people is Ramla Muhammad, who now has her own show.

[Lynn]

It's amazing.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Yeah. You know, Reasonable Doubt on Hulu.

[Lynn]

But there is another element of that, and it's something that you and I talk about. And it's 1,000%. The reason why our relationship went from.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

You know, boss and assistant.

[Lynn]

Yeah. To, you know, to colleague to friend to family is your work ethic. This industry is exponentially harder for us. There is no denying that. So you're going in knowing that and you have to go in knowing that you have to outwork everybody. And not everybody is built for that. The first time that you showed me your script, as I said, super scary for me, because, like, is this going to end our friendship if it sucks?

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

How you think I feel giving a woman a love of basketball? Her first go. A script. I also waited a year. I worked for you for a year.

[Lynn]

You did. But it was so clear, your talent. But it wasn't just that. I gave you notes. And literally, it was like a day or two later you came back with a new script. So few people do that. So few people shut themselves off. This is perfect the way it is. I just wanted you to tell me how great it was. You know, I was excited to work with you because of your work ethic, because you love what you do, and you love it so much and respect it so much that you're gonna put in the work. Not everybody's like that. They want the easy. And this industry, I promise you will never be easy for us.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

It won't. We can't wait for it to be that either.

[Lynn]

No.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

I remember, too, coming to your house for the interview. The job interview.

[Lynn]

So funny.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Oh, my gosh. Shout out to Mara Brock Akil, who made this happen. You gotta give her all the love always. Because I worked at Girlfriends. And what was so crazy is that I was not working directly for her. I was an assistant to her showrunners. Regina Hicks, Mark Brown, Dee La Duke. And so when you called her looking for an assistant, I got the call to come to the house. Such an honor to walk in there because I was a fan of yours as well as Reggie's. Being in this amazing home that I knew you guys built from your brains. And so it was just such a joy to be there. And I was trying to, like, act cool.

[Lynn]

The fact that I was shy in our meeting when the dynamic. You totally different. Yeah, I think I probably was. Like, an assistant is such a personal thing. You are embedded in my life.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Yeah.

[Lynn]

And I had two. My boys were.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

I got to meet your boys that day, too. Cassius and Toussaint. I realized, oh, you're a mom, you're a wife.

[Lynn]

But also, I thought you were shy, which is so funny because you really didn't talk that much.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

No.

[Lynn]

And again, it's like, how did that happen? How did you.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

I was just trying to.

[Lynn]

Like. You took a beta blocker or something.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

I wish I had a beta blocker at the time. Didn't even know what that was.

[Lynn]

You as my Assistant were representing me.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Oh, yeah.

[Lynn]

And people loved you. And I found out quickly that you weren't shy. And so you were my voice in places that I'm an introvert or shy, which was kind of an amazing thing. But I trusted you with that as well. And also your reach. Like, you already knew everybody. I remember when I had seen Awkward Black Girl, I was like, this is so funny. I would love to meet this woman. And you were like, oh, okay. You know, that was crazy.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Yeah. Well, I was excited that you said that, because this is going to mean the world to her. And I remember reaching out to her and telling her, and she was like, what? Oh, snap. Okay, last question. What is your definition of a really good movie?

[Lynn]

One that moves me and makes me feel, even after I've left the theater, that it transcends those two hours and takes me emotionally to places that I never thought I would go. An interesting One is 12 Years a Slave. I've only seen it that one time. Ooh. I sat in that theater after the credits for a good 20 minutes. Couldn't move. And then it stayed with me for weeks.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

I think about it sometimes.

[Lynn]

Like, I can enjoy a movie. I could say, oh, yeah, that was cool. But a truly great movie is the movie that gets into you, leaves you with something that's an amazing thing you've.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Done, that you've made a few of those. So thank you.

[Lynn]

Thank you, Lyn.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Thanks, G. Thank you for this. Thank you for this conversation. Thank you for being so open, so real. Now, this is just such a full circle moment, too, for me, like, to have sat in front of you to interview, to be your assistant, but to have, like, grown with you, to been mentored by you, to. To have the honor of watching you work and navigate. So many things I do now, you represent greatness. And so I think I'm always trying to chase that. And I think. But at the same time, I think you also taught me to follow my own voice, too. I think that that was such a big thing. I remember when you read Queen and Slim for the first time and the conversation we had after, I think it was really you kind of letting the kid's sister go. Okay. All right. That's how you want to do it? Go ahead. All right. That meant something to me, too, that you didn't want me to be just like you, but you really wanted me to be myself. And that's the greatest gift I think a mentor can give a mentee.

[Lynn]

So amazing. Well, and as you know, anytime you call, I'm coming. It's been a beautiful thing to see how you've moved through this industry. And, like, I think you are the industry. And from sitting on our couch across from each other to being a person who people aspire to be, who look up to, but also who is creating such a unique space in this industry and then opening up that space for others to come join, like, in such an intentional way. Like, that's incredibly dope and proud of you and continue to be proud of you.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Love you.

[Lynn]

Love you, too, homie.

[Gina Prince-Bythewood]

Appreciate.