Loading summary
Transcript62 lines
- [00:00]
Peter Frankopan
So when we left our story, football's old order had been overthrown. The newly independent nations of Africa, Asia and the Caribbean had helped elect Joham and transformed FIFA itself.
- [00:10]
Afua Hirsch
But if decolonization changed, who controlled football? The next question was, who controlled the story? Because dictators, generals, revolutionaries, all discover something rather important. Football can make people think, forget, or at the very least, it can distract them and make them look the other way.
- [00:32]
Peter Frankopan
And this is the age of military juntas and of Cold War rivalries. Argentina's generals use the World cup to polish their image, while thousands of political prisoners disappear. Soviet Union, United States are competing for influence around the world. Margaret Thatcher, General Galtieri find themselves fighting a war over the Falklands just four years before Diego Maradona scores the most famous goal in World cup history.
- [00:55]
Afua Hirsch
And this is also the age of television. Football stops being simply a tournament and becomes a truly global spectacle. Sponsors arrive, audiences explode, and players become global celebrities. One man from a poor neighborhood in Buenos Aires represents that story.
- [01:17]
Peter Frankopan
Best of all, that's Diego Maradona, a brilliant, chaotic and impossible man to ignore. To some, he was a cheat. To others, the majority, he was a genius. But to millions across Latin America and beyond, he represented something else completely. Pride, defiance, and the triumph of the underdog and the outsider.
- [01:37]
Afua Hirsch
So in this episode, we're traveling From Argentina in 1978 to Mexico in 1986, through a web of dictatorships, revolutions, the Cold War, and the rise of something that you listening to this will recognize very well today, and that is the modern football superstar.
- [01:59]
Peter Frankopan
Because if the post colonial world had taken possession of football, the age that follows is one that unites everybody together, from military rulers to TV executives. It's the power of the World cup and how to harness that.
- [02:13]
Afua Hirsch
No one understands that better than military dictators.
- [02:20]
Peter Frankopan
Hello and welcome to a new episode of Legacy. I'm Peter Frankenburn.
- [02:24]
Afua Hirsch
I'm AFWA Harsh.
- [02:25]
Peter Frankopan
And this is Legacy, the show that explores the lives, events and ideas that have shaped our world and asks whether they have the reputations that they truly deserve.
- [02:33]
Afua Hirsch
This is the World cup and the world of dictatorship.
- [02:42]
Peter Frankopan
Thanks for joining us on Legacy today. To support the show, please do sign up to us at Legacy Plus.
- [02:47]
Afua Hirsch
It really does make a difference for you to subscribe. Support the show and in return, you'll get early access, fewer ads, Q&As, bonus content. Like when we talk about the legacy of the escalator, we also talk about remote controls. How they have changed, how we live, what we eat, where we buy, either even what we look like, and we get special guests to come and help explain the world to us.
- [03:12]
Peter Frankopan
So sign up please at Legacy supportingcast fm and get to know and love me enough for even more than you already do. So by the time the World cup arrives In Argentina in June 1978, the Post Colonial world has transformed football. Joao Havalange has replaced Stanley Rous as FIFA president four years earlier, largely thanks to support from African, Asian and Caribbean states. And the tournament itself has expanded from 16 to 24 teams beginning in 1982. But even in 1978, afraid the center of football gravity is turning.
- [03:45]
Afua Hirsch
New states are joining FIFA. Television audiences are growing. The old European order no longer monopolizes or even meaningfully controls the game. So if 1974 is a revolution in the institutions of football, 1978 is a revolution in how powerful governments are mastering the art of exploiting football.
- [04:07]
Peter Frankopan
And Argentina's been awarded the World cup in 1966. So 12 years earlier, Long before anybody had imagined that the country would fall under military rule. But on the 24th of March 1976, so a couple of years before the World cup starts, General Jorge Rafael Videla seizes power in a coup, establishing the so called national reorganization process. And the junta launches what is called the Dirty War. When thousands of political opponents, trade unionists, students, suspected dissidents are arrested, tortured and murdered, many simply disappear. Human rights groups estimate that 30,000 people are killed or vanish. And the military regime nevertheless recognizes the value of football. So just like Mussolini had done we talked about him in 1934, Videla understands that the World cup gives a chance to present a different image to the
- [04:57]
Afua Hirsch
world afterward, and is willing to pour money into maxing out the advantage it offers. So vast sums are spent on preparations. And of course, being a dictatorship, there's none of the inconvenience of having to get legislators to approve of your spending plans. You can just let the cash flow where it's going to serve your needs. The Ente Antarctico Mundial 78, which is established in Argentina to organize the Torpedo tournament, consumes more than $700 million. That is such a huge sum now, but especially at that time, it makes this 1978 World cup one of the most expensive in history. And that is quite a high bar, Peter, given how much gets spent on World Cups today.
- [05:42]
Peter Frankopan
Well, because any big tournament like this always goes hands in hand with contracts with corruption and extravagance. And this is the time after you mentioned, you know, that military dictatorship had risen because Argentinians are facing economic hardship. So to blow the budget on a football tournament tells a very powerful story. So due to the fact that while welcoming all the nations of the earth to come and celebrate by playing football, this is at a time when the Buenos Aires Estadio Monumental, where the final will be played, is only a few hundred meters from the Naval Mechanics School, or the Escuela Superior de Mechanica del Armada esma, which is one of the junta's most notorious secret detention and torture centers. Officially, it's a naval training academy, but becomes the central hub of the Dirty war, where about 5,000 prisoners pass through its doors, with only about 200 of those surviving. It's a place where detainees are held blindfold, they're tortured, they're interrogated, and many victims ultimately murdered in the infamous death flights, where they're drugged and thrown into the aircraft, out the window, out the door, over the Atlantic, or over the Rio de la Plata. And prisoners later recall hearing the cheers of the football crowds while they're being interrogated. So the dictators understand that television crowds showing a festive Argentina to the outside world while atrocities are being committed is a way of providing legitimacy.
- [07:01]
Afua Hirsch
It's literal. It's not just the idea that, you know, in one place people are being tortured and murdered, in another place, people enjoying football. There they are so physically proximate that one can hear the other. It's so dark, and it's such a symbol of the way in which football can very literally be used to drown out the suffering of citizens and people who should be being protected, while supporters literally look the other way because they're so distracted by a game that is designed to bring them joy and to forget their troubles and to rally around a regime, no matter how persecutory it is. Foreign journalists notice that something feels off about this situation, even if they don't know necessarily the full extent of the abuses that are taking place, although many do. And many human rights organizations stage protests. Exiled Argentinians who know exactly what's going on in the country because their friends and relatives are suffering from this torture and arrest demand boycotts. And in the Netherlands, the Dutch parliament debates whether the national team should even attend. And this is, I think, again, going to sound very familiar to people who have their own questions about this and other recent World Cups and whether it's endorsing a regime that shouldn't be celebrated. But of course, people want football, and the national teams want to play, and the fans want to see their country represented. And somehow the tournament always seems to go ahead. And in the case of 78. It is successful in the sense that the teams play. It projects a sense of normality. People enjoy the game. There's not even at the FIFA level, a serious discussion about sanctions or any kind of accountability for Argentina.
- [08:50]
Peter Frankopan
And I thought you were mentioned a couple of times in the last few episodes about the possibility of decoupling politics from sport and the endorsement that one gives the other. I mean, would you think that there should be a case when World Cups are held in Russia, in the US In Qatar, you know, should they only be played in places with nice, happy, functional, democratic norms and standards? Should FIFA be stepping into sanction when they sort of say, well, we're not. It's not really anything to do with us. As it goes with the Olympic Games, too. How does it work? Because the peer group of countries that would ever be justified to be able to call themselves squeaky clean. It's quite a small list, isn't it?
- [09:27]
Afua Hirsch
I would say that no country is perfect. There's no country that doesn't have abuses, problems, violence, persecution of minoritized groups. And I think because of that, I would prefer transparency rather than the idea that only the squeaky clean can host a World Cup. And what you get with transparency is a greater space in which to call out double standards. Because if you look at Qatar, for example, which rightly attracted so much protest because of the conditions of immigrant laborers who built the stadia and in some cases paid their lives for terrible conditions building the Qatar World cup, if you look at the lack of freedom for LGBTQ people and fans who are playing in that tournament, I think there were many reasons to protest. But I can see an equal number of reasons to protest the US Hosting the World cup at a time when it is cracking down on rights of women, minoritized groups, immigrants, where you have a president who lies openly and is using executive orders and abuses of power to start wars, been supporting a genocide. You know, there are so many things wrong with this American World cup, and yet I don't hear anything like the same level of critique that I did.
- [10:41]
Peter Frankopan
How do you spot that above? Let's say the 1966 World cup in England, where there were no LGBTQ rights of any kind, where the stadiums were. Were all built by immigrant labor, primarily from the colonies, without sort of safe conditions, too. I mean, is it that that's the trap of whataboutism? And you should be judging the fact the world we start to. We become more enlightened, therefore we should impose those standards. I mean, like you said, nowhere it gets to be Perfect.
- [11:04]
Afua Hirsch
That's why I favor transparency. If you had transparency, then there would have been a space to critique the way England hosted in 1966. There would have been a space to acknowledge the abuses of Qatar, and there would be a space now to explore, express deep discomfort with the US hosting. And instead of this gaslighting where you say, well, there's no politics in football and it shuts down that commentary, I think that you have to acknowledge that football is political because people are affected by the decisions that are made by the country's hosting, by the way it's hosting, by the allocation of resources, by who's included, by how it gets weaponized. And what I find most harmful is the silencing and, and the, the dishonesty of saying that there is no politics, there are politics. Politics is, is, is completely embedded in these decisions. But by saying there are no politics, you shut down the discourse. And so I'm not necessarily claiming I have some kind of legitimacy to judge which country should and shouldn't be allowed to host. I'm just saying that I think all the people who have something valuable to contribute as to whether it is or isn't helpful should be allowed to speak. And FIFA tries to shut that down. And it affects different people differently. Because if you're, for example, a white privileged player in a country where you're the majority, not being political doesn't come at a cost to you. But if you're descended from immigrants who are getting rounded up by ice or experiencing police brutality, then being told you're not allowed to be political means you can't be yourself and you can't express your experience, experience or what's happening to your family members. So it's not equal. And it means that players are still not being treated equally in football. Some are having very, very extreme demands made of them to fit this artificial, non political narrative. And that is my problem.
- [12:49]
Peter Frankopan
So I think we should all listen to a friend of the podcast, Gary Lineker. We talked to him about exactly this, about how politics and race and football intersect and interreact to see how it's seen from the pitch side and from the pitch itself, rather than from our lofty, lofty positions. But I recognize all of that, my
- [13:06]
Afua Hirsch
armchair commentary, I mean, look, I think
- [13:08]
Peter Frankopan
I don't like, as always, I don't disagree with that. I think it's what does that safe space actually mean in the final analysis? And you know, people are free to criticize and so on, but it's at what point the authorities should, should step in and be decisive, you know, particularly, you know, it seems to be slightly more clear when you've got invading states or hostile states or ones that abuse human rights. The baps elf times. But take me back onto the pitch. Afro in 1978. Let's go back to Argentina. Tell me about Tunisia and its achievement in June 1978.
- [13:41]
Afua Hirsch
So by 1978 we've had various African nations participating in the World Cup. Not as many as there would have been if the rules had been fairer earlier on. But 1978 is the first time that an African nation wins a World cup match. That's Tunisia defeating Mexico 31 in Rosario on 2 June 1978. And that victory is not just felt by Tunisians, it is celebrated across the African continent. And it's been so hard for African teams to that point that just the fact that an African team can compete with these established football powers itself is a massive boost. And it actually strengthens the demand for increased representation. So just that performance helps persuade FIFA to allocate a second place to Africans at the expanded tournament in 1982 and elsewhere.
- [14:35]
Peter Frankopan
On top of that, you've got other new arrivals. You've got Iran making its World cup debut only months before the revolution that overthrows the Shah. Iran at one point we're going to get banned from even entering the United States to come and play their matches. In fact, they're being based in Mexico. Will be allowed in to play their games. See the resurgence still of Latin America where Mexico and Peru embody the confidence and the contradictions of the developing world with economic challenges too. Brazil reached the second group stage but don't make it through to the final just on goal difference. But it's obvious again that the. The rise of footballing power outside Europe is obvious. And Peru. I spent some time. I have a great affinity and love the culture peoples of Peru. They. They play under Marcos Calderon with huge style and imagination and they get through to the second round. And they've got the greatest Peruvian football levels. I mean there's like a saint in Peru, Teofila Cubias, who scores five goals and becomes one of the stars of the tournament. And again, it shows the growing confidence of Latin American football outside just the traditional giants of Brazil and Argentina and Uruguay. But the tournament is overshadowed by huge controversy. Afwa. And about Argentina's ability to win a match by an enormous number of goals against. Against a lot of the odds.
- [15:50]
Afua Hirsch
Argentina needs to beat Peru by four goals to reach the final.
- [15:54]
Peter Frankopan
Unlikely. Yeah.
- [15:55]
Afua Hirsch
Which seems like a very tall order. And yet somehow they managed to win by six goals, six nil on 21 June. And that leads some to allege match fixing has occurred. And there are other allegations, grain shipments, diplomatic agreements which bolster this idea that Argentina has essentially bribed Peru to secure that victory. These allegations go on for years and years. Later, Johan Cruff reveals that an attempted kidnapping of his family influenced his decision not to travel to Argentina to compete.
- [16:33]
Peter Frankopan
The Dutch make it to the final for the second time. And you know, poor Dutch, I'd love them to win the World cup the way they play too, you know, it was one of those things where the width of the post made all the difference. Mario Kebez gives Argentina the lead before do equalize late in the game, and in the dying seconds, Rob Raisenbrink hits the post. And if the ball had gone in, the Dutch would have become world champions. As it happens, extra time comes and Mario Kemper scores again before Daniel Bertoni scores, wins 3 1. And that produces jubilation across Argentina. Millions broader the streets of Buenos Aires. Videla, the military dictator, hands the trophy to the captain, and the glow of national triumph is there. And for many Argentinians, that those celebrations are genuine. Football is offering joy and hope and unity in a divided society. But for the junta, the victory serves the other purpose. It's part of the carefully constructed narrative of national renewal and international prestige.
- [17:30]
Afua Hirsch
And that's not lost on the Dutch. And some members of the team provide this subtle but powerful act of resistance, refusing to shake Videla's hand during the presentation ceremony. And that sounds like a minor thing. This is football where anything that's construed as political is regarded as very controversial and inappropriate. So it requires courage to, to take up these, these acts of resistance. And it helps audiences question whether football is being hijacked by a dictatorship to lend legitimacy to abhorrent acts. That's probably the biggest paradox of 1978, Peter. This is the first World cup that is starting to feel truly global, commanding the attention of hundreds of millions of people around the world. But at the same time, it is by far the most in this post world war era that is being hijacked by dictators, generals, nefarious politicians who realize they can use it for a theater of sinister power. The age of dictators has truly arrived on the football world stage.
- [18:39]
Peter Frankopan
So by the time the World cup comes to Spain in 1982, the world is entering a new and quite uncertain phase. That that great wave of decolonization has largely run its course by now, but the consequences are still being felt. So newly independent countries have transformed FIFA, but the Cold War has intensified once more after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and economic crises are sweeping much of Latin America and Africa too. So football is no longer merely a European and South American effect. It's become truly global. And the tournament itself reflects these new realities. So for the first time, the World cup expands from 16 teams to 24. And that's one of Joao Havalange's great victories.
- [19:18]
Afua Hirsch
Elected in 1974 with the support of the formerly colonized world, Africa, Asia and the Caribbean, he'd promised greater representation to countries outside those traditional centers of power. And he delivers on the promise. There are now two places for Africa instead of one. This is incremental progress because this is FIFA. Asia and Oceania also have increased opportunities. The old hierarchy and gatekeeping of the game is slowly, I think too slowly, but slowly being at least dismantled. And Spain is the next host, which is an interesting choice because only seven years earlier, it has emerged from the long years of Franco dictatorship. He'd ruled Spain since the end of the Civil War in 1939, and it's still navigating this transition to democracy after a failed military coup in February 1981.
- [20:13]
Peter Frankopan
So the world cup, like it always does, offers an opportunity as a stage to showcase a country and to represent a modern and outward looking image to the world. That's what all World cup hosts want to do. And in some respects, the tournament marks Spain's own return to Europe after those decades of authoritarian isolation. But it also reveals the gray confidence of the developing world. So Algeria makes its World cup debut and immediately produced one of the greatest shocks in football history. On 16 June 1982 in Gijon, the North Africans defeat reigning European champions West Germany 2 1. Rabba Magyar and Lahta Bellomi score the goals that completely stun Europe. And that victory sends people wild across not just Algiers and Algeria, but across Africa and the Arab world. And Algeria, as we mentioned before, had been fighting a brutal war of independence against France in the 1950s. In the nineteen early sixties, with perhaps a million people being killed as a result, and barely 20 years later, independent Algeria has humbled one of the great giants of world football. And many see this as further proof that football's old hierarchies are crumbling. And of course, not surprisingly, the country declares a national holiday. But this is a continental success. This traces back to the FLN team that we talked about in an earlier episode, Bart Afwa. Again, the Algeria story exposes us to the dark side of international competition.
- [21:37]
Afua Hirsch
When West Germany wins a one nil victory over Austria, West Germany and Austria and their fans know that that means Algeria is out. And the crowd reacts with this really nasty expression of hostility towards the Algerians,
- [21:56]
Peter Frankopan
shouting because they just passed the ball. They don't. They don't bother trying to attack each other's goal. They'd bother trying.
- [22:01]
Afua Hirsch
They collude in attempt to dominate Algeria. And it's of course, loaded with this baggage of race, colonialism, European superiority. SPECTATORS SHOUT Fuera. Fuera. Out. Out. And Algeria doesn't hold back. Its newspapers call this the shame of Gijon. The scandal is so severe that FIFA subsequently orders all final group matches to be played simultaneously to prevent this kind of strategic match fixing. And again, it seems as if the system is still rigged in favor of the established powers who can collude against newcomers.
- [22:47]
Peter Frankopan
That's right. And so that staged game between Austria and Germany sends both of them through at Algeria's expense. So they're not trying because they're. And that's not what sport is about, it's about giving it your best. But Africa's wider performance outside Algeria suggests a continent coming not of age on the international stage, but becoming a proper force to be reckoned with. So Cameroon, making their World cup debut, remain unbeaten during all three matches against Peru, Poland and the eventual champions Italy. And they're only eliminated on not just goal difference, on goals scored. And their confident performances show that African football has developed beyond novelty value. They deserve their place as a serious force. It's the same sort of thing in countries in Asia, too. Kuwait becomes the first Arab nation to win a World cup match when they defeat Czechoslovakia 1 0. And their campaign also produces a strange episode where Sheikh Fahad al Ahlad al Sabah, who's the brother of the emir, a president of the Kuwait Football Federation, descends from the stands to protest against a French gold being awarded and the referee cancels that goal. So, I mean, it's amazing what you could do if you're powerful and wealthy. But again, it's one of these glorious tournaments outside the match rigging allegations and these scandals where you see football of extraordinary beauty being played. Again, you look first to Brazil, the great teams of Zico and Socrates, Falcao, Cerezo and Eder. Again, the showreel is just extraordinary. And their artistry is accompanied by irony again because Brazil's still under that military rule. And the defining match is the first one I remember seeing as a boy. I was 11 years. The first proper World cup match I Remember seeing as a boy where Brazil need a draw to reach the semi finals. They play Italy and it's a 3:2 cliffhanger that you should watch Paolo Rossi scoring a hat trick. But the way the game is played, the tightness of the Brazilian shorts, the way that all the goals are scored in pure color, it's just a total, total joy. But Argentina, Afra, tell me about how Argentina's experience reveal how quickly politics can step into football in 1982.
- [24:47]
Afua Hirsch
As you know by now, I'm not a big fan of the narrative that there's no politics in football. And what better example than Argentina in 1982? Because this is a year where the military junta is collapsing. Only four years earlier, the country had celebrated World cup glory under General Videla. But this World Cup, Argentina invades the Falkland Islands. Britain responds with force. A war is fought, ending in June, days before the 1982 World cup begins. Argentina is defeated and humiliated in the war. Entering the World cup with this desire to restore this wounded pride and seething resentment. England is of course, feeling bullish at having won this war. And these are are the stakes that these teams enter into and of course, end up playing each other.
- [25:45]
Peter Frankopan
Peter so they might have been defending champions Argentina, but they get eliminated in the second round, where a young player called Diego Maradona doesn't live up to his expectations, gets sent off in the match against Brazil. Eventually, Italy emerges champions. And again, the match that's played, 1982, it's one of the great finals, 90,000 people at the Santiago Bernabeu in Madrid. And the goals that get scored are great. The way that Marco Tadelli celebrates his goal, that's how anybody who scores a goal in the World cup final should celebrate as he runs in a circle, you know, clutching his fists and screaming in delight. But the real significance of what happens in Spain is probably elsewhere. You've got African teams showing that they really belong amongst the elite. You've got Arab nations who've secured victories. You've got 24 countries more inclusive, the ability to compete together at a sharer global stage. When we come back after, we're going to look at the 1986 World cup finals, or as we like to call it, our great friend of the podcast, the Gary Lineker World cup.
- [26:48]
Afua Hirsch
By 1986. Something really important has happened, Peter, because I have been born and become a sentient human.
- [26:54]
Peter Frankopan
There we go.
- [26:54]
Afua Hirsch
Although I have to say, I'm not really following the World cup yet. I'm five years old. But the next one I will Be properly on the scene. So don't worry, everyone. It gets really interesting, then. The tournament has originally been awarded to Colombia in 1974, but by 1982, Colombia realizes it cannot meet FIFA's increasingly extravagant demands. And the president, Belisario Betancour, famously declares the World cup should serve man, not man, the World Cup. I have to say I agree. But anyway, Colombia withdraws, Mexico steps in. Remember, it's not been that long since Mexico hosted a World cup, but stepping in in place of Colombia, it becomes the first country to host twice. And this is in spite of having experienced a really devastating earthquake, the famous earthquake of 1985 that took as many as 10,000 lives in Mexico. So the decision to host a second World cup reinforces Mexico's status as a nation that can bridge the global north and the global South South. It confirms the place of Latin America in world football. And it's happening at a time of real upheaval on the continent, because Latin America is suffering what's often called its lost decade. Peter.
- [28:11]
Peter Frankopan
Yeah, it's defaults. It's over government debts. It's the fact that it's too expensive to borrow in the developing world. But still, in the case of some of the competitors that get to the finals, it's a moment of opportunity. So, Argentina, this comes just four years after the Falklands War that you've already mentioned. After 10 weeks of fighting in the Falklands, Argentina had surrendered, and that had hastened the collapse of military rule. But the tensions between the two countries are important, and it's a fate of destiny that, of course, as we're going to tell you, England end up meeting Argentina in the quarterfinals. But Diego Maradona becomes the defining figure of this tournament. He's born in Villa Florita, one of the poorest districts on the outskirts of Buenos Aires. And he's a different kind of football hero. Pele had represented optimism and joy, and Maradona represented defiance. He was short, he was competitive, he was emotional. He was deeply conscious of inequality. He spoke about that a lot. And millions of people in Latin America saw something in him of themselves, this kind of fighter who wants to. A street fighter who wants to go out and change the world. And that quarterfinal between England and Argentina becomes the symbol of how sport and politics intertwine. So they meet in Mexico City's Azteca Stadium in front of almost 120,000 spectators, and he scores twice. Within four minutes, one becomes known as the Hand of God. You'll all know about that. And the second, he starts with the Ball in his own half beats more than five English beats basically half the England team, and is later voted FIFA's goal of the century. And so it shows the two sides of Maradona as well. So his appeal extends far beyond Argentina to all the rest of the world. See Maradona and the Argentinian team as challenging established powers and thinking that, you know, if Maradona's gonna use a bit of creativity and blame the hand of God, that then maybe that's a writing of the wrongs and the sins of empire, that this is what the Global south should aspire to.
- [30:08]
Afua Hirsch
I would really urge you to listen to our episode with Gary Lineker about this, because not only did he ballet in the Hand of God match, he was on the England side and experienced that close up, but he also later made a documentary with Maradona, so really got to know him. And it's just so interesting to hear about the man behind that image of this kind of plucky, aggressive chip on his shoulder. Genius, which, you know, all of which applies to Maradona. And it's just interesting, the dynamic between them. Gary, of course, famously the person who plays by the rules, never ever got so much as a yellow card, let alone a red card.
- [30:42]
Peter Frankopan
What a goody goody he is. Love him, though.
- [30:45]
Afua Hirsch
He is such a good person. He's a kind of straight down the middle person, or as Maradona is, cut a few corners. That's not a phrase you would use to describe Maradona, but they kind of develop this unlikely friendship. And it's just such an interesting story. There are other things about this World cup, even though the hand of God, I think, seems to have completely taken over in the way we remember it. But it's the first time Morocco enters and is the first African nation to ever progress beyond the group stage, topping a group containing England, Portugal and Poland before narrowly losing one nil to West Germany in the second round. But again, just the participation, just having got through the group stage, is something that is absolutely celebrated across both Africa and the Arab world.
- [31:34]
Peter Frankopan
And then you've got these Latin American countries that overperform again. You've got the Soviet Union that's playing at a time a year after Mikhail Gorbachev has come into power and is introducing reforms and how the Soviet Union would present itself in the future, even though six years later, it would cease to exist. But the semifinals reflect this changing balance of football powers. Argentina defeat Belgium 20 in the semis, with Maradona scoring both goals. And then West Germany overcome France in another chapter of their long rivalry. And again, it's the final that you want in a World cup final where Argentina beat West Germany 3, 2, 1 of the great finals, where Argentina go 20 ahead before the Germans fight back with goals from Karlheitz Rummelinga and Rudy Voller. And then, with just seven minutes remaining, Maradona plays a sublime pass that releases Jorge Burchaga, who scores the winning goal. So it's a huge contrast from Argentina's win in 1978, when the country is run by and embracing a military dictatorship in 1986. Triumph belongs to a country that's tried to rebuild its democratic institutions and to come to terms with its past.
- [32:41]
Afua Hirsch
I said earlier that the hand of God has kind of monopolized the memory of that tournament, but in some ways it's justified because Maradona is the undisputed hero of the 1986 World Cup. And he emerges not just the most famous footballer, but maybe the most famous person on the planet. Maybe like rival with Michael Jackson at this stage, like PE before him, he has completely transcended football and he captures the mood of the mid-1980s. The post colonial world is finding its voice. The age of dictators is receding, but the inequality, the unfairness, the memories and resentment of empires are still lingering. In a way, Maradona is the personification of all of those complex experiences and emotions. And. And it's so important that football is an arena where that can play itself out, where nations can settle old scores, but they're also imagining new futures. And no one embodies that more those hopes, contradictions, frustrations, dreams and opportunities than Diego Maradona.
- [33:44]
Peter Frankopan
I'm just going to say afwa that, you know, I watched that match. I don't think I cried, but I must have been close. If our own beloved Gary Lineker got on the end of that John Barnes cross, which he should. And I'd have bet nine times out of 10 that he would have done. England could have beaten the Argentinians, and it could have been Gary Lineker ending up as the symbol that we'd be talking about the World cup in a very different way if England had won in 1986. But before we go, just a final question. Do you think that we need an African country to win the World Cup? Will that fundamentally change how we think about the World cup, how we think about sport, how we think about Africa?
- [34:21]
Afua Hirsch
I think so. I mean, we on yes and no, we don't.
- [34:24]
Peter Frankopan
That's a longer pause than I was expecting.
- [34:26]
Afua Hirsch
I was gonna say no, we don't need an African country to win the World cup because we already know that Africans are incredible at football. You know, we watch the Africa cup of Nations. What would the Premier League be without African footballers? Like, I don't think Africa needs to prove its footballing prowess and stature.
- [34:42]
Peter Frankopan
I agree.
- [34:43]
Afua Hirsch
However, I think at a time where global inequalities have many massively failed to meet the expectations of that first independence generation. You know, when my mother was born just a few years before the Gold coast became Ghana, she always tells me the story of how her father told her that by 2000 Ghana would be on parity with Britain. You know, Ghanaians then imagined that within 50 years of coming out of colonialism, their currency would have the same value as the pound. Their clout and reputation on the world stage would be the same as Britain. That's how much self belief they had. And if you look at that as a dream and a vision that seemed realistic to them, look how far those formerly colonized African countries are from fulfilling that potential. So yes, I think on the only level playing field there is, much as FIFA is so flawed. I think for an African nation to win the World cup on that stage, it would symbolically mean a lot. But I still don't think Africans need to prove anything because they are footballing legends already.
- [35:48]
Peter Frankopan
Well said. Now listen, we were going to do some series later on the summer about about travel and tourism. I had to work quite hard to convince her for to do the World cup and then when I told her we're going to do like loads of episodes, I'm not going to pretend Afraid's Heart sang with joy, but I really hope you're enjoying these episodes. I was trying to think about how the football World cup connects with decolonization, with global politics and so on. Please do keep listening. Please tell your friends. We keep quite a close eye on our metrics and numbers and we're trying to find topics that we think you're going to be interested in. The best thing you could do if you enjoy listening to us is to try and encourage others to leave. Perhaps other podcasts they listen to more regularly and come and join us on the Legacy Family. But thank you for listening to us. We're going to keep on going. The next time we talk about the World cup we're going to talk about the World cup at the end of history. So I hope this is interesting to be competing with some of the stuff you're watching on the TV too. But there's so much to think about. And it's such a joy Alfred talking to you. I've learned a lot about the black stars, about trying to think about football in different terms, and that's what makes this such fun to do.
- [36:47]
Afua Hirsch
I'm loving this series, Peter. You were right. It's super fun. It's much more me than I realized it would be. So even if you're not a massive football fan, I hope you are finding something for you in the series because we're certainly loving it. And please subscribe if you enjoy our shows. If you want to be part of our community, subscribe to Legacy and get all the benefits. And you can watch all our episodes on YouTube and listen to them all on Spotify too.
- [37:15]
Peter Frankopan
So just go to Legacy supportingcast fm and don't forget, you can watch all of our episodes on Spotify, YouTube and for everything else also on our substacks and updates on Instagram and TikTok. Or just check out the show notes or search Legacy Podcast. Thanks for listening again. I'm Peter Frankopan.
- [37:31]
Afua Hirsch
I'm Afua Haysh and we'll see you on the next episode of Legacy.