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If politics feels angrier, dumber, and more tribal than ever, you’re not imagining it. Smart people are talking past each other. Good intentions collide. Every issue becomes a moral emergency. And somehow, even ideas that once united people—like trade, cooperation, and innovation—now trigger outrage.

This episode gets to the why.

My guest is Arnold Kling—one of the most original thinkers on how economics and politics actually work in the real world. Arnold doesn’t just analyze policy outcomes; he explains why we struggle to communicate, why persuasion fails, and why cooperation breaks down even when everyone claims to want prosperity.

He’s the author of The Three Languages of Politics and Specialization and Trade, two books that help explain why debates feel impossible—and why decentralized cooperation still beats control every time.

This conversation ranges from political psychology to trade, from tribalism to AI, and from economic ignorance to real reasons for optimism. If you want to understand why our politics feels broken—and how prosperity still emerges despite it—this one’s for you.