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Let's Get Dressed
Joseph Altuzarra on 20 Years in Fashion, “NYFW Is Dead,” and His Year of Yes
00:53:56
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- [00:02]
A
Hi, guys. Welcome back to another episode of let's Get Dressed. It's your host, Liv Perez. I am back home after a really fun New York Fashion Week, and I'm so thrilled to be bringing you guys this episode where I got to sit down with Joseph Altazara just a few days after his latest New York Fashion Week show. We chat all about fashion Week and what it actually takes to put on a Runway show as a brand, from inspiration to who actually shows up at the show, and also why people might be saying New York Fashion Week is dead. We also talk about what 20 years in the fashion business actually looks like, like, what it means to stay independent, what he thinks about growth at this stage, and why this year has quietly become his year of yes. And, of course, we had to chat about some other fun things, like heated rivalry, weathering heights, and whether he thinks fashion is a little bit psychic when it comes to pop culture. This conversation was so much fun, and there were so many things that I got to chat with him that I have wanted to know about fashion for so long, and I loved how honest and open he was. If you guys haven't seen seen his Runway show, I highly recommend seeing it. Before you listen to this, go to Vogue Runway and check out the show. It was so beautiful. We talk about so many references and inspirations, so it might be helpful. We also share a lot of visual things in this episode, so if you want to watch it, it's available right now on YouTube as well. Let's go get dressed with Joseph Altazara. Joseph Altazara, welcome to let's get Dressed.
- [01:25]
B
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
- [01:27]
A
Oh, my goodness. Thank you for being here. I. And during what I imagine is an absolutely insane week for you.
- [01:34]
B
It is pretty insane. I've, like, made it more insane by deciding that this is the year of yes. And I, like, told my team this year. I was like, I'm going to everything. I'm gonna go out after fittings. So, like, the other night, I was out. I went to three events. I was out till 11, which is really very unlike me, but I'm, like, feeling so energized. Like, Year of the Fire. Horse, here we come.
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A
I feel that way too.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Except then I woke up Saturday and was like. I felt like I had got gotten hit by a bus a little bit.
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B
Yeah, I woke up. I woke up, like, two days ago, and I was like, I don't know. The year of yes might be, like, the month of yes.
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A
But I'm curious what led to the Year of yes.
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B
Oh, my God. It's actually a really. It's a really silly thing, but you've watched she did rivalry.
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A
Oh, we're gonna get into it. Of course. Yes, I did.
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B
I was like. For some reason, I definitely entered and was part of the collective psychosis around that show.
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A
As was I.
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B
But the really weird thing that I came away with was this real sense of, like, ambition, which was bizarre. Like, I was very, you know, had a lot of admiration for the actors themselves and how they're really, like, hustling. And I was like, wow. I haven't felt that level of hustle since I really started my brand. Like, since, like, I was in my mid. Mid to late 20s. And I feel like I. Especially since having kids, like, a lot of my energy is going outward toward my kids. And I think I'm also in, like, a place, and this is a lot of, like, therapy speaks. I've been doing a lot of it, but I'm like, you know, I think my kids are growing up, and I'm sort of recentering some of the attention back on me, which is, like, a nice feeling. But weirdly, the catalyst was that show, which is bizarre.
- [03:32]
A
When you say the ambition, you mean, like, the two actors, like, out in the world afterwards, like, hitting everything?
- [03:37]
B
Kingston Williams and Connor Shore.
- [03:39]
A
Yes. Like, they were at the Olympics. They were at every show.
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B
I'm like, wow. They're doing everything and they're hungry for it, and they're. You could just see the drive.
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A
Yes.
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B
And something about that. It wasn't even really the show. Something about that was so inspiring to me, bizarrely. I love that. Yeah.
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A
And I love that it translated into a year of yes for you. I think that's really wonderful.
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B
Yeah. It's been a really positive. Like, it's had a lot of benefits, bizarrely.
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A
Okay, maybe I'll take on this year of Yes. I love it.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Thank you so much for having me at your show.
- [04:13]
B
Of course. I was so happy you could be there.
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A
It was beyond stunning. How do you usually feel after a show like that?
- [04:20]
B
You know what? I was thinking about this actually yesterday, because I definitely have, like, postpartum. Like, I feel a little bit sad when I'm done. I think there's so much energy that goes into the show. I obviously feel so much gratitude for my. For my team, for people who come and support and who believe in me and in the brand, but there's also a kind of, like, emptiness a little bit after the show, and it can feel a little like a comedown and it's like a little. It's almost like a melancholy feeling, which is weird. I feel happy because obviously you went well and good reception and. But yeah, it's a little bit of like, I have to get back into the groove of it.
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A
Do you celebrate, like, what gets you through that hump? Because I feel like a lot of people maybe experience that in life on some level, maybe it's a big event in their life. But for you, you've done surely over 30 shows. How have you figured out a way to. To celebrate it but also overcome that hurdle and get ready for the next one?
- [05:34]
B
I mean, I really slipped back into like my regular life pretty quickly. Like, I'm. I like, you know, went home and like, read the kids like bedtime books and did the whole routine. I did go. We did have an after party after the show and I went to the after party and celebrated. But I also feel, and this is, you know, I think therapy has helped with. Definitely helped with this. Like, you. When you're like in your 20s and you start, there's so much, like, you feel so much energy around what you're doing and around your brand, and people are constantly. You're sort of like, especially when you're sort of like the new hot thing. And it's really easy to get lost in that feeling. And even though you know in the back of your mind that that is not going to last forever, it's hard to imagine when it. That it will end. And I got really good advice when I was younger about sort of like really building a life outside of fashion to help with that. And so I think that's kind of what I go back to in these moments is really like my kids, my family, like my, my friends in fashion, but also outside of fashion. And I think it's a really, it's a very important piece for me. And it also honestly is what kind of keeps me inspired.
- [07:11]
A
I want to get into that a little bit because this collection had some very fierce references and inspiration and it was so reflected in the clothes. But before I knew what the references were. When you and I first spoke a few weeks ago, the first thing you said to me about the collection was that you were approaching personal style in a way that you never had before. And I'm curious if in designing this collection, having personal style, obviously forward, front facing for this moment, if you think that the person you're designing for today dresses differently than maybe they did when you were designing collections and runways a few seasons ago.
- [07:48]
B
Yeah, I mean, there's definitely been. And I think this is something that's happened definitely over the course of my career. Well, first, there's been, like, a real flip in, you know, kind of power dynamic between the customer and brands. Like, I think brands used to really put out, like, a style edict on the Runway, and then customers would, like, sort of follow it. And now I think, like, customers are telling you what they're dressing like and what they want to wear, and brands are sort of, like, taking it in and sort of subsuming it into their message for that season. And so I think, like, I've become more and more interested in how women are dressing today, how they're shopping. Part of it also is that I've. I've really grown into, like, the age bracket that I'm designing for. Like, when I was 25 and I was designing for women who could afford my clothes, you know, they were. They had kids and they had careers, and they had, like, school drop off to worry about, which were not things I was familiar with. Now I, like, go to school drop off, and I am with my clients. Like, I know them, I know what their life is. Like, I go to cocktail parties with them, I socialize with them. So there's a much more intimate. I have a much more intimate relationship with the sort of cohort of people who wear the clothes. But I also think, like, women do dress very differently today. Like, there is. And I think there is so much less. You know, I want to say, like, there's been like, an almost, like, fracturing of personal style in kind of the best way possible. Like, there was, you know, if I think back to, like, you know, 15 years ago, I feel like there was sort of a uniform. Like, there was a proportion that. That everyone in, like, New York City was wearing, or, you know, there was real look. I feel like you could be wearing this one day and then the next day be wearing a totally different thing and still be you. And. But there's such a dynamic idea of style that I find really exciting. But that was something that I think really informed how we were thinking about this collection is how do we, like, how can we reflect different ideas of the same person or different people?
- [10:27]
A
Like, the things that are coming to mind for me from the collection are, I loved that look with the sweater and the silk scarf over tied with a brooch. Like, that feels deeply personal. There are so many elements to that that could include storytelling. Maybe it's a silk scarf that someone passed down or, you know, broached. In the same vein, I felt that very clearly.
- [10:48]
B
Yeah. I'm so happy you. You noticed that, because there were a lot of. A lot of those kind of styling moments where we're really, like, looking at, like, street, you know, people on the street. Not necessarily street style, but really, like, you know, interesting, idiosyncratic ways that people wear clothes, whether it's like those. Those dresses at the end, like, just like a woman walking into a party, but she's cold and she's wearing her jacket. Like, there was something still really interesting about that. So those kinds of little touches that make it feel more like it's a. Like a person.
- [11:26]
A
So you had very specific references for this show, and a quote that you and I spoke about a few weeks ago was this idea that if you love fashion and you want to be in fashion, you have to learn everything but fashion. Study art, politics, all these things. And that's actually a Sally Singer quote. But for you, I think that. That you are, like, to me, like, the prime example of that. I learned so much coming to your show on Saturday, and not just about fashion. I have this book here that you leave on the seats for everybody, and I learned about a new artist and a new director and new art that hung on the walls of your space. And I think that that, for me, is such an enriching experience when you're able to bring more to the table. So talk to me a little bit about the references, and we'll get into the book as well.
- [12:11]
B
Yeah, I mean, it was an. This was an interesting collection because it was. It started pretty intuitively, like, we had a. I had a pretty clear idea of what I wanted to achieve, which was, I think, overall, more of a sense of drama and how drama kind of infuses every day. And I didn't really know how I wanted to get there. And it was really an amalgamation of things that. And you sort of start putting things down on paper, putting it up on a board, and start realizing, oh, these are interesting things. Through lines, you almost, like, create this interesting, like, map. Like, aesthetic map. We were looking at a lot of Velasquez paintings, you know, general, like, kind of Baroque and Renaissance Spanish painting. We were looking at Almodovar. There was something about sort of, like, the heightened, like, emotional quality of Almodovar movies and the sort of drama around that. That was very exciting and interesting to me. Bunuel, especially the discrete charm of the Bourgeoisie, which is like, a bizarre movie, but which, again, is. Has this sort of surrealist quality, but also this sense of, like, drama and also. But There was also this sense of. And this was really like the sort of looking at people on the street. There was a sense that I sort of wanted to speak back to reality more than maybe in past collections. Like, I wanted it to feel editorial, but I did want people at the show to feel like they could recognize themselves in what they were seeing. So I think that there was an interesting balance between these, like, more intellectual ideas and how do we tackle those and how do we bring those into the collection? And then a very, like, visceral, emotional quality, which is how do we reflect what is, you know, happening and how people are dressing.
- [14:25]
A
Lately, I've been really intentional about what I'm bringing into my wardrobe because I want quality pieces that are made to last and feel worth investing in season after season, which is, of course, why I always think of Banana Republic. We all know Banana Republic for their iconic workwear looks from the 90s early 2000s, and their February collection is inspired by just that, except it's updated for today. To me, a modern work wardrobe is the new kind of uniform. It's pieces that I can wear from 9am and still feel really good and like myself later, if I'm grabbing drinks with friends. Everything feels really put together, but easy for days on the go. Their archive inspired suede jackets are such a classic Banana Republic moment. Their cashmere comes in a fresh palette for spring, and the pants have this incredible tailored look while still being genuinely comfortable. It's that balance of structure and ease that I'm looking for every day. And they have become the foundational pieces of my wardrobe and the things that I build my wardrobe around. Shop new arrivals. Right now at Banana Republic, I think something that I've had a lot of people in my life ask recently that aren't in fashion is how do these big moments that happen almost get crystallized in a way that makes it seem like everything's on purpose? And I felt that with Wuthering Heights with you, specifically last season, your show, you actually wrote about how your show was inspired by Wuthering Heights, and little did you know, here we are. Now. That collection is releasing in stores at the same time as the Wuthering Heights premiere. And we all know that you're not having those conversations in the background to. Yeah, to line those things up. But I think it's an interesting thing about fashion and culture to examine. It's like, does fashion almost have the intel first about what's happening culturally in the world, and then it kind of gets funneled through.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Through design, through clothes. And by the way, we're talking about a movie, but we could be talking about politics, economics. I mean, how many times last year did you see, like, this is a recession indicator when it came to fashion?
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B
Totally.
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A
So I wonder what you think. Like, do you think that fashion has the inside scoop on. On culture a lot of the times. Maybe because you're drawing from inspiration of the world.
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B
I do to a certain extent. Like, I think fashion, I think designers, and, you know, designers in general have to project forward. And there is a. I think of my job, like, a lot of times as almost like a sociologist. Like, you kind of have to look at a group of people, their behavior, over a certain amount of time, and predict what their behavior will be in six months or a year's time. Meaning, like, how will they want to look? What will they gravitate towards? What will be part of the culture during that time? And some of that is very personal. It's not an. You know, it's not like we're making graphs. You know, it's like a intuitive process. But there is, like, a thought process. There is a. Like, okay, this is where culture is right now. How do we think people are gonna feel in six months? Like, how do we. How are they gonna wanna look? What are they gonna be reacting to? A lot of industries probably have to do that. Like, I imagine the movie industry has to do that to a certain extent. And I've been wrong a lot also. And I think you do see in fashion right now, there is a little bit of, like, this feeling that designers don't know what to do. Like, that there is, like, a. The sort of ideas and problems and issues in the world are so big. And we are also speaking to a segment of the population that is, you know, so small that it's hard to kind of figure out how to tackle those issues, speak to them, but also make great clothes.
- [18:33]
A
What does that actually look like for you when you're starting a collection like this? Because, you know, we were talking a little bit earlier before we hit record, and you had mentioned you just started journaling, and I kind of want to know what the process is like, because I think the standout look from this collection was the dress we were talking about with the drop waist, big kind of flamenco in style style skirt with an amazing kind of funnel neck jacket over it. That, to me, felt really impactful. And obviously you have the Spanish inspiration there. But I also felt that it really blended this. Like, I don't believe in fashion today. There is day wear and evening Wear?
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B
Yeah. Yeah.
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A
I think the modern woman knows how to mix the skirt with the button down for evening and then throw a leather jacket over it for day. So what does that process look like for you in the beginning? For someone like me who's looking at just the creative genius of all of this, I love to know the origins.
- [19:22]
B
Well, it's interesting because there is a very, like, there's a very instinctual, intuitive, like pure design led part of kind of building a collection. And then there is a real kind of business side. So we kind of talk about both on the. On the sort of. And I would say, generally as a company, we're very business led. Like, we take a lot of risks that are maybe sometimes don't make sense from a business perspective. And we hope that they work out like. Like those giant flamenco skirts.
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A
I don't know. I'm buying that.
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B
But, you know, I think. I mean, basically the process is. I have a first meeting, which is actually happening in a week for next. The next February show. I have a first meeting and I say, like, you know, this is kind of what I'm feeling. So I think at that season that, the season we just showed, I think I was talking about this feeling of drama, this feeling of, you know, something that felt a little bit moodier, a little darker. It can be as simple as that. Some seasons it's very specific. Like a couple seasons ago, it was paper. Like, I was like, I'm very interested in paper. I'm very into books. But books as an object, how can we. What are ideas that we can glean from this inspiration?
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A
And for people quickly who are watching on YouTube, a book is left on every seat at the show. This is what we got this time. How to Be both by Ali Smith and Inside, you have paperclipped, different references. I'm gonna keep this forever. I live for this. I absolutely love this. I think it's just such a. It speaks so highly to your process, and I find that really cool.
- [21:09]
B
Thank you. Yeah, so we talk about generally that. Then the team also talks about what they're feeling, what they're interested in. And then we all split up and we start gathering images. That is actually the best part of the design process because you're literally just kind. It feels like you're scavenging and, you know, like, you find weird things. Like, I found this amazing Diane Keaton style book in like, the Bridgehampton Library that have probably not been touched since, like the 1980s.
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A
That feels surprising.
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B
Yeah, it was interesting. A book she wrote about her own style.
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A
Looking this up immediately and buying it.
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B
It was fabulous. Okay, I'll have to send you some quotes for it because she. I mean, they're hilarious. But you kind of go out, you scavenge, you find interesting things. We don't do a lot of vintage. I know some designers really like it. I actually find it, like, almost. It's like, almost hinders my creativity, bizarrely, because I want to stick to the vintage so closely that it, like, doesn't allow me to, I guess, change or create or do something new that's so interesting.
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A
You mean, like, in terms of just referencing something from the past from you or anybody else?
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B
Exactly. Like, I mean, a lot of people, a lot of designers, and I've worked with designers like this who really like buying vintage, and then they'll sort of style the vintage. And that is, like, sort of the beginning of the collection, which makes so much sense to me, as. I mean, I understand it. It's just when I try to do it, I. I think I just have a very different process, a very drawing, heavy process.
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A
Right.
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B
So after we gather the inspiration, we all get together, and for about a week, we go through everything. It's like piles and piles and piles of paper that we sort out into stories. And it could be anything. It could be, like, seam types of seams. We're interested in constructions. We're interested in, like, prints, colors, anything and everything. We put boards together and then we start drawing. Like, we all kind of split up and start developing. So the, you know, knitwear team does their thing. You know, the wovens team, we do our thing. Embroidery, print. Like, we all. Product development, we all start working, and then slowly, really sketch review by sketch review, we start kind of whittling down the ideas. Now, parallel to this is a whole sort of business process that is really, you know, merchandise. The foundation of it is really merchandising, which is like, partially, you know, looking to the past, like, what is selling, what is not selling, and kind of building a merchandising plan based on that. And it's something I can play with and sort of negotiate. And there's also strategy. It's like, what areas of the business are we trying to push? What areas of the business are high margin versus not? And there's a kind of those two poles of, I guess, creation sort of speak to each other and start having a dialogue. And in a lot of companies, including ones I've worked with, it's been. Those two kind of areas have been very at odds with each other. And it can feel like a very kind of hostile relationship. Adult Tuzara. I do actually think it is a very cooperative sort of working relationship between merchandising and design because you were really kind of all working toward the same thing. And honestly, the merchandising process can really help, like, weed out ideas and force you as design to make a choice, which sometimes is hard. Like, do you really need, like, seven pants that have, like, cargo pockets or whatever? Just pick the one that you want and you have to, like, commit to it. And that's part of. It is like, by virtue or it is like being a small company. You have to be, you know, you have to be decisive because we're not making, like, thousands of samples and throwing them out. But also, like, that's just always the way that I've worked. Like, I think I'd rather sort of commit to an idea earlier and really execute that idea as opposed to, like, throwing stuff at the wall and just seeing kind of what sticks.
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A
This whole story is a testament to the fact that you can be a creative and be type A. Yes, I'm extremely type A. And it sounds like you're type A too.
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B
Very type A. Yeah, sometimes that can
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A
be really hard for my creativity.
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B
Oh, totally.
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A
And this is. I can just be so fixated on things and, like, overthink and spiral and like, really just fixate so hard that sometimes I have to. I'm working on practices now to step away and just, like, let the creativity come back in.
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B
Yeah. And actually, it's a really. It's a hard balance, like you say, because it's. It's kind of like you also. And I'm sure with you, like, the more data you get on, like, you know, maybe your viewership, what people want from you, what's doing well, like, that can all. It's all great data, but can. It can all almost feel like stifling and like, maybe you start having ideas, but all of that starts kind of seeping into the creative process and feeling like, oh, it makes you almost doubt yourself. And I think that. That it's similar with. With this process, the design process. You have to almost, like, kind of put up guardrails. You have to know when to sort of, like, take the information and put it aside and have, like, freedom to try new things and do something that maybe is not gonna do well. And honestly, a lot of the breakthroughs of the last few years for us have been creative leaps. Like, things that, wow, we didn't really think this would work or we didn't. This Was really made, like, as a showpiece that we didn't think was gonna ever sell.
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A
Do you have an example?
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B
Oh, my God. So many. I. I think, like, our customer was really coming to us for, like, much more bodycon things. And I was creatively kind of like moving away from that and feeling like much looser silhouettes.
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A
What's interesting, because that's kind of the style of the time. I feel like, yeah, the bandage dress just doesn't exist anymore.
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B
Totally. Yeah. And I think it was a, you know, commercially, you know, the team was sort of like, let's, you know, you can make like one for the show, but, like, it's not really what is. I think what people want. And it was really interesting because it brought in a whole new customer, like a whole new customer base. And the customer who liked the bodycon stuff was also like, oh, I like this too. And I think from that experimentation with, we were able to build like a whole new kind of language and vernacular around the brand, which was additive. So that was, I think, a really, like, I think a really positive thing that came out of trying things. I mean, I've also tried things that like, have really not, you know, done well. Like, I mean, anytime we do like a really exaggerated shoulder.
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A
Interesting.
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B
Which, like, really works for other people.
- [29:01]
A
Totally. Like, Kate was all just this, like,
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B
it does not work total work for us.
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A
It does square shoulder. Your customer, I think, really loves something that feels romantic. I think for me, like, if I want to be. I think of you and I think of. I want to be this metropolitan girl, boss going around town, but I also still want to feel really feminine and beautiful.
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B
Yeah.
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A
That to me is where.
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B
And I think she's coming. You're right. I think she's coming to us for that for sure.
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A
Even you talking, saying bodycon. The dress that comes to mind to me is the dress from last season. The white kind of tank with a high slit. And you styled it with a knee high boot. Like, that's a bodycon dress, but done your way and completely reframes the idea of something that feels sexy but still really romantic and feminine. It doesn't have to be one thing.
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B
Totally.
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A
I actually think what's funny about all this is what we're talking about right now is quite literally the title of this book.
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B
How do we truth? Exactly. And this book is such an interesting book because, I mean, a lot of it is about is a dialogue between sort of art history and like, sort of real life and the life that we live today. Some of it is about grief. But there is, I would say, generally in my collections and this one in particular, there's a real. There's always like, a real tension and dichotomy between two holes of thinking. And I think that I feel that in my own life, a lot. Like, I feel this sort of, like, pulled apart by left brain, right brain work, and family. You know, there's a lot of, like, I feel this tension within me that I think I also bring to the creative process.
- [30:44]
A
So all of this is a culmination of almost two decades of designing for your own brand since 2008. And when you and I first started prepping this episode, I mentioned something to you that really stood out to me that I would love to dive into a little bit, because I feel that it speaks so much to everything we have talked about so far. And that was actually your commencement speech at Swarthmore, where you're an alumni, and you said this. The key message of your speech was this idea of feeling like you've arrived or that people have projected that idea onto you. After almost 20 years of designing, I'm sure that that brings its own tension to the table, of feeling, that validation, but also the push pull of 20 years of really hard work. I'd love to hear from you why you were so inspired to bring that conversation to the table for the next generation of people going off into the world.
- [31:41]
B
Yeah, I mean, I'm so happy that spoke to you, because it was really. I think I would have loved to have heard that when I was 21 and graduating, because I think as a. As a culture, I think we really focus on achievement, and we really focus on, like, the end goal and not enough on the. Well, a. Not enough on sort of the journey. I don't think people talk enough about the fact that, like, you are never really done. Like, there's never this point that you feel you've arrived, that you feel like you know yourself, that you feel like you have a handle on things. You know, when I speak to young designers and they talk to me about their problems or their doubts, I'm. You know, I'm always like, I have the same. Like, everything you say, I feel the same. I just have been doing it for 20 years, but actually more, if you count, like, Givenchy and Pronza, et cetera. But so I think that that was something that was really important to me when I was thinking about this commencement speech. I think it's also. It was important to me to think about it, because I'm a little bit at a sort of complicated time of my life professionally, where I feel like it's like I'm not. I'm not like the hot new thing anymore, but I'm also not like a mega brand. I'm like sort of this. We're an independent business. We are successful, but we're not having, like, shows with, like, icebergs, you know, and so it's like, you know, sort of like, find, like grounding yourself. I, I really need to, like, sort of ground myself in the, the moment and also feel like there is, like being 42 and having this business is not sort of the end all, be all. There's also like, I, I will continue to evolve and I will continue to grow and to learn and to, you know, sort of. That this doesn't have to be sort of like the, the. The end goal where I am now, because I think when I was 21, I probably imagined at 42, 20 years after starting my business that that would be it, that I would have figured it out, that I would have sort of arrived. But it doesn't feel that way.
- [34:26]
A
I think this goes back to a little bit what we were discussing before about being an independent designer and being at the helm of that. It's a lot of pressure. And something that you and I first spoke about was you were having a conversation, I think it was with your dad, who loves K Pop, right?
- [34:40]
B
Yeah.
- [34:41]
A
And he had said, oh, I love this star. Why don't you just get this star at your show? And there's such a disconnect in the capacities of that and like, the real world situations of what it means to be an independent designer. And I wonder what that feels like for you. Like, has there been a season where that's been particularly challenging, especially in the landscape of American fashion right now, and how maybe you responded to your dad in that moment.
- [35:07]
B
Yeah, you know. No, it was a funny anecdote because it was so sort of indicative of, I think the, the widening gap between like, what being an independent designer and what like, being like a global conglomerate fashion brand is like, you know, most of these stars that you see wearing clothes or going to shows are getting paid now, and they're getting paid a lot, as they should, you know, as they should be. They're monetizing their fame. And I thought it was just like, very funny that he was like, why is, why doesn't, like, Jenny just go to your show? Oh, that's. I would love for Jenny to come to the show.
- [35:48]
A
She's a little tied up right now,
- [35:49]
B
but one day she's a little tied up with Chanel. But I think, I mean, you ask. I think every season, honestly, like, brings its own challenges. I don't want to be pessimistic and say, like, every season gets harder.
- [36:04]
A
No, I, you know, I. I don't think it's pessimism. I think it's honesty. I think people want to know what it is really like to have an independent brand in New York City, especially during a time right now where. How often in the past, like, four or five seasons have I heard New York Fashion Week is dead? And I'm like, are you seeing what's going down the runways? But also, American designers are outperforming European luxury designers.
- [36:26]
B
Yeah. And I think that's actually really. I think that's a really important point. Like, American brands are doing well, and when you look at how European fashion is doing, I mean, obviously American designers are speaking to consumers and are doing something right. I mean, I do think there is, like, and. And since showing in New York, I mean, New York, like, 20 years ago, I feel like there is, like, a general feeling among, like, the fashion community. And I don't. I don't say this, like, as a sort of, like, guiltily pointing fingers at people. You know, I. I think that there is a. There is, like, it's like, you know, fashionable to be down on New York. You know, there is like a. It's accepted. It's like, okay. I think context is really important also, like, watching a show at the Grand Palais, if you kind of transposed some of that to, like a, you know, fourth floor industrial building in New York, like, it would look different. So I think, like, the context and the dream that you get in some of these other cities does inform how people see the clothes. It's an important part of it. I also think that from what I've seen of New York this week, like, I was actually incredibly impressed. Like, I felt like New York Fashion Week really delivered, like, some pretty strong collections and brands that I didn't necessarily know that well, but that I find really exciting and that are speaking just to a real consumer.
- [38:18]
A
Is there one that stands out in particular?
- [38:20]
B
I really loved Kallmeyer. I thought it was so beautiful. I don't know her, but I thought it was really beautifully executed. Felt very emotional. I love Colleen Allen. I think what she's doing is so interesting and unique. I mean, honestly, there were a lot of collections. I mean, I love Mark. Always so fun, and I think he's so important to the fashion landscape. And so I feel like There is a lot that's happening in New York. Yeah, I do think the context is important, but as an independent brand in New York, I think that there is. It. It does. It is hard. Well, first, like a lot of international buyers and editors have stopped coming and part of that is like part of a bigger reckoning in, you know, established traditional media and budgets being cut and there not being as many advertisers in New York and people just don't come. Like there are no budgets for them to come.
- [39:37]
A
It's just easier for them to see it on social media.
- [39:39]
B
Totally got it. And most American brands will go to Paris, like to have a showroom, right. And they'll do Reese's there. And then it's become an incredible. It's really become a pay for play industry. So any, I mean really, anyone you're seeing at shows today is being paid
- [40:02]
A
to go to a show from a celebrity perspective.
- [40:04]
B
From a celebrity perspective. From an influencer perspective as well, mostly. So it really is. And a lot of them have exclusives, so they're like exclusively paid by one brand to only attend that one show. And listen, this is like a very smart marketing move on the part of brands. So I don't bemoan it, but do I think like a hundred thousand dollars is better spent on, you know, developing next collection than like on one person coming to the brand at this point, at this juncture in our business? Yes, I do think that. But that's not to say I don't think it's a really important, valid part of the business. I just think it's a very different reality as an independent brand. And like, you know, we talk about it, I talk about it with our marketing team a lot, like trying to find those moments, you know, to get in front of customers, to get in front of the press. Like it just takes us so much, I wouldn't say so much more work, but it's like a lot more, you know, it's a lot more crafty. Like it's a lot. You have to think out of the box a lot more. You have to sort of, again, as we talked about in the beginning, like you for us, like, lean into the small, lean into the intimate, actually make it feel sort of exclusive. That was actually an interesting byproduct of going much more intimate with the show, which was initially something we did for the 15th anniversary, was sort of like paring it down. I think it was a little bit of a callback to our first ever collection and that sense of intimacy. But what was Interesting about that was by going much smaller and by actually having to make the sort of guest list much more exclusive, it actually, like, made people want to come to the show more than when we had like a 500 person show. Like, there was this like, oh, I need to get into that room feeling, which was like a, you know, which was kind of an interesting. Like, there was an interesting. It was an interesting benefit of doing something that felt more intimate, was actually like building up desire and anticipation for that.
- [42:39]
A
I think your last two collections have been the most widely shared. I feel like my feed was flooded both times you showed. And I wonder, for you, this idea of arriving is less about scale and more about alignment. Like finding your alignment with even the fact that you're saying you're now designing for the people you're around. It's like, how do you find that recipe of getting to who you actually are? And people want to be a part of that.
- [43:06]
B
I mean, I think, like, you're absolutely right. I think that is what it is. And I have to say, it's taken me, like, a long time to get to that point of understanding, but I think it is about. It's about alignment. I think in some ways, like, I mean, it's really about, like, profitability. It's about, like, you know, it's very easy in fashion, and I'm saying it from a business perspective, but it's. It's easy in fashion to really get sidetracked by what other people are doing and wanting to do the same thing. And really, like, you just have to stay focused on what you're doing, on your business, on the health of, you know, your financials. And that is always like the. And on staying creative. I mean, those are really, like, the most important things.
- [43:55]
A
Yeah, I think the show has definitely almost turned a new leaf in a sense. That intimacy, the fact that it's in your office, you have control over that space. It seems like everybody is very at home and relaxed. But also you have these traditions that have made the brand feel very familial to people in this industry, whether it's the books, your daughters being a part of it. I think, I mean, that is the thing that I see. So, yeah.
- [44:22]
B
And the number of people who, like, tell me, like, please don't leave this show space. We love it here. It's such like a, you know, it's such like an intimate, you know, feeling. We feel like we're like at home in the living room. Like, Anna Wintour, like, came backstage was like, please never leave this space. This is, like, the best space. Because I also think, like, the flip side is, like, people go to these big shows, and it's like. Feels like a circus. It's like a lot of press, a lot of, like, you know, photographers. It's, you know, overwhelming. And then you're able to walk into our space, and it does feel like, wow. It's calm, it's familial. My mom's, like, running around.
- [45:05]
A
I met your mom, who was wearing an incredible pair of shoes, by the way.
- [45:08]
B
I know. You were telling me.
- [45:09]
A
Now I'm obsessed with. I love them. I live for a pointed toe flat. And your mom looked so good in them. And by the way, she was like, I've been trying to get them to sell these. They're gonna be amazing.
- [45:18]
B
I know. She really is, like, the number. Our number one, like, seller, big time. People will, like, see her in something and be like, I need that again.
- [45:26]
A
Back to this business feeling like, you know, you did things back in the day. Like, I'll never forget your Target collaboration.
- [45:33]
B
Yeah.
- [45:33]
A
A brand with a target collaboration. 2014-2017 was the coolest thing on planet Earth, people. I waited up for those drops. I was like, a first person to buy. It was such a hype thing in the world of fashion to now your mom kind of being the best saleswoman, like, again in this world. Right now, we're having a conversation about what matters during New York Fashion Week and what really moves the needle. I think it's these brands that make you feel like you're part of their family.
- [46:04]
B
I think you're absolutely right. And I think that New York leaning into that more is actually making it feel more different and actually more. More meaningful.
- [46:17]
A
Is there anything that you feel like you've had to stop doing? Obviously the bigger shows, but, like, as you've come into this arrival alignment moment, like, is there something you've had to shed?
- [46:26]
B
Ooh, that's a good question. I mean, you know, there's. There are things that we, you know, like, we used to do a lot of, like, VIP dressing. Like, red carpet dressing, which honestly never felt like, to use your word, was the right alignment for us. Like, it's just like, especially the direction VIP dressing was going was, like, very structured, a lot of boning, like, which I totally understand. I think, like, women wanted to feel, like, held and. And it's just not the kinds of clothes that we make. And I think we had to have a moment. We were like, I don't know that this is worth. It's not really the message of the brand, it's a lot of time and effort, and it's not worth. It's just not worth it for us. Like, we do it when it. When it feels natural. We've had some great moments, but I think it never really moved the needle as much for us.
- [47:35]
A
I have to ask you what. How you sift through that emotion, because I can imagine anybody listening right now in any industry, in any role, having to say no to things that feel popular or make you feel cool as a brand is very challenging.
- [47:49]
B
It is.
- [47:50]
A
How do you turn a blind eye to those things for the sake of what you know is right for your brand?
- [47:56]
B
It's really hard. And. And I. I mean, my team knows I like. It's a. It's a real, like, everyday struggle, and I vacillate because I'll see people having other brands and peers having, like, great moments on the red carpet. And I definitely toggle because I. I feel like, oh, I want that. Like, I want to be able to do that. I can be a very emotional person. I can also be like a very, like, brain person. And I. Going back to journaling, I think it's really important for me to kind of sift through my emotions on paper. And once I do that, I usually am able to kind of recenter myself and. And remember what is important, you know, But I definitely have that kind of, like, what do they say comparison is? The killer of joy.
- [48:48]
A
The thief of joy.
- [48:49]
B
The thief of joy it is. I have that 100%, and I have to. I definitely have to manage my exposure to social media because it is. It can be pretty toxic for me. I feel like we're similar in the way that, like, we can obsess over something. I can feel, like, very emotional about things and sort of obsess about it, and social media kind of aggravates it, so I have to be really careful about that. You know, it's like I also feel real ambivalence about kind of, like, fame or about, like, a part of me is very, dare I say, like, seduced by it and sort of hungry for it. And then another part of me is really kind of repulsed by it. And that's also like, a really hard thing to, I think, sort through during. In the time we live in, because it feels like it's a big part of the job and it's a big part of how people value you, is both, like, maybe your own level of, I guess, how public of a person you are and also, like, the people you surround yourself. With. But as a person, I think my values are much more. Are much more attracted to kind of like privacy. So it's like can. Can be sort of hard to, I don't know, to sort of work that out. But yeah, this is like something that I'm like, actively working through with my therapist.
- [50:37]
A
I like, I'm so like, moved and happy and thrilled to hear that you're, like, sharing this experience. I think going back to this like, arrival commentary of like, oh, once you're 42, you've got it all figured out and it's like, no, sometimes that's actually just like where the journey begins.
- [50:53]
B
And honestly, like, talking to people like you and I think voicing things in a way that feels vulnerable and a little cringe is actually really, like, it really does help me. It feels like it helps me, you know, be sort of more at peace with the, you know, maybe the doubts and the thoughts that I have. And knowing that you feel that way too, I think is a, you know, it sort of reassures me in a way.
- [51:24]
A
Yeah, I think we should all embrace cringe a little bit more. But totally, yeah, like, I don't really care if someone finds me cringe. I'm saying that today, but tonight I'm gonna sit and smile in bed and say people think I'm cringe.
- [51:36]
B
Yeah, no, same. I'm the same.
- [51:38]
A
Like, I say it now, but we oscillate. We go back and forth. Thank you for sharing all of that. I really appreciate hearing that from someone like you.
- [51:45]
B
Thank you.
- [51:46]
A
To close out, one thing that you also said in your commencement speech was that a lot of what you've experienced in this life and career was based on luck. And that your first internship at Marc Jacobs was actually just because the person hiring had alphabetized the list of applicants. And with your last name being a. You were first. They called and you were. You happened to be available. I think life is half luck.
- [52:08]
B
Yeah, half.
- [52:09]
A
A little bit of something else. But I'd love to hear what your piece of advice would be for somebody who wants to enter the fashion industry.
- [52:15]
B
Well, I always have. My number one is always to. To be doing it for the right reason. Because I think fashion from the outside can just feel like this incredibly glamorous, incredibly fun industry. And God knows we have a lot of interns who come in with that mindset and very quickly realize it's a full on grind. And that is regardless of whether you work for an independent business, you know, a big conglomerate, it's like hard work. And I think you really have to really love it. And you really have to love the work because it's. It can be hard. My second thing is I actually think, and this is like for any job, I think, like networking, like sort of creating your own luck. But I think it really, really works.
- [53:09]
A
I do too.
- [53:10]
B
And that is something I have always done. I'm like sort of recommitting to it this year, but putting yourself out there, honestly, being a little cringe, but like sending emails to people you really admire, you know, going to events, shaking hands, like, I really think it makes a difference. And I, you know, even when people are persistent with me and I get like a little annoyed, I'm still like, you know what? I appreciate that this person is trying and is persistent. And I will usually take the meeting. And maybe that's just like the personality I have, but I think it can really make a big, really big difference. And then what's like another good piece of advice?
- [54:02]
A
I mean, this episode happened. Cause I slid into your dm, so always send me a dm, guys.
- [54:06]
B
Exactly, exactly. And honestly, so many of the things that I do, like projects, collaborations, you know, interesting, like endorsement stuff. Like, it's a lot of times it's like just like me sending an email to someone that I think is cool or interesting. Cause who doesn't like to receive that kind of email? You know what I mean?
- [54:30]
A
I'm a big believer in shooting your shot.
- [54:31]
B
Totally.
- [54:32]
A
Yeah.
- [54:33]
B
I love it.
- [54:33]
A
Thank you so much for being here.
- [54:35]
B
Thank you. This was so fun.
- [54:36]
A
It was so great. And I really, again, I appreciate the time during a crazy week.
- [54:40]
B
I was really looking forward to this.