The Truth About Carolyn Bessette-Kennedy’s Style (It’s Not the Clothes)

Summary

Let's Get Dressed: "The Truth About Carolyn Bessette-Kennedy’s Style (It’s Not the Clothes)"

Host: Liv Perez
Guest: Larissa Mills (fashion writer/content creator)
Date: March 23, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of "Let's Get Dressed" unpacks the enduring style legacy of Carolyn Bessette-Kennedy (CBK), challenging the current frenzy of copying her wardrobe and highlighting the power of aura, discernment, and wardrobe repetition over mindlessly chasing trends. Liv is joined by fashion insider Larissa Mills, whose viral Marie Claire story argued that most people misunderstand CBK's actual approach to style. Together, they discuss what made CBK iconic, how her minimal '90s uniform reflected a broader zeitgeist, and offer practical advice for translating CBK’s principles—not just her garments—into a modern, authentic personal style.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene: CBK’s Continuing Influence

• [00:02]–[01:39] Liv sets up the episode by explaining the current online obsession with "dressing like CBK," fueled by the FX/Hulu series "Love Story."
• Liv wants to move past the "just copy her clothes" narrative and have a more nuanced conversation about personal style with Larissa, who lived in NYC during CBK’s era and has distinct, steadfast style herself.

What Was "CBK Style" Really in the '90s?

• [03:18] Larissa:
  • The supposed uniqueness of CBK’s look is somewhat overblown: “Everybody dressed like that...it was the uniform.”
  • Minimalism, Banana Republic, Calvin Klein—her style reflected the mood of the time.
  • CBK’s true distinction was “how she carried herself,” not just her clothes.
  • “John had the amazing personal style…he just to me had, like, it was the accessory accessorizing that he did that always…I always sort of noticed.” [07:11]
• [05:06] Notable Moment:
  • CBK’s wedding dress is pinpointed as the only truly boundary-pushing style choice for the time—“so pared back…so minimalist…it looked very new, different, interesting, fresh.”

The Power of Aura, Not Just Wardrobe

• [08:05]
  • Liv and Larissa agree that what elevated CBK was less what she wore and more how she wore it.
  • Larissa: “My big thing is she wore the clothes…It wasn’t a costume or a uniform…It was very intentional.” [09:39]

Then vs. Now: Can Iconic Style Survive in the Age of Infinite Content?

• [09:53]–[10:23] Liv:
  • In the ‘90s, style icons stood out due to scarcity and access.
  • Today, Instagram gives us infinite “incredible women with unbelievable style”—would CBK’s impact be the same now?
  • The modern impulse to label micro-trends (“Tomato Girl,” “Cottagecore”) is a way to cope with “too many choices, so much noise.” [15:06]

Micro-Trends, Fast Fashion & Personal Discernment

• [15:06] Larissa:
  • People crave simplicity in the flood of choices—the reason CBK’s look is being replicated is “you can replicate this…It kind of takes away the stress and anxiety.”
  • The proliferation of micro-aesthetics is our coping mechanism for fashion overload.

Engaging With Trends Without Losing Yourself

• [18:16] Larissa:
  • She consciously doesn’t study trends—“I don’t like being online so much that I don’t want to be influenced. I want some separation…so I can feel like I’m coming to something on my own.”
• [19:58] CBK as a Lesson in Discernment:
  • CBK “had way more choices than most of us…But she clearly made a definitive choice to keep things very pulled back and understated.”

The Emotional Dimension of Dressing

• [21:51] Larissa:
  • Personal style should suit your mood, your environment, and even serve as “armor” if you’re feeling vulnerable. “There’s also sort of like a protection that clothes have for me…I tend to have…like a little bit of space or protection. It’s weird, but yeah, some clothes are more vulnerable than others.”

Dressing for Perception vs. Self

• [24:07]–[25:05]
  • Both hosts acknowledge the human tendency to dress for how a setting will perceive us, but aspire to style that is “for my eyes only.”
  • Larissa: “It is easier [as you get older]…it’s really just age does it.” [24:48]

Style Confidence, Rule-Breaking, and Vulnerability

• [27:13] Notable Moment:
  • Liv describes wearing divisive new Chanel square-toe shoes: “I just was like, this is not for you, buddy. This is not for you.”
  • Larissa: “That’s always the one I’m going to look at…someone confident enough to break out of that, do it in her own way.” [26:32]

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The "CBK Anti-Toolkit": Style Principles Over Copying

1. Know Your Silhouette

• [28:14]
  • CBK knew and repeated flattering silhouettes for her body. “She wore things like she was tall, it made her look longer…That one little tailoring detail…can change an entire outfit.” [30:19]
  • Quote: “I stopped dressing for my body a while ago because I just like that look…so I just did it.” – Larissa [31:03]

2. Treat Hair Like an Accessory

• [28:55]
  • Her signature long, loose, blonde hair added “light reflection,” movement, and an effortless, carefree vibe.

3. Proportion & Tailoring (But Not Obsessively)

• [32:46]
  • Sometimes “the rules” don’t matter—wear what you love, even if it doesn’t “flatter” every conventional proportion.

4. Practical Dressmaking (And Breaking the Rules)

• [34:04]
  • It's both expensive and unrealistic to have everything tailored. Both Larissa and Liv admit to DIY raw hems and “cutting pants” rather than fussing for perfection.

5. Ruthless Wardrobe Editing & Repetition

• [35:14]
  • The confidence to edit and repeat: “She had a point of view…she stuck with it…she very much gravitated toward the neutrals.”
  • Liv: “What makes someone have the most recognizable personal style is repetition.” [37:48]

6. Consistency and Signature Touches

• [38:48] Larissa:
  • “Think about some designers, like Karl Lagerfeld, who wore the exact same thing over and over again. And it became like, oh, that’s iconic. Why? Because he made it so.”

7. Take Inspiration, Don’t Cosplay

• “If you’re this life of the party and then you’re trying to cosplay CBK…It’s not a fit, you know?” [20:07]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “What makes someone have the most recognizable personal style is repetition.” [37:48] – Liv Perez
• “She wore the clothes…it wasn’t a costume…it was very intentional.” [09:39] – Larissa Mills
• “Everybody dressed like that. It was the uniform.” [03:18] – Larissa
• “If you see a woman at a party, and there’s a bunch of people who checked all the boxes, I’m always more intrigued by the confident one who broke out of that.” [26:32] – Larissa
• “I'm a jealous brunette, but I can think of five blondes whose style is better because you are blonde—like, that and the vibes.” [28:42] – Liv
• “I stopped dressing for my body a while ago…because I just like that look.” [31:03] – Larissa
• “The repetition is one of the key things—she’s really saying, she’s sure of her choices…there’s no reason to mix it up for the sake of mixing it up.” [37:27] – Larissa
• “I cut pants. I used to literally take scissors to things and walk out of the house with a raw hem because they didn’t fit.” [34:21] – Liv
• “You have earned that place to dress for you. Just you.” [27:13] – Larissa

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Let’s Get You Dressed (Listener Q&A): Mother of the Groom Outfit Dilemma

[40:54]–[45:52]

• Debbie, a Massachusetts mom, asks for advice on what to wear to her son’s wedding.
• Larissa’s Answer: Don't default to typical “mother of the bride/groom” dresses—try sources like Moda Operandi for elegant, unique options. Avoid “game-show host” evening gown clichés and pastel “Easter egg” looks if they don’t feel authentic.
• Liv’s Tip: Elevate your existing style (“don’t become somebody else for this occasion”).
• Reference: CBK’s legendary wedding look—minimal, true-to-her, no “prom hair,” signature messy bun.
• Resource: Little White Looks (Instagram account for wedding and special occasion style inspiration).

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Actionable Style Advice Inspired by CBK

• Discernment is Everything: Edit down and commit to what resonates with you instead of trend-hopping.
• Repeat Your Best: Repetition of silhouettes/colors/chosen items build a recognizable signature.
• Dress for Your Current Mood/Setting: Use your wardrobe strategically—clothes can protect, embolden, or comfort.
• Break the Rules Without Guilt: Love the look? Permission granted.
• Fashion Should Serve You, Not the Other Way Around: Aim to dress for your eyes first. Confidence is always your best accessory.

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The Bottom Line

CBK’s power wasn’t just in her wardrobe—it was in the intentionality, minimalism, and self-knowledge with which she got dressed. Rather than simply copying pieces, adapt her “anti-toolkit” of discernment, adaptability, and self-assurance to cultivate a personal style that stands apart—in any era.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, everyone, it's Liv Perez. Welcome back to another episode of let's get Dressed. Today we are diving in to all things Carolyn Bessette Kennedy. I feel like it was time we had this conversation on the podcast, but we are mixing things up a little bit because I invited my friend and fellow content creator Larissa Mills onto the podcast after she wrote a very compelling story for Marie Claire about how everyone is getting CBK's style wrong. She lived in New York during the CBK era and is also a lover of fashion, so I think we could learn a thing or two to from Larissa on the matter. I loved having this conversation with her. We talked about a few of the CBK tools, what she used to further define her style, what really even is personal style today, and if she really had good style or just a really strong aura. I hope you guys love this episode. If you have time, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and make sure you follow Larissa on Instagram as well. Let's go get dressed with Larissa Mills. So today we are talking all things Carolyn Bissette Kennedy, cbk. And I feel like it was time that we had this conversation on the podcast as a fashion podcast with so many things on social media and just in the world going on. If you guys haven't watched the show yet, the show called Love Story, which is on FX and Hulu right now, it tells the love story of Carolyn Set Kennedy and John F. Kennedy Jr. Which has been a fun watch. Have you been watching?

[B]

Oh, yeah. I didn't want to. Honestly, I was like, no, I'm not watching it. It's not. But then I had to. Everyone's like, it's an enjoyable watch. Regardless. It's an enjoyable.

[A]

I'm trying to, like, disconnect the two strains of thoughts in my brain. Like, I'm watching it as, like, a guilty pleasure, but I'm not taking it as real life. And, like, I'm disconnecting a little bit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yes, it's been a fun watch, but what I think I've been most interested in analyzing is this kind of, like, frenzy online about, you know, how to look like cbk. Like, get these boots and this skirt and these sunglasses and you'll look like her. So I really wanted to put some content out there that serves as a little bit of an antidote to that and kind of break that down as well for, you know, this show that talks about personal style and, like, what that means every week. And it's funny as I was Ruminating on this and thinking about it and look like. I just also want to make it clear, like, neither of us are coming from a place of judgment. I think a lot of people are meeting CBK for the first time and are really excited about her personal style and, like, what that means. But you wrote an amazing story for Marie Claire about what people are getting wrong about copying her personal style, and I thought it was great. So I was really excited to invite you on the show today and talk about it a little bit for a few reasons. One, you lived in New York during the era, which I cannot wait to hear more about. But you also have, like, what I like to say is, like, impenetrable personal style. Like, nothing is ever knocking you off kilter. Like, I can say something and say that is Larissa. And so I'm excited to talk today a little bit about what the experience was like, but also for people who are interested in looking like her and dressing like her and shopping, like, the more anti Internet CBK way to do it from the both of us. So we'll get into that a little later in the episode as well. So I want to set the scene a little bit because you lived in New York during this era, so. So tell me, what were women wearing in New York during the CBK era?

[B]

Well, I think that's the thing. And I'm not the only one that's noticed this because a lot of the women of my age group, it's kind of. It's been sort of a hilarious side chat. It's been on all of our phones where we're all like. I mean, everybody dressed like that. It was sort of like the frenzy that was happening was a little bit like, okay, like the style. Yes. Like, she had. She had great style, but it really was the uniform. There was definitely that. That. That uniform of the 90s. And I think I wrote. I did two different pieces, but, like, I was shopping at Banana Republic at the time, and, you know, she was wearing Prada. But it was a very similar. It was a similar silhouette. It was minimalism. It was. It just was sort of a sign of the time. So everyone kind of had that mood. So we. We were all kind of. Not that we wouldn't be shocked because she definitely was making waves. Just how she carried herself. I think that's what it was at the time, to be honest. I remember always thinking that John had the amazing personal style. Hopefully people won't come at me, but I always thought she looked great and of the moment, but I never fully Was thinking like, oh my God, I've never seen anything like this. I think it was really more about her. So it was the combination of the two of them and her.

[A]

Yeah, I could imagine that John's style felt more avant garde for the time than hers did. I mean we're talking about the 90s. Like Calvin Klein was the biggest brand in the US for sure. Every woman wanted to dress like the Calvin Klein woman. So it begs the question for me, like, was she a style icon in that moment or was it more about like their relationship, like where people obsessed with them the way people are now obsessed with like, you know, any Hollywood couple.

[B]

So although, and I, I, I say that, you know, trying to think back, like, I think really the, the real thing for me where I will say her wedding dress, that I feel like that was something where she was doing something different than what other people were doing. So like when, now I'm looking back and going like, okay, like there was that, that, that, that. But where I personally felt like, oh wow, like I'm gonna like take note of her personal style. It was her decision to wear that dress. Because up until that point I feel like a lot of the dresses, like now it would, I feel like it's no big deal. Probably a slip dress, but it was so paired back. It was so minimalist. It was, it looked very new, different, interesting, fresh. So for that like, so she, she probably did. It's just that I, none of, we all were sort of. I worked actually it was interesting. I worked for a hot minute for Ralph Lauren and like my co worker was working at for Calvin Klein. It's all during this time. So that's where it was sort of like. Well yeah, like that's what everyone wants to. It's that kind of look. But it's, it was the wedding dress where I think I really was like, okay, wait, she's got, she's got a very specific point of view. Like she's not just wearing the clothes. She actually is of this. There's something of her that's, that's part of the magic is really what I'm very random about.

[A]

You worked at Ralph Lauren in the 90s.

[B]

Okay. Literally like managing like, like, like this was, this was. I was not working as the PR person.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The 22 year old at Saks Fifth Avenue, like in the managing the. They had like, oh my God, it's so different now. It's like the fifth floor and we had like ck. We had Ralph Lauren, we had like they had these little like almost like built in, boutique type.

[A]

Like a stop and shop.

[B]

Like a. Yeah, it was like. It was like you had like the Ralph Lauren world over here and you had the CK world over here. And it's just kind of funny because at the time I was like, gonna get. I'm gonna get over to the CK world. Because CK felt so. Just very cool, obviously, at that point in time.

[A]

Do you ever see her in person?

[B]

I saw her once. I saw John all the time and again. Maybe that's part of the. Just he was constant. I think he wanted to be seen more, way more than she did, to be honest. So. But I worked in advertising and I only remember where his offices were, but they must have been close enough that I would see him, the bike, the whole thing. But it was just, he. He just to me had like. It was the accessory accessorizing that he did that always. That I always sort of noticed and was just not something that like most of the guys that I knew were wearing, whether it was advertising, finance, like, they just didn't. He definitely had a. Had a cool look. And now apparently guys are copying him now too. So.

[A]

You know what's funny? I actually saw a video of someone, someone posted on Instagram, like a guy crossing the street in New York and he was wearing like a backwards hat. But I feel like men in New York dress that way anyways.

[B]

I think they do. I agree.

[A]

Yes. Like, I don't think that this is a new thing. Like, like, this is like the way I feel. Like New York men have always been. Like, that vibe is. Is there.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

I think it would be. I think it would be more shocking if I saw like men in suits all day in New York.

[B]

That's actually a good point for you. For you right now.

[A]

Yes. I'd be more shocked by that.

[B]

For me, in the, in the 90s, like, people that was like, there was a uniform and like, he was not. He did not. He wore it differently. Like, he kind of made things casual. He had the different hats. He just. Even the riding the bike everywhere. That's not. Yeah. Guys I knew, like, they. If you're close enough, they were walking, they were taking the train. Like they weren't riding a bike everywhere.

[A]

Do you think for her it's more about aura? Like, do you think that there's like a way that she carried herself differently out in the world, like, having seen her that one time that like, feels different?

[B]

Totally. Because it's funny that even when I saw her, it was from like, probably a block away and, and it was one of those things where you kind of go, wait. I mean, obviously she's on, like, new, you know, magazine covers, whatever, but it's still. It's one of those. When a certain type of person aura is around you, you kind of. It's like an instinctual that you are drawn to it. So I just. I think that's really what we're drawn to with her. And I think that's true with a lot of people that get elevated, to be honest. I mean, but I think my whole point was that she just seemed my big thing. My big thing is she wore the clothes.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You could tell that it was not. It wasn't a costume or a uniform or, like, oh, I'm wearing what's current? It really was like, there was something about her that it just felt like it was very intentional. Yeah.

[A]

I think about what that would look like today. Like, would it be as impactful today? And every time I think about that, I think about just the change in, like, what we have access to from, like, the 90s to now. Like, I open up my Instagram and I see hundreds of incredible women with unbelievable style. And I wonder, truly, I've. In watching the show, I've been like, would this be as impactful today, or would it just be about their star power?

[B]

I think so.

[A]

Okay, a quick break from today's episode to share my Depop find of the month. Since we are talking about fashion, I had to share this one. Today's segment is brought to you by Depop, which is one of my favorite places to shop, especially when I'm looking for something special. This month, I found this incredible Dries Van Noten stripe button down. I love this top because it has that, like, slightly unexpected Dries stripe and colorway, and the proportions are really relaxed but tailored. And those are the pieces that I immediately want to add to my wardrobe because they make everything look so much cooler. And you guys know, for the podcast, I'm always looking for really great tops, things that stand out through video and feel really exciting and like, my personal style. And this feels like a perfect addition to that. It's classic, but a little bit offbeat, which I feel like is a Dries Van Noten staple. I love all of their pieces so much, and I'm so glad I found it on Depop. Lately, I've actually become quite picky about what I want to bring into my closet. I want to make sure that it could be worn in a lot of different ways. Like, can it be worn with jeans? Can it Be worn with cool pants over a skirt. Can I dress it up? Can I dress it down? Is it interesting? Of course, we all love our wardrobe basics, but I find that it's like the exciting pieces like this that really are the foundation of my wardrobe because they feel special and feel like my personal style. I have a trick for going through Depop and finding those pieces for you, and that is using keywords. Don't just go on Depop and Doom scroll. You will be there for hours. I always say when you're searching, search with intention. So I went on there and searched for Dries Van Note and top and searched from there. It's also so easy to refine from there through price point, fabric, et cetera. So you'll be able to find something that truly suits you. And bonus, if I find one good piece from a seller, I'll usually click into their full shop and that's where I'll really find the magic and I'll save them to my profile so I can always go back. I feel like it's about finding the people out there that have similar style to you and connecting with them because at the end of the day, those are the pieces that are going to resonate the most with your personal style and also how you're going to meet amazing other people who love fashion too. It's almost like discovering a mini boutique through somebody else's point of view. And that is my favorite part of Depop. And if you're someone who has a strong point of view through your personal style as well, someone out there probably wants to share it as well. Even if you're someone who's cleaning out your closet right now, a lot of people turn to Depop to list their items because you can literally list in minutes. Their AI powered listing makes it so easy and fast. There's really not a lot of work that needs to be done. They do item descriptions, smart price recommendations and key details that are populated automatically for you, which make the whole process seamless and totally worth it to see somebody buy pieces who will really value them as much as you did. Best part, there are no seller fees on Depop, which means that you get your money directly in your pocket. You can so quickly and easily turn clothes that you're no longer loving into extra cash. Okay, a little legal disclaimer, payment processing fees and boosting fees still apply, so see the website for details, but for me it really starts with the hunt. If you are looking for something specific or maybe you want to discover sellers with incredible taste, Depop is such a great place to start. Download the depop app and list your first item in just a few seconds.

[B]

Taps.

[A]

Okay, back to the episode. Okay, quick pause from today's episode because I have to tell you guys about a few of my favorite pieces that have been on my mind this spring from one of my favorite brands, Banana Republic. Lately, I have been so intentional about what I'm adding to my wardrobe. I'm really in this phase where I care a lot more about quality pieces that just feel worth investing in, that I will actually reach for over and over again. And Banana Republic has always been my tried and true. They have always been known for their workwear, especially those iconic 90s and early 2000s campaigns, which I feel like is really trending right now. For me, getting dressed for work doesn't really look the same every day. Some days it's a 9am meeting, and other days it's recordings, fittings, events. So I really need pieces that just feel put together and super easy. The archive inspired suede jackets like this one feel very classic. Banana Republic. It's structured, but still really relaxed. And of course, the tailoring has such a great polished look, but it's genuinely comfortable for your everyday life. It's that balance of structure and ease that I'm always looking for in my wardrobe. So for all of your spring shopping needs, shop new arrivals at Banana Republic. I want to zoom out a little bit because, you know, I feel like on Instagram, we're seeing like, you know, if you get this exact coat, you're going to look like cbk. I think people even, like, let's talk about the. The resell of her exact items are going for hundreds of thousands of dollars. What is it about, like, now that you think people are trying to kind of reinterpret the looks, like, through replication? Like, do you think that lands the same and why do you think it's resonating so much right now?

[B]

It actually ties back into our first conversation. The thing that you had said, like, if you could change something, what would it be? And I had said, like, I wish we could slow down fashion down. Like, I wish we could just slow all of it down. And back in the 90s, it was way slower. Like, you didn't have. Like, you're saying there's so much out there, there's so much to choose from, there's so much content. It's just, I kind of think that what is going on now, and it's like the good and the bad, there are too many there. There are so Many choices. There's so much noise. I mean, I can't even go on Instagram now. Like, I just. I'd never go on TikTok. I'm. I don't scroll. Like, it's just too. It's too much. It's definitely taking you out of. It's like if you do yoga, any of that type of mindful. I'm not very good at all that. But I like the. I like the. I like the idea around it, but of being in the present and there is something about scrolling and all these things that is most definitely not in the present. It's just like, it's a. It's like a. It's like an add. Like, oh, that. Wait, I have to be over there. I have to go there. It's a constant. But I think. I think what's going on a little bit with her and where. It's like, it's. Honestly, it's not their fault. There's so much information. There's so many different styles. There's so much going on that it's really appealing to, which is why the whole, like, this aesthetic, that aesthetic, everything has to like. They're trying to break it down. And I realized, I was like, they're putting labels and trying to categorize because it's impossible to deal with this much information coming at you. Your brain. I think at this point, like, there has to be some way to organize this. And so that's why you have like Tomato Girl and what all the different cottage core and whatever is. They're trying to, like, figure out different categories to figure out where do I fit in? Because there's. There's. There are too many choices at this point. So, like, I think with Carolyn, it's a very easy. It's very easy to sort of. Oh, great. Like, this is. We can. We can replicate this quite easily. We. We can. Like, this is doable. This is. In a way, it's attainable. And it kind of takes away the stress and the anxiety around. You could be that girl, that girl, this girl, this girl. Like, who. Who do you want to be? I don't know. I think that may be part of it. It's like they say with child raising, like, you don't say, what do you want for dinner? It's like, you can have. You can have chicken or you can have fish. Like, we're narrowing this down for you. And I think. I think that's maybe part of it. And obviously you have a TV show that is on. It's nostalgic the 90s. Some of us are reliving. Some of us are finding it for the first time. Like, you're saying, like, it's getting. People are being introduced to her. And so it's kind of. There's a novelty around that. But, yeah, I think that's. It's, you know, it's very marketable.

[A]

Very marketable. But I am curious, from your end, like, while we're talking about just, like, kind of all these, like, micro trends, which is what I like to call them, you're someone who's in fashion, and you're constantly inundated with trends. How do you engage with them in a way that you feel is, like, healthy for your personal style?

[B]

Well, it's funny because back to the. Like, I'm not consuming much, so a part of me. It's weird. It's like I try to get the trends through. I don't even know how to explain this, like, through osmosis of, like, being around in the city or somewhere or traveling. But I don't, like. I don't study it. I couldn't tell you. If you showed me a bunch of different outfits, I. I'd probably have, like, a low average of which one was which designer. Like, I'm not studying it like that. So I try to sort of breathe in what's happening generally and form it into my own style as opposed to, like, really being on top of it, if that makes sense. Like, I. Whatever. Like, it's almost like my own natural filter. So. So I don't. I'm just not part of it, too. I don't want to be. I don't like being online so much that I don't want to be influenced. Like, I want to have some separation where I can feel like I'm coming to something on my own. Because it's a natural evolution that things do kind of come around. It's just like, I don't know, certain looks, they start to feel fresh again because you haven't seen them in 30 years or whatever. And so that's just like a natural thing that we all are kind of going through it at the same time. But if I see stuff too much, then I'm gonna feel like, oh, God, am I copying that? Or am I just naturally gravitating? And I don't wanna just copy. So I don't even know if that answers the question. But it's like, I. Yeah, I don't. I don't pay attention a lot. So I feel like that's part of the. That's Part of being able to process. Yeah, it's because I. I don't actually see a lot. So that's a good thing. Like, I'm able to. Not. Not overwhelmed because I'm not looking at it.

[A]

In your article, you said that her style was a really good lesson in discernment. Can you break that down a little bit and what that means and why you think it resonated so much with you?

[B]

I just think that, like, she had the. She had. She had way more choices than most of us had in terms of a wardrobe. And she obviously could have worn, you know, many different things. Could have whatever. She, you know, even jewelry. She was very minimal in her jewelry choices. She was so. Her makeup. I mean, again, like, this is a woman who she could have put. She could have had makeup artists. She could have. But she clearly, like, made a very definitive choice to. To keep things very pulled back and under. Understated. And it seemed like it was part of her overall personality, too. Like, it fit with her personality. That's another part. It's just like, if you're this part, like, life of the party and then you're trying to cosplay cbk, like, I don't know. It's not a fit, you know, so everything sort of like, fit to who she appeared or seemed to be from not knowing her. But it resonated, like, everything was resonating on. On all levels, like, good for her. I don't think she wore mascara, and that's just not going to happen for me. But, like, she did it and she. And again, it's just like, I could never. I don't think the. No mascara. Like, I love mascara, but I love that she kind of went there. I don't know. It's just like, there's a confidence in her style choices.

[A]

I'm currently working on this myself is like, how do you go into a wardrobe full of clothes and decide what's for you and what's not for you? We all buy things sometimes on impulse. Maybe there's, like, some things in our closet that we never wear, but we just, like, kind of keep them there. How do you think that we can take that same level of discernment into the way we get dressed every day?

[B]

There's a bit of Sybil, which is why I like Carrie in a way, because it's just, like, depending on the day. Like, sometimes I feel like I'm so. I'm. I'm lazy. I don't want anything to be tight. I want it all loose. I'm almost slothy slobby girl. And then other times I feel like I'm very. Like, things are structured, they're tight because I'm in the mood for that. But I wasn't in the mood for it yesterday, and that's okay. I think the. The through line is just like, there might be probably colors I'm drawn to or I like layering. I like pattern. I like, you know, I like something that's going to, like, I don't know, be unexpected. Now, I've had many, many, many mishaps, but I look back and I'm like, why would I ever wear that? But, like, it fit the mood in the day, you know? I think a lot of times, though, it's like, what do I feel like? I feel such a. I don't want to say good wearing. It's not about feeling good. It's. I've often thought, like, it depends. It's like how I want to move through the room. It depends on the environment. Like, if I'm in an environment where I'm going to be sitting at a very. Like, it's more formal, or I'm going to be standing most of the night, there are certain clothes that are going to resonate with me than others. If I'm going to be around, like, kids and, like, it's more informal, I want to move. There's a way I'm going to move through that room that I'm. That will be different than others. There's also sort of like a protection that clothes have for me. So if I'm in a situation where I feel more nervous, which is most of the time in any, like, social situation, because I'm. I'm. I'm more introverted. So being out in that. A crowd or whatever, I tend to have. It's almost like an armor. Like, there are certain pieces that I feel like I have, like, a little bit of space or like, protection. It's weird, but. Yeah, like, some clothes are more vulnerable than others. So it's. It's got a lot of emotional clothing. Clothing has a lot of emotional components to it. I think I think about this all

[A]

the time, which is that good? Do I go outside sometimes and pick an outfit based on the way that I want the setting that I'm going into to perceive me?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[A]

Which. Which I think is not good. Like, I think everybody does this.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Do I necessarily think it's the healthiest thing ever? Absolutely not. But do we all do it because we're human?

[B]

Okay, but explain. Explain Explain. Go further with that.

[A]

I would love to get to a point where I. I would love to wake up every day and dress for my eyes only and what makes me feel really good and not wear this, like, very fashiony dress to.

[B]

Okay, I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying.

[A]

A dinner where someone's gonna be like, whoa, you know, like, I sometimes will dress based on the room that I'm walking into. I think we all do that. But I want to get dressed for myself every day and not for the things. For perception.

[B]

I see. I see what you're saying. Okay. There may be a point too. Like, as you get older, there is a little bit of. You're not. It is easier. I have to say, when you're older, I feel like it is easier. It's easier. It is like, you just don't care. You can't even take credit because it's really. Just age does it?

[A]

So it's not like time has been the most beautiful gift for my personal style. Time is the true unlock. And, like, I'm only 32, but, like, looking at who I was 22 to now, I'm like, oh, my God, those are different fashion people. And thank God. What a gift time has given me.

[B]

I would say, though, okay, turn it around when you see. Because this is how I feel when I'm in a room. When I see everyone, I'm like, yep. I. I actually. I just. I just wrote something today about bags. And my point was they're, like, it bags. I'm, like, naming things now. There are it bags, which we know and. And I named, but there are now bags. Stay with me. So an it bag is like, what we all know is the it bag because they told us it's the it bag. And then a now bag is basically like. It is very. It feels very of the moment, feels very current. But, like, I've chosen that now bag because I can see there's something in it that. That is resonating with the times, but it is not one of those bags. Okay? So to me, when I see a woman at a. Let's say, a party, and I see a lot of them that I'm like, yup, yup, check, check, check, check, check. Right? They've all. They've. They've checked the boxes. But then there's one person that is like, huh, that's not quite. That's always the one I'm gonna look at. That's always the one that I'm always sort of like, oh, like, she's she's got something going. Like, she was confident enough to break out of that and kind of do it in her own way. And so, I don't know. Like, I feel like at the end of the day, I find that I'm more intrigued by that. That one. That's. I guess they're more vulnerable, and they are. It is a more vulnerable, but that's where, like, that. There's, like, a confidence that comes in with that. So. And, I mean, you've. You have earned that place to dress for you, like, just for you. So. Yeah. I mean, you have. You have all the knowledge of all the designers and all the. And to be able to. You have all that foundation behind you. I feel like now like, you just. You just need to go with Just. Just you.

[A]

Yeah. I went to. I went to dinner on Saturday night, and I was wearing the new Chanel shoes with the. They're like, square toe. And a guy was like, I hate those toes. And I looked at him, and I was like. I just was like, this is not for you, buddy.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

This is not for you. Thank you so much.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Love your khakis. Love your khakis so much.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

So I want to get into a little bit of what I like to call, like, the CBK anti toolkit. So for people who are out there in the world, I want to share how people can, like, take inspiration from how she dresses and make it their own without exactly copying what she wore. And there are, like, a few tools that I think she has that, like, I really love. And one of them is, like, she really knows her silhouette as you. And I said, like, yes. She wears kind of, like, the long. Everything's a bit longer. She is a bit taller. I also think hair plays a big, really big role. Her hair is really long. Yeah, Hair is. Hair is everything.

[B]

Hair has been the accessory. And I mean, I have to laugh. My daughter did send me one thing that was funny. Like, I'm sure I'm missing most of it, but the pen, the hair, the smoking. I'm not a smoker, but I literally. I'm like. I want to, like, why is everything look cooler? And everyone's going to get mad because you're not supposed to promote. I'm not promoting it, but, like, she looks cooler doing it. She does. I'm sorry.

[A]

I think the hair stuff is so real. Like, the hair stuff.

[B]

The hair is real.

[A]

And I say that maybe because I'm a jealous brunette, but I can think of five blondes right now who I'm like, your style is better because you are blonde like that and the picture and the vibes.

[B]

Yes, it works exactly.

[A]

Carolyn Zach Kennedy is one of them. Because that long blonde hair made everything just look so it adds so much to it. Does it add color? I can't pinpoint it.

[B]

Well, it's like for me it's light reflection. Right. I really love, I love light reflection. Like in, you know, because that's the, like a beaded bag or you know, the whatever. So there's light reflection with that and there's movement and it may, it somehow it makes it. There's something effortless and carefree about it because it doesn't have like a, an uptight feel to it. There's a freedom with it. And I think that's what again, so that would be another element. Like, okay, maybe it's that I'm wanting to, I'm drawn to like light reflection and more free, free flow and casual and. Okay, so like, maybe your jeans are super casual. Maybe they're a little bigger and they're a little low or, you know, you're, you're not wearing tighter, tight silhouettes. You're wearing things a little bit looser. Like, maybe that's going to give you that feel. I did love her jeans, I have to say. Like, I liked the, I really love, I do love that slight boot on her and the shorter, because I like how you can see the shoes. Like, I don't know why that is like one of the things that pulls me into her. Like, I like seeing those shoes. I like seeing those shoes and those shoes and those boots. But it's partly because those jeans are cropped where they're hitting. Yep.

[A]

Yeah, let's talk about this a little bit because I think proportions are everything. And it's something I've learned a lot in the last like 10 years of getting dressed every day. I think only now at 32, I'm beginning to understand my proportions. Like, I'm a low slung girl. Like, I high waist cuts me so strangely. Like, I should not be wearing high waist. And I've been wearing high waist for 10 years. Okay, guys, we're figuring things out in our 30s. We're really coming to. But you know, she wore things like she was tall, it made her look longer. Like, I have really long legs but like a short torso. So, like, I should be wearing something that's like a bit more low slung. And I completely agree that that one little tailoring detail of being able to see a shoe can change an entire Outfit. So for you, how have you been able to like dress for your proportions?

[B]

Okay, well, I'm not the person to ask because proportionally I should never wear anything low slum. Ever. Never should I ever do that. Except that again, moving through the room. Like, I, I like, I also am sort of lazy. So I like to. I don't want to have something always like up on my waist or feeling around my waist. I like it low because that of feels like they're falling off and I like that slouchiness like a jean. I stopped dressing for my body a while ago because I was sort of like. But I like that look or whatever. So I just did it.

[A]

I love this.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

No, I do. It's funny because I've never seen you wear something and been like, that doesn't work on her because you do lean into like the oversized, the layers and it just kind of works. So I think you can be both ways. But I think Carolyn specifically really dressed for her body type.

[B]

She definitely did. I mean, I would, I'll tell you, I'll. I'll point out when a, When I have a. If it's a long dress or like a long skirt, it's not great on me. And I know that, but I don't care. I still like the look, but it does some somewhat swallow me up. Like I look like a child that's wearing mom's clothes a little.

[A]

How do you offset that if you love it and you feel like it doesn't work for you?

[B]

I don't care. Yeah, I don't know. I don't care. Like I just like, I don't care. I like the long skirt. Whatever. It's not the best. Yes, it shortens me, but, oh well, like it's. I love the skirt, but I love the skirt. So the crazy eyes for the skirt. And I'm going to wear it even

[A]

today I'm wearing this skirt that's like high waisted and I don't really think it's my best. But I love this skirt. Guys.

[B]

You know what, Rob? There you go.

[A]

What am I supposed to do? Take it to the tailor and like get it taken down to my belly button? I might.

[B]

I mean, I. Sometimes I'll like, okay, the long skirt. Like I probably will. Will. I'm not even doing a purpose, but maybe I will wear a high. Like I need. I feel like I need a heel.

[A]

You know what's really annoying?

[B]

The look.

[A]

Here's what I'm just annoyed by in life in general.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Everything I wear looks A hundred times better with a heel.

[B]

It really kind of does.

[A]

And I.

[B]

Yes, agreed.

[A]

You know, it's one of my only benefits of living in LA is that I can wear my heel and get in the car, but I have an entire wardrobe of heels, and it's like, girl, where are you going? Like, I don't know where she's going.

[B]

Wherever you want to go.

[A]

I know. But I have precious. Been thinking a lot about, like, you know, the. One of the. One of my hardest. And this is so dramatic, hardest fashion questions is when I'm at the tailor and she's tailoring my pants, and she's like, do you want these for heels or for flats? And I'm like, one time. One time I said, do it for both. And she looked at me, she was like, that's not a thing. And I was like, let's make it a thing. Give me a mid range. But I did do that with one pair of pants once, and now they're. They just look funny.

[B]

Exactly. I was gonna say mid range isn't gonna work.

[A]

Nope.

[B]

For either. Yep. So now you're just. It's an either.

[A]

I think this is, like, really refreshing. I think a lot of people are like, follow the rules. Dress for what's best for you. Make you look your best. But, like, there are pieces that we love, and we're gonna.

[B]

They are. I'm just doing it.

[A]

It's also, like, the reality also is, like, it's very expensive to have a very tailored wardrobe. You have to either be model size, which is no. 1 on this planet, or you're taking every piece to the tailor and getting it perfectly fit for you. And that's just not realistic. And that's okay.

[B]

I mean, I cut. I'll cut pants.

[A]

I used to do this in college.

[B]

Well, I'm still there.

[A]

Yeah, I. It's. I used to literally take scissors to things and, like, walk out the house with a raw hem, because I was like, they didn't fit.

[B]

No.

[A]

You know, I didn't fit.

[B]

I like it. It's also a look. A raw hem. It's a look.

[A]

It works.

[B]

And for me, trust me, there's still, like, I'm cutting. I mean, something.

[A]

You're cutting a huge amount. Yeah, it's.

[B]

It's a huge amount. Like. And I'm still keeping it really long, so you're not. You're barely even seeing it anyway, so.

[A]

Right. Right. Okay, guys, you heard it here first. Either way goes. Just wear what you love.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. My second tool that I've Learned from CBK is. And one thing that you said, too, in the article is that she edited ruthlessly. So what does that mean? What do you mean? When you're talking about editing your wardrobe, does that mean you're cleaning it out a lot? Or does that mean. Does this go back to the discernment conversation? Fill us in.

[B]

Well, I mean, the thing is, like, I don't actually know if she did that. I. I'm. That's what it looks like.

[A]

Right? Okay.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, everything in this. Our episode is speculative, guys. Yeah. Let's just put everything in this episode.

[B]

But, like, it just seems like she had a point of view. Like, she had a fashion point of view, and she stuck with it. So, like, to me, like, obviously, color palette, like, she did not stray, it seemed. Although I did see a picture of her in some, like, floral pink skirt, and I. And I nearly, like, fell over. And to be honest, I didn't love it. Yeah. And I didn't love it. That was the one time I remember I saw a picture recently. I was like, that just doesn't. To me, not her. Like, did somebody else dress her? I'm confused. What's going on. That aside, like, it just seemed like she very much gravitated toward the neutrals. The. And she stuck with it, and everything was just minimal. But this is why I mentioned the makeup is because you'll see someone putting on the minimal or quiet luxury look, and they have a full face of makeup, and this is where something is not. Like, to me, there's a little bit of a disconnect. Like, someone in this true, quiet luxury. Quiet luxury. To me, is that what she was leaning into, this Kennedy world, this no makeup, hair down, chic, east coast thing? And it was very much. I mean, especially back then, very much a look and a thing. Like, girls, women in that circle, they didn't wear makeup at all. It's just, like, there were certain markers of this world that I feel like she embodied too. And I don't know, like, was that on purpose? Like, maybe she was leaning into this world. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah. When I think about her style, the first thing that comes to mind, if I was, like, going through her closet right now, it would be great jeans, a bunch of simple white tees and black tees. Unbelievable. Jacket and coat closet.

[B]

Yep, that's it. Bag. A great, great bag she wears all the time.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's very well made.

[A]

But she repeated those things a lot, and that was like another tool I took again. Like, I looked through her style. And I was like, what are these, like, tools that we can learn from her? And like, another one was that repetition that you and I were talking about earlier.

[B]

Yeah, I think the repetition is one of the key things that. Because she's. She's really saying, like, she's short of her choices, she's not all over the place. So to me, that's where I go, okay, yeah, like, I can wear the same pair of jeans over and over and over. That's fine. Like, there's no reason to mix it up for the sake of mixing it up. You know, it works. Wear it.

[A]

It's funny, this exact thing that we're talking about is the antidote to modern day personal style on the Internet. Because think about it, on the Internet, we're just told all the time, newness, Buy this new thing, try this new trend. But at the end of the day is what makes someone have the most recognizable personal style is repetition. Yes, I think it is, yes. Because I think about. Let's even. Let's go back to like Hailey Bieber in like, you know, 2016 era. Right. Like, I can recall very specific things that she wore on repeat. It was the Bottegas, the Bottega introchato sandals and the bag. And she always had a great leather jacket and glasses. And that was just being cycled in different colorways. And it was the moment that defined her as a style icon.

[B]

Yes. Think, think about some of the designers, like Karl Lagerfeld, who wore the exact same thing over and over again. And it became like, oh, that's iconic. Why? Because he made it so.

[A]

Because he was asserting.

[B]

Sure of it. Sorted. This is my look. I mean, it's similar. Like, I feel that way about, like someone who always wears lipstick. It's kind of like a signature fragrance. You establish that, then it works. And she definitely did that. I agree.

[A]

What gets repeated the most in your closet?

[B]

I mean, jeans. Jeans.

[A]

Yes. But you also, like, this morning, I was thinking about you. I just want to see your skirts section.

[B]

Oh, I love skirts.

[A]

So do I. I love a skirt. But you really, to me, when I think of you, the first thing that comes to mind is like the power skirt.

[B]

Oh, I love a power skirt. Yeah. All skirts, it's silhouette, I think. I think that's actually more the like. And to me, that's how you. Instead of trends. To me. And I don't know if we talked about this, but, like, to me, it's not about, like, the exact pieces. It's really like the silhouette of it. The Silhouettes are what change. But if you are a vintage consignment type shopper, you will realize like, this has been done 40 years ago. This was done. It's repeating. So, like, what? What is it? It's a silhouette change. Go look at Christian Dior over the years. Like, they all. It's all the designers have their different thing, but the silhouette they followed, it's a silhouette.

[A]

So, yeah, I mean, the bar jacket, everything starts with the bar jacket for them.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And the silhouettes follow from there. Okay. To close out a new series on the show that we are starting with you today. I'm very excited about it. It's called let's get you dressed. And it is the answer to the trickle in of DMs that I get from people asking what to wear to certain things. So I posted on my Instagram for those of you who maybe want to get a chance to be shouted out on the pod and help me and the guest figure out what you need to wear for a certain occasion. I will always be putting a little question box on my Instagram on the weekends ahead of recordings so that you can submit. But I thought one that was perfect for you. We have Debbie, who is a mom and her son is getting married and she wants to know what to wear for her son's wedding. I checked out her Instagram. She's like so beautiful and like very classic style. They live in Massachusetts, so they're on the east coast.

[B]

Forget like a specific brand, but a website. I feel like I there for a mother of the bride, moda operandi is without a doubt to me. For me, I go nuts over the. The formal. Like, what they have to offer. It is. It's so pretty. And it's like I feel like they. They do have a little bit like different. Some of them are a little bit different. Yeah, they're. I don't see them everywhere. They're. They have color. It's not just a sea of like black dresses, evening dresses. If they don't, they don't look like. Sorry, but they don't look like game show host.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Evening gowns. Yep.

[A]

That's a tough one. I think for mother of the bride dresses, it's like, how do you find something that's pretty and doesn't feel like you're on a game show. I totally agree. Yes.

[B]

I hate, I hate to. But like, they do lean to that. Like, if you go to a lot of sites, a lot of the evening wear, like when you see formal or mother of the bride, you're like, like, it does not. It. It.

[A]

Yeah, Any do's and don'ts. Don't wear white. Duh.

[B]

I know. Don't wear white is true. I'm not a huge. Again, it depends on the wedding. Like, I'm not a huge fan of black even. But if it's a black tie wedding and that's what they want, and that's the look of it, then it can be fabulous. So it depends. I think it depends on the woman. But, like, I feel like they. They. It's kind of like prom where girls all of a sudden, they never wear their hair up, but then for prom, they think, oh, it's prom, I should wear my hair up. And they do the prom hair.

[A]

Please don't do that. This is so spot on.

[B]

Just be. It's you. Whatever your style is, whatever that is. Since we don't have any parameters, whatever her. Lean into that. But just elevate it for this occasion. But, like, don't become somebody else for this occasion. Like, I don't. I also don't really. I don't love. Like, you become the Easter Bunny. Like, I feel like there's like, a big mother of the bride Easter bunny thing that happens. Like, you have to wear some bright color again, if you're a color person, great. But, like, if that's not you, then you. Then you don't need to be Easter egg colored. I've seen that a few times.

[A]

Like, it gets very pastel.

[B]

It gets very pastel. And they think it's a wedding, and they think I'm going with spring. I'm just. But like, they get very pastel. It's like, you never wear pastels. You always are, like, Right. You're like the beige person, and now you're in, like, pale pink. Don't do that. I would wear pale pink.

[A]

Right, but you wear a lot of color. Exactly.

[B]

I wear a lot of color and I love pink. And it's like, not. It's not a jarring thing. So.

[A]

Yes, I agree. I. So as someone who, like, my wedding was in the last two years and, like, had. I have four sisters and my husband has three sisters. And so we had literally 10 women to, like, help get ready. I completely agree. It's like, don't try to become this, like, alternate version of yourself. Stay in your color lanes. Like, do the kind of glam that you usually do. Just, like, up a little bit more. I was gonna say, I really like what my mom wore to my wedding. She wore this, like, Monique Lillier kind of, like, beautiful Bodice, but it had this cape that she wore for the ceremony. Like a chiffon cape, which I'm not gonna lie, I really do think for mother of the Bride, there's something about a cape. Or I know that we're kind of over the scarf thing, but, like, I do think there's something very beautiful and, like, maternal. Maybe I sound crazy, but, like, I love what she wore. And then she took the cape off for the party, and I thought that was so, so, so beautiful.

[B]

I love that. I mean, I would also say, too, like, there's, like, the mother of the bride that is, like, obnoxiously trying to take over and be the star of the show. Like, obviously, that's a don't.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But also, like, you are a. You are an important member.

[A]

Yes. You're up on the stage. Like, have it be a moment. Yes, yes. So you.

[B]

So feel free to have it be a moment. Like, you don't need to under sell yourself either. Like, you can look glamorous. Whatever. This brings me back to all comes around to cbk. Her hair and her. The dress. That's the point. Like, she in her wedding was the way she dressed in real life. Like, even her hair was very understated. I don't even, like, was it up? It may have been down. It was in a bun.

[A]

It was in, like, a messy bun.

[B]

Yeah, it was a messy bun. That's right. That's right. Exactly. It was.

[A]

It was very her. Yeah. There's a great follow that I still follow even though I'm post wedding. Her name is Little White Looks at Little White Looks. She's been on the podcast before, and she is a bridal stylist, and she has an incredible shop. My account that she updates, like, I think she's updating it weekly. And she's got bridesmaids dresses in every color for every category.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I'm gonna follow her because pinks, greens, blues.

[B]

I just like it anyway.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

She's got a great someone that does good bridal.

[A]

Yep. She's got guest dresses, black tie, cocktail beach inspired, and then she also has a whole section of mother of the bride and mother of the groom dresses. And I would highly recommend following her because I think she's got a good handle on that industry. If you're looking. I hope this was helpful. Debbie, thank you so much for coming on today. You are so wonderful.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I loved this conversation. And again, you are such a great follow. If you guys listening right now, do not follow. Larissa, please go follow her. She's Larissa Mills on Instagram and TikTok. And you're gonna fall in love with her and her personal style. Yeah, another style icon to follow. I hope I get to see you soon, irl. And you'll have to come back on the pod again soon. I love having you on. I'll see you soon.

[B]

Bye. Bye.