Heather Gay: Bad Mormon to a Good Time Girl

Summary

Let's Talk Off Camera with Kelly Ripa

Episode: "Heather Gay: Bad Mormon to a Good Time Girl"

Release Date: September 17, 2025
Host: Kelly Ripa
Guest: Heather Gay (Real Housewives of Salt Lake City)

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Episode Overview

This episode brings together Kelly Ripa and Heather Gay for a candid, unfiltered conversation about Heather’s journey from devoted Mormon to outspoken reality TV star and author of Bad Mormon and Good Time Girl. They dig into the complexities of Mormon culture, religious secrets, reality TV drama, and Heather’s evolution into embracing a "good time girl" persona beyond her church upbringing. The episode is rich with insider stories from the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, revelations about Mormon practices, and personal moments about motherhood, divorce, and starting anew.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Heather’s Departure from Mormonism

• Documentary: Heather is filming a new documentary on Mormonism with the team from Leah Remini’s Scientology series. (09:15)
  • Kelly: “You are so getting banished from the celestial kingdom. Are you afraid of that?”
  • Heather: “I used to be, but now I hope to be banished because I do not want to be there with the people.” (09:29)
• Fear of Backlash:
  • Heather describes being terrified at first to reveal church secrets—especially the temple ceremony.
  • “We make vows in the temple that we’ll never reveal any of it, or we’ll basically disembowel and cut our throats. So you’re not allowed to ever retell what we wear or what we do.” (12:14)
• Secrecy and Rituals Inside Mormon Temples:
  • Clothing: Head-to-toe white, green fig leaf aprons, veils, men with caps tied to their shoulders—accompanied by secret handshakes, tokens, and oral rituals. (13:20)
  • Heather: “It is so secret. It is the greatest, biggest kept secret in the Mormon Church. Until I went and physically saw everyone dressed like that … It is a shell shock for every member.” (12:54)
• Cult Comparisons:
  • Heather now believes the LDS Church is cult-like, citing the zealotry and secrecy.
  • “It’s the church in its entirety. … We look so normal and mainstream, but what we do in secret … no one would realize how absolutely allegiant we are.” (15:13)

2. Navigating Life Post-Church: Ostracism & Family

• Social Fallout: Heather is still surrounded by practicing Mormons (family, friends, customers), but “I’m not invited over for Sunday dinner.” (17:12)
  • “They won’t read the book, they won’t watch the show, they won’t acknowledge anything that’s any value that I’ve garnered from being on TV or from writing the books, whatever that has holds no currency where I live.” (17:19)

3. Mormon Wealth, Culture, and Purity Fixations

• Perceptions of Wealth: Kelly notes that Mormon communities, at least in Utah, are often affluent – “That’s the rich religion, Jan.”
• Church’s Wealth: Heather: “The church is worth $260 billion. … It’s a huge, huge institution.” (18:41)
• Sexual Loopholes:
  • Soaking: Described as “insertion with no movement, no thrusting, just soaking.” (19:20)
    • “If the penis were a sponge and the vagina were a bowl of water … just place it in and no motion.” (19:20)
  • Jump Pumping: Heather says she never saw it and thinks it’s an urban legend—no third-person bouncing in BYU dorms! (20:11)
  • Soft Swinging: A way for married Mormons with no experience to “dabble, but not be adulterers.” Usually, it’s discussed and agreed upon (24:21).

4. Getting Cast on Real Housewives of Salt Lake City

• Casting Story: Invited through Lisa Barlow, originally thought she’d just refer names—not join herself. (26:29)
• No Family Warning: Heather hid her involvement from her family, understood they’d disapprove and fear excommunication. Her bishop advised her to carry a glass of milk at events so no one suspected she was drinking alcohol. (27:26)
• Faking It vs. Authenticity:
  • Considered hiding her real lifestyle for the show, but realized, “I knew I could pull the wool over the church’s eyes … but you cannot fake it with the viewing audience.” (29:49)

5. Mormon Garments Demystified

• “Sacred Garments”: Essentially, a T-shirt with boob cups and bike shorts, mandatory for active members.
  • “It’s like wearing an outfit underneath your outfit … They got so hard, cumbersome.” (32:42)
  • One-piece options exist—with a “butt flap.” You need a barcoded card showing good standing to buy them. (33:24)

6. Dishy Housewives and Franchise Secrets

• Jen Shah: Heather hasn’t talked to her since she entered prison; doesn’t expect to run into her unless Jen visits her business. (34:53)
• The Black Eye Incident: Heather didn’t know how she got the black eye; “I was protecting myself and protecting her … I didn’t have much to go on … I was just that drunk.” (35:45)
• Monica Garcia: Was shocked anyone stayed friends after her deception.
  • “There was no world that she would have been in our world and been our friend … How are we supposed to process friendship with someone that was never our friend to begin with?” (37:37)
• Cast Friendships:
  • With Bronwyn: “I really love these women. I love fighting with them, but I love getting along more … I am a go along to get along girl.” (38:45)
• Lisa Barlow:
  • “What people might not believe is that she’s exactly the same off camera as she is on. … There is no persona.” (49:36)
  • “I believe it’s smart, emotional intelligence to learn who you can push and who you can’t.” (48:55)
• Salt Lake City Housewives Bond:
  • “We are all each other’s got in Salt Lake City. … I no longer can kiki with my Mormon friends. … We are all each other’s got in Salt Lake City and I think that makes us a unique friend group and possibly a unique franchise in reality TV.” (51:35)

7. Personal Life, Motherhood & the Future

• Motherhood and Dating:
  • Heather prioritized raising her daughters over dating post-divorce, but is now stepping into single life as an empty nester.
  • “Now that the girls are leaving, I’m really going to change my focus, and I’m excited about it.” (54:21)
  • Kelly: “You are a stone cold fox. … Guys, we’re going to have to form a perimeter at the house.” (55:20)

8. Religion and Belief—Universality and Absurdity

• The conversation turns to religious beliefs more generally:
  • Heather: “All religion has something almost unbelievable unless you’re a believer.” (46:06)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Mormon Fear of Hell:

  • Kelly: “So if you’re banished celestial kingdom, is that the same as burning in hell?”
  • Heather: “We Mormons give everybody three chances … then outer darkness, which would be equivalent to burning in hell. But we just believe you’re floating in eternal blackness with no progression and no hope or joy or no family.” (09:52)

• On Writing the Book “Bad Mormon”:

  • Heather: “There’s no way I would ever put my face with Bad Mormon in front of it. … I was just so entrenched and still loyal. But then, things happened—fame mostly. Fame and independent income.” (10:54)
  • Kelly: “Independent income. They won.” (11:59)

• On Temple Secrets and Rituals:

  • Heather: “We wear head to toe white, but then we wear a stark Kelly green fig leaf apron over our loins and we veil our faces … priests’ robes and nylons and slippers. … We do secret handshakes, … secret rites of passage.” (13:20)

• On LDS Church as a Cult:

  • Heather: “It’s still like, chokes my throat to say the church is a cult … but if you want to call us a church, then we are religious zealots.” (14:29)

• On Soaking/JUMP Pumping:

  • Heather (on soaking): “Insertion with no movement, no thrusting, just soaking." (19:20)
  • Kelly (on third person): “So does that require a third person in the church or a coin operated bed?" (20:12)

• On Housewives Camaraderie:

  • Heather: “I just really love these women. I love fighting with them, but I love getting along more…when it’s good, I want to keep it good.” (38:45)

• On Lisa Barlow’s Consistency:

  • Heather: “What people might not believe is that she’s exactly the same off camera as she is on. … If it is a persona, it runs so deep that I’ve never seen anything otherwise.” (49:36)

• On Living Authentically:

  • Heather: “I would have done it if I thought I could have managed it, but I knew that the audience would have seen through it, and that was something I didn’t want to deal with.” (29:49)

• On Readjusting to Single Life:

  • Heather: “I really thought having a great love just wasn’t going to be part of my story … but I think there’s still an opportunity.” (54:21)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [09:11] Heather joins; discusses new Mormonism documentary
• [10:54] On publishing “Bad Mormon” and fear of backlash
• [13:20] Secrets of LDS temple ceremonies and clothing
• [14:29] Is Mormonism a cult?
• [17:04] Social and community consequences after leaving the Church
• [18:41] Discussion of Mormon wealth and Church finances
• [19:20] Explaining “soaking” and sexual loopholes
• [24:21] “Soft swinging” in Mormon culture
• [26:29] How Heather was cast on Real Housewives
• [29:49] Faking faith, authenticity, and why she ultimately left the Church
• [32:25] Mormon sacred garments explained
• [34:53] Update on Jen Shah and cast dynamics
• [37:37] Monica Garcia mole drama and betrayal
• [38:45] Current feelings about the cast and friendship philosophy
• [49:36] Lisa Barlow’s true persona
• [51:35] Unique bond among the Salt Lake City Housewives
• [54:21] Heather’s new chapter: being an empty nester and dating again

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Episode Tone

The conversation is irreverent, warm, and full of sharp wit, with plenty of laughter, inside jokes, and reality-TV references. Both Kelly and Heather blend humor and vulnerability, keeping the discussion both “unhinged” and deeply honest.

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This episode is indispensable for Real Housewives fans, those interested in Mormonism, or anyone curious about how faith, fame, and forging a new life intersect. Heather Gay’s candor shines—and Kelly Ripa ensures it’s a very good time.

Transcript

[A]

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[C]

I think that self preservation is often misconstrued as kissing someone's ass. I believe it's smart emotional intelligence to learn who you can push and who you can't.

[A]

Somebody gotta cue me or do I cue myself?

[C]

Cue yourself.

[A]

Okay. All right. We are back with another episode of let's Talk off camera. So let's get talking. Ever since we interviewed Oprah, I can't stop saying it with my Oprah revoice.

[D]

I love the.

[A]

I mean, it just gives and gives.

[D]

I can watch that social media clip over and over again of her talking about it.

[A]

Let me tell you something. Very rarely, not since Lola Consuelos have I gotten that much feedback from people I know listening to my podcast.

[E]

And what was the feedback?

[A]

They just loved her. And it's so funny. These are people who are our peers.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And they had forgotten Oprah's origin story. Wow. So, Jan, good on you and good on your sons for not knowing Oprah other than Oprah the billionaire. Because people in our group who should know better have forgotten.

[E]

And if you missed that episode, Albert does an excellent Oprah impersonation himself.

[A]

He does.

[E]

But shocking.

[A]

I didn't know that.

[E]

Albert also does a great Andy Cohen.

[C]

Which I just heard.

[D]

Listen to this going. All this chatter.

[A]

Kelly. What? Do it again.

[D]

I was talking about Oprah. Let's talk about Andy at some point. But we all do that. Kelly does it too. It's not that hard to do.

[A]

None of us are doing Andy. Not even Andy. We are all doing Kristen Johnson. That's the clear we Are all. Even Andy are doing an impersonation of Kristen Johnston. Okay? She is the originator of all of our collective voice. Okay, Sweeties, guys. Bravo fans. God, we have so many Bravo fans. And these girls deliver. People are endlessly fascinated by the Real Housewives, and today we are talking to our guest who wrote the book literally on going from a bad Mormon to a good time girl. She's proof that even if you're excommunicated, you can still be divine. That's right. We are talking with Real Housewives of Salt Lake City's iconic Heather Gay. You know, Jake Shears from Scissor Sisters is downstairs right now preparing for his Madison Square Garden show tomorrow night. When this airs, I don't know, but it will have passed. But he is the biggest Salt Lake City fan and he has an event to do right now, or he would be here because he's dying to, like, co interview Heather Gay with you.

[D]

You should give him the zoom link.

[A]

I know. I actually should. You're right. Season six is kicking off this week, so. I can't believe it's six seasons. I'm shocked by that. I feel like it's been three seasons.

[E]

It's been good.

[A]

Yeah, it's really good. What do you think Heather's gonna bring us today, Jan?

[E]

She's, like, really good at, like, talking about the girls. Like, to be honest, like, she really, like, drops some tea about all of them. So I think it'll be fun to be a little dishy with her. The thing about this one that's so interesting is, is the whole aspect of the Mormons, because as much as I know about them and I actually learn about it, like, these women are drinking on camera.

[A]

They're just. It's wild.

[E]

Like, how is this allowed?

[A]

It's wild to me. I don't really understand it. You know, I think I know a little bit about the Mormon Church. Not really. I know a couple of things because many years ago, Mark did this incredibly funny, brilliant TV show called Alpha House where he played a Republican senator. And one of the characters, Matt Malloy's character, played a Mormon senator, and there was lots of Mormon. And Amy Sedaris played his wife, and they were the Mormon couple. And. And they were. It was. It was brilliant the way it was portrayed. But some of the terminology, I would always, you know, ask the showrunners, like, is that true? Is that really a thing? And they were like, oh, yeah, no, this is all true. Like, every. You know, like, the term soaking. We'll get into all of that. With Heather. But, like, there's, like, a lot of sexual loopholes. There's loopholes all over that people find a way.

[E]

Well, when I was talking to her, just to get this all set up, we were just like.

[C]

I was just.

[E]

Because I'm a fan, I just started asking some questions.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[E]

But she was saying how, like, the further she's been away from it, the more cult, like, she feels like it is. Which is interesting because she was very involved in this church. But I'm sure we'll. We'll get into it with her.

[A]

I feel like with any organized religion, and I say this as a practicing Catholic, and I'm very. I very happy with my religion, but I feel like any organized religion can be. What's the word I'm looking for? If you have the mindset, you can turn. Any religion. Any religion can be turned in the wrong way if it's not practiced correctly, I think. In other news, there's so much going on in this house.

[D]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Guys, if you listen to this here podcast, you have been following a lot of our journeys around here. And I've got a person who, if you're a regular listener of this podcast, you probably know. Not going to name names, because it's not my story to tell, it's her story to tell. But she is downstairs in our guest room right now as we speak, recovering from her. Dr. Rosenberg facelift. Well, I have booked her.

[E]

She's gonna come on and tell her story.

[A]

She's gonna come on and tell her story.

[E]

Tell her story.

[C]

She look.

[A]

How good does she look?

[E]

She looks amazing.

[A]

He's an artist. He's a true artist.

[D]

I thought I was walking in to have to do the fake. Oh, my God. You look amazing. But she literally looked amazing. And that's 24 hours later.

[A]

Yesterday, she arrived here fresh out of the surgery suite, and I could not believe how amazing she looked.

[D]

That's crazy.

[A]

It's also Mark and I get very excited. It's like having a new baby in the house. I don't know. Like, we woke up this. I woke up extra early this morning. And he's like, did you go down and check the baby? He's like, did you check on the baby? And I'm like, no, the baby has a nurse. Like, I don't want to be in the way. You know what I mean? Like, the baby does have a nurse. We have a baby nurse in the house, too, with the baby. But, yeah, she looks great, and she's in such great spirits. She's.

[E]

She's so happy.

[A]

She's so happy.

[D]

It's an outpost.

[A]

It's an outpost. It's a surgical recovery center. My guest bedroom. It is a surgical recovery center.

[D]

I mean, I went in, I'm like, this is.

[A]

It's beautiful, right? Yeah, it's beautiful.

[D]

Perfectly fluffed pillows holding her in the right position, an array of medical supplies, a bell. I mean, the bell to ring for. And then a nearby nurse to come in.

[A]

Nurse comes in.

[D]

I want that bell. I think even if it rings nobody.

[A]

I think Nurse Laurie was going to throw me and all of us out today because the amount of times she had to wrap and unwrap Patient X's face and head to show all of us, she was like, okay, you're really not supposed to be talking this much.

[E]

But, like, no joke, 24 hours later, she could literally go out to dinner right now, and you wouldn't think she.

[A]

Could go out to dinner right now.

[E]

It's wild.

[A]

She wouldn't eat anything? No, she wouldn't eat anything.

[C]

I think you just gave away who it is.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

Well, she's ready.

[A]

Oh, let's make it happen. Hi, Heather. You look amazing. You look incredible.

[C]

Oh, my gosh. Thank you.

[A]

Wait, so Jan tells me you're shooting. What else are you shooting?

[C]

Yeah, we're doing a documentary. Documentary with the. The same people that did the Leah Remini. Like Scientology and the aftermath. It's that team, and we're doing it. It's not Heather Gay in the Aftermath, but it's about kind of Mormonism.

[A]

Oh, my God. You are so getting banished from the celestial kingdom. Are you afraid? Are you afraid of. Of that being banished from the celestial kingdom?

[C]

I used to be, but now I hope to be banished because I do not want to be there with the people.

[A]

So I'm. I'm Catholic and Catholics, we're afraid of burning in hell. So if you're banished celestial kingdom, is that the same as burning in hell?

[C]

No. We Mormons give everybody three chances. You have celestial, terrestrial, telestral, and then outer darkness, which would be equivalent to burning in hell. But we just believe you're floating in eternal blackness with no progression and no hope or joy or no family. So pretty much burning in hell, right?

[A]

It sounds like. Sounds like Catholic light, doesn't it, Albert?

[C]

Yeah, exactly. It's like lacoonian gravity.

[A]

Yes, exactly. Yes. Floating away from Sandra Bullock.

[C]

From any woman his own age.

[A]

Any woman his own age. Right, exactly. Very funny. So both of your books, Bad Mormon and Good Time Girl, exposes a lot that goes on at lds, were there any parts of the books that you were afraid of revealing? Were you afraid of backlash? Are Mormons not allowed to. Are they not allowed to dole out backlash?

[C]

Well, we're not allowed to dole out backlash. Part of our covenants are to believe and honor and respect church leaders. And in order to go to the temple, you have to answer questions saying that you don't speak ill of them, you don't criticize them, that you are totally allegiant to the church leadership. And so, yeah, I was terrified of all of it when I first got the book offer. Like, someone sought me out and said, we think you should write this book. We think it should be called Bad Mormon. Because there had been a big spoof on me being the bad Mormon. You know, like some people did, like a little Broadway musical version of it. Like, there's just some funny memes out there. So I. I remember seeing that email and seeing the title, and I, like, slammed the laptop down. Like I said, there's no way I would ever put my face with Bad Mormon in front of it. Like, I could never write an expose about the church. I could never reveal anything because I was just so entrenched and just. Just still so loyal. But then just, you know, things happened. Fame, mostly. Fame and independent income.

[A]

Independent income. They won.

[C]

I mean, to keep it. But my dad also passed away, and that kind of opened up a different, you know, just a different.

[A]

You don't have this fear of disappointing your parents once they've passed away.

[C]

Yeah. And I just knew he loved being Mormon. It was like his pride and joy, I think. Who knows? Because Mormons wouldn't say how they really felt about it, but I just felt like I wanted to say it. The biggest part that was hard for me to write was the temple ceremony, because we make vows in the temple that will never reveal any of it or will basically disembowel and cut our throats. So you're not allowed to ever retell what we wear or what we do. And I have friends that have been in the church their whole lives, but haven't been to the temple. And their families all go to the temple weekly. Their, you know, their friends, their churchgoers, and they never. They still never knew what went on in there.

[A]

No kidding.

[C]

Yeah. It is so secret. It is the greatest, biggest kept secret in the Mormon Church. Like, until I went and physically saw everyone dressed like that. And the things we did as a lifelong member, a return or I wasn't a return missionary. I was leaving on A mission. I had no idea. It is a shell shock for every member.

[A]

Can you give me an ide idea of what people are wearing?

[C]

Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

It's.

[C]

We wear head to toe white, but then we wear a stark Kelly green.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Fig leaf apron over our loins and we veil our faces. The men wear these little paper caps that are tied to their shoulder with a string to remember that you're fettered to God. You are priesthood robes and nylons and slippers. And everyone's dressed head to toe in white except for when we put on our priesthood aprons. And then we do rituals. We do secret handshakes, we do tokens. We do secret rites of passage. And we do oral ritual and prayer, like with hand motions and in mass.

[A]

Oh, that's the oral ritual. I conjured up a whole other thought in my head.

[C]

Well, probably is less weird.

[A]

Yeah. So what do you think about. Like, there are always these comparisons because there's been so many television shows and there's been so many, like, reality shows about Mormonism and there's always like this undercurrent that it could be, in some people's eyes, cult like. Do you think it's cult like?

[C]

Yeah, I absolutely do. And it was much more so in the leaving of the church that I can now say cult like or cultish. It's still like, chokes my throat to say the church is a cult, because that was the one. It's like worse than see you next Tuesday. To call it that. You know, it's the one C word that.

[A]

And it's. But that's not all of it. Is it just like. Is it parts of it? Is there, like, are there factions of the church, or is it the church in its entirety?

[C]

I mean, my. It's the church in its. In its entirety. It's the normal soccer moms Americana, that church is. We are zealots. If you want to call us a church, then we are religious zealots.

[A]

That's what the word I was looking for, zealots. Heather just came up with the word before you logged on. I was like, what's it called when people take a religion and they take it to an extreme? And because I was saying, like, a lot of religions, whether you practice them or not, can be, if you are a zealot, turned into something bad. And a lot of religions, if they're just followed by the letter of the church, whatever church it is, is quite good. But you would say in general, LDS is more of what you're describing.

[C]

I think that the church requires a level of devotion that is equivalent to the most zealot sex of religions that you can think of, like orthodox Hasidic Jews, you know, like fundamentalist Mormons. We wear all of our devotion on the inside. You know, we look so normal and mainstream, and what we do on the surface is normal and mainstream, but what we do in secret and sacredly and the inclusivity of the church and the secrecy of the church, you know, no one would realize how absolutely allegiant we are to the church leadership, to the reputation of the church, and to just allegiance to this institution. It's. And we frame it as to God, but it's much more segmented than that.

[A]

When you bump into former church members, like people that you used to know, do they shun you? Do they come after you? Have you seen any of them?

[C]

I mean, yes. And yes, I see. I live in Salt Lake City. I run two businesses. I mean, I run a business with two locations. So we have two opportunities for. My customers are Mormons. My best friends from high school are still devout Mormons. My family is all devout Mormons.

[A]

So what do they say about you behind your back, do you think?

[C]

Horrible, horrible, horrible things.

[A]

If.

[C]

If they discuss me at all.

[A]

Right, okay, got it.

[C]

To my face, they are kind and wonderful and then. But I'm not invited over for Sunday dinner.

[A]

Right, okay, got it.

[C]

But they won't read the book, they won't watch the show. They won't acknowledge anything that's any value that I've like, garnered from being on TV or from writing the books, Whatever that has holds no currency where I live.

[A]

Like, they probably. They've all watched the show and they've all read the book.

[C]

Yeah, I bet they would not.

[A]

No, I know they would not. It's. They've kept it inside with all of the other stuff.

[C]

Like, I'm certain you're great at keeping secrets, you know?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, right. Here's the other thing that fascinates me, and this is like, when it comes to any time I. Not just Salt Lake City, but any show where there are court cases involving Mormon people, any TV where there's a Mormon family. There seems to be. And correct me if I'm wrong, there's a lot of money there. Right. Am I mistaken?

[C]

Well, I mean, I think there's the whole range within the church, you know, I think now they quote 17 million members. But my experience was the Mormons I knew were very successful, very attractive, very wealthy, very kind, you know, service oriented. But yeah, beautiful people, beautiful success, successful Wealthy people everywhere you look.

[A]

Yeah, that's the thing. It's like, it's, that's the rich religion, Jan. Okay. Yeah.

[C]

The church is worth $260 billion. Like they'd never. That's, it's, It's a huge, huge institution.

[A]

Yeah. Wow. All right, so we want to get into the terms, Jan. Yeah. Okay. Number one is. And I know this term from way before I had any Real Housewives of Salt Lake City in my life before your books came about. My husband was on a TV show long time ago. And two of the characters were Mormon and their young adult daughter and her boyfriend started soaking.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. Explain to our listeners what soaking is.

[C]

Okay. Soaking would be if the penis were a sponge and the vagina were a bowl of water. You just place it in and no motion, no movement. It's insertion with no movement, no thrusting, just soaking. Okay.

[E]

Isn't that when, when, when we were virgins and we would just say, oh, but it was just the tip.

[C]

It doesn't count. Isn't that the same thing? It's just the tip, but.

[A]

But it's the whole thing. Yeah, it's. It's the. Just the tip, but with the entire penis jam.

[E]

Okay, but then Roz. So we work with the producer Roz, who said she grew up with Mormons and she said that people would jump on the bed to then make it move. And. But you weren't doing anything bad because you weren't the one moving it.

[C]

I do not have personal experience with the jump pumping, as it's called, jump pumping.

[A]

So does that require a third person.

[C]

In the church or a quarter, you know, a coin operated bed?

[A]

Okay, got it.

[C]

I think that is a bit of an urban legend because I went to byu, I was surrounded by Mormons that, that would have. We were reporting on each other. Like if my friend was sleeping with her boyfriend and I didn't tell on her, then I risked being thrown out of school too. So I don't think jump pumping is feasible within Mormon youth. I just don't think anyone would do it for someone else.

[A]

But if you're. So if you're a girl and a boy and you're supposed to be chased until your wedding, it. Does soaking not violate that in any way?

[C]

I mean, I'm pretty sure soaking violates it in every way. But the big way that matters is if you can tell your husband that you're a virgin and we kind of go back to that archaic. Maybe your hymen's never been broken. I don't know. I mean the mental gymnastics of purity culture are difficult to don't put it all on me. No, no, no, no.

[A]

That I am not. That is that I am. I agree with you 100%. Okay, Jan is with the soft swinging. Yeah, Jan is now holding up words to me. How absurd is it when footwear barely survives a season? Nothing annoys me more than when I invest in a pair of boots that fall apart immediately. Well, some things are actually built to last. And that's what L.L. bean has been doing for over a century, making boots with a level of craftsmanship that proves not everything has to wear out. Bean boots carry that tradition forward. Handcrafted in Maine with the same care since 1912. Made with full grain leather, durable rubber bottoms and triple needle stitching. Built to last. These aren't shoes made for a single season. They're boots designed to take on years of rain, sleet, mud and snow and come out stronger. They're perfect for commutes, weekend hikes, cheering from the sidelines. And when it comes to style, Bean boots prove that timeless design always wins. They've looked the same for more than a century because real style doesn't chase trends. With every season, each pair becomes more personal, more distinctive and a reflection of the life lived in them. L.L. bean boots are simply best worn. Find your [e-mail] crafted to last, ready for the outdoors and timeless in style. I'm excited that the season is changing and Macy's Fall Fashion Guide is your one stop shop for the season's biggest trends curated by Macy's style experts. Think Weekend in the country. The new boho and statement luxury for her, that means romantic flowy dresses from Cece, sheer looks from Inc. Luxe leather by Donna Karan and Karl Lagerfeld and bold animal prints from Anne Klein, Steve Madden and much more for him. Levi's bomber jacket, vintage inspired denim statement loafers and relaxed suiting from Hugo Boss and Michael Kors. Shop now@macy's.com or in store today. There's no such thing as camera off for dogs. Let's talk about next level dog care. That means treating them with next level protection from parasites with Nexguard + afoxylonir, moxidectin and parental chewable tablets. Nexgard + Chews provide one and done monthly protection against fleas, ticks, heartworm disease, roundworms and hookworms. Plus they come in a tasty beef flavored soft chew that's designed to be easy to give use with caution in dogs with a history of seizures or Neurologic disorders. Dogs should be tested for existing heartworm infection prior to starting a preventive. So the next time you're at the vet, ask about Nexgard plus Chews. Okay, Jan. Jan is now with the soft swinging. Yeah, Jan is now holding up words. Soft swinging.

[C]

Soft swinging is. I think it is a part of our culture. Absolutely. Mostly because you have kids that have no sexual experience, get married really young, you know, and they've only ever been with one person, and then they're older, they have some success, they have some, you know, freedom of thought and agency, and they want to see what's out there, but they don't want to leave their marriages, they don't want to leave their faith, they don't want to leave the church, and they definitely don't want to be an adulterer. So they. They dabble, they dip their toes in. And I think it's a way to maintain, you know, both worlds.

[A]

And so it. When there's soft swinging involved, is it like everybody's involved? Like, is it an agreement between the husband and wife or is it usually just like a secretive thing?

[C]

What I have learned from personal. Not personal, but people is that it's an agreed upon thing. But some I have heard of some tragedies where the husband has presented that he and the her interested. He starts an affair and she's like, I never signed up for any of this soft swinging crap.

[A]

So who in the cast is still in the church? And do you have discussions about it or. It seems like it's very, like, separate, very repressed, like even.

[C]

Yeah. I learned season one not to talk about levels of Mormonism, although it's never left. But Lisa still identifies and attends, and her son Jack just got home from a mission. Brittany still goes to church and, you know, identifies and believes. Whitney has left the church that we saw on the show. She had her. She left the church and then had her name removed, which is like a voluntary way to sever all ties. Mary? No. Who else is there? Bronwyn grew up Mormon, but doesn't identify as Mormon anymore. I'm just speaking from what I colloquially think I know.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's talk Salt Lake City. How were you originally cast?

[C]

Lisa Barlow knew about me, and I had a med spa business and we really had a young kind of clientele. So she thought I would know a lot of people that might be candidates for housewives. I kind of thought I was like a facilitator, you know, Like, I didn't think I was going to ever really Be in the running.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And so it was kind of a surprise to me as we kept going through, you know, iterations of people, and then I still kept showing up on the list.

[A]

And so besides Lisa, did you know any of the other women?

[C]

Yes. Jen was a customer. I knew Whitney, obviously. She's my third cousin. I did not know Mary yet. I had met. I had. I met her briefly. I did not know Meredith, and then. So I knew Whitney, Jen, and Lisa.

[A]

When you decide to do this show, what is the conversation like with your family, your friends, your ex? What's the conversation?

[C]

Zero conversation.

[A]

You just did it.

[C]

I did not. Tell us. I could have told you how the conversation would go.

[A]

Don't do it.

[C]

Yeah. Of the world, you know, nothing good could come of it. You'll risk excommunication, you know, good standing, everything you've worked for, your salvation, your hope. So I didn't tell a single soul until it was set in stone. And then I told my bishop, and he told me not to do it. And if I did insist on doing it, to make sure, like, that if I was at any public event that I carried around a glass of milk so that no one would think that I was drinking. Meanwhile, I was already drinking.

[A]

Yeah, but. But what was in the milk? Was it Kahlua and milk?

[C]

So White Russian.

[A]

Yeah. White Russians look like milk on camera, do they not?

[C]

They absolutely do. But I. I remember flying home from, like, my final interview in Burbank, and I write about this in the book, that the only question I thought about, the only thing that kept me from doing, I wanted with all my heart to do it. I dreamt of something, an opportunity like this, of reality television. I grew up on it. I mean, it was like, I'm gonna get emotional like a dream come true. But I just thought, I can't do, like, I'll get excommunicated. Am I willing to get excommunicated by going on TV and drinking and saying, I'm sleeping with people and I'm not living as a Mormon? And I. That was the decision. It was. The church was my final decision maker. And I just said that. I really. I mean, I chose something bigger than the church for the. And it was only because it was bigger than the church that I was able to, I think, to let go and leave.

[A]

But initially, when you were walking the line, were you, like, was there a. A moment in your head where you were contemplating leaving the church before? Was there any moment?

[C]

No.

[A]

No, Never. Okay.

[C]

I was gonna fake it till I make. I Was gonna go till my dying day and drink secretly with my friends.

[A]

Right. So did you think when you joined the cast, okay, I can do this. I can have both worlds. I can really experience this level of fame and notoriety and live my life in a way that is true to who I am. And I can also maintain my standing in the church. Did you think that you would somehow.

[C]

I thought through all of that. I thought, I'll wear clothes that look like I'm wearing my sacred garments.

[A]

I'll.

[C]

I won't drink on camera. I will tell in my confessionals. I'll walk the line. I did not ever think I could live authentically, but I thought I could possibly have the best of both worlds. Worlds and be on television and have this opportunity as a housewife and still not betray the image or reputation of my church and my family. And because I knew that I could pull. And the reason that I chose to leave the church is because I knew that I could pull the wool over the church's eyes and my church leaders. Like, I could fake it with them. But I had watched enough reality television to know that you cannot fake it with. With the viewing audience. And the last thing I wanted to do was go on TV as a representation of something I didn't even believe in. I mean, I would have done it if I thought I could have managed it, but I knew that. That the audience would have seen through it, and that was something I didn't want to deal with.

[A]

Can you explain to Albert what sacred garments are and how on earth do you wear them underneath some of the getups that everyone wears on the show?

[C]

Well, none of my castmates wear their sacred garments. And I'd like to point out that very rarely all the other shows you see on Mormonism, the people are not wearing them, even though they're supposed to be. So I'm just going to call them out right now.

[A]

That is a breaking news.

[C]

Jan, you can't call yourself a Mormon wife if you're not wearing your garments, right?

[A]

How big are the garments? How, like, oppressive are the garments?

[C]

The garments are polyester or cotton or mesh, but they're basically a T shirt with boob cups and then bike shorts. So it's to cover your shoulders and your clothing to your knees, so you can't wear anything above your kneecap, and you really shouldn't show your shoulders. Now, they just recently released a new version for Hot Climate that allow you to wear a tank top. So now in Salt Lake City, there's this huge underground railroad of secret garments Coming from like Barbados to the women of Salt Lake City. And people are trafficking garments. They're getting garments from the distribution centers in hot climates, bringing them to Salt Lake City and distributing them to active members here who are now on the streets of Salt Lake City wearing their garments in a tank top version. This is something I never thought I'd see in my lifetime. Garments that showed the shoulder. But the time is now. What a great time. You know what?

[A]

I blame you. I think you've done a lot to like, move the church forward into the modern times. And as you're describing the garments, I'm listening to it and I'm like, gosh, I wear Mormon undergarments all the time.

[C]

Under everybody, everything you've ever wanted to wear elasticized bike shorts when you're already chubby and you're trying to wear skinny jeans. I mean, that was my reality. I felt like a segmented centipede. But I still wore them every day. And it's like wearing an outfit underneath your outfit. There's waistbands and they got so hard. Cumbersome. On my mission, I was a missionary in the south of France and I had to wear a dress every day. So I started buying the one pieces that don't even have a separate top and bottom. They're just, just a one piece unit with a butt flap when you need to use the bathroom.

[A]

Oh, my God. Where is my. You know what, Jan?

[E]

You want one?

[A]

I gotta get my hands on that. Yeah, I gotta get my hands on that.

[C]

It's very difficult to get your hands on garments and probably even more difficult to get your hands on one piece butt flap garments.

[A]

Right. Especially like if you're not Mormon. Right?

[C]

Yeah. You have to, you have to show a, a barcoded card at the distribution center that they. That links with church headquarters that shows that you're in good standing and able to purchase them.

[A]

Oh, my go. You don't think we could be in good standing? No, I'd be in terrible standing. But do you think, like, my family priest would be able to broker a deal with like, the bishop?

[C]

You think I would? I don't think so. I. Yeah, so there's a. You have to give 10% of your income, Kelly. Oh, you're willing to do that? We'll hook you up with some garments.

[A]

I'm already giving 10 to the Catholic Church. I mean, I'm being bled dry and forget bar mitzvah years with Judaism. I'm being bled dry by trust churches.

[C]

It's true. It's true.

[A]

Okay, so let's get into some of the girls. Tell me about. I'm just gonna ask. I'm gonna name a name and you give me like what your relationship is currently. Where you see it going, you know, if you see it going nowhere, say. You know, feel free to say pass, but I'm gonna start with. I'm gonna start with the big guns. Jen Shaw.

[C]

Pass.

[A]

Wait, no, no, no, no.

[E]

Five questions. We can't just do a full on pass.

[C]

Hey, Kelly said I could. Gave me options. Kelly does not get.

[A]

You said I couldn't get an undergarment, so all deals are off.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

So like, have you spoken to her since she went to prison?

[C]

No.

[A]

No, has anyone?

[C]

I heard Meredith had.

[A]

And did you hear like what she heard?

[C]

Did you hear she kept Meredith, you know, she kept it very. She just said it was a quick call.

[A]

Uh huh. And are you worried because she's supposed to get out in 2026, right? October.

[C]

Yeah, October 2026. I heard.

[A]

And let me tell you, if it's one thing I know about time, it flies. So are you worried about bumping into her when she gets out?

[C]

No. You know, she's. Unless she comes to beauty lab, I don't think I'll see her.

[A]

The black guy.

[E]

Can we just get into it for a minute?

[A]

Jan, go ahead.

[E]

Yeah, I just, I'm still. Did you protect her to that degree because you already knew she was in trouble? Like, what was the purpose of protecting her to that degree?

[C]

Well, I was protecting myself too, because I didn't know how I got it. And just because she said, you know, I think I gave that to you. Like it was. I didn't have proof of it or anything other. And if she had happened. You know what I mean? I woke up with it. I was afraid they had footage of something. I didn't know what they had. You have to consider, like, you wake up with cameras on you 247 and I had a black eye. It was terrifying. And I was protecting myself and protecting her because, I mean, I didn't have much to go on. Honestly. It was just that drunk.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Jen, have you ever been that drunk where you've like browned out or blacked out?

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

But I feel like I would remember if someone punched me in the eye.

[A]

Not necessarily.

[C]

I feel like I would too.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

So that's why I assumed I. It had to been, you know, a thousand other ways. But I think I would remember anything that gave me a black eye to that extreme. I thought it was some sort of infection of sorts. It was horrible.

[A]

First time I had tequila, Jen. I fell off a boardwalk. And I did not realize I fell off the boardwalk. Okay, what was so. What? So Monica. Yes. Let's go to Monica Garcia. Have you seen Monica since the reunion?

[C]

No, I have not seen her since the reunion.

[A]

Were you shocked that Whitney was still talking to her after she was exposed?

[C]

Yeah, I was. I was shocked that anyone would keep talking to her just because it was such a. It was just felt like such a deceit and such a deception, and it felt like it affected all of us equally.

[A]

Yeah. I don't understand these moles coming into shows. It seems like an epidemic now. It seems like people are now watching the show specifically. Specifically implanting themselves into the show. I feel like people need to be hooked up to lie detector tests before they can get on these shows now, because I think. I don't know. How do you feel about that?

[C]

I mean, I feel like it was, you know, the snake eating its head to, like, bring someone on that had only come on as. You know what I mean? Like, there was no world that she would have been in our world and been our friend. And how are we supposed to process friendship with someone that was never our friend to begin with? Was literally got there on making fun of us, you know, it didn't make sense to me how I was supposed to move on from that.

[A]

And she said that your hairstylist was involved. Do you believe your hairstylist was involved?

[C]

Yeah, my hairstylist admitted to me that she was involved, and that's how the whole thing came out. Like, she had a full mea culpa, full confession and apologized, revealed everything. And it was like. So we esteemed her for being that forthcoming, you know, and like. Like, that was something that Monica still refused to do.

[A]

Do you still let her do your hair?

[C]

No, I have a totally new team.

[A]

Good girl. Cause that's a bridge too far. Let's talk about Bronwyn.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

You guys had a rough start, to say the least. Do you see a path to friendship with her?

[C]

Oh, absolutely. Bronwyn and I, I think, are in a great place now and throughout the season. And, you know, we have. We have, you know, we fight about things that are remnants from the season before. But, you know, I really. I really. I don't know how to say this and keep my job, but I really love these women. I love fighting with them, but I love getting along more. And so when it's good, I want to keep it good. I am a people pleaser. I am a go along to get along girl. And so I feel bad that it started out so rough with Bronwyn, but, you know, I didn't get invited on the cast trip. You know, there were things that bugged me. There were things that I felt I had been hurt. But like, I just, I've worked through them all and now I'm ready just to be a good time girl and enjoy everybody.

[A]

Where was the cast trip this year?

[C]

It was. We had a cast trip to Greece in honor of our Angie K. Which was phenomenal. And we also went on a big trip to Kanawan, which is a little island in the British Virgin Islands. And it on below deck, we did a crossover collab with Captain Jason and his whole below deck crew, and it was a luxury yacht and it was amazing.

[A]

Jan.

[E]

Okay, I have a question because in so many of these reality shows, like, the marriages don't survive. Like, do you really think that her marriage is gonna survive from this? Like, Todd doesn't seem like he's cut out for this.

[C]

I just am a girl's girl and I don't, I don't even can't believe I just said that. The truth is, like, if the marriage doesn't work, run for the hills, Bronwyn. Like, your, your life is going and great and you know husbands that can't support women in this role. I think it's very telling and I just think Bronwyn is strong in her own sense, whether she's married to Todd or not. And I think she'll be fine no matter what happens. I don't know. I don't have a. I never thought I'd get divorced, so I would never predict for any of them.

[A]

What about Mary Cosby? How is she doing? Doing? Being diagnosed with leukemia, lymphoma, myeloma, or one of over 100 other types of blood cancer makes people want more time to do the things they love. That means more time to be grandparents, movie buffs, artists, athletes, musicians, you name it. The Leukemia and Lymphoma Society is now Blood Cancer United, the world's leading organization focused solely on blood cancer research, support and advocacy. First founded in 1949, they are the largest non profit funder of blood cancer research and have helped pioneer treatments for adults and children alike, as well as advancing policies to help enable access to care for all. Blood Cancer United does the most for people with blood cancer, so people with blood cancer can do more of whatever they want. It's an understatement for me to say how important I think it is to provide research, patient support and advocacy for blood cancers of all kinds, as blood cancer is the one type of cancer that can affect anyone of any age, from infants and toddlers to elders and everyone in between. Learn more and [e-mail] I'm excited that the season is changing and Macy's Fall Fashion Guide is your one stop shop for the season's biggest trends curated by Macy's style experts. Think Weekend in the country, the new boho and statement luxury. For her that means romantic flowy dresses from Cece, sheer looks from Inc. Luxe leather by Donna Kar and Karl Lagerfeld and bold animal prints from Anne Klein, Steve Madden and much more for him. Levi's bomber jackets, vintage inspired denim statement loafers and relaxed suiting from Hugo Boss and Michael Kors shop now@macy's.com or in store today. There's no such thing as camera off for dogs. Let's talk about next level dog care. That means treating them with next level protection from parasites with nexguard Plus a Foxaloner, Moxidectin and parental chewable tablets. Nexcard plus Chews provide one and done monthly protection against fleas, ticks, heartworm disease, roundworms and hookworms. Plus they come in a tasty beef flavored soft chew that's designed to be easy to give use with caution in dogs with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. Dogs should be tested for existing heartworm infection prior to starting a preventive. So the next time you're at the vest, ask about NexCard plus choose. What about Mary Cosby? How is she doing?

[C]

Mary is phenomenal. She's a new Mary Cosby. We saw a little bit of it last season. You see even more of it this season.

[A]

How's her son? I was like so concerned and upset for her and I just like, I feel like I went through a roller coaster of emotions when I with, with this woman.

[C]

I did too, Kelly. And as a mom of teenagers, you know, it's just that precarious, precarious time and I just felt for him and I felt for Mary and she says he's doing great and I hope and pray he continues to.

[E]

So her church is separate from the Mormon church like hers is. It's a total.

[C]

What is that? Yeah, it's a totally different thing.

[A]

So what like religion is that that.

[C]

She'S Pentecostal and she's the minister and we get to see a little bit of Mary in her element again this year. This season we go and Visit Mary's church.

[E]

What does that mean?

[A]

Pentecostal? I don't know that that's Pentecostal real, like.

[C]

I mean, it is spirited, I would say spirited.

[A]

It can heal you. Sometimes they speak tongues, sometimes they use snakes.

[C]

Like they believe in the gift of tongues, the gift of healing, the gift of prophecies.

[E]

And do you find that to be cult like at all?

[C]

I mean, I'm a sucker for religion of any sorts. And like, I think, I don't really feel like it's cultish. I feel like what makes a cult occult is sometimes elaborate costumes and secret ritual. Not to point my finger at the Mormons, but I don't see, I don't see that from any faction of the Pentecostal Church at all. It's pretty transparent. Mormons also believe in the gift of tongues. It's one of our articles of faith. And so we have just. It was just in the last, I think maybe 20 years or maybe 30 years that we went from speaking some weird form of Aramaic in the temple, like where we said made up, not made up words, but like, like speaking in tongues, rituals and chants. I, it was a little bit before my time, but it was of my parents generation. So. I mean, you're talking to a girl that even though it looks like we come from mainstream, we come from. Yeah, we believe the weird stuff.

[A]

Yeah, no, I. Listen, I can't talk. I can't, I can't talk. You know, I mean, we, Albert and I talk about it all the time because all religion has something in it that is practically unbelievable unless you're a believer. You know what I mean?

[C]

Mean. Yeah. And that's what I would cling to in my youth. Like, well, it's Virgin Mary's a crazy story and we all believe that, you know, so I. Why can't I believe golden plates and Joseph Smith?

[A]

We saw that Jared Osmond slid into Mary's DMs.

[C]

Yes, truth.

[A]

What do you, what do you think about that?

[C]

I mean, Kelly, you're going to be hard pressed to get me to say anything but pure adoration about anyone with the last name Osmond. I grew up.

[A]

No, I understand. You're too young. But I religiously, pardon the pun, watched the Donny and Marie show. Like that was my jam. I had, I didn't have. My cousin had the Donny and Marie dolls when they were figure skaters and it was amazing. And I talked about it on the show and if you go into the basement, Albert, in the drawer in the bedroom down there, in the top drawer, an audience member of mine sent me the Donnie and Marie dolls in their matching figure skater costumes. Yes, it is down there, because it's like, I will never take them out of the box. It means too much to me. And so I understand your reverence for any and all Osmonds, but I'm just curious.

[C]

I feel it in my soul. And Donnie and Marie, when I was a missionary, we were in the mtc. We weren't allowed to have secular music. Music or anything. I mean, we were studying. I was studying French for nine weeks, 12 hours a day. And Donnie and Marie, on Christmas Eve, came to the missionary training center in Provo and performed Christmas carols and danced. And, like, that was, like, the biggest moment of my life until I met Andy Cohen.

[A]

From Donnie and Marie to Anzi Cohen.

[C]

So I'm just absolutely enamored. And I, of course, see all of the things about Jared and White, and they're all well deserved. You know, he knows what he's out there doing, but I still just, you know, the legacy dies hard with me. But do you, like. Are you.

[E]

How are you and Mary getting along? Because I feel like she seems to throw shade at you sometimes.

[C]

I love Mary. I think. I'm not a threat to Mary. I enjoy Mary. She does throw shade, and I can take it. I don't know how to explain it. I just. I don't take it personally that as much anymore because, I don't know, I guess we have a friendship, you know, where it's. There's a little bit of grace.

[A]

Well, Mary said that on Watch what happened live, that you and Meredith kiss Lisa Barlow's ass. So let me ask you, what do you think about Lisa Barlow?

[C]

I think that self preservation is often misconstrued as kissing someone's ass. I believe. Believe it's smart, emotional intelligence to learn who you can push and who you can't and what. You know, I don't. I have. I have some growing pains with Lisa this season, but I really, really have a camaraderie with her, and I enjoy her, and I like being around her sometimes and most of the time. But, like, we. We go through it, you know, what.

[A]

Is something that we like the View viewers don't. That you don't think the cameras capture about Lisa Barlow. Like, what are we missing? What don't we get about her?

[C]

I mean, what people might not believe is that she's exactly the same off camera as she is on. Like, there is no Persona. And if it is a Persona, it runs so deep that I've never seen anything otherwise. And I think that that might be surprising to people because you think, how can it be? But it is.

[A]

Jan's chin is on the desk.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

I can't believe that's who she is.

[C]

It's a hundred percent who she is. I was just at an event with her. We're at the Lost cultureistas Cultures Awards, and we sat together the whole time. And she just. I mean, like, she just is consistently herself. You know, she just doesn't filter. She. If she doesn't know who a star is, she says, who is that? You know, she just doesn't like. She just kind of is all always lb Lisa Barlow. You can count on her to be consistent. And I like consistency. I just like. It makes me feel comfortable. Even if I'm mistreated. I just want to know what I'm gonna get.

[A]

I happen to agree with you there. Like, as long as somebody has a consistent personality, be it good, be it bad, be it happy, be it rotten. I feel the way you do that I would rather have somebody who is miserable in. In my presence, but consistently miserable than somebody that is all over the emotional spectrum all the time. That I don't like not knowing what I'm going to get.

[C]

I agree. I agree. And that's why it gets harder for me to do these interviews specifically about the other housewives, because, you know, you're.

[A]

Afraid I'm going to incite a war of some kind.

[C]

I have this, like, deep understanding and camaraderie with all of them, whether or not there's tension or. And I. And I know that that's not good for television, but that is how I feel. Like I. We've been together now. You have to consider. We have been together for six years. We just finished season six.

[A]

So crazy.

[C]

And our. My whole life was transformed with these women. And without them, I would not be living the life I'm living without them. I would not. And they are all I have. I no longer can kiki with my Mormons friends. They don't know 90% of my life, and they don't want to know about it. And there are not a lot of women business owners that are, you know, have these same experiences that we have. We are all each other's got in Salt Lake City. And I think that makes us a unique friend group and possibly a unique franchise in reality tv.

[E]

My favorite moment was the flipping of the table, right?

[A]

Classic New Jersey. Jersey. Hasbro said Jersey.

[E]

I feel like it was replaced by the hot mic moment. What do you think what's your favorite?

[C]

Bravo. Yes.

[E]

That was insane.

[F]

Totally insane. And they have recovered from that and are now friends and sick as thieves, those two. So just goes to show that the strength of female relationships.

[A]

But that is crazy. I mean, isn't it interesting how sometimes, sometimes you can see, like, especially in the prism of reality tv, like something to us, the audience that may seem like a very small, insignificant thing blows up and friendships are ended and blown up and, and there are. There's like many, many like, like fatwas. Like, it's just like, it's crazy what happens.

[F]

Fatwa is the fatwa is the perfect word because it launched season one when I sent Lisa a thumbs up response to her text. And that's why we were at war for two or two plus years over a thumbs up text.

[A]

Exactly. Okay, so exactly my point. So it's like something small, but something epic and monstrous and big and enormous and earth shattering and then people move along and get right over it. It's always fascinating to me. So let's. I want to talk about your dating life because. Because I got to tell you, you have never looked better. You are absolutely stunning. So there's got to be guys lining up.

[F]

There's no guys. There's no guys. But I really, I thank you for saying that. First of all, it's like a little bit of a jump scare and nice to hear, but I have not dated at all, really, since my divorce. I've been divorced 10 years, but it's because I've been the trenches of motherhood and I. I had 100% custody of my kids, and I had three daughters and they were very young and I had to raise them up to get them off to college. But I am now an empty nester. As of August 20th, I will be an empty nester. I shouldn't say date.

[A]

You're gonna love it.

[F]

Soon to be an empty nester. And I am going to absolutely shift my focus to that maybe being the nest of my life, because I really thought that having a great love just wasn't going to be part of my story, you know? Like, I. I had pretty much an arranged marriage and it ended tragically. And I've never really had a great love, but I met this lady at a dinner party and she was 75, and she said she'd been at the love of her life for 15 years. And I thought there's a chance for me, like, there is still an opportunity maybe that I'll meet someone. And I'm totally, for the first time in my life I think open to that. And I. I have to say, I think it's because I was so entrenched in what a mom does that I couldn't find any space to bring a guy into my home or to date. And to be under that scrutiny, I had to just kind of compartmentalize, I think, to survive. But now that the girls are leaving, I'm really going to change my focus and I'm excited about it.

[A]

I gotta tell you, I admire that. I really do. I admire that you sacrificed. And I think, like, like, you know, especially you're raising little girls in your house. You don't necessarily want to invite some stranger into the house. It's. I think you prioritize your children and. And now they are succeeding. They're achieving all of their goals and you put the work in. And. And on the flip side, you are a stone cold fox. And you're an empty nester stone cold fox. So you can literally. You're gonna have. Guys, we're gonna have to. Jan and I are gonna have to form a perimeter at the house. We're gonna have to form a perimeter. We're gonna have to, like, have torches, maybe a couple of shotguns. Soaking line is on the soaking line. We're gonna have a soaking line and a soft swinging line.

[F]

Whoever wants to.

[A]

Open for soaking. Oh, my God, Heather, thank you so much. It's really a pleasure to talk to you. Appreciate you doing the podcast, Kelly.

[F]

When I heard about this opportunity, I jumped out of my chair. I am such an admirer of yours. I mean, I. Dan was saying that you guys have worked together for 25 years, and I was like, I watched you guys work together for 25 years. I've been watching you for 25 years and you have been a fixture in my life. And like, just. Just such a. I don't know how to explain it. You're just who I became a woman with. So, like, I just really love this chance to be on your podcast. And I can't believe I'm talking to you is really what it is.

[A]

Like, we feel the same way about you. We've only known you six years, but they've been six of the best years of our lives. Make sure, listeners to watch the premiere of Real Housewives of Salt Lake City September 16th. Don't forget to pick up Bad Mormon and good time girl Heather Gay, everybody. Thanks so much for joining us. Talk to you soon.

[F]

Thanks so much, guys. Talk soon.

[A]

Well, that's it, everybody. Okay, let me try it one more time.

[C]

Go for it.

[A]

That's it. Can't wait to talk off camera with you all next week. Bye Bye. Let's Talk Off Camera with Kelly Ripa is a production of Malo Jo Productions from Malojo. Our team is Kelly Ripa, Marc Consuelos, Albert Bianchini, Jan Chalet, Seth Bronquist, Roz Therian, Devin Schneider, Michael Halperin, Julia Desch and Team Radio Andy Lisa Mantineo, Scott Marlo, Jake Getz.

[D]

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[C]

Well, that's how Geico gets 97 customer satisfaction.

[D]

Yeah, I'll let you get back to your food.

[C]

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