Letters from an American: Episode Summary – Chatting with Liza Donnelly
Release Date: July 25, 2025
In this engaging episode of Letters from an American, host Heather Cox Richardson sits down with renowned writer and cartoonist Liza Donnelly. The conversation delves into the rich history of women cartoonists at The New Yorker, the challenges they faced, and Donnelly's new documentary, Women Laughing. The episode provides a deep dive into gender dynamics within the world of political cartooning and celebrates the resurgence of female voices in the field.
Introduction to Liza Donnelly and Her Work
Heather Cox Richardson opens the discussion by expressing her admiration for Liza Donnelly, highlighting Donnelly's prolific contributions to Seeing Things, a Substack publication. Richardson remarks on Donnelly's ability to use humor to navigate serious subjects, which has been a source of comfort during challenging times.
"She has this incredibly light touch with very serious subjects that I find is really helping me get through these days." [00:00]
Early Women Cartoonists at The New Yorker
The conversation shifts to the historical context of women cartoonists at The New Yorker. Donnelly provides an insightful overview of the magazine's beginnings in 1925, noting that while women were represented, they were significantly underrepresented compared to their male counterparts.
"In 1925 when they started, they were started as a humor magazine. And there were women drawing illustration in that time in New York and some women doing comics..." [01:54]
Donnelly highlights key figures like Helen Hokanson and Barbara Sherman, emphasizing their subtle yet impactful feminist undertones in their work.
"Barbara Sherman was an early feminist cartoonist. Many of the cartoons back then done by women were not overtly feminist. They were indirectly feminist." [04:19]
Challenges Faced by Women Cartoonists in the Mid-20th Century
Richardson and Donnelly delve into the decline of women cartoonists during the 1950s. Donnelly attributes this downturn to cultural shifts towards conservatism, which marginalized women's voices in humor.
"The culture was getting more conservative and you didn't want to hear from women humorous. They were too risky." [04:19]
They discuss the impact of editorial changes, particularly after the death of The New Yorker's founder Harold Ross in 1951, and how subsequent cartoon editors favored male cartoonists, further sidelining women in the magazine.
"Cartoon editor William Shaw... his sensibility was less sensitive to the women's point of view." [12:10]
Resurgence of Women Cartoonists in the 1970s
The dialogue transitions to the 1970s, a pivotal decade for women in cartooning. Donnelly recounts her personal journey into the field, inspired by the second wave of feminism and the evolving editorial landscape at The New Yorker.
"Lee Lorenz... was looking for new ways to express humor. So he found Ross Chast, and then he brought me in..." [12:10]
The entry of women like Donnelly and Roz Chast marked the beginning of a gradual increase in female cartoonists, achieving gender parity by 2017.
"As of 2017... it's now equal at The New Yorker." [03:41]
Liza Donnelly’s Creative Process and Inspirations
Richardson inquires about Donnelly’s approach to creating cartoons amidst today’s tumultuous political climate. Donnelly explains her method of blending light-hearted visuals with poignant political commentary, aiming to reflect how politics impacts everyday lives without resorting to overt caricatures.
"I wanted to get at politics from the side door and with my light line of drawing, I wanted to talk about politics as it affects people." [18:32]
The conversation touches on the balance between addressing serious issues and maintaining an uplifting tone, showcasing Donnelly’s skill in navigating this duality.
"I mix it up with cartoons that are not political." [23:06]
Collaborative Projects and Future Endeavors
Richardson and Donnelly discuss their collaborative projects, including the upcoming documentary Women Laughing. Donnelly emphasizes the importance of documenting and celebrating women's contributions to humor and political discourse.
"The documentary is coming out this year, Heather, but we still need help with post production." [28:11]
Donnelly shares details about their Kickstarter campaign aimed at funding the documentary, highlighting rewards such as exclusive videos and prints.
"They are going to the video of Heather and I doing that event in Maine last year..." [30:32]
Building Community and Inspiring Change
The episode concludes with a heartfelt discussion on the role of artists in societal change. Both Richardson and Donnelly underscore the significance of community-building and fostering hope through creative expression.
"We have to have a vision for what comes next... it always requires our artists." [31:12]
Donnelly praises Richardson's efforts in building a supportive community through her daily writings, reinforcing the idea that collective action and creative endeavors are crucial for progress.
"You can do what you know how to do at home. And that's helping change things." [31:12]
Notable Quotes
-
"I don't like to say that The New Yorker pushed women out. I don't think that's really quite true." – Liza Donnelly [11:30]
-
"Cartoon editor William Shaw... had his gang of guys." – Liza Donnelly [11:50]
-
"All I want to do is get a Democrat elected." – Heather Cox Richardson [14:10]
Conclusion
This episode of Letters from an American offers a comprehensive exploration of the evolution of women cartoonists at The New Yorker. Through Liza Donnelly’s experiences and historical insights, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the gender dynamics in political cartooning. The discussion not only honors the trailblazing women of the past but also celebrates the ongoing contributions of female artists in shaping political dialogue through humor.
For those interested in supporting the documentary Women Laughing, Donnelly provides information on their Kickstarter campaign towards the episode's end, inviting listeners to contribute to this important cultural project.
Resources Mentioned:
- Documentary: Women Laughing by Liza Donnelly
- Book: Very Funny: New Yorker's Women's Cartoonists by Liza Donnelly
- Substack Publication: Seeing Things by Liza Donnelly
- Kickstarter: Search for "Women Laughing" on Kickstarter.com
Connect with Liza Donnelly:
- Substack: Seeing Things
- Social Media: Liza Donnelly on Twitter
This summary is intended for informational purposes and to provide an overview of the podcast episode for those who have not listened to it. For more detailed insights and direct engagement, listening to the full episode is recommended.