Why do we size up a rude stranger in seconds and decide they don't belong in our "tribe"? Dr. Benjamin Granger has a term for it: the evolutionary hangover — his phrase for the cognitive biases our brains evolved for savanna survival and never quite retired. As Chief Workplace Psychologist at Qualtrics, Granger spends his days distilling billions of data points on how employees and customers really feel, and in this episode he brings that same lens to his new USA Today bestseller, A Leader Worth Following. The conversation moves from the biological to the deeply practical. Granger traces human speech back only 100,000–200,000 years — a blink in evolutionary time — to explain why we still assume our texts and emails land exactly as intended, and why they so often don't. He and host Peter Winick dig into a favorite (and least favorite) example: the customer satisfaction survey. Whether it's a car dealership coaching you to "circle the five" or a flight attendant joking about the inevitable post-flight survey, Granger shows how well-established science like goal-setting theory gets bent out of shape the moment it collides with real incentive structures. There's also a candid look at what it takes to write a book while holding down a demanding day job — from years of scattered iPhone notes to a publisher's cold outreach that landed within days of deciding to write one. Granger and Winick talk through the tension every corporate thought leader faces: how do you promote your ideas without it feeling like self-promotion? Granger's answer — "I'm selling the message, not myself" — anchors a broader discussion of why academic rigor and real-world readability don't have to be at odds. The episode closes on a personal note: Granger's hope that more leaders will get comfortable with hard conversations with themselves, and a few concrete ways to start — from a two-minute daily reflection borrowed from Marshall Goldsmith to a monthly sit-down with your future self. If you've ever wondered why your best-intentioned message got read the wrong way, or why your company's survey scores don't tell the real story, this one's for you. Three Key Takeaways: • Our brains are running outdated software. Granger's "evolutionary hangover" concept explains why we instantly judge people as "abrasive" or "rude" — a tribal survival instinct that made sense on the savanna but creates friction in modern offices and customer interactions. • Good science can get gamed by bad incentives. Goal-setting is one of the most well-established practices in organizational psychology, but Granger shows how tying compensation to survey scores (like a car dealership's NPS rating) corrupts the very measurement it's supposed to improve. • Selling ideas isn't the same as selling yourself. Granger reframes self-promotion as message-promotion — a mental shift that let him push through years of book marketing discomfort because he believes the underlying research deserves to reach people. Ben isn't the only one turning years of hard-won research into a book built to scale. Bill Sherman, Peter Winick, and Naren Aryal have just released The Thought Leadership Handbook: How the Experts Elevate Their Big Ideas—and How You Can Too — a field guide drawn from more than 700 conversations on this very podcast, mapping out the frameworks and five "thought leadership avatars" that separate an idea stuck in your head from one that actually reaches an audience. If Ben's path from scattered iPhone notes to a USA Today bestseller has you thinking about your own expertise, this is the next book on your list. Get it at thoughtleadershiphandbook.com, or find it on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Bookshop, Apple Books, or Amplify.