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Angel Trinidad (3:52)

SIPC Evergreen trees are Pacific Northwest icons in journalism. An evergreen story isn't tied to one news cycle. It goes deep and helps you understand the world. The Evergreen is also a podcast from OPB about the Northwest. I'm Jen Chavez. Listen to the Evergreen podcast from OPB every Monday. Part of the NPR so to do lists. They're a tool we use to get stuff done right? And I mean, how good does it feel when you finally cross off that task that's been hanging over your head? But warning to do lists can also become a trap. They can feed our impulse to stay productive at all times. The thing is, we don't want to make a better to do list just so we can indiscriminately accomplish more.

Oliver Berkman (4:38)

It's about doing what matters.

Angel Trinidad (4:40)

That's Angel Trinidad, the CEO and founder of Passion Planner, a company that makes digital and paper planners that show people how to break down their goals into day to day actions. You can access a free version of the Planner on their website. So takeaway number one in making a better to do list. As angel was saying, decide what matters to you in this moment. Because wouldn't it be great to fill our to do lists with intention so the stuff on them is actually helping us get somewhere? One way to do this is to come up with a big picture goal, something that's especially important to you right now. Something that would make a big impact in your life. Angel calls It a game changer.

Oliver Berkman (5:17)

What is that one thing that would make everything easier, better, and that answer is different for everyone.

Angel Trinidad (5:24)

To come up with that goal, ask yourself some questions.

Oliver Berkman (5:27)

What do I want to be? What do I want to experience? And what do I want to have?

Angel Trinidad (5:30)

Maybe you want to be more present in your physical body. If so, your goal could be to run a 5K. Or maybe you want to give back to your community. So your goal is to volunteer once a week. Or you want to become a doctor. So your goal Take the MCAT now. Sometimes you don't choose the goal. Life hands it to you.

Oliver Berkman (5:49)

Like sometimes your parent is sick or sometimes your dog is sick, or maybe you need to find a job or else you're not going to eat.

Angel Trinidad (5:58)

And that might be your reality for now. Whatever it is, once you have a goal, you'll break it down into actionable steps and deadlines to put on your to do list and we'll get to that. First though, I want to acknowledge this goal making approach might feel kind of top down, like maybe you don't have a big picture goal in mind yet, and that's okay. Oliver Berkman is a journalist and author. He wrote the book 4000 Time Management for Mortals. That's how many weeks are in the average human life, by the way. And he says another option is to let your current to do list guide you.

James Hollis (6:31)

There are various exercises out there. Like you might know the one that involves asking why five times in succession.

Angel Trinidad (6:37)

For instance, my to do list says retile kitchen floor. Oliver says I could work backwards from there.

James Hollis (6:43)

So like I want to retile my floor. Why? To make that room look better.

Angel Trinidad (6:49)

Why?

James Hollis (6:49)

And you know, eventually you hopefully get to something that feels like a bedrock value of your life. And if you don't, maybe that's a sign that it's a kind of a zombie project that could be easily abandoned.

Angel Trinidad (6:59)

Another tip from Oliver, look at the stuff that's filling your to do list at the moment and ask do these.

James Hollis (7:04)

Choices enlarge me or diminish me?

Angel Trinidad (7:08)

He says this question comes from the psychotherapist James Hollis, and he finds it really clarifying and more useful than asking something like, is this making me happy?

James Hollis (7:17)

You know, lots of life is not so happy, but can be really meaningful and plenty of pleasures are kind of shallow and pointless and you don't want to fill up your life with them.

Angel Trinidad (7:26)

But does this enlarge me? Well, let's use work as an example. Maybe your job right now is hard, but is it the kind of hard that's helping you grow as a person and develop skills. Or is it the pointless kind of hard? If it's the latter, maybe it's time to add Update resume and pick three jobs to apply to to your to do list. Once you have a sense of your priorities and your goals, it's time for takeaway.

Marielle Seguera (7:49)

2.

Angel Trinidad (7:50)

Pick a system, A way of making a to do list that works for you One question to get you started. Paper or digital? Angel says some people like paper to do lists because they're concrete and tactile.

Oliver Berkman (8:04)

And what I also love about to do lists on paper is when you cross it off, there's nothing like it.

Angel Trinidad (8:09)

Also, paper comes to an end when.

Oliver Berkman (8:11)

You put it digitally. There's no end. You can keep going. And I think that's when to do lists get really overwhelming. It's kind of like a cluttered room. When it's too much, then you just avoid it completely.

Angel Trinidad (8:21)

Digital has its pluses though. If you make a to do list on your phone, it's searchable and quite possibly more organized. If you do choose digital, there are lots of websites and apps you can try. Some are built into your phone, some you can download. Folks on the Life Kit team have used the free versions of Todoist, Notion, Asana, and Trello. Another question to ask yourself how do you want to structure your to do list? Some people prefer a kind of calendar approach with the hours of the day listed.

Oliver Berkman (8:50)

I like to time block on my agenda and it's literally making a square of time for the task.

Angel Trinidad (8:57)

So you know, Thursday from 2pm to 6pm I'll be working on my novel. Wednesday from 7 to 8pm I'll be at soccer practice. Friday from 5 to 5:30 I'll be cleaning my apartment. This method is called time boxing and it can be a good way to understand how much you can realistically tackle in a day. Since you're visually blocking off time for each of your to dos.

Oliver Berkman (9:20)

That kind of awareness gets you thinking, Am I spending my time in a way that makes sense for me and what my intention is for my life?

Angel Trinidad (9:28)

But again, this is about finding a system that works for you. For Oliver, trying to plan this way feels too rigid.

James Hollis (9:34)

I've never really found it works to make a very rigorous association between a task and the time of day. Because my moods, my responsibilities as a parent, random emergencies that arise. You just can't sort of say I'm absolutely going to be doing this thing between 3 and 3:40. You have to with appointments and things, but if you try and do it with everything very quickly. It feels imprisoning. It feels like life isn't any fun anymore, even if you're working on things that matter.

Angel Trinidad (10:00)

So another option is a straight up list of tasks. Call me old fashioned, but that's what I'm sticking with. Remember, by the way, whatever you pick, it's just a starting point.

James Hollis (10:10)

An important thing here is to feel like your systems for organizing your life can evolve constantly.

Angel Trinidad (10:17)

Now, once you have a system in mind, takeaway three. It's time to fill your list. Let's start with an acknowledgment. There are some things you just have to get done. The tasks of daily living. Refill that prescription. Buy groceries. Get more toilet paper. Those tasks can go on your to do list, but they don't necessarily have to.

Oliver Berkman (10:37)

There's this thing within the productivity world called the two minute rule, and it's if it takes less than two minutes, just do it right then and there. You know, it's not worth spending the bandwidth to write it down. Hopefully remember it. Hopefully do it.

Angel Trinidad (10:49)

You could also consider automating some of these things so they never make the to do list at all. Like maybe you have toilet paper delivered to your house once a month. You're going to need it. Okay, so we're meeting our daily needs now. We want to reflect our bigger goals on our to do list. Like maybe one of mine is to redecorate my apartment. The thing is, and this is what trips a lot of people up, that's not a to do list item.

James Hollis (11:13)

So often things hang around on our to do lists and we don't get them done because we're not even expressing them in a doable form.

Angel Trinidad (11:22)

Let's break this down. Which parts of the apartment do I want to redecorate? Well, definitely the kitchen. I want to replace the tile floor. Still not actionable enough. We're going to have to go even smaller. Call the hardware store for an estimate. Now that's doable. Go look at tile. That's doable. Order the tile. Also doable. These are the kind of things to put on your list or in your planner. Oliver says you also might consider limiting your to do list to four or five doable tasks at a time.

James Hollis (11:52)

And you're not going to add a new one to that list until you've moved one away, thereby freeing up a.

Angel Trinidad (11:57)

Slot that can help you stay focused because you can't do everything at once. And that's takeaway. 4. Pick something to let go. In his book, Oliver talks about the Art of creative neglect. He borrowed that phrasing from graphic novelist and creativity coach Jessica Abel.

James Hollis (12:14)

You're going to be not excelling on a whole load of dimensions. If you're going to be like a really good parent and a really good employee, then you're probably not going to be able to be a really good, I don't know, runner of triathlons or something. There's a million examples.

Angel Trinidad (12:32)

We really can't do it all, at least not simultaneously. So as you're making your to do list with your big picture goals in mind, pick something to fail at too.

James Hollis (12:41)

To say, well, okay, instead of constantly being dismayed when I realize that I'm not superhuman, I'm going to make a decision about a few things in advance that for this season of my life, I'm just not going to be doing so. Like, you know what? I'm not going to be keeping a tidy, beautiful house while dealing with a newborn baby and working full time. You know?

Angel Trinidad (13:03)

And he says when you choose what to fail at ahead of time, you're really changing your mindset. Because months from now, when you see your messy house, maybe it won't actually feel like you're failing. Instead, you could see it as a reminder of your values in this moment and what you've committed to. Okay, time for a recap takeaway. 1. Figure out what matters to you. What are your priorities at this moment? Do you have a big goal or project in mind? Pick a to do list system, paper or digital, Hour by hour, or a simple list of tasks the system can change. This is just a starting point takeaway. 3. Fill your list with the tasks of daily living, but also with steps toward your big picture goals. Pick something to fail at. You don't have to do everything all at once, and you definitely don't have to do it all well. Also, remember that to do lists exist to serve us. We don't answer to them. So if your to do list is making you feel bad about yourself or your life, crumple it up, throw it out, and start over again when you're ready.

James Hollis (14:11)

I think that a lot of us seem to go through life feeling like we're in sort of productivity debt. You know, we've got to work really hard today to try to pay off the debt by the end of the day.

Angel Trinidad (14:23)

But remember, Oliver says there's nothing you need to do to earn your right to exist. Before we go, an editorial note, we want to let you know that Angel Trinidad, the founder and CEO of Passion Plan and Life Kit, reporter, producer Andy Tagle have been friends since college, but we asked angel to share their experience with us not because of this personal relationship, but because four other Life Kit staffers independently discovered Passion Planner and found.

Marielle Seguera (14:53)

It to be a really useful tool.

Angel Trinidad (14:55)

To help them manage their time.

Marielle Seguera (14:58)

For more Life Kit, check out our other episodes. We've got one on how to stop procrastinating and another about how to improve your focus. You can find those@npr.org LifeKit and if you love Life Kit and want even more, subscribe to our newsletter@npr.org lifekitnewsletter. Also, have you signed up for Life Kit plus yet? Becoming a subscriber to Life Kit means you're supporting the work we do here at npr. Subscribers also get to listen to the show without any sponsor breaks. To find out more, head to plus.NPR.org and to everyone who's already subscribed, thank you. This episode of Life Kit was produced by Audrey Wynn. It was edited by Sylvie Douglas. Our visuals editor is Beck Harlan and our visual producer is Kaz Fantoni. Our digital editors are Malika Gharib and Danielle Nett. Meghan Cain is the supervising editor and Beth Donovan is our executive producer. Our production team also includes Andy Tagle, Claire Marie Schneider, Margaret Serino and Thomas Liu. Engineering support comes from Kwesi Lee, Andy Huether, and Josephine Nianai. I'm Marielle Seguera. Thanks for listening.

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