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- [00:00]
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- [00:16]
Mariel Segarra
You'Re listening to Life Kit from NPR. Hey, it's Marielle. To all the college freshmen out there, I want to say happy first days of school. You probably had lots of daydreams about this moment. The football games, the roommate who'd become your best friend, the hotties you'd meet in Econ 101, or maybe in your dorm. And the freedom, right? Finally, you're on your own, making your own choices. I hope it's like that for y'. All. I really do. But to be honest, it wasn't for me. At least not right away. I cried buckets. Rivers even when my parents dropped me off at school despite thinking I was so ready to be away from them. Those first few weeks, I wandered around campus, aimlessly, circled the weekends on my calendar that I'd get to go home, and sat on a bench outside my freshman dorm, having distraught phone conversations with my high school friends about how homesick I was. The folks in my dorm who I would later become friends with, thank God, started calling it the sad Bench. I tell you this because I want you to know that if you're feeling any of these things, you are so, so not alone. Also, while college does offer a lot of fun and a lot of freedom because you're technically an adult now and maybe living on your own for the first time, it also comes with the realization that you're technically an adult now and you're on your own for the first time. If you weren't doing this already, you'll likely have to do your own laundry and make sure you eat and get yourself to class and start paying for stuff. You are now financially responsible for yourself. That's. That includes whatever debt you've just taken.
- [01:59]
Yaneli Espinal
On, there's a lack of support for 18 year olds who are now legal adults and can sign on the dotted line for debt with little to no support in helping you understand the ramifications of what you're doing.
- [02:09]
Mariel Segarra
This is Yaneli Espinal, author of the book Mind you'd Money and host of the Marketplace podcast. Financially inclined. When we did the interview, Yanelli was wearing a Brown University T shirt, which led us to realize that we had several things in common. Yanelli, did you go to Brown?
- [02:24]
Yaneli Espinal
I did.
- [02:25]
Mariel Segarra
So did I. Oh, really?
- [02:26]
Yaneli Espinal
Amazing.
- [02:27]
Mariel Segarra
Yeah.
- [02:28]
Yaneli Espinal
Yeah. I was class of 2011.
- [02:29]
Mariel Segarra
Wait, I was class of 2010. So you and I were probably having like in some ways a very similar college experience because I was a first generation college student and I think you were as well.
- [02:42]
Yaneli Espinal
Yes, I was.
- [02:44]
Mariel Segarra
Being first generation college students meant that our parents hadn't taken on student loans and they weren't personally familiar with the college system and the choices we'd have to make on meal plans and housing until we and our siblings went to school. Now, whether you're first generation or not, this is likely the first time you'll be taking on debt, opening up a credit card, having conversations with friends and roommates about shared costs, and maybe realizing that you don't have enough money to go out the way your friends do.
- [03:12]
Yaneli Espinal
We need to be talking about this. We need to be openly discussing this because the more you feel shame or the more you kind of shy away from these conversations, the more you're going to think that you're supposed to be operating in a silo all by yourself, managing these financial troubles, when in reality there's probably a bunch of other students in your exact same dorm building struggling with the exact same thing. But y' all are not in community about it. So everybody's just kind of managing on their own.
- [03:35]
Mariel Segarra
On this episode of Life Kit, I talk to Yanelli about how college students, especially in their first year, can budget and manage their money. We'll talk about student loans, scholarships, part time jobs, credit cards and more. That's after the break.
- [03:56]
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- [05:00]
Mariel Segarra
Back at Apple.
- [05:01]
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- [05:27]
Mariel Segarra
First year college student and I'm learning to manage money for the first time. What mindset should I start with?
- [05:34]
Yaneli Espinal
I mean, I think the mindset is one of like a little bit of grace because you're not going to be able to do as many of the things that you are going to want to do. You're not going to be able to, you know, help everyone that you want to help, including yourself. Especially if you're a student who comes from a low income family or first generation like me. There were times where I wanted to send money back home to help my mom and dad and like, I really just couldn't. Like you're not going to be able to do all the things, but at the same time it's a fine balance with being a little bit kind to yourself and also like taking responsibility that this is one of the top, most important aspects of your life in general. But especially during this time when probably not a lot of income's coming in. So you're going to need some rules and some systems, otherwise it's going to be chaos.
- [06:20]
Mariel Segarra
Yeah. What are some of the first things you would tell a first year college student to do? Financially?
- [06:28]
Yaneli Espinal
Most students are not going to be able to pay for college out of pocket and so they're probably going to have to deal with some type of student loans. Really? I think the key is that you have to understand there is a healthy amount of debt that is manageable and then there is this red zone which is like the unhealthy amount of debt. I was very fortunate to not have a ton of student loan debt, but I knew a lot of my friends were really struggling. And what I wish I had known then was that you should not take on more student loan debt than one times your expected annual salary when you come out of college. So let's say the average salary in your desired career field is $50,000. Or well then you want to divide that by four so that you know roughly okay, 12,500 is what I should expect to borrow at maximum for my first year. If I'm borrowing more than that, I'm already on the path to taking on an unhealthy amount of debt for my college experience.
- [07:21]
Mariel Segarra
Is this a decision that you have to make before you choose a school. It feels like it. Right? Because the tuition is going to be a big part of that cost.
- [07:32]
Yaneli Espinal
Yes, 100%. And that's what makes this such a hard conversation to have. Because like, I've worked with high school students that they have a dream school in their mind and they're like, I'm going to my dream school. Like, that's if I get in, I'm going there. There's no if, ands or buts. Like I've been dreaming about that school since I was 3 years old and nobody's gonna take that from me. Our culture in this country, in the US where we push, push, push and pressure, pressure, pressure teens to go to college and go to elite schools and go to their dream schools. And oftentimes, you know, for ex, if you are a young black student, you might have an HBCU in mind. That's your dream hbcu. Or if your parents went to a certain school, you might want to be legacy, you might want to go to that same school and follow in your parents footsteps. There's all these different reasons why we become so attached to a college or university before we even step foot on their campus and before we even submit our application to see if we're getting admitted. And that really clouds your judgment because it taints the entire decision making process with a bunch of emotions and psychological layers between you and the ability to rationally make a decision based on the data. But yes, you need to make these decisions. You need to write down this budget and have these numbers outlined by your sophomore, junior year of high school so that you have in mind what those numbers are. You're also looking at probably the top thing should be can I manage financially there while I'm there and also in the long run when I'm out of that school.
- [08:54]
Mariel Segarra
Okay, so takeaway one is to have a plan for the debt you take on for college. Here's a rule of thumb that Yaneli suggests. When you graduate, your debt should not add up to more than your expected annual salary. One way you can estimate that is by looking at the Occupational Outlook Handbook published by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. It tracks the median pay for different jobs by year. Of course, your annual salary will vary depending on what field you choose. When I graduated, I did several unpaid internships for almost a year. Do not recommend. And then I started full time as a writer at a magazine making $45,000 a year. So according to this rule, my debt needed to be lower than $45,000. Luckily it was I got a lot of financial aid. Ideally, Yanneli says you'll do this debt calculation before you choose a school, once you know how much it's going to cost you every year. But don't worry if you didn't. We still have lots of tips for you. If you're trying to do this calculation to see if you're taking on too much debt, are you just considering tuition and room and board and the meal plan, or are you also factoring in any other expenses that might come up during the school year?
- [10:05]
Yaneli Espinal
I would say all in. Ideally all in. Because if you don't have the money to pay for like food off campus and like, you know, clothes when you want to go to a party or whatever, you know, birthday treats, jewelry, birthday dinners, etc. Like all the things of normal life while you're in school, you're going to end up borrowing that money, right? So what I would do is I would look at the total amount of debt that you have to take on any for whatever reason.
- [10:29]
Mariel Segarra
So we've talked about doing these sorts of calculations when you're a sophomore or a junior in high school, when you're applying to colleges, and definitely before you make the decision. But let's talk to students who are in their first year. They've already made a choice where they've taken on a lot of debt and they're way outspending according to this rubric. What advice do you have for them.
- [10:54]
Yaneli Espinal
If you're not working and you don't have a job? That is the number one thing you need to do. You need to either think about working part time or on campus work, study, figure out what are some ways that you can start generating a paycheck. Generating income allows you to actually have money, to start putting a little dent in it by making payments and doesn't have to be massive payments, right? One of the tips I always give young college students is to log into your student loan portal, take a look at the debt that you have, and look at the interest that is accruing on your loans each month. Your statement, your account details will show. So say you borrowed $10,000 your first semester freshman year. You'll see that at the end of the first month, your loan is now $10,027. For example, that $27, that's interest fees that accrued in that first month of your loan. Because you started with 10,000 and it went up by 27 bucks. So those interest fees of $27 could be a goal of yours. Hey, this month I need to come up with $27 so that I can make a payment just to the interest fees. And if I keep paying just the interest fees every month, then when I graduate, the loan amount that I will owe is going to be exactly the amount of loans that I borrowed. So I think while you're in college, this is the time to get a lay of the land. Look at your numbers, write it down, pull up a spreadsheet, what's my loan amount, what's the interest that's accruing every month, and then look at what other types of debt you have. If you have a student credit card and you haven't really been strategic using that credit card, now's this time to start reining it in. Okay. I'm only going to use the credit card when I absolutely have to and when I know that I have a plan to pay it back within a few weeks or a few months so that I don't carry that debt too long accruing those double digit interest rates and fees.
- [12:35]
Mariel Segarra
What advice do you have for students who are looking for a job while they're in school? Like what kinds of jobs do you think work well and how can they plan their work around their schoolwork? Because you're also in school for a reason.
- [12:50]
Yaneli Espinal
Yep, that is a fact. So that's why the first and easiest way to look for a job is proximity to where you're studying. If you stayed at home and you didn't choose to go off to college, you want to try to find a job as close to home as possible so that you don't have to have a super long commute to and from work that interrupts time or takes away time from your ability to like attend class and do work. I found jobs right on campus. So I worked for buds, which is Brown University Dining Services. I was the person who was serving sandwiches when you went to get a sandwich at the sandwich shop. I was the person who was handing you a scone when you went to the Blue Room, the coffee shop on campus. I was doing a lot of like those kind of quick jobs that I could clock in a couple hours between classes during the day. It wouldn't really affect my schedule too much because it's like if I had a class at 10:30 in the morning and then my next class was until 1:30pm Then I immediately knew I could take a two hour shift from 11:30 to 1:30. So for me it was the ability to quickly be able to get to and from work. So close proximity to where you're studying. And then also the ability for you to use your scheduling blocks kind of like puzzle pieces. You need to be able to work the schedule around your core responsibility, your most important task, which is to go to class and do well academically. Oftentimes, I think there might be a little bit of a stigma with others. Seeing that I have to work. I definitely did feel a little bit embarrassed at first. Like the first few weeks of school when like the people that I made friends with would show up to get food and they'd be like, oh, you work here? And I'm like, yeah, like, but whatever. I took pride in it. I became the supervisor. Like, working is never something to be ashamed of. Generating income for yourself is never something to be ashamed of. And you know, if there's any type of stigma in your friend group, that should be a red flag to you that these friends are maybe not the best type of friends.
- [14:35]
Mariel Segarra
All right, takeaway two. If you're in college and your debt is likely to add up to more than you can manage, remember that rule of thumb we talked about? You have options. First of all, get a job. Ideally one with flexibility, probably something on campus or even remote so you can plan around your schoolwork. If you can swing it, start making payments towards your debt while you're in school. You could focus on paying the interest every month. Paying as you go can save you a lot of money in the long run. So let's say you are a first year college student like we talked about and you're trying to cut down on your debt and on your expenses. Is it too late to look for scholarships if you're already in school?
- [15:15]
Yaneli Espinal
Great question. No, it is not. This is probably one of the biggest misconceptions ever when it comes to paying for college. People tend to think that, oh well, I didn't apply for scholarships when I was in high school and now I'm already in college. Too late, too bad, so sad. And that is not true. So do not be afraid to take, you know, 10, 20 minutes a week to just look for college student scholarships. Scholarships that are directly for freshmen or college scholarships for sophomores. The more specific you can be when you're researching, the better. So for example, I was studying visual art and history of art and architecture. So I would look for scholarships and grants for college students. Latina college students studying art, history of art and architecture in Rhode island in junior year. Can you tell them everything about yourself that could lead to like an SEO connection to some link that goes, oh wow, this is a specific niche Scholarship that exactly fits all of the criteria that I happen to identify with that will allow me to get, you know, 500 or $1,000. These don't have to be massive scholarships. You literally will do 10 to 15 minutes of work to submit an application that could pay off because 500 bucks, 1,000 bucks, that's going to be a huge weight lifted off your shoulder if you can use that money to pay down a credit card that you just increase the balance on to buy a textbook or to buy a laptop. These small amounts add up and can make a big difference. So no, it's never too late. You can continue to get scholarships and grants and you should continue to get scholarships and grants while you're in college. It just means that you're going to have to dedicate a weekly routine of time, 10, 20, 15 minutes to quickly researching what are some college scholarships available to current students.
- [16:56]
Mariel Segarra
Takeaway 3 if you're already in school, it is not too late to apply for scholarships. Spend 15 or 20 minutes a week researching what's available and be specific. There might be a scholarship for someone from your background, in your exact situation or with your talents. We'll have more tips from Yaneli like how to manage a credit card and actually talk about money with your friends after the break.
- [17:25]
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- [17:44]
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Podcast comes from Dignity Memorial. For many families, remembering loved ones means honoring the details that made them unique. Dignity Memorial is dedicated to professionalism and compassion in every detail of a life celebration. Find a provider near you@dignitymemorial.com okay, so.
- [18:03]
Mariel Segarra
Let'S say you're a first time college student and you're getting a credit card for the first time. What's some advice you have for folks? What should they know about credit cards?
- [18:12]
Yaneli Espinal
You know, credit cards can be a really incredible tool if it's used properly. So that's the big if. And they can also be very damaging when used poorly. So it's not like the credit card itself doesn't have any kind of inherent like it's good or it's bad. It's the usage of that card and who's using that card is you. So it's all on you to use it correctly in a way that is going to help you financially in the long run. And I Think the tricky thing is that people think of credit cards as like especially college students, you think of a credit card as something that's like a short term thing, like, oh, I need it like immediately to buy these textbooks that I can't afford or to buy this laptop that I can't pay for. Otherwise we don't realize that this credit card and this purchase has implications for 10 years to come. Right? So I would definitely say you just have to learn like what are the things that help me with this credit card and what are the things that I should avoid because they hurt me? The reason why when I graduated college I didn't have horrible credit, even though I had $20,000 of credit card debt, is because I never missed a minimum payment. So that is probably the single most important thing to know is you. You can't make a late payment. If the payment due date is coming up and you don't have the money, call them. Pick up the phone. I know it's weird, but pick up the phone and call the phone number on the back of your credit card and say, I'm a college student. I've been using this card for a little while. It's been very helpful to manage expenses that I can't afford while here, but my payment due date is coming up and I don't have the money. Can you help me? Can you either lower the amount I have to pay or can you change the due date a little later so I can maybe pick up an extra shift and come up with the money in a few weeks? They are there to work with you, but if you don't call them and tell them, they're going to think that you're trying to not pay them and also not let them know. That's when it takes, you know, a really bad hit to your credit score. So make sure you only use amounts of money that you have a really clear written plan for how you're going to pay it back and when you're going to pay it back.
- [20:13]
Mariel Segarra
Takeaway 4. You may be opening a credit card for the first time this year. Exciting. Intimidating. We get it. Some things to remember Shop around. Credit cards come with different terms and interest rates and reward systems and you'll want to know what those terms are and make sure you're getting the best ones available to you. Some other things to Credit card interest rates are generally much higher than the ones on your student loans. We're talking 20% often higher compared to the single digit interest rates you'll pay on your student debt. So the Interest is going to accrue fast. Try not to put things on your credit card that you can't pay off by the due date. And if you can avoid doing that, make sure you at least have a payment plan in mind. Also, you might be able to get a credit card with an intro offer of 0% interest for a year. If you make your minimum payments again, you want to shop around.
- [21:05]
Yaneli Espinal
So a quick example. My freshman year I went and I got a laptop at the Apple Store. I did not have the money to pay for it, so I signed up right then and there for a credit card that would allow me to put the laptop on the credit card and make a small payment every month until the credit card was paid off and the laptop was paid in full. Now that was really nice because it was a 0% intro like offer for students to be able to get a laptop without having to pay a bunch of interest on the credit card. So I was like, okay, So I have 12 months to pay back this, this $800. So I did the math. I divided that 1800 by 12 months. That divided that by two to see every two weeks, how much would I have to pay so that I would be able to pay the whole thing in that 12 month period of time? And then those numbers were realistic for me because I had multiple jobs. If that number was not realistic for me, if I knew that I wasn't going to be able to swing it, then I wouldn't have put that laptop on the credit card.
- [21:58]
Mariel Segarra
By the way, as a student, you have access to lots of discounts. Make sure you look for those whenever you're spending money. You'd be surprised what you can get a discount on. Software programs, streaming subscriptions, food. The list is long. And if you don't see a discount, ask, do y' all have a student discount? Hey, it can't hurt, right? Well, a couple more financial conversations that will come up for a first year college student. It's often the first time you're splitting costs with other people. If you share a house, for instance, this was true for me my senior year. One of us would go grocery shopping and then be like, okay, y', all, here's what you owe me. And then maybe your roommate doesn't pay you, they forget to pay you, or they just don't do it. Or they, they're like, actually, I don't really use the rice, you know, so I don't want to pay for the rice. And you're like, you eat the rice. Like I see you eat the rice you know, it's these awkward conversations, especially when somebody else owes you money. What advice do you have for students about all of that?
- [23:03]
Yaneli Espinal
Yeah, I mean, the best thing I could say is you have to agree beforehand. You have to discuss beforehand what the terms of that agreement or arrangement are going to be, and all get on the same page. And then if you hit a point where something comes up that was not in the agreement or was not in that discussion, it can be added on. Could literally just pull up a web search and just be like, what is a really good roommate agreement for college roommates? And start with a template there. But, like, you have to discuss the basic things like cleaning and food and splitting costs for things. Like, how are those things going to be addressed? Because if you don't discuss them, it's only going to lead to problems later, and you're not going to know how to solution those problems because you never discussed it, and now you're in the thick of the problem. Frustrations are high, and everybody has different opinion, and there's no kind of guidance to turn to, to look to, to look for a solution. So I would definitely say you have to talk about that before everybody's like. Or, you know, even, let's say early when you move in and you're a week or two in, it's still the honeymoon phase of being roommates. Everything's still fun. That's the time to go. All right, y', all, I know it's not fun. I know it's not sexy, but we kind of got to come up with some, like, roommate agreement of some type, because we're all going to be up in here this semester, and I want to make sure everybody's good and we minimize conflict.
- [24:13]
Mariel Segarra
All right, Takeaway five is to learn to have conversations about money. It is hard, and we who've been adults for a long time still struggle with this. But getting clarity with the people in your life and communicating clearly with them when will save you a lot of trouble in the long run. Also, when you open up and talk about your financial limitations, you will find your people, the ones who are in the same boat as you and want to learn about money together.
- [24:37]
Yaneli Espinal
When you talk about it and you, like, open up about it more, you can actually build community around, hey, like, let's do a savings challenge. Let's do a no spend September. Let's do, you know, like, all these kind of creative ways to, like, work in community to try to be more mindful of the fact that, like, we're all kind of broke. College students, at the end of the day, I think that is much more helpful and useful than us kind of shying away from the topic entirely for some students.
- [25:01]
Mariel Segarra
You're also going to be fortunate enough to have parents who can help you somewhat financially. And I wonder how we can have those conversations with our parents about what they can do and what they're willing to pay for and what they're not.
- [25:16]
Yaneli Espinal
It doesn't have to be a debate or a conflict or a negative kind of a tense conversation. It's literally just like curiosity and exploration. It's like, hey, mom, hey dad. Like, no stress, no pressure. But we didn't really talk about this and school's a few weeks away. Like, I just wanted to know, are you able to help me financially while I'm on campus, like, throughout the semester or like, throughout the years? And if yes, like, just kind of give me a ballpark of like, how much or how often. And if no, like, that is totally fine. I'm not trying to make you feel bad about it. I'll just. It'll just help me make a plan, like, because I'll. Then when I get to campus, I'll know that I should get a job part time pretty much right away, and it'll help me know, like, how to use my time on campus better. So I just wanted to open up the conversation and, like, learn from y'. All. I'm not. I don't want to put pressure on you. It doesn't have to be something negative. Right?
- [26:03]
Mariel Segarra
Yanneli, thank you so much for this.
- [26:05]
Yaneli Espinal
Of course, Happy to help.
- [26:08]
Mariel Segarra
That was Yaneli Espinal, author of the book Mind you'd Money. Time for a recap. Takeaway 1. Have a plan for the debt you take on for college. Ideally, your debt should not be more than your expected income salary. The best time to do this calculation is before you choose a school. But if you didn't, there are other ways to keep your debt under control. Takeaway two is to get a job. One with flexibility. That's probably something on campus or maybe remote so you can plan around your schoolwork. Consider making payments towards your debt while you're in school. You could focus on paying the interest every month. Takeaway three, Apply for scholarships. Even if you're already in college. Spend 15 or 20 minutes a week researching what's available and be specific about your background, your interests and your talents. Takeaway four, you may be opening a credit card for the first time. Shop around for the best offers. Always make your minimum payments and remember that credit card interest rates are generally much higher than the ones on your student loans and takeaway. 5. Learn to have conversations about money with roommates, friends, teammates, parents and romantic partners. It's hard, but it's important, and this is a skill that'll serve you the rest of your life. If you love Life Kit and want even more, follow us on Instagram prlifekit. There you'll find videos demonstrating some of our favorite tips like how much sunscreen you should wear and delightful comics on everything from bathing to compliments to cardio. You can find those by following NPR Life Kit this episode of Life Kit was produced by Claire Marie Schneider. Our Visuals editor is Beck Harlan and our Digital editor is Malika Greeb. Meghan Keane is our senior Supervising Editor and Beth Donovan is our Executive producer. Our production team also includes Andy Tagle, Margaret Serino and Sylvie Douglas. Engineering support comes from David Greenberg. I'm Mariel Segarra. Thanks for listening.
- [28:18]
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