Dear Life Kit: I have the same holiday drama with my family every year

Summary

Podcast Summary: Life Kit – "Dear Life Kit: I have the same holiday drama with my family every year"
Release Date: December 16, 2025
Host: Marielle Segarra (with reporter Andy Tagle)
Guests: Bob Bordon (senior fellow at Harvard Law School, author of Conflict Resilience), Sahaj Korkoli (therapist, founder of Brown Girl Therapy)

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Overview

This candid, advice-driven episode tackles the emotional and logistical minefields of family holiday drama—those recurring conflicts and frustrating patterns that can leave even the most joyful season charged with stress. Host Marielle Segarra, guest interviewer Andy Tagle, and their two expert guests address real listener questions about holiday tensions, boundary-setting, and familial expectations—offering conversational, empathetic guidance to help listeners resolve, or at least better navigate, the repeat conflicts that inevitably arise each year.

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Main Themes & Key Insights

• Holiday expectations vs. reality: Why family patterns so often repeat, and how a more realistic approach can help.
• Communication instead of confrontation: Moving from proclamations and insistence to collaborative, honest conversations.
• Managing disappointment and boundaries: When family members don’t meet your hopes (whether it’s absent grandparents, unyielding relatives, or unhygienic habits), the experts stress clarity, directness, and self-care.
• "Don't rock the boat" fallacy: Challenging the pressure to keep peace at all costs, and why raising healthy conflict can improve relationships.

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Key Discussion Points

1. The Inevitable Family Patterns (00:14–02:11)

• Recognizing Recurring Holiday Drama:
  • Marielle sets the scene with a personal story about the "remote hog" at Christmas:

    “Somehow, though, realizing that this is going to happen every Christmas takes some of the sting out of it.” (00:52, Marielle Segarra)

• Expert Insight:
  • Sahaj emphasizes the power of lowered expectations:

    “We can minimize [holiday stress] by being more realistic about what to expect.” (01:01, Sahaj Korkoli)

2. Listener Question #1: Family "Travel Math" and Scheduling Fights (04:26–08:53)

The Situation

A listener’s brother always insists on celebrating on a day convenient for him (not the actual holiday), leading to annual friction.

Guest Takeaways

• Shift from Declarations to Conversations:

  • Bob spots the pattern of non-conversational language ("declared," "insisted"):

    “Nothing here is a conversation and it sounds like there’s no listening...how could we shift this from back and forth proclamations to something that actually feels like a conversation?” (05:19, Bob Bordon)

• Identify Underlying Family Dynamics:

  • Sahaj highlights birth order, entitlement, and gender as possible factors:

    “Is this just one piece of a bigger issue that always happens? Because what’s really happening...is it’s not really just about this instance. It’s about the fact that one person’s experience is being centered.” (05:56, Sahaj Korkoli)

• Start Early, Specify Needs:

  • Both urge initiating calm, pre-holiday conversations and clarifying what’s most important to each person.
  • Sample language for pushback:

    “Take a step back and say... there’s a side of me that actually wants to just fight back with you. And there’s a side of me that feels like it’s easier maybe to just cave in. And then there’s a side of me that’s kind of curious. What’s motivating this?” (07:38, Bob Bordon)

  • Sahaj recommends reflecting emotion:

    “Sometimes we can diffuse some of that entitlement, anger...by highlighting and reflecting back that meaning and emotion.” (08:15, Sahaj Korkoli)

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3. Listener Question #2: Disengaged Grandparents & Remote Relationships (08:53–13:49)

The Situation

A mom is frustrated by her in-laws’ lack of effort to connect with their grandchildren (declining visits, missing video calls), and feels unsure how or whether to push her husband to address it.

Guest Takeaways

• Define Specific Hopes:
  • Sahaj:

    “Make the implicit explicit...there needs to be an explicit definition of what this person wants from these grandparents.” (09:46, Sahaj Korkoli)

• Partner Conversation First:
  • Bob stresses the importance of addressing any reluctance within your own partnership:

    “The husband is clearly deciding to hold the tension in the relationship with his spouse over raising it with his parents. And a real sharing of, like, how does that make each of you feel?” (10:39, Bob Bordon)

• Direct but Gentle Communication:
  • Suggestion: Send a low-stakes text after a missed call (“My daughter really missed seeing you. When’s the next time we can do that?”).
  • Sahaj:

    “It is the partner’s responsibility to be that buffer and to be the main communicator.” (11:34, Sahaj Korkoli)

• Prepare for Disappointment and Grieving:
  • Bob:

    “I’d rather have a hard conversation where I learn something that feels really sad than keep on getting my hopes up and then having my kids always be disappointed.” (12:12, Bob Bordon)

  • Sahaj:

    “Having those hard conversations, accepting what is being said to you in case there is misalignment—that requires the process of grieving.” (12:55, Sahaj Korkoli)

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4. Listener Question #3: Parents’ Bad Hygiene Habits (15:08–19:23)

The Situation

A listener is exasperated that her mother refuses to wash her hands after using the bathroom, despite repeated pleas.

Guest Takeaways

• Reactance and Autonomy:
  • Sahaj explains the psychological resistance (“reactance”) to being told what to do:

    “Someone doesn’t want to feel controlled or...have a lack of autonomy.” (15:50, Sahaj Korkoli)

• Focus on Your Own Boundaries:
  • Both suggest letting go of the power struggle; instead, manage your own exposure (serving utensils, shared spaces) rather than trying to “win” this battle:

    “Stop seeing this as a power struggle and now see it as, what are you gonna do to...maintain your own hygiene...knowing that this is what she does?” (15:50, Sahaj Korkoli)

• Find Who Influences:
  • Bob:

    “Is there someone to whom mom often defers? Maybe it is her doctor...But is there a way to say she doesn’t defer to me on this, but she always will defer to somebody else...?” (17:43, Bob Bordon)

• Personal, “I” Statements:
  • Make it about your feelings, not her behavior:

    “Instead of you’re doing this or you’re grossing me out...put it back on you as something that like you’re struggling with instead of it like you have to change.” (19:07, Sahaj Korkoli)

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5. Listener Question #4: The Allergen Dilemma ("Don’t Rock the Boat") (19:23–23:28)

The Situation

A listener’s sister-in-law plans to bring her cat to the family gathering, despite his severe cat allergies. His wife advises him "not to rock the boat."

Guest Takeaways

• “Don’t Rock the Boat” Is a Trap:
  • Bob:

    “I really believe that raising conflict in a healthy way is totally legitimate, actually makes relationships stronger and better. And if we think this is rocking the boat, it’s a real misframing.” (20:20, Bob Bordon)

  • Sahaj (drawing on cultural context):

    “People feel like saying anything about what you need...equals conflict, rupture, disappointment...which goes right against the people pleasing perfectionism.” (20:55, Sahaj Korkoli)

• Assertive, Collaborative Problem-Solving:
  • Bob teaches “both/and” language to validate everyone’s needs:

    “Let’s brainstorm what needs you have around the cat and also the limitations we have around this allergy...that’s the shared problem we have to work on.” (21:22, Bob Bordon)

• Honoring Self-Agency:
  • Sahaj:

    “We’re crossing our own boundaries before we even set them and allow someone else to respect them.” (22:50, Sahaj Korkoli)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Family Holiday Drama:

  “There’s something about this time of year...we’re like, oh, it’s going to be fine. Everything’s going to be great this year. It’s like we wiped out our memory from last year.” (01:18, Sahaj Korkoli)

• On Boundary Setting:

  “Believe in your own agency. We can’t foundationally change our families. We can’t change every single thing we want about the holidays. But we do have agency and a capacity to have our own boundaries, but also to influence others.” (23:48, Bob Bordon)

• On Small Changes:

  “Sometimes it’s just about choosing one thing.” (24:10, Sahaj Korkoli)

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Key Advice & Takeaways

• Expect some stress, but you can minimize it through realistic expectations and early, honest conversations.
• Move family decision-making from unilateral declarations and old roles towards co-creation and understanding everyone’s real needs.
• When family disappoints, get clear on what you want, express it specifically, and accept that boundaries are healthy—including when others’ capacity or desire is limited.
• Don’t avoid necessary conflict out of fear. Gentle, assertive communication can often resolve what simmering resentment only entrenches.
• Protect your own well-being—set boundaries, use “I” language, and remember you do have choices, even if you’ve long been conditioned to believe otherwise.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:14–02:11: Setting the scene - recurring family holiday conflicts
• 04:26–08:53: Family scheduling and “travel math” (Question #1)
• 08:53–13:49: Long-distance, disengaged grandparents (Question #2)
• 15:08–19:23: Parental hygiene standoffs (Question #3)
• 19:23–23:28: Cat allergies and “don’t rock the boat” myths (Question #4)
• 23:48–24:24: Closing wisdom: agency, boundaries, and making a difference

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Closing Thoughts

This episode is a sanity-saving, permission-giving listen for anyone bracing for another round of family friction during the holidays. With humor, empathy, and practical tools—from reframing what “rocking the boat” really means, to sample scripts and emotional validation—Life Kit offers both comfort and a challenge: you can’t change your family, but you really do have more agency than you think.

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Guests:

• Bob Bordon: “Believe in your own agency.” (23:48)
• Sahaj Korkoli: “As individuals, we have more power than we think.” (24:10)

Host:

• Marielle Segarra (Life Kit, NPR)
• Andy Tagle (Life Kit reporter)

Transcript

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[Mariel Segarra]

You're listening to LifeKit from NPR. Hey, it's Marielle. I have a family member who will not be named, who is a remote hog. When we're gathered together as a fam, they want to watch what they want to watch. Doesn't matter what anybody else wants to watch. It's always been like this. And every year on Christmas, they want to watch A Christmas Story. And then, unfailingly, some other films that I'm either tired of or not interested in. I love them. I do. And I know this is not the most serious of problems, but it drives me up a wall. Somehow, though, realizing that this is going to happen every Christmas takes some of the sting out of it.

[Sahaj Korkoli]

I don't know if there's a way to avoid stress during the holiday season, but I do think we can minimize it by being more realistic about what to expect.

[Mariel Segarra]

Sahaj Korkoli is a therapist, writer, and founder of Brown Girl Therapy. A lot of her work centers around the experience of immigrants and their children.

[Sahaj Korkoli]

There's something about this time of year where, like, we think about our family and we're like, oh, it's going to be fine. Everything's going to be great this year. It's like we wiped out our memory from last year. And I'm like, wait, why do we think that if it, if it happened in the last five years, why do you think it's gonna be different all of a sudden?

[Bob Bordon]

I agree. No stress, unlikely. But are there ways to manage, minimize, and maybe have a slightly different and more edifying experience, or at least less frustrating experience? There is.

[Mariel Segarra]

That's Bob Bordon, senior fellow at Harvard Law School and author of Conflict Resilience. Negotiating Disagreement Without Giving up or Giving In. He and Sahaj both say, for starters, a little less stewing in your head. A little more saying what you need out loud can go a long way.

[Bob Bordon]

I think more conversation around aligning of expectations and hopes and making sure you do those things that are sources of joy and fun are really important.

[Mariel Segarra]

On this episode of Dear Life Kit, the advice series from Life Kit reporter Andy Tagle. Sahaj and Bob are here to help you thrive in this season of festive family gatherings. They'll talk about siblings who don't yield, absentee grandparents, alarming hygiene habits, and the myth of not rocking the boat.

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[Andy Tagle]

Okay, question one let's dig in. Dear Life Kit, Every holiday season there's some drama with my brother. He spends Thanksgiving Day with his in laws and has declared the Friday after Thanksgiving as the day for our family to gather. He expects that we all just wait till Friday to celebrate rather than get together on the actual holiday. My mom and I have told him that this doesn't work for us, but my brother insists on this every year and we're all tired of fighting about it. What should we do now? We're taping this after Thanksgiving, but we can apply this to Christmas to any holiday that you celebrate New Year's. Signed I'm ho ho ho over it. Okay, so we're starting off with a you know what I consider a classic holiday stress question, which is family travel Math. Whose house for Turkey are we traveling here in December? Here for Christmas Eve? If you celebrate New Year's, there are so many demands on your time. Everybody wants dibs what do you got for us? Anyone feel strongly.

[Bob Bordon]

Can I just say, just listening to that question made my blood pressure go up. There's a lot of things that stuck with me, but in particular the use of the word declared. And then my mom and I told you, and then he insisted those words stick with me because nothing here is a conversation and it sounds like there's no listening. So I think where I want to start is just from how could we shift this from back and forth proclamations to something that actually feels like a conversation?

[Sahaj Korkoli]

Yeah, I, I think Bob is right that there's no sense of co creation happening in something that is supposed to be joyous. And I think about how birth order or gender or family roles might be at play here. You know, does your brother feel entitled because he's older or because he always gets his way? Is there resentment because you've always as the sister had to work around him historically, is this just one piece of a bigger issue that always happens. Because what's really happening, as Bob is saying, is it's not really just about this instance. It's about the fact that one person's experience is being centered and that's what's causing the conflict here.

[Andy Tagle]

How do we even begin to undo this? If you're in the room with this family, where do we start?

[Sahaj Korkoli]

Yeah, I mean, as a therapist, I would start with what is everyone's like stake and interest in this? Like, what is the most important piece of this for you? Is it that it's Thursday? Is it that this person is available? Is it that you travel to this place? Because then that's how we make these choices. And how can we find something that incorporates shared responsibility and also allows for different choices and a different way to co create something that honors all of that?

[Bob Bordon]

I think the other thing that I would just say on this is this is a conversation that has to start before the moment that someone declares. Right. It has to be a. There has to be like a conversational reset here.

[Sahaj Korkoli]

Yeah, I agree with that. What can we do to make this feel a little easier next year right now?

[Andy Tagle]

Hmm, that's really good advice. Talk about it early. Talk about it in a not charged situation. My final question for both of you was, did you have any template language on pushing back on unreasonable family members or people who are just completely unyielding?

[Bob Bordon]

You know, one thing that I might say is to really take a step back and say something like this. You know, there's a side of me that actually wants to just fight back with you. And there's a side of me that feels like it's easier maybe to just cave in. And then there's a side of me that's kind of curious. What's motivating this or wants to ask you to say more and just to say, you know, there's another side of you because you actually wrote this note to Dear Life Kit, voice that side as well.

[Sahaj Korkoli]

Yeah, I love that. I would just also say sometimes we can diffuse some of that, like entitlement, anger, tension. Not always, but sometimes when we're feeling like someone's charged with what they want or what they expect or what they need, we can sometimes just highlight and reflect back that meaning and that emotion rather than like what they're actually saying. So like, hey, I can tell this is really important to you, like, let's talk about this now. Rather than like, oh my God, why are you deciding for all of us? Why are you making the decision? We can just say, okay, obviously this is important. This is why he's coming at me like this. Let me reflect that, you know, and then we can move into the curiosity.

[Andy Tagle]

So our dear Ho ho Hovrit, we wish you well. Okay, moving on. Question 2. Dear Life Kit, I'm struggling with wanting more from my in laws. My husband's parents live in Indiana and we live in California. We have two school age kids and I'd like them to have a stronger connection with their grandparents. But my husband's parents decline our invitations to come visit. They did fly out when my kids were born, but haven't been back in six years. We visit them about three times a year. My in laws say they are happy with the frequency of our visits and they say that plane travel is too exhausting at their age. I've also tried to encourage a stronger relationship via video chat, but they routinely miss our bi weekly scheduled calls. We all feel disappointed, but my husband is resistant to push his parents to engage more. How can we navigate this remote relationship?

[Sahaj Korkoli]

I mean, I just, I really feel for this person and I think the first thing I always tell people is to make the implicit explicit. In this case, I think that might just be between partners, not necessarily with the grandparents yet. But I do think that there needs to be an explicit definition of what this person wants from these grandparents. Is it literally just to visit or is it babysitting? Is it how many hours to spend with a kid?

[Andy Tagle]

Right.

[Sahaj Korkoli]

Like get very specific because then we can start to get in the weeds about what they're expecting their in laws to do with their kids and the role they're going to have and what they're going to provide to the kids so we can start to fill in those gaps maybe elsewhere, since we know that the grandparents aren't making more of an effort for various reasons, whether because they can't energy wise or maybe they don't want to. I don't know.

[Andy Tagle]

I like that. So defining it rather than just like this nebulous sadness. Let's talk about the specifics.

[Sahaj Korkoli]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bob Bordon]

I'm very struck by your response, which I really strongly resonate with because my sense also is absolutely starting with the husband to try to understand more the source of his reluctance because the husband is clearly deciding to hold the tension in the relationship with his spouse over raising it with his parents. And a real sharing of, like, how does that make each of you feel?

[Andy Tagle]

That was my question too. That added layer of complication, like when you have certain feelings towards your in laws. You know, how I would navigate that conversation, conversation with my own parents is really different than how I would navigate it with my spouse's parents, if I would navigate it at all. So my question to both of you was like, what role does the wife have here? Does she have just as much say in this relationship, you know, if the husband isn't interested in having it? You know, it's such a tricky gray area.

[Sahaj Korkoli]

Yeah, it is. It depends on the relationship this letter writer has with her in laws. Does she have, does she feel comfortable enough to do that? And there are ways to do it in a way that's not confrontational, that's not harsh. It could just be, you know, maybe the next time they miss a video, you could just send a text and say, my daughter, you know, she, she really missed seeing you. Like, when's the next time we can do that? I hope we can plan for something, you know, something that just feels low stakes but is still asserting, you know, and protecting her kids in some way. I also firmly believe that it is the partner's responsibility to be that buffer and to be the main communicator.

[Bob Bordon]

I mean, I really wholeheartedly agree with all of this. One conversation you could have is what role would you like to play as grandparents? And here's the role that I would really love for you to have with our children. And in what ways is that aligned or not? Like, I personally would rather have a hard conversation where I learn something that feels really sad to me than keep on getting my hopes up and then having my kids always be disappointed or realize we do have an alignment of hopes. But Gosh, we're doing a cruddy job of actualizing it.

[Sahaj Korkoli]

Yeah, I really agree with that. And I think that this requires a level of grief too. Right? Like having those hard conversations, accepting what is being said to you in case there is misalignment that requires the process of grieving. Which then brings me to my last point, which is kind of like, how do you protect the kids from this? Right? The kids are probably like, where's Grandma and Grandpa? Like, oh, why didn't they pick up? And so I think it's important for us to think about these other pieces that maybe don't even have anything to do with the grandparents, but it's the emotional impact and then the impact on the kids.

[Bob Bordon]

You also have to think about just the capacity of the grandparents to have this conversation. And I don't necessarily mean the skill level, although a little bit there are kind of generational differences about the willingness to have what might be a more tender, emotional conversation.

[Andy Tagle]

Manage your expectations for what they might be able to give you in that conversation. Yeah, yeah, I like that a lot. Okay, remote relations. Hope it helps more Dear Life Kit after this quick break.

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[Andy Tagle]

Okay, question three dear life kit My parents don't wash their hands after using the bathroom. I've pointed it out more than once, but my mom doesn't listen to advice. Over time I've pointed it out more strongly. She refuses just as strongly. It's disgusting, it's unhygienic, it's infuriating. And she always does the complete opposite of any criticism. What should I do? Signed Potty Panic. The letter writer. Specifically she specified for peeing for number one in case that matters to you. Okay, this Is a strange question. Who would like to start?

[Sahaj Korkoli]

I mean, this is a classic example of reactance, right? Like, the psychological process of, like, pushing back when you're being told to do something. And oftentimes we see it in kids, we'll see it in emotionally immature adults. But, like, at the root of it, someone doesn't want to feel controlled or, like, have a lack of autonomy. Of course, now we're talking about something that's like. I think many people would agree it's the right and proper and hygienic thing to do to wash your hands after you use the restroom. But clearly this letter writer is pushing and pushing and pushing and trying to convince and win a power struggle. And it's not getting anywhere. And so I think my main piece of advice would be stop seeing this as a power struggle and now see it as, what are you gonna do to, like, maintain your own hygiene and. Or share meals or be in your mom's home or be around her knowing that this is what she does?

[Bob Bordon]

I mean, 100%. I love this example because it is so frequent that people will cite facts and figures to try to persuade someone. And facts and figures are not what's persuasive. And so I do think in this case, probably the right answer is, what are the boundaries that I can put that are in within my control? Like, I mean, maybe this is a little extreme. You know, I have two separate serving spoons. Maybe that isn't even extreme. Right? Things you can control. Because in this case, I don't think getting, like, more scientific data is going to be the answer.

[Andy Tagle]

Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. I was trying to think of, like, is there another solve? You know, is it, like, reverse psychology, like, bringing in the coolant? Like, what could possibly be the solution here? But you're both saying we don't fix the problem, we're just letting this one go.

[Bob Bordon]

I mean, Andy, I mean, from a negotiation perspective, I'll use a really fancy word that's not that fancy. But we say look for patterns of deference in relationships. So I think it is a little bit like, is there someone to whom mom often defers? Maybe it is her doctor. Maybe it is the aunt who's a nurse. Maybe it's somebody else. Right. But is there a way to say she doesn't defer to me on this, but she always will defer to somebody else, and then does that person defer to me?

[Sahaj Korkoli]

Yeah, I mean, I love that. I mean, I honestly, this one stumped me a little bit because it goes Back to what you can and can't control. And you can control trying to have this conversation a million times. But what happens when do you finally say I've tried and nothing's changing?

[Bob Bordon]

You know, I have one other thought that I think is just in the spirit of brainstorming here, instead of making again what I would call a fact or data based argument or a I'm just gonna get louder approach, could be to make a personal approach. This would mean a lot to me and I appreciate it's not something you do or think is important and it matters a lot. It may actually work and it's coming from a different place. It's not from a place of I know better. It's from a place that just really means a lot to me.

[Sahaj Korkoli]

Yeah. And if you're gonna do that, anyone listening, just use eye language. I think you know, instead of you're doing this or you're grossing me out, it's like I feel very anxious or it makes me very uncomfortable. Like put it back on you as something that like you're struggling with instead of it like you have to change.

[Andy Tagle]

Alright, our last question. Question 4. Dear Life Kit, My sister in law texted to let me know that she's bringing her cat to our family holiday gathering. I'm very allergic and they know it. It isn't a matter of taking a pill and hoping for the best rather than relaxing. I will have to be concerned about where to sit and what to touch and how to limit my exposure. To be clear, we aren't gathering at a home that has a cat. They are bringing their cat with them. I don't want to make this all about me and my wife doesn't think I should rock the boat. But I'm worried I could have an allergic reaction for days. I have no idea how to respond. Signed itching for a fix. As someone who is very allergic to cats, I feel like I'm a biased opinion. So I'm not going to start this one.

[Bob Bordon]

Well, I shouldn't either because I'm also very allergic to cats. I get itching.

[Sahaj Korkoli]

I don't like cats.

[Bob Bordon]

Our empathy for the cat person is low.

[Andy Tagle]

Our empathy for the cat person is low in this group.

[Bob Bordon]

I mean there's so many things here. But the thing that most upset me was the wife saying don't rock the boat. And I really believe that raising conflict in a healthy way is totally legitimate, actually makes relationships stronger and better. And if we think this is rocking the boat, it's a real misframing. So I would really Want this gentleman to not think of this as rocking the boat, but as raising a really legitimate need and concern.

[Sahaj Korkoli]

Yeah, I totally agree. I think as someone who grew up in an Indian culture and household where I was very much taught as an Indian woman not to rock the boat. I am very familiar with people feeling like saying anything about what you need or want, even if it's appropriate, equals conflict, rupture, disappointment, which then goes right against the people pleasing perfectionism that a lot of people who don't want to rock the boat internalize.

[Bob Bordon]

I just, I want to acknowledge that it is hard for many people to speak up and that sometimes the only models they've had of speaking up are people who are insistent or aggressive or make demands. And so folks do need language and an understanding that speaking up can be done in a kind but also assertive way. And one of the ways, could I just suggest to do this right is to make it not an either or, but a both and right. So to be able to say to the in laws, you know, one of the challenges I think we're going to have with the holidays coming up is it sounds like you need to know that your cat is cared for and maybe you even want to spend some time with the cat. And also, you know, my husband is really allergic to cats, as a reminder. And so we really can have the cat in the house. I wonder if we can brainstorm what needs you have around the cat and also the limitations we have around this allergy. So encompass both sets of needs and then say, that's the shared problem we have to work on.

[Sahaj Korkoli]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andy Tagle]

You know, putting myself in this, in this person's shoes, I'm definitely that person who, if this were me, I would be so uncomfortable. I would just go. I would just go and be allergic. Like, it would. I would. You know what I mean?

[NPR Sponsor Announcer]

Yeah.

[Sahaj Korkoli]

It is interesting though, because what I often see, though, is that we're crossing our own boundaries before we even set them and allow someone else to respect them. And what happens is you make a choice one way or the other. You're either choosing the discomfort of going and having an allergic reaction, or you're making a choice to say something or do something different. Right. Like, we're always making choices and sometimes when we have this deep seated conditioning, I can't rock the boat. We're not seeing it as like a sense of autonomy or a choice. We're saying, I just can't. And it's like you can and you actually do have choice and agency. You're just making the choice that you're used to making versus choosing something different.

[Andy Tagle]

What a great reminder. Itching for a fix. You and me, we're gonna work on it. It is possible to be direct and nice and to deal with your conflicts. Try something new. We're gonna work on it this holiday season. Bob Zahaj Before I let you go, at the end of every episode of youf Life Kit, we ask our guests for their very best piece of advice. I would love to hear what you've got.

[Bob Bordon]

And here's something that's been sticking with me from this conversation. Believe in your own agency. We can't foundationally change our families. We can't change every single thing we want about the holidays. But we do have agency and a capacity to have our own boundaries, but also to influence others.

[Sahaj Korkoli]

Yeah, I think as individuals we have more power than we think. We all have super spheres of influence. We all have ability to do things for ourselves, for other people. Whatever it is, it's not about changing everything. Sometimes it's just about choosing one thing.

[Andy Tagle]

Bob Bordon, Sahaj Korkoli, thank you so much for being here.

[Sahaj Korkoli]

Thank you. This was so good.

[Mariel Segarra]

That was Life Kit reporter Andy Tagle talking with Bob Bordon and Sahaj Korkoli. Before we go, do you have a friend who you're always swapping advice with? Think they'd like this episode? Why not share it? Spread the word about Life Kit. This episode of Life Kit was produced by Sylvie Douglas. Our visuals editor is Beck Harlan and our digital editor is Malika Garib. Megan Kane is our senior supervising editor and Beth Donovan is our executive producer. Our production team also includes Claire Marie Schneider, Lennon Sherburn and Margaret Serino. Engineering support comes from Kwesi Leaf. I'm Mariel Segarra. Thanks for listening.

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