Dear Life Kit: I'm at my breaking point

Summary

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Life Kit – "Dear Life Kit: I'm at my breaking point"

Host: Marielle Segarra (NPR)
Guest Expert: Mariah Seger de Geer, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist
Reporter/Interviewer: Andy Tagle
Date: October 9, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode of NPR’s Life Kit, host Marielle Segarra and reporter Andy Tagle tackle questions from listeners experiencing relationship crises—at their breaking points with friends, partners, and colleagues. Marriage and family therapist Mariah Seger de Geer (BFF Therapy) offers compassionate, practical advice for handling fraught moments in friendships, marriage, infertility struggles, and tricky boundaries with exes, while also exploring deeper themes of grief, hope, and self-respect.

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Key Topics and Discussion Highlights

1. Supporting a Friend Returning to an Abusive Ex

Segment Start: [03:29]

• Listener’s Dilemma: A best friend has gone back to an ex-boyfriend who was previously abusive (physically, mentally, emotionally), after years apart and with a restraining order in the past. The friend claims he’s changed, but the listener is struggling to support the relationship and worries about the friendship suffering as a result.
• Expert Advice:
  • Mariah underscores the emotional conflict: “[Your] friend, their values are very misaligned with yours right now because they came out of this breakup. I would imagine they're in a place of a very different type of loneliness than you have ever felt.” ([04:15], Mariah Seger de Geer)
  • She notes that avoiding the issue is not sustainable:
    • “If you avoid the boyfriend or create a friendship of avoidance, you’re actually reinforcing the exact thing your friend is doing... You're kind of doing a similar thing of I'm avoiding this big thing to get a need met, which is maintaining this friendship that has such value to me.” ([05:50], Mariah)
  • Mariah advises not to "build your friendship on a big fake sort of version of yourself.” ([05:23])
  • Importance of “repair” if the ex is to re-enter the social circle: “If you’re gonna build a life together, how have we created any repair with these other important people in their life?" ([06:25])
  • Holding space for your friend while upholding your boundaries is vital.
• Notable Advice:
  • “Adult relationships are hard. Friendships are hard... coming back together in friendships can be like some of our most cherished moments of sort of like reacquainting and going deeper. It’s profound intimacy that you have in these non romantic relationships.” ([07:05], Mariah)

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2. Navigating Grief, IVF Failure, and Divergent Hopes in Marriage

Segment Start: [07:26]

• Listener’s Dilemma: After three failed IVF cycles and drained savings, one partner wants to try again, the other wants to pursue adoption. Both partners are grieving intensely, but one is immobilized by loss while the other is focused on moving forward.
• Expert Advice:
  • Mariah breaks it into three layers:
    1. Supporting your deeply grieving partner.
    2. Making a collective decision amid divergence.
    3. Tending to your own grief, especially when your partner’s emotions are more overt or intense.
  • She reframes the problem: “It’s not just the baby, but it’s grieving the entire image of what your future life was gonna look like.” ([08:29], Mariah)
  • Warns against urgency and binary thinking (“It’s almost like you’re gambling a little bit.” [09:01])
  • Prescribes finding safety BEFORE making decisions:
    • “For both partners to talk about, like, what do we need to feel safe about having these conversations again?... To get to that conversation could be therapy, could be overall wellness... Right now, before we even get to making a plan, thinking about our options, I need to help calm my body down.” ([09:49-10:10], Mariah)
  • Importance of self-care and joint de-stressing activities (workouts, meditation) as groundwork.
  • On hopelessness and control: “Allow yourself to grieve, right? It’s actually easier to hold on to hope when we allow ourselves the space of like it simply might not happen.” ([11:03], Mariah)
  • Dig into underlying beliefs—often grief about parenthood involves older personal wounds ("I wasn't close with my mother...so if I adopt...I’m not gonna be close").
• Notable Moment:
  • Andy Tagle: "I think what makes this question so painful is that the outcome ... is so entirely out of their control." ([10:43])

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3. Marital Discord Over Work Habits During Remote Work

Segment Start: [13:04]

• Listener’s Dilemma: One spouse resents their partner’s laissez-faire remote work habits, especially compared to her own work ethic and burnout. The partner earns significantly more, but seems to “slack off” during work hours, driving the listener “up the wall.”
• Expert Advice:
  • Mariah sees envy and self-worth issues:
    • “Their sense of belonging, purpose, value is tied to output and they're seeing their partner. Even though they're bringing in the nice income, their output isn’t there...you've lost some respect for your partner ... because that's how you respect yourself.” ([14:17], Mariah)
  • Warns against demanding misery in your partner:
    • "You don't need to force them to be miserable so that, you know, like, the misery loves company...why would you do that to them? You love them." ([15:14], Mariah)
  • Encourages self-reflection: “What are we doing about your burnt out versus projecting out like, you fix that, I'm going to feel better. That's not sustainable either.” ([15:34])
• Notable Quote:
  • "It's easy to blame the relationship for your unhappiness..." ([15:34], Mariah)

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4. Boundaries with a Spouse’s Ex Who Has Mental Health Struggles

Segment Start: [16:12]

• Listener’s Dilemma: A wife is frustrated by her husband's continued (and compassionate) engagement with his ex, who regularly texts, calls in distress, and sends personal packages—despite knowing it upsets his spouse. The ex struggles with mental illness, and the wife wonders how to set boundaries.
• Expert Advice:
  • Mariah identifies enabling: "He's enabling the past girlfriend because he's available."
  • On boundaries: “He needs to reinstate to the ex, like, hey, you know, please don't call after a certain time in a moment of distress, like, who else can you call X or not?”
  • Reframes the husband’s struggle: “If you understand why the husband feels like, I cannot abandon someone in distress, you can start to see it's not about the ex. It's about my partner's need to show up here.” ([18:39], Mariah)
  • Guidance to listener: Focus on sharing your own feelings, not making demands: “So keep talking about how it feels for you versus telling them what to do.” ([18:39])
  • Identifies that deep personal wounds about abandonment, not love for the ex, may prevent a shift (“...most of the time, it’s not that he’s in love with his ex. It sounds like worry, fear, guilt.”)
• Broader Reflection:
  • On obligations: “Love is not 1000% showing up at all times in any state or any form...at any cost to yourself. That's not love...We have a lot of names for those things—codependent, relationships....” ([20:03], Mariah)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On boundaries and authenticity:
  • “It’s really important to not continue to build your friendship on a big fake sort of version of yourself.” ([05:23], Mariah)
• On parallel avoidance in relationships:
  • “If you avoid the boyfriend or create a friendship of avoidance, you’re actually reinforcing the exact thing your friend is doing....” ([05:50], Mariah)
• On loss and grieving the future:
  • "It's not just the baby, but it's grieving the entire image of what your future life was gonna look like." ([08:29], Mariah)
• On love and boundaries:
  • “Boundaries is distance between loving myself and loving you.” ([20:03], Mariah)
• On honoring your gut:
  • "When we don't listen to our intuition, we're actually really betraying ourself and we need to stop doing that." ([21:03], Mariah)

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Final Segment: Mariah’s Best Life Advice

[21:03]

• “My advice that I’m really sitting in is about listening to yourself. When we don’t listen to our intuition, we’re actually really betraying ourself and we need to stop doing that.” — Mariah Seger de Geer

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Important Timestamps

• [03:29] Supporting a friend dating an abusive ex
• [07:26] Grieving and navigating IVF failure in marriage
• [13:04] Work-from-home resentment between spouses
• [16:12] Spousal boundaries with a needy ex-partner
• [20:03] The broader meaning of boundaries and love

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Takeaways

• Authenticity, repair, and honest boundaries are fundamental for healthy relationships, even—especially—at our breaking points.
• Grief and hope can coexist only if we honor difficult emotions without slipping into avoidance or magical thinking.
• Conflict over values (work, money, family) often points to deeper wounds around self-worth and control—not just immediate irritants.
• True love means setting boundaries for the well-being of all parties, not sacrificing oneself endlessly for others.

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For listeners in crisis or experiencing domestic abuse:
National Domestic Abuse Hotline: 800-799-SAFE

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Transcript

[Podcast Announcer]

This message comes from the podcast Landlines with Allison Williams. The Girls and Get out actress and her lifelong best friends, an early childhood educator and behavioral therapist. Invite you to join the group chat every new parent needs Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[Marielle Segarra]

You're listening to Life Kit from npr. Hey everybody, it's Marielle. The relationships we have with the people we're close to can be so good for us, and they can also be incredibly frustrating. Our friends, our partners, our family members, our colleagues. They sometimes disappoint us, often in patterns that repeat over and over again and make you feel like you're at an impasse. Mariah Seger de Geer is a licensed marriage and family therapist. Her practice is called BFF Therapy, and she has a lot of advice for navigating these moments on this edition of Dear Life Kit, the series from reporter Andy Tagle. Andy asks Mariah a series of anonymous questions from listeners who are at the end of their ropes. The questions will come from different arenas of life friendship, romantic, love, work. But they all come from folks who've reached a breaking point with the people around them.

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[Marielle Segarra]

Before we jump back into the episode, I want to share an exciting newsletter series we've been working on. There is a staggering amount of credit card debt in America. $1.21 trillion in 2025 to be exact. Here at Life Kit, we know there are so many reasons people get into debt. We're not here to shame, we're here to help. So we made a special newsletter series to help you tackle your credit card debt. We'll walk you through everything from tracking your spending to picking a debt payment plan you'll actually stick to. You can sign up at npr.org/credit card debt or you can find the link in the description for this episode.

[Andy Tagle]

Okay, Mariah, here's our first question. Dear Life Kit, My best friend is back dating her abusive ex boyfriend. He was physically, mentally and emotionally abusive towards her. Eventually she broke things off and got a restraining order. Flash forward five years. She just got out of a different relationship and started hooking up with her old ex. I explained how it'd be hard for me to accept him after knowing what he's done, but she says that he's changed. I pretty much avoid speaking about him or hanging out around them, but it's put a rift in our friendship because she says I can't accept her happiness. What should I do? Signed forlorn bestie Mariah. There are a lot of questions in this question. Big picture here. First, what is a best friend's duty in this situation?

[Mariah Seger de Geer]

Yeah, and this is a really hard one. It's not just about this person they're hooking up with. It's about also the fact that your friend, their values are very misaligned with yours right now because they came out of this breakup. I would imagine they're in a place of a very different type of loneliness than you have ever felt. They're stuck in whatever cycle it is. It's also important to think about is we often see our friends in the best way possible. It's not just we want the best for them. We don't see them with their insecurities. We're seeing them as these capable, majestic human beings who we've known and who we absolutely love and care about. And so how can someone we see so magically.

[Sponsor Voice]

Right.

[Mariah Seger de Geer]

Even with all their faults, Right. You can be magical and have faults. Go back to that. And so it's so hard to even fathom why they would do that because we see them as a really capable, lovable human being that can have a healthy relationship, hopefully. And, and so in this is honoring the fact that, yep, you're not going to know exactly what they feel in this relationship, but you also can't pretend, which is really important, that you're going to co sign the relationship. It's really important to not continue to build your friendship on a big fake sort of version of yourself.

[Andy Tagle]

That was going to be my next question is the avoidance of the relationship. Is it possible to just skirt around it? Like just, you know, get your nails done and talk about work and talk about, I don't know, talk about politics, talk about everything except for the boyfriend? Not possible.

[Mariah Seger de Geer]

No. If you think about it another way is if you avoid the boyfriend or create a friendship of avoidance, you're actually reinforcing the exact thing your friend is doing. They're creating a relationship that's probably mostly avoiding the amount of abuse in the past to get another need met. So you're kind of doing a similar thing of I'm avoiding this big thing to get a need met, which is maintaining this friendship that has such value to me. I would also be really curious how is he coming back and reentering this system? Because this is your system of people, your community, and so is he doing any actual repair? Repair is so key. He must have done a repair, you would hope, with the partner that he went back to. But also like, if we sit here and think about it is if you're gonna build a life together, how have we created any repair with these other important people in their life?

[Andy Tagle]

Yeah, that makes sense. You know, I'm also thinking about the episode Life Kit has done on supporting a friend in an abusive relationship. And the advice there similarly was to stay in touch with a friend and just let them know that they're loved.

[Mariah Seger de Geer]

Yeah.

[Andy Tagle]

Final thoughts for our forlorn bestie.

[Mariah Seger de Geer]

It's hard. Adult relationships are hard. Friendships are hard. Considering we're growing up with our friends over the years, we really are able to mature together and it's a really beautiful thing. And that coming back together in friendships can be like some of our most cherished moments of sort of like reacquainting and going deeper. It's profound intimacy that you have in these non romantic relationships.

[Andy Tagle]

Before we move on, if any listeners find themselves in a domestic abuse situation, they can call the National Domestic abuse hotline at 800-799-SAFE. Let's move to question two. Dear Life Kit, My wife and I have tried and failed to have a child via IVF three times and are now scraping the bottom of our savings. We're both heartbroken. She wants to use the last of our savings to try one more time, but I want to move on and try to adopt. She is distraught and can't move on. I'm grieving too. She knows But I'm trying to move forward. As for her, she often runs into the other room, cries or gets angry when someone brings up her sister's new baby, or someone plays a movie on tv with any pregnancy or childbirth in the plot, our daily conversations veer into crises as our focus returns to babies. I don't know how to help her. Signed Baby Blues. Mariah. My heart goes out to this couple.

[Mariah Seger de Geer]

Yeah. My initial thought is we're looking at sort of two pieces to this question. We have. How do I support this person who I love, who's everything in this moment of grief that I'm feeling too, Right. How do I support my partner? And who's just tender, right? So, so, so tender. Very much on edge. Right. Everything's hurting them. Related to baby, related to future. And then also, what do we do? Like, what's that collective decision? And the third part that they're not even asking is, like, how do I tend to my grief when this person is weeping next to me with much bigger expressions of grief? It's not just the baby, but it's grieving the entire image of what your future life was gonna look like. And there's a lot of fear. And so for this couple, it feels very much in this urgent emergency space without a plan. Because the plan was that thing over there way before they probably ever started IVF, right. And so now we're just being like, okay, 10 more grand. Do more. You know what I mean? It's just like. It's almost like you're gambling a little bit. For the person who's stressed about the money and the other person's feeling like, well, I'm gambling, but what if it all works out?

[Andy Tagle]

Yeah, I feel that urgency, and there's not a lot of middle ground. What steps can they take to ensure whatever move they make, they're doing so together and not apart. When it's. When it feels a little bit black or white for them.

[Mariah Seger de Geer]

Yeah. So really, for both partners to talk about, like, what do we need to feel safe about having these conversations again? And so to get to that conversation could be therapy, could be overall wellness. Right now, before we even get to making a plan, thinking about our options, I need to help calm my body down. Right. And are there things you want to do together? Do you want to work out together? Do you want to meditate together? And even if we're thinking about getting pregnant, you're gonna wanna do all those things that are bringing less stress to your life then really talking about. Yeah, like, what is a meaningful life for us. And as we set that up, what is the risk in spending? And then if we think of each of their own history around money, their relationship to money, growing up, what they're each potentially giving up in these decisions are really big things.

[Andy Tagle]

I think what makes this question so painful is that the outcome that they're hoping for is so entirely out of their control. And maybe not everyone out there wants to become a parent or has gone through ivf, but I imagine a lot of people can understand that feeling. What advice do you have for us on how to hold on to hope in moments of powerlessness?

[Mariah Seger de Geer]

Allow yourself to grieve, right? It's actually easier to hold on to hope when we allow ourselves the space of like it simply might not happen. You know, one of the hardest things I find when I work with couples is that, you know, if one person truly wants to carry a child and birth a child themselves, it's what are they telling themselves they won't have in the future if they open up the idea to fostering and adopting and these different things, right? And a lot of time it is about other wounds of like, oh, I wasn't close with my mother, so if I adopt versus caring, like, I'm not gonna be close. And so it's I've attached all these other things to what that means though, and what does that mean for me as a person and purpose?

[Andy Tagle]

Got it. So you have to get underneath all the other things. When we come back, more questions from listeners at their breaking points.

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[Mariah Seger de Geer]

That no one in your life can help with? Something that makes the people around you.

[Sponsor Voice]

Go, yikes, What a weird question.

[Mariah Seger de Geer]

Well freak here on how to do everything. We want to help you out. Each week we get fantastic experts to answer your questions. People like us, Poet Laureate Ada Limon, bodybuilder Arnold Schwarzenegger and rapper Rick Ross. Season two just launched. Go listen to how to do everything from npr.

[Andy Tagle]

You ready for number three?

[Mariah Seger de Geer]

Yep.

[Andy Tagle]

Dear Life Kit, I'm having trouble respecting my husband because of his work habits. We've both been working from home since COVID I pride myself on my work ethic and have a very good reputation amongst my peers and my company in general. My husband makes a substantial amount more than me, but he doesn't work nearly as hard as I do. He spends his morning doing personal things. We're talking hours at a time. He often signs off early or runs around during the day when he should be at his desk. This bothers me so much because while he's slacking off all day, my work has been so stressful lately that I'm considering leaving my position. After 20 years on the job, going back to the office isn't an option for me. It is for him. But why would he go? He has it too good. My husband and I get along very well in every other aspect of our lives, but this pesky 95 situation is driving me up the wall. Please help. Signed cranky co worker. All right, so this situation is perhaps a bit more light hearted than the last few we've heard, but I can really feel Cece's irritation here. To me, Mariah, the main issue I'm seeing here is envy. Are you hearing this the same way?

[Mariah Seger de Geer]

Yeah, I'm definitely hearing envy, jealousy. They feel stuck in their position. Deeper than that, I think there's two really big things. Is one they're telling us right in the beginning, like, I pride myself in their work ethic. So their sense of belonging, purpose, value is tied to output and they're seeing their partner. Even though they're bringing in the nice income, their output isn't there. So I think it's envy. But you've lost some respect for your partner in twisted into that because that's how you respect yourself. And so if you were slacking off, I mean, in reality you're unhappy and probably overworking, so you probably should be working a little bit less. But how could you do that? Because that is how you see value in yourself. And so you gotta talk about that as a couple. But you don't need to force them to be miserable so that, you know, like, the misery loves company.

[Podcast Announcer]

Yeah.

[Mariah Seger de Geer]

So that you're happy. Like, why? Why would you do that to them? You love them. Why would you do that?

[Andy Tagle]

Absolutely. Mariah, I think we all have those bugaboos. We have things about our partner that really get under our skin. How can we gauge when it's worth Speaking up about or trying to make a change and when it might just be your own issue to deal.

[Mariah Seger de Geer]

Well, if hopefully your partner's able to say that to you, to be like, I think this could be some of your stuff. Right. You know what I mean? Can you hear that? If your partner says that to be like, you know, I'm wondering if this has to do with you and your unhappiness at work. And it's easy to blame the relationship for your unhappiness. Oh, right. Which is like such a hard thing to hear from a partner because some of it is the system of the relationship that is bringing it out. And yeah, I mean, and they sound very burnt out. So what are we doing about your burnt out versus projecting out like, you fix that, I'm going to feel better. That's not sustainable either.

[Andy Tagle]

Last question. Are we ready?

[Mariah Seger de Geer]

Mm.

[Andy Tagle]

Dear Life Kit, My husband and I have been together for six years and we have a one year old son. Before we met, we had both been in serious relationships. I have a courteous but distant relationship with my ex. My husband's ex, on the other hand, is very much in our lives. She sends his Christmas cards every year without fail. She mails him packages with sentimental objects, texts him about once a month to chat, and occasionally calls hysterical over some issue she's experiencing. My husband is aware that all of this bothers me, but he feels conflicted because he still cares about her and because she suffers from extreme mental illness. I've been patient about the situation for six years, but I'm tired of her inserting herself into our lives whenever she feels like it. How do I make my husband understand Enough is enough. Signed six year itch. Okay, this is clearly a sticky situation. The complicating factor here, I think for me the reason why it's gotten to an end of the rope type situation is the mental health portion of this. To what extent should the husband feel responsible for the mental health of a past girlfriend?

[Mariah Seger de Geer]

Yeah, I believe what's happening is he, I mean, honestly, he's enabling the past girlfriend because he's available. So I think the husband understanding it's not just about it is about boundaries and your new relationship and family and you're a parent now and all that. But it's much more around like really think about this relationship with your ex and what is this doing for her? He needs to reinstate to the ex, like, hey, you know, please don't call after a certain time in a moment of distress, like, who else can you call X or not? I think having a friend that only reaches out in distress can really impact relationships because it's, you know, during dinner, family time, things like that. And it's, oh, here's so and so calling again. Because they reach for you as sort of like the fake therapist, you know, thing over and over and over again. So it's okay to tell a friend to set some boundaries and be like, I have to love my family right here, and I do care about you, and to sort of hold some of those boundaries.

[Andy Tagle]

It sounds like our letter writer, six year itch, has tried to get this message across to her husband and it's fallen on deaf ears.

[Mariah Seger de Geer]

Yeah.

[Andy Tagle]

Her question is, how do I make my husband understand enough is enough.

[Mariah Seger de Geer]

Yeah. It's hard to make someone understand your perspective and feeling. So keep talking about how it feels for you versus telling them what to do. And if the couple was in the room with me, like, if this brought them into couples therapy, I would ask the husband, tell me about when you were abandoned. Tell me about that wound. If you understand why the husband feels like, I cannot abandon someone in distress, you can start to see it's not about the ex. It's about my partner's need to show up here. And the important thing to tell to the wife is something's going on that they can't step away. And it doesn't mean if they loved you enough, they would. And a lot of times we struggle with that when a partner doesn't change, or we tell ourselves, when they do change, it means, I've won, I'm enough, they care enough, they're choosing to be here. But when people can't change, something huge is happening. And most of the time, it's not that he's in love with his ex. Right. It sounds like worry, fear, guilt.

[Andy Tagle]

What this letter brought for me is a larger question of what do we owe the people we love? You know, I think we all make sacrifices for our friends and family to some extent. Playing nice with that uncle you can't stand picking up the late night phone call, moving, lending some money, et cetera. Where do you draw a boundary so you can avoid ever getting to the end of your rope with a loved one?

[Mariah Seger de Geer]

Yeah, I love the quote, boundaries is distance between loving myself and loving you. What do we owe people we love? Love is not 1000% showing up at all times in any state or any form, and just at any cost to yourself. That's not love. Right. That's something. Right. We have a lot of different names for those things. Codependent, relationships, all these different things. This partner is doing something that is creating instability in their active life. It is not an act of love picking up those phone calls because it's hurting them, right? It's hurting someone they love who they have a child with who's right here in front of them. So it's not coming from a place of overall wellness and building towards a life that's stable. It's coming from something else.

[Andy Tagle]

Mariah's secret gear. Thank you so much for your time for your advice. Before you go, we ask every guest of Dear Life Kit for their best piece of advice. I would love to hear yours.

[Mariah Seger de Geer]

My advice that I'm really sitting in is about listening to yourself. When we don't listen to our intuition, we're actually really betraying ourself and we need to stop doing that.

[Andy Tagle]

Thanks, Mariah.

[Mariah Seger de Geer]

Thank you.

[Marielle Segarra]

That was Life Kit reporter Andy Tagle. This episode of Life Kit was produced by Sylvie Douglas. Our visuals editor is Beck Harlan and our digital editor is Malika Grebe. Meghan Keane is our supervising editor and Beth Donovan is our executive producer. Our production team also includes Margaret Serino and Claire Marie Schneider. Engineering support comes from Tiffany Vera Castro. I'm Marielle Segarra. Thanks for listening.

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