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- [00:00]
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- [00:19]
Mariel Segarra
This is NPR's Life Kit. I'm Mariel Segarra. I want to start this episode by saying we have all made financial mistakes. Yanelli Espinal is a financial educator. She works at a nonprofit called NextGen.
- [00:35]
Yanelli Espinal
Personal Finance, which is on a mission to try to get every single high school student in America guaranteed access to a semester course about personal finance and financial literacy.
- [00:45]
Mariel Segarra
Ten years ago, she was deep in credit card debt and counting down the days until she was gonna pay it.
- [00:51]
Yanelli Espinal
Off in October of 2015. I was gonna make my last credit card payment. So like, October of 2015 was my mantra every day, right? Like, I would wake up in 2014 to get dressed for work and I'm like, October 2015, October 2015. Because I knew that was my North Star. Like I was going to be debt free on that day.
- [01:10]
Mariel Segarra
Yanelli wrote a book called Mind you'd Money.
- [01:12]
Yanelli Espinal
Being low income and a daughter of immigrants, I really had to learn the money system in the US like by myself. And I wanted to tell that story and help navigate, you know, credit scores and the stock market.
- [01:24]
Mariel Segarra
One thing she's learned, if you make a financial misstep, cut yourself some slack.
- [01:29]
Yanelli Espinal
It's okay that I made a bunch of mistakes. It's okay that I thought I was JLo when I was 21 and I bought too many clothes and shoes. It's okay, look. So mistakes were made. I didn't really know how to approach my finances. I never had guidance. We never learn about these things. But now that I know better, I'm doing better.
- [01:44]
Mariel Segarra
On this episode of Life, Kit Yaneli and I are going to talk about some of the common financial mistakes she sees people make. We'll break them up into three borrowing money, making money on your money, and budgeting. And the point of all this is not to shame you, but to give you more information and help you figure out a path forward.
- [02:04]
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- [02:20]
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- [02:42]
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- [03:12]
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- [03:44]
Mariel Segarra
I have stood in the parking lot of the Olive Garden in the middle of Flagstaff, looked up and seen the Milky Way.
- [03:50]
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If I stood in a restaurant parking lot in Kirksville and looked up, would I see the Milky Way?
- [03:54]
Yanelli Espinal
Nope.
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Mariel Segarra
Not even close.
- [03:55]
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- [04:06]
Mariel Segarra
So we asked you for some of the most common mistakes that you see. So I think they fall into a few categories. So the first, I would say is in the category of taking on debt in general. What are some of the most common mistakes you see for people who are borrowing money?
- [04:23]
Yanelli Espinal
Yeah, I mean, they just don't understand the relationship between the borrower and the lender. So they don't realize that this relationship isn't like they're going to help me and give me free money. Like this relationship is. They're running a business and they're going to make profit off of me meeting a loan right now. And so I'm going to come in with my business hat on, which means I'm thinking about negotiating. I'm thinking about how can I get the best deal in this partnership, in this business deal. And we don't operate that way. Oftentimes we operate as like we're desperate. We just really need this money and we're going to just take any loan that we can get. Those interest rates are so high, they compound so quickly that it means that the amount that you're paying back is significantly more than the amount that you borrowed and it can really end up leading you to be trapped in a cycle of debt payments that you can't really get out of.
- [05:13]
Mariel Segarra
Okay, so it sounds like the advice or the takeaway there would be to shop around.
- [05:18]
Yanelli Espinal
If you're borrowing money, comparison shop 100%. It's just like, yeah, getting like this is what we got to do. This is what we should all be.
- [05:25]
Mariel Segarra
Doing on the comparison shopping front. Are there institutions that you might consider that might have more favorable terms for you?
- [05:34]
Yanelli Espinal
Yeah, totally. Credit unions are notoriously known historically for giving better interest rates on loans. And the reason why is because you're not just a customer, just a client. Like you are actually a member owner. So they're able to take the money that they would typically make in profit and actually divvy it up and give it back to their members by offering much lower interest rates for things like credit cards, card loans, or a car loan, or a personal loan, or even a mortgage loan. So if you are going to borrow money for any big ticket item like that and you're not a member of a credit union, it's a good idea to establish an account with a credit union a little before you know you're going to need to borrow money so that you already have a relationship with that credit union. And then when you need a loan you can say, hey, you know me, you know I've been, I've been doing my banking here for a little while. We have a relationship, I have an account. And so that's going to give you the ability to go and get lower interest rate loans through a credit union rather than these big major banks. And then also online research, there's so many marketplaces nowadays that will show you like 15 to 20 possible loan options. And then you can compare the loan terms and go ahead and apply once you find one that you think is the best deal for you.
- [06:44]
Mariel Segarra
Another financial mistake that you told us you see commonly is about co signing loans for someone else. Can you talk about that a little bit?
- [06:52]
Yanelli Espinal
Oh yes. This is particularly when you are maybe raised in a, in a family where the values are very much like community oriented. Like we're here for each other other, we do everything for our family. And what ends up happening is you see sometimes siblings where one sibling has really poor credit, they can't qualify for a loan and then they ask their other sibling, hey can you help me? And then of course, how am I going to say no to my family? So then they co sign a loan for their sibling and the sibling stops making their payments. And then what happens is you are equally responsible, 100% responsible for the payments because you co signed. And so I've just seen so many people watching their credit score get tanked because both of the borrowers who co signed together just are not able to pay back that loan.
- [07:37]
Mariel Segarra
Okay, so what's the advice for people who are in that situation? Right. Let's say it's your sibling and they're like, hey, can you co sign this loan? I really need this. I need to get this car so I can get to work. I need this. I need this loan to keep afloat. Help me out, please.
- [07:54]
Yanelli Espinal
Yeah, I mean, I had this happen to me. I had a God sister a few years back who was trying to go back to nursing school, and she texted me and asked me to cosign a loan for her. And I just said, I love you, girl. I want to help you out. I can sit down with you and try and help you find a loan for people with a lower credit score that can help you qualify for that. I can also spend some time with you looking over your credit report to help you boost your score so that you can then try again and see if you qualify for a loan. I'll sit with you and go through your budget and see if we can squeeze out places where there's a little extra money that you're spending maybe unnecessarily. Like, I offered time, resources, and as much help and support as I could, being honest about my why, like, hey, you know, I want to be able to help you, but it's not something that I'm comfortable doing, putting my credit at risk with somebody else's loan for their goals. And I think if you do that from a place of authenticity, love, kindness, wishing the very best, and not a place of, like, anger or judgment or spite, I think most people will understand.
- [08:56]
Mariel Segarra
So that's one bucket. Another one is mistakes. When you're trying to make money on your money, when you're trying to invest or earn interest. What are some of those. What are some of the most common mistakes you see in that bucket?
- [09:10]
Yanelli Espinal
80% of Americans are not using a high yield savings account. How your cash is literally losing value every single year over year because inflation changes every year. Sometimes it's 4%, sometimes it's 3%, sometimes it's 7, 8%. And your cash sitting in that traditional savings account is barely making any interest at all. Rates are as low as like 0.01 at major banks. Right. So we have to kind of go out and look like, how can I put my money to work and make me the most money and grow me the most money while it's sitting in an account? And right now, hands down, for any cash that you have, it's going to be a high yield savings account. One thing I will tell you, the banks that offer these accounts tend to be lesser known banks like online only banks or mobile only banks. And people don't really feel that they're all that familiar with these names and institutions that are not as common as like the big major banks that we see every time we go outside. But if you make sure that your bank account is FDIC insured or if you have a credit union savings account, that your credit union is NCUA insured, it's the same thing for credit unions. You're making sure you're protecting yourself and your money and it's backed by the government. So as long as you do that, there's no reason to think that there's something shady going on.
- [10:22]
Mariel Segarra
And so this is one way to make money on your money is putting it in a high yield savings account, but another way to make money on your money is to invest it. And I think a lot of people are not so familiar with that. What are some of the financial mistakes that you see around investing?
- [10:39]
Yanelli Espinal
Yeah, actually. So I was doing a workshop in one of the teaching workshops I've been doing this summer. And at the end of the workshop, one of the cleaning staff people came in and he spoke to me and he said, hey, I heard your workshop about how important financial literacy is. I wanted to talk to you because when I first got my job, they offered me a workplace retirement plan. It was called like a 401k. My cousin told me to not do it because he said it was the scam. And now I'm getting very close to retirement age and I, and like I feel like I made a mistake. I don't know, like, do you know about that? And I was like, oh my goodness. Like my heart just wanted to break for this man. He was an older man, he was a person of color, like characteristics of the type of person who often is underserved by the financial industry. And I was just like, oh my goodness. Like your cousin did not serve you well telling you this scam. That is not true. It's not a scam, it is a benefit. It's a workplace benefit. So if I, if I make a dollar this year, I'm going to be taxed, right? I have to pay whatever tax percentage I owe on that dollar. But if I take that dollar and tuck it away into a 401k or another workplace retirement plan, it won't get taxed until I actually take it out at retirement in the future. And all the money that I do put into that account will be able to get used to purchase stock market investments like this is amazing because if you look at the return of the stock market, for example, in 2023, it was 24%. But because there's so much volatility, people I think are afraid of it and they think it's scammy because the market return changes year over year. This year could be, you know, negative even, you know, the market could drop and people could lose money in their accounts. But generally speaking, when you just take the average return of all the companies in the stock market in the United States alone over a 20 or 30 year period of time, it's about 9%. So that will actually grow your money. So by the time it's retirement time and you want to kick back, relax, enjoy the fruits of your labor. You actually have some fruits?
- [12:38]
Mariel Segarra
Yeah. Basically these are considered a benefit because they offer you some sort of tax savings and because they offer you an opportunity to invest in the stock market and to do it potentially with the help of your company. Because often companies will provide a match. If you put in, let's say, 3% of your salary, they'll match that and they'll put in 3% of your salary. Like the equivalent amount of money you never would have gotten otherwise.
- [13:10]
Yanelli Espinal
Yes, if you take $1,500 of your pre tax income and then you'll put that into your account, but then your company is going to match it. So then they're also going to give you another 1500. So by you putting 1,500 in, it's like your money is working more for you because the company matches that 1,500. But if you don't put anything in the account at all, well, then you're basically saying, I don't want $1,500 for my company.
- [13:35]
Mariel Segarra
Another financial mistake you've talked about is investing based on what causes hype, right? Like what's hot right now. Buying a bunch of shares of individual stocks rather than putting money into something less risky like an index fund, which is a big bundle of stocks and bonds.
- [13:52]
Yanelli Espinal
So when you pick stocks, you're trying really hard to like predict the future and say, I think I know how to pick the stocks that are going to be the ones that are going to go to the moon, that are going to Be, you know, make ton of profit. But you don't know and neither do I, and neither does the person who's screaming on the news. We're all speculating, we're all just trying to make our best guess based on what we see happening. And if you want to dabble with individual stocks, what I like to say is you should have a percentage rule. So you say, you know, 80% of my money I invest in the tried and true approach that always works for people. The index funds, the target day funds, the mutual funds, the ETFs that are low cost and really good at harvesting tax losses. So making sure it gives you a good tax strategy. Right. The other 20%. So 1/5 of your money that I'll use to kind of dabble in things that I think are hot and cool, like maybe some crypto or maybe some individual stocks that I want to buy. And that's fine, but acknowledge that that's stuff that could really go wrong and you could lose that piece of your account. But at least the majority of the rest of your money isn't going to be completely risked in this world of hype. That might work out, but it also might not.
- [15:01]
Mariel Segarra
The other category I would say that we've talked about is budgeting. You sent us one about lifestyle inflation. When you start making more money, you can often start spending more money and then suddenly you think you're broke. I have had, I won't call out who, but folks I know who are making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and somehow they're living paycheck to paycheck. Help. I don't understand it.
- [15:26]
Yanelli Espinal
It's wild. So what they do is they immediately look around at the other people making multiple six figures and they say, oh, this is the level that we're on now. This is the lane that we're in. So we got to do the things that people in this lane do. I have to get a bigger house, I have to upgrade my home. We need this, we need that. And so the money that you just started making more, the excess money that you have, disappears literally right away into thin air because it's going into new financial obligations that are not necessary. They're not needs, let's be real. They are wants that you have so that you can keep up with the look of being a six figure plus earner. But you also deserve to have a dignified retirement. And you also deserve a lot of other things like being able to pass generational wealth down to your children and, and their children's children and it takes a generation to create generational wealth. It's not going to happen today or tomorrow or next month. You you have to really be in it for the long run.
- [16:29]
Mariel Segarra
Yanali, thank you so much.
- [16:31]
Yanelli Espinal
Of course.
- [16:32]
Mariel Segarra
Alright, time for a recap. If you need a loan, shop around. Don't just go to one bank and accept the terms they give you. You can compare rates online and negotiate with lenders. Also, consider opening up an account with a credit union. They may have better interest rates for loans if you end up needing one. If you co sign a loan for someone else, you will be on the hook if they stop making payments. If that's not something you're willing to do, say no and maybe offer a different kind of help. Get a high yield Savings account that'll pay you 4 or 5% interest on your deposits. And to protect your money, make sure the bank is FDIC insured or the credit union is NCUA National Credit Union Administration insured. For long term investments, don't put most of your money in stocks that seem hot right now. Instead, invest in funds that include a whole bunch of stocks and bonds. If your employer offers a 401k or 403b or another retirement account that is a benefit, use it. Put money in especially if your employer offers to match your contributions. And if you start making more money, that doesn't mean you have to spend it all. Maybe you don't need that bigger house or a nicer car. This episode of Life Kit was produced by Sylvie Douglas. Meghan Cain is our supervising editor and Beth Donovan is our Executive producer. Engineering support comes from Simon Laszlo Jansen. I'm Mariel Segarra. Thanks for listening.
- [18:00]
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- [18:52]
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