Will Stone (3:07)

Yeah, and this caught my attention because it was ingrained in me when I was getting into resistance training that you really had to pack on the weight to see, you know, big changes in muscle and strength. Over time, the story has changed with more well controlled studies. And in these studies, researchers would compare. Compare people who were using lighter weights and doing more reps with people who were lifting heavier and fewer reps and heavy. Here is relative for each person. Right. It's basically what you can lift a few times, you know, without taking a break. And, you know, an example of this, one of these studies was done by Brad Schoenfeld at Lehman College in the Bronx, New York. They had a group doing about 10 reps with heavier weights and then another group doing about 30 reps with lighter weights. And at the end of the study, it turned out both had similar increases in muscle. So the message from this research and others is that there are basically many paths to packing on muscle. You can be flexible with the weights you choose and the number of reps you do. But there is one non negotiable to all of this. Here's Schoenfeld. You need to push relatively hard. You do not necessarily need to train to muscle failure, but you need to substantially challenge your muscles, provided that's the case. Lightweights, heavyweights, all build similar amounts of muscle. And I think it's pretty intuitive. Your muscles should be really tired during those final reps. Like, you really have to struggle to get them done. One piece of nuance here is that with strength, which is a little different than just building muscle, there are more factors to strength than just the size of your muscle. Research does show that if you're trying to get the most gains in strength possible, specifically, you will have to lift heavier. But Schoenfeld says that probably doesn't matter for most of us, you know, unless you are trying to go into the gym there and impress people with that one max bench press, you can gain sufficient strength with lighter weights or heavier weights, as long as you're really taxing and tiring those muscles.

Marielle Segarra (5:14)

Okay, got it. I'm trying to lift a car. So what do you think?

Will Stone (5:18)

You better lift heavy.

Marielle Segarra (5:20)

Okay. Another myth is that you need to spend hours in the gym every week to make progress and get stronger.

Will Stone (5:27)

Not true, not true. There's a lot of interest in this question right now. Basically, what is the least you can get away with and still see meaningful benefits? And the reason is that most adults still don't do any kind of strength, muscle building activity regularly. In part because there's been a lot of emphasis on aerobic exercise over the years. You know, we all know about step counts, that type of thing. Research shows resistance training has these massive benefits for your cardiovascular health, your metabolic health, mental health, your brain. I could go on and on. Researchers want to figure out how we can make this doable, really for everybody. And the short answer is that if you can get to the gym once a week, 30 to 45 minutes, doing about two to three sets per exercise, that can be quite effective. Two times a week is even better. But we're still talking about aiming for maybe an hour to an hour and a half total in a given week. In other words, you don't need to work your way through every machine in there, targeting every little muscle. There are a handful of big exercises that you can prioritize and still get those major health benefits, including for longevity.

Marielle Segarra (6:35)

That's really good to hear because I think there's a lot on social media about maximizing every last bit of your workout. And like you mentioned, there are all these machines at the gym and you might walk in and be like, do I need to be doing those? How do you even use that?

Will Stone (6:51)

That's right. And you could end up spending hours at that. I spoke to Stuart Phillips at McMaster University in Canada about this. He's a researcher who focuses on resistance training and muscle. And he had a nice analogy here. He said, imagine you have a wet.

Stuart Phillips (7:06)

Towel, dip the cloth, and you twist it, and a ton of water comes out in the first twist. That's the first set. And then the second twist last comes out. And then, you know, obviously you can keep twisting the cloth and you, you do get some water. And that's what the hardcore practitioners, the people who are in the gym four, five and six, and even seven days a week, that's what they're doing. They're trying to get the very last drop.

Will Stone (7:29)

But most of us don't need to stress about getting every little drop out of there. It's really diminishing returns at a certain point. I even saw one study that followed like 15,000 people who only did 20 minutes a week over about seven years. They still had substantial improvements in their strength. Most of those come Pretty early on, and then. And you're basically maintaining it from there on.

Marielle Segarra (7:53)

That's amazing. Only 20 minutes a week.

Will Stone (7:55)

Yeah.

Marielle Segarra (7:57)

Okay. Well, another myth is that you need to get sore for the exercise to work. I definitely thought that my sore muscles were an indicator of, you know. Oh, okay. Like, we tore some stuff up in there. We're getting swole.

Will Stone (8:13)

That's right. Well, it turns out you do not have to come out of the gym looking like Frankenstein, you know, barely able to walk. It's this mindset, really, of no pain, no gain. Right. And the soreness probably does reflect the fact that you worked hard in that workout. And if you are new to all of this, your body is kind of like, what's going on here? It's trying to adapt. You should expect to be sore over time, though. Your muscles do get accustomed to resistance training. If you're doing it regularly, you won't get very sore. There's even a technical name for this. It's called the repeated bout effect. Basically, so long as you're working hard, pushing your muscles during the actual workout, like we talked about, you can still make progress. And you don't have to be super sore to know it's, you know, quote working. And I think it's an important message when you're starting out, in particular, because it can be rough. Right. Your muscles can feel kind of wrecked after a workout. I lift regularly, and when I stop for a few weeks and get back at it, everything is sore. Over time, that will diminish, and you are still making progress.

Marielle Segarra (9:16)

That's really good to know. One thing I've heard before is that you need to keep changing up your workouts. Otherwise, your body will get used to what you're doing, and the training will stop working. Is that true?

Will Stone (9:27)

It's not. Though. I definitely am guilty of falling for this. This idea that you need to throw some new, strange, painful exercise at yourself. Keep your body guessing, change the order of things. The fact is, if you do a new exercise or a bunch of new things, you might be more sore because your body isn't used to that movement or exercise. But the experts I spoke with said switching things up dramatically like that is really not necessary. What you do need to do is come up with some kind of new stimulus when things start to get a bit easier. So, for example, that could be adding a bit more weight. Once you realize that what you've been working with is pretty easy, you could throw in a few more reps. Maybe you could go a bit slower through the movement. All of this is just bringing in some new stimulus, but it doesn't mean you have to dramatically alter things. And some of the experts I spoke with told me they've been doing the same kind of workout, these same foundational movements for many years, and that's fine.

Marielle Segarra (10:26)

Okay. And they can lift cars.

Will Stone (10:30)

You know, I'll follow up on that.

Marielle Segarra (10:32)

Okay, got it. We'll have more life kit after the break. There's an old joke about how you don't want to skip leg day. I mean, usually it's like when you see somebody who has skinny little legs, and it's like, oh, bro's been skipping leg day. But I wonder, do we actually need a separate day to just work out our legs?

Will Stone (10:52)

Nope. You know, there are lots of ways to organize your workout routines. Some people like to do it piecemeal, focusing on the different muscle groups each day. This is called splits. But this can be time consuming. Like we've been discussing. There are a handful of these bigger compound movements called multi joint exercises that you can prioritize. And you can do both upper and lower body in one workout if you want to be efficient. So if you're going to the gym, say, twice a week, the evidence supports doing actually some lower body training on both days, whereas that may not be as necessary to prioritize for the upper body. And this can be for legs, a pushing movement, like a squat, a lunge, or one of those leg press machines. You see, it can be a pulling movement like a deadlift. There are lots of variations on the deadlift or machine that you can do a hamstring curl on. Those are like the foundational movements. If you want something extra, you can throw in an exercise for your calves because those don't get targeted as much. But really that's enough. And you can do that twice a week if you want.

Marielle Segarra (11:56)

If folks are just starting out with strength training, we talked about them going once a week, maybe twice a week if they can fit it in. Is there a point where strength training becomes counterproductive, where you're going too much?

Will Stone (12:12)

You know, it's pretty hard to reach that point. I would say it becomes counterproductive if you are really sore or you're so tired that you start skipping the workouts, or you just feel wiped in the gym, you don't have energy to push yourself. That's when you really need to reign things in. There is a dose response. This wet towel we talked about. And, you know, if your body feels up for it, you can go four or five times a week. But Stuart Phillips and others told me, you know, once you get above three times it really for most of us it's kind of diminishing returns and you don't need to do that to see the benefits that most people are concerned about.

Marielle Segarra (12:50)

Okay, what does recovery from strength training look like?

Will Stone (12:55)

Well, it's great to take some rest days. This is when your body is actually building up new muscle. And the advice here, some of it's obvious. Sleep, hydration, nutrition. You do need to get enough protein if you're doing resistance training regularly, especially if you're older. There are lots of things people do for recovery in addition, right? Stretching, foam, rolling, massage, heat, active recovery, like light cardio. Some of these have a bit more data behind them than others. Heat is one of them that can be maybe more helpful. But broadly speaking, there's not great evidence any of these make a big difference when you look at the objective measures of recovery. And this is what Jonathan Peake told me. He studies post exercise recovery at Queensland University of Technology in Australia. But he says all of these can change how sore you feel in the moment, which is more subjective but obviously still a big deal. They're not going to be harmful in any way and I think if they allow you to reduce that muscle soreness and get back to the gym within the next two or three days, that's going to be a good thing. So it's kind of like a choose your own adventure here. You do want to make sure you keep moving around like cardio, yoga, foam rolling. Those are my go tos. There are a few things that peak emphasize you want to avoid and one is taking anti inflammatory medication like ibuprofen. This can be counterproductive because this inflammatory response in your muscles is actually involved in muscle growth. So you don't want to tamp that down too much. There's also evidence that cold plunges, ice baths can affect muscle growth. Maybe not a huge amount, but it's something to avoid at least doing it too often or right after working out. And then alcohol, no surprise, isn't great for growing muscle peak. Says a beer or a glass of wine here and there, probably not a big deal, but drinking a lot or every day, you know, can set you back.

Marielle Segarra (14:46)

So like I mentioned at the top of this episode, you've been reporting about this topic for a special Life Kit newsletter series that people can sign up for. What else can folks look forward to in the newsletter?

Will Stone (14:59)

Yeah, they can expect really a step by step guide on how to get started with resistance training, whether that's in a gym or at their home. And we also start with why this is so important for everybody. The goal here is really to give some of the key principles so people understand what matters based on the actual studies that have been done. I spoke with some of the leading experts in the world and focused on the big takeaways. We also throw in a fun challenge involving body weight exercises, plus some tips about how to make this a long term habit that sticks. And I think a recurring theme is that none of this needs to be very complicated or expensive unless you want it to be. By the end. I think people will feel empowered to make this work for them. And if they want to find a class, do this in a gym. Find a workout buddy. There are a lot of options out there.

Marielle Segarra (15:48)

Will, thank you for doing this.

Will Stone (15:50)

Thank you.

Marielle Segarra (15:52)

To sign UP for Life Kit's guide to building strength, go to npr.org stronger. You'll also find a link in the show notes of this episode. All right, time for a recap. You don't need to lift heavy to see big results with strength training. You don't need to spend hours at the gym every week to make progress. Once or maybe twice a week for 30 to 45 minutes a session will work just fine. You don't need to be sore all the time to prove that the training is working. You don't need to dramatically change up your workouts when things start to get easier. You could just add more weight, do a few more reps, or move through the exercises a little slower. You don't need a separate day to work out your legs, although it is important to do lower body training. And when it comes to recovery, heat can help. And it's not a bad idea to avoid alcohol too, especially if you want to see the max results. And taking a break from alcohol is good for you anyway, so why not try it? All right, that's our show. This episode of Life Kit was produced by Sylvie Douglas. Our visuals editor is Beck Harlan and our digital editor is Malika Garib. Megan Kane is our senior supervising editor and Beth Donovan is our executive producer. Our production team also includes Andy Tagle, Claire Marie Schneider, Lennon Sherburne and Margaret Serena Know. Engineering support comes from Kwesi Lee. Fact checking by Tyler Jones I'm Mariel Segarra. Thanks for listening.