Carrie Leibowitz (2:41)

This is a place with a really extreme winter that's very long and very dark and very cold. How is it that they're not depressed when I feel like winter in New Jersey is depressing?

Marielle Segarra (2:53)

Since then Carrie's research has taken her all over the world to places that have long cold winters. Copenhagen, Reykjavik, the Isle of Lewis in Scotland, Yamagata, Japan. And she wrote a book called how to Winter harness your mindset to thrive on cold, dark or difficult days. It's filled with something we love here at Life Kit Practical tips. In this episode, I talk to Kerri about what we can do to prepare for winter. Enjoy it and really give it a fair shake. Because yeah, it can be cold and.

Carrie Leibowitz (3:23)

Uncomfortable and dark and it can be cozy and magical and refreshing. And what we sort of orient to and highlight and talk about makes it more real for us.

Marielle Segarra (3:41)

As always, it's up to you what you focus on.

Sponsor Announcer (3:49)

Support comes from our 2025 lead sponsor of Life Kit, Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. This message comes from Capital One. Say hello to stress free subscription management. Easily track, block or cancel recurring charges right from the Capital One mobile app. Simple as that. Learn more@capitalone.com subscriptions terms and conditions apply.

Capital One / Sponsor Announcer (4:31)

This message comes from Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center. At Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer center, they know that a cancer diagnosis touches more than one life. It touches entire families. Make a gift to MSK in honor or in memory of someone you love. Your donation fuels groundbreaking research and compassionate care for patients and their families all over the world. Honor their legacy. Give hope to others. Your impact can be doubled for a limited time. Donate now@msk.org honor2x.

Marielle Segarra (5:04)

Carrie, you've done research in a bunch of places that have long cold winters, but where people also seem to have more positive attitudes towards winter than you've seen on the Jersey Shore or in the States. Why do you think that is?

Carrie Leibowitz (5:17)

Well, I think there's a lot of reasons. I think one is if you live somewhere where the winter is really extreme, right? So if you're in the Nordics, right? I'm thinking Denmark and Finland and Norway and Iceland, you know, all of which are places that I went as part of researching my book, you have no choice but to adapt to the winter, right? When you have such an extreme change between seasons, especially from light to dark, summer to winter, it's obvious that you need to adjust your behavior and adapt the way that you're living according to what season it is. And I actually think that this adaptation is really healthy and really useful.

Marielle Segarra (6:09)

Yeah. And to take this even a step further, you talk in the book about how the natural world behaves during winter, that basically it's a time for slowing down, for rest, for recuperation and reflection and that, that, you know, animals will hibernate or they'll go into, is it torpor?

Carrie Leibowitz (6:27)

Torpor, yeah.

Marielle Segarra (6:28)

A hibernation like state associated with decreased heart rate and metabolism, which allows animals to exist in a near coma for hours, days or weeks at a time. But yet we as humans don't think that those patterns apply to us.

Carrie Leibowitz (6:42)

Yeah, it's so funny because, like, I have friends who know what I study and you know, after the clocks change in November, they'll say things to me like, ugh, I've just been so tired lately, I don't know what, what's wrong with me? And I'm like, there's nothing wrong with you. You're a living being on a planet with a climate, you know, and if you look at every other living thing on earth, plant or animal, they are all changing their behavior in winter in some way, Right. They're either migrating or hibernating or they're slowing down, they're shedding their leaves, they're storing up their energy for spring. And yet I think our sort of modern societies and modern conveniences have convinced us that it's a personal or moral failure if we want to slow down in the winter, if we feel less able to maintain the same schedule 365 days a year.

Marielle Segarra (7:43)

So takeaway one, acknowledge winter for what it is, at least in the natural world. A time to rest, to restore and to move slower. Stop trying to fight it and allow yourself to hibernate. Some suggestions from the book. If you don't currently observe the Sabbath, setting aside one day to rest, do that in winter, one day a week. You set the terms. It could be no email, no phones, no logistics discussions, whatever you want. You could also take a family nap where you stay in your PJs, make a pillow fort, watch movies and embrace the slumber party vibes for a day. And let yourself take longer with everyday tasks. Slower meals, slower walks, longer bath times. I mean, seriously, where are you going anyway? It's freezing outside. One of the things I like about the book is that it blends your research with really practical suggestions for how people can reconsider winter. One that you have as a start is when winter begins. Get ready, right? Set your house up. Make a list of five things that you're Looking forward to about the season. What would be on your list?

Carrie Leibowitz (8:53)

So on my list is always to first break out the candles that I put away in the summer. Lighting candles, it's such a cliche winter advice, right? Like, it's almost. It sounds so fluffy and meaningless. But I really think when you light candles with the intention of embracing and celebrating the darkness, it actually has a profound impact on your experience and changes the meaning of winter darkness.

Marielle Segarra (9:24)

This is takeaway 2. Get ready for winter. The season is transitioning and so should you. This is the time to bring your winter clothes to the front of your closet. All those cozy sweaters and fuzzy socks, all those. Also break out the candles and the string lights. Stock up on tea and hot chocolate. Make a soup the first day the temperature drops. Get out the thick curtains and flannel sheets. Basically prepare your nest.

Carrie Leibowitz (9:47)

I also really like to change my diet seasonally as much as I can. So I switch from a cold breakfast in the summer to a warm breakfast in the winter and I switch from iced coffee to hot coffee or tea that I drink all day long. So all of these things are sort of. They're very practical and they help me have the physical things that I need to be comfortable in the winter. And it also sort of gets me into winter mode. They reorient my attention from the negative things about the cold and the dark and the wet, the. To the things that I enjoy when the temperature drops and it's raining out all the time.

Marielle Segarra (10:38)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you talk in the book about how research shows that the details we pay attention to about winter and how we describe the season to other people can change our experience entirely.

Carrie Leibowitz (10:50)

Yes. And there's so much research that shows that our mindsets matter, that our mindsets impact our physical functioning, our emotional well being, how we move throughout the world, our physiology. And a lot of the times I think these things get presented as if they're magic. Right. Like, I adopt the mindset that winter is wonderful and then magically, all of a sudden, like, I feel better and I'm happier and I'm healthier and I'm better looking and like, you know, all of these things. But really when you have the mindset that winter is wonderful, you are more likely to notice and focus on the things that you enjoy about the season. Right. The way that going for an evening walk in the winter makes you feel really refreshed and you come in and you sort of feel awake but calm and ready for bed. Or the way that, you know, the sort of indirect light of Winter is really beautiful and is actually extremely well suited for cozy activities like, you know, reading or doing art or baking or writing or whatever creative pursuits you enjoy.

Marielle Segarra (12:03)

Takeaway 3. Notice the good things about winter do you want to live in a frozen hellscape or a winter wonderland? It's kind of up to you. When you have negative thoughts about winter, ask yourself if you're exaggerating at all and if noticing the positive could help. Take a photo every day of something that brings you winter related delight. Notice how nature looks different in the winter and what you like about it. Maybe you love the smell of the rain or the way the snow crunches when you walk on it. Maybe you love the very particular blue color of the winter sky at dusk. Maybe when you walk out of a snowstorm into a restaurant, instead of saying it's so gross out there, you can say, it's so cozy in here.

Carrie Leibowitz (12:42)

Those little things then influence your mood, they influence your emotions and how you're feeling on a daily basis. They also then influence your motivation. Right. How likely are you to actually go outside and go for a walk, even if it's cold or drizzly? And then if you're more likely to go outside and be walking, we know that movement and fresh air and contact with nature are all natural antidepressants and mood boosters and of course are good for your physical health as well.

Marielle Segarra (13:14)

Yeah, and one way to do that, right, one way to reinforce this is to consider how we talk about winter.

Carrie Leibowitz (13:23)

Yeah. I think when we say things out loud, it makes them real, it directs our attention, it directs other people's attention, and it reinforces these narratives that we have about everything.

Marielle Segarra (13:38)

Yeah, let's talk about getting outside in the winter.

Carrie Leibowitz (13:41)

Let's.

Marielle Segarra (13:42)

What do you need to make it enjoyable? And what can you do when you're outside to really lean into it?

Carrie Leibowitz (13:51)

So in Scandinavia, in Norway, they have this saying, there's no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothing. And I really learned how to dress for the winter when I was living in Norway. And now even when I'm home in New Jersey, I'm gonna be wearing my leggings underneath my jeans, I'm gonna be wearing layers on my top. I'm gonna be wearing waterproof outer shell, waterproof boots. You know, you wanna be warm enough. And I think that this is another place where living somewhere that is relatively mild in the winter does us a disservice because you think that you don't need it, but actually it still.

Marielle Segarra (14:33)

Takeaway.

Sponsor Announcer (14:33)

4.

Marielle Segarra (14:34)

Bundle up properly and get outside in the book Carrie talks about the Norwegian principle of Friedlufsliv. It translates to open air life. But she says, really, it's about finding freedom in an open air life. We can do that in winter by continuing to enjoy nature and move around outside, even when it's cold. She suggests an AW walk where you allow yourself to feel awesome or wonder and look at whatever it is. The trees, shops on your street, the snowy hill with fresh eyes.

Carrie Leibowitz (15:05)

If this is new for you, start small. Just take a walk around your neighborhood. Bring a thermos of tea or coffee. Go for 15 or 20 minutes, see how it feels. If there's a place that you like to walk in other seasons, so a park or by a river or by the beach, try going in the winter and experiencing it at that time of year. Right. What looks different, what sounds different, what smells different.

Marielle Segarra (15:32)

Yeah. You even say in the book, like, you can reclaim a summer love. So whether that's walking on the beach or even, you know, I was thinking about having a winter picnic at the park.

Carrie Leibowitz (15:43)

This is something that they do in Scandinavia and they really have the infrastructure for it. So if there's any parks near you that have fire pits or charcoal grills where you can really gather around and barbecue and eat hot foods and drink beverages, this is a very Scandinavian is to go out bundled in your winter layers, cook some hot dogs on the grill, drink some hot chocolate, be out for a few hours and really enjoy the cold winter weather.

Marielle Segarra (16:12)

Yeah, you know, I actually like sometimes the harshness too, of the cold air on my face, especially if I'm going for a moody walk where I'm listening to kind of sad or angry or intense music. And then the cold air just heightens it.

Sponsor Announcer (16:30)

Right.

Marielle Segarra (16:31)

Really, I'm in a vibe.

Carrie Leibowitz (16:33)

It's totally a vibe. And I think it's that it's a freshness, you know, and it also, like, makes you feel a little bit tough. And I. I don't know, I feel a little bit more equipped to tackle other things in my life. And I feel like it sort of raises my confidence. It helps us see that we don't have to be limited by winter because we can get out and enjoy ourselves.

Marielle Segarra (17:09)

We'll have more life Kit in a moment.

Capital One / Sponsor Announcer (17:24)

This message comes from Apple Card. Apple Card members can earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases wherever they shop. This means you could be earning daily cash on just about anything, like a slice of pizza or a latte from the corner coffee shop. Apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app to see your credit limit. Offer in minutes subject to credit approval, Apple card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and more@applecard.com this message comes from NPR sponsor Adobe introducing the all new Adobe Acrobat studio. Now with AI powered PDF spaces. Need to turn 100 pages of market research into 5 insights with the Click templates for a sales proposal that'll close that deal or an AI specialist to tailor the tone of your market report. You can do all that with the all new Adobe Acrobat Studio. Learn more@adobe.com do that with Acrobat this message comes from ServiceNow people should do the creative work they actually want to do, not boring, busy work. Now with AI agents built into the ServiceNow platform, you can automate millions of repetitive tasks in every corner of your business, it, HR and more so your people can focus on the work that they want to do. That's putting AI agents to work for people. It's your turn. Get started@servicenow.com AI Agents this message comes.

Sponsor Announcer (18:50)

From Cachava Sometimes people stock their fridge with good intentions only to have their future self sacrifice. Nutrition for convenience, keep your body and mind nourished with whole body meal shakes from cachava. It's got 25 grams of protein, 6 grams of fiber, greens and so much more, but it actually tastes delicious. Try one of Caciava's indulgent flavors today. Shop now through December 2nd. To get 30% off your first purchase of two or more bags, go to kachava.com and use code NPR.

Marielle Segarra (19:24)

Okay, so now let's bring it back inside. Okay, tell me about the concept of Big Light Off.

Carrie Leibowitz (19:32)

So Big Light off is something that my husband and I talk about. I mean, it's not a totally original idea, but, you know, we've given it our own special name of Big Light off, which is no big overhead headlights on in the darkness of winter especially. And this is something that you'll see throughout Scandinavia. They love lamps and candles and soft light. And I think the thing about using little lights, so lamps or twinkly lights or candles is that the darkness is sort of friendly and there's not such a big contrast with the outside. And I think, you know, for me, this concept of Big Light off is really about working with the darkness, right? What is the vibe that you can create in winter because the sun sets earlier? How can you have this sort of moody, cozy atmosphere? It can feel very intimate. You know, it's sort of like romantic. It's romantic. The conversations are different. I think people open up differently. There's some research showing that darkness enhances creativity because it sort of gets rid of our usual inhibitions and constraints. And so that can be really special to winter.

Marielle Segarra (21:04)

Takeaway 5. Accept the darkness. Allow the darkness. Become one with the darkness. And think about what the darkness is facilitating for you, whether that's rest or the time and mental space to finally write that book or learn woodworking or reconnect with your partner. It feels like winter, and it getting darker earlier is giving me the opportunity to do simpler things and have them be enough. Like, it doesn't have to be a really elaborate activity. It doesn't even have to be outside of my house. It's almost like permission to rest and permission to just do slow hobbies.

Carrie Leibowitz (21:51)

Yes. And I think our default when we struggle with winter is focusing on the things that we can't do or the things that feel harder in winter or in the darkness. But I think the corollary to that is this idea that there's more space for other things. Right. Reading that stack of books or, you know, watching all the TV shows on your list, or knitting or doing watercolor or baking or cooking elaborate dinners or whatever it is. And I think what you talk about of permission is really valuable. This permission to slow down, this permission to do less, this permission to live in a different way that feels more aligned with the season. That permission is, I think, the difference between I'm staying home because I'm depressed and I'm staying home because this is my time of year to slow down.

Marielle Segarra (22:49)

Yeah. You know, it's funny. Yesterday I got my comforter out of the dryer, and I just disappeared into it. I. I took it out of the laundry basket on the couch, and I just like, wrapped it all around me like I was a. Like a little pill bug or something.

Capital One / Sponsor Announcer (23:08)

Yeah.

Carrie Leibowitz (23:08)

Yeah. Burrito.

Marielle Segarra (23:10)

And it was the best. It was just like I was, like, giggling to myself inside of this comforter. Like, I was. I spent a good five minutes just inside the comforter vibing. Yeah.

Carrie Leibowitz (23:26)

And I think winter is a chance to reconnect with those sort of small pleasures, those little cozy delights. Right. If you can spend five minutes giggling because you're wrapped up like a pill bug in the comforter from the dryer, you're gonna have a good life. You know what I mean?

Marielle Segarra (23:47)

And it's something you can bring with you into the rest of the year. Because, you know, in the summer, it's easy to get distracted by everything that's available to you. But sometimes the greatest pleasure is just, like having a really ripe peach, you know.

Carrie Leibowitz (24:01)

Totally. I also think that there are practices that help us in all seasons of life and in all difficult times. Right. We're all at some point in our lives going to be sick, going to be grieving, where we're gonna have a forced slowdown. And so if you've practiced that seasonally every year, maybe you're better able to meet that head on and take that slow season that you need when it arrives.

Marielle Segarra (24:32)

Yeah. Well, Kerri, thank you so much. I got a lot out of the book. I really am excited to do some of this stuff this winter.

Carrie Leibowitz (24:40)

Thank you. I mean, it was really fun getting to talk with you about it.

Marielle Segarra (24:44)

All right, time for a recap. Takeaway 1 Acknowledge winter for what it is, at least in the natural world, a time to rest and restore and move slower. Stop trying to fight it and allow yourself to hibernate. Takeaway 2 Prepare for winter. Bring out the flannel sheets and the big comforters and wool sweaters. Stock up on tea and candles and whatever makes you feel cozy. Takeaway 3 Notice the good things about winter. Take photos of things that bring you winter related joy. Notice how nature looks different in the winter and what you like about it. Be specific. Takeaway 4 Bundle up and get yourself outside. Go on a bike ride or an awe walk. Reclaim an activity that you love to do during the summer, but winterize it and Takeaway 5 become one with the darkness and acknowledge the many opportunities it brings. For more Life Kit, check out our other episodes. There's one about how to exercise in the cold and another about how to find a hobby. You can find those@npr.org LifeKit and if you love Life Kit and want even more, subscribe to our newsletter@npr.org Life K Life Kit Newsletter Also, we love hearing from you, so if you have episode ideas or feedback you want to share, email us@lifekitpr.org this episode of Life Kit was produced by Bria Suggs. Our visuals editor is Beck Harlan and our digital editor is Malika Gharib. Megan Kane is our senior Supervising editor and Beth Donovan is our Executive producer. Our production team also includes Andy Taegle, Claire Marie Schneider, Margaret Serino and Sylvie Douglas. Engineering support comes from Carly Strange and David Greenberg. I'm Marielle Segarra. Thank you for listening.

Sponsor Announcer (26:28)

This message comes from Capital One with the Capital One Saver card. Earn unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment. Capital One what's in your wallet? Terms apply. Details@capitalone.com this message comes from Capital One.

Capital One / Sponsor Announcer (26:45)

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.combank for details. Capital One NA Member FDIC this message comes from Instacart.

Sponsor Announcer (27:00)

It's Sunday, 5pm you had a non stop weekend. You're running on empty and so is your fridge. You're in the trenches of the Sunday scaries. You don't have it in you to go to the store, but this is your reminder you don't have to. You can get everything you need delivered through Instacart so that you can get what you really need. More time to do whatever you want. Instacart for one less Sunday Scary.