How to embrace the mess and teach your kids to cook

Summary

Life Kit Podcast Summary: "How to Embrace the Mess and Teach Your Kids to Cook"

Release Date: July 24, 2025
Host: Marielle Segarra
Guest: David Neifeld, Professional Chef and Author

---

Introduction and Purpose

In the episode titled "How to Embrace the Mess and Teach Your Kids to Cook," NPR's Life Kit host Marielle Segarra explores the enriching experience of involving children in the kitchen. Through an engaging conversation with professional chef David Neifeld, the episode delves into the benefits, challenges, and practical strategies of cooking with kids across different ages.

Embracing the Mess in the Kitchen

Marielle sets the stage by painting a relatable scenario: juggling meal preparations while managing children's distractions. She introduces David Neifeld, whose new cookbook focuses on family-friendly recipes designed to foster togetherness in the kitchen rather than isolating family members in separate rooms.

David Neifeld emphasizes the cookbook's essence:
"For me, the essence of the book is about how to reconnect with our families while everybody is in separate rooms doing separate things on separate devices. You know, the kitchen can be the great unifier." (01:07)

Neifeld advocates embracing the inevitable mess that comes with cooking alongside children. He shares personal anecdotes, including his first attempt at frying chicken as a child, which turned out imperfect but fostered a supportive family environment.

David Neifeld:
"As parents, we need to remember that we are always trying to be like, hey, I don't want a big mess... A little bit of a mess is totally worth the price of admission to that time spent with your child." (02:35)

Involving Kids in Cooking at Various Ages

The dialogue progresses to practical advice on engaging children in cooking, tailored to their developmental stages. Neifeld categorizes kitchen activities based on risk levels, ensuring safety while promoting skill-building.

1. Level One Risk (No Potential for Ouchies):

   • Activities like picking herbs, measuring ingredients, and using whisks involve minimal risk.

   David Neifeld:
   "Level one risk is like, no potential for ouchies... Maybe the worst thing that happens is a little bit of something spills out onto the counter or the floor." (09:06)

2. Level Two Risk (Controlled Potential for Minor Injuries):

   • Introducing tools like peelers and teaching children to stir pots require supervision but are manageable.

3. Level Three Risk (Higher Potential for Accidents):

   • More advanced tasks such as using mixers or pulling items from the oven are appropriate for older children with adequate supervision.

Neifeld shares examples of age-appropriate tasks, from stirring ingredients with toddlers to teaching teenagers how to chop vegetables safely.

Managing Time and Choosing Recipes Wisely

Addressing the logistical aspect of family cooking, Neifeld advises on selecting recipes that fit the family's schedule and skill level. He suggests batch cooking during weekends to streamline weeknight dinners, ensuring that meal preparation doesn't become a source of stress.

David Neifeld:
"If you can imagine letting an eight or nine year old fry, wow... So the chicken came out raw and my mom was really, really nice about it and just took it and threw it in the oven. And then everyone loved it afterwards." (05:03)

Developing Kids' Palates and Confidence

A significant portion of the discussion centers on cultivating adventurous eating habits in children. Neifeld encourages parents to gradually introduce new flavors and spices, allowing children's palates to evolve naturally over time.

David Neifeld:
"I have been big on developing spice in my daughter's palate... you start adding a little bit, just the tiniest amount, and then you just get to a point where they start to taste it and they start to crave it too." (15:09)

He underscores the importance of building confidence in the kitchen, advocating for parents to lead by example and engage in the cooking process without striving for perfection.

The Role of Fathers in the Kitchen

Neifeld touches upon a critical and often overlooked aspect: encouraging fathers to take an active role in family cooking. He highlights the lack of resources and societal messaging that typically sidelines dads from kitchen activities.

David Neifeld:
"We don't talk to dads in the same way of saying, hey, let me tell you how you need to prepare the home... So I find a whole generation of men who really do want to be involved... Yet they come into the space with a very little messaging." (17:48)

He advocates for more inclusive resources and messaging to empower fathers to engage confidently in cooking and other family-oriented tasks.

Key Takeaways

1. Don’t Let Perfect Be the Enemy of Good:
   Embrace imperfections in the kitchen as learning opportunities. Allow kids to participate at any age, gaining confidence and skills through hands-on experience.

2. Embrace the Mess, Choose Projects Wisely:
   Understand that cooking with kids will be messy. Select recipes that match your time constraints and skill level, and involve children in various aspects of meal preparation to foster connection.

3. Cooking is About Connection:
   Focus on the relational aspect of cooking together rather than just the end meal. Shared kitchen experiences build stronger family bonds and encourage adventurous eating.

Conclusion

The episode beautifully encapsulates the essence of family cooking as a bonding experience. By involving children in the kitchen, parents not only teach valuable life skills but also create lasting memories and strengthen familial relationships. David Neifeld's insights offer a roadmap for parents to navigate the delightful chaos of cooking with kids, turning mealtime into an opportunity for growth, connection, and fun.

For more episodes and tips on family life, visit npr.org Lifekit.

---

Note: Timestamps correspond to specific moments in the transcript for reference.

Transcript

[Progressive Insurance]

This message comes from Progressive Insurance and the name your price tool. It helps you find car insurance options in your budget. Try it [e-mail], progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match, limited by state law. Not available in all states.

[Marielle Segarra]

You're listening to Life Kit from npr. Hey, it's Marielle. Okay, picture this. You're in the kitchen making chicken cutlets, and you've got a kid in the house. You, your child, or your niece or nephew, your grandkid. And they come up to you while you're wrist deep in egg, raw chicken, and breadcrumbs, and say something like, you want to look at my drawing? Or you want to play catch? Or I'm hungry, or can I watch bluey? Now, do you tell them to go in the other room and play, or do you get them involved? As any adult who takes care of a child knows, getting food on the table is a big part of the job. And often while we're doing that, the kids are in the other room waiting to eat. That's something professional chef David Neifeld is trying to change with his cookbook. Dad, what's for dinner?

[David Neifeld]

For me, what the essence of the book is is about how to reconnect with our families while everybody is in separate rooms doing separate things on separate devices. You know, the kitchen can be the great unifier.

[Marielle Segarra]

David could have written a very different cookbook. He's worked in a kitchen for nearly three decades, has cooked in some of the finest fine dining restaurants in the world, and opened Que Fico in the Bay Area, which was listed as one of the best new restaurants in America when it opened in 2018. But what David, who as a young daughter really wanted to talk about was what people eat at home.

[David Neifeld]

And that was in the forefront of my mind because I had a child that I was raising, and, you know, my daughter's time became very valuable to me.

[Marielle Segarra]

David's new cookbook is full of family friendly recipes. And the point is to bring everyone together to enjoy a meal, but also to embrace the process of making one, spills and all.

[David Neifeld]

As parents, we need to remember that we are always trying to be like, hey, I don't want a big mess, or hey, God forbid, if they break an egg and a shell goes into the bowl, okay, so what? Then you fish the shell out, then you sweep up the flour, then you wipe up the chocolate. It's not the biggest deal in the world. A little bit of a mess is totally worth the price of admission to that time spent with your child. Together, building their confidence, building their palate, and building that relationship between the both of you. Recognizing that doing stuff together is really the fulfilling part. It's the satisfying part.

[Marielle Segarra]

On this episode of Life Kit reporter Andy Tagle talks with David about the delights and difficulties of making meals with your kids at any age, how to set your family up for successful weeknight dinners, and why you don't have to shy away from spices on your kid's plate.

[Andy Taegel]

This Message comes from Capital One with the Capital One Saver Card. Earn unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment Capital One what's in your wallet? Terms apply [e-mail] this message comes from Schwab at Schwab. How you invest is your choice, not theirs. That's why when it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices. You can invest and trade on your own, plus get advice and more comprehensive wealth solutions to help meet your unique needs. With award winning service, low costs and transparent advice, you can manage your wealth your way at Schwab. Visit schwab.com to learn more. This message comes from NPR sponsor US bank, which is with US Bank Business Essentials. You get more than just a bank. You get a dedicated partner that provides you a powerful combo of checking and card payment processing with quick access to the money you've earned, proving that there is nothing as powerful as the power of us. Visit usbank.com today to learn more. Member FDIC Copyright 2025 US Bank Support.

[Progressive Insurance]

For this podcast and the following message come from Indeed. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. Indeed Sponsored Jobs helps you stand out. According to INDEED data, Sponsored Jobs posted directly on indeed have 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com LifeKit terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. This message comes from the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur foundation recognizing extraordinarily creative individuals with a track record of excellence. More information on this year's MacArthur Fellows [e-mail].

[Listener/Parent]

My personal struggle is that I have very little confidence in the kitchen and even less confidence about helping my small child navigate the kitchen. So thoughts to start for non cooks like me.

[David Neifeld]

So you know, I have certain isms that people who who are in my life kind of make fun of me for eventually, right? Because you say something enough, they kind of like roll their eyes in the back of their head. But one of the ones that I often say is like, don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Don't wait for everything to be perfect to start. Sometimes you just need to get going. And don't be afraid of burning the thing. Don't be afraid of undercooking the thing. Overcooking the thing. The first time I cooked for my entire family, I think I was about like 8 or 9 and I cooked fried chicken. If you can imagine letting an eight or nine year old fry, wow. You know what I always say to people, it was the 90s and so I fried chicken for my family and I made mashed potatoes because I had watched my aunt's boyfriend do the same thing. And it was spectacular. And I didn't even know you could have fried chicken outside of kfc. And I was like, this is incredible. I'm going to recreate this for my family. So the chicken came out raw and my mom was really, really nice about it and just took it and threw it in the oven. And then everyone loved it afterwards. And then no big deal, right? The truth is, right, like, as long as everybody is in, you know, good spirits and just kind of like has a kind of funny bone about it, like you can get through even the toughest meals. But the thing that you have to remember is like, set achievable bars for the time that you're doing it in. If you are going to attempt to do something that is fairly ambitious for you, don't do it with the backdrop of I need to get the kids in bed in 45 minutes to an hour. And. And if this all goes wrong, the whole night is haywire. Right? You do that on a Saturday or a Sunday or a summer day where there's just more time to play around and it's all good. If the kids end up a little bit late in bed, if the routine gets thrown off, then it's fine.

[Listener/Parent]

Can you walk us through some ways to start getting your kids involved and then, you know, graduating through the levels? What might that look like?

[David Neifeld]

Yeah, sure. So the thing is, you know, my daughter at almost at the age of two, was helping me stir things on the stove. For me, allowing your kids to do dangerous things carefully is so crucial to their development and their confidence in life. As parents, we want to eliminate anything dangerous from their path, but that's not the way life works. Right. And so they need to be able to do certain dangerous things in front of you. And what I would do when she was like two or two and a half and she was able to kind of Communicate came back to me as she would be stirring something. I would say, hey, point to the thing you cannot touch here. And she would point to the metal part of the pan. I'd say, point to the thing you can't touch. She would point to the wooden spoon and I would say, what happens if you touch this? And she'd say, ouchie. Right. Okay, good. So she gets it now. I'm not walking away from her at this point stirring this thing. I'm watching her and letting her develop these things. Now, when you've got a super young kid, you know, at 2 years old, I think that's the perfect time for them to do things. Like we used to make scrambled eggs with cheese in them. And so I would GR the cheese and then she would take the cheese and she put it in the pan and then I would help stir. And then we graduated to. She would stir and then we graduated to, you know, a little bit older. She would grate the cheese. Right. Even though you have to be very careful on the grater to make sure that the block of cheese is big enough to where their fingers aren't put near the grater.

[Listener/Parent]

So takeaway one, don't let perfect be the enemy of good. If you're not great in the kitchen, pick easy to make yummy looking meals. You can get excited about and learn with your kid as you go. And if you want more inspiration on just how to do that, we actually have a whole episode on how to get into cooking when you're not into cooking. To make sure you're setting up your little ones for success, calibrate for their age or level of coordination. There are lots of tools out there that can assist with basic access and safety. Things like toddler towers that can help them reach the kitchen counter, Kid friendly knives. From there, David splits up risk into three basic categories.

[David Neifeld]

Level one risk is like, no, no potential for ouchies. Right. No potential for pain. And so what that is is you're picking basil, you're picking parsley, you're picking herbs, you're helping measuring things into teaspoons and cups and you're using a whisk and in a bowl to help make cake and things like that. Like all of those things have zero risk. And maybe the worst thing that happens is a little bit of something spills out onto the counter or the floor. Right. But there's no harm.

[Listener/Parent]

Mess, no harm. Got it.

[David Neifeld]

Yeah. So the second level of risk is like, we are just starting to introduce things that could create a very little ouchy but they are under control, right? So you have a peeler, you have stirring a pot of, you know, soup for you. You really just need to be cognizant of what your kitchen setup is, how tall your kid is, right. Like, because, you know, it's like a little bit like a roller coaster ride. If your kid is not this high, right. No matter what age they are, like sometimes that becomes a little dangerous. Also, you have to recognize your own kids coordination. Some kids are different level of dexterity. The third one, that's when they can do things like they can help use the mixer. They know not to put their hands in the mixer when it's moving. They can pull things out of the oven and put them in the oven. We are cutting things that, you know, maybe are not overly difficult, right? Like I probably wouldn't give even our 14 year old a sharp knife and tell him like, hey, I want you to cut this butternut squash, right? Because it's a very hard vegetable to cut. But what I would say is peel the onions and I want you to chop them up. Which I, by the way, I always say this. I think onions and garlic are a terrific prep project for a teenager because it teaches them humility. And so that's the 1, 2, 3 kind of risk category. And once you graduate from like risk category three, you're off and flying. You're ready to do whatever you need to do.

[Listener/Parent]

When you're cooking with kids, you just have to accept that there is going to be mess. Like, I'm thinking about the time I wanted to do pizza night with my son and I didn't like portion out the sauces beforehand. Then I, you know, I was like, he's, he could probably do this, he could probably pour it out and instead it was like sauce all over. So I'm thinking just like any tips for how to accept mess and not, you know, lose the threat of your recipe or your whole night, don't let.

[David Neifeld]

That be the thing that stops you from your next pizza night. You did it. You learned. Did the world end? Did anyone die? The thing is, now what are you going to do next time your son is going to have a pre portioned thing of sauce and you're going to say, great, put this on the sauce. And then you're going to also be hyper explicit. Put this on the sauce, Put it right in the middle. Maybe you might guide their hand to start for a few times and not just let them, you know, freewheel it. These are all things you're going to learn through the process. You have to accept there is a little bit of risk here. It's fine. So he poured the sauce all over the pizza. Okay? Accept your L, move on to the next pizza night. This is just a fact of life that when we're going through this, life is not tidy. Life is not perfect. You just gotta be willing to accept that sometimes there's gonna be a mess, right? Might be the title of my next book, Sometimes There's a mess. Right? And that's just what it is. Twenty years down the line, what would have been a better story? That your kid threw the pizza sauce all over the place and now it's a hilarious memory? Or is it? Hey, they nailed it. It was perfect. I had a pizza, I forgot about it the next day. Like there are some days where you're like, hey, I need that frozen bag of ragu that I made two months ago that's in the freezer because I've got 20 minutes here and I've got to take a meeting after dinner. I'm not going to let perfect be the enemy of good here. I'm pulling out the bag, I'm going to defrost, I'm going to boil pasta, I'm going to get ragu into the pasta. And my way of getting my kids to contribute is I'm going to ask them to set the table. And then I'm going to ask them to clear their plates and bring them to the sink. And if they're old enough, I'm going to ask them to wash them too. That's going to be their contribution that night. Dinner is going to be done and dusted in 30 minutes. I'm going to be on to my meeting and I'm not going to feel like I failed or compromised.

[Listener/Parent]

Takeaway 2. Yes, you should embrace the mess, but also choose your projects wisely. Not every family dinner can or should be a five course meal. So consider your time before picking a recipe. And remember that it's okay to get your family involved in different ways, be it scrambling an egg or scrubbing the plates. After dinner, plan ahead as best you can. And remember, cooking together doesn't mean starting from scratch every night. What about grocery shopping? What about stocking your kitchen to have what you need for that inevitable question of what's for dinner? What are we going to do for this busy Wednesday night? Do you menu prep for the week and then shop for recipes? Do you have any suggestions or advice for how other parents can do this?

[David Neifeld]

My suggestion to you is that every Sunday, if Sunday is the day for you, maybe it's Saturday. Sit down and you talk to whoever your, your stakeholders are in the house, and then you talk about. You say, okay, great. Mondays is actually not that bad. So what we're gonna do is we're going to order a bunch of chicken, we're gonna marinate chicken, we're gonna grill a bunch of chicken, and then it's gonna be grilled chicken that we're gonna top with a little bit of pomodoro sauce and some melted cheese, and we're gonna have breadless chicken parm. But what I'm going to do is I'm going to make two times the batch of grilled chicken, and then next day I'm going to pack kids lunch, I'm going to do a grilled chicken sandwich or leftover grilled chicken parms for them, and they'll love that. And I'm going to take some of the grilled chicken that input the melted cheese on, and I'm going to put that on the leftover of the salad that I didn't dress. And I have my salad with my chicken for my next day. So each day is literally pun intended, feeding the next day.

[Listener/Parent]

There's so many lovely recipes in your book. Do you have a favorite go to that you'd care to share?

[David Neifeld]

I would say the one that brings me the most joy is when, you know, my daughter and I make chocolate cake together. It's definitely a little bit of a project, but having her make that cake with me, you know, like, she was so, like, in awe of its size and everything. And, and the entire process is so fun and delightful. And I find it to be such a cool experience for them to see starting from scratch, something that is so magnificent that you can make. And then I really love the idea of being one of those families where you walk into the kitchen and there's just a cake sitting there with like, you know, in. With a glass cloche on it. And it like, reminds me of kind of being like my own little mini version of Martha Stewart where you're like, oh, yeah. Like, you know, I just happen to walk into my kitchen, there's freshly baked cookies or cake or something like that. And I think that that's a really awesome thing to do. Now, obviously, this is not something you're gonna do all the time, but it is such a, like a mic drop moment in your kind of parenting relationship with your kids when you guys can achieve something so special like that. Another thing that I think really, really is exceptional here is, you know, things like the spicy rigatoni. You know, I have been big on developing spice in my daughter's palate, and I think the best way to do that, if you like spicy food and you want your kids to also enj from a young age, you just start adding a little bit, just the tiniest amount, and then you just, you get to a point where they start to taste it and they start to crave it too. Now, it takes time, right? Because the child's palate grows over time. And so I think recognizing that your kid's palate naturally is probably going to reject spicy things at first, but if you slowly start to develop it, they'll slowly start to develop a taste for it, finally.

[Listener/Parent]

Takeaway 3. Remember, cooking is about connection, not simply creating the perfect combination of proteins, vegetables, and carbohydrates, whatever you choose to eat. The more ownership a kid can take of a meal, the more excited they feel about what they eat, the easier it'll be to encourage adventurous eating. As David writes to parents in the book, kids are kids and their palates are both different and your responsibility to develop. Finally, before I let you go, David, I. I want to bring it back to the genesis of the book. I really like how you specifically reach out to fathers and share your personal experience as a single parent. I hadn't realized until I read your book how often cookbooks, family cookbooks, seem to default to a mother or mother figures point of view. Any last thoughts for us on how and why dads should claim space for themselves in the kitchen and beyond?

[David Neifeld]

I don't see enough messaging speaking to dad saying, hey, let's arm you with the things that you need, right? And even generationally, you're not getting your dad talking to you about that. Like, oh, son, come here, let me teach you about how I used to make this with whoever used to teach it to me. Now, I'm not saying that never happens, but it's certainly not the norm. And we don't talk to dads in the same way of saying, hey, let me tell you how you need to prepare the home. Let me tell you how you need to get your kid ready for school. Let me talk to you about how you need to braid your daughter's hair. Let me talk to you about, you know, so many of these different elements, right? So I find a whole generation of men who really do want to be involved. That is 100% their intention. Yet they come into the space with a very little messaging, with very little resources, and frankly, with a culture that's not gearing anything towards them. Right. And so once we kind of recognize that, hey, this is something we need to start optimizing more towards and recognizing that we really want to make sure that everyone gets to fully participate. We also have to change the way we talk about it because dads are more involved. Dads are taking a bigger role in their kids lives and we want to encourage that because it's super important for everyone and I think it also makes for happier families with less resentment and I think that that probably feels like common sense to most people.

[Listener/Parent]

Thank you for the encouragement and for the inspiration. David, it's really been a pleasure. Thanks for your time.

[David Neifeld]

It's been my pleasure. Thank you so much.

[Listener/Parent]

Okay, let's recap. Takeaway 1 Don't let perfect be the enemy of good in your family kitchen. It's okay to learn as you go and to get your kids involved at any age. Little Little ones can sprinkle spices and mix bowls. Young kids can stir things on a stove or form meatballs for pasta night. Teenagers can slice, dice and sear. Just show them the way. Takeaway 2 Things are gonna get messy. That might mean batch meals on weeknights and baking projects with the little ones on the weekends. Cooking is an opportunity for connection, not just sustenance. The more everyone partakes in the making, the more you'll enjoy the eating.

[Marielle Segarra]

That was reporter Andy Taegel talking to professional chef David Neefeld. For more Life Kit, check out our other episodes. We have one on how to save money at the grocery store and another on meal prep. You can find [e-mail] LifeKit and if you love Life Kit and want even more, subscribe to our [e-mail] lifekitnewsletter. Also, if you have episode ideas or feedback you want to share or you just want to say something nice to us, email [e-mail] this episode of Life Kit was produced by Claire Marie Schneider. Our visuals editor is Beck Harlan and our digital editor is Malika Gharib. Megan Kane is our senior supervising editor and Beth Donovan is our Executive producer. Our production team also includes Margaret Serino and Sylvie Douglas. Engineering support comes from David Greenberg. I'm Marielle Segarra. Thanks for listening.

[Andy Taegel]

This message comes from Strawberry Me. You've worked hard to get where you are, but what's next? Strawberry Me Career coaching helps professionals like you take the next big step with confidence by matching you with a certified career coach who understands your goals and challenges. This isn't just advice. It's a personalized, results driven approach to uncover hidden strengths, overcome obstacles, and accelerate your career growth. Visit Strawberry Me NPR to claim your $50 credit. This message comes from NPR sponsor Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Mattel and Gymshark. Get started with your own design studio. With hundreds of ready to use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store to match your brand's style. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling [e-mail] NPR.