How to keep old friends

Summary

Life Kit Podcast: How to Keep Old Friends
Host: Marielle Segarra | NPR | Release Date: May 19, 2025

In this insightful episode of NPR's Life Kit, host Marielle Segarra delves into the art of maintaining long-standing friendships. Titled "How to Keep Old Friends," the episode features a compelling conversation with Nina Badson, the host of the podcast Dear Conversations about Friendship. Together, they explore the nuances of sustaining friendships over time, the challenges that arise, and effective strategies to keep the bond strong.

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Defining Old Friends

Nina Badson begins by addressing what constitutes an "old friend." She explains that there isn't an exact timeline for when a friendship becomes old, but it often stems from enduring significant experiences together. For instance, enduring a challenging job situation or navigating serious personal hardships can cement a friendship's longevity.

Nina Badson [02:14]:
"There could be a job where you together had a really difficult boss... that experience or, you know, unfortunately, it happens that you maybe have cancer at the same time as somebody."

The Value of Old Friends

Marielle shares her personal appreciation for old friends, highlighting how they add richness to her life. Old friends are often the ones she can share deep laughs with and who remind her of her true self during both highs and lows.

Marielle Segarra [02:14]:
"My old friends bring so much richness to my life. They're the ones that I can do the ridiculous bit with, you know? And deep belly laugh in a way that I haven't since high school or college."

Challenges in Maintaining Long-Term Friendships

As life progresses, maintaining friendships can become challenging due to various factors such as busy schedules, physical distance, and personal changes. Marielle notes that relationships can suffer when people become busy, forget to reach out, or when both parties evolve in different directions.

Marielle Segarra [02:14]:
"...time can also do a number on relationships. We get busy, lose track of people, forget to text, keep rescheduling. We change and they change and suddenly we don't fit anymore."

Effort and Communication in Friendships

A central theme of the episode is the necessity of effort and effective communication to sustain friendships. Nina emphasizes that friendships require different types of effort from each person involved. Understanding and appreciating these differences can prevent misunderstandings and resentment.

Nina Badson [06:23]:
"People don't keep score, or they might keep score, but they check themselves on that. And the other one is they've learned to develop a benefit of the doubt that they take very seriously."

Marielle summarizes this by highlighting that friendships involve investing in relationships in diverse ways and communicating openly about one's needs.

Marielle Segarra [09:57]:
"All right, takeaway one is that friendships take effort, but the way you invest in relationships and show love might be different from the way your friend does."

Assuming Best Intentions

Nina introduces the concept of assuming the best intentions from friends. This approach fosters forgiveness and understanding, crucial elements in maintaining long-term friendships. She underscores the importance of humility in acknowledging that one doesn't know the full story behind a friend's actions.

Nina Badson [10:27]:
"Assuming the best means I don't know the whole story. So I'm going to assume there's some information I don't have."

This mindset helps in navigating disappointments and reinforces the value of giving friends the benefit of the doubt.

Marielle Segarra [11:29]:
"Takeaway 2 It helps to give your friends the benefit of the doubt and assume the best intentions."

Ways to Stay Connected

The conversation explores various methods to keep in touch with old friends, especially when schedules are hectic or distance is a factor. Nina advocates for flexible and low-pressure ways to maintain connections, such as:

• Voice Memos: Sharing voice messages can provide a more intimate and immediate form of communication without the need for real-time interaction.

  Nina Badson [12:51]:
  "I'm a voice memo evangelist... it's a very intimate thing. You're hearing the person's voice."

• Scheduled Calls and Video Chats: Regularly setting aside time for phone or video conversations can help keep the friendship active.

• Snail Mail: Sending letters or small packages can add a personal touch and show thoughtfulness.

Marielle reinforces these ideas by suggesting that conversations can delve into current thoughts and feelings rather than merely updating each other on life events.

Marielle Segarra [16:40]:
"When you catch up, consider diving right into whatever's on your mind that day, rather than running through a checklist of everything that's happened in your lives since you last spoke."

The Importance of In-Person Connection

While digital communication methods are valuable, Nina highlights the irreplaceable nature of in-person interactions. Meeting face-to-face, even if it requires traveling, can significantly strengthen the bond between old friends.

Nina Badson [17:14]:
"I think it is important... it is so completely different. And a really important piece of maintaining old friendships is changing the venue."

For those with geographically distant friends, Nina suggests finding ways to meet up occasionally or making virtual interactions as meaningful as possible.

Allowing Friends to Change

Friendships are dynamic, and both individuals often evolve over time. Nina discusses the importance of granting friends the space to change without judgment. Embracing these changes can prevent friendships from becoming stagnant or strained.

Nina Badson [18:29]:
"Allowing a friend to change is in the same category... there's not a lot of hope in the world if we have to keep all the same opinions and interests that we had from the time we were, you know, 10 years old."

When friends begin to treat each other based on old versions of themselves, Nina advises open and honest communication about the changes.

Nina Badson [20:08]:
"I would just be honest and say it's really hard for me to have made these changes in my life and I really just want your support."

Conclusion and Takeaways

Marielle concludes the episode by summarizing four key takeaways for maintaining old friendships:

1. Friendships Take Effort: Recognize that effort may look different depending on individual personalities and circumstances. Focus on the positive ways your friends show up rather than what they don't.

2. Assume Best Intentions: Give friends the benefit of the doubt and understand that lapses in communication are often not personal. Address any concerns through open dialogue.

3. Stay Connected in Various Ways: Utilize different methods to keep in touch, such as scheduling calls, sending voice memos, or exchanging letters. When catching up, focus on meaningful conversations rather than just updates.

4. Allow Friends to Change: Embrace and support your friends' growth and changes. Communicate openly about how these changes affect your relationship and work together to navigate them.

Marielle also encourages listeners to explore other Life Kit episodes on related topics, such as maintaining friendships after life changes like parenthood, and expressing appreciation towards friends.

Marielle Segarra [23:10]:
"Takeaway 4 allow your friends to change and support them as they go through life's many ups and downs. Just be there. Love them. Let them be who they are and who they're becoming."

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This episode of Life Kit was produced by Sam Yellowhorse Kessler, with contributions from Beck Harlan, Malika Garib, Megan Keane, Beth Donovan, and the production team including Andy Taegle, Claire Marie Schneider, Margaret Serino, and Sylvie Douglas. Engineering support was provided by Jimmy Keeley.

For more episodes and resources on navigating life's challenges, visit NPR Life Kit.

Transcript

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[Marielle Segarra]

You're listening to Life Kit from npr. Hey, it's Marielle. Recently, I interviewed Nina Badson, who hosts a podcast all about friendship. And I started our interview with. Well, it was kind of a setup. We played a game of this or that.

[Nina Badson]

So I'll say two options, and you say quick as you can, which is your favorite?

Okay.

All right. Chocolate or vanilla?

Chocolate.

Running or swimming?

Running. But I mean, barely.

[Marielle Segarra]

Either podcast or radio podcast.

[Nina Badson]

Old friends or new friends?

Oh, that's so hard. I love them both so much, and I think both are so important. But I guess for today. Today we're gonna say old friends. But I do wanna urge people that you are never too old to make new friends. Never. My mom just had her 80th birthday with tons of women there, and my mom had four new friends at this luncheon with tons of old friends. I mean, if that's not the best example, I don't know what is.

[Marielle Segarra]

Nina hosts the podcast Dear Conversations about Friendship, where she gives advice and talks to experts about making friends, keeping friends, and losing friends. And I love that she actually gave me a thoughtful response to this because it was sort of a trick question. There's a lot of value in having new friends. I know this. In this episode, though, we're talking about the old ones. There's no exact cutoff for when someone becomes an old friend, but Nina says it often happens after a long time or after you've been in the trenches together in some way.

[Nina Badson]

There could be a job where you together had a really difficult boss, let's say, and you're still friends ten years later, even though you both have different jobs, having had that experience or, you know, unfortunately, it happens that you maybe you have cancer at the same time as somebody. You maybe didn't meet that person until you were 30 years old. There's something that makes that person, having gone through that experience, that feels like an old friend.

[Marielle Segarra]

I found that my old friends bring so much richness to my life. They're the ones that I can do the ridiculous bit with, you know? You know, and deep belly laugh in a way that I haven't since high school or college. In our lows and in our highs, our old friends can remind us who we are. But time can also do a number on relationships. We get busy, lose track of people, forget to text, keep rescheduling. We change and they change and suddenly we don't fit anymore. So on this episode of Life Kit, how to maintain your long standing friendships, we'll talk about why some thrive while others fade. How to communicate when you feel like your friend isn't reciprocating your effort, or like you don't have as much time to connect anymore. And generally how to keep the friendship flame burning.

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[Ira Glass]

This is Ira Glass, the host of this American Life. So much is changing so rapidly right now with President Trump in office. It feels good to pause for a moment sometimes and look around at what's what to try and do that. We've been finding these incredible stories about right now that are funny and have feeling and you get to see people everywhere making sense of this new America that we find ourselves in this American life.

[Nina Badson]

Wherever you get your podcasts, why do.

You think it's important to have old friends?

I think that it's important to have friends who have known you through different stages and it's a good life skill for happiness to be able to maintain friendships. So having old friends I guess is a proof in some way that you have developed those skills. And if you have no old friends. And again, it doesn't have to be all the way from childhood, but if you haven't been able to maintain friendships, it is probably, probably a sign that something is off in your mindset about friendships, that maybe you have some unreasonable expectations. And I don't say this to make people feel terrible if they don't have old friends. I say it more as an optimistic. This is something you can change. You can have friends who are in your life now, who you make an effort with, so that 10 years from now, you can consider that person an old friend. That person will now have known a fuller picture of you. And having this skill set to be able to keep the friends you have already, the skill set to be able to deepen connections that are already part of your life is really essential.

Why do you think that some friendships survive for decades and others fade away?

Well, there's two reasons. One is people don't keep score, or they might keep score, but they check themselves on that. And the other one is they've learned to develop a benefit of the doubt that they take very seriously, like they assume the best of their friends. Without those two skills, I think it's very hard to maintain friendships.

Yeah, I mean, I think one thing that can happen, especially with old friends, as you end up in different life circumstances, maybe you move to different places, it gets harder to stay in touch, and one person might feel like they're trying harder than the other. Is is that what you mean by keeping score?

Yes. I think that what gets in the way of old friendships is a perceived lack of effort or a perceived lack of equality in effort. And I really believe that we just need to redefine what effort looks like, because we all have very different skill sets. And even with an old friend that we know very well, it's still we're all human. And it's still hard not to expect other people to do friendship exactly the way we do or exactly the way it was always done between you and this friend. So if you're an old friend, used to live in the same apartment building, you didn't have to make a lot of effort once someone moves. So now there's been a shift in just reality of the situation. It takes a lot of maturity to realize we have to change how we communicate. It's not going to be as easy. Well, that might be easier for one person than the other. Maybe one person's really organized and they have no trouble reaching out. They just are the kind of person who can multitask. They're on a walk and they make a phone call and they call you and it's easy to keep up. The other person might not have the same skill set of organization, but we can't always see that because we're good at it. So I'm just talking about looking for complementary skills. So we each bring different skills to a relationship and instead of looking for equal skills, if we could look for complementary skills, I think friendships would be maintained a lot easier.

Do you think there's ever value in telling a friend, you know, I would really, I like to be loved or cared for this way. Do you think that's something you can do?

Yes, absolutely. I think if it really is an issue, you could say, I love the time we spend together and I don't mind that I make a lot of the plans because it's important to me to see my friends a certain amount of time and. But I would like to know that you really want these invitations. And so every so often, if you could initiate one and it gives a friend the opportunity to say, oh, I'm so glad you said something. I love that you reach out first because I just can't get myself together to even see on my calendar when I would have a date opening. So I wouldn't even want to reach out because I don't want to say, hey, I miss you, and then not offer a date. A conversation can happen then, and you can't have a conversation if you don't bring it up. That said, I don't think you should bring up every friend aggravation because it kind of goes back to assuming the best and knowing that people do friendship differently. It's a little bit hard to define, but if it's something that is consistently bothering you and you're. Especially if you're old friends and you're trying to maintain that friendship, it is worth giving your friend the opportunity to at least explain themselves, even if the behavior is not going to change, to offer you an explanation and then for you to accept that explanation.

[Marielle Segarra]

All right, takeaway one is that friendships take effort, but the way you invest in relationships and show love might be different from the way your friend does. If you're getting frustrated because a friend isn't showing up the way you'd like, consider what they are doing. How they remember your birthday or send you a text on the day of an important doctor appointment or facetime you randomly to check in and consider telling them what else would feel good for you.

[Nina Badson]

Let's talk more about Assuming the best intentions.

There is a quote I love by a former guest of mine, Ruhli Covell is her name and she's an educator, she's a relationship coach. And she said there are people who never disappoint us and those people are called acquaintances. And it just hits me every time because an old friend especially is going to have disappointed us at some time and most importantly, we will have disappointed that person. And so any long standing friendship, any long standing friendship needs to have forgiveness in it. And even before you get to forgiveness, before you even require forgiveness, just assuming the best in the first place, it requires humility. It really requires humility to assume the best. Because what it, what that means, assuming the best means I don't know the whole story. So I'm going to assume there's some information I don't have.

Yeah. And that you're not the center of the universe.

Right.

[Marielle Segarra]

Takeaway 2 It helps to give your friends the benefit of the doubt and assume the best intentions. If they forget to text you or they disappear for a spell, remember they probably have a lot of other things going on in their life. A lapse in connection doesn't necessarily mean your friendship is over or that they don't care about you anymore. And if they do something that hurts you, understand they probably didn't intend to and talk about it with them when you're ready.

[Nina Badson]

In your opinion, if you only see or talk to an old friend once a year or once every five years, are you still friends? Like, what's the cutoff?

Yes, you are still friends, but I really don't advocate for that. Being an adult means making time for your friends because it is important. So it may happen that you only see a friend every 10 years. Every five years you are still friends. If you are maintaining some sort of friendship in between. I mean, you're still friends no matter what, but you are not close friends if you haven't talked on the phone, sometimes in between texts. Texting counts, but we need some variety. And part of that variety is seeing each other, even if that's on FaceTime, even if you have to schedule it, which I have to do for sure. With long distance friends, scheduling time to talk is. That's okay. That's easier than hopping on an airplane. If that's all you can manage right now, I would do that. But I would not let five or 10 years go by if you can help it.

Yeah, some of my favorite ways, low stakes ways to keep a friendship going. When we're both super busy, I like to Send voice memos, my friends, and they listen and then they send theirs back. And that works really well because I might try to call them, but they're in a meeting or something and they can't pick up. And then we just keep playing phone tag. But when you send the voice memo, I mean, we're podcasters, right? Like I, it's, it's comes naturally, but it's like a, it's a very intimate thing. You're hearing the person's voice. You're hearing them kind of think as they're speaking. It feels like a conversation. You're just like ping ponging back and forth.

I'm a voice memo evangelist. I feel I have taught people, I physically taken their phone and shown them where the little microphone is. Takes a little, it's a little bit of a learning curve for some people, but then they realize, yes, so nice to hear someone's voice and you can do it on your own time. It's great.

One thing I find is that scheduling check ins with friends who don't live nearby sometimes ends up feeling like work. And the. When the day comes, neither of us really wants to do it. You know, we're tired. It's like we set up this phone call, but it's kind of, it's heavy too, because if you haven't talked in a while, you're like, oh, we have to talk about everything. What are some options here?

When we actually talk on the phone, Whether it's scheduled or spontaneous, usually it is scheduled. It's a lot like exercise. I mean, very few people regret having gone on a walk. Yes, we would love to just sit and watch TV or something, but once you've gone on that walk, I'd say most people come back and they're like, okay, I'm glad I did that. And I think a phone call with a friend is a lot like that. And I totally hear you, especially on that end of day. And like, oh my gosh, like you just want to like listen to a podcast maybe, or just relax. But once you've connected, you will feel better. And if you do it more often, it won't feel so onerous to have so much to catch up on.

I find that what has worked for me with some old friends is to just jump right into whatever is most important to either of us that day. Like, what's on our mind right now, you know, is there some frustration at work with a colleague or something? Then we'll just talk about that in depth. Or like, are we just about to, you know, get engaged or something. And it's very exciting and you want to talk about like how in love you are or you're really into some new craft that you're working on. You just want to tell them all about it. And then we just take the pressure off to be fully updated on every part of our lives. Because I feel like that allows for connection. It's creating a new memory and putting that person, situating them in your present like they're helping you work through or talk through something that's going on right now.

I think that's really wise. And it makes me think of how a memoir is very different than a biography. A memoir, like if you enjoy memoirs, you kind of accept that this is just a slice of a person's story, right? It's not the whole story. You're getting to know something about this person, but you wouldn't presume to know, you know, everything that happened in their life. You just are getting this artful vision of this moment in this person's life that they felt worthy of telling. That's what that phone call is like. And I think that's a good idea. It's a good way to do it. Not to have to go through every category. Maybe they don't need to know everything going on at work, let's say, like in this phone call. And you don't need to.

Maybe you don't want to talk about it either. Like it. Sometimes I think it's really valuable to just to share your joy with old friends.

No, that's right.

Takeaway three.

[Marielle Segarra]

If you and your friend are in a busy season, there are lots of low stakes ways to stay in touch. Schedule a phone call or a video chat. Send each other voice memos. Send some good old snail mail filled with tiny treasures. We have an episode on how to get into letter writing, if that's your thing. And when you catch up, consider diving right into whatever's on your mind that day, rather than running through a checklist of everything that's happened in your lives since you last spoke. This approach can take some of the pressure off.

[Nina Badson]

How important do you think is in person? Connection to old friendships?

I think it is important. I. It's. Well, it's funny, I guess, because I don't live in the city where I grew up or where I went to college. And a lot of times it requires me to travel or we all travel and meet somewhere. And I do think it's important, even though, I mean harder than a phone call at the end of the day when you're really busy is getting on an airplane and going somewhere, but it is so completely different. And a really important piece of maintaining old friendships is changing the venue, which could literally be the place that you are together, or it could be the mode of communication. So if you're always talking on the phone and texting for a decade, you would want to get on a plane at some point and see that person. But if we're talking about in town friends, I think it's really important to get together in person. We need some face to face time.

Okay, so with an old friend, you likely also have old patterns, and they may have known you when you were different, when you behaved differently, maybe even had different values than you do now. I wonder, how can we give our friends the grace and the space to change?

It is one of the biggest gifts you can give to a friend. And kind of like we were saying before, that if we could give others as much space as we give ourselves, it would go a long way. I think allowing a friend to change is in the same category. Sometimes people avoid their old friends when they've changed because they don't want to go back to a certain pattern or they don't want to hear from that friend. Oh, I thought you said you would never be one of those people who does CrossFit, for example. And like you want, you're in this new phase of life and you're trying to put your physical health first. Let's say nobody likes to have this reminder of someone who says, well, you always said, or I thought you said, or I thought you believed. It's like, oh my gosh, I'm an adult person. Do I not get to try new things? Maybe you have another old friend that you have ended a friendship with, but you want to reconnect. That can be very threatening to another old friend who is kind of like, oh, wait, why are you bringing this person back? You always said you would never be friends with so and so. And we have to allow our friends to change, and we want that. Most of us want to be able to develop and change our minds about things. There's not a lot of hope in the world if we have to keep all the same opinions and interests that we had from the time we were, you know, 10 years old, 15, even 20s, even 30s. It's really important to give your friends space to try different ways of living. I think.

How can we talk to our friends about it if they're treating us like an old version of ourselves?

I would just be honest and say it's really hard for me to have made these changes in my life and I really just want your support. And I bet most good friends would say, I'm so happy for you, I am supporting you. I'm so sorry you think I'm not. And it gives you an opportunity to explain. Well, when you said such and such or when you kind of I kind of felt like you were rolling your eyes and either the friend wasn't doing that and you were assuming the worst because it's something you're self conscious about, or they were and now you've, you know, gently called them on it and asked them to stop. I think a lot of problems are solved by bringing it up in a gentle way, but with curiosity instead of an accusation. So I'm just curious, do you find it strange that I am now doing this new thing? Like curious gives the person an out. It allows room for everyone to get out of that dynamic that's been going on.

[Marielle Segarra]

Takeaway 4 One of the greatest gifts you can give to a friend is allowing them to change as you and your friends navigate romantic partnerships, career changes, illnesses, financial ups and downs, births, deaths and shifts in family life. Just be there. Love them. Let them be who they are and who they're becoming.

[Nina Badson]

I think the undercurrent of this conversation is this feeling that it's important to fight for our friendships and to take them as seriously as we take romantic partnership 100%.

I mean, it's the undercurrent of everything I do. And you can only control so much. But what you can control in a friendship is how much effort you put in and then assuming the best of the people who are important to you. And then I think you got some good ingredients for maintaining those friendships.

All right, well Nina, thank you so much for this.

Thank you. Thank you for having me on.

[Marielle Segarra]

Okay, time for a recap. Takeaway 1. Friendships take effort, but but that effort might look different depending on who you are. Think about the ways your friends do show up and not just how they don't take away. 2. Assume your friend has the best intentions. If they forgot to text you or they disappeared for a bit, it's probably not about you, but you can always talk to them about it. Takeaway 3 There are lots of ways to stay in touch in between your in person meetups. Schedule a phone call or video chat. Send each other voice memos or snail mail and don't be afraid to drop. Jump right in with a deep or in the weeds convo. No need for small talk with old friends right. Finally, takeaway 4 allow your friends to change and support them as they go through life's many ups and downs. For more Life Kit, check out our other episodes. We have one on how to stay friends after kids come into the picture and another on how to show your friends you appreciate them. You can find [e-mail] LifeKit and if you love Life Kit and you want even more, subscribe to our newsletter [e-mail] lifekitnewsletter Also, we love to hear from you, so if you have episode ideas or feedback you want to share, email [e-mail] this episode of Life Kit was produced by Sam Yellowhorse Kessler. Our visuals editor is Beck Harlan and our digital editor is Malika Garib. Megan Keane is our supervising editor and Beth Donovan is our executive producer. Our production team also includes Andy Taegle, Claire Marie Schneider, Margaret Serino and Sylvie Douglas. Engineering support comes from Jimmy Keeley. I'm Mariel Segarra. Thanks for listening.

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