How to maintain your friendships after kids

Summary

Life Kit Podcast Episode Summary: "How to Maintain Your Friendships After Kids"

Released on May 6, 2025, NPR's "Life Kit" hosted by Marielle Segarra delves into the intricate dynamics of sustaining friendships once parenthood enters the picture. This episode features insightful conversations with experts and individuals navigating the delicate balance between raising children and maintaining meaningful adult relationships.

---

Introduction

Marielle Segarra opens the episode by acknowledging the natural evolution of friendships over time, especially when one friend becomes a parent. She highlights the common challenges faced by both parents and childfree individuals, such as scheduling conflicts, communication gaps, and feelings of exclusion on either side.

Challenges in Maintaining Friendships After Parenthood

Mariah Maddox, a writer, photographer, and doula, shares her personal experience of feeling isolated after becoming the first parent in her friend group. (00:45 - 02:52)

"I sometimes felt like I wasn't included in plans a lot because people assume, 'Oh well, you have a baby, you won't be able to go out as much or do certain things.' I think it's easy to feel disregarded."
(02:42, 02:52)

Anne Helen Peterson, a culture writer, discusses the mutual feelings of neglect experienced by both parents and childfree friends. She recounts how conversations often overlook the reciprocal effort needed to maintain friendships across different life stages. (06:32 - 07:31)

Takeaways and Strategies

Takeaway 1: Communicate Clearly About Mutual Needs

Justin Kello, a father of two and creator of the TikTok account "Parenting Cheerleader," emphasizes the importance of explicit communication to avoid assumptions.

"Instead of making assumptions about what your friend wants or allowing them to make assumptions about you, communicate clearly."
(08:05 - 08:31)

He suggests practical scripts for declining invitations while expressing the desire to maintain the friendship:

"I can't go to this, but please keep inviting me to things."
(08:36)

Ira Glass adds that open communication helps prevent misunderstandings:

"If they perceive you as you just ghosted them, then yeah, that friendship may not last. But if you just say, 'Hey, listen, the kids are wild right now,' being honest can keep the friendship intact."
(08:51 - 09:17)

Takeaway 2: Invite Friends Without Kids Into Your Family Life

Inviting non-parent friends to family-oriented activities can bridge the gap:

"Maybe you have a childfree friend who's been hanging back a bit. You might assume that they just aren't into kids. But remember, we are not assuming."
(11:16)

Anne Helen Peterson shares her experience of re-integrating into her friends' parent-focused social circles by engaging in their activities:

"I was like, I like that makes me feel left out that I'm not on that thread. And they're like, well, we thought you wouldn't want to be on that because it's just pictures of rashes. And I was like, that's okay, you can include me on that."
(10:22)

Takeaway 3: Get Creative About Quality Time

Adapting how you spend time together can accommodate parenting schedules:

• Justin Kello schedules bi-weekly phone calls with friends when in-person activities are challenging.

"Every time I hang up, I'm like, I'm glad I did that."
(13:55 - 14:05)

• Mariah Maddox opts for activities that include children, such as walks with a stroller, allowing her to catch up without the need for babysitters.

"It allotted us time to catch up while kind of relieving me of any worry of having to find a babysitter."
(14:16 - 14:46)

• Anne Helen Peterson advocates for "errand friends," where friends accompany each other on mundane tasks, turning them into bonding opportunities.

"You both need to go to the laundry service... it's just wonderful. It's better together."
(14:52 - 15:08)

Takeaway 4: Schedule Parent Time Off (PTO)

Proactively setting aside time for friends helps ensure regular connection:

"Schedule parent time off with the help of other people in your life."
(15:48)

Justin Kello and his wife implement a weekly night each can use independently and also allocate monthly days and annual weekends dedicated to spending time apart with others.

"This is something you're doing proactively and consistently. By making it a habit, you can fill your own cup and invest in friendships at the same time."
(16:31 - 16:43)

Takeaway 5: It's Okay to Let Friendships Evolve

Recognizing that not all friendships will remain as close can lead to healthier relationships:

"Not every friendship has to be forever and for life."
(17:13)

Mariah Maddox advises trusting your feelings about a relationship:

"Do you feel supported? Do you feel seen? Do you feel valued?"
(18:10 - 18:21)

She suggests allowing friendships to naturally fade if they no longer provide mutual support:

"Maybe life will bring us back around to each other, maybe not. But it's all about allowing yourself to just go with the flow of the process."
(18:32 - 18:40)

Importance of Maintaining Friendships Across Life Stages

Investing in friendships that span different life stages fosters personal growth and support:

• Marielle Segarra emphasizes that such friendships prevent social isolation and contribute to overall well-being.

Anne Helen Peterson highlights that diverse friendships offer varied perspectives and prevent echo chambers:

"We are not meant to only be friends with people exactly like us. It doesn't build character...we need people who are living life differently."
(20:36 - 20:51)

Justin Kello notes that friendships with individuals in different stages of life can be more flexible and less burdened by similar parenting challenges:

"For me, my best friendships are sometimes with older guys whose kids have gone beyond the bedtime routine. Their schedules are way more flexible."
(19:10 - 19:36)

Conclusion

Marielle Segarra wraps up the episode by reiterating the five key takeaways:

1. Communicate Clearly: Avoid assumptions by expressing your needs and limitations openly.
2. Include Childfree Friends: Invite them into your family activities to maintain a sense of inclusion.
3. Be Creative with Quality Time: Adapt your meet-ups to fit your parenting schedule.
4. Schedule PTO: Dedicate specific times for personal friendships to ensure consistency.
5. Allow Friendships to Evolve: Accept that some relationships may change or fade naturally.

By implementing these strategies, parents and childfree individuals alike can nurture enduring and supportive friendships despite the shifts that parenthood brings.

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Notable Quotes:

• "Instead of making assumptions about what your friend wants or allowing them to make assumptions about you, communicate clearly." – Justin Kello (08:31)
• "Our friendships are gonna morph somewhat throughout our lives." – Marielle Segarra (00:45)
• "Maybe life will bring us back around to each other, maybe not." – Mariah Maddox (18:32)

Key Contributors:

• Host: Marielle Segarra
• Guests: Mariah Maddox, Anne Helen Peterson, Justin Kello, Ira Glass

Production Team:

• Sam Yellow Horse Kessler, Beck Harlan, Malika Gharib, Megan Kane, Beth Donovan, Andy Taegle, Claire Marie Schneider, Sylvie Douglas, Margaret Serino, Ko Takasugi Chernovin

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For more episodes and resources on maintaining friendships and other life skills, visit NPR's Life Kit.

Transcript

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[Emily Siner]

A quick note before we start today's show. You may have heard that President Trump has issued an executive order seeking to block all federal funding to npr. This is the latest in a series of threats to media organizations around the country. Whatever changes this brings, NPR's commitment to reporting and to serving the public will never change. Even as paywalls rise elsewhere, we offer our reporting as a resource to everyone, regardless of their ability to pay. This is a pivotal moment. It's more important than ever that every supporter who can contribute comes together to pitch in as much as they're able. Support the news and programming you and millions rely on by visiting donate.NPR.org and if you already support us through NPR or anotherway, thank you. Your support means a lot to us. Now more than ever, you help make NPR shows freely available to everyone, and we are proud to do this work for you and with you. You're listening to Life Kit from npr. Hey, it's Marielle. I think we all understand that our friendships are gonna morph somewhat throughout our lives. Like if you and a friend met in the sandbox at three. You're not expecting to sit around building sandcastles every time you hang out, though. If you do do that, kudos. That actually sounds super fun. There are few changes as dramatic though, as when one friend becomes a parent. Suddenly they can't make plans. As often they're experiencing a whole new set of stresses and they may only want to talk about their baby. For the child free, it can feel like their friend with kids just disappeared into their own world. And for the friends with kids, it can feel like non parent friends just don't understand.

[Mariah Maddox]

I would say a lot of the friendships that I held before becoming a mom, I saw how those kind of just transformed.

[Emily Siner]

Mariah Maddox is a writer, a photographer and a doula. When she had a child four years ago, she was the first parent in her close friend group and it was lonely.

[Mariah Maddox]

I sometimes felt like I wasn't included in plans a lot because of course, you know, people assume, oh well, you have a baby, you won't be able to go out as much or do certain things. I think it's easy to feel disregarded.

[Emily Siner]

People without kids often feel the same way. On this episode of Life Kit, reporter Emily Siner is diving into how parents can strengthen their relationships with the childfree folks in their lives. She'll share scripts and creative ideas you can use, and she'll be speaking primarily to the parents in the room. But if you don't have kids, you might learn something too about how to keep a friendship alive and flexible in different stages of life.

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[Ira Glass]

This is Ira Glass, the host of this American Life.

[Justin Kello]

So much is changing so rapidly right.

[Ira Glass]

Now with President Trump in office. It feels good to pause for a moment sometimes and look around at what's what to try and do that. We've been finding these incredible stories about right now that are funny and have feeling. And you get to see people everywhere.

[Justin Kello]

Making sense of this new America that we find ourselves in, this American life. Wherever you get your podcasts when my son was a newborn, I went to a mom's meetup in my neighborhood. It was my first entree into a world of socializing that revolved around kids. It's a whole thing. I now get invited to many, many toddler birthday parties. There's family programming at my synagogue, playdates, clothing swaps. It's nice to have these moments of connection, especially because I know many people feel isolated during this stage. But I also see how this social life that's easy enough for me to tap into excludes an entire set of close friends, people who I love but who don't have kids. It's sort of like a social silo. Culture writer Anne Helen Peterson has thought about this a lot. She does not have children, and a few years ago in her newsletter called Culture Study, she asked readers how they showed up for friends without kids.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

I think a lot of people were kind of stunned by even the question. I think a lot of the discourse is about how you show up for friends with kids.

[Justin Kello]

When your friend has a child. There are social scripts. You bring over food, you work around their schedule, you offer to babysit.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

And there was very little discussion of reciprocality just in terms of okay, how do you make time for your friends without kids?

[Justin Kello]

What Anne Helen heard from readers was that a lot of people without kids felt ignored once their friends started. Families like their friends were in this new stage of life and too busy to care about their non parent friends friends. But she also heard that people with kids felt the same way, like the non parents were out there having a great time socially and never inviting them to hang anymore.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

That whole entire like series of conversations illuminated some hurt, some unspoken hurt on both sides.

[Justin Kello]

Overcoming this mutual hurt is a good idea, and not just because of any individual relationship between parents and non parents. It's a good idea because friendships and communities are really important. Research shows that people with friends are less likely to suffer from depression and more likely to live longer and healthier. In other words, it's in our best interest to keep up existing, healthy friendships. And that means we gotta stop unintentionally shutting each other out.

[Ira Glass]

What I found was guys were telling me like, well, I just thought you were busy, so I didn't ask. And it's like, well, I mean, give me a chance to say I'm busy.

[Justin Kello]

Justin Kello is a father of two and runs a TikTok account called Parenting Cheerleader and he brings up our first takeaway. Instead of making assumptions about what your friend wants or allowing them to make assumptions about you, communicate clearly. This is good advice for every single relationship, but especially when you have friends across life stages and assumptions run rampant, you have to be extra intentional about communicating what you want.

[Ira Glass]

Like you have to say, I am busy, but this friendship is important to me. Please don't give up on me.

[Justin Kello]

If you have to decline an invitation to hang out, you might even explicitly say, I can't go to this, but please keep inviting me to things.

[Ira Glass]

Or hey, this next six months is wild. Can, can we recircle back up, you know, middle of next year and try and get something going?

[Justin Kello]

Do you think that friendships can still be maintained at the same level if you're really having to schedule that far out?

[Ira Glass]

I think that friendships that are strong can survive sort of a break, especially when it's open communication. If they perceive you as you just ghosted them, then yeah, that friendship may not last. But if you just say, hey, listen, the kids are wild right now, I think just being honest because so much of friendships break down because people just aren't saying what's actually going on.

[Justin Kello]

This open communication gives the other person a chance to respond and decide whether this hypothetical six month break works for them. And if not, we're going to talk later in the episode about how to find creative ways to maintain a friendship. Even during the busy seasons. Honesty in friendships can also look like saying explicitly that something the other person did hurt you. And you can say you want to talk about it because this friendship is important to you. Mariah Maddox says, think about this kind of communication as an opportunity to deepen the friendship.

[Mariah Maddox]

I just wish more people, more friends would be willing to have the hard conversations. But I don't think that people realize that on the other side of those uncomfortable and messy and vulnerable conversations lies an intimacy like nothing you've ever experienced before.

[Justin Kello]

For example, Anne Helen realized at one point that there was a secret text thread among her friends with kids. It was like a subset of her big friend group chat with just the parents. Instead of stewing on it passive aggressively, as some of us might annoy Anne Helen decided to talk to them about it.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

And I was like, I like that makes me feel left out that I'm not on that thread. And they're like, well we thought you wouldn't want to be on it because it's just like pictures of rashes And I was like, that's okay, you know, like you can include me on that.

[Justin Kello]

Another time, Anne Helen asked if she could support her friend's child in a school play. Her friend had assumed she would never want to go, but she saw it as a way to deepen her relationship with this friend and child and family that she cared about.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

I think oftentimes parents don't invite their friends without kids to kid oriented things because they find those kid oriented things kind of wild and or boring. They're like, why would they want to come to this like birthday party of three year olds when in fact all of these things that are ways that you can include someone in that that tight focus of the family are meaningful.

[Justin Kello]

This leads to takeaway number two. If you have children, invite friends without kids to be involved in your family life. It's an act of inclusiveness that can reap benefits for your friendship. For example, maybe you have a child free friend who's been hanging back a bit. You might assume that they just aren't into kids. But remember, we are not assuming. So you can say something like, hey, I want to see you more. Would you be willing to come over during a family dinner? If they're interested, it can be an opportunity to strengthen your relationship and their relationship with your kids. And if it turns out they really just aren't into kids, we'll talk later about how to make time for kid free hangs. Or plan a gathering with a mix of parents and non parents so you can introduce your friends from different parts of your life to each other.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Like this is a way to integrate them into that group of parent friends. Right? So that's not just like a weird other world that you talk about sometimes and that it feels like you're getting cheated on with with parent friends right now.

[Justin Kello]

This isn't without its pitfalls. I told Anne Helen I have a vivid memory of being invited to a friend's house before I had kids and the whole conversation revolved around potty training. I didn't enjoy that. Anne Helen says yes, it's good to be aware of who's in the room when you're having in depth conversations about parenting. But that's the case with any group of people and any kind of commonality, whether it's a life stage or a job or a mutual friend. Just keep the conversation inclusive. Including friends without kids in your family life also means honoring the fact that they have a full life too. Maybe your friends have come to your baby shower or brought you meals. You can find ways to reciprocate with moments of support or celebration.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Or in my case, my friends threw me, like, a really big book party. But it could be a birthday or something like that. But it could be a celebration of your friendship, right? Or when someone moves into a new place or like, things that I think aren't always celebrated but deserve to be celebrated. That seems very basic, but it sometimes needs to be, I think, articulated very clearly.

[Justin Kello]

Okay, so you and your friend have talked about what you both need out of the friendship. Maybe you've started breaking down the silo between family and friends. But the fact remains, parenting takes a lot of time. It's just a logistical challenge to hang out. So Justin says in order to actively maintain friendships, you have to be more flexible about what it means to connect. For example, a lot of men he knows like to do activities together rather than just talk. But that's hard for Justin to make time for. So he started scheduling phone calls with a friend every other week.

[Ira Glass]

And I don't love talking on the phone, but because I don't have time to grab lunch or to go do an activity with them, that's the best I can do. And it is good. Every time I hang up, I'm like, I'm glad I did that.

[Justin Kello]

Takeaway number three, get creative about quality time with friends. For Mariah, this meant finding activities where the kids could be present without being too distracting.

[Mariah Maddox]

So my friendship hangouts turned from being able to go and get dinner late at night if I wanted to, to inviting a friend over and going for a walk around the neighborhood with my child in his stroller. It allotted us time to catch up while kind of relieving me of any worry of having to find a babysitter or wait until my husband was off of work in order to be able to go out by myself.

[Justin Kello]

Or maybe you invite a friend to run errands together. Anne Helen has written about the joys of having an errand friend.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

You both need to go to the laundry service. You both need to go to the bank. You both need to go to Target. And that's easier when you have two people doing it together. And you can, like, stop and get a sweet treat or listen to dumb top 40 radio. Like, it's just. It's wonderful. It's better together.

[Justin Kello]

I feel like I. I just, like, want a friend to come over while I'm, like, folding laundry, but that feels like a. I don't know, like, kind of a presumptive ask.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

No, I mean, you could be like, bring your laundry. Like, you both Take your loads of laundry and you fold them together.

[Justin Kello]

Anne Helen says this has the added benefit of removing some pressure for your house to look perfect when friends come over, whether or not you have kids. We should all embrace the unfolded laundry. But not every friendship hang has to be some kind of creative compromise. With kids in tow, it is possible to go out to dinner with a friend, adults only, just like old times. But it takes more planning and additional.

[Ira Glass]

Help for people who have a strong partnership. I think one thing you can do is create what I like to call PTO for parents.

[Justin Kello]

Pto, as in parent time off. That's takeaway four, schedule parent time off with other people in your life. It could be something you plan ahead with family members, or even a babysitter if you can afford it, or with a partner, like in Justin's case.

[Ira Glass]

Let's agree, like, okay, one night a week, each of us can bail and the other one has to manage things. You have one guaranteed night a week where you can go be alone, you can go be with friends, you can go to dinner, whatever.

[Justin Kello]

And then Justin says he and his wife take it a step further. In addition to this one night a week, they also give each other a full day off a month and then a full weekend off at least once a year.

[Ira Glass]

Like, you should be absolutely able to go away, visit with friends, visit with family, without having to manage children. And each of you get that. I think if you make a structure like that, you're more likely to do it.

[Justin Kello]

I love this tip, because it's not about waiting until you're already drained by the demands of parenthood and then making time to get away from the family. It's something you're doing proactively and consistently. By making it a habit, you can fill your own cup and invest in friendships at the same time. So once we're all communicating what we need and we're finding creative and structured ways to make time for friendship, everything should be great, right? Well, not always. Takeaway five is that it's okay to let friendships evolve.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Not every friendship has to be forever and for life.

[Justin Kello]

Anne Helen says different seasons of life bring different configurations of relationships. Whether you're moving to a new city or starting a new chapter with children, you just won't maintain the same level of closeness with every friend.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

And so either you can resist that and get angry about it and resentful, or look at it head on and be like, I can't offer them what they're looking for in this particular moment. That doesn't mean I don't love them. That doesn't mean I don't cherish them. It just means that our friendship isn't working.

[Justin Kello]

Before you let the friendship go entirely, go back to takeaway one. See if it's time for some more open communication. Maybe there's an opportunity for repair. See what happens after you give feedback and do your part to show up. But at a certain point it is okay to move on. How would someone know if that is like the right step for their friendship with someone?

[Mariah Maddox]

I think it's all about just feeling how you feel in that relationship. Do you feel supported? Do you feel seen? Do you feel valued?

[Justin Kello]

Mariah says when the answer to these questions is no, it's better for everyone to just take a step back. And she says you don't have to have a full on friend breakup. Just let the friendship evolve.

[Mariah Maddox]

And who knows, maybe life will bring us back around to each other, maybe not. But it's all about allowing yourself to just go with the flow of the process.

[Justin Kello]

Justin has noticed this evolution in the context of group relationships too. He's part of a church community that has a lot of families, but he's noticed how some people try to cling to an old congregation that's no longer serving them.

[Ira Glass]

I've seen people have to leave their churches as their kids got older because they didn't have a youth ministry. And I think you got to be honest, say, listen, I love this church, but it's not actually geared towards me and I can't be mad at them because they can't be everything for everyone. I need to find what works for me and my life situation.

[Justin Kello]

And yet Mariah Justin and Anne Helen all agreed investing in friendships across life stages is incredibly valuable. For one thing, logistically, Justin says he finds it much easier to schedule a hang with someone in a different stage of life.

[Ira Glass]

So for me, my best friendships are sometimes with older guys whose kids have gone beyond the bedtime routine. And I find myself gravitating to those men because their schedules are way more.

[Justin Kello]

Flexible than mine is, but also because of our identity. We are multifaceted people, Mariah says. Not just parents, my friends.

[Mariah Maddox]

Without kids, they are able to help me live a little, remind me of who I was or who I am outside of just being a mom. Being able to have those people at different stages of life, it just creates a balance all around.

[Justin Kello]

By contrast, when your whole social life revolves around other parents, it's easy to get lost in the minutiae of sleep schedules and daycare options. Anne Helen says your child free friends will keep you grounded.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Having someone who is not in the thick of that to say like, your kid is really kind and loving and curious and you're doing a great job parenting, it can kind of remove you from that incredible anxiety of like, what if I'm not doing everything exactly right the way that I feel like these other parents are doing?

[Justin Kello]

Like, giving some perspective.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah, like we are not meant to only be friends with people exactly like us. It doesn't build character. It doesn't make us more interesting or curious. Like, we need people who are living life differently.

[Justin Kello]

So invest in your friendships across life stages by taking these steps. Takeaway 1 Instead of making assumptions, communicate clearly about what you Both want. Takeaway 2 Invite friends without kids to be involved in parts of your family life. Takeaway 3 Get creative about quality time with friends. Takeaway 4 Schedule PTO parent time off with the help of other people in your Life and Takeaway 5 It's okay to let friendships evolve.

[Emily Siner]

That was reporter Emily Signer. For more Life Kit, check out our other episodes. We have one on how to make friends as an adult and another on how to prevent burnout when you're a parent. You can find [e-mail] LifeKit and if you love Life Kit and want even more, subscribe to our [e-mail] LifeKitnewsletter Also, we love hearing from you, so if you have episode ideas or feedback you want to share, email us at lifek ###pr.org this episode of Life Kit was produced by Sam Yellow Horse Kessler. Our visuals editor is Beck Harlan and our digital editor is Malika Gharib. Megan Kane is our supervising editor and Beth Donovan is our Executive producer. Our production team also includes Andy Taegle, Claire Marie Schneider, Sylvie Douglas and Margaret Serino who helped with production on this episode. Engineering support comes from Ko Takasugi Chernovin. I'm Mariel Segarra. Thanks for listening.

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