How to take a refreshing nap (without ending up more tired)

Summary

Life Kit (NPR): "How to take a refreshing nap (without ending up more tired)"

Host: Marielle Segarra
Guests: Jade Wu (Sleep Medicine Specialist), Seema Khosla (Sleep Medicine Physician)
Date: October 20, 2025

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Overview

This episode dives deep into the science and art of napping: why we crave naps, how to do them right, and how to avoid common nap pitfalls like waking up groggier than before. Life Kit’s Andy Tagle explores the topic with sleep experts Jade Wu and Seema Khosla, uncovering practical nap strategies for real, restorative rest—even for the most troubled nappers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Naps are Supplemental—Not a Substitute for Nighttime Sleep

Time stamp: [05:18–06:56]

• Naps are best as a "bonus" on top of your core, continuous nighttime sleep.
• Nighttime sleep is when your body gets the deep, restorative rest it needs.
• Jade Wu: “Don’t worry about your nighttime sleep…think of napping like a bonus” ([06:31]).

Takeaway: Prioritize consistent, quality nighttime sleep; use naps as needed to supplement—not replace—your primary sleep.

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2. Defining a Nap: What Counts, and Who Needs Them?

Time stamp: [05:18–10:41]

• There’s no strict consensus on what counts as a nap; it’s any sleep apart from your regular sleep period.
• For shift workers, day naps may be primary rest; for others, naps are micro-sleeps outside the main sleep window.
• Seema Khosla: "A nap is...a period of time where you are sleeping that is not at the same time as your regular sleep period." ([06:04])

Not for Everyone:

• Some people naturally don’t nap.
• “Not everybody has to nap, and not everybody can nap,” notes Jade Wu ([09:33]).
• If you struggle with insomnia or have trouble falling asleep at night, naps might worsen the issue. Always consult with your doctor for sleep disorders.

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3. Tired vs Sleepy: Listen to Your Body

Time stamp: [08:33–09:11]

• Jade Wu: "Tired and sleepy are due to different causes and therefore they require different cures." ([08:33])
  • Sleepy = biologically ready to sleep (heavy eyelids, yawning)
  • Tired = may be physical, emotional, or mental exhaustion not solved by sleep alone.

Pro Tip: Before napping, check if what you need is sleep or if your body craves hydration, movement, or a mental break.

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4. The Risks of Oversleeping and the Perils of Sleep Inertia

Time stamp: [11:08–13:13]

• Long naps (over an hour) can lead to deep sleep, resulting in grogginess, known as “sleep inertia.”
• Seema Khosla: "If you wake up from deep sleep, sometimes you feel almost drunk from sleep. The term that we use is called sleep inertia." ([11:08])

Solution: Napping should be C-E-B: Consistent, Early, Brief.

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5. How to Nap Well: The "C-E-B" Formula

Time stamp: [11:36–13:13]

• Consistent: Nap at the same time each day wherever possible ([11:44–11:58]).
• Early: Early- to mid-afternoon is optimal ("Early afternoon would be excellent." –Jade Wu, [12:01])
• Brief: 10–45 minutes is ideal.
  • Seema Khosla: "A short nap is typically what we recommend, you know, 10 or 20 minutes." ([12:57])
  • Jade Wu: "If you set a timer for about 45 minutes…you’ll probably end up sleeping about 30ish minutes and that's pretty safe.” ([12:45])

Note: If you dream or fall into deep sleep quickly during naps, you may be sleep-deprived or could have a sleep disorder (like narcolepsy). ([14:09])

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6. Good Sleep Hygiene is Crucial for Great Naps

Time stamp: [15:56–18:21]

• Be careful with caffeine—especially in the afternoon. “You might be setting yourself up to…have difficulty falling asleep that night,” warns Jade Wu ([17:12]).
• Sleep environment matters—dark, quiet, and cozy (even in a car, bring an eye mask/blanket/earplugs).
• Maintain the same bedtime and wake time on weekends to avoid "social jet lag.”
  • Jade Wu: "Otherwise you’re doing social jet lag…that jet lag is just brutal.” ([17:58])

---

7. Rest is More Than Sleep: The Power of the Mini Ritual

Time stamp: [18:21–22:38]

• Daytime rest—even without napping—signals your body that it’s safe to wind down at night.
• Ritualizing rest helps, e.g., soft music, meditation, or “power nap” self-talk.
  • Seema Khosla: “Because we believe it restores us, whatever the duration…” ([20:14])
• Short mindfulness practices, deep breathing (like box breathing), or listening to audiobooks or podcasts foster relaxation.
• Jade Wu: “What you need is true rest. So even if you don’t fall asleep...those states are really restful and really special and can be rejuvenating…” ([20:42])
• Seema Khosla recommends mimicking your nighttime routine on a smaller scale for naps ([21:22]).

Golden Rule: Don’t let perfection be the enemy—any rest is good rest.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “A nap is a performance enhancing drug without the drug.” —Jade Wu ([02:07])
• “If you’re taking a two hour nap, that almost becomes an additional sleep period… you could argue you’re engaging in polyphasic sleep.” —Seema Khosla ([12:26])
• “If I fall asleep, great. If I don’t fall asleep, also great. But what I’m not gonna do is… scroll through social media… what you need is true rest.” —Jade Wu ([20:42])
• “Don’t let perfection be the enemy of good… you just really need and deserve to rest, even if it’s just for a tiny bit of time.” —Jade Wu ([22:26])

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:32] — Jade Wu explains our evolutionary circadian dip
• [02:07] — Benefits of napping: “performance enhancing drug without the drug”
• [06:04] — Seema Khosla: What is a nap?
• [08:33] — Jade Wu: The difference between tired and sleepy
• [11:08] — Deep sleep and sleep inertia
• [11:36] — C-E-B: Consistent, Early, Brief
• [12:57] — How long is “brief”?
• [15:56] — Sleep hygiene and napping
• [17:58] — Social jet lag explained
• [20:42] — True rest, not just sleep
• [22:26] — The importance of rest, even if imperfect

---

Episode Recap & Actionable Takeaways

1. Naps are supplemental—don’t rely on them over nighttime sleep.
2. Not everyone needs naps. Listen to your body, and distinguish tired from sleepy.
3. Follow the C-E-B rule: Consistent, Early, Brief.
   • Nap at similar times
   • Aim for midday
   • Keep naps under 30–45 minutes
4. Avoid sleep sabotage: Watch caffeine, keep routines steady, and nap in a restful environment.
5. Make daily rest a ritual: Even if you can’t sleep, quiet downtime is vital to overall health.

---

"You just really need and deserve to rest, even if it's just for just a tiny bit of time." — Jade Wu ([22:38])

This episode is a sleep-friendly guide to getting the rest you need, without the pitfalls that sabotage both your naps and your nights.

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For more tips or to join the Life Kit community, visit npr.org/LifeKitnewsletter.

Transcript

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

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[Marielle Segarra]

You're listening to Life Kit from npr. Hey, it's Marielle. Before we start the episode, I want to thank you for listening to Life Kit and to ask you a favor. We'd love to what you think about the podcast. Help us out, tell us what you like and how we can improve by completing a short anonymous [e-mail] lifekitsurvey. We'll also have a link in our episode description and thank you so every time I take a nap, it's the same routine. You know, I'm on my couch, my eyes start closing and I decide, screw it, I'm going all in. This nap may mess me up later, but there is nowhere else in the world I'd rather be right now. And it is happening. I don't even set an alarm. And then I wake up like four hours later feeling groggy, often a little sad and guilty for having slept so long so close to my bedtime. So look, it turns out we're actually wired to take some kind of break or rest during the day, which can include naps. Our body's internal clock, our circadian rhythm, is built to to have these natural dips.

[Jade Wu]

Whether it's because the midday sun is too hot for us hunter gatherers to, you know, be functioning at that time. For whatever reason, we evolved to have this little early afternoon dip. And if we sort of ride that dip and take our nap as we're feeling that, that's where we're going to get the most benefit out of it. Like, go with your body instead of against your body.

[Marielle Segarra]

Jade Wu is a sleep medicine specialist and researcher based in North Carolina and the author of the book hello, Sleep A. She says when done right, a nap can offer a lot of mental and emotional benefits.

[Jade Wu]

I like to call it kind of a performance enhancing drug without the drug. It's good for our emotion regulation. It makes us less biased towards negative stimuli and more flexible in our thinking. And things that you learned before you went and took a nap are more solidly embedded in your brain after you wake up from the nap.

[Marielle Segarra]

And there are a ton of physical benefits, too.

[Jade Wu]

So athletes will often use a nap to really boost their performance. And they'll find that they have more power, you know, they have more stamina, they feel fatigue less quickly so napping really can all around benefit our performance and our overall health.

[Marielle Segarra]

So okay, this made me feel a lot better. But she says it's also true that there are right and wrong ways to nap. And yeah, I think I'm doing it wrong. On this episode of Life Kit, reporter Andy Tagle talks to Jade and to a sleep physician on how and why to take better naps. They'll talk sleep science, ideal nap routines, and the importance of rest no matter when your head hits the pillow.

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[Andy Tagle]

Takeaway 1 Naps are supplemental Sleep okay to start fellow sleepyheads, let's quickly go over some basics, like what even counts as a nap.

[Jade Wu]

That's actually a more complicated question than you would think. There's not really a consensus definition. That's why sometimes you see on TikTok, people are like, oh, let's play nap roulette. Is it going to be a 30 minute refresher or is it going to be a four hour journey to the astral plane?

[Andy Tagle]

Who knows? Let's go again. That's sleep psychologist and researcher Jade Wu.

[Seema Khosla]

A nap is. That's a good question.

[Andy Tagle]

And that's Seema Khosla, a sleep medicine physician practicing in Fargo, North Dakota, and the host of Talking Sleep, a podcast from the American Academy of Sleep Medicine.

[Seema Khosla]

I would think of a nap as a period of time where you are sleeping that is not at the same time as your regular sleep period. And the reason I phrase it that way is even though most of us sleep at night and we think about napping during the day, for our shift workers, they may be sleeping during the day and then may take a nap at night.

[Andy Tagle]

Great point to start us off, Seema. Let's all keep that in mind moving forward. Jade, anything to add?

[Jade Wu]

So I don't want to make it seem like, oh, naps are so awesome that you should just take, you know, quick naps all day long and not worry about your nighttime sleep. Because nighttime sleep is still the bedrock of when you get your deep sleep and the restorative continuous sleep that your body really needs. So I would start by prioritizing locking down nighttime sleep and then on top of that, think of napping like a bonus.

[Marielle Segarra]

Got it.

[Andy Tagle]

So just so we're all clear here, a nap should be a supplemental short period of sleep, an appetizer or nappetizer, if you will, to your full course sleep session that combined should help you achieve the seven to nine hours of daily sleep recommended for most adults. Now, why do we crave naps? Let's go back to that natural dip in energy. The timing of our sleep is based on two drives. The first is our homeostatic sleep drive, also known as sleep pressure, which builds from the moment you wake up until the moment you go to bed. The other is your circadian rhythm. You probably remember this from science class or any of the other many great Life kit episodes on sleep. But if not, here's a quick refresher.

[Jade Wu]

Your circadian system is a network of clocks. Billions of clocks, like most of your cells, have clocks. Your organ systems, your hormonal, you know, rhythms have clocks. Everything in your body runs on a clock. And all of these clocks are overseen by a master clock in your brain. And this master clock can do its job the best when it knows what time it is, and it can sort of keep time on a consistent rhythm.

[Andy Tagle]

And so all of our internal clocks have that natural dip in energy. But the thing is, everyone's rhythm is a little bit different, which leads us to takeaway. Two naps are not for all. Yes, siestas are sweet, but they're not always the answer or always possible for everyone. So let's check in to make sure you even need a nap. Tell me, are you sleepy or are you tired?

[Jade Wu]

Tired and sleepy are due to different causes, and therefore they require different cures.

[Andy Tagle]

Sleepy is pretty straightforward.

[Jade Wu]

Your eyelids are heavy, you're yawning. You're like, oh, yeah, I could fall asleep pretty quickly pretty soon. But tired, tired is everything else.

[Andy Tagle]

Maybe you think you need a nap, but really you're just feeling unmotivated at work or fed up with your partner. Maybe you're anxious about finances or in need of fresh air or more light, or maybe you're just dehydrated.

[Jade Wu]

When we make that distinction, then we know where to look for the cure. You know, do I need to drink more water or do I need to go take a nap?

[Andy Tagle]

As is so often the case here at Life Kit, what it comes down to is simple. Just listen to your body. For me, my body is almost always calling for sleep. I hit a quick snooze just as often as I can. For others, naps might not be desired or even possible at all. Back to that internal clock.

[Jade Wu]

Not everybody has to nap, and not everybody can nap. Some people's circadian rhythms just are so strongly tuned in such a way that, you know, just we do not sleep during the day. We only sleep when it's dark at night, and that's perfectly fine.

[Andy Tagle]

So maybe your internal master clock is set to run on a straight eight hours of sleep through the night. Or maybe you're more like me and are wound for a disco nap just about every day. Knowing which you are can help you plan accordingly.

[Seema Khosla]

And that may change over time, too. You know, our sleep needs, you know, in broad terms, we think seven to nine hours. But there's some variability, and we've all experienced that where you sleep for 10 hours or 12 hours when you're not feeling well, just as we, you know, sometimes if you haven't done a whole lot during the day, you haven't been really physically active or mentally active. Maybe you don't need as much sleep that night.

[Andy Tagle]

Now, it's important to note that there are also people who shouldn't take A nap. Like if you suffer from insomnia or other sleep disorders, experience poor quality sleep.

[Seema Khosla]

At night, or if you are somebody that struggles to fall asleep at night, then perhaps avoiding the nap is the right advice for you.

[Andy Tagle]

So if you have any concerns about your sleep, definitely consult your doctor before making changes to your sleep schedule. Now, once you've taken stock and decided it is indeed nap o', clock, we'll move to takeaway. 3. Taking a great nap is as simple as C, E, B. Ever woken up from a nap and felt more tired and then sat up and been like, wait, what planet am I on?

[Seema Khosla]

If you wake up from deep sleep, sometimes you feel almost drunk from sleep. The term that we use is called sleep inertia, where that sleep just follows you into wakefulness.

[Andy Tagle]

Sleep inertia is a sign that you're overshooting your napping mark. That can slow you down in the short term and potentially sabotage your nighttime sleep in the long run. How do you avoid that? Keep these three simple parameters in mind.

[Jade Wu]

We want to be consistent and early and brief.

[Andy Tagle]

Let's take each of those one by one. First up, C. Consistent.

[Jade Wu]

I mean, not haphazardly. Sometimes early, sometimes late, sometimes, you know, long, sometimes short. We want to be, you know, taking a leaf out of the Mediterranean cultures. If you're going to have a siesta, do it at the same time every day.

[Andy Tagle]

Then there's E for early midday.

[Jade Wu]

Early afternoon would be excellent.

[Andy Tagle]

Jade suggests aiming for a nap between noon and 3pm during the day or for the night owls and shift workers out there.

[Seema Khosla]

Usually we want you six hours or more before your larger sleep period is that if you're going to take a nap, have it done by then.

[Andy Tagle]

And finally, there's B for brief. This one might be painful if you're a fan of a long, leisurely afternoon snooze.

[Seema Khosla]

But if you're taking a two hour nap, that almost becomes an additional sleep period. And then you could argue that maybe you're engaging in what's called polyphasic sleep, where you're doing a little bit at night, a little bit during the day, you're not doing it all at once.

[Andy Tagle]

So Jade says 30 minutes to an hour tops.

[Jade Wu]

If you set a timer for about 45 minutes, give yourself a few minutes to get into sleep, you'll probably end up sleeping about 30ish minutes and that's pretty safe. That's good.

[Andy Tagle]

Seema's version of brief is even briefer.

[Seema Khosla]

A short nap is typically what we Recommend, you know, 10 or 20 minutes. And the idea behind that is that you probably will remain in the lighter phases of sleep rather than getting into the deeper phases of sleep, where sometimes it's a little bit harder to wake up.

[Andy Tagle]

A quick note here. Every phase of sleep is important. If you do any sort of sleep tracking, you might have noticed there is.

[Seema Khosla]

This assumption that only the deep sleep is what we want and there's something wrong if we are only in, you know, quote unquote light sleep. But the reality is that we need it all. They all have a job to do and they work together. It helps with our immune system, but it also helps with our brain.

[Andy Tagle]

But for quick naps, it's best and more likely to stay in lighter phases of sleep. If you find yourself falling asleep quickly and dipping into deep sleep with only 30 minutes of napping, that's actually a.

[Jade Wu]

Sign that you're not getting enough sleep at night. So that's just a symptom that your brain is so desperate to get into deep sleep that even a 30 minute nap will get you there.

[Andy Tagle]

A lot of dreaming during nap time could be another canary in the coal mine. Your body might just be compensating for not enough REM sleep during the night.

[Jade Wu]

Or if you really consistently and often fall asleep during the day and go directly into rem, that might mean you have narcolepsy.

[Andy Tagle]

All this to say again, listen to your body and do what you can to set yourself up for success. We'll get more into how to do that right after the break.

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[Andy Tagle]

Okay sleepyheads, we're back with more Life Kit. In our quest to better naps, let's also make sure we're practicing overall good sleep hygiene, shall we? That brings us to takeaway 4 Stop committing sleep Sabotage for the very best of naps. Be aware of daytime habits that get in the way of good sleep. Alright, it's time to talk about the great big energy drink sized elephant in the room.

[Seema Khosla]

Sometimes when we are chronically sleep deprived, we are in survival mode. So then it's okay, I've got to get through that afternoon hump. I'm going to have some caffeine and maybe we overdo. So then that sabotages our attempts to fall asleep at night.

[Andy Tagle]

Do you resemble that statement? I know I do. If you want better naps, it's important to be conscious about your caffeine consumption. And we have a Life Kit episode on exactly how to do that if you're interested. But the two can coexist. For example, some people, and by some people I do mean me swear by caffeine naps. That's when you throw back a Diet Coke right before nap time. So by the time you wake up, you feel extra energized and ready to go. And there are studies that back up this practice. But Jade says exercise caution between having.

[Jade Wu]

Caffeine that late and having a nap. You might be setting yourself up to, you know, have difficulty falling asleep that night.

[Andy Tagle]

And Seema agrees. Stay mindful and curious about how caffeine affects your sleep.

[Seema Khosla]

And it doesn't have to be all or none, right? You don't have to have 200 milligrams of caffeine and then take a nap. You could have like 60 and then take a nap.

[Andy Tagle]

And then there's how we set up our sleep space. Let's say you're trying to nap in your car over your lunch break.

[Seema Khosla]

What does that look like and how.

[Andy Tagle]

Can we optimize it?

[Seema Khosla]

If you are intentionally going to take a nap, you is it worth bringing a pillow and a blanket and an eye mask? Right? And some earplugs.

[Andy Tagle]

Another tip that was hard for this napper to hear. Keep the same bedtime and wake time on weekends.

[Jade Wu]

Otherwise you're doing social jet lag. So you live in San Diego. So if you get up three hours later than usual on weekends, it's like you've flown from New York to San Diego and back over the course of that weekend. That does not feel good. Right? I'm sure you've done that trip. That jet lag is just brutal.

[Andy Tagle]

As Jade puts it, maintaining a robust circadian clock allows you to cope and recover better from all sorts of stressors. So the occasional unideal sleep situation, like actually getting on an airplane and switching time zones, for example, can be that much easier to manage. Speaking of travel, we've arrived at our final destination. Takeaway 5. Create a mini rest ritual. Because even without napping, daytime rest is crucial to nighttime sleep. This goes back to our caveman brains and that built in circadian dip in energy we all experience in the middle of the day. Honoring that pause lets your brain know it's okay to settle down at night. If you spend your whole day going 100 miles an hour, that is sending.

[Jade Wu]

The message to our bodies that it's not safe to fall asleep. Because the only reason why you're going, going, going all day without stopping must be because there's a saber toothed tiger on your tail, right? So if that's the case, you better not fall asleep and certainly not into deep sleep. So that's why daytime rest, even if you don't fall asleep during the day for a full nap, daytime rest is really important.

[Andy Tagle]

That's right. Even if you don't fall asleep. I know this is a hard one, especially if you're desperate for sleep and have precious little time before your fussy baby is up again. Or if you only have exactly 30 minutes of a lunch break.

[Seema Khosla]

I think sometimes if you put a time limit, that itself is stressful, super anxiety inducing.

[Andy Tagle]

Yeah, right.

[Seema Khosla]

Because you're like, okay, has it been 10 minutes?

[Andy Tagle]

Can I peek? Can I look at my watch? I don't know. The fix is to reframe your thinking around your rest period to start some rebranding could be helpful. Like, what does it take exactly to achieve a power nap?

[Seema Khosla]

I think it's because we say it's a power nap.

[Andy Tagle]

Okay. We just declare it. Declaring it makes it so.

[Seema Khosla]

I think so. I think so. Because I'm not sure that there has been any rigorous study on it. And I think it's more because we believe that it restores us. So whatever the duration of time is, a short amount of restorative sleep that makes us feel better afterwards.

[Andy Tagle]

Okay. Simple enough. I'm declaring all my naps moving forward. So option one, fake it till you make it. Option two, maybe you don't have to sleep at all.

[Jade Wu]

If I fall asleep, great. If I don't fall asleep, also great. But what I'm not gonna do is Check my email, scroll through social media, do chores, or do any of those things that further overstimulate me. What you need is true rest. So even if you don't fall asleep, even if you just kind of hang out in a meditative state or do some mindfulness practices or even just let your mind wander, we know from brain scanning studies that those states are really restful and really special and can be rejuvenating in a similar way that a nap can be rejuvenating.

[Andy Tagle]

If you have a nighttime routine that helps you wind down, you can do.

[Seema Khosla]

Something similar, sort of like a short version of that to ease you into your nap. Particularly if it's the same place, right, that if you work from home and you are able to sleep in your bedroom and you usually do like a 10 minute meditation before you go to bed, maybe do a five minute meditation before you take a nap.

[Andy Tagle]

Jade plays Beethoven to cue nap time for her kids and herself. Seema is a fan of box breathing.

[Seema Khosla]

You breathe in for 4 seconds and you hold for 4 seconds and you breathe out for 4 seconds and you hold for four seconds.

[Andy Tagle]

Audiobooks and podcasts are another favorite for winding down. We might be able to help you there.

[Jade Wu]

And I'm not just saying that because we're on a podcast right now, but truly, NPR is a really good pre bedtime podcast for, you know, station.

[Andy Tagle]

No matter what relaxation method you choose, remember you can only do what you can do.

[Jade Wu]

Sometimes it's not possible to nap and rest in the ideal way that we've talked about, but it's always possible to prioritize your health and wellness, even in little ways.

[Andy Tagle]

Don't let perfection be the enemy of good. Nap when you can, where you can the best you can. But the key here is you just really need and deserve to rest, even.

[Jade Wu]

If it's just for just a tiny bit of time. Get out of your head, into your body and whatever tasks you can do. Being mindful. Do that, you know, as you walk from your car to the office, from your car to the grocery store. Walk mindfully, be in that moment with your body and that goes a long way.

[Andy Tagle]

Okay, let's recap softly and slowly just in case any of you are using this podcast to settle down for your early afternoon snooze. Takeaway 1 Naps are supplemental to your nighttime routine, not a replacement. Takeaway 2 Not everyone needs a nap, so if it's not happening, don't stress it. Takeaway 3 Aim for naps that are C, E, B consistent, early and brief. Takeaway 4. Stop committing sleep sabotage for the very best of naps. Be intentional about all of your sleep takeaway. 5. Daytime rest is crucial for nighttime sleep. Even if a nap isn't possible, make time for a daily ritual of rest.

[Marielle Segarra]

That was Life Kit reporter Andy Tagle, and that's our show. Hey, did you know that Life Kit has its own newsletter? I think you're gonna like it. We have so many smart, supportive listeners that send us amazing tips of their own, and they are often featured in our weekly newsletter. So if you want to be part of that community, [e-mail] LifeKitnewsletter this episode of Life Kit was produced by Andy Tagle. Our visuals editor is Beck Harlan and our digital editor is Malika Grebe. Meghan Keane is our senior supervising editor and Beth Donovan is our executive producer. Our production team also includes Claire Marie Schneider, Margaret Serino and Sylvie Douglas. Engineering support comes from Gilly Moon and Stacy Abbott. I'm Marielle Segarra.

[Seema Khosla]

Thank you for listening.

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