Life Kit (NPR): How to Work with Your Social Anxiety

Host: Marielle Segarra
Guests: Dr. Ali Mattu (Clinical Psychologist), Dr. Fallon Goodman (Psychologist & Professor, George Washington University)
Reporter: Andy Tagle
Date: November 18, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode tackles the universally uncomfortable experience of social anxiety. Life Kit host Marielle Segarra and reporter Andy Tagle dig into why social situations can set our nerves on edge—even for the most seemingly confident people—and offer expert-backed, practical tools for managing both everyday social anxiety and more severe social anxiety disorder. Through conversations with psychologist Dr. Fallon Goodman and clinical psychologist Dr. Ali Mattu, the episode aims to demystify social anxiety, encourage listeners to “befriend” it, and provide actionable advice for navigating everything from office parties to high-stakes presentations.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Understanding Social Anxiety (00:18–04:51)

• Everyday vs. Clinical Social Anxiety:

  • There are two ends of the social anxiety spectrum:
    • General, situational anxiety (dates, presentations, parties)
    • Social Anxiety Disorder (SAD) – affects ~13% of Americans
  • Dr. Fallon Goodman (05:50):

    “The first [indicator] is it interfering with the life that you want to live? Is social anxiety interfering with your ability to do your job, relationships, or function?”

• Assessing Your Anxiety:

  • Is your anxiety frequent and intense?
  • Does it persist across interactions, not just high-impact scenarios?
  • Don’t hesitate to seek professional help if it’s overwhelming your life.

• Importance of Social Relationships (07:51):

  • Social connections are vital—missing out can hinder life satisfaction, career, and personal growth.

2. Takeaway 1: Practice Social Courage—Start Small and Build (07:55–11:36)

• The Concept of ‘Social Courage’:

  • Courage is acting despite discomfort, in service of what you value.
  • Dr. Fallon Goodman (08:14):

    “It’s the willingness to do what you want to do in your social life despite the presence of fear…”

• Strategies to Build Confidence:

  • Identify areas in your life where social interactions are easiest and where they’re hardest (10:09).
  • Start with small social tasks:
    • Choose the cashier over self-checkout
    • Compliment someone’s outfit
    • Send a check-in text
    • Ask for help in a public space

• The Value of Repetition:

  • “The more reps you get in, the more of a social callus you build…” (11:03)

• Embracing Awkwardness:

  • Ali Mattu (11:36):

    “The goal is not to eliminate awkwardness from your life. The goal is to learn how to navigate awkwardness… everything you want… is on the other side of awkwardness.”

3. Takeaway 2: Before Social Events—Set Goals, Make a Plan, Anticipate Awkwardness (12:00–15:42)

• Set Small, Concrete Goals:

  • Have a simple objective (talk to one person, ask two questions, etc.).
  • Plan your “escape route” if you need a break; having an exit increases confidence (12:32).

• Name Your Fears:

  • Be honest: What’s the worst that could happen (13:18)?
  • Evidence shows the feared disaster almost never comes true.

• Bring Support (if possible):

  • A plus-one can help, but choose someone who’s genuinely supportive.

• Normalize the Weirdness:

  • Ali Mattu (14:21):

    “Every single social interaction has these lulls… it’s not an awkward silence, it’s just a silence. That is the price of connecting with someone.”

• Caution on “Liquid Courage”:

  • Occasional use is okay; relying on alcohol as a crutch can be problematic (15:06).

4. Takeaway 3: During Social Events—Move the Spotlight Off Yourself (17:50–21:59)

• Shift Your Focus:

  • Social anxiety creates a ‘spotlight effect’ (18:07), making us hyper-aware of ourselves.
  • Flip the attention: focus on your conversation partner.

• Open-Ended Questions & ‘Yes, And...’:

  • Use improv techniques to keep the convo flowing (19:15).
  • Ali Mattu (20:14):

    “The key to social interaction is actually to be interested in the other person… giving your full attention is the greatest thing you can do for someone.”

• Avoid Safety Behaviors:

  • Examples: Staying silent, hiding behind your phone, oversharing.
  • These behaviors can backfire, making others see you as uninterested or distant (20:53).

5. Takeaway 4: After Social Events—Debrief, Reflect Honestly, and Try Again (22:09–24:51)

• Assess the Reality vs. Your Fears:

  • Did your worst-case scenario happen? If not, you gain confidence (22:22).
  • If it did, objectively evaluate: how much did it really affect you?

• Be Honest and Fair:

  • Ask for honest feedback; don’t sugar-coat or catastrophize (22:40).
  • Look for both what went wrong and what went right (23:44).

• Keep Practicing:

  • One exposure isn’t enough; growth comes from repetition (24:27).
  • Ali Mattu (24:51):

    “The only way to gain confidence is to have gone through some awkward, weird social situations, come out the other side and realize… I survived. I know a little bit more now…”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ali Mattu (00:50):

  “It’s kind of like playing a video game on the hard setting.”

• Ali Mattu (01:14):

  “We’re mind readers, where you start to think you know how people are seeing you... and they're judging you. They don't think you're doing a good job.”

• Dr. Fallon Goodman (11:10):

  “Find one person on this planet who has not been rejected. We are rejected and judged all the time… we’re altering our behavior to prevent an outcome that's probably going to happen anyway.”

• Ali Mattu (14:21):

  “It’s not an awkward silence, it’s just a silence. That is the price of connecting with someone.”

• Ali Mattu (20:14):

  “The key to social interaction is actually to be interested in the other person.”

• Fallon Goodman (22:40):

  “Maybe you were really awkward… but you’re breathing, you’re employed, you’re still a member of society.”

Practical Tools & Tips (Timestamps Referenced)

• [07:55] Practice social courage in small ways daily.
• [12:00] Set specific, measurable goals before your event; voice your fears.
• [17:50] During events, move the focus onto others—use open-ended questions and exercise ‘yes, and…’
• [22:09] After events, honestly assess what happened—learn and re-engage.

Final Recap (25:13–26:14)

• Everyday social anxiety and Social Anxiety Disorder are different; don't hesitate to seek professional help if needed.
• Exposure, practice, and gentle honesty with yourself are the pathway to progress.
• “Imperfect progress is still progress.”

Resource: For self-assessment and further help: nationalsocialanxietycenter.com

This summary covers all key concepts and advice presented in the content section of the episode, to provide value for listeners and non-listeners alike.