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Mariel Segarra (4:18)

What can make a good soup? What. What elements or qualities should it have?

Sola El Whaley (4:23)

Well, I think that the most important part of a soup is the broth that's like gonna provide the backbone of flavor. I mean, if you wanna make a good soup, right? We're trying to make a good soup here. So you wanna start with a really flavorful broth. I always keep chicken bone broth in my freezer, so I can make soup at any time, but it doesn't have to be chicken. I think I like to think about broth in like three major categories. You've got your broth stalks and you can make it with meaty bones, such as a chicken broth made with wings or chicken backs or feet, or a beef broth made with knuckles and bones, or a fish broth made with the carcasses of lean white fish. Then you got your veggie broth that you make with all of your simmered bits and ends and, you know, carrots Celery, that kind of thing. And then you have like your steeped broths, kind of like dashi made with kombu or bonito flakes or dried shiitakes. And then once you have one of those like very flavorful, intensely savory broths, you can really, you really can't go wrong from there.

Mariel Segarra (5:35)

On the broth front, should you have a broth ready to go in your fridge or freezer in liquid form or can you, can you make a broth on the spot just with water and some sort of like powder from the supermarket?

Sola El Whaley (5:50)

You totally can make a broth on the spot. I love chicken bouillon. I think it's an amazing ingredient and it's like a lifesaver in a pinch. But when I'm organized, I do like to have some broth in the freezer all the time because it's just like it can make any meal extra delicious and you don't even have to try very hard.

Mariel Segarra (6:12)

Okay, so how do you actually start cooking the soup?

Sola El Whaley (6:14)

You want to start by sweating some stuff. The term sweat just means you're going to cut up your veggies or your aromatics or whatever and let it kind of get tired in the hot fat. Everything's gonna get a little translucent. You're gonna stir it around just in this pot with a little bit of fat and it's gonna pull out all the aroma. So in a recipe that usually starts with like garlic and onion, where it tells you to cook until like wilted and translucent, that pulls out all those fat soluble flavors.

Mariel Segarra (6:42)

And the fat, when you say in the hot fat like that, is that a olive oil or something else?

Sola El Whaley (6:50)

It can be whatever fat you want it to be. It's another place to layer in some flavor. So use whatever you've got. If all you have is olive oil or like a neutral oil, go for it. But yeah, you have some bacon fat around or I don't know, maybe you like rendered some chorizo and you have chorizo fat. You just need a little bit like a couple tablespoons enough to coat all those veggies to really get them melted down. But any fat will work.

Mariel Segarra (7:14)

And if you're cooking like, like my, my favorite soup has crumbled sausage in it. So I think they say put in the garlic and then put in, put in, cut open the sausage and let it come out of the casing and like crumble it into the pan. And I guess that provides the fat that the veggies cook in.

Sola El Whaley (7:31)

Yeah, yeah, you could, you can you can, like, brown your meat and pull the fat out of it. And then if you don't want your meat to get, like, too overcooked, depending on the kind of meat, like if you're using short rib or chicken thighs, they can really handle being simmered forever. So you can just put your chicken thighs in there, render it, and then add everything and let it all cook together. But like with sausage, I would, like, get it nicely browned first and then pull it out and then cook everything in that sausage fat and then throw the sausage in at the end so it doesn't overcook. Every soup recipe is going to be a little different depending on the ingredients you're using. So it's really just thinking about, like, the core steps you need. And then you can, like, level it up. You know, if you're going to blend it, you can add a little cream, a little butter for some richness, or if you want to layer in some, like, spice flavors, you can sizzle some spices in oil, drizzle that on top. You really can't, like, go wrong because there's always a way to fix it. If it's a little too salty, add some more broth. If it's a little too thick, add some water. There's like, you can constantly find your way back to delicious soup.

Mariel Segarra (8:36)

Yeah. When do you boil the soup? Should you boil the soup?

Sola El Whaley (8:43)

So it depends on what part of the world you're in. So with a lot of Western cooking, French in particular, you never boil. It's like a gentle simmer. The goal is to go for, like, a clear broth, a clear soup, delicate flavors. But when we're talking Eastern, particularly, like with like a ramen broth or, you know, a lot of Chinese cuisine, even South Asian, you boil vigorously. And what that boiling does is emulsify everything together, so you end up with more of, like a creamy, rich soup. So if you want something lighter and more clear, go for the really gentle simmer. But if you really want something rich, then go for a boil. There's no right or wrong answer. It's just like, what vibe are you feeling?

Mariel Segarra (9:25)

So I imagine the answer to the next question might be similar. But how long should you be cooking your soups?

Sola El Whaley (9:32)

It really just depends on what's in your soup. So if you're working with, like, quick cooking ingredients, like spinach, shrimp, already cooked beans, then you know it'll be fast, keep it light, keep it fresh. A faster cooked soup is going to have, like a lighter, fresher taste. But sometimes quick cooking ingredients Like a lot of tender herbs like parsley and dill, you can simmer for a long time to go for more of like an earthy flavor. You see that a lot with traditional Persian soups. There's this really delicious celery soup and it's like celery and celery leaves with a lot of dill that's simmered forever. And it takes it from this like really fresh, light, crisp thing into like this earthy, vegetal vibe. So it's like, what kind of soup are you, are you feeling, what are you craving?

Mariel Segarra (10:20)

Yeah. Do you think there are categories of soup and how would you define them?

Sola El Whaley (10:26)

I just think about it as smooth and chunky like peanut butter.

Mariel Segarra (10:30)

If you do want a creamy style soup, what can you use to get there? Both dairy and non dairy ingredients, depending on the vegetable.

Sola El Whaley (10:43)

Sometimes you don't need any dairy. Like you can make a really creamy tomato soup with just tomatoes that are like simmered in a broth or roasted even and then blended. If you really want to, like level it up and make it unctuous, then finish it with a little bit of cream or, or a little bit of coconut milk, a little bit of extra fat or yogurt, something like that. The key with the creamy soup is using a good blender. If when you go to like a restaurant and you have something like really smooth and velvety, you're like, oh, how do they do this? It's, it's a good blender. So I know it can feel like a hassle to pour your soup into a blender, but a stick blender, like, you know, the immersion one that you put right in the pot, I feel like it never quite gets you there. Yeah.

Mariel Segarra (11:26)

When your soup is larger than the size of the blender, how do you make sure that you blend it all? And then also how do you make sure that it doesn't splash back in your face and just scald you? Because that has happened.

Sola El Whaley (11:43)

When you're blending hot liquids, there is a little danger involved. So you're going to have to set yourself up. You're going to have your pot of soup, your blender, and then another vessel where you're gonna land your final blended soup and then ladle in some of your soup into the blender. You never want to go more than halfway, especially when you're blending hot things. Once it gets blended, it really wants to expand and it can explode. So it's important. Never fill your blender up more than halfway. And you know how there's like a little top, like a little, little thing at the top of the blender that you can pull off. Yeah, you want to remove that so the steam has somewhere to go. Otherwise your lid can blow off and cover it with a towel instead. Make sure you start on low, go to high, so you're going to have to work in batches. You're going to have to get another pot dirty. It is like a really big commitment, but it will be so much better.

Mariel Segarra (12:37)

More Life Kit after the break.

Sola El Whaley (12:45)

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Mariel Segarra (14:12)

Are there any key ingredients that you think go well in basically any soup?

Sola El Whaley (14:18)

Something about starting with the base of alliums. Allium is like a broad family of vegetables that includes onions, leeks, shallots, garlic and something about when you cook any allium in fat, it just adds this incredible savoriness and depth and there's like a wide range of flavors you can pull out of it. So if you keep it kind of blonde, you get more of like the sharp, oniony flavor. And then you can go as far as you want from there and take it like to deep caramel and get it very, very sweet. But it's this like really rich base to pretty much everything but especially a soup. And it's particularly helpful to develop a base with Alliums. If you're not using, like, the best quality broth, like, you know, if you're going with a bouillon, starting with some cooked down onions or shallots will really get you far.

Mariel Segarra (15:09)

Any other sort of, like, secret superhero ingredients for a soup? Like, our editor Megan was saying that putting a Parmesan rind in for certain soups can make it really rich.

Sola El Whaley (15:22)

Yeah, that is a really good move. And I was gonna say a pinch of MSG to add a little bit of savory depth, but the Parmesan rind, like, that's also what it's doing. Parmesan is a natural source of, like, a ton of msg. So just, like, adding a little bit rounds it all out, gives you this, like, savory umami thing that makes you want to keep eating more.

Mariel Segarra (15:42)

What do you think about toppings? I feel like we've been seeing a lot of that in recipes lately.

Sola El Whaley (15:50)

I love toppings especially, you know, if you're making a big batch of soup and having it over a couple of days, it can get a little boring. So you can jazz it up with a different topping. If you want to go for something fresh, you can make, like, a little quick kind of salsa vibe with thinly shaved onion and a bunch of herbs and lemon and maybe, like, sumac for maybe a little bit of richness. You could try browning some butter with some spices and drizzle that on top of a little bit of creaminess. You could do a dollop of sour cream or something like that. Or, you know, my favorite move, because leftover soup is something I eat when I'm really rushed for time and tired, just go into the pantry and grab a handful of Fritos and throw them on top. Fritos on top of everything works.

Mariel Segarra (16:36)

How much soup do you make at once?

Sola El Whaley (16:38)

Soup is something that keeps really well and it actually tastes better the next day. So I would like to make soup for, like, at least three days. So I would say for us, a quart is good for one night. So I would make, like, three or four quarts at a time. So we have some leftovers. Soup is great in the fridge for five days, or you can portion it, pop it in the freezer, and it's good for three months. And, you know, it reheats beautifully.

Mariel Segarra (17:03)

And once you take it out of the freezer, do you put it back in a saucepan or the microwave?

Sola El Whaley (17:08)

Yeah, either one. Whatever works best for you. You could do, like, the defrost mode in the microwave, or I usually just dip it In a little hot water so I can pop it out of the container, throw it into the pot with, like, a little splash of water just to, like, get a little steam going at the bottom. Go for, like, a low heat at first just to get everything melted. And then once it's melted, bring it up to a boil. And then whenever you reheat soup, you give it a taste and see if you need to re season it with a bit of salt. And oftentimes it can fall a little flat, and you might need a little squeeze of lemon just to brighten everything up.

Mariel Segarra (17:43)

Okay, an adjacent question. How do you transport soups, like, to the office for lunch? Because I have had soup spill in my tote bag, and it's a disaster.

Sola El Whaley (17:56)

I mean, I think the best thing is to get a big thermos. It'll stay hot, and it's, like, gonna seal really tightly for you. I have this big thermos that, like, holds about a quart. I don't believe it was designed for soup, but I do use it for soup.

Mariel Segarra (18:12)

What's a good, like, fall, spooky season soup?

Sola El Whaley (18:15)

Well, I love honey nut squash. They are super concentrated and sweet in flavor. It's like they took a butternut and shrunk it down, but, like, it still has the same amount of flavor of the big guy. I love roasting that. All you gotta do is cut it in half lengthwise, scoop out the seeds, slather it with some oil and salt, and put it cut down on a sheet tray, pop it in the oven, let it roast at, like, 375, until it's totally tender and the skin kind of shrivels. And then, you know, you get your base going. You gotta get your flavor base going. So I like to do a little onion apple, maybe some, like, Fresno chilies, Get that all wilted down in a little bit of olive oil, and then once it's nice and fragrant, scoop out the flesh from the honey nut, throw that in there, top it off with a bunch of bone broth, let it simmer until everybody gets to know each other. Then blend it, strain it, warm it back up, and then, like, for a little crunchy topping, I love just doing some pepitas.

Mariel Segarra (19:16)

Oh, hell, yeah.

Sola El Whaley (19:17)

Sizzle some pepitas in a little bit of, like, brown butter with a little maple and chili, and pour that on top. And it is a very tasty soup.

Mariel Segarra (19:25)

And if someone is, you know, fairly competent at soup, they've. They've been around the block once or twice. What would you challenge them to make? Whether it's like, try out this ingredient or try out this technique.

Sola El Whaley (19:39)

A soup challenge?

Mariel Segarra (19:41)

Yes.

Sola El Whaley (19:42)

Hmm. Why not try making a Phoenix? The broth is really nuanced, and it can be hard to get the balance of flavor right. Like, it needs just like a tiny bit of star anise. So I think focusing on getting that broth really nicely made. And then after that, it's really just about thinly shaving the beef and bringing it together. But the flavor is really complex, so I think a pho is a good way to go.

Mariel Segarra (20:07)

All right, Zola, thank you so much. This was great and I'm excited to make soups now.

Sola El Whaley (20:12)

Awesome. Thank you for having me.

Mariel Segarra (20:14)

All right, it's recap time. Good soup starts with good broth. This is your flavor backbone if you can keep some kind of broth in your freezer, but also bouillon powder or cubes can work in a pinch. When you're making a soup, sweat some stuff in fat, like veggies or garlic. Now, the fat might be drippings from sausage or olive oil or whatever cooking fat you have on hand. If you're browning meat for the soup, you might scoop it out once it's brown and then put it back in towards the end so it doesn't get dry or overcooked. Some soups you're going to boil, others you won't. It depends on the type. If you're blending a soup to make it smooth, a standing blender works better than a hand blender. And just remember to take out that little plastic piece on the lid because if you don't, the steam builds up and the lid flies off and then there's hot soup everywhere. Soup is great for leftovers. Make it in a big pot and freeze some. And if you want to bring it to work or somewhere outside your house, try a thermos. Keeps it hot and keeps it from spilling. For more Life Kit, check out our other episodes. We've got one about how to think through ingredient substitutions when you're cooking and another about meal prep. You can find those@npr.org LifeKit and if you love Life Kit and want even more, subscribe to our newsletter@npr.org LifeKitnewsletter Also, we love hearing from you, so if you have episode ideas or feedback you want to share, email us@lifekitpr.org this episode of Life Kit was produced by the super Sylvie Douglas. Our visuals editor is Beck Harlan, and our digital editor is Malika Green. Megan Kane is the supervising editor. Beth Donovan is our executive producer. Our production team also includes Andy Tagle, Claire Marie Schneider and Margaret Serino. Engineering support comes from Philip Edforce. I'm Mariel Segarra. Thanks for listening. Foreign.

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