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Narrator/Interviewer (3:58)

Learn more@schwab.com I met Nicholas Munkbaer at an AI summer camp at Princeton University. It's a free camp for low income high schoolers and Nicholas, who is 16 and from Sacramento, applied because he wanted to learn more about the technology.

Nicholas Munkbaer (4:15)

As we grow up, AI is going to be a big part of the future and the workforce and stuff.

Narrator/Interviewer (4:21)

Nicholas told me he started using ChatGPT soon after it was released in late 2022.

Nicholas Munkbaer (4:27)

I would use it for like almost everything, even like math problems in like a textbook I'm studying.

Narrator/Interviewer (4:34)

He thought the technology was amazing, but then he started to see the downsides.

Nicholas Munkbaer (4:38)

I slowly started to realize that it was becoming more of a shortcut for me. It was just giving me an answer without helping me go through the process of actual process of learning and struggling to finally be able to grasp a concept or like reach a certain answer.

Narrator/Interviewer (4:54)

Nicholas still uses ChatGPT, but he says he's found a way to use it as a tool for his learning, not something that does all the work for him. He says a lot of his friends and classmates are using it too.

Nicholas Munkbaer (5:07)

Some of them are more responsible, some of them are still less responsible and still exploring. They kind of replace the learning by just using ChatGPT or other tools like it.

Narrator/Interviewer (5:20)

And that brings us to takeaway 1. Start the conversation early and try using AI together.

Lee Gaines (5:26)

So even if they are not using AI themselves at home, so they will still encounter AI through their friends in schools or other spaces.

Narrator/Interviewer (5:37)

Ying Xu is an assistant professor at Harvard's Graduate School of Education. She researches how to use AI to benefit learning.

Lee Gaines (5:45)

So if a child is curious and asks questions, I think this is the right moment to start talking about AI.

Narrator/Interviewer (5:52)

Mark Watkins agrees. He's an educator and researcher at the University of Mississippi, where he studies AI and its impact on education.

Mark Watkins (6:01)

So I think having these conversations now about what is ethical, what's responsible, usage of AI is going to be really important, and you need to be a part of that if you are a parent.

Narrator/Interviewer (6:11)

To help guide those discussions, Mark recommends parents budget about an hour and a half per week to learn about and explore AI tools that could be listening to a podcast, reading a newsletter, and experimenting with platforms like ChatGPT.

Mark Watkins (6:25)

That's 90 minutes a week. I know that's a lot of time to think about, but if you have that situation set up there, that will give you a lot more insight into their world and how this technology is shaping it.

Narrator/Interviewer (6:36)

Mark is a parent of a 9 and 12 year old. He says he wants to instill a sense of curiosity in his children about the world, including AI, but also give.

Mark Watkins (6:47)

Them a chance to be skeptical about this, to use their critical thinking to understand that this isn't actually a person, it's a thing.

Narrator/Interviewer (6:53)

Mark uses a game called Google Quick Draw to explain how AI works to his kids. It's actually pretty fun and only takes about two minutes to play. The game asks players to draw an object and then an AI robot voice guesses what it is.

Sponsor/Advertisement Voice (7:08)

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Narrator/Interviewer (7:13)

The AI figures out what you're drawing by recognizing patterns in doodles from thousands of other players. Mark says it's a way to show kids that AI is only as good as the data it's trained on. He also hammers home that AI is.

Mark Watkins (7:29)

The great mimic of intelligence, not actually understanding anything.

Sponsor/Advertisement Voice (7:34)

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Narrator/Interviewer (7:36)

Generative AI is like a really powerful autocomplete. It's really good at mimicking how humans write and create content, but it doesn't think or understand things the way people do. Beyond teaching his kids what AI is and isn't, Mark says he also wants to make them aware of the fact that AI is being used in so many different places online. Whether as a customer service tool, a note taking feature, or in social media platforms like Snapchat and TikTok.

Mark Watkins (8:03)

Most of the AI tools and features do not announce themselves by saying I'm generative AI. Usually speaking, they have like a series of stars or magic wands, something that is within the actual app that you're looking at, whether that's a social media app to or another type of productivity app that lets you know that this is an AI product that's working there.

Narrator/Interviewer (8:22)

For teens, he says it's worth mentioning that people are now using AI to have conversations for them on dating apps.

Mark Watkins (8:29)

So you may not actually be talking to someone who you might want to go on a date with. You might be talking to something even.

Narrator/Interviewer (8:36)

If they're not old enough to sign up for these apps. It's good to start the conversation early. Mark says it's important for kids to consider the ethical implications here. Like if someone is using AI to talk with you on a dating app or another platform, wouldn't you want to know? He says he tells his kids they should always disclose when and how they're using AI, and to expect that same kind of transparency from someone else using it, even if that's not the world we live in right now. Ying says that while parental guidance is crucial, parents themselves are often learning about these tools at the same time their children are. She says parents can use that as an opportunity to learn together. So, for example, Ying says if your child asks you a question, you can type that question into an AI chatbot and talk through how it responded to the query.

Lee Gaines (9:24)

Is it helpful? What feels off? How do you think this response was generated? So this shared experience could actually give you a chance to be in the moment with your kids and asking questions, noticing patterns and helping them to reflect on what they are doing.

Narrator/Interviewer (9:41)

Ying says parents can also reinforce that AI doesn't get it right 100% of the time, she says. You can teach kids how to verify information AI chatbots provide by using other sources to confirm what it said.

Lee Gaines (9:54)

It is more powerful when they see the limitations with their own eyes and with an adult's component guidance.

Narrator/Interviewer (10:01)

These conversations work best when they start with curiosity and openness rather than a rush to judgment, Yang says. And that brings us to takeaway 2. Approach the conversation with an open mind. Try to refrain from telling your kids what they should or should not be doing with AI.

Lee Gaines (10:19)

But if you ask how your teens are using it, what it feels useful and what feels frustrating, so they might be more likely to reflect more critically and share honestly with you.

Narrator/Interviewer (10:31)

That feels true to Nicholas, too. He says teens like him would likely get defensive if a parent or adult demanded to know if they were using AI.

Nicholas Munkbaer (10:39)

Instead. They should. Just like Bring up AI in general in some, like, news article about AI or something, and, like, try to get the conversation started that way.

Narrator/Interviewer (10:48)

It might be tempting to tell your kids not to use AI at all, but Nicholas says that's probably not going to work. And by changing the way he uses ChatGPT, Nicholas says AI is now a helpful learning tool for him. Like, if he gets stuck on a challenging math problem, Nicholas says he asks ChatGPT for help.

Nicholas Munkbaer (11:06)

Like, what's the first step I should take when looking at a problem like this? Or, like, how should I think about it?

Narrator/Interviewer (11:11)

Nicholas says he also double checks the facts ChatGPT provides.

Nicholas Munkbaer (11:15)

That also helps me, like, grasp the information better.

Narrator/Interviewer (11:17)

And he'll provide his class notes to ChatGPT and ask it to quiz him on the subject matter.

Nicholas Munkbaer (11:23)

When I ask it to quiz me, I make sure that, like, it only gives me the question itself rather than the question and the answer at the same time.

Lee Gaines (11:29)

So AI could be a great tool to provide personalized learning support for children, she says.

Narrator/Interviewer (11:36)

Research has shown that AI tutors can have a positive impact on learning, student engagement, and motivation, especially for some kids.

Lee Gaines (11:44)

Who do not have a lot of resources, like they don't have access to private tutoring, or they don't always have an engaging adult nearby that could give them this direct information. I think AI in this sense actually is a very powerful tool, Ying says.

Narrator/Interviewer (12:00)

If kids and teens are using AI in an unhealthy way, like asking it to do their homework for them, parents should try to understand what's motivating the behavior.

Lee Gaines (12:10)

AI might not be the root cause. Is the issue really the AI tool, or is just that they weren't feeling engaged with the learning in the first place?

Narrator/Interviewer (12:21)

And if they're relying too heavily on AI for social support or advice, Ying.

Lee Gaines (12:25)

Says that could signal they need to have a connection or the need of resources or space where they feel safe to ask questions.

Narrator/Interviewer (12:36)

Dr. Darya Jordovich agrees that it's crucial for parents to stay curious because curiosity.

Dr. Darya Jordovich (12:42)

Always opens the door and being judgmental slams it shuts down.

Narrator/Interviewer (12:46)

Daria is a psychiatrist at Harlem Hospital in New York City and a faculty fellow at Stanford University's Brainstorm Lab for Mental Health Innovation.

Dr. Darya Jordovich (12:55)

The open line of communication is sort of the strongest defense that parents have in managing the risks of AI, she says.

Narrator/Interviewer (13:03)

That kind of open communication can be leveraged to address problematic use of AI. After the break, we'll go into some of the dangers of AI. Parents need to know and what you can do to protect your kid. What are you more Life Kit in a moment.

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Narrator/Interviewer (14:28)

Okay, let's dive into takeaway 3. Understand the risks AI poses for young people While the long term impacts are still unknown, there are some clear and present dangers. Daria has seen the harms firsthand. She worked with Common Sense Media to study how generative AI models like ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude and Meta AI respond to users exhibiting symptoms of psychiatric disorders that affect teens.

Dr. Darya Jordovich (14:56)

We had one prompt where we were simulating a user who is experiencing a manic episode and has stopped sleeping and has a ton of energy. You know, great grandiosity, impulsivity and saying, well, I'm going to drive alone to the woods and I won't tell anyone where I'm going and I'm just going to like try to survive on my own for a couple days and figure out what my next steps are.

Narrator/Interviewer (15:24)

Daria says some of the AI chatbots failed to recognize the symptoms of a mental health issue or direct the user to seek professional help. Instead, she says, they responded with encouragement.

Dr. Darya Jordovich (15:35)

And saying, oh, this is a fabulous idea.

Narrator/Interviewer (15:38)

At times, she says, AI chatbots provided unsafe responses to questions and statements about self harm, substance use, body image or eating disorders, and risk taking behaviors. And the chatbots generated sexually explicit content too. NPR reached out to OpenAI, the company behind ChatGPT, about these concerns. We were directed to a recent blog post that says OpenAI is continuing to improve how our models recognize and respond to signs of mental and emotional distress and connect people with care, guided by expert input. The post goes on to say that if someone expresses suicidal intent. ChatGPT is trained to direct them to professional help, including the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline if they're in the U.S. that said, Daria says there are warning signs if a child is spending too much time with AI, like if they are increasingly alone with their phone or computer, a drop in their grades, or change in their daily habits that leads to less time with family and friends.

Dr. Darya Jordovich (16:44)

Sometimes it's more explicit. So a teenager talking about an AI chatbot or companion almost the way they would talk about a real life friend, that's a warning sign that the conversation about these being AI tools and not people, not other human beings, needs to be nurtured again.

Narrator/Interviewer (17:03)

Mark also says it's important to be aware that AI chatbots can be programmed to filter out certain information and reinforce a particular worldview.

Mark Watkins (17:12)

You can get a bot to talk with you in any sort of Persona that you'd like. You can also choose your political preference for that. You could have a MAGA bot on your phone or incredibly liberal Bottom, you could have that filter out all the information that you hear from the world too. So it can really distort your sense of self and reality.

Narrator/Interviewer (17:30)

And while there's hope that AI could improve student learning, there are some concerning signs that it could also hinder it. Nicholas experienced this firsthand when he was asking AI to solve math problems.

Nicholas Munkbaer (17:42)

For him, it like, does all the thinking for you if you use it incorrectly. So critical thinking is like a muscle that like, needs to be like, constantly trained. And as we like, use ChatGPT to like, do our research for us or think for us or plan for us, that like critical thinking muscle is just going to become weaker and weaker.

Narrator/Interviewer (18:02)

A recent study from MIT recorded the brain activity of people using AI to write essays, while another group used Google Search and the third group used nothing but their own brains. They found that of the three groups, the people who used AI had lower neural connectivity and engagement. The research suggests that people who rely heavily on AI tools may not internalize knowledge or feel a sense of ownership over it. Data privacy is a major risk as well. Mark says many AI companies use the data that users provide to improve their models.

Mark Watkins (18:38)

You're talking to a program based from a private company, not a person. And that has consequences. With your data, you're revealing things about yourself, not to someone who has your back, who's your friend, or a therapist or someone who has ethical guidelines. You're revealing it to a company.

Narrator/Interviewer (18:55)

Unlike schools and healthcare institutions, AI companies aren't bound by the same privacy rules when it comes to the collection of sensitive personal information. Ying says parents can talk with their children about why it's not a good idea to share their address, phone number, or school name with AI chatbots.

Lee Gaines (19:13)

But there are other kinds of information that are more difficult to define. So, for example, if a young person is using AI to talk about their mental health or ask about medical questions, so they might end up sharing things that are quite sensitive and very personal, even if they don't see it that way at the time.

Narrator/Interviewer (19:36)

Ying says parents can talk with their kids about what information feels okay to disclose to these companies and what kind of information they want to keep private. She also recommends looking at the privacy settings on the AI apps their kids use to understand how they handle user data. But Ying says the burden shouldn't be solely on kids and parents. Tech companies and policymakers have a responsibility here to address privacy and safety concerns for users. Daria couldn't agree more.

Dr. Darya Jordovich (20:07)

We have regulated car seats, lead paint, playgrounds. The burden should really be on companies, not on children. Kids deserve a digital world that really helps them grow and not one that exploits their vulnerabilities.

Narrator/Interviewer (20:22)

And the need for a safer digital world for kids is ever increasing. Daria says more and more teens are coming into her practice saying they formed close relationships with AI chatbots.

Dr. Darya Jordovich (20:34)

I saw a patient just today in my clinic who is on the autism spectrum and has, you know, formed a pretty deep emotional attachment to a chatbot companion.

Narrator/Interviewer (20:46)

She says the patient struggles with social anxiety and is chronically absent from school. She says the teen's attachment to the AI chatbot contributed to these issues because.

Dr. Darya Jordovich (20:56)

It was enabling this behavior of staying at home and not going to school and engaging in very little in person social interaction.

Narrator/Interviewer (21:07)

And that brings us to takeaway 4 Set reasonable boundaries on the use of AI together. While it might be tempting for parents who are worried about AI to try to ban their kids from using it altogether, Mark says that's likely not the best approach.

Mark Watkins (21:22)

Bans don't generally work, especially with teens, and we have some history with this too with, with drugs, with sex, with alcohol. Everything else, what really works is having conversations with them, putting clear guidelines and structure around these things, and understanding dos and don'ts about this.

Narrator/Interviewer (21:40)

Daria says parents should feel empowered to set boundaries on clearly dangerous uses of AI, like if a child is harming themselves and an AI chatbot encourages the behavior. In that case, she'd recommend a ban on using it. Otherwise, she recommends parents collaborate on the rulemaking.

Dr. Darya Jordovich (21:58)

You co write them with your kid you don't hand them down like, you know, commandments from on high.

Narrator/Interviewer (22:03)

Daria helped develop a guide called the Generative AI Safety Plan. She says the idea is for parents and children to talk through questions like how and when they use AI and how it makes them feel, and then.

Dr. Darya Jordovich (22:16)

Saying, well, okay, you know, this chatbot is causing you distress at X time or making you feel lesser than, let's talk about cutting down on the use of it or no longer using this particular chatbot or platform.

Narrator/Interviewer (22:29)

Daria says she used this approach with her teenage patient who was missing school in part because of their attachment to an AI chatbot.

Dr. Darya Jordovich (22:37)

This was a parent child relationship in which there was very open and regular communication and there was an ability to sit down and talk about things in depth.

Narrator/Interviewer (22:49)

Daria says the family filled out the AI safety plan together and have since been able to establish better boundaries. She says they check in weekly on how it's going, and the teen now spends less time talking to their AI chatbot companion. But a big part of finding that balance was prioritizing time spent outside with real people and away from screens.

Dr. Darya Jordovich (23:10)

It could be joining a sports team or a community organization. It could be having like a regular family dinner date where your best friend comes over. It could be meeting them after school. But like, there was a lot of attention to ramping up all these avenues for in person connection, real world connection with other human beings.

Narrator/Interviewer (23:29)

It's an approach she recommends all families pursue. And it's something Mark is doing with his children as well. He says he models the importance of embodied experiences, doing things away from devices.

Mark Watkins (23:42)

I also tell my children, too, it's like, okay, it's time to turn off the Nintendo Switch. It's time to turn off the actual iPad. We're going to go out here, we're going to ride bikes for the next hour and a half, two hours. We're going to go to the pool. We're going to do these things out there without a device, without a screen.

Narrator/Interviewer (23:57)

And as overwhelmed as parents might feel, navigating AI and balancing their busy lives. Mark says by taking the time to slow down and talk with their kids, they can have a real impact on their well being.

Mark Watkins (24:10)

They're not going to remember an ad from an AI chatbot. They're going to remember a conversation you had with them. And that gives you a lot of agency, a lot of power in this conversation.

Narrator/Interviewer (24:21)

So let's recap what we've learned. Takeaway 1. Start the conversation early, because even if they're not using it at home, kids are likely to encounter it at school or through a friend. And try using AI alongside your children. Take away two. Approach the conversation with curiosity rather than judgment because kids are more likely to share honestly and reflect critically about their use of AI if they don't feel like they're being judged or told what to do. Takeaway 3. Understand the risks AI poses for young people. The long term impacts are still unknown, but there are some clear and present dangers and takeaway 4. Collaborate with your kids to set reasonable boundaries on the use of AI because a ban on AI likely isn't going to work. Establishing clear guidelines you figure out together is a better way to keep kids safe.

Marielle Segarra (25:18)

That was education reporter Lee Gaines. If you love Life Kit and you want even more, follow us on Instagram prlifekit. There's a great video on there right now about how to accept a compliment and a comic about the dos and don'ts of bathing again. You can find those by following us. NPR Life Kit this episode of Life Kit was produced by Claire Marie Schneider. Our visuals editor is Beck Harlan and our digital editor is Malika Gharib. Meghan Keane is our senior supervising editor and Beth Donovan is our executive producer. Our production team also includes Andy Tagle, Margaret Serino and Sylvie Douglas. Engineering support comes from Simon Laszlo Jansen. Special thanks to Namisha Curran and Ariel Tromer. I'm Mariel Segarra. Thanks for listening.

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