Podcast Summary: "Limited Supply"
Episode: S12 E10 - The Data-Driven Way to Make More Money Online
Host: Nik Sharma
Guest: Dylan Ander, Founder & CEO of Heatmap.com
Release Date: June 11, 2025
Introduction
In Episode 12 of Season 10 of Limited Supply, host Nik Sharma delves deep into the intricacies of Conversion Rate Optimization (CRO) with Dylan Ander, the founder and CEO of Heatmap.com. The conversation bridges tactical approaches and psychological insights into CRO, aiming to equip listeners with strategies to significantly boost their online revenue.
Guest Introduction
[01:08] Dylan Ander:
Dylan elucidates his extensive background in e-commerce and CRO. Having launched and exited two e-commerce stores during his college years, Dylan expanded his expertise by founding Nexcore Media and later Heatmap.com, his eighth business venture. His agency, Splittesting.com, became the largest CRO agency in the e-commerce space, working with renowned clients like True Classic, Hexclad, and Claire's.
Notable Quotes:
- Dylan Ander [02:18]: "After that I built an agency, Nexcore Media. Had several failed ventures between."
- Dylan Ander [02:42]: "We optimize billions in E com revenue. Now on Heatmap we're collecting trillions."
The Importance of CRO
Nik Sharma emphasizes the critical role of CRO in maximizing online revenues. While many performance marketing agencies focus predominantly on ad creative testing within platforms like Meta Ads Manager, Dylan argues that optimizing the website itself is paramount for converting clicks into actual sales.
Notable Quotes:
- Nick Sharma [03:25]: "Why do you think CRO is so important?"
- Dylan Ander [03:52]: "The purpose of the website... if your only salesman is terrible, you're not gonna close."
Dylan further explains that CRO is about understanding and enhancing the user's journey on the website, ensuring that the click from an ad translates into a conversion through effective website design and messaging.
Split Testing vs. Live Testing
A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the methodologies of split testing and live testing in CRO.
Split Testing: Dylan highlights that many believe CRO is synonymous with split testing, which is a misconception. Split testing involves running controlled experiments to compare different versions of a webpage to determine which performs better.
Notable Quotes:
- Dylan Ander [13:51]: "I hate the name CRO because it's conversion rate optimization."
- Dylan Ander [14:08]: "So it's the CROs more so than the media buyers..."
Live Testing: In contrast, live testing involves making real-time changes to the website and observing the impact without running simultaneous tests. While it carries higher risks, it's faster and doesn't require substantial traffic.
Notable Quotes:
- Dylan Ander [15:04]: "There's split testing and there's live testing. Live testing just means putting something live and monitoring heavily."
- Dylan Ander [16:18]: "If you're trying to build a whole brand new bundle builder, you can’t use URL redirects effectively with split testing... so instead, run separate ad sets."
Nik and Dylan discuss scenarios where one might prefer split testing over live testing and vice versa, emphasizing that both strategies have their place in a comprehensive CRO approach.
Heatmap.com's Innovative Web Analytics
Dylan introduces Heatmap.com's latest product: an advanced web analytics tool designed to surpass traditional solutions like Hotjar and Clarity by integrating revenue-centric metrics directly into heatmaps and screen recordings.
Key Features:
- Revenue Tied Data: Unlike standard heatmaps that track clicks without context, Heatmap.com links user interactions directly to revenue outcomes.
- Advanced Filtering: Users can filter data based on various parameters such as AOV (Average Order Value), traffic source, and more.
- Affordability: Priced at $149 per month for the full behavioral suite, making it accessible to a broader range of businesses.
Notable Quotes:
- Dylan Ander [32:35]: "Heatmap.Com before and you're in E commerce. Like, you know, you're definitely using Hotjar or Clarity at the moment."
- Dylan Ander [33:00]: "Clicks are very misleading... So it could be them leading you completely wrong."
Nik shares his positive experience using Heatmap.com with his clients, highlighting the tool’s effectiveness in differentiating between clicks that drive revenue and those that don’t.
AI's Role in CRO
The conversation shifts to the future of AI in Conversion Rate Optimization. While Dylan expresses skepticism about the current hype surrounding AI, he acknowledges its potential in automating and enhancing CRO processes.
Key Points:
- Skepticism About AI: Dylan argues that much of what is branded as AI is essentially advanced logic and decision trees.
- Self-Optimizing Websites: Although many companies aspire to create self-optimizing websites using AI, Dylan doubts their feasibility, emphasizing the necessity of human insight and customer feedback.
- Upcoming Innovations: Dylan hints at Heatmap.com's forthcoming features that aim to revolutionize the CRO landscape by eliminating the need for split testing and personalization without website modifications.
Notable Quotes:
- Dylan Ander [37:53]: "I'm starting to hate the word AI... It's just NLP which is natural language processing..."
- Dylan Ander [40:44]: "That's all I can give guys. But like, yeah, like just even if you don't sign up for Heat Map..."
Nik Sharma and Dylan Ander brainstorm future AI applications in CRO, discussing the integration of AI agents and automated workflows to enhance website optimization seamlessly.
Final Tips and Takeaways
As the episode wraps up, Dylan offers actionable advice for listeners aiming to improve their website's conversion rates.
Key Recommendations:
- Run Customer Feedback Surveys: Allow customers to express what they want, enabling businesses to tailor their copy and offerings directly to customer needs.
- Ask "What" and "How" Questions: Utilize tactical questioning to gain deeper insights into customer preferences and behaviors.
- Leverage Data Across Platforms: Use insights from website data to inform ad copy, subject lines, and content strategies across all marketing channels.
Notable Quotes:
- Dylan Ander [45:17]: "Run a customer feedback survey, let them tell you what to make your copy and just do it."
- Dylan Ander [46:14]: "The only best practice CRO in the world is just asking your customers, looking at data and just fucking doing it."
Nik echoes these sentiments, emphasizing the importance of leveraging gathered data to refine and enhance all aspects of marketing and website design.
Conclusion
Episode S12 E10 of Limited Supply offers a comprehensive exploration of Conversion Rate Optimization through the expertise of Dylan Ander. Listeners gain valuable insights into effective CRO strategies, the differentiation between split and live testing, and the transformative potential of advanced web analytics tools like Heatmap.com. The discussion also provides a critical perspective on the role of AI in CRO, advocating for data-driven, customer-centric approaches over mere technological advancements.
Dylan Ander’s Resources:
- Website: heatmap.com
- Newsletter: Conversion Party
- Book: Billion Dollar Websites: Lessons from Optimizing $5 Billion
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