Belle Burden on Bad Prenups, Betrayal & Finding Yourself on the Other Side

Summary

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Lipstick on the Rim – Episode Summary

Episode: Belle Burden on Bad Prenups, Betrayal & Finding Yourself on the Other Side
Date: March 17, 2026
Hosts: Molly Sims & Emese Gormley
Guest: Belle Burden, author of Strangers: A Memoir of a Marriage

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Overview

This episode offers a deeply honest look at major personal upheaval—betrayal, divorce, and the rebuilding of self—through the lived experience of Belle Burden. Belle discusses her memoir, Strangers, which chronicles the sudden collapse of her 20-year marriage in the early days of the pandemic and the lessons, pain, and growth that followed. The conversation is raw and compassionate, geared toward listeners who may find themselves at a similar crossroads, with emphasis on healing, self-awareness, financial literacy, and moving forward with dignity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction: The Shock of Sudden Upheaval

• The hosts frame the episode around the sometimes-unspoken experience of betrayal and marital endings, stressing that few are prepared for such life-altering events.
• Emese: "[Belle's] story is deeply personal, but what makes it so powerful is... how much women can learn from it." (03:23)
• Purpose: To extract practical and emotional lessons from Belle’s journey for women facing pivots and heartbreak.

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Belle’s Story: Discovery and Rupture

The Discovery (05:33–07:32):

• Belle describes March 2020, early COVID lockdown on Martha's Vineyard with her husband and three children.
• Life seemed secure until she received a voicemail from a stranger: "I'm trying to reach Belle. I'm sorry to tell you this, but your husband is having an affair with my wife."
• Immediate disbelief and shock; her husband at first denied significance, but within hours, chose to leave.
  • "At 6am, he walked in fully dressed, bag packed, and said, 'I've decided I want a divorce and I'm leaving.'" (07:01)
• Her three children were 12, 15, and 17 at the time.

The Sandwich & the Prenup (07:51–10:07):

• After telling their children about the divorce, Belle’s husband asked her to make him a sandwich—a moment that sparked strong reactions among readers.
  • "I made the sandwich... This is the last sandwich I'm ever going to make you, and it's going to be amazing." (09:32 – Belle)
• Moments later, he was in the basement searching for their prenup, signaling a cold, transactional turn.

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Navigating Immediate Aftermath

• The next period was marked by total emotional devastation, isolation due to the pandemic, and the sense of alienation when support was physically inaccessible (11:43–14:15).
  • "I had to literally try and pick myself up off the bathroom floor... it was just a very dark time." (10:16 – Belle)
• Belle’s children coped differently: one stayed with friends; another became caretaker; her youngest longed for a bedroom at her father’s new apartment—a need unmet because he rented a two-bedroom with the second as an office.

On Parenting Post-Divorce

• Belle navigated explaining her ex’s withdrawal from daily parenting while not demonizing him.
  • “It's more like an uncle, like a friendly uncle." (17:14 – Belle)

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The Divorce Proceedings & Financial Realities

Prenup Lessons (25:19–29:35):

• Belle shares how, despite family advice and her own legal background, she acquiesced to a lopsided amendment to their prenup days before the wedding out of trust and love.
  • "He said, 'I'm going to take care of you now. Nothing bad will ever come of this.'" (25:19 – Belle)
• She put inherited assets (family homes) in joint names, while his substantial earnings remained in his name.
• Belle emphasizes to listeners:
  • "Really get good advice on a prenup and listen to it." (28:08)
  • "Know where everything is. Have quarterly or monthly meetings with your partner to look at everything." (28:57)

The Fallout (29:43–31:30):

• Husband enforced the prenup, claimed half of their homes; she received only child support, none of his amassed wealth.
  • "He gave me none of that. He gives me child support, but I have nothing from that after 20 years." (30:38 – Belle)
• Her own choices, including deferring her passions and financial oversight, became points for reflection but not self-blame.

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Coping, Healing, and Moving Forward

Processing Pain and Self-Blame (34:03–36:26):

• The need to examine and learn from choices without descending into self-criticism.
  • "The hindsight really became not about flaws in myself, but...decisions I had made, which is different than it's your fault... You did it for love. You did it for your family." (35:11 – Belle)

Toolkit for Survival (40:33–42:21):

• Belle’s informal toolkit:
  • Long walks (for meditation and grounding)
  • Focused work (immigration cases)
  • Deepened friendships: valuing people who move toward, not away from pain
  • Writing for personal processing—even if not for publication
  • “There is a path to the other side... You might be able to access parts of yourself that you may have lost a long time ago or have not discovered yet." (40:43 – Belle)

The Unexpected Gifts (42:21–44:33):

• Belle admits she never would have left her marriage, but in hindsight sees having been "forced" out led to self-actualization.
  • "I never would have chosen to be divorced, but I never would be in this place. And I'm much closer to who I am." (42:40 – Belle)

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Memoir as Empowerment (45:05–46:38)

• Hosts praise Belle’s non-vindictive tone despite deep hurt:
  • "You somehow managed to tell this story and not sound like you hate him." (45:26 – Molly)
• Belle didn’t want to live in an angry place:
  • "When I sign my divorce agreement, I am not going to live in that place anymore." (46:13 – Belle)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On why she wrote:
  • "I've wanted to be very honest about this and very clear about what happened, very honest about my pain.” (04:43 – Belle)
• On asking her ex for closure:
  • "He said, ‘I wish I had an answer for you. It's not your fault. Something broke in me.’ And that's the most I've gotten." (16:15 – Belle)
• On children’s reality:
  • "He can't create a home for you right now... that has to do with him, and that's not you." (17:14 – Belle)
• On prenup advice:
  • "Have quarterly or monthly meetings with your partner to really look at everything, where it all is. And then, no matter how happily married you are, talk about what would happen if it ends." (28:57 – Belle)
• On her own writing revival:
  • "Someone told me I couldn't write. And I stopped writing for 30 years. Something about everything falling away... I was able to write again." (19:16 – Belle)
• On what she’d tell her 10-year-old self:
  • "Don’t let anyone tell you what your talents are—or not. Always believe in yourself... but make sure you're aware of your financial life." (54:24 – Belle)

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Life After “Cracking Open”

• Belle closes with empathy for others in crisis:
  • "I want her to know that she's going to get through it, she will get to the other side, and that... she will become closer to knowing who she is and what her talents are." (53:30)
• Molly and Emese underscore the book’s value for women stuck in “purgatory” or fearing their future alone.

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Important Timestamps & Topics

• 03:11 – Framing the episode: betrayal, endings, self-rediscovery
• 05:33 – Belle recounts the day she found out and her husband's exit
• 07:51 – The "last sandwich" moment; the prenup hunt
• 14:17 – Children's experience, lack of a real home with their father
• 16:15 – Ex-husband's brief explanation for leaving
• 25:19 – Backstory: prenups, family expectations, legal advice ignored
• 29:43 – Divorce fallout: financial consequences, loss of shared assets, lack of spousal support
• 35:11 – Shifting from self-blame to learning
• 40:33 – Her healing "toolkit": walking, working, friends, writing
• 42:21 – Acknowledging the “gift” of being forced to start over
• 45:26 – Maintaining dignity over rage
• 54:24 – Advice to her 10-year-old self

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Final Thoughts

This episode stands as a candid and compassionate resource for women facing unwanted change, showing the value of honesty, community, legal and financial awareness, emotional processing, and eventual hope. Belle Burden’s story, as told on Lipstick on the Rim, is both a cautionary tale and an encouraging guide for anyone confronted with betrayal and the daunting task of starting again.

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Transcript

[Molly Sims]

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[Emisha Gormley]

Hey, I'm Molly Sims. And I'm Emisha Gormley. We're two girls obsessed with one thing, beauty. And by that, we mean everything that makes you look and feel beautiful.

[Molly Sims]

We're calling on our favorite health experts, industry insiders, and friends to answer all

[Emisha Gormley]

your beauty questions with a drink in hand. Definitely with a drink in hand. You're listening to Lipstick on the Rim with Molly Sims. All right, guys, today's episode, I think listen. It's a hard topic to talk about. So many of our listeners, so many of our friends are actually going through it right now. Almost no one prepares us for what happens when the life you trusted disappears without warning.

[Molly Sims]

I mean, it's whether it's a marriage that's ending, a betrayal, or just a complete total midlife reset, it honestly forces you to question who you are, what you believed in, and how can you possibly begin again.

[Emisha Gormley]

Our guest today is Bell Burden. She's the author of Strangers. And if you have followed her story in the past two, three, four months, she wrote an incredible book called Strangers, A Memoir of a Marriage. Her story is deeply personal, but what makes it so powerful is that how much. And hear me clearly, this is why we're having Bell on the podcast. How much women can learn from it.

[Molly Sims]

I mean, while it is a deeply personal story, there's also going to be takeaways that women can actually use when life shifts unexpectedly. So whether you're going through a major transition or just trying to feel more like yourself again, there's so much here that we can all learn from.

[Emisha Gormley]

Your book is so powerful. I have read it. I have read every excerpt in the post about it. I feel like I know your ex husband, I know your kids. You are a beautiful writer.

[Bell Burden]

Thank you so much.

[Emisha Gormley]

I. So many of our friends have either gone through a divorce, gone through infidelity. I have heard a lot and I think for women that you've actually written it down. And to be deeply personable about what happened is extraordinary. And I think you are giving so many women, and maybe men, a little bit of a gift.

[Bell Burden]

I really hope so. That was my goal and it's very contrary to my personality to have done this. I'm a very private and pretty shy person. But from the very beginning, I've wanted to be very honest about this and very clear about what happened, very honest about my pain. And it's really led me to this book, and I hope it helps other women. That's my ultimate goal.

[Emisha Gormley]

We want to talk about rebuilding after rupture. We want to talk about what? Divorce, the D word, betrayal, midlife shock teaches us about our own self identity, our own self trust, and also what now. That's starting again now. But I want to take us back. For the people who haven't read the Post and haven't read the book, tell us a little bit about what happened in that morning of 2020.

[Bell Burden]

Yeah. So it was March of 2020, the second week of COVID lockdown. And I think we all remember how scary that time was, how uncertain. We weren't wearing masks yet, but we were wearing gloves to go to the grocery store. And my husband and I, our two daughters, I also have a son, we quarantined at our house on Martha's Vineyard, which is our favorite place in the world. Felt very safe there. It was very isolated. My husband was chopping wood and making fires and cooking dinner. I was taking walks and trying to keep up with housework. I believed I was very happily married. I was very much in love with my husband. We'd been married for 20 years, had three kids. And I got a phone call one night when I was mopping the floor after dinner. I let it go to voicemail. Cause I didn't recognize the number. And when I played the voicemail, it was a man saying, I'm trying to reach Bell. I'm sorry to tell you this, but your husband is having an affair with my wife. And I was utterly shocked.

[Emisha Gormley]

I mean, I literally have chills. I cannot imagine. I'm sure you almost fell down.

[Bell Burden]

I did almost fall down. I felt very dizzy. And I thought, this can't be true. And then I thought, but he used my name, so this sounds like it might be true. But I thought my husband would explain it. And that night he said it didn't mean anything. It was only a couple of weeks. I love you and only you. And I thought, okay, we're going to be stuck in this house during COVID lockdown. We're going to have to do therapy on Zoom. We're going to have to try and work through this. I don't know how, but we're going to have to do that.

[Molly Sims]

And how old were your children?

[Bell Burden]

Sorry. They were 12, 15 and 17. And so that night we got through the night and he went to sleep in my son's room. And then in the morning at 6am he walked into our bedroom fully dressed with a bag packed and said, I've decided I want a divorce and I'm leaving. And he left the house. He got in a jeep and he got on a ferry and left the island. And from that moment became someone I really did not recognize at all.

[Emisha Gormley]

What in the world happened? I mean, I want you to take. Not that you want to take us through the post excerpts that were so incredible, but is this true? He came back to tell the kids, you sit them down, I love you, but you made him a sandwich. Yes.

[Bell Burden]

The sandwich has caused a lot of reaction. A lot of people have very strong feelings about it.

[Emisha Gormley]

And he tells the kids, and then he turns to her, he says to you while eating the sandwich that you made him. That you made him. Where is our prenup?

[Bell Burden]

Yes. So we had just told the kids we'd been apart for a month. He had wouldn't answer my phone calls. I'm begging for some explanation. This month goes by, he said he doesn't want any custody. It's like the greatest, strangest thing.

[Emisha Gormley]

Will you walk us through that part, too, after?

[Bell Burden]

Sure. Yes. But I'll tell you about the sandwich, because it definitely has become a lightning rod. We've told our children, which is one of the hardest things you can tell children. They'll remember it for their whole lives. It was very upsetting. And my younger daughter starts sobbing, runs down the stairs. My older daughter just sits there with her arms crossed. And then husband looks at me and says, I'm starving. Can you make me a sandwich? And I had one of those mother moments, which is, what do I do here? My daughter is looking at me. And I know that in divorce, I'm a kid of divorce, that you want to model cooperation, caring for each other. Everything's going to be okay. We're going to work together. So that part of my brain was like, making the sandwich. You should make the sandwich. The other part of my brain was used to live here. You know how to make a sandwich, make your own sandwich. But I made the sandwich.

[Emisha Gormley]

You made the sandwich. And I love when you. If you guys read this book, it's so good. It's called Strangers. It's so good. How she describes making the sandwich. I love that you were like, this is the last sandwich I'm ever going to make you, and it's going to be amazing.

[Bell Burden]

Exactly. I was like, there is no way I'm making a bad sandwich. I wanted him to leave.

[Emisha Gormley]

I would put poison in it.

[Bell Burden]

People have suggested that. But I wanted him to leave and say, how could I leave this? Who made such good Sandwiches. But also having that represent the woman who had created this home, who created family, that he would feel that regret. And I don't think he felt that way at all. I don't think it registered in any way. I gave it to him. I was looking for him to give it to him. And I found him, not with the girls, but in the basement, tearing through boxes, trying to find our prenup. It is missing.

[Emisha Gormley]

I mean, don't you think she wouldn't have gone through the boxes before?

[Bell Burden]

Yeah, in fact, I did.

[Emisha Gormley]

That's another story.

[Bell Burden]

I re taped them. Yes, that's another story.

[Molly Sims]

Yeah.

[Emisha Gormley]

What happened next?

[Bell Burden]

What happened next is he then went back to New York, was still completely unreachable, just very cold. I think sometimes in divorce, it shifts so quickly. He had left his family, but I was just so devastated and so upset. And he was just completely calm, like, this is what we're doing. We're getting a divorce. He filed for divorce a few months later. And that started a whole other difficult period, was getting through the divorce. But in the meantime, I had to literally try and pick myself up off the bathroom floor. And it's literal, because I think, as mothers, often that's the safest place you can be. Cause kids accept a locked door. And there's something about that cold tile that makes you feel many times, you're not gonna fall through the earth. And I pretended, on a therapist's advice for a month, not to tell the kids. This is before he came back. And I did a very bad job of seeming like I was together. I just could not stop crying. I had trouble getting out of bed. It was just a very dark time. Really, really hard. And I was just heartbroken. Cause I was still in love with this man. So we were still on the Vineyard. They were doing zoom school. So it was really just a process of trying to get up. And I eventually started walking. And that became something that was incredibly helpful to me. I went from walking a quarter mile to walking eight miles a day.

[Molly Sims]

Oh, my God.

[Bell Burden]

And there's very therapeutic and meditative about that, like, movement. And it also was Covid. And there were not many people on this island. So I would walk and just weep as I'm, you know, just logging on.

[Emisha Gormley]

Not only has your husband left you, you have three kids, you're alone. It's in a moment of a pandemic where the unknown is just as scary as the known.

[Molly Sims]

It was isolating being with your family. It was. It was really. It just was already hard enough.

[Bell Burden]

Right. And it was like the Twilight Zone for all of us, right? Like, we're like, what reality are we living in? And then this happened and I was like, it was a double Twilight Zone. Like, what is my life and what are the things that I can depend on and trust? And the other part of that was I'm very close to my family of origin and have some close friends and no one could get to me. You know, often when you're going through something like this, people gather around and they come in and they're cheerful and it kind of helps disrupt it. There was none of that. I couldn't get to them and they couldn't get to me. So it was like that isolation and alienation that women feel in these circumstances just felt more so because I was just like really separated. The plus side of that is I didn't have to go to school pickup. There were no meetings. I didn't have to pull myself together at any point except to go to the grocery store, really, and for the kids. So there was something protected about that. I could just kind of really just go through the pain of this without having to, like, kind of, I don't know, perform for other people.

[Molly Sims]

How did your kids handle it?

[Bell Burden]

They're two very different people. My son was staying with friends on Long Island. He was going for two weeks and then it was a house of like 10 boys. And he was very happy there. And I was happy that he didn't have to be with sad me. But my older daughter was 15 and she just went into total caretaking mode. And it was. It breaks my heart now to think she said, I'm really interested in cooking. I want to cook. And I think she was actually trying to feed me because I was losing weight rapidly and she was just trying to take care of me and take care of her sister. And then her younger sister was 12 and just wanted to be normal and just play Fortnite and talk to her friends. But it's been hard for them. And the hardest part for her, the youngest one, my middle one was in boarding school, but the younger one really wanted a bedroom at her dad's apartment.

[Emisha Gormley]

This is what I want to get into.

[Bell Burden]

Yep. Like her friends have. And she was sending him links on Pottery Barn for her room. And he just really held firm about. He was done with that stage of his life where you would parent a child in that way with homework and dinners and all that kind of stuff.

[Emisha Gormley]

So he rented. They have three children. He rented a two bedroom so the kids could not come and stay with him.

[Bell Burden]

And he made the second bedroom into a home office. Yeah. So that. That's been the hardest part of this and the most lasting.

[Emisha Gormley]

I guess that's where maybe this is. Look, I understand divorce. Two people, two of my friends are getting a divorce.

[Bell Burden]

Yes, I do too.

[Emisha Gormley]

I get it. They're very different people. They're both great people. It happens. I think what I found so unacceptable, like the disassociative of, like, okay, it's one thing to cut you off, but to completely from one day to the next. Because this is what it seemed like in the way that you wrote it, that he just cut you and your children off.

[Bell Burden]

And I should be clear that it's not a circumstance where he, you know, moved across the country and had a whole new family. He lives blocks away from us. He keeps in touch with the kids. He's very kind and sweet with them. But he was very clear that he was not going to do the day to day apply to college, like all that kind of thing. And that really was like a switch going off. He was so. And what is that? I don't know. And that's, I think, part of what may be frustrating about the book for people. I'm like a detective for the first half of the book trying to figure this out. Trying to figure out, like, is he in love with the other woman? Is he gonna marry her? Is it because of money? Is it because he really. Is it the simple thing that he just didn't love me anymore, wasn't attracted to me anymore, and nothing felt like the right answer. And eventually I just had to make peace with not having an answer.

[Emisha Gormley]

Has he ever spoken to you about it?

[Bell Burden]

The only things he's ever said were right at the beginning. He said, I felt like a switch went off. I feel like a switch has gone off. And then about a year into it, I called him late at night and he answered. And I said, oh, no, it was by. I said, can you just tell me why? After 21 years, it's just horrible not to know why. And he said, I wish I had an answer for you. It's not your fault. Something broken me. And that's the most I've gotten. And that's where my head has to rest. And the way I envision it is both the switch but also like, he was playing this role of husband and father and he wanted to play it. And he was all in. And then like an actor on a stage, he just was like, I'm done with this role. Takes off the costume, leaves the stage and can't do it gracefully, you know, he just did.

[Emisha Gormley]

It's stage right.

[Bell Burden]

Yeah.

[Emisha Gormley]

How do your kids cope with the fact that they don't really have. They have a friend, but they don't really have a father.

[Bell Burden]

Right. I think someone said to me recently, it's more like an uncle, like a friendly uncle. They are amazing because they love him and they're protective of him and they actually are very good now at reaching out to him to do things that are comfortable for him, like going to a hockey game or something like that. So they're actually wonderful and they're wonderful in navigating it. And this for me is a period of my life, but it's their whole life. This is their dad. But for me as a mother, I think the biggest challenge for me is to acknowledge their reality, to say, this is what's happening, this is unusual, that you do not live with your dad and do that in a way that, like, he didn't have pots and pans. So I would say to my 12 year old, your dad, I don't know why, but he can't create a home for you right now. And that has to do with him and that's not you. And so to acknowledge rather than saying, this is great, everything's fine, like, everything's normal, which wouldn't have felt honest to them. But at the same time, I'm a kid of divorce. I'm a kid of two divorces because my mom divorced a second time. And I hated it when my parents were mean about each other, even like just one word. So I am really careful. It is that cardinal rule to not be mean about him or not, you know, bitch about him.

[Emisha Gormley]

You were very honest in the book, but you weren't. I mean, look, it happened. So those are facts that happen. But you didn't. You've never really spoken about him. Bad.

[Bell Burden]

Right. And it's sort of hard to explain that while having produced a book. But even in the writing of the book, like, there's this delicate equilibrium where you have, like, if you put in like one too many complaints or it starts to feel like a vindictive thing. And I really didn't want that because I wanted to have this be something that touched people and reached people. And I think sometimes with divorce memoirs, it can just tip too much into that kind of angry thing, even though you have good reasons to get angry.

[Molly Sims]

What was his reaction the first time he heard that you were writing a book? And this was going to be very public.

[Bell Burden]

So the first thing that happened was I submitted this piece, To Modern Love, which is a column in the New York Times, which is very popular. I'd loved it forever. And one of the unexpected parts of this is that I've started writing again. And I wanted to be a writer when I was a teenager. And I got. Someone told me I couldn't write. And I stopped writing for 30 years. So something about having everything fall away and, like, just being at rock bottom emotionally, I was able to write again. And I really wanted to write down what happened because there were a lot of different narratives floating around. So I wrote this short piece. It has a limited word count, submitted it to the slush pile, and they picked it. Nine months later, they picked it to be published. And we went through the editing. And then the editor said, you need to show it to your ex to get his reaction. And I was so upset because I thought, that's not a fact check call. That's like asking his permission. And maybe it's because he was a man with money. He used to be a lawyer. But they had me do it. And I thought he would say, there's no way you can do this. Absolutely not. But he approved that piece, which still surprises me. He just said, it's good, hard to read. I approve and it was published. And I think he did wanna help me. Cause it was very important to me to do it. But I think at that point he also didn't really see anything wrong with the narrative. Like, you're a man, you're allowed to leave in this way. And I think he was surprised afterwards that he.

[Emisha Gormley]

The whole world, every woman in America hates you. Yes.

[Bell Burden]

He said he's like, I don't think I come off well in this. So he's never spoken to me directly about his feelings about the book. But I have heard through other channels that he really didn't want me to do it and is not so happy about it for clear reasons. It's a hard thing to deal with.

[Emisha Gormley]

Too bad.

[Molly Sims]

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[Emisha Gormley]

Every spring, there's a moment where your whole personality comes back. You want color, you want texture, you want to get dressed up and actually feel something. And I could not be more ready to reset my wardrobe for spring, which is exactly why I keep ending up at Macy's. They have everything I'm looking for right now. I've been eyeing the sheer layering pieces from BCBG Lace soft layers, the kind of thing you throw on for a spring event and look amazing without trying too hard. And I'm definitely grabbing some new denim while I'm at it. Barrel leg. Trust me, ladies, barrel leg and wide leg are the shapes of the season. And one fresh pair genuinely changes how everything else in your closet works. I'm ready to make the switch, and Macy's is where I'm doing it. Head in store or online, go find your spring refresh. Okay, you guys, I have to talk about something because it has genuinely changed my morning routine. And I don't say that lightly. I've been a makeup person my whole life. But I'll be honest, there's a point at which it's just, I don't know, it's just a little bit too much. Too many steps, too many products, too much time standing in front of the mirror when I should be getting out the door. That's when I completely became obsessed with Jones Road beauty, specifically the miracle balm. This little tube has replaced, like four steps in my routine. I use it as a highlighter, a bronzer, a little flush of color. I just put it on my fingers and I'm done. Done in under a minute. And it looks like my skin, but genuinely better. What I love, it's not masking anything. It's actually enhancing your skin. The ingredients are clean and skin loving, so it's nourishing while you're wearing it. Yet no phylates, no sulfates, no clogged pores. Just that effortless, dewy kind of like I woke up, like the glow that I've been chasing my entire life. And they just launched the eyeshadow stick. Oh, my God, you guys, it's so good. It's creamy as high pigment. You literally swipe and blend with your fingers. No brushes, no fallout. Eight gorgeous neutral shades that work literally on everyone and pair perfectly with the miracle balm. It's the easiest eye look I've ever done, and I'm obsessed. They also have just enough tinted moisturizer. Lightweight, non comedogenic, evens everything out with zero heaviness is literally the definition of your skin. But better. Jones Road was founded by Bobby Brown, the person, not the brand. And everything she's built here is about real skin, real women, real life. And it shows in every single product. And I have to say, I absolutely love her. For a limited time, our listeners get a free Shimmer face oil with their first purchase. Head to JonesRoadBeauty.com and use code lipstick at your checkout. And after your order, please tell them lipstick on the room sent you. It means the world to us. That's Jones Road beauty dot com. Insert code Lipstick Free Shimmer face oil with your first purchase. Let's take us back. You are in your 20s. You're five days before you get married, you are signing that prenup. Let's go back to the young version of Bell, what to do and what not to do. If you could take yourself back and you were giving advice, which is why we desperately wanted to have you on this podcast, what would you suggest the young Bell would have done? Because I know you've talked about. You kind of stopped knowing what happened financially.

[Bell Burden]

I think a lot of women do, yes. I think it's very common. And I met my husband when I was 28, and my father had died two years before. So I think. And I loved my father very much, and I think I was looking for safe harbor. And I fell madly in love with my husband. But I also was. He said to me, I'm going to take care of you now. And he actually said, nothing bad will ever come of this. And I just. I think there was something very romantic about handing my financial life over to him. But first, the prenup. So my family said, you have to have a prenup. I had some family money.

[Emisha Gormley]

Can we talk a little bit? Just so our listeners know, you come from a very prolific family.

[Bell Burden]

I have a family that has inherited wealth, shall we say, on both sides. It wasn't ton of Money. But I had two trusts that I had inherited from both sides of the family. And so I was advised to sign a prenup. A normal prenup says that anything you come into the marriage with remains yours, especially if it's in trust. Anything earned during the marriage is shared. 50, 50, 50, 50. So my then fiance, we saved. He sat on it for a while until it was two weeks before our wedding. And then he said, I think we should make a change to it. That nothing will be split unless it is put in joint name. And my lawyer, very prominent lawyer, said, you should not do this. You're planning to be home with kids. He's going into finance from the law firm. That would be crazy. And I looked at him and I thought, this is the man I love. This is going to be the father of my children. This is my parents. Nothing bad is going to happen. Nothing bad is going to happen. And so I said, no, I really want to make the change. And the lawyer made the change and we signed it five days before our wedding. And I think the whole 20 years I knew it was there. And he had promised actually to get rid of the prenup. And I kept delaying, delaying. So what happened was I used one trust to buy our apartment in New York and I used the other trust to buy our house in Martha's Vineyard. And I put them both in joint name because I believe that's what you do during marriage. It's what my parents did, it's what my brother did.

[Emisha Gormley]

Cause she was sharing two homes from two different size that she gave him.

[Bell Burden]

I gave him joint ownership. Meanwhile, he worked on finance. He's earning a ton of money. We shared in expenses equally. He's earning a ton of money that's in his name alone. But I never think we're going to get divorced, right? So I think this is part of my advice to women. Really get good advice on a prenup

[Molly Sims]

and listen to it.

[Bell Burden]

And listen to it, listen to the advice. That's the key part. I think what happened for me is that I trusted him so much. And he was in finance. I was still doing work in the law, but I was really with kids. And I just started, I paid our bills, but I just really let him run with it. And I started to convince myself that I couldn't really understand it. And I'm a former corporate lawyer. I don't think it's hard to understand, but you start to believe in someone's competence much more than your own. So I signed our tax returns, but I didn't read our tax returns. I paid our bills, but I didn't know where our assets really sat or whose name they were in. And I think there's something very comfortable about living that way and just being,

[Emisha Gormley]

like, really la di da Oblivious. Yes.

[Bell Burden]

And that really, really came back to haunt me, Both the prenup and the really not knowing what our assets were. So I really tell my friends, I tell young women in their twenties, there's the prenup piece, but there's also just really pay attention. Know where everything is. Have quarterly or monthly meetings with your partner to really look at everything, where it all is. Is it fairly laid out? And then no matter how happily married you are, talk about what would happen if it ends and if it's not with your partner, talk about it with a friend, talk about it with a lawyer. Just so you know, like, how would this play out if we were to split up?

[Emisha Gormley]

So what of a plan? Because I think for you, it was just ripped out in front of you, like the message. So what happened? So what happened?

[Bell Burden]

So what happened was he filed for divorce and filed to have the prenup enforced. Exactly. And that meant that he could claim his half of both the house and the apartment, and I could not afford to buy him out, so I would have had to sell both. And I am very fortunate. I would have been okay if I had to sell both. But I am trying to protect my kids through this. And the idea of losing our home, which is kind of how you should have made.

[Emisha Gormley]

You sold it.

[Bell Burden]

I don't know. I sort of think he. It was. It was a way to bring me absolutely to my knees in the divorce where I wouldn't make any claim on his money, and I had no right to any of his money.

[Emisha Gormley]

Well, that was the thing. So she has no income coming in for her family, and she has to give up half of both homes. And if you don't pay off the other, they're gonna make you sell.

[Bell Burden]

Yes, exactly. And then he had amassed a fortune, but it was in his name alone.

[Emisha Gormley]

And he gave you none of that.

[Bell Burden]

I know he gave me none of that. He gives me child support, but I have nothing from that after 20 years. He gave me after 20. And in our marriage, the marriage really became about his work because it was so all consuming. It was. So he worked weekends. He worked, like, just. He was very intense, and so everything was, like, pushed towards that. So he would miss, you know, parent teacher conferences or, you know, going to the birthday party on the weekend. And we really just emphasize that. And I think when you do that in a marriage, you. I always had meaningful work, but I really kind of lost sight of myself and my own talents and my own passions. So. Yes. So I really feel like I supported him in that effort to build that wealth, and then I had to say goodbye to that wealth.

[Emisha Gormley]

I would be in prison.

[Molly Sims]

I might be in prison.

[Emisha Gormley]

For you reading this book, I mean, I'm not telling you. I'm like. Like, I think for me, just the. We're done.

[Bell Burden]

Yeah.

[Emisha Gormley]

Just like, you didn't mean anything to me, and I know you did. I know you did.

[Molly Sims]

I.

[Emisha Gormley]

There's no way for 20 years you're with someone that you do not mean something. But, like, that disassociative personality. That disassociative.

[Molly Sims]

Like, it's like a sociopath.

[Emisha Gormley]

It's very.

[Bell Burden]

Like, it's very hard.

[Emisha Gormley]

It's hard to understand.

[Bell Burden]

I really wish. And I'm very close to my stepmother. She's a family therapist, and she. She begged him to come back to talk to me on the phone, to give. Cause it's very hard to move on when someone just doesn't have any. Doesn't give you any time to catch up, to talk about it, to kind of. I understand what's happening to you. And it was just this very cold cutoff.

[Emisha Gormley]

Absolute cutoff. So did he go back to the woman? I knew at one point she was threatening something with her own life.

[Molly Sims]

Correct.

[Bell Burden]

Just that night. That night when I got the phone call, I had contacted the husband of this woman to say. I texted him back and I said, how long has this affair been going on? And he said, I can't talk because my wife has tried to kill herself. She had taken sleeping pills. And once I knew, I panicked because I was worried for this stranger. But once I knew she was okay, I was kind of like, wait, she took sleeping pills? I'm the wife of 21 years who's just finding out about this. And it was like it stole his attention that night. But from what I know, I really don't know. I heard that it only lasted a few months. I heard a couple years later that she had not divorced her husband. I have not seen or heard of her.

[Emisha Gormley]

Did you have any other conversations with her husband?

[Bell Burden]

No, that was it. So a friend of mine who's an older lawyer said, don't contact her. Don't contact him. It will only lead to more misery, and it could make you look bad in front of a judge down the line if you have sort of, like, this questions. What Are you talking about how can

[Emisha Gormley]

it make you look bad?

[Bell Burden]

Like, it's true. It's true. But it felt like in this very emotionally chaotic time, it felt like a very clear path for me to walk down. Okay. I'm not going to obsess about this woman and her husband. Although mentally, of course.

[Molly Sims]

Did you. Did you spend time after. Because I think I know for myself. Like, in any situation, I try to figure out what did I do wrong.

[Bell Burden]

Yes. When your husband rejects you, you really go down that path. And you really. Although I resisted it because I just didn't want it to be about me. I really wanted it to be something where I was just this innocent victim. But eventually I did sort of. And I make a list in the book of all the things he could have grown to dislike about me. You know, I can be very tense about plans and about the kids. And anyway, it's a long list. We all have less

[Emisha Gormley]

myself. Naggedy Nan.

[Molly Sims]

Right?

[Bell Burden]

Exactly. Yes.

[Emisha Gormley]

Very early years of my marriage, nagity comes out.

[Bell Burden]

Yes, it does. It does all that kind of thing.

[Molly Sims]

I haven't seen Naggety in a while. I know she's really just retreated into her shell.

[Emisha Gormley]

She's retreated into her shell.

[Molly Sims]

She's.

[Emisha Gormley]

She's busy with other things. But yes, when you're having children and you're un. You're overwhelmed and you're being pulled in

[Bell Burden]

all those directions, you get to be stressed out. You kind of get to be a

[Emisha Gormley]

little bit stressed out. Yes, Nagity does come up.

[Molly Sims]

How do you separate that, like hindsight from self criticism?

[Bell Burden]

It's hard, but I think for me, the hindsight really became not about flaws in myself, but I started to really look at decisions I had made over the course of the marriage, which is different than it's your fault. So it was like, okay, I made that decision about the prenup. I made the decision to fully support his work and not follow some of my passions. I made the decision not to get rid of the prenup. You know, I could look at all of these decisions that kind of put me in the place where I had ended up in 2020. And in doing that, I really tried not to say, you failed. You did something wrong, but to say you did it for all the right reasons. Right. You did it for love. You did it. Your family was your. Because you trusted you did it for your family and feel proud of that. But also learn from those decisions and really focus, then kind of really shift from the hindsight to looking forward. And what do I want this life to look like in this next phase. Right this, this is now. I am now divorced. What is, what's this next part of my life going to look like?

[Molly Sims]

These days I'm really trying to be more intentional about what I bring into my closet. It I don't want any trendy pieces that fall apart after one season. I want things that feel elevated, fit beautifully and honestly actually last. That's why I love Quince. Quince makes high quality wardrobe staples using premium fabrics like 100% European linen, 100% silk and organic cotton poplin. Their lightweight cotton cashmere sweaters are perfect for this. In between weather, light enough to layer but still seal looks and their seasonal spring colors and prints so good. It's that effortless pull together vibe without ever overthinking it. What I really appreciate is that Quince works directly with safe ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen. You're not paying for crazy brand markups or fancy storefronts, just quality clothing at a price that actually makes sense. The 100% European linen feels substantial but still breathable. The cotton poplin is crisp and holds its shape. The gauze is soft without feeling flimsy. The stitching, the fit, the fabrics, everything feels built to last season after season. These are the pieces you reach for on repeat. The Quince cotton cashmere sweater has become my go to. It's light enough for layering but still feels luxe. And it didn't cost what I thought quality cashmere would. Right now go to quince.comlipstick for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear and love it. And you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep selling. For clothes that don't last go to q u I-n c-e.com lipstick for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com lipstick before you know it, the holidays are going to sneak up on us. They always do. So now is the perfect time to get ahead on your gifting. And I have to say Jenny Bird has made holiday shopping embarrassingly easy this year. We've been wearing and loving their pieces non stop. And as we head into gifting season, they've officially become my go to for those that I want something thoughtful but still cool. Presents for if you're stuck on what to get your sister, your best friend, your mother in law, or honestly, yourself, Jenny Bird is it. Their jewelry hits that sweet spot of elevated but effortless pieces you can wear every day but that still make you feel put together and in a know and it helps that literally every single time I wear mine someone asks where it's from. They make gifting super easy. Everything ships fast, which is a true blessing if you're a last minute holiday shop were like me. The packaging is so chic and feels special right out of the box. No extra wrapping needed and there's genuinely something for everyone. Bracelets, earrings, those gorgeous monogram necklaces is it's one of those brands where you know the gift is going to land because the pieces are comfortable, wearable and make you feel instantly polished. Truly, if you want to give a gift that gets compliments, this is the one. You can get 20% off your first order with Jenny Bird by visiting jenny-bird.com and using code Lipstick at checkout. When we started this podcast and honestly when I have started any business, it felt like I suddenly had to wear every single hat. Creative Director, Tech Support Marketing Team Customer Service Accounting I could keep going. All of it. Scripts, logos, schedules, product pages. Every day there was a new decision waiting for me. It can feel really lonely in the beginning. Your to do list grows faster than you can check things off and you're constantly thinking am I even doing this right? That's why having the right platform actually matters for millions of businesses. That built in business partner is Shopify. Shopify is the e commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names to brands just getting started. It's designed to make entrepreneurship feel less overwhelming and a lot more manageable. You can build a beautiful online store with hundreds of ready to use templates that actually match your brand style. And it's packed with AI tools that help write product descriptions, page headlines and even enhance your product photography which saves so much time when you're doing everything yourself. Plus you can tackle everything in one place. Inventory, payments, analytics, returns. No juggling five different websites or platforms. Start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify and start hearing. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.comlipstick. go to shopify.comlipstick that's shopify.comlipstick.

[Emisha Gormley]

you talk about a toolkit.

[Bell Burden]

Yep.

[Emisha Gormley]

Talk about that.

[Bell Burden]

This is definitely not an advice book at all. This is really meant to be a memoir. Memoir.

[Emisha Gormley]

When you can learn from my story. Your story?

[Bell Burden]

Yes. And because I love writing and the art of it, my hope is that it's like an enjoyable read and all of that. But if I had to, I don't know if I Would say toolkit. I would say that to women who might be going through this, there is a path to the other side. And sometimes when you go through something like this, when where everything gets broken apart, you actually might be able to access parts of yourself that you may have lost a long time ago or have not discovered yet. And in terms of specifics, I was talking to somebody last night who was going through it right now. And it's very hard to see any way out when that's happening. But for me, the walking, as we mentioned, really, really helped. I was working on my immigration cases. That really helped to just kind of like ground myself in words and tasks and like concrete work. Friendships, I think, become so important during a time like this where you, you know, some friendships fall away because they just are like, do not want to move towards pain, but there are people who really move towards pain in this very profound and wonderful way. And my friendships became much closer. The friendships that remained became so much closer. That was key. And then for me, there was writing that became a critical component of processing. And I kind of resist the word catharsis. Cause I think they use it about women and not men like that. You're just so angry. You have to get this out on the page. But it helped me kind of figure things out. And whether you write a memoir or not, I think writing is a very important tool.

[Molly Sims]

Do you think that to a degree, he gave you a gift by walking away because otherwise you might have stayed?

[Bell Burden]

I think 100%.

[Emisha Gormley]

I think 100%. Would you ever have changed that prenup?

[Bell Burden]

I would change. If I could go back, I would change the prenup. But I never would have left my marriage.

[Molly Sims]

You never would have. And I think a lot of women would do that.

[Bell Burden]

Because you want to stay for your family. That's the most important thing to me. An intact family was like my dream. That's really what I wanted in life. And I never would have chosen to be divorced, but I never would be in this place. And I'm in a much. I feel like I'm a much closer to who I am. I'm much more self actualized. I love being in charge of my money, my life, my decisions. I'm super close with my kids. I went back to my maiden name. There's like. It took a while because I didn't want to be a divorced person. But there's a lot of good things in it that I think are huge.

[Emisha Gormley]

Found you again?

[Bell Burden]

Yes, I really did. And it might sound like kind of

[Emisha Gormley]

I've Watched your interviews. I've, you know, I feel like I'm part of your book. But I just love. Even when you first started your press tour, from till now, you're much more. You're like, okay, I'm Bill Burden.

[Bell Burden]

Thank you.

[Emisha Gormley]

I got this.

[Bell Burden]

Thank you. This is like, I'm so shy that the press part has been really hard, but thank you. I'm glad that you see some progression in that.

[Emisha Gormley]

I think women can, you know, look at your situation and listen. No one will ever walk through exactly how you've walked your path. But I do think so many women, they've been cheated on. They're like, I'm done. He's having another family. He's moved on. Some are really good dads.

[Molly Sims]

Yes.

[Bell Burden]

Yes. Many are.

[Emisha Gormley]

Which many are? I look at some of my friends where they need to divorce, but they just can't.

[Bell Burden]

Yes. Yes.

[Emisha Gormley]

They're in a very neutral. They're not going back. They're not going forward. It's honestly, purgatory. It's stuck. And I think this book can give women, like, there's life on the other side.

[Bell Burden]

There really is. There's really life on the other side. And sometimes it's just like a mental switch. I initially saw myself as sort of this sad, pathetic middle age. I was 50. I'm now 56. Person who had been rejected by their husband. Kind of like a dowdy, you know, woman. And I had to kind of, like, shift to, like, no, I'm like. I'm this, like, divorced, but, like, fully in charge.

[Emisha Gormley]

I looked up your husband. I'm like, he's not all that, but whatever.

[Molly Sims]

Thank you. But, you know, can I just say something, too? I think that there's a way that, you know, when the excerpt first started rolling out. Right. I mean, I think everyone, including myself, was captivated. But you managed to do something that I think. I don't know any other woman that would do it. I know I'd be a vindictive bitch. Like, I would not speak.

[Emisha Gormley]

Like, I said I would be up for murder.

[Molly Sims]

You really. You somehow managed to tell this story and not sound like you hate him.

[Bell Burden]

Yeah.

[Molly Sims]

Cause I hate him. And I think 99.9% of America hates him.

[Bell Burden]

Well, I think there's. Those strong feelings are definitely in there.

[Emisha Gormley]

They're definitely in there.

[Bell Burden]

But I.

[Emisha Gormley]

No one's setting him up, right.

[Molly Sims]

No.

[Emisha Gormley]

Well, I bet there are people who

[Bell Burden]

are setting him up, but I have had friends who I've seen just really live in their divorce, even years afterwards, and just be just so Consumed by it and colored by it. So colored by it. And they can't even talk about anything else. It's still what they got or didn't get and all of that. And I know it doesn't really make sense. Cause I wrote a book. But when I said to myself, when I sign my divorce agreement, I am not going to live in that place anymore. Of feeling really victimized and hurt. And it was just so unfair. Because it was unfair. But I really just did not want to live in that angry place anymore. And so even though I've written a book, I do feel like I don't live in it at this point.

[Molly Sims]

Did he call you after the book came out?

[Bell Burden]

He did not.

[Emisha Gormley]

He's never called you after the book?

[Bell Burden]

No. I know that he. We have corresponded about, like, a flood insurance bill, but we have not corresponded about the book. I know he's read it and I know he's not happy about it, but that's all I know.

[Molly Sims]

Too bad.

[Bell Burden]

Yeah.

[Molly Sims]

And how did your kids feel about the book?

[Bell Burden]

Like, you know, it's been such a process. Cause there was first Modern Love, and then there was signing the book contract. And then there was the writing of the book. And it's all been, like, in stages. And instead of giving them the draft and say, read this and tell me what you think, I just put it in a binder on my desk and said, come and read it whenever you want to. And I've heard this from other authors, memoir and not memoir, that kids don't really read their parents books. And I think for some actors, the kids don't watch the movies. It's like, it's too much to have to react or to see your parent in a different role. So they've read part of. They take it in when they want to. And it's even like a hard topic for me to talk about because they're so supportive and loving with me. But they're also really supportive of their dad and protective of their dad.

[Emisha Gormley]

So he will always be their dad?

[Bell Burden]

Yeah, he'll always be their dad. When I wrote the book, every page, I thought of my kids reading it. So I was conscious of writing something that they've lived everything in the book, but that they would be able to take in. But I'm also. Every day, even today, I say to myself, this is complicated for them a lot. It's a lot for kids to deal with. They're older now.

[Emisha Gormley]

So like a. You're very descriptive. Your writing is beautiful.

[Bell Burden]

It's captivating.

[Emisha Gormley]

It's Colorful, but it just your emotion of going through what you went through, I think was so raw. And I think that's what women go through.

[Molly Sims]

Right?

[Emisha Gormley]

Maybe not in every single way, but

[Bell Burden]

for a variety of things. There's so many hard life things, and I think that. That people actually don't talk about pain enough. And I think we kind of like, we're programmed to just kind of pull it all together, and that serves a purpose too. But sometimes I think we need to talk about the pain of things.

[Emisha Gormley]

Are you dating?

[Bell Burden]

If someone says to me, I know someone great, and I love the scaffold.

[Emisha Gormley]

I mean, you're glowing. And 50, 56.

[Bell Burden]

Thank you. You feel a lot of love.

[Emisha Gormley]

Your energy is incredible, and I think you feel that in the book.

[Molly Sims]

Your presence is very calming. Oh, good.

[Bell Burden]

Thank you so much. I feel that way about you guys too.

[Emisha Gormley]

So I have a little bit of insight in Hollywood, because we're in Hollywood and I might be married to a producer. Every studio. Nicole Kidman, Shane Gardner, Julia Roberts is bidding for Strangers a memoir of a Marriage to be in theaters.

[Bell Burden]

It's pretty interesting. Well, I don't know if they're bidding yet, but it's kind of blowing my mind that any of the names you just listed would be interested, and it just is. I can't believe it. I thought this was gonna be a pretty quiet book, and now it's like, oh, my God. Oh, it's loud in the world.

[Emisha Gormley]

It's gonna be loud. My husband, he's gonna have to move.

[Molly Sims]

Your ex is going to have to move to, like, a different continent from what I understand.

[Bell Burden]

He's actually okay. He still works at the hedge fund. He's actually doing it, surprisingly, but yes.

[Molly Sims]

Cool.

[Emisha Gormley]

Can't wait to poison him. Karma, It's a bitch. My husband had the opportunity to meet you last week, a few weeks ago, and he just was so impressed. And so you're very grounded to have gone through this, you know, roller coaster, rollercoaster of the last six years. And, like, I had read it. I'm like, I read it before you read it.

[Molly Sims]

But whatever.

[Emisha Gormley]

He just thought you were incredible. Oh, that's going to be a major event. I mean, I know it's your story, but it's.

[Bell Burden]

And it's. I really love that men are reading it, and I love that your husband read it and that he react. He spoke so beautifully about it and that. That means a lot to me. I don't know why I would come home.

[Emisha Gormley]

I'm like, I can't believe the sandwich got me the sandwich was like, she

[Bell Burden]

made that muslin sandwich.

[Molly Sims]

You would be like, throwing bread at Stieber's head.

[Emisha Gormley]

I would.

[Bell Burden]

Which I respect too. I really.

[Molly Sims]

Slinging, like, slices of ham.

[Emisha Gormley]

Not in front of every single bread, but when they were out of sight. Yes, I would hit him. But listen, this book is captivating. It's thrilling. It also is.

[Molly Sims]

I think I'm going to say this. I think it's empowering. But even though, you know, some would be like, oh, my God, you were, you know, you were a victim in this. Right. But it's so empowering to see that you went through this and you said, you know what, I've got a story to tell.

[Bell Burden]

Yes.

[Molly Sims]

And I want other women to learn from my mistakes, because I think a lot of other women would have either figured out a way to stay retreated, Hid.

[Bell Burden]

Yes. And you talked about that you did

[Emisha Gormley]

the exact opposite with your kids.

[Molly Sims]

All of it.

[Bell Burden]

Yes, you did.

[Molly Sims]

And it's so empowering.

[Bell Burden]

And it's still so strange to me. It was from that first moment that's in the book where he said, we should tell people this is amicable. And the old me would have, you know, I was very deferential. I was, you know, believed in his wisdom. And I just felt this full bodied certainty that I would not lie about what was happening to me. And I was actually gonna be open about it. And that has really carried. And that is what got me writing about it, publishing.

[Emisha Gormley]

I mean, how in the world would he look at you and say, let's say this is amicable.

[Molly Sims]

Yeah.

[Emisha Gormley]

I mean, in that moment, did you not want to slap him?

[Bell Burden]

Well, it was on the phone.

[Molly Sims]

I'm not even in.

[Emisha Gormley]

Not even in through therapy sessions. And I'm heated.

[Bell Burden]

And he thought that would. I would look better.

[Molly Sims]

Right.

[Bell Burden]

That I. And there is, you know, an argument for that. Like, I wouldn't have to tell people he left me, he rejected me. I could say, you know, we've been fighting a lot.

[Molly Sims]

Like, for him to try to use that, like, psychology with you is that's mind games. That's like, let me like, reverse psychology this so that you feel better where

[Bell Burden]

it's actually protective of him. Right. Like, that storyline would have been much more protective of him. And I think as women, we are really programmed to make those choices that we think are the graceful, good choice to make to be good women. But they actually often serve to protect the man in the. That story.

[Emisha Gormley]

Okay, If a woman listening feels like her life has just been cracked open, what do you want her to know?

[Bell Burden]

I want her to know that she's going to get through it, she will get to the other side and that there actually might be some great discoveries about herself and that she will actually become closer to knowing who she is and what her talents are. Because this fell apart and it's really hard to see that in the moment. But I've seen it with other people, not just myself. And I would tell her just to hang in there and just to walk a lot. That's my other piece of advice.

[Molly Sims]

And have good friends.

[Bell Burden]

Good friends are key. I think that. Confide in them and just say that you need help. It's hard for us to do that sometimes. Don't always ask for it. Yep. And you will find just extraordinary kindness when you do that.

[Emisha Gormley]

We always ask every guest before they go, if you could give advice to your 10 year old self, what would it be?

[Bell Burden]

I think I would say don't let anyone tell you what your talents are. Or not always believe in yourself. And specifically I would tell her not to listen to the guy in college who tells you you can't write. That's what I would tell her. But also I would say love with abandon. You know, really love with abandonment. But make sure you're very aware of your financial life. Do those things.

[Emisha Gormley]

You're amazing. All good points, Strangers A Memoir of a Marriage Honestly. Follow Ellburden there's more to come for sure. I mean, you're incredible.

[Bell Burden]

Thank you both so much.

[Molly Sims]

Thank you for sharing your story.

[Emisha Gormley]

And thank you.

[Molly Sims]

It wasn't easy, I'm sure.

[Bell Burden]

No, it wasn't easy. It wasn't easy. It's still not easy to be attached to the story. But I'm out here and I'm doing it well.

[Molly Sims]

Congratulations.

[Bell Burden]

Thank you.

[Emisha Gormley]

We love you.

[Bell Burden]

Thank you.

[Emisha Gormley]

Next week Week. Thanks for listening to Lipstick on the Rim with Molly Sims and My Ride or Die. Emisha Gormley. We are so excited to bring you guys along on this journey with us. You can find us on Instagram and TikTok at Lipstick on the Rim and Molly B. Sims. Or you can go to my blog where you can dive just a little bit deeper into my favorite products, trends and [e-mail] don't forget to check out our video episodes on my YouTube channel. Molly Sims this podcast production with Sony Music. I wanted to give a special thanks to my team, Rosie Cummings, Ken Orion, Sophine Kevorkin and everyone at Sony Music. Don't forget to listen and follow wherever you get your podcast so you never miss out on the fun.

[Molly Sims]

I'm Craig Melvin. Cheers.

[Bell Burden]

Cheers.

[Emisha Gormley]

Cheers.

[Bell Burden]

I've always been a glass half full

[Emisha Gormley]

kind of guy, and now I'm talking

[Molly Sims]

to some people who look at the world that way, too. Some really fascinating folks who share their

[Emisha Gormley]

defining moments, their triumphs, their challenges.

[Molly Sims]

Their stories are funny and quite candid. So I hope you'll join me each week. And who knows, you might just come

[Bell Burden]

away with your own glass half full. Search Glass Half Full with Craig Melvin From Today on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.