The Courage to Change: Starting a New Chapter at Any Age

Summary

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Lipstick on the Rim: "The Courage to Change: Starting a New Chapter at Any Age"

Hosts: Molly Sims & Emese Gormley
Date: July 21, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode is a candid, heartfelt conversation about career evolution, reinvention, and the courage to start over at any age. Trading in their usual expert interviews for an intimate back-and-forth, hosts Molly Sims and Emese Gormley draw from their own winding professional journeys—from modeling and fashion PR to entrepreneurship, podcasting, and motherhood. They dig into the fears, the failures, the wins, and the wisdom gained, offering listeners both practical steps and emotional support for embracing big life changes, especially later in life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Emotional Side of Reinvention

[02:20-04:00]

• Molly and Emese explore the daunting and emotional aspects of starting a new chapter, especially as children leave the nest.
  • Quote (Emese, 03:03): “You want to change and do something different? Take a bet on yourself.”
• The reality of "analysis paralysis”—overthinking and fear of leaving security.

2. Molly’s Journey: From Modeling to Entrepreneurship

[04:37-12:42]

• Molly is interviewed by Emese about her many professional pivots: model, actress, TV host, author, beauty brand founder, and producer.
• The necessity of being proactive and anticipating change (“I knew that I would only be 20, 25, 30, and then things would change. Because you get older when you’re a model.” – Molly, 05:21)
• On using life lessons:
  • Quote (Molly, 06:41): “I say this a lot when I speak on panels. It’s like, you are the captain of the plane. Pull down your oxygen mask, get your seatbelt on, and get ready for the ride.”
• Emphasizing adaptability: leveraging setbacks and “no’s” as motivation to push forward.
  • Quote (Molly, 10:30): “Someone tells you no? For me, it makes me actually go the other way. Really? You don’t think I can do it?”

3. Emese’s Story: Fashion, PR, and Startup Life

[15:46-23:49]

• Emese’s immigrant upbringing framed her initial career pressures ("If you are a child of an immigrant, you know this: there was really no other option” – Emese, 16:08).
• Overcoming academic struggles and honesty about her “detour” through forging report cards, facing reality, and pivoting to PR via a Roots internship.
• Building a career with major brands (Club Monaco, Ralph Lauren, Diane von Furstenberg), then pivoting to consulting and eventually entrepreneurship with startups like Cerebelly.
• The challenge and guilt of juggling motherhood and career, including the poignant moment when her daughter called the nanny “Mama.”
  • Quote (Emese, 22:46): “I was sweating and trying to sell baby food. And then this nanny that I adore…she called my nanny mama.”

4. Taking a Bet on Yourself

[23:50-24:24]

• Both women stress the importance of betting on oneself, pushing through doubt, and being open to new opportunities:
  • Quote (Emese, 23:57): “Take a bet on yourself. And I took a bet on myself. I can genuinely say I’ve never been happier.”

5. Facing Fear & Financial Realities

[24:26-28:34]

• Molly gets candid about the anxiety of investing personal savings into her brand Wise, the shock of underestimated costs, and initial launch panic.
  • Quote (Molly, 27:31): “I have never in my life internally panicked as much as that moment.”

6. Leveraging Skills Across Chapters

[28:34-33:54]

• Emese discusses how experience in marketing to women across decades has given her deep insight as a creator and consultant.
• The importance of authenticity, community-building, and understanding your audience.
  • Quote (Emese, 31:06): “You have to be truthful…It’s very, very short-sighted to not think that people can see through your lack of authenticity.”

7. Practical Advice for Listeners “Stuck” in a Rut

[34:14-43:28]

• Start before you quit: explore new interests on the side, consult, take courses, test your ideas quietly.
  • Quote (Molly, 37:49): “Try out interests on nights, weekends, freelance, consult, take courses. Build your proof of concept. You don’t have to tell anybody…”
• Lean on your network—talk to people in your desired field, and pay it forward.
• Build a financial runway: be honest about money, save where possible, and be smart with spending.
  • Quote (Molly, 40:53): “Don’t spend money on stupid shit…buy one great bag.”
• Test whether you love the work or just the idea of it. Embrace “beginner” status as exciting, not embarrassing.
  • Quote (Molly, 42:28): “Embrace beginning status. Don’t view it as embarrassing. It’s exciting.”

8. Debunking Myths About Career Change

[42:36-44:44]

• “It’s too late”—myth! Many successful founders start over in their 40s and 50s.
  • Quote (Emese, 42:40): “There’s no expiration date for reinvention.”
• Starting over doesn’t mean you start from zero; you bring your past experience and resilience.
  • Quote (Molly, 43:54): “You’re bringing in all the armor, all the resilience, all the experience…”

9. The Most Fulfilling and Surprising Parts

[44:44-48:10]

• For Molly: working with inspiring teams, unleashing creativity, and proving the naysayers wrong.
  • Quote (Molly, 44:44): “I get to be really, truly creative, whether it’s from a script, working on a movie…”
• For Emese: finally living her editor dreams, building genuine community, and balancing career with family life.
  • Quote (Emese, 45:47): “I get to do that. I get to play in a world I always wanted to play in… I genuinely love the community I have.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [03:13] Molly Sims: “Take a bet on yourself.”
• [06:41] Molly Sims: “You are the captain of the plane. Pull down your oxygen mask, get your seatbelt on, and get ready for the ride.”
• [10:30] Molly Sims: “Someone tells you no? For me, it makes me actually go the other way.”
• [22:46] Emese Gormley: “And then this nanny that I adore…she called my nanny mama.”
• [23:57] Emese Gormley: “Take a bet on yourself… I can genuinely say I’ve never been happier.”
• [31:06] Emese Gormley: “You have to be truthful…It’s very, very short-sighted to not think that people can see through your lack of authenticity.”
• [42:40] Emese Gormley: “There’s no expiration date for reinvention.”
• [43:54] Molly Sims: “You’re bringing in all the armor, all the resilience, all the experience…”
• [49:06] Molly Sims: “I love these conversations… They’re so fun. And we get asked all the time. It’s never too late. Honestly, believe in yourself.”

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Practical Takeaways for Listeners

[38:04-43:28]

• Start small, test ideas before leaping.
• Network intentionally and pay help forward.
• Budget and set up financial security before “quitting.”
• Don’t glamorize the unknown—figure out if you love the real work.
• Embrace mistakes, ask for help, and learn as you go.

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Encouragement & Final Thoughts

[50:16-51:13]

• Surround yourself with supporters and trust your gut.
• Not every risk works out, and that’s okay—each experience adds to your toolkit.
• Set boundaries, know your strengths, and don’t be afraid to say yes to new challenges.
• Quote (Molly, 51:47): “If there’s one takeaway, take a bet on yourself.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Emotional First Steps: [02:20-04:00]
• Molly’s Reinvention Story: [04:37-12:42]
• Emese’s Fashion & PR Path: [15:46-23:49]
• Facing Financial & Emotional Fears: [24:26-28:34]
• On Community & Authenticity: [28:34-33:54]
• Practical Advice for Career Change: [34:14-43:28]
• Debunking Reinvention Myths: [42:36-44:44]
• Most Fulfilling Surprises: [44:44-48:10]
• Final Words & Encouragement: [49:06-51:47]

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The Bottom Line

Molly and Emese’s message distilled: It’s never too late to change, evolve, or start again. Whether you’re switching careers, launching a business, or simply want more from your life, have courage, bet on yourself, build your community, and never underestimate the power of accumulated experience and true grit.

“Take a bet on yourself.”

Transcript

[Molly Sims]

You know that feeling when you're at a really great party and it's not over yet? You can just sense that it's starting to wind down. That's mid July and the sun is out. The rose is still very much flowing. But there's this little voice in the back of your head that starts doing the math on how many weekends you actually have left. And the answer is, never as generous as you want it to be. Because here's the thing about August. It has a sneaky way of arriving and disappearing almost simultaneously. And you're sitting there wondering, how did you let the whole season slip by without doing half the things you said you were going to do?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Molly Sims]

So before that happens, think about the moments that are still ahead of you. The beach trip that's been living in the group chat. Let's do it, people. The long weekend getaway you keep saying you'll plan whatever those moments look like for you. Macy's has everything you need to actually show up for them. The swimsuit, the bag, the outfit, the hosting essentials, and of course, the beauty must haves all in one place. So the only thing left is to go do it. Head to Macy's.com and shop everything you need to savor the rest of your summer.

[Emisha Gormley]

He finally got her.

[Rachel Brown]

Oh, my God, he got her. For years, a deranged man in Wichita known as the Poet stalked Ruth Finley. He sent her letters, gifts, and poems. The Wichita police put everything they had into Ruth's case, but got nowhere.

[Emisha Gormley]

The Poet was always two steps in front of us, and we just didn't know why.

[Rachel Brown]

And the city was already living in fear under the watch of another monster who called himself btk. And he also had a thing for poetry.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Could we really have two different people?

[Rachel Brown]

But no one could have guessed how this would end.

[Emisha Gormley]

That's one of those Hitchcock endings that we did not expect from Sony Music

[Rachel Brown]

Entertainment and New Metric Media. This is the Poet. I'm Rachel Brown. The Poet is available now on the binge. Search for it wherever you get your podcast. To start listening today, subscribers to the binge can listen to all episodes all at once, ad free.

[Molly Sims]

Hey, I'm Molly Sims.

[Emisha Gormley]

And I'm Emisha Gormley.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

We're two girls obsessed with one thing.

[Molly Sims]

Beauty. And by that, we mean everything that makes you look and feel beautiful.

[Emisha Gormley]

We're calling on our favorite health experts, industry insiders and friends to answer all

[Molly Sims]

your beauty questions with a drink in hand.

[Emisha Gormley]

Definitely with a drink in hand.

[Molly Sims]

You're listening to Lipstick on the Rim with Molly Sims, Have you ever looked at your life and thought, is this really what I'm going to be doing for the rest of my life?

[Emisha Gormley]

I mean, I think. Or maybe you've spent your years building a career that looked like exactly what you thought you wanted on paper, but then deep down inside, you had this deep rooted desire to kind of do something different.

[Molly Sims]

Listen, changing careers can feel terrifying, especially later in life. And as two women who have had second careers, third careers, fourth careers, we wanted to use this episode to talk about what it means to reinvent yourself. Should we not use the word reinvent? Should we.

[Emisha Gormley]

Should we use it like review? Review.

[Molly Sims]

I love what Brooke Shield said.

[Emisha Gormley]

To review your life. You want to change and do something different? Take a bet on yourself.

[Molly Sims]

Take a bet on yourself. And so we thought we'd do a little bit of something different today and really talk about changing careers later in life. A lot of us are soon to be, if not already empty nesters, which is very daunting. Daunting. Terrifying. And I know a lot of my friends are starting to go through it, and the ones that have gone through it. You do get through it. That I will say. But it's. It's not easy.

[Emisha Gormley]

No, I mean, you have your life revolving around these little people, and then you put them out into the world and you want them to find their wings and fly, but then you still want them to come back to the nest.

[Molly Sims]

It's such a mind fuck. I can't even tell. I'm like, I'm not right.

[Emisha Gormley]

I could cry right now thinking about it.

[Molly Sims]

Me too.

[Emisha Gormley]

I'm not going to, but I'm always

[Molly Sims]

gonna live with them, so it's fine.

[Emisha Gormley]

But we're gonna talk about finding the moments that, you know, is the moment to maybe make a change.

[Molly Sims]

And if you wanna do something. I think we talk a lot about, you know, sometimes it's like analysis paralysis, right? Like you get. You, you. You spend so much time thinking about it that you. You never do it. You're either worried, you're afraid, you're scared.

[Emisha Gormley]

You talk yourself a very real thing, in this case, very real thing. Security is something that a lot of people view their careers as providing security. And change can potentially alter that security.

[Molly Sims]

We thought we'd interview each other and.

[Emisha Gormley]

And we're just gonna. I'm just gonna dive right in here because I think, you know, we spend a lot of time interviewing guests and sometimes we actually have a lot to say. So we're just going to interview each other. Obviously, this is the kind of the Obvious question to start with with you. You have had multiple careers. You've modeled, you've acted, you've written, you've become a beauty founder and in no small task. And also now. Sorry, Stuber, but you are stepping into. Thanks, boo. Am I missing anything? I don't think I am.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Okay.

[Emisha Gormley]

Was there a moment when you realized that you wanted to build something really real and that was beyond being just in front of the camera and building things for other people.

[Molly Sims]

Listen, I've always truly loved, you know, my career. It has not always been the way I thought it was going to be. It came with a lot of hard times, good times, stressful times. But I think if I look back and I think, okay, that was like a good 10 years. I think I've always been the one to maybe look ahead, what's next? I think also because of my profession, I mean, I knew that I would, you know, only be 20, 25, 30, and then things would change. Because you get older when you're a

[Emisha Gormley]

model, but you've always had a work ethic.

[Molly Sims]

I've always had a work ethic, but I've also seen, you know, a little bit of the writing on the wall. It's not that I didn't modeling, but at one point there is an expiration date. Not in a bad way. It's just you get older. And I think I've done a really good job of trying to stay relevant but continue to get the things that I wanted personally, meaning getting married, having children. But I think, look, the struggles that I went through in my teens and my 20s today, being a founder, I can't even tell you how much I use the things that I've gone through. And I say this a lot when I speak on panels. It's like, you know, you are the captain of the plane. Pull down your oxygen mask, get your seatbelt on and get ready for the ride.

[Emisha Gormley]

And you handle it very well.

[Molly Sims]

I think the moment I realized, and I don't think it was one moment, I think it was leading up to I just had had my third baby in 20, 2019, I was having a problem. I'd had a problem four, five plus years before 2019 with my skin. I didn't set out to build a beauty brand, but what I did set out to do with get organized with the home edit, with being able to work with Clea and Joanna and a little bit starting to be behind the camera, I don't know, it just intrigued me and intrigued me to start with something that was just an idea right and then bring it to life. It was just such a very, how do I say, this rewarding moment to be.

[Emisha Gormley]

It was validating.

[Molly Sims]

It was validating to be with some, you know, something at the beginning is just an idea. So I always love that part of it of producing. And look, producing is not for the faint of heart. You get no money. You have to see things, read things, push things, have a very strong point of view. You have to know when to push. You also have to know when to

[Emisha Gormley]

pull back and when to be quiet

[Molly Sims]

and when to be quiet. Especially when you're working with creatives who need moments, who need time. So that part of that producing world kind of came together and I was always like you, an avid reader. Like, I loved, you know, there wasn't a thriller that I probably had not read. And when, you know, Mrs. Parrish came along in 2017 or 18, I always loved that book.

[Emisha Gormley]

I found that book.

[Molly Sims]

You found that book. And then to get, you know, Dana Spector from CAA to help me and Kira Goldberg from Netflix and Liza Chasen and it just, it took six years.

[Emisha Gormley]

But you got there.

[Molly Sims]

But we got there.

[Emisha Gormley]

So let's talk about that shift from model to actor, then actor to this next chapter. What was that like?

[Molly Sims]

I think modeling was always something I was trying to figure out. Look, I came up in the time of heroin chic, Corinne Day, Kate Moss. I was not the body type. It was very thin, very grungy. I cut off all my hair, dyed it jet black. I used espresso, the last color in the Clairol box selection at Walgreens. It was a difficult time because a, I left Vanderbilt, I was a Tri Delt. I was such. I was so a part of something that, you know, was just built into my college life. Then I moved from Nashville, Tennessee to New York City and then New York to Germany. And I think, look, it was a real shock to someone who had always been go with the flow, easy, had friends, culturally so different, culturally so different that I was really lonely. And becoming a model was not an easy feat, especially with my weight. I was not built like a Brazilian 14 year old ever. And so that was really tricky because I wasn't a runaway model. And then, you know, I didn't want to be just a catalog girl. And so it was, it was a lot to navigate and to build. But then I just kept going and, you know, one shoot led to another shoot and then it's a lot of no's that you turn into yeses. So right there, lesson number one, someone tells You? No. For me, it makes me actually go the other way. Really? You don't think I can do it right? So that's always been a propeller. I think for some people, if we take it back to someone who wants to change their careers or jobs or boyfriend, like taking a no and changing it to a yes.

[Emisha Gormley]

Just don't accept the no.

[Molly Sims]

Just don't accept the no. But I think for me, with modeling to hosting, I didn't really ever think about hosting. It was never, you know, something in my vernacular, I didn't even really know what a host did. Sports Illustrated did a lot for me. MTV did a lot for me. Taking those pivotal pop culture moments and making the absolute most of them. I was told I was going to be on House of Style four to five times a year, or I could be on every single day after school on a little show called Mission Makeover that I think we did, like 50 episodes where I would surprise a guest, get their hair and makeup done, styling, and then, you know, show up at a prom with them. I struggled with the fact that I had worked so hard. I was living still in Paris and New York, and there I was doing a show after school that paid me a dollar. But I listened. I listened to people. Adam Sher, I learned, was really pivotal. Like, he was like, I'm telling you, this will be very good for you after school. Everyone's going to start to know your name right now. They only knew me from SP Illustrated, a little bit of Old Navy cover girl. But that decision to go on every single day after school was very big for me. Then I went to acting school. I did two years at the Sanford Meisner while still living in Paris, New York. It was crazy. I took something like 77 red eyes. And then I did an audition for Las Vegas on NBC.

[Emisha Gormley]

The theme here is you have kept moving forward and you never took no for an answer. You just weren't afraid to gamble on yourself.

[Molly Sims]

You have to gamble on yourself. And again, taking a break, staying in one place. I loved as to visit you in New York and not stay home and date. But again, what are your priorities? What do you want? I wanted to be married, but I really wanted a family. More than even being married, I wanted children. But I think the theme is turn your nose into yeses. For me, it was wanting to be a part of something, not just coming at the end of something. Okay, your turn.

[Emisha Gormley]

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[Emisha Gormley]

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[Emisha Gormley]

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[Emisha Gormley]

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[Emisha Gormley]

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[Molly Sims]

your career in fashion consumer brands working with incredible designers before stepping into true entrepreneurship. A lot of people don't know Em Michelle, which I want to tell her to tell a little bit of her fashion background. You're from? From Canada. Recently from Toronto. Club Monaco. Take us back.

[Emisha Gormley]

My little Hungarian.

[Molly Sims]

My little Hungarian.

[Emisha Gormley]

My little Hungarian. I grew up with parents who thought that I could have one of two careers, law or medicine. If you are a child of an immigrant, you know this, there was really no other option and my parents sacrificed a lot to give me the opportunity to do something different. And I sucked at science. So medicine pretty quickly went out the window. And I thought Ally McBeal was really cute in her lawsuit, fighting in a courtroom. So I thought I could be a lawyer. And so I went to university, the University of Toronto. And my dad didn't let me pick my courses. He picked them for me because first of all he was like, I'm paying for your education so you're gonna take the classes I want you to take. And long story short, I ended up forging my report card, flunking out of school. Really just not being a great student or child. Like if my kids did that to me now I'd have a heart attack. But I got caught. Year two I was, we don't, we didn't have freshman sophomore, we didn't call them that in Canada. I was a second year student and I got put on academic probation. But yet again, I forged my report card and I got Caught. And my dad took me down to the dean's office. And the dean was like, you guys need to have an honest conversation about what you want to do in life. And my dad was like, she wants to be a lawyer. And I was like, no, I really don't. And long story short, I told him I wanted to do PR. My dad's exact answer was, what the fuck is PR? This was 1998. PR was not something that my immigrant parents understood. They were like, what? And so that summer, I was determined to prove them wrong. I was determined to get myself out of academic probation. And I got an internship at a company called Roots.

[Molly Sims]

And I ended up very big Canadian company.

[Emisha Gormley]

Very big Canadian company. They made really awesome leather backpacks. They also did the Olympic year for the U.S. team for Nagano. And that turned into a full time job. And I started my career in fashion. My mom was really proud of me. I mean, she was devastated initially when I moved to New York, but I got to move to New York with Club Monaco and Ralph Lauren and I built my career. And I worked in PR and marketing for a number of years. And I lived and breathed fashion, as Molly knows, since I was a kid. I used to sit by my grandmother's feet when she was a seamstress and make clothes. And I would go to the fabric stores with her. So clothing has always excited me. To me, it is a core memory of my childhood. My mother would take me to the nice stores and look at the dresses and then have my grandmother make them for me at home. And it's always been a part of my DNA in such a way. So working in fashion, getting to be a part of Fashion Week kind of at the time where, I mean, you know, it's shifted so much. Like to have been able to be at the Bryant park tents, to see the electricity. It's just not music coming on. Going from dark to light, I still get goosebumps.

[Molly Sims]

Me too.

[Emisha Gormley]

I've been a part of some, you know, iconic brands like Diane von Furstenberg was on everybody's lips back in the day. And she's still an icon, but that was when she was the head of the cfda.

[Molly Sims]

I was in the building she was on in the meatpacking district. And I would be visiting Emma Sha, and I would hear Dionne over the intercom going, emmy Shay, Emma Shay, come up to the penthouse, please.

[Emisha Gormley]

And I would go running up and I. I mean, she was. It was hands down the best part of my career. I got to travel to places like Turkey and China and Russia and Brazil and places I would never, ever, ever get to go. But then I started to consult. I took all those years of working for other people, and once I got married, Mike likes to say that I got married and I quit my job, which I technically did.

[Molly Sims]

I mean, technically, but not really. But a side hustle. You bought bags and then sold them

[Emisha Gormley]

to people I will never forget. Tina Craig is. I always credit her for being the one that was my first client. I always told her I wanted to quit working in consulting. She said, great, I'm launching this handbag line for hsn. I will be your first client. And I said, okay. And I remember coming home and telling Mike, I'm like, I'm gonna quit my job. I've got my first client. It's Tina. And Tina is like the ultimate connector. And I started working with her. And then I quickly got Hunting Season is another handbag line. I still love hunting season.

[Molly Sims]

I still love hunting season.

[Emisha Gormley]

And I started to collect clients. I did revolve and forward for a long time. I've had 19 lives. I started a baby food. Sarah Belly was my baby. I had had my second child. And an ex boyfriend's friend called me up when I was in your backyard in LA and was like, hey, I want to start this company with my sister. Do you want to do it? And I'm like, this is out of my, like, realm of knowledge, but sure. And so I got my taste of startup world, and I did that for four years.

[Molly Sims]

Think about how much you learned in those four years.

[Emisha Gormley]

I learned so much. And I think if there's one thing that I can look back on, and I think for anyone listening, don't ever kind of doubt yourself and don't dumb yourself down to make other people feel comfortable or safe. And don't be afraid to fake it till you make it. Because I actually was telling this story with Doreen the other day at dinner. I would sit in this room full of really smart people, and I was like the dumb fashion girl at the table. But I was basically trying to put this company together at the time. And I was hiring a creative agency, and all these MBA kids would be sitting there, and they were all younger than me, and. And they would just speak in acronyms. They'd be like. They said the ROI and the blah, blah, blah. And I would sit there and I'd go, what the fuck does that mean? And I would take my phone out and I would Google acronyms so I could start to learn. I would never ask. I was never Going to, like, put my hand up and go, excuse me, what does that mean? They already thought I was, like, the dumb fashion girl in the room. So I just had to play the role. And it taught me a ton. I eventually did not want to work the way that I needed to work because I had three small children, and I missed out so much on my baby's first year of her life. And the most devastating part, and I still get really upset about it, is she called my nanny mama. Do you remember that?

[Molly Sims]

She didn't mean it.

[Emisha Gormley]

She didn't mean it. And I'm sure that there are at least a handful of listeners that are listening to this that have had this happen where you have the guilt, where you're like, I'm working my ass off, Someone else is caring for my kid, and, oh, my God, does my baby love that person more and more. I remember I called Molly hysterical. She told me to call Bronwyn. God bless Bronwyn. This was also all in depths of COVID by the way. And I called Bronwyn.

[Molly Sims]

We were a hot mess.

[Emisha Gormley]

Hot mess. I was fat. I had lash extensions falling off my eyes. I was sweating and trying to sell baby food. And then this nanny that I adore and to this day is still my nanny, and I say, nanny, shout out, Ruti. Shout out to Ruti. She's family to us. And I broke down in tears, and she said, mom is just a word. These babies, they don't know what it means. She knows you're her mother. And she goes, the fact that you have someone that loves your kids as much as you do is something you have to be grateful for. And I think that as a working mom, at that point, I was working full time. I was on a zoom constantly. I felt so much guilt, like, am I fucking my kid up? And I kept working for Sarah Belly for about another year and a half. And then I realized that I was like, I can't do this anymore. I can't not be there for my kids the way that I want to show up for them. And so I went back to consulting because that felt like so much safer and more flexible. And now I'm a creator, so I don't know how it all happens.

[Molly Sims]

We've pivoted again.

[Emisha Gormley]

We've pivoted again. But I, two years ago, looked Mike in the eye and I said, I

[Molly Sims]

told you this three years ago, four

[Emisha Gormley]

years ago, take a bet on yourself. And I took a bet on myself. I can genuinely say I've never been happier, professionally speaking. I get to do the job that I secretly always wanted to do. I always wanted to be a magazine editor, and now I get to do that, and I get to co host a podcast and meet people with my best friend and learn. And I think that there is something to be said for just taking a chance. Taking a chance. And I took a chance.

[Molly Sims]

I mean, let's talk about.

[Emisha Gormley]

Well, let's talk about what you. Because this is. I think the fear of starting over is something that is very daunting and I think holds back a lot of women. I mean, financial security is 100% something, but there's also just a fear of failure. What would you say you were most afraid of when you stepped into this next chapter? And do you define that moment as starting wise or something else?

[Molly Sims]

Probably wise, because I was so financially putting myself out there, and I was putting myself out there with my name. I'd never done, you know, put my name besides CoverGirl with, like, a serious beauty company. I think I was most afraid because I was known for beauty. And I thought, okay, well, if this doesn't. I'm taking myself out of such a. Of a market that I actually work in, and I still work in, which I think is really smart, because I don't just use wise. And so I was very conscious. I had an investor meet with me early on, and they were like, well, you know, you can't work with any other brands. And I was like, but I do. And that's the brands I use and why I can't tell my consumer, my community, my girl that just use wise. And they were very opposed to it. Again, because I wasn't pushing wise. And I'm like, okay, well, I don't have a day moisturizer I'm gonna talk about. And I just remember, like, certain things that I was always trying to hold onto to make myself okay. Like, don't lose sight of that. I'm like, no, that doesn't sit right with me. Like, all the little lessons that I, you know, learned. But then that we're being questioned. Right. Like you said, when you're in a field that you're not really a part of, you start to doubt yourself.

[Emisha Gormley]

They want to sometimes make you feel small, and that's tough.

[Molly Sims]

Yeah, like the naming of my products. They thought I was crazy. I'm only launching with, like, four or five products. There's no lines of, you know, 10,000 SKUs. 10,000 SKUs. Just early on, I was betting on so much. I think the financial part of it, I literally, at one point Was told I could start the brand for like $750,000. And I think they were like $2 million off. And that was a little bit of a gut punch. A little bit of a gut punch. Stomach churning. Thank God I'd saved my money. I'd worked, you know, 15, 18 years before this. Quick story. April 24th. We launched on April 25th, 2023. Three years ago, Schaefer and I had done our first Instagram for wise, like it's coming and I think it got like a hundred likes. And I remember calling you, I'm like, did you get this, this post?

[Emisha Gormley]

I remember this. Oh my God, yes.

[Molly Sims]

And you were like, no. And I'm like. And then I called someone else. I'm like, did you get this post? And something was wrong. Instagram somehow meta went down. I have never in my life internally panicked as much as that moment. I mean, Shaffer and I looked at each other and we were like, we're done. We're fucking done. This ship is not gonna happen. And then the next day at midnight, I woke up at like 5 o' clock in the morning and I was on the east coast time. Cause we launched in New York and our sales were already at like $8,000. I was like $8,000. We were running $8,000. And then by the time we closed that first day, we were over 100 or $200,000.

[Emisha Gormley]

Amazing.

[Molly Sims]

And I was like, maybe this is gonna work. But again, it's the very beginning and you never know. But it was definitely an intimidating, nerve wracking, stomach churning place to put em everything out there. And I always remember they were always like, you know, why can't you just name it? Your name?

[Emisha Gormley]

Yeah.

[Molly Sims]

I was like, because it's not a Molly Sims brand. It's, it's a brand on its own. What skills, as someone who worked in marketing and pr, do you feel you've carried over to now?

[Emisha Gormley]

I think for me, I spent my entire career marketing and working with brands that targeted women in their 30s, 40s, 50s. That was kind of my sweet spot for every brand that I worked with. So I always kind of had to know how to appeal to that demographic and also know what that demographic was looking for. And as a brand working for a brand, knowing what success looked like for that brand. So I think having had that kind of education, for lack of a better word, is probably what has made me feel comfortable in this space. I've just only ever dealt kind of in this age range of women. And I think, you know, you started a Brand targeting women over 40. And I say this every single day. I'm 40, I'm almost 48 years old. I think we're the most overlooked group of women. And I do think that a lot of companies are starting to wake up and realize. But you know, when you're in your 20s, you're ragingly insecure, you don't have a lot of money, you're trying to figure out who you are, you're following what other people do, what other people are wearing. In your 30s, you're scrappy, you're maybe trying to get married or trying to have a baby or try to save for your first house. Get the raise, get the, get the raise. You're like, you're trying to figure out who you are. But I think, you know, in my 40s, I am, I feel better about myself in every single way than I did ever before. And you also have more disposable income, you have financial security, you own your house, whether you have planned for your kids colleges or your kids are actually at college or finished college. You know, I started having kids late or later I should say. And I think that I know now like in my head what women my age want, how they want to be talked to, partially because I am that woman. And I think that that skill set has really helped me know how to communicate with my own peers. And also what makes a brand feel like you partnering with them or you promoting their product actually is a sign of success.

[Molly Sims]

And you can't be everything to everyone.

[Emisha Gormley]

No, you have to be truthful. Like I think that's like my biggest gripe is always I will not hawk anything that I don't genuinely like. I'm in it for the long haul, not like the short term gain. I'd rather make, you know, less money now but more money longer term. It's very, very short sighted to not think that people can see through your lack of authenticity. Like if you're just selling something to make a buck or everything is an ad, I personally think that's deteriorating who you are. And I think that comes into play from a lot of what I saw professionally and learned.

[Molly Sims]

Well, I think also what you learned is you learned the world of brand building, world building, community building, right from having such, you know, different lenses of the company, whether it's comms, pr, brand marketing. How does this come to life? How do we show up and you know, listen, a lot has changed, especially in the last three plus years. You have AI being introduced, you have so many different platforms, like it's not just Instagram anymore, Now it's Instagram, TikTok, Pinterest, YouTube. Like, there's so, so many different verticals that you have to feed and they are all so different. And I think you had like a really good. This is why I think you're so brilliant with brand is you've had that kind of inside peek on, like, how did Diane do it? How did Club Monaco do it? How did Sarah Belly do it? Like, who's the community? Who's your Amy's, your Laurens, your Jennifer? How do they buy? What do they want?

[Emisha Gormley]

I think the biggest thing that I've seen, and I think you and I have talked about this at length, is I think the success of anything and everything that you do build work for. It is so important to listen to your community, to not be bullish and to not think that you know everything. I think that there are brilliant companies out there that have had the single best products known to man, that fail because there is too big of an ego in the room. And I have seen that, unfortunately more than once. And I think that knowing what you can and cannot do is so important. Knowing what you can't do, I think half the time is more important than knowing what you can do.

[Molly Sims]

It's a superpower. It is a superpower hiring really smart people around you. But again, don't not take the seat at the table. Don't not have a voice. I mean, I work with a lot of young, talented women and Jose, but it's really important show up, especially for the young ones. You'll learn a lot, take on as much as you absolutely can. Become the unicorn that they can't get rid of.

[Emisha Gormley]

Say yes to everything.

[Molly Sims]

Say yes.

[Emisha Gormley]

Like, don't be like, that's not on my job description. That was my pet fucking peeve. Whenever someone worked for me was like, well, that's not in my job description. Okay, well then you don't have a job. Let's talk about what people can actually do if they're feeling stuck. Because I do think that, you know, with you're in your 40s, I don't know, a million and one people that work professionally and are like, I love my job.

[Molly Sims]

You're never going to love your job at all the time.

[Emisha Gormley]

I mean, so let's talk about that.

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[Emisha Gormley]

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[Molly Sims]

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[Emisha Gormley]

I couldn't agree with that more. And I think the other part of that is talk to as many people as possible. These informational conversations, the people that you meet, you don't know who they will connect you to. You don't know what information you will glean from them. And I also think equally important is paying that back. I think that, you know, there's always a loop there. The amount of times I have actually reached out to someone and that person has been pivotal in helping me get to the next place. You have to pay that forward. I think it's something that is so, so, so important. And I think that, you know, if you're trying to do something completely different, find someone that's doing what you want to do, talk to them, ask them what that really looks like. Because you also sometimes can glamorize what something is. You know, even what I do on a day to day basis, like I downplay it. I'm embarrassed about it a lot of the time. But whenever I say, oh my God, it's not a real job, I actually have to say, it is a real job. It is a. I have worked harder, truly, truly, truly than I have in a really long time. Because it's kind of an eat what you kill, right? So if you want to get paid. You kind of have to do the work every day. You can't just sit back and let it run.

[Molly Sims]

You're a model, you're an influencer, you're an editor, you're photographer.

[Emisha Gormley]

You have to take ego out of it. You cannot be like, I wonder. Oh God. I don't want this person to like laugh at me or I want this person to. I mean, it is. There is so many things at play on a daily basis that you have to kind of just push your way through. And I think that is the case. Forget what I do for a living or what you do for a living. Any job you go into, you're trying something new, you're putting yourself out there and you're taking a risk. You have to just let your ego go in that.

[Molly Sims]

Don't be afraid to ask questions, don't be afraid to ask for help. Don't be afraid to have a 15 minute zoom of 30 minute coffee.

[Emisha Gormley]

And don't be afraid to make a mistake.

[Molly Sims]

I just asked to meet the. There's the new chief of AI at Lionsgate. I'm like, stuber, can you get me a meeting? And he called Michael Burns. And Michael Burns was like, okay, I can make this happen. Oh, look at this woman. And again, it's just people helping people do it.

[Emisha Gormley]

Well, this is irony for me to say, but I'm gonna say build a financial Runway. I always been terrible with money. My dad gave me a $5 a week allowance. My grandmother would give me 20 and I would spend 30. And that started happening probably about the age of nine. Did not set me up for financial success. It has only been in the last, call it year, year and a half where I took a, a step back and said to myself, okay, I'm gonna allow myself to spend this much a month. I'm gonna allow myself to save this much a month. And then this is what I'm contributing to our children's education. Whatever expenses, house expenses. But I think that the more financial security you can build yourself. I mean, to your point, you felt confident building and putting money into your own business because you could speak, but

[Molly Sims]

don't spend money on stupid shit like don't buy 17 bags. Buy one great bag. And again, look, this is in bred in me because so many of my friends spend all their money on clothes when I was a model and my mom would always say, like, buy one thing, it's not buy one good thing, it's not. All that shit's not even going to be here in two years. Yeah, I Think she was right.

[Emisha Gormley]

I think that there's. Listen, different strokes for different folks.

[Molly Sims]

Different folks for different strokes. But put, put it where you can't. You can't get a hold of it.

[Emisha Gormley]

Make sure that you know what you have and what you don't have. And I think that's like one of the things where I always say Burden

[Molly Sims]

talked about 100% your financial.

[Emisha Gormley]

Know what your husband and you have, know what your needs are, know what you can and can't afford, and be smart and also teach your kids good financial habits because I will tell you, my parents did not, God bless them, test your interests.

[Molly Sims]

Do you love the idea? Do you love the actual work or do you love the idea of the work? I think a lot of people think they want to work, think they want to start a brand. I mean, if I knew now what I knew even three years ago, I don't know that I would have started the brand. It doesn't mean I don't love it. It's just sometimes you have to take that.

[Emisha Gormley]

It's a lot of sacrifice.

[Molly Sims]

It's a lot of sacrifice, but you have to really love what you're doing or don't do it and switch gears and that's okay. And a lot of things don't work out, but maybe they're not supposed to. Right?

[Emisha Gormley]

I couldn't agree more. I think that sometimes the idea of something is a lot shinier and sexier than the actual thing.

[Molly Sims]

Embrace beginning status. Don't view it as embarrassing. It's exciting.

[Emisha Gormley]

I think that's so true. All right, let's debunk some things.

[Molly Sims]

Exactly. Is it too late? There's no expiration date for reinvention.

[Emisha Gormley]

I think some of the most successful founders didn't start their companies until they were even in their 50s.

[Molly Sims]

I know.

[Emisha Gormley]

So no.

[Molly Sims]

Also, you're leveraging all the experience, all the, the falls, all the ouches, all the wins. Like that all can help you do and be. I mean, look, I never in a million years thought I would have a beauty company, a production company, a podcast. You know, I'm used to hearing no. I'm used to things not working out. So you just keep going and you start to take chances on yourself. And then, okay, I started out with person taking over my podcast and my production company. And then you're like, okay, wait, maybe I can hire one full time person. Then I could hire one person who did half nanning. Like you can. You just have to kind of figure it out. Go slow.

[Emisha Gormley]

Yeah, here's one that I think is such a myth needing to have everything figured out. I don't think I have tomorrow figured out half the time. And I think that if you're looking for something concrete and solid to lean on, you should never. Don't do it then. I think that there is nothing absolute in anything that we do.

[Molly Sims]

One career defines you forever. No, no, no.

[Emisha Gormley]

Not at all. No, no, no. Starting over means starting from zero.

[Molly Sims]

You're not. I mean, I don't care what age you are, you're bringing in all the armor, all the resilience, all the experience. Experience to go where you are now. And you're going to gain whatever that's going to be on the journey. And again, it's like I always say, like, okay, maybe you don't go to college, or maybe you move to Europe, or maybe you take a year off, or maybe you try this thing. There's no. There's no recipe. There's no magic scenario that it's like, okay, if you do this, you're gonna get this. If you do this, you're gonna get this. I mean, we've had Covid. We'd have 9, 11.

[Emisha Gormley]

We've had illness.

[Molly Sims]

Illness. Bad. Shit happens. You don't know. I do believe in luck, but I do. I believe in making your own luck.

[Emisha Gormley]

I think you make your own luck. I think timing is everything, and I also think you can make your own luck. All right, we're gonna ask each other this question. What's the most fulfilling part of this chapter for you?

[Molly Sims]

I get to be a boss. No, I'm just joking. I think I get to work with really smart people. I get to be really, truly creative, whether it from a script, you know, working on a movie, however hard that might be, or a project. I had so much fun on Extreme Glow, the Dewey Peptide, because everybody told me not to do it. And we just had such fun working on it. And our little team was like, right, this is gonna fucking crush. And it does. And it did. But it was so fun. How are we showing up? And what is it gonna look like? And how's it gonna make you feel? And, yes, you have the PD of what it actually does. But I think I get to work with so many groups of really talented people, and it makes me so curious. And, you know, when we get through, like, a rough patch, we're like, it

[Emisha Gormley]

made you stronger, though.

[Molly Sims]

We got through that. But, yeah, I love working with my team. That means you guys sitting in the corner over there. Okay, for you, what's been the most fulfilling part?

[Emisha Gormley]

I think I always go back to this. I used to sit in a room, you know, showing editors collections, and I'd always be like, God damn it, I want that job. And I would pine to be the fashion editor, market editor of Lucky or Glamour or, you know, whatever magazine I was with, but they also paid peanuts. And I was like, well, my parents can't pay my rent. I have to pay my own rent. And I was like, I can't afford to do that job. And I think the most fulfilling part for me is I get to do that. I get to play in a world that I always wanted to play in. And I also genuinely love the community I have. I have like, the fucking best group of women. And I love when, you know, I do like an ask me anything, and someone will be like, hey, you know, my son's wedding is coming up and I hate my arms. And I'm like, all right, we're gonna find you the best fucking dress that you're gonna wear. And they send me a picture and I'm like, you know what? You looked amazing. And I love that. I think that I'm building this little community of women that love all the same things, and I feel like they're friends that I don't know in person, but it's just nice to have that. I don't know. I just love that I get to balance working and having a successful career with being able to be at my kids sports games, cooking dinner, taking them to their doctor's appointment. I get to be the stay at home mom that still gets to do what she wants to do.

[Molly Sims]

What's been the most surprising?

[Emisha Gormley]

That people actually give a shit what I wear or what I'm wearing or what I'm doing. Like, that kind of blows me away. I'm always like, really? Me? Because I'm not like, I'm not you. No, but it's true. You know what I mean? Like, I've always been in the world of fashion, entertainment, surrounded by people that,

[Molly Sims]

you know, like real creatives.

[Emisha Gormley]

Real creatives and like, you know, celebrities that like, everybody cares about and wants to know more about. So it's just sort of of funny to me that people are like, what's that? They'll zoom in on something and be like, what's that in your back corner of your. And I'm like, really?

[Molly Sims]

So that's surprising is what it is. It's Hermes beauty.

[Emisha Gormley]

It's something I spend money on.

[Molly Sims]

Oh, but it's true. I mean, listen, I think the most surprising thing is that you stay Curious. I think for me, like, the surprise that I've come from all of us that I'm so curious. I'm still like, oh, we can do that.

[Emisha Gormley]

I still want to build more. I mean, I'm working on something.

[Molly Sims]

Oh, she's got something on her side.

[Emisha Gormley]

I've got something that must think about. But I think that, you know, I think Brooke Shields said this so well. It's never really settling on, like, where you are. You kind of want to have longevity. And listen, I love what I do, but I also don't want to keep sticking my octobuddy on my window to take outfit selfies. Like, I want to do something that,

[Molly Sims]

you know, I love an outfit selfie.

[Emisha Gormley]

For me, I love an outfit selfie. I really do. And my neighbors and my garbage men and everyone that drives by my house sees me do it every day. And it's mortifying.

[Molly Sims]

But the best is when Lily wrote you your Mother's day card. And they're like, what does my mom do for a living?

[Emisha Gormley]

No, what does she like to wear? There was two things my mom likes to shop for Chanel and my. What does your mom like to wear? And it was clothes that get sent to her. And I also like to cook salad.

[Molly Sims]

Love you do my dreams.

[Emisha Gormley]

She really knows me well.

[Molly Sims]

You do cook a really good salad.

[Emisha Gormley]

Make a great salad.

[Molly Sims]

I love these conversations.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

I do too.

[Molly Sims]

They're so fun. And we get asked all the time. It's never too late. Honestly, believe in yourself.

[Emisha Gormley]

Don't listen to the noise. And by the way, that's a big thing. I'm gonna just say this. Sometimes some people don't.

[Molly Sims]

Sometimes people don't want you to succeed.

[Emisha Gormley]

Amen. I have such a thing where women don't support women. We are the biggest cheerleaders. We root for everyone. We wanna see everyone win. If you have an idea, I'm gonna look at this camera and speak like this, because I'm not very good at doing that. But I'm gonna do it now. If you idea and you believe in yourself, take a chance. Set yourself up for success. Surround yourself with people that believe in you. Because I do think that if you persevere and work hard and do the things, you can be successful and just trust yourself and trust your instincts. You. I think that is my biggest thing with you, Molly, is you have trusted your instincts throughout the process of building wise. And I think that is something that takes confidence. So trusting your instincts takes confidence. And I think when you have that, you can really go far.

[Molly Sims]

You gotta trust Your gut. I mean, it's sometimes not fun. And, you know, you don't want to be the one to teach someone a lesson. Cause you're like, I love this person, or I wanna keep this person, or I love what they do, or they're so smart. And, you know, you have to trust your gut. You know, it's like a. It's a very hard lesson to learn, but it is a very hard muscle to learn. And I think the last piece I'm gonna leave everybody with is have boundaries. Also protect yourself. Sometimes it's not gonna work out, and that's okay. I think what makes my company something happy Productions. Sometimes it's gonna work, and sometimes it doesn't. I think that's why we've been so successful. We're very picky. We don't wanna be in development hell. We really take pride in what we like, and we're. We're aesthetically cool and amazing. We like to see your products are good.

[Emisha Gormley]

They're great.

[Molly Sims]

Yeah. But I'm talking about, like, in terms of, like, film and tv. Like, we're not. We don't. We don't try to be everything to everyone. We don't take on and meet with these incredible writers and directors and. Because you're wasting their time when you know you can't get something made. I think that's why people are starting to come to us, is because we really take pride in what we take on, and we're very discerning.

[Emisha Gormley]

Yeah.

[Molly Sims]

Go something happy.

[Emisha Gormley]

Oh. I mean, we've. You know what? I feel like we've done a lot. We've done a lot in the last few years that a lot of people would be afraid to do. So if there's one takeaway, take a bet on yourself.

[Molly Sims]

Take a bet. Go buy my clothes.

[Emisha Gormley]

No, I kidding. And also find friends that support you.

[Molly Sims]

Yeah. Very, very important. Because some friends will disappoint.

[Emisha Gormley]

Yes, Sadly, I know. All right, well, they'll come back. We are. We are. We. We know who our people are.

[Molly Sims]

We know how our people. Four quarters, not 100 pennies.

[Emisha Gormley]

Yeah.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Amen.

[Molly Sims]

Okay. I love you.

[Emisha Gormley]

Love you. Bye.

[Molly Sims]

Thanks for listening to Lipstick on the Rim with Molly Sims and My Ride or Die. Emisha Gormley. We are so excited to bring you guys along on this journey with us. You can find us on Instagram and TikTok Ipstic on the Rim and Molly B. Sims, or you go to my blog where you can dive just a little bit deeper into my favorite products, trends, and [e-mail] don't forget to check out our video episodes on my YouTube channel. Molly Sims this podcast is production with Sony New Music. I wanted to give a special thanks to my team, Rosie Cummings, Ken Orion, Sophine Kevorkin and everyone at Sony Music. Don't forget to listen and follow wherever you get your podcast so you never miss out on the fun.