What No One Tells You About Getting Fired — with Laura Brown & Kristina O’Neill

Summary

Lipstick on the Rim — Episode Summary

Episode Title: What No One Tells You About Getting Fired — with Laura Brown & Kristina O'Neill
Hosts: Molly Sims & Emese Gormley
Guests: Laura Brown & Kristina O’Neill
Date: November 25, 2025

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Overview

This episode of Lipstick on the Rim delves into the taboo and sometimes shame-filled world of getting fired. Molly Sims and Emese Gormley bring on fashion media legends Laura Brown (ex-InStyle) and Kristina O’Neill (ex-WSJ Magazine) to discuss their new book, All the Cool Girls Get Fired, and to explore the realities, emotions, and ultimate reinventions that can come after being let go. With humor, honesty, and classic cool-girl candor, they bust the myth that being fired is the end—showing instead how it became a powerful turning point in their lives and careers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power of a Forced Reset

• Both Brown and O’Neill describe the shock and pain of being let go from the top of their field—but also how it offered the chance for self-discovery and reinvention.
• Quote [03:01]: "I think there's something really powerful about starting over...sometimes life forces us to reset. And boy, have we reset." – Emese Gormley

2. Personal Histories & Career Highs

• Laura talks about her humble beginnings on a farm in Sydney, her love for magazines, and moving to NYC shortly before 9/11 ([05:42–06:52]).
• Kristina charts her journey: a decade each at Harper’s Bazaar and WSJ Magazine ([08:49–09:04]).
• The hosts credit Laura and Kristina for modernizing iconic brands and reflecting real cultural shifts ([07:22–08:41]).

3. The Reality of Getting Fired

• Laura recounts being let go with her entire print team at InStyle over Zoom—with just 20 minutes’ notice ([11:08–12:24]).

• Kristina describes her firing from WSJ as a targeted move under a new editor—feeling both blindsided and singled out ([12:39–13:48]).

• The process is clinical, impersonal, and gutting—recounted with both humor and vulnerability.

  • Quote [11:49]: "You wouldn’t look at this woman and go, this is a statesman. I tried to be. And I got everyone back on this particular zoom link...and I said to the team...your work is yours. What you've learned is yours. You take this with you. Don't give it up to them." – Laura Brown

4. Shame, Shock, and the Shame Spiral

• The hosts and guests open up about the initial shame and secrecy around being fired, especially in high-achieving environments ([18:00–19:18]).
• Quote [18:26]: "You're gonna learn from this. You're like, okay, I'm gonna choke you." – Emese Gormley, about the advice people give when you're fired

5. Taking Control of the Narrative

• Laura and Kristina chose to own their stories publicly—posting a now-iconic Instagram photo with the caption, “All The Cool Girls Get Fired”—sparking a deluge of support and shared stories from women everywhere ([21:39–25:16]).
• Quote [23:44]: “It’s like reading beautiful eulogies about yourself, but you’re still alive.” – Laura Brown
• Embrace honesty—spinning or hiding the truth just delays healing ([24:05–24:21]).

6. Logistics & Survival: Practical First Steps

• Immediate challenges: loss of income, insurance, and personal identity.
• Tips: get real about finances, cut discretionary spending, ask for help, and be upfront with friends and family ([25:16–27:16]).
  • “The chapters in the book are in the order of panic: money, health insurance, get down to brass tacks,” says Laura Brown ([26:03]).
  • Find empowerment in small wins—like saving on groceries or cable bills.

7. Advice for Reinvention

• Give yourself time—grieve and reflect, then move forward. Don’t let shame or fear stop you from telling your truth ([22:29], [36:23]).
  • Quote [36:29]: “Give it time, own it. Like, speak up, tell people that you’re going through it.” – Kristina O’Neill
• Understand that even household names (featured in their book: Oprah, Jamie Lee Curtis, Katie Couric) have been fired—and it was the making of them ([28:12–29:53]).
  • “Every single woman we spoke to had an incredibly distinct, almost muscle memory of the day they got fired and what people said.” – Laura Brown ([28:33])

8. The Big Picture: Changing the Narrative About Failure

• The book aims to normalize job loss as part of life—even for the “ultimate cool girls”—and to encourage resilience, honesty, and solidarity ([39:23–40:22]).
  • “We don’t have that many role models that are publicly out there being like, ‘Hey, I got fired. I’ve been through it. It sucked. But I came out better, stronger, smarter.’” – Christina O’Neill ([40:00])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the shock of getting fired:
  • “I don’t want to brag, but I was fired first.” – Laura Brown ([10:53])
  • “My job was really—I was wrapped in it.” – Christina O’Neill ([23:26])
• On social media & commiseration:
  • “It’s very much like reading eulogies about yourself, but you’re still alive.” – Laura Brown ([23:46])
• On money and practicalities:
  • “Navigating the COBRA website literally moved us to tears.” – Christina O’Neill ([26:00])
• On honesty:
  • “The minute you start to spin or obfuscate or lie, you are just delaying your recovery, you know? And for what?” – Laura Brown ([24:05])
• On legendary contributors and shared stories:
  • “Every single woman we spoke to had incredibly distinct, almost muscle memory of the day they got fired...Oprah remembers the beverage the person firing her was drinking.” – Laura Brown ([28:33])
• Quickfire Q&A Highlights:
  • “First big fashion splurge?”
    – Laura: “A Miu Miu maroon mesh handbag...stolen from me in a pub in Sydney.” ([32:15]) – Christina: “Chanel bag.”
  • “Go-to beauty product?”
    – Christina: “Mascara.”
    – Laura: “Eyebrow pencil. I gotta make this up first.”

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Important Timestamps

| Time | Segment/Highlight | |------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:01 | Theme introduction: Power of starting over after losing a dream job | | 05:42 | Laura’s career origins (Australia to NYC) | | 08:41 | Making legacy magazines “cool” | | 10:53 | Laura’s account of being fired via Zoom | | 12:39 | Kristina’s account of being fired at WSJ Magazine | | 18:00 | Discussing shame and secrecy around getting fired | | 21:39 | The Instagram “cool girls get fired” moment | | 24:05 | Importance of honesty and not spinning the story | | 25:16 | Real-life logistics: money, healthcare, and practical survival | | 28:12 | How it felt interviewing icons like Oprah for the book | | 32:15–36:23| Fun quickfire Q&A: fashion splurges and beauty must-haves | | 36:29 | #1 advice: Give it time, be honest, change the narrative | | 39:23 | The book as a tool for younger women to understand resilience | | 40:00 | Why we need fired, public role models |

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Actionable Takeaways

• If You Get Fired…

  • Don’t hide it. Be honest with yourself and others—it’s more common than you think.
  • Handle the basics: finances, insurance, daily routines. Don’t be afraid to ask for guidance or help.
  • Take time. The hit to your identity is real and recovery isn’t overnight.

• For Reinvention:

  • Find power in small wins as you rebuild.
  • Use the experience as a launchpad for something new. The most successful women you know have been here, too.

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Closing Words

• Advice to younger selves:
  – Laura: “Calm down.” ([37:34])
  – Kristina: “Oh, it’s going to be okay. It all works out in the end.” ([37:40])

• Final Sentiment:
  “Let’s change the narrative. Let’s go. Let’s reinvent. But at the same time, it sucks. Doesn’t suck forever. It takes time and then it will be glorious. We promise.” — Laura Brown & Kristina O’Neill ([36:59–37:07])

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For More:

Follow Laura Brown (@laurabrown99), Kristina O’Neill (@ristinaoneill), and check out All the Cool Girls Get Fired on Instagram and in bookstores.

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This episode is a must-listen for anyone facing unemployment, feeling lost after a forced reset, or searching for inspiration to own their story and come back even stronger.

Transcript

[Molly Sims]

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[Emisha Gormley]

We're two girls obsessed with one thing, beauty. And by that, we mean everything that makes you look and feel beautiful.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

We're calling on our favorite health experts, industry insiders and friends to answer all.

[Emisha Gormley]

Your beauty questions with a drink in hand.

[Molly Sims]

Definitely with a drink in hand.

[Emisha Gormley]

You're listening to Lipstick on the Rim with Molly Sims. I don't know about you, but I think there's something really powerful about starting over, especially Hidden Planet. Whether it's a breakup, a move, and in this case, losing your dream job, sometimes life forces us to reset. And boy, have we reset.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

I mean, and it's one of those things that when it happens, it's very easy to focus on what you lost. But I also think it's an opportunity to rediscover or find something new and turn it into something powerful. And today's guests are the prime example of that.

[Emisha Gormley]

We are talking the ultimate cool girls, it girls, you name it. Laura Brown, Christina o', Neal, two fashion media icons. And we're gonna go through a little bit of their, their history. But leading InStyle, leaning WSJ magazine, to being, well, let go.

[Laura Brown]

That's a nice way to say thank you.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Got fired.

[Laura Brown]

Yeah.

[Emisha Gormley]

And now we are talking about their new book called all the Cool Girls Get Fired. We are so happy to have you. It's how to let go of being let go and come back on top. And I just want to say, I was like, looking. We did our. We read the book. But here are your contributors, as you know. But for our listeners, you gotta read this book. Your kids need to read this book. Oprah Winfrey, Jamie Lee Curtis, Lisa Kudrow, Katie Couric, Carol Burnett. It's amazing. Listen, we both know you separately. And you know, to us, you are icons. We grew up with you. We Grew up with you leading these incredible, you know, the Wall Street Journal, the In Style. Like, I don't, I don't know those publications without you. You know, I really, I really mean that.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

We're that generation of fashion. I mean, I was on the PR side with you guys.

[Laura Brown]

We were coming up together.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

We were, we were like the old.

[Emisha Gormley]

Guard and we wanted to have you guys on because our listeners, a lot of times like us need a reset.

[Christina O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Emisha Gormley]

And they don't know how to do it. And you're going to talk and you hear from two incredibly chic women. Laura Brown, let's start with you.

[Laura Brown]

Okay, so can you just like be our height woman forever? Everywhere we go, we just push sims out in front of them and say, say nice things. Thank you. Because we've been.

[Emisha Gormley]

And they were already up for nine.

[Laura Brown]

Hours at 10:00am so, Laura Brown, hello.

[Emisha Gormley]

Talk a little bit about. For our listeners who don't know where you came from. Give a little bit of a history.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Australia.

[Molly Sims]

Hint, hint, Australia.

[Laura Brown]

I came from the farm. Came from a farm in Sydney, Australia, you know, as a farmer's daughter in Sydney. And then myself and my mom moved to Central Syd. And all the way through, you know, primary school, high school, all I wanted to do was be in magazines. So I studied that. I, you know, did we call interning. Work experience. Work experience at all these magazines and studied it in college and was just dead set on that being my.

[Molly Sims]

Road.

[Laura Brown]

And it was in that era where this would have been like early, really early 90s, when all the Vogues and the Harper's Bazaars from the US would arrive like fairy dust in the mail. It was so other from. Because I grew up so far away. We grew up without the Internet. So there was this huge mythology to me of this business that I really was so desperate to get into. So, yeah, I moved to. I lived in London for a couple years and then moved to New York on September 4, 2001, with one and a half friends, I like to say, and about five grand. And randomly on September 10, 2001, the night before September 11, I was at the Marc Jacobs show where I happened to meet one Christina o'. Neill.

[Molly Sims]

Stop.

[Christina O'Neill]

Go figure.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Go figure.

[Christina O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Emisha Gormley]

Isn't that you at Wall Street? Were you at WSJ?

[Christina O'Neill]

I was at Harper's Bazaar that night.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

You were at Harper's.

[Christina O'Neill]

I remember that. Yeah. So I did a decade at Bazaar, which is where Laura and I later overlapped, and then a decade at WSJ.

[Emisha Gormley]

And what was it like? Kind of reimagining InStyle, because that is what everyone knew. You made such a legacy brand per. Not that it was a modern, but you made it modern.

[Unidentified Female Guest]

You made it kick.

[Emisha Gormley]

You switched it, and you made it cool.

[Laura Brown]

Oh, thank you. No, it was a very, you know, it was a huge magazine. Very stately, very. You know, I'd been going for a long time, very Hollywood. And like, all things. And especially coming into it, it was 2016 when I arrived and Trump was elected. And then we ended up through Covid and BLM and all of these things that we just had to reflect the culture and who was really shaping that. It wouldn't be enough to just have a celebrity's closet tour, you know, it's in your bag. Exactly. I mean, I love a rifle through a bag, but you know what I mean? And there just was. There was. And we also felt like a certain responsibility over that time because people were very isolated. There was so much going on. So, yeah, I just. I just took a really big, big swing. You know, I was like. And we went through three owners there. Yeah. And we were like, let's. We did crazy stuff. We put Dr. Fauci on a cover. We did really mad things. Joe Biden. Joe Biden and Obama. And. And I feel like I left nothing on the field there. You know, it was. And we had all these different owners of the magazine, and they sort of let me go, you know, until they didn't. But it was really. If you have a platform like this, and I say that to the diminishing folks who still do in magazines, I say, you better take a swing. Because if you're just sitting there, like, safe, just trying to keep your advertisers and keep yourself above water, you're gonna die. You're dead in the water. I'm very proud of the fact that I didn't leave anything on the table there.

[Emisha Gormley]

Christina, what about you? I mean, I know Harper's Bazaar.

[Molly Sims]

How many years? 10.

[Christina O'Neill]

Yeah, I said 10. I was actually there for 12.

[Emisha Gormley]

12.

[Christina O'Neill]

12 years. So I started there in the year 2000. I left in October 2012, started at the Wall Street Journal and stayed there until April 2023.

[Emisha Gormley]

And again with the Wall Street Journal. The Wall Street Journal was not cool.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Was not what you expected, a fashion publication, but you did. You made it.

[Christina O'Neill]

Like, I thought it was the freedom. Right. It was so such a blanket slate. And, you know, we had the luxury of being wrapped in this incredibly sophisticated news organization. So the audience was there, and we knew that the, you know, eyeballs and the interest were there. And certainly the sort of, like, purchasing power of that audience was, you know, I don't think there's anything like it in the world. But, you know, coming in, we were able to take those swings because there was no expectation.

[Emisha Gormley]

Yeah, I love that, you know, because there was no. We talked to our kids. I'm like, you have to make mistakes, because if you don't swing the bat, if you don't keep swinging, you're never gonna know. And I love that. I think it's a different time now. I think it's what you said. You can't make mistakes. You can make mistakes, but if you don't, you're kind of gonna sink.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Laura Brown]

It's like, you know, it's. It's a bigger conversation in a way, because I think that what we had. We ran platforms that we were the bosses of, but involved a whole bunch for people. I think you guys are proof of this. The platform can be the individual now.

[Unidentified Female Guest]

You know what I mean?

[Laura Brown]

So this is yours. And somebody can create their own thing on their own now, which is thrilling, vulnerable, all of those things at the same time, because you own it, but you're also really, really exposed. So the risks are often higher, but the rewards are greater, as, you know. So the media landscape has changed so, so much, even in the three and a half years since, you know, we got.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

So let's talk about that, because I.

[Laura Brown]

Think that's, you know, it's too sensitive. We didn't discuss it.

[Emisha Gormley]

But first, take us back to that moment. You're at the top of your game. You are two of the chicest women I've met ever. I've followed your careers for 20 plus years, as has Emesha. What was that moment?

[Laura Brown]

I don't want to brag, but I was fired first. Myself and my whole team, which they characterize as the InStyle print team, were let go in February 2022. Just on a zoom. One day.

[Emisha Gormley]

On a zoom.

[Laura Brown]

On a zoom.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Yeah.

[Laura Brown]

Because we weren't back in the office yet because. Which I was glad of because I just.

[Emisha Gormley]

No heads up?

[Laura Brown]

No, I had 20 minutes. No, I had a little bit of notice from my immediate boss, who was a lovely lady, and she called me up, and actually, my husband made a joke because he liked to turn and be like, oh, Liz, this can't be good. And then she's on the phone with an HR professional. There's always an HR professional. And so she gives me the news, and I was like. And I literally got fired at my dining table, where I was doing my Zooms. And yeah. So 20 minutes later, my whole team was called for an all hands meeting, which I always joke, sounds like Kumbaya, but you're always getting fired. Yeah.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Oh, my God.

[Laura Brown]

Just getting canned in all hands. And so we all got the script and we all got canned. And then very quickly, you wouldn't look at this woman and go, this is a statesman. I tried to be. And I got everyone back on this particular zoom link. I said, come back right away. And I said to the team, which in a weird way became a lot of the spine of this book, which was from my babies to people who'd been there for 20 years. I said, your work is yours. What you've learned is yours. You take this with you. Don't give it up to them. Don't give them the power over you. Da, da, da.

[Unidentified Female Guest]

Own it.

[Emisha Gormley]

And what you've accomplished is yours.

[Laura Brown]

And what you've accomplished is yours. It's not the company's. It doesn't go. And that's really the premise of what we went on to write later. So, yeah, that was three and a half years ago. And then 14 months after me, I got.

[Christina O'Neill]

Yes. So the context that the Journal was we had a new editor in chief of the newspaper and she had started earlier in the year. Her first official day, I think, was February 1st or so. And, you know, February went by and March went by. And I had been trying to get time with her, but there was so much, you know, global sort of like geopolitical things happening with the colleague who had been detained in Russia. You know, there was like an earthquake. It was like everything. The Journal is a, you know, like I said, a sort of like very complex organization. So I was sort of like down in my corner thinking, oh, well, you know, I'm just gonna keep doing a good job.

[Laura Brown]

Because as we all know, when people.

[Emisha Gormley]

Bring in new regimes, new money comes in, new heads come in. A lot of times they want their people. It is what it is. My husband will always say, if you are at a job long enough, yeah, you will get fired.

[Molly Sims]

You will get fired.

[Unidentified Female Guest]

Yeah.

[Christina O'Neill]

So. But time kept going by. So then I started to almost have the reverse psychology where I was like, oh, maybe I'm safe, right? Because nothing had happen. And then at the end of April, we finally had time together and the meeting changed from her office. About 10 minutes before the meeting changed from her office to the HR office.

[Emisha Gormley]

You always know when it's HR is going to be on the call or the Zoom as well.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Do you Remember when I got fired?

[Emisha Gormley]

Yes, I got fired.

[Unidentified Female Guest]

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[Molly Sims]

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[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

About you guys a being brave enough to tell the story because I think a lot of people you're there's shame, right initially of being let go, whether.

[Emisha Gormley]

It'S framed in their shock, all of it. But it is.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

It's like embarrassing. I was embarrassed to tell my I didn't tell my parents. It was right before Christmas. I didn't want them to worry. So I was too scared to tell my parents. And I think that the one thing I look back on in hindsight and I think you guys will agree is it was the best thing that happened to me.

[Laura Brown]

Yeah, if someone tells you that at the time that you want to punch them.

[Unidentified Female Guest]

Smart.

[Unidentified Female Host or Producer]

Don't worry.

[Christina O'Neill]

Shut up.

[Emisha Gormley]

You're gonna learn from this. You're like, okay, I'm gonna choke you.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

And I had just turned down a job. I had just turned down a job the week before, and I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna stay here. And I ended up going to that job that ended up being dvf, and it ended up being the favorite part, my most favorite part of my career. And it was true.

[Emisha Gormley]

To work with Paula Sutter.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

I had the best like. And I was with Diane every day.

[Laura Brown]

Cut back to hr. This is important.

[Christina O'Neill]

I texted Laura from underneath the table because I had the same. Like, this is happening. I'm in shock. Do I need a lawyer? What do I. Not about the situation. And Laura ended up being that resource for me. And thank God. But it was really me trying to immediately process all of these things while they're pushing a packet of paper at me.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

They're like, sign this. Sign this.

[Laura Brown]

And you're like a beetle on its back, and you're like, what do I do?

[Molly Sims]

It's kind of gross.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

I hate to say that. I know it's legal and everybody's protecting themselves, but when you kick someone on the ground and then you're like, sign this.

[Laura Brown]

So many. There's so many.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Especially when you're young. I was young.

[Laura Brown]

I was less than, like, the HR folks defense, like, it's like, you've got to be unimpeachable. Like, you've got to. You've got to get all that signed off. But one of the things that, you know and what we found, I'm sure with you too, especially with, like, a threat of having to be out of the country. There's so many things you don't know, so you have to find out so fast.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Yeah.

[Laura Brown]

And you like Googling a lawyer asking someone to do this. I was, like, trying to get through the healthcare.gov site to, like, work out what was going on. So all of this, you know, when. When. When Christina got canned, I had some knowledge, you know, for sure. But it did. It hit us, you know, that maybe we. We accrued some knowledge and maybe some other folks could actually benefit from it, because it's amazing.

[Christina O'Neill]

You learn the genesis for the book.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Yeah, well, I think. And that's. I mean, unfortunately, people are getting let go more and more now. I think there's a lot going on.

[Laura Brown]

This week, last week, again.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

But I think that it's to view it as an opportunity, which is Crazy.

[Laura Brown]

Which one?

[Emisha Gormley]

This week?

[Laura Brown]

This week in media, in New York, last week, Amazon, Everything. You know, it's like, no, it's absolute epidemic now of job loss. And so to be as prepared as you possibly can and to take it on the chin and be able to move on, that's what we sort of did. But we want everyone to be able to be. Be more armed.

[Emisha Gormley]

How long did it take you to be like, swallow really hard, I'm gonna pick myself back up.

[Unidentified Female Guest]

Like, was it days?

[Emisha Gormley]

Was it months? Was it a year? What did that look like?

[Christina O'Neill]

Probably a year.

[Unidentified Female Guest]

Yeah.

[Christina O'Neill]

Yeah. It was not days, I think, you know, I. I was in shock. I was completely blindsided. And because I think I was one of one. You know, there was. There wasn't that kind of like, oh, there's some force larger than. Than me. You know, when I think when they made the decision to close InStyle Prince, there's 35 of us, 35 people. You know, when they're closing down, that.

[Emisha Gormley]

Wasn'T a singular decision. It was a decision we're shutting down.

[Christina O'Neill]

Right?

[Laura Brown]

We're shutting down a part of this organization.

[Christina O'Neill]

You know, So I think when things close or when a show ends, you know, when there's circumstantial, you know, forces that are bigger than you, this actually felt like someone sat and they were like, okay, let's get. Let's get to her now. Like, she's, you know, she's gotta go.

[Laura Brown]

When we. Christina got, you know, let go, and we met for this drink, you know, just a week or so later. And on the way down to the drink, I said, we're gonna take this Instagram picture of ourselves and look really cute and say, and caption, all the cool girls get fired because we knew what our worth was and we knew we were good at what we did. And this just happened to us. And we were like, we were quite stubborn about it, you know, and then we were putting ego into it.

[Emisha Gormley]

There's no power in owning it.

[Laura Brown]

Exactly. There's sort of a seminal moment. In a weird way, it sounds like self own, but actually in a good way. Like, this is. We're owning our abilities and our experience. What you will stand for, what you won't anymore, what you'll, you know, and what you'll keep quiet and what you'll announce. Like, it's just.

[Unidentified Female Guest]

That's.

[Laura Brown]

That's all what you. You earn through.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

What advice would you guys give to.

[Molly Sims]

Cause.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Anyone that's listening that's either going, maybe not just fired, but having something really hard.

[Emisha Gormley]

What does the comeback look.

[Unidentified Female Guest]

Look like.

[Christina O'Neill]

Yeah, I mean, I gave myself time. Like, I. I was. You know, I mean, we say in the book, obviously, how much time you can take depends on your financial situation. And, you know, I was very conscious of not, like, beating myself up about it because I. While I couldn't explain it, I was clearly singled out at the same time, to the point of, you know, a new regime wanting to bring, you know, their people make sort of structural changes to the organization. You know, like, my boss brain can rationalize that, like, I could sit there and be like.

[Emisha Gormley]

And sometimes that truly is what it is.

[Laura Brown]

Oh, yeah, they want to cut a salary. Yeah.

[Christina O'Neill]

I mean, they don't tell you that you're getting fired because you're too expensive. We are talking about, you know, that's all my friends said. Um, I was. I would love to be too expensive, unfortunately, but I think I had to. You know, I was the one who sort of, like, lost the job I went to every single day and the office and the routine.

[Emisha Gormley]

Was that hard for your identity?

[Christina O'Neill]

Oh, yeah. I mean, my job was really. I was wrapped in it. But I think, to Laura's point, knowing that I was really good at my job. And when you do get fired, you get this sort of, like, public display of, you know, people can get outraged. For you, there was a lot of lovely.

[Emisha Gormley]

Your LinkedIn was alive.

[Laura Brown]

We call it, like. It's like reading beautiful eulogies about yourself, but you're still alive. You're like, oh, my God, I am terrific. Oh, my God, I am so gifted. Thank you so much, Denise. You know, no, all of that is.

[Christina O'Neill]

So that's what happens when it's public. Right? Like, people can comment, rally around you.

[Molly Sims]

Yeah.

[Laura Brown]

And I would say, just to answer that earlier question of what are the early things to do is be honest. Because the minute it already sucks, the minute you start to spin or obfuscate or lie, you are just delaying your recovery, you know? And for what? Because of some idea or because of.

[Christina O'Neill]

There are so many people in media who lie about it. Oh, I mean, at least maybe now when it is and it's an epidemic, like Laura said. But in our era, people would leave under mysterious circumstances.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

What came next?

[Laura Brown]

What came next was the response to that Instagram was so overwhelming. That particular night, which I always like to, like, qualify, we decided to do while sober. And, you know, and it was just. It's just this sort of this deluge of women, you know, just going, oh, my God, wow. He said, oh, wow. Legends. Or actually, that was me too. Or how this, how that. And it just kept going and kept going and kept going. And so the next morning, Christina called me and had enough presence of mind then to be like, you know, I think there's a lot of layoffs happening even then, which was two and a half years ago. People could probably do this information. And so that's when, you know, that's when the idea of the book was born, literally from that post.

[Emisha Gormley]

Real life logistics. You get fired, you don't have a visa, you don't have insurance. You might be living above your means.

[Christina O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Emisha Gormley]

You kind of give women a checklist on what to do and how to navigate that for you both. You're married, you have a family.

[Christina O'Neill]

Well, money was.

[Laura Brown]

And not having it.

[Christina O'Neill]

Health care, like, those, I think were our biggest concerns right out of the gate. You know, not even getting to this sort of like, reputational and like, rebuild phase. Like, it was. The immediate concern I had was, oh, shit, my entire family's on my healthcare. You know, how am I gonna. You know, what's the stopgap? Navigating the COBRA website literally moved us to tears.

[Molly Sims]

You wanna.

[Laura Brown]

You end up in.

[Christina O'Neill]

We're able to learn about it now.

[Laura Brown]

Yeah. No, it is very. No, I think you've got to face, like, we literally sort of put the chapters in the book in the order of panic. It's like terror alert, you know, it's like money, you know, health insurance. You've got to get down to brass tacks. But also, again, the honesty is really, really helpful with your friends and family. And be like, I can't go out to that dinner this week. I don't have the money.

[Christina O'Neill]

I can't go on vacation.

[Laura Brown]

All that, like, be upfront because it happens in cycles with everyone.

[Emisha Gormley]

And you still want to try to pretend like you're carrying on.

[Molly Sims]

Yeah.

[Laura Brown]

Yes. But not to in a way that you're disadvantaging yourself because you're trying to like, be like the duck on the pond, you know, with the legs going.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Yeah.

[Laura Brown]

But you know, also just things like we had some great advice, like one of our experts saying when you go to the supermarket, like, bring cash. Like, don't. Cause we're.

[Unidentified Female Host or Producer]

Bip, bip, bip, bip, bip.

[Laura Brown]

And Suddenly, you know, 200 bucks is gone on cashews. And, you know, being. Just being Whole Foods whole paycheck. These moments.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Yeah.

[Laura Brown]

Of like being acutely aware of your spending. There's actually. There's pride in that. And there's like. And there's this small incremental things. When you felt your power's been taken away, you get power from managing these smaller things, getting some money off your cable bill, like, whatever, oh, look what I did today. Look who I managed. My life. And reminding yourself of your own competence is really the best way to kind of stand up and knowing where you.

[Emisha Gormley]

Want to spend the money and save the money. When we talk about this all the time because we love fashion and we love bags and we love shoes, but at the same time, I remember my mom saying, she was always really. She's like, I know you love these things and you've always wanted these things, but just remember, they will get old.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

And they will become last year's news.

[Emisha Gormley]

Last year's news. And she was always like on me about saving and on me about, like, investing in something in real estate. And honestly, it served me so well just to become conscious. And I think we all get caught up on that. I think when you get fired, it's really like, oh, boy, let's go.

[Christina O'Neill]

Yeah, it's do or die time, right? And there's great investing advice in the book from, you know, we talk to a whole like, you know, ream of experts who.

[Emisha Gormley]

How was that? Was it so fun to be able to go to school and dive into Katie Couric and Oprah Winfrey?

[Laura Brown]

No, it was, it's the great, you know, we deliberately chose sort of very well known, highly successful women because two things, it doesn't matter. Get. We well know that having more money than less money makes life a bit easier, you know, and gives you more time. But the feeling when you get fired is the same shared by everyone. Like, shit.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Right?

[Laura Brown]

So, and then, so. And the women were also chosen because, yes, they were in a situation where our girl is or where we were on the couch going, what's gonna happen to me? What's gonna happen to me? But also their success from this baseline serves to fire up your dreams a little bit too, you know, and so that was really important to us. But no, every single woman that we spoke to had an incredibly distinct, almost muscle memory of the day they got fired and what people said, what Oprah remembers. The, the, the beverage drinking, you know, who fired, fired her was fanta. Well, it's really funny. It's also like in like, you know, Instagram, you remember, you remember the bad comment, not the good ones. You know, you remember those, those bad things. And women at the height of their power, your Oprah, all of, all of these women just getting sort of. What's the word? Right away I made up a word re. Angry, but, you know, all over again. And taking themselves back to that place. But we structured each of those stories into what happened, what next, and what I learned. So very, very distinct. Like, here's the situation. Here's how I started to pick myself up, and here I am now. And they're really, really worthwhile. Cause there's something to be gained from all of them in all different circumstances. From activism to finance, to news. Yeah. To news. And to fashion. You know. You know, the Missoni. So. And I think also what we love.

[Emisha Gormley]

About the book, too, is that, truly, people get fired.

[Christina O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Yeah.

[Laura Brown]

Every single day.

[Christina O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Laura Brown]

It's what you said in every single way.

[Christina O'Neill]

It doesn't matter if you're the coolest.

[Molly Sims]

Girl on the block.

[Christina O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Literally.

[Unidentified Female Host or Producer]

Yeah.

[Christina O'Neill]

And it looks different. I mean, I think that was also for us to. Excuse me. To include this array of experiences. Whether it's your contract not being renewed, whether you're an agent and a client fires you, but not the agency that you work for or the Missonis who took investors, who pushed them out. I mean, it's like everything looked. Every story was really nuanced and really different. I mean, when we talked to several actors, those were the ones where you're like, your heart just breaks because there is no, like, 35 people on the zoom with you. Like, they are firing you.

[Laura Brown]

So we were saying to you the other day when it was an actor friend, and you said, they're firing you. And they went, okay, thanks.

[Emisha Gormley]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

This week on Lipstick on the Rim, we sat down with the one and only Rachel Zo.

[Emisha Gormley]

And wow, this episode is a ride.

[Molly Sims]

We talked about everything.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Motherhood, divorce, finding herself again, joining Real Housewives literally overnight.

[Emisha Gormley]

And then she said this.

[Rachel Zoe]

Can I tell you a true story in Covid? In the darkness of COVID.

[Molly Sims]

I had.

[Rachel Zoe]

A cat eye every single day where nobody saw me. Not one soul. And when I had Covid, not even my ex husband saw me or my children. And you know what I did? I went into my bathroom. I did a black liquid liner, put on lashes, black liner in the waterline, a full lip, did my hair, and sat in my bed. And that is what I did. And I looked at myself and I said, you are not a well person. I said, are you fucking okay? You have 104 fever.

[Christina O'Neill]

You are like.

[Rachel Zoe]

You are like contagion right now.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

If you love fashion, beauty, or Bravo, this Rachel Zoe episode is a must. It's out.

[Molly Sims]

Now.

[Emisha Gormley]

We're gonna ask you a couple questions, and you can answer with the first thing that comes to mind. No overthinking. What was your first big fashion splurge and do you still love it?

[Laura Brown]

This is. I'm going to start weeping. It was a Miu Miu maroon mesh handbag. Patent also had a lot going on. But it always does, doesn't it? And I loved it. This was like 1997 and it was stolen from me in a pub in Sydney and I was devastated. So I don't. I would still love it if I had it.

[Emisha Gormley]

What about you?

[Christina O'Neill]

Chanel bag.

[Emisha Gormley]

All right.

[Molly Sims]

I actually.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

I'm going to ask this question because we share beauty product. Love your favorite beauty product that makes you feel instantly pulled together.

[Christina O'Neill]

Mascara.

[Unidentified Female Guest]

Mm.

[Laura Brown]

Eyebrow pencil. I gotta make this up first.

[Emisha Gormley]

You don't want to see.

[Laura Brown]

You don't want to see what's under here. I'm so naturally blonde. Thank you, Molly. Yes.

[Emisha Gormley]

Yes, I am most memorable or mortifying on the job moment.

[Laura Brown]

When I worked at Harper's Bazaar, I was going to interview Karl Lagerfeld for this little video show I had. And I was terrified because he was not like some parts of the fashion industry, not dumb. And I remember I was in Paris and I was in the back of the car and I was like. And the driver was like, Ms. Brown, are you in stress? And I was like, yes, I'm in stress. And I went to meet Carl and immediately we got sized each other up and then was just like it was on. It was. I don't know if it was German, Aussie thing or whatever it was. And it was like, bang, bang, bang, bang. Do you want to come to my bathroom and see my hair powder? Like it was. Now I'm like, I look ridiculous because I'm so like off that one.

[Emisha Gormley]

It was an incredible interview. I don't know how I saw it.

[Laura Brown]

But I did see it and I.

[Emisha Gormley]

Just was like, interview very much at that time.

[Laura Brown]

No, I mean, like it scaled Everest.

[Unidentified Female Guest]

You know what I mean?

[Laura Brown]

And you're like, oh, I've got this. And so we became very friendly after that and it was a really precious moment in Richmond.

[Christina O'Neill]

Well, continuing on the Carl thread, he's.

[Laura Brown]

Going to Carl it up.

[Christina O'Neill]

I did the first ever interview with Shupet the cat. That's right.

[Emisha Gormley]

No, you did not.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Oh, my God.

[Unidentified Female Guest]

Oh, my God. Remember, she's amazing.

[Laura Brown]

She's so.

[Christina O'Neill]

That's how talented I am. No, he filled out. We did this like ridiculous Q and A. And he like, he was obsessed with. He was like the voice of Schupet. So I was interviewing Carl, but he was channeling. He was like. He really thought he was like the medium of Schupet's answers. So we had a lot of fun.

[Emisha Gormley]

With that item in your closet you'll never part with.

[Christina O'Neill]

Oh, God, I'm so predictable. Chanel jacket. My God.

[Laura Brown]

You know, I do. I have one that he gave me once, and it's unbelievable. It's like the Taj Mahal. It's just like. It's got all these pearls hanging off it. I don't. I think you've seen it once. It's burgundy, and it's got. It is. It's just shoved into my too small closet in my New York apartment next to my Valentino wedding.

[Christina O'Neill]

Something we need to wear on the book tour.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Who's your.

[Laura Brown]

Hi, girls. Get fired and just wear this Chanel jacket. You know?

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Who's your ultimate style icon?

[Christina O'Neill]

Sophia Coppola. Hang on.

[Laura Brown]

I have one there. I forgot who what mine was.

[Christina O'Neill]

I feel like you're gonna see Jane Birkin. Someone jeans, someone denimy.

[Laura Brown]

Someone deny. Yeah, I would say probably a. A not like I do. I. I wish I was her. I would never. I can't dress like her, but I love Tilda Swinton because she's just like a knife.

[Christina O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Emisha Gormley]

You know, she wears it so.

[Laura Brown]

And Blanche. Blanche, love. Blanche kills.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Yeah, she does.

[Emisha Gormley]

Favorite designer right now.

[Christina O'Neill]

Yeah. I mean, I wear a lot of toteme. I wear Saint Laurent. I wear Chanel, a little bit of Prada.

[Laura Brown]

I love Dries Van Noten. But I am a big, big fan of Daniella Colmeier, New York designer who I met when myself and Iman judged on a fashion reality show about 14 years ago. And she started her own business herself, no backers, nothing. And was just last week nominated for designer of the year at the cfda.

[Christina O'Neill]

I gotta add the row.

[Laura Brown]

The most banger, banger, banger, banger. Sharp suits. Like, she's so, so good. I don't know. A New York girl.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Yeah, she's got beautiful stuff and she's cool.

[Emisha Gormley]

Desert island beauty product.

[Laura Brown]

Probably vintners the Tata Harper cleanser. That smells real good. Yeah. What's it called again?

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

The regenerating.

[Laura Brown]

Yeah, I'm regenerated every time.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

What's your favorite fragrance?

[Laura Brown]

Fragrance Mama Juju by Varro.

[Emisha Gormley]

What's one piece of advice you'd give to any woman going through her own reinvention?

[Christina O'Neill]

I mean, give it time, own it. Like, speak up, tell people that you're going through it. You know, I think that has helped us enormously. Just being honest.

[Molly Sims]

Yeah.

[Emisha Gormley]

I think what we're kind of alluding to before.

[Unidentified Female Guest]

It's.

[Emisha Gormley]

People weren't honest because they were so shamed. They were so. Oh my God. I'm the only. You know, it's happening to me. I think that is the difference. I think that's what you guys with this book will make a difference because you're like, fuck it, change the narrative.

[Unidentified Female Guest]

Let's go. Right?

[Emisha Gormley]

Change it.

[Laura Brown]

Let's go.

[Emisha Gormley]

Let's reinvent. But at the same time, it sucks.

[Christina O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Laura Brown]

Doesn't suck forever. It takes time and then it will be glorious. We promise. There's not one woman who we've heard from. We've heard from a whole bunch who's come through this. You know, of course women are closer to it.

[Emisha Gormley]

Like, like totally.

[Laura Brown]

There's not one who hasn't said. Yep.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

I mean, listen myself, I. It was the best thing that ever happened to me. It felt like the worst, but it was the best.

[Emisha Gormley]

Always ask every guest before they go. If you could give advice to your 10 year old self, what it would, what would it be? Let's start with you, Laura.

[Laura Brown]

Calm down. Also to my 45 year old self and my 50 year old self. No. Calm down.

[Christina O'Neill]

Oh, it's going to be okay. It all works out in the end.

[Unidentified Female Guest]

And it does.

[Christina O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Emisha Gormley]

I really believe that you guys are amazing.

[Laura Brown]

On the highway.

[Emisha Gormley]

Listen, all the cool Girls Get Fired. How to let go of being let go and come back on top. Laura Brown, Christina o', Neal, you guys are amazing.

[Molly Sims]

Love you.

[Emisha Gormley]

Make sure and follow on Instagram the book all the Cool Girls get fired and Aura Brown 99 and Ristinail. O n E I L L You guys, your style, your fashion, your humor.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

The ultimate cool girls.

[Emisha Gormley]

But you are the ultimate cool girls.

[Laura Brown]

We've been up for 20 hours, but thank you so much.

[Christina O'Neill]

And you look great.

[Unidentified Female Guest]

And you look.

[Molly Sims]

And we're so happy.

[Laura Brown]

Thanks for blasting our listeners.

[Emisha Gormley]

Whatever you've done are so excited for you. They really wanted this episode. And I was so. We were so happy to be able to sit down with you. They were on a complete book tour.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

I may have accosted Laura at the party and I'm like, you need to.

[Christina O'Neill]

Be on the podcast.

[Laura Brown]

Hi, Sims. No, I saw you in the comments. Yes. Like when we announced and I did send it to our publisher because you were like, we need you on lipstick. And I was like, there's a woman that gets what she wants.

[Emisha Gormley]

You know, I've known you forever. I haven't gotten the privilege of knowing you over the years as much. But I. I was like. And I remember the story, and I remember being like, how the. Did they fire Laura Brown and Christina o'?

[Molly Sims]

Neal?

[Emisha Gormley]

Right. Like, just something that you know. And then to turn this into what it is and to be so. I think not. Listen, again, I'm not saying it. You didn't go.

[Molly Sims]

We.

[Emisha Gormley]

We talk about going deep, dark, but just to come out of it and give women and men and, you know, even your college kids. This is a great book.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

I think we live in a society where failure feel like we protect our kids. And I was having this conversation literally the other day. We try to protect our kids from any hurt. God forbid they hear the word no. Like, there is a generation of that out there right now.

[Emisha Gormley]

And it's back.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

It's like, this is actually a wonderful tool to give. I have three girls. I'm gonna give it to them when the time comes.

[Laura Brown]

We've had a ton of moms and daughters.

[Molly Sims]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

I think it's so important. Like, they need to understand that they're going to get rejected, whether it's you're.

[Emisha Gormley]

Going to make or a girl or.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

A friend or whomever, and things aren't gonna work out.

[Laura Brown]

And it's okay. It's all right.

[Christina O'Neill]

And that's why, speaking to these women who are in the book, we don't have that many role models that are publicly out there being like, hey, I got fired. I've been through it. It sucked. But I came out, you know, better, stronger, smarter, harder, working harder, all those things. And so I think that's also, like, there's so many lessons in the fact that an Oprah had to set back like this. And look at what she did with it.

[Emisha Gormley]

Look at what she did with it. And I think also sometimes we don't even know. Like, maybe you would have never left. Imagine you'd be there for that.

[Molly Sims]

Scary part of. That's the scary part.

[Emisha Gormley]

Like, sometimes you're like, oh, my God, I would have gone.

[Laura Brown]

Sometimes you have to be shocked into a new life.

[Emisha Gormley]

Shocked into a new life, a new position, and just a new way of. Like, you were saying, like, like, yeah. You've now gotten to speak to how many amazing women and see their journey. I'm like, okay, I could do that.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

Or, yeah, I'm going to be okay.

[Emisha Gormley]

I'm going to be okay.

[Laura Brown]

Girls, LinkedIn's on fire right now. I feel the messages dropping. Thank you so much.

[Emisha Gormley]

Thank you guys.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

So early.

[Emisha Gormley]

We.

[Unidentified Female Host or Guest]

For not sleeping.

[Emisha Gormley]

Yeah, for not sleeping. We don't need it.

[Laura Brown]

We're too cool for sleep. Yeah. Cool girl, but thank you so much.

[Emisha Gormley]

And we will see you guys next week.

[Unidentified Female Host or Producer]

Thanks for listening to Lipstick on the Rim with Molly Sims and my Ride or Die Emisha Gormley. We are so excited to bring you guys along on this journey with us. You can find us on Instagram and TikTok at Lipstick on the Rim and Molly B. Sims. Or you can go to my blog where you can dive just a little bit deeper into my favorite products, trends and more at mollysims. Substack.

[Emisha Gormley]

Com.

[Unidentified Female Host or Producer]

And don't forget to check out our video episodes on my YouTube channel, Molly Sims. This podcast is production with Sony Music. I wanted to give a special thanks to my team, Rosie Cummings, Ken Orion, Sophie Kevorkian and everyone at Sony Music. Don't forget to listen and follow wherever you get your podcast so you never miss out on the fun.