Live Free with Josh Howerton

Episode: 3 Megachurch Pastors Discuss Charlie Kirk’s Martyrdom & Church Revival
Date: September 17, 2025
Host: Pastor Josh Howerton (Lakepointe Church)
Guests: Pastor Ryan Visconti, Pastor Josh McPherson

Overview

This bonus episode brings together three prominent megachurch pastors—Josh Howerton, Ryan Visconti, and Josh McPherson—to discuss the unprecedented spiritual response in their churches following the assassination of Charlie Kirk. They dive deep into the recent surge of spiritual hunger, the role of pastors in moments of national crisis, what it means to stand for biblical truth in an era of cultural division, and whether using the term "martyr" for Kirk is appropriate. They also respond candidly to criticisms such as being labeled “MAGA church pastors,” wrestle with the costs of bold leadership, and share practical encouragements for shepherding well in seasons of revival and opposition.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Unprecedented Spiritual Response After Charlie Kirk’s Death

• Remarkable Attendance and Salvations
  • All three pastors report Easter-level or higher attendance, with extraordinary numbers indicating commitments to Christ and packed services.
  • Josh McPherson: “Easter level attendance, highest non-Easter event response to salvation in the history of our church... I’ve never experienced the level of spiritual hunger, spiritual questioning and spiritual hurting that we witnessed on Sunday.” (03:00–03:50)
• Testimonies of Impact
  • People who had not attended church in years, or ever, came seeking hope and answers.
  • Ryan Visconti: “We had every chair being used, every overflow... walking a half mile, mile to the building because they had to park so far away... Hundreds, 200 people saved, almost 100 first-time families.” (04:00–05:11)
  • Even visitors left other churches mid-service because their pastor did not mention the event: “That’s not a normal, like, church hopper, consumeristic... That’s just a reflection of people really needed to be ministered to on Sunday.” (05:15–05:56)
• Unified Emotional Response
  • Services saw an unusual mixture of weeping and rejoicing—heightened worship, spontaneous applause, and intense engagement with the gospel.
  • Howerton: “Probably more weeping during the service than I remember in a very long [time], more weeping and more rejoicing. Applause like, let’s go. It was like weeping and charge the battlefield was the vibe at the same time.” (07:10–08:13)

2. Pastoral Reflections: What’s Happening Spiritually?

• A Turning Point for the American Church

  • Pastors who have built churches on biblical truth and cultural clarity “are in a position to catch the wind that’s blowing right now... There is a spiritual awakening, I think, that is happening in people’s hearts.” (09:35–10:22)
  • Explosive interest among young people; universities and organizations connected to Kirk’s work (e.g., Turning Point USA) see massive engagement.
  • Visconti: “It’s going to backfire on the enemy. It’s going to backfire in a big way.” (10:48–10:50)

• Warning Signs in Unresponsive Churches

  • Churches not experiencing this outpouring may need to “address some real problems” of culture, unity, and courage in leadership.
  • Visconti: “If pastors have not done what was necessary to put a flag in the ground and say, we are for life, we are standing against abortion... we are for God’s definition of marriage... then they've had a great week. If not, it's brought things to the surface that were already there—a disunity over truth and what matters most.” (11:14–12:16)

3. On Preaching Boldly Versus Catering to Culture

• Rejecting Fears of ‘Alienating’ People

  • Pastors discuss the temptation to “become all things to all people,” sidestep controversy, or avoid topics that may alienate progressive members.
  • Visconti: “You got to decide. This is just a thing... Every time that [a crisis] happens, it’s like shaking the church... A pastor has to ask: Am I going to rip the bandaid off and just start leading with courage... or am I going to keep doing this for the rest of my ministry career and not reach as many people as I actually could?” (15:31–17:27)
  • Howerton recounts his decision to begin addressing divisive cultural issues—specifically referencing a 2021 sermon critiquing Black Lives Matter’s vision as an example of “ripping the bandaid off.” (17:27–19:45)

• The Need for Clarity

  • If pastors avoid clarity, “the strongest Christians in your church become frustrated and lose confidence in your leadership... Evil people in your church who intend to do harm... will spread their toxicity.” (20:40–21:30)

• Accusations of Catering to Conservatives

  • McPherson: “Why do you think it is that when I open the Bible and preach Bible verses, it aligns with the party you call conservative?... I’m not up in the pulpit using political language... I’m preaching the Bible.” (21:52–23:14)
  • Pastors warn against “watering down” truth for better retention: “Don’t work so hard to have a higher retention in your preaching than Jesus did.” (23:12–23:14)

4. Labels & Accusations: “MAGA Church Pastors”

• Rejecting Manipulative Labels
  • The hosts respond to social media calling them “MAGA church pastors,” asserting that labels are a tactic to dismiss and avoid actual engagement.
  • McPherson: “I just reject labels. I’m just like, what an immature way to have a dialogue. Let’s look at the substance of our life and the substance of our conversation.” (28:03–28:06)
• Engagement with Political Leaders
  • The pastors draw historical and biblical parallels regarding leaders influencing national policy in godly directions.
  • McPherson: “It’s not political to cheer that [the president wishes the nation to come back to God]... It is our job as prophets... to take captive those thoughts and ideas that are not from heaven but are in the public place and gaining momentum.” (28:03–32:28)
  • On Charlie Kirk: “Charlie did that possibly better than any other person I know. He was going into the public square... taking captive every thought that sets itself up against the kingdom of God.” (32:28)

5. Confronting Misinformation and False Witness

• The Importance of Truth
  • The pastors lament the viral spread of “selectively edited, twisted clips” about Charlie Kirk, leading to real feelings based on untrue narratives.
  • Visconti: “One of the Ten Commandments... says, do not bear false witness. To spread and repeat and act as if a false accusation is true is directly breaking one of [God's commands].” (35:40–36:00)
  • Kirk, in person, was described as humble, focused on Jesus, and an evangelist first. (36:10–37:25)

6. Is the Term ‘Martyr’ Appropriate for Charlie Kirk?

• Affirming ‘Martyr’
  • McPherson: “Using the term martyr to describe Charlie Kirk is 100% accurate because that's what he was. He was not shot because of his political views... He was murdered because he was effectively reaching a generation for Jesus Christ.” (40:56–43:18)
  • Howerton, reading Kirk’s final words: “He lived a perfect life. He was crucified, died and rose on the third day. And he is Lord and God overall.” (43:18–43:43)
  • Visconti: “He might be not just a martyr, but perhaps the greatest American martyr in history... Killed by an American trying to reach Americans with truth that is founded in God’s word... It was somebody who was steeped in transgender ideology.” (45:32–46:52)
• The Spiritual Significance of Response
  • McPherson: “If this was just merely a political assassination, there'd be cities burning and parties arguing. But because I believe it was primarily a spiritual warfare attack... what always happens when someone is martyred is increased supernatural Spirit-born hunger for the things of God.” (43:47–44:56)

7. Gospel-Centered Preaching and Addressing Cultural Issues

• Gospel as Center, Not Boundary
  • The hosts discuss whether the gospel should be seen as a doctrinal core (boundary) or applied through all of life (center).
  • McPherson: “The gospel is not a boundary, it’s the center. Meaning the gospel touches all of life—therefore, we not only have the right, but the obligation to show how the gospel touches every part of life...and yes, even politics.” (50:10–52:22)

8. Practical Admonitions for Pastors: Seizing the Spiritual Moment

• What To Do Now
  • Visconti: "There's a unique opportunity, and we're also going to face a unique level of opposition... When the enemy starts to scream and shoot flack your way, that just means you’re over the target. So keep pouring it on.” (52:49–55:13)
  • McPherson: Shares how his fall ministry plans were halted in prayer until the moment of crisis and how God provided a vision for a new sermon series, illustrating openness to divine redirection.
  • “We had threats to us this week online from the same crowd that shot Charlie. I had to run the calculus again: Am I willing to die for Jesus?” (71:45–73:55)

Key Quotes

• “If the Yankees are more bold about the truth than you are, that’s a problem. We should not allow secular institutions like sports teams to be more clear and more bold about what’s right than the church of Jesus Christ.” — Visconti (59:55–60:19)
• “Better to live a short life as a courageous, faithful man than a long life as an unfaithful coward.” — McPherson (73:55–74:08)

9. Should You Leave a Church That Didn’t Address the Assassination?

• Nuanced Approach
  • The pastors caution against absolutist statements like “If your pastor didn't preach on this, leave,” noting the complexity of ministry, problems of legalism or manipulation, and the need for grace in unusual circumstances.
  • Howerton: “I personally would not do the thing of, ‘Man, if your pastor didn’t specifically preach on this thing, leave your church.’ At the very least, he missed an opportunity.” (62:20–62:26)
  • McPherson: “If a pastor was wrestling with whether or not he should address it, and felt like he should, but started running the calculus of what will my board say, what will people say... and because of that, chose to violate his conscience by not saying anything—that is, by definition, cowardice.” (65:08–68:33)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

(Timestamps in MM:SS format)

• On the explosive outpouring in churches:
  “We had every chair being used, every overflow, space was full... We had a line of cars down the street waiting...hundreds, 200 people saved...” — Ryan Visconti (04:00–05:11)

• Why address politics from the pulpit?
  “Why do you think it is that when I open the Bible and preach Bible verses, it aligns with the party you call conservative?... I’m preaching the Bible.” — Josh McPherson (21:52–23:14)

• On labels:
  “Labels are almost always a manipulation tactic... Label and dismiss; that’s what Satan does. If I can label you and dismiss you, I don’t have to actually engage in dialogue.” — Josh Howerton (39:03–39:13)

• What happens if you’re unclear as a pastor:
  “The strongest Christians in your church ... lose confidence in your leadership. Good hearted Christians... become confused. And then there are evil people... who will spread their toxicity.” — Ryan Visconti (20:40–21:30)

• On using the word ‘martyr’:
  “Using the term martyr to describe Charlie Kirk is 100% accurate because that’s what he was. He was murdered because he was effectively reaching a generation for Jesus Christ.” — Josh McPherson (40:56–43:18)

• Read aloud of Kirk’s final words:
  “He lived a perfect life. He was crucified, died and rose on the third day. And he is Lord and God over all.” — Charlie Kirk (read by Josh Howerton) (43:18–43:43)

• Counting the cost of bold leadership:
  “We had threats to us this week online from the same crowd that shot Charlie... I had to run the calculus again. Am I willing to die for Jesus?” — Josh McPherson (71:45–73:55)

• On seizing the moment:
  “If the Yankees are more bold about the truth than you are, that’s a problem. We should not allow secular institutions like sports teams be more clear and more bold about what’s right than the church of Jesus Christ.” — Ryan Visconti (59:55–60:19)

• Calling pastors to courage:
  “Better to live a short life as a courageous, faithful man than a long life as an unfaithful coward.” — Josh McPherson (73:55–74:08)

Important Segment Timestamps

• 02:30–08:13 — Pastors describe explosions in church attendance, conversions, spiritual hunger
• 09:35–12:16 — Reflection on spiritual climate change, why healthy churches witnessed revival
• 15:31–23:14 — Discussion of preaching with courage versus catering to culture
• 27:40–32:28 — Responding to “MAGA church pastor” label and engaging in public theology
• 35:40–37:25 — Addressing misinformation and the Christian duty to bear truthful witness
• 40:56–46:52 — Deep dive: Should Charlie Kirk be called a martyr?
• 50:10–52:22 — Gospel as “center” vs boundary—application to all of life
• 52:49–56:49 — What church leaders should do now; spiritual opposition, practical examples
• 62:20–70:51 — Should you leave a church that remained silent? Nuanced answers and definitions of courage
• 71:45–74:08 — Personal stories on fear, threats, and the resolve to stand for Christ

Conclusion

In a moment of national trauma, the episode calls on pastors and Christian leaders to exercise discernment, courage, and clarity—not to shrink back or sidestep the hard conversations, but to lovingly and boldly apply the gospel to every corner of life. The hosts urge pastors to seize the spiritual opportunities in front of them, address the “elephant in the nation,” and not allow secular culture to demonstrate more courage or conviction than the Church. The legacy and example of Charlie Kirk—evangelist, truth-teller, and what the hosts call a martyr—serve as a challenge for leaders to lead faithfully, whatever the cost.

For full resources and show notes, visit:
https://lakepointe.church/digital/