ALL Christian Denominations EXPLAINED in Under 40 Minutes | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Summary

Podcast Summary: ALL Christian Denominations EXPLAINED in Under 40 Minutes

Podcast: Live Free with Josh Howerton
Host: Lakepointe Church
Episode Date: May 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Pastor Josh Howerton and guests take on the ambitious task of explaining all major Christian denominations in under 40 minutes. The episode’s purpose is twofold: to help listeners understand the essential differences and similarities among Christian traditions, and to address common questions about denominational divisions. Throughout, the discussion balances humor, practical analogies, and accessible theology, drawing clear distinctions between first-, second-, and third-tier doctrinal issues. The group explores why denominations exist and whether their proliferation harms or helps the unity of the Church.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Framework: The “Continents, Nations, States” Analogy

[01:06 – 05:10]

• Christianity can be understood as “continents, nations, and states”:
  • Continent: All true Christians, unified by belief in Jesus as the Christ, Son of the Living God, as expressed in foundational creeds (e.g., Nicene, Apostles’).
  • Nations: The three main Christian branches—Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox—differ on key “first tier” doctrines.
  • States: Subdivisions into denominations, primarily over “second tier” (important but non-salvific) issues.
• Quote:
  • “If you take every single denomination that has ever existed ... there is one thing and one thing only, they will all agree on: that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God.” – Pastor Josh [00:00]
• Groups that differ on the essentials of Christ’s identity (e.g., Mormonism, Islam) are not considered on the “Christian continent.”

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2. Theological Triage: First, Second, and Third Tier Issues

[05:11 – 11:24]

• First Tier: Doctrines essential to salvation (e.g., nature of Christ, authority of Scripture, basics of repentance and faith); disagreement means a "different faith."
• Second Tier: Important issues for church life and fellowship (e.g., baptism mode, church polity); denominations often divided over these.
• Third Tier: Non-essential doctrines (e.g., end times views, age of the earth), where diversity is expected within a single congregation.
• Quote:
  • “First tier issues are where it's more important to be right than to be together … there are some issues worth splitting a church over.” – Josh [05:10]
  • “A second tier issue is something that … we have the same faith, but we probably should be in different churches.” – Paul [11:00]

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3. The Five Key Categories that Define Denominations

[11:45 – 12:49]

• Authority (Who or what governs the church?)
• Salvation (How are we saved? What are the nuances?)
• Sacraments/Ordinances (Baptism, communion: what do they mean and who receives them?)
• Church Government (How is the church run?)
• Distinctive Beliefs/Convictions (Unique characteristics that set denominations apart)

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Denominations Explained Rapid-Fire

4. Baptists

[13:31 – 17:36]

• History: Emerged in 1600s from English Separatists and Puritans, influenced by Anabaptists but distinct.
• Distinctives:
  • Authority: Scripture alone is supreme.
  • Polity: Local church autonomy (congregational governance).
  • Baptism: Believer’s baptism by immersion (no infant baptism).
  • Communion: Typically symbolic, remembering Christ’s work.
  • Worship: “Low church,” informal, sermon-centered.
• Quote:
  • “You ain’t dunking any babies at a Baptist church.” – Josh [15:15]
  • “I heard somebody else say this: There's more evidence for unicorns in the Bible than congregational church polity.” – Josh [16:28]

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5. Episcopalians (Anglicans in the US)

[17:36 – 21:09]

• History: US branch of Anglicanism (Church of England), traces back to English Reformation.
• Distinctives:
  • Authority: Scripture plus tradition and reason.
  • Polity: Governed by bishops (Episcopal = “overseer”).
  • Worship: High liturgy, resembles Catholic services in form but Protestant in theology.
  • Baptism: Infant baptism practiced.
  • Diversity: Some parts affirming (e.g., LGBT inclusion).
• Quote:
  • “The Episcopal Church is literally named after its governance structure. It is overwatched by bishops that oversee groups of churches.” – Josh [18:35]

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6. Anglicans (Church of England)

[21:09 – 22:23]

• Nearly identical in theology and practice to Episcopalians; main distinction is geography and some nuances of hierarchy.
• Quote:
  • “The Anglican Church is based in England. Episcopalian is the American version of that.” – Paul [22:23]

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7. Methodists

[22:23 – 26:54]

• History: Began as a revival movement within Anglicanism, led by John and Charles Wesley in the 1700s.
• Distinctives:
  • Emphasis on structured discipleship ("method").
  • Often appointed clergy (bishop-led).
  • High value on sanctification, sometimes “Christian perfection” (no longer sinning in this life).
  • Arminian theology: strong view of free will.
  • 2024 split: UMC became officially LGBT-affirming; new Methodist denominations formed in response.
• Quote:
  • “They actually believe Christian perfection can be achieved in this [life].” – Paul [24:03]

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8. Pentecostals & Holiness Churches

[27:58 – 35:37]

• History: Emerged from Methodist “Holiness” movement; major catalyst was Azusa Street Revival, early 1900s.
• Distinctives:
  • Authority: Scripture, plus strong emphasis on personal experience of the Holy Spirit.
  • Baptism in the Spirit: Subsequent to conversion, often evidenced by speaking in tongues.
  • Salvation: Usually Arminian (can lose salvation).
  • Governance: Similar to Baptists and non-denoms.
• Global Impact: Fastest-growing segment of global Christianity, especially in Africa, Latin America, Asia.
• Quote:
  • “The modern charismatic church movement is the fastest growing movement in church history.” – Josh [34:46]
  • “It began as an experience in search of a theology.” – Josh [35:27]

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9. Lutherans

[35:37 – 40:05]

• Founder: Martin Luther, 1500s, protesting abuses in the Catholic Church and seeking biblical reform.
• Distinctives:
  • Authority: Scripture alone.
  • Polity: Local governance; cooperative synods.
  • Sacraments: High view; believe in “means of grace”; baptize infants; communion features “real presence.”
  • Worship: Retain much liturgy.
• Quote:
  • “Run, John, run, the law demands, but gives us neither feet nor hands... the gospel brings, it bids us fly and gives us wings.” – John Bunyan, shared by Josh [38:04]
  • “Prophets have an edge.” – Paul [39:49]

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10. Presbyterians

[40:05 – 42:35]

• Founder: John Calvin (Geneva), John Knox (Scotland).
• Distinctives:
  • Polity: Elder-led, with local “presbyteries” providing accountability.
  • Theology: Emphasis on God’s sovereignty and covenant; predestination (“Calvinism”).
  • Sacraments: Infant baptism, “spiritual presence” in communion.
  • Other: Lean toward liturgical, conservative worship.
• Quote:
  • “The two words Presbyterians love the most are sovereignty and covenant.” – Josh [41:53]

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11. Overview: What Makes a Protestant Church?

[42:36 – 44:01]

• If a church isn’t Catholic or Orthodox, it’s Protestant.
• Common ground of Protestants:
  • Five “Solas” (faith alone, grace alone, Christ alone, Scripture alone, glory of God alone).
  • Key marker: “The Bible has more authority than the church.” – Josh [44:01]

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12. Roman Catholicism

[44:35 – 48:07]

• Authority: Scripture and tradition (magisterium); ultimate authority in the Pope (“apostolic succession” from Peter).
• Sacraments: Seven, function as means to maintain saving grace; baptism and communion believed to actually impart grace.
• Distinctive Doctrines: Veneration of Mary and saints; belief in purgatory; transubstantiation in communion.
• Quote:
  • “Roman Catholics would say, yes, we're saved by grace and through faith, but that salvation and that grace must be maintained through works, specifically primarily through the sacraments.” – Paul [47:38]

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13. Eastern Orthodoxy

[48:07 – 49:12]

• History: Split (“Great Schism”) from the Catholic Church ~1000 years ago.
• Distinctions:
  • Disagreement over papal succession.
  • High emphasis on mystery, mystical experience, “theosis” (becoming one with God).
  • Seven sacraments, similar liturgy as Catholicism, but independent national churches.
• Quote:
  • “The Eastern Orthodox Church had a divorce from the Catholics a thousand years ago. … Very high emphasis on mystery.” – Josh [48:07]

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14. Are Denominations a Good or Bad Thing?

[49:14 – 52:28]

• Argument: Denominations allow unity in mission by allowing diversity in strong secondary convictions, much like US state boundaries under a federal system.
• Quote:
  • “Denominations are a way of preserving unity... It gives us the ability to all move towards the same mission … and not be constantly infighting in the churches over how we ought to baptize people.” – Josh [49:21]
• Denominations provide room for conscience, diversity, and practical unity, rather than enforcing artificial sameness (which would only breed authoritarianism).
• Quote:
  • “A lot of different churches can reach a lot of different kinds of people.” – Paul [52:28]

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Notable/Memorable Moments

• Humorous Stereotypes: The segment with Grok/AI-generated stereotypes for denominational leaders (Baptists, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, etc.) served up laughter but also underscored some cultural perceptions.
• Unity in Essentials:
  • “If you take every single denomination that has ever existed ... there is one thing and one thing only they will all agree on: that Jesus was the Christ, the son of the living God.” – Josh [00:00]
• Charismatics – “Experience Seeking Theology”:
  • “It is an experience in search of a theology.” – Josh [35:27], highlighting the unique dynamism and growth in the Pentecostal world.
• Denominational Splits as Healthy:
  • “If yours is being compromised, at some point you may have to leave, you may have to jump ship. … So when we think of Methodists, don't equate Methodism solely with affirming and heretical viewpoints.” – Paul [26:45]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Continents/Nations/States Analogy: [01:06 – 05:10]
• First, Second, Third Tier Issues: [05:11 – 11:24]
• Defining Denominational Categories: [11:45 – 12:49]
• Denominations Rapid-Fire: [13:31 – 48:07]
  • Baptists: [13:31 – 17:36]
  • Episcopalians/Anglicans: [17:36 – 22:23]
  • Methodists: [22:23 – 26:54]
  • Pentecostals: [27:58 – 35:37]
  • Lutherans: [35:37 – 40:05]
  • Presbyterians: [40:05 – 42:36]
  • Catholics & Orthodox: [44:35 – 49:12]
• Are Denominations Good or Bad?: [49:14 – 52:28]

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Conclusion & Final Thoughts

The episode closes by emphasizing the shared foundation of all true Christian denominations (“first importance” – 1 Corinthians 15:3-4), the necessity of boundaries for healthy unity, and the ongoing relevance of denominational distinctives for mission and conscience. The hosts encourage listeners to appreciate both the distinctives and the unity within the wider body of Christ, ending with a prayer for continued gospel faithfulness.

Transcript

[A]

If you take every single denomination that has ever existed, every Christian that's ever existed, there is one thing and one thing only, they will all agree on that Jesus was the Christ, the son of the living God.

[B]

So what I want you guys to do, help me understand every single Christian denomination in the next 20 minutes.

[C]

Easy.

[B]

Well, hey, Live Free Nation. Before we jump into the episode, this podcast is recorded right here at Lake Pointe Church in Dallas, Texas. But the Live Free Nation is spread all over the country and all around the world. So if you've been watching and thinking, man, I wish I could be part of something like this, we want to invite you to take a simple next step, and that is join us for Church Online. Every weekend, we stream our services live on YouTube, Facebook, and our church online platform. And it's more than just watching a service. There are live hosts in the chat, prayer teams ready to stand with you, and people all around the world worshiping together in real time. And so whether you're exploring the faith, coming back to church, or just looking for a place to start, church Online is a great way to jump in and experience what God is doing here at Lake Pointe. We would love to see you in the chat this weekend and now enjoy the podcast.

[A]

All right, dude, this is going to be a blast. We're going to rapid fire this sucker. Let's go. We get this question so frequently now because the listenership of Live Free Nation is so broad. Here's the two questions we get. Man, isn't the existence of so many denominations a horrible thing? And, dude, the church is just so divided. It's so divided, you know? And then the other one is, okay, well, hey, I started listening to POD or whatever. Which. Which one should I go to? Okay, so let me just set this up. And then for real, what we're going to do is we're going to run through every Christian denomination explained, and the goal is 20 minutes, and let's shoot for it. So let me. Let me set this up. Let me. Let me set this up. First of all, we're going to answer at the end. Our denomination is a bad thing. So you bookmark it, make sure we come back there. Our denomination is a bad thing. We're going to answer that later. So here's what I'd say, if you're listening, is you need to understand Christianity in terms of. We're going to use the analogy of continental boundaries, national boundaries, and state boundaries. Continental boundaries, national boundaries, state boundaries. So continental boundaries. What I would say is that's the very broadest is everyone that we could call Christian. And what I would say there is, that includes even the three very broadest categories, Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox. And we're going to talk about this here in a second. Are, I would say, are all on the same continent. Now sometimes it feels like, you know, feels like Canada and the U.S. or who did you say was Mexico?

[B]

I said Catholicism might be Canada, you know, similar to the US but not really. Not really. And then Mexico was Eastern Orthodox.

[C]

I really want to ask why, but

[A]

I don't think we have time, you

[B]

know, like just a little different, but, you know, same, same piece of mass of land or whatever.

[A]

So here's what I'm saying. It's like the very broadest. This is really fun. The very broadest is, hey man, we're all on the same continent. What I would say. And you going, okay, well, hey, why are they all called Christian? Well, here's the delineating factor, okay? They're all called Christian because they all agree on Jesus Christ.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

They're all called Christian because they all agree on Jesus Christ. If you go back to the Nicene Creed and the Apostles Creed, and you mentioned some of the other creed, the

[C]

Chalcedonian Creed, there's many like that you go back to.

[A]

The Nicene Creed is specifically primarily about Christology. So that's why I point that one out. But they all agree Jesus Christ, Son of God, resurrected from the dead, from thence he shall come to judge the living and the dead. There will be a. He will return and judge all those things. So there you go. That's the continents. Now what I want to point out is, hey, guys, there are other continents. And in the same way, when you get in a world war or something like that, hey, man, it's continent against continent. There are some things that are not on this continent. Anybody that does not agree about who Jesus Christ is, I'm going to talk actually from the scriptures about why we put all those on the same continent. Anybody that doesn't agree on that, hey man, we're not on the same continent. So I'll just go ahead and say this. This is the delineation between Christianity and other religions and cults. So Mormonism is not on the same continent. They do not. Dude, people wig out when we say this, but we're going to keep saying it because our job is to tell you the truth. We love you. We're going to tell you the truth. They do not agree. They do not agree with the Nicene Creed. They do not agree in Fact, what Mormons will say is that they are not, quote, creedal Christians. They disagree with, quote, creedal Christianity. Now you really got to pin them down to get them to say that. That's what they say. Why they disagree about who Jesus is. Muslims, not Christian. They disagree about Jesus Christ. Buddhism, not, not Christ. So, so continents. Now, national boundaries is where we might. Let's drill down a little farther. And that's where, okay, now we're dividing between Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox. Those are the three primary. If you want to do nations, national boundaries, we put it right there and we're going to talk about what those are here in a second radical disagreement. And I need to set up a theological category for everybody that's listening. That's going to make, when we run through all the denominations in a second, I make Paul force rank them.

[C]

I love it when we do that.

[A]

When we do that, what you're going to see. Let me give a theological category that you're going to need to make the rest of this podcast make sense. The national boundaries, Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox. Radical disagreement on what theologians have historically called second tier issues and some disagreement about the specifics of what are called first tier issues. Now let me set up the theological triage category and then Paul, I'm going to start rapid firing us and we're going to run through these denominations. Every Christian denomination explained in 20 minutes. Now here's what I mean by first two issues and secondary issues. Theologians have historically. I'm going to do it real fast. Theologians have historically categorized the doct doctrines, the essential beliefs of Christianity into first tier issues, second tier issues, third tier issues. First tier issues are issues where it's more important to be right than to be together. So I'll just say this, man, there are some issues worth splitting a church over. And I will say this. There are some issues worth kicking somebody out of a church over. Yes, these are first tier doctrines. This is all the things germane to salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone with the words properly defined. You can also load the basics and reality of repentance, the necessity of repentance. So it's we're going to theology nerd out here for a second. It's not just issues of orthodoxy, right. Belief. This is also at least the basics of orthopraxy Christian ethics. So for instance, I'm going to. We'll say this in a second. There are entire denominations that we will mention here in a second that have become what theologians call apostate denominations. They used to be on team Jesus, they can no longer be considered on team Jesus. The New Testament would actually use the phrase they now walk as enemies of Christ because, for instance, they became affirming of things like LGBT issues and they. They openly practice gay marriage. They got lesbian, lesbian bishops baptizing cats in Portland. It's that kind of stuff. Okay, well, hey, dude, that's worth dividing. In fact, I'll just say this, and I don't need to mention the guy's name. We have removed, we have kicked church planters out of our church planting organization who they caved on their convictions to first tier issues. And I lost no sleep over it. Do you know what I was losing sleep over when we had not kicked him out. So the first two issues are issues where it's more important to be right than to be together. And you may say, man, Josh, but that's really mean. No, no, here's what's mean. What's mean is allowing someone to continue to preach and teach things that if believed, will send somebody to hell to

[C]

give just even some biblical and theological categories around this. The same Apostle Paul who in first Corinthians said, why do you have divisions in the church? He then said in Galatians that if anyone preaches a different gospel than I am, let them be accursed, even if it's an angel. So can be both. We shouldn't divide over things like pride or preferences, but we can divide when it comes to essential truth that we have to agree on to be able to say that we're on the same continent.

[A]

And this is interesting. You say that. So let's theology nerd out. Even in the same book, bro, in 1 Corinthians 1 and 2, why are there divisions among you? 1 Corinthians 15, what does he say for I delivered to you as of first importance. And then he just gives the basics of the Gospel, that Christ died in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was raised on the third day. So some people will hear the theological triage categories and they'll go, man, that's not in the Bible. Y' all are just making that up arbitrarily. No, we're not. No. Actually, the apostles in the New Testament treated some doctrines. All doctrines are equally true. Not all doctrines are equally important. Yes. Now, secondary issues. Let me do this fast. Secondary issues are issues where it's more important to be together than to be right. But it might be uncomfortable, as you're going to see, when we rifle through the denominations, you get down to things like mode of baptism, like hey, dude, if you're at Lake Point, you know we believe in what. We'll talk about this in a second. We believe in what's called credo baptism. The baptism is a public profession and a symbol of personal saving faith in Jesus Christ. So what that means is, you know, we ain't dunking kids, we ain't sprinkling, we ain't dunking infants. If you believe in what's called. Now, we don't have time to go into it. If you believe in what's called pedobaptism and you're like, hey man, I just had this infant. I want my 3 month old to be christened. Well, dude, I'm real sorry, we don't do that here. If you got a strong belief in that, hey, we're all on team Jesus and you're welcome to stay at Lake Point, but you can't teach the doctrine contrary to our doctrine. And bro, we're never going to baptize your three month old. You might be uncomfortable.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

Third tier issues are issues where it's more important to be together than to be right. And it shouldn't be uncomfortable.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

This is stuff like, hey, dude, it's eschatological views. Are you pre mil, post mill, you know, age of the earth, like, hey man, we compassionate. I got beliefs on that. I'm probably the most conservative you can believe on that stuff.

[B]

Hey, bro, whataburger? In and out. I mean, it's. We're gonna be okay. We're gonna be okay.

[C]

Is that a third tier?

[B]

Fair enough. We can debate that. We can debate that.

[C]

I'm just messing.

[A]

I'm messing up. So. Hey, dude, if you're walking around into life groups and like dividing churches and life group over your eschatological position, you need to get a life.

[C]

Maybe put these in a, in a different, different way. And then I'll. If it'd be good, I maybe need four or five things on that. Second tier shoes that denominations have usually different on that I think will help color the rest of them.

[A]

But you do that and then let's start rifling through the first year.

[C]

A first tier issue is something that if we disagree on, we have a different faith.

[A]

That's good.

[C]

We have a different. Even if we use the same words, we have a different faith. A second tier issue is something that if we disagree on, it would actually probably be good. If we're in different churches or event, we would call a cluster of those churches a different denomination. First tier issue we have a different faith. Second tier issue. We have the same faith, but we probably should be in different churches. A third tier issue is something that we just have different opinions.

[A]

Bro, that's.

[C]

But we can have in the same church.

[A]

That's really good.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You so smart.

[B]

Chips.

[C]

Oh, gosh, I'm getting embarrassed. I'm hurting more red than I usually am.

[A]

Oh, this old thing.

[B]

How does he do it?

[C]

Oh my gosh, stop it.

[A]

He's literally turning red right now. Literally turning red.

[C]

I'm increasing my hue of redness. All right, any.

[A]

Anyways, can we start? Oh, you want.

[C]

Let me get these five things because what I was thinking of to keep this simple because there's so many differences, I think it'd be good for most of the denominations say, hey, here's what they believe on these different things. So usually denominations disagree on and they're arise out of disagreements on authority. Who or what governs the church overall? Who gets to decide what we believe on these first, second and third tier issues? Second thing is salvation. How are we saved? But sometimes it's on the nuances of it is, does baptism save you? Can you lose your salvation? Things like that. Number three is some people call sacraments. Other people would call it ordinances. Those are things like baptism and communion. Number four, church government. How is the church run? And then number five is sometimes there are just distinct beliefs and characteristics or convictions that a group of people hold and it gets kind of awkward if they hold it and all the people that are in the church they belong to don't. And so sometimes they'll form us. Let me go through those five again because they'll be prominent as we're going through the different denominations authority. Who or what governs the church? Salvation. How are we saved? Number three, sacraments and ordinances. Number four, church government. How's the church run? And number five, specific distinct beliefs and characteristics.

[A]

All right, now we want to set the table. Here's what we're going to do. Every Christian denomination, explain. All right, now. Number one. Now what we're going to do is. And I need to preface this. So before the podcast we went into Grok Image generation and I just need to say this with a preface. We put nothing in. We just. All we did is I typed in give me a stereotype of and I put the denomination and we are presenting them without any editing or any comment. If you will be offended by these things, you should not watch the next few minutes.

[C]

Join us on Spotify now.

[A]

Join us on Spotify and we're gonna make fun of ourselves here too. You use Grok, I use Grok.

[B]

Blame Elon Musk. That's it.

[A]

Elon Musk. Yeah, blame Elon Musk. All right, number one, let's do Baptists. Here we go. Baptist. Now let me read his little quote up here. It's a red faced preacher that says, if you ain't saying it, I ain't saying it's a sin, but if your shorts are shorter than your testimony, you're going to hell in a handbasket. And then he's got a sign on his pulpit that says, no dancing, no drinking, no exceptions, except church potlucks.

[B]

And then the sermon title is the Devil Wears Skinny Jeans.

[A]

All right, now, by the way, I'm a third generation Baptist pastor.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah, Second generation.

[A]

Tell us about these guys.

[C]

Yeah. So Baptist, a little bit of context emerged in the 1600s out of what's called the English separatist and Puritan movements. They are influenced by an earlier group called Anabaptists, but also have some big distinctions from them. So let's go through some of those categories I mentioned earlier. So let's actually think through nations. So Baptists belong to a group called Protestants. Let's think of them as us. What unites Protestants is the idea that the ultimate authority is scripture alone. Doesn't mean we can't consult church tradition to get some good ideas of how to interpret it. But ultimately Scripture alone is the authority. Some other things in terms of how Baptists run their local churches is, that's it. It's local church autonomy. So Baptist might belong to an denomination like Southern Baptist or American Baptist or things like that, but each church gets to decide what they specifically believe there and how it is run. Like Southern Baptist can't call Baptist church and say, hey, you can't put that pastor in authority. You can't elect this person. They have local church autonomy in terms of salvation, a strong emphasis on personal faith and conversion. And because of that, and there's a big reason why they're called Baptist, they believe in what's called believers. Bapt.

[A]

You ain't dunking any babies at a Baptist church.

[C]

Exactly. Or credo baptism. So if the emphasis is on personal faith and conversion, if a baby cannot have that personal faith and be converted, you shouldn't baptize a baby. So they would say that you should only baptize people who have already personally placed their faith in Jesus and that you should do it by immersion only.

[A]

There's much more that can be said about this, but we're Doing this in a rapid fire thing.

[C]

Yeah, rapid fire thing.

[A]

What I will point out. So you'll talk and then I'll point out maybe one thing on each. What I will point out is what Paul pointed out earlier. You're going to see a lot of distinctions among, among the denominations based on what's called governance structure. The theological term for that is church polity or ecclesiology. So Baptists believe, and this is, I will say almost every conviction I have is Baptistic, except this one. This is the only one. Baptists historically believe in what's called a congregational ecclesiology, that the highest authority in the church is essentially just mass vote by member. I heard somebody else say this. There's more evidence for unicorns in the Bible than congregational church polity. I. You don't see it like literally anywhere. Now what you're going to see, to Paul's point, and this is going to start to make more sense as we run through these. So local church autonomy. Yeah, big thing as very different from the next one of the next denominations we're going to do. For instance, in an Episcopal denomination, it specifically is run by a governance structure of bishops that are over large groups of churches. Baptists would go, absolutely not. Local church autonomy.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

So there we go.

[C]

One or two more quick things. If you go to a Baptist church, probably going to be what people call is a low church experience, meaning that we'll get into things with others. With high church usually means, like set liturgy, that you read the same thing every week that you always say or always do. Baptist would usually be more of what's called a low church, more informal. Not always the same thing that you're going to say every week. Very sermon centered. And then finally one big thing that I almost left out, but it's actually really important. While this actually has not always been true now, the dominant view of Baptist towards communion is that it is always only symbolic. That's really important to say now because there's other denominations that will massively disagree. They would say that when you take communion, the Lord's Supper, if you've heard it called that before, that you're simply remembering what Christ has done. But that's all that there is to it. Again, that's not always been the view of Baptists, but it's the dominant view now.

[A]

Okay, let's go to the next one. So let's talk. I just want to apologize in advance. This is just what Grog gave us. Let's talk about the apostle, Episcopal, Episcopal denomination. Now a few things I Want to point out here, this is just what God gave us. It's just what God gave us. Now, one thing I want to point out that will lead into the Episcopal Church is in the top right, you have Queen Elizabeth. That's Queen Elizabeth. Because the Episcopal Church came out of the Anglican Church.

[C]

It's really the Episcopal.

[A]

But explain why that's tied to England.

[C]

Oh, yeah, because the Anglican Church was birthed in England.

[A]

The Church of England.

[C]

Yeah, the Church of England.

[A]

So let me just. I'll say one thing first of all, then, Paul, I want you to answer the question. Are the. Is the Episcopal Church officially affirming? Because for some reason, Grok decided to give us a stereotype of a guy waving a rainbow flag.

[B]

Kind of looks like NT Wright a little bit.

[A]

Hey, man, listen, we're not tying those things together. You're gonna get us in trouble.

[C]

And he's Anglican.

[A]

Now, let me point one thing out.

[B]

He's Anglican.

[A]

That's right. You dive into this real quick. So this is a great contrast to Baptists, okay? Especially when it comes to church polity, Baptist local church autonomy. The word Episcopal, it literally comes from a compound Greek word. EPI means over, skopos means watcher. So the Episcopal Church is literally named after its governance structure. It is overwatched by bishops that oversee groups of churches.

[C]

That's exactly right.

[A]

Now you talk and answer the question. They're not officially affirming, are they?

[C]

Actually, parts of them are. Yeah, parts of them are. That's why I did that.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So Episcopalian Anglicanism has a lot of overlays because you said Episcopalianism is basically the American version of Anclinism. Although again, there are. There are some differences. Interesting. Some things in terms of authority for them. They would say they're kind of basically trying to make a middle way, both Anglicans and Episcopalians between Catholicism and Protestantism.

[A]

Yes, big time.

[C]

Very big time in a few ways. First, they would say, hey, Scripture is the ultimate authority, but also we should consult tradition and we should consult reason. So they're kind of trying to have it every which way. Also, where you would see this is if you go to an Episcopalian or an Anglican church service, it actually in many places is going to look and feel like a Catholic service. If it's more of a high church service.

[A]

High church, lots of liturgy. Stand here, kneel here, read this, recite this.

[C]

And so. But what they did is they substituted the theology of Protestant into the language that people recite. So it's kind of basically trying to have Both worlds and the best of both, as you mentioned, it's more bishop oriented. So instead of, for example, at a Baptist church, if you go to Baptist church, you're going to elect your own pastor. Episcopal church or an Anglican church is going to appoint that person for you. They do believe in infant baptism. They do believe in infant baptism. Very big difference between them and Baptist and a few others. But I will say in worship style it can be very Catholic looking, but it can also be very. Look more like an evangelical service or a mixture thereof.

[A]

Yeah, high church evangelicals.

[C]

Yes, exactly. I actually went to a true story for a year out of college before I went on to seminary. I went to an Anglican church. So you did. Of course you did, Paul. But they were not open and affirming. They were very conservative in their theology of ethics. But it was actually, I just, I wanted something different and it was actually a good example. You know, in your continent analogy, it's a little different because they're Protestant as well. It's like, maybe that's a better thing. It's like, man, I love Texas, but it's also good to occasionally visit another state. And I just needed something different.

[B]

What was it? It. What state was it?

[C]

What state was this? Anglican church. Oh, gosh, I don't know. You put me on the spot.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, man. I think Montana, really beautiful, but still kind of conservative.

[A]

I think that's. Let me say one last thing and let's move to the next one because we got a rifle. Rifle fast. What I will say about the Anglicans that honestly I found helpful at times in my. They are huge. They're more big on tradition than Baptists. So for instance, things like the Book of common prayer. 100% that's going to. Stuff like that is going to come from the Anglicans. Super helpful. Great devotional book. All right, let's move to the next one. Here we got Anglican. That last. Oh, that last one was Episcopal. I skipped ahead. So wait, let's do. Yeah, so Anglican. Now we got Anglican. Okay, now wait, do we. Are we doing these right? Is this right? You're good, you're good. Do Anglicans.

[C]

Well, no, no, here's what I'd say is. So here's the difference. Anglican would be another word for the Church of England because this began in England during the reign of Henry viii.

[A]

There was a king that really wanted a divorce. Exact Catholics wouldn't do it.

[C]

Initially, this really was about a political break. Basically he was trying. It is a fact, he was trying to assert his independence from Rome. But later they did begin becoming theologically Protestant under later people. And so there's honestly not a ton of differences in the terms of the practice that I mentioned, just mentioned. The idea is that the Anglican Church is based in England. Episcopalian is the American version of that.

[A]

There you go. Yeah. Often something that feels similar. Let's talk about the Methodists. Here we go. Methodist this, point this out. There's so many things here. This is wonderful. So Paul, tell us about the Methodist.

[C]

Yes, and, and when I say this, we have to, I think, even clarify that we're, we're describing big denominational. I would even call branches out of which different limbs can come. And some of those limbs are healthy and some of those limbs are very unhealthy. And so that's why when we say some of these things, there can be examples of good churches and bad churches. So let's talk about Methodists. Methodists are a good example of denominations being born out of revival. And so this actually started as a renewal movement within Anglicanism.

[A]

That's right.

[C]

In the 1700s. And so you had a group, especially John and Charles Wesley, that emerged out of this and developed. It's called Methodism. The reason they called it Methodism is because they had a very specific and structured method of sanctification, of trying to become more like Jesus.

[A]

That's why I'll just highlight this. That's why they're called Methodists, because John Wesley had a very specific discipleship program that was called a Method Methodists.

[C]

And so they're seeing all these massive conversions at this time. The Church of, of England is kind of stale and dry. It's not happening. So eventually they just break away and kind of do their own thing. Again, I'm kind of simplifying in terms of church government. They're also Episcopal, usually, usually local pastors appointed by bishops, high emphasis on sanctification and holy living. So one distinctive, especially at what's called a holiness church, which is a. Comes out of Methodism as well, is they actually believe Christian perfection can be achieved in this.

[A]

When I was in high school, I read John Wesley's book, the Doctrine of Christian Perfection. I completely disagree with it, but so they, they actually, for listeners, they genuinely have a belief that there is a level of sanctification that a Christian can attain at which they literally no longer sin. Exactly. The doctrine of Christian perfection.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

So it's kind of a big deal for them.

[C]

It's a really big deal is the idea of it can be achieved in this life. So therefore, while Salvation is by grace. You must strive with effort and go by their more structural methods to get there. This is an important one in terms of salvation. Definitely believe we're saved by grace through faith. But they have what's called more of an Arminian theology, which puts a heavy emphasis on the idea of free will. Whereas where we'll get to in a little bit with Presbyterians and Reformed churches, they have an emphasis on what's called predestination. So there's a few distinctive. Anything else you want to hit with this?

[A]

The only thing I'll add here is when John. John Wesley, splint, from what I understand, splintered off, he splintered off from the Anglican Church, isn't that right?

[C]

That's exactly right. Church of England.

[A]

So the reason he did that is there were two things that were primary drivers. Him, by the way, John Wesley. John Wesley was a stud. Now, let me say two things. One, in 2024, the United Methodist Church, which is the. If I understand correctly, is the largest group of Methodist churches in the United States, right.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

In 2024, they officially became an apostate denomination and are now officially affirming. Officially LGBT affirming in the United States. So we would actually. So what's tough is historic Methodists, we would go, man. They're. They're actually within the state boundaries of Protestantism. Yep. Or national boundaries of Protestantism. Modern American United Methodists. Now, we're on different continents.

[C]

Time for you to move to Europe. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Because they went affirming and are literally an apostate denomination. They walk as enemies of Christ now. So that's one thing to know. Okay. It also should be said that the Methodists in the other parts of the world violently disagreed with the theologically liberal Methodists of the United States. Exactly. Splints off. It caused a schism.

[C]

It does. Because. Well, part of the issue. We may be getting too much in the weeds here, but the United Methodist Church owned the property of these churches. And so you had churches that once these official stances were changing. They're like, well, that's not where we're going. This is an actual example of why multiple denominations actually can be important. Because if yours is being compromised, at some point, you may have to leave, you may have to jump ship. And so that's been happening the last few years. And so, yeah, other denominations now of Methodists are springing up. So when we think of Methodists, don't equate Methodism solely with affirming and heretical viewpoints. It's more Again, about a system of governments, where they come from? They came from John Wesley and some specific things that they hold dear, like sanctification, ironically.

[A]

But I'll just say, you should not be attending an American United Methodist Church. You should not be doing it because the denomination is officially LGBT affirming.

[B]

That's good to know. Ironically, John Wesley is known to coin the phrase agree to disagree. Agree.

[A]

Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. Two other things let me say about this. Unless. Because it leads into the next one.

[B]

Well, hey, you guys, as you know, Lake Point Church is a movement for all people to know Christ, live free, and change the world for God's glory. But here's the thing. Movements, by definition, move. And so if you're not moving, then the question is, are you really being a part of the movement? In fact, somebody once said that too many churches are like football games. 22 people on the field in desperate need of rest, being watched by thousands of people in the sands in desperate need of exercise. Hey, listen, we refuse to be a church like that. And so if you call Lake Pointe Church your home church, and if you have not yet joined a serve team, I want to invite you to take your next step right now. Text the word serve to 20411 and we'll help you find your spot where you can serve in person or online on whichever serve team you are being served. Called to serve. Hey, thank you for being obedient to God's calling in your life. And let's keep doing this together.

[A]

So don't put it up yet. The next one we're talking about are holiness and Pentecostal churches. Pentecostal churches. Now, the reason I'm saying this is large parts of the Pentecostal Church came out of the Methodist Church. Here's why. John Wesley, whereas the Anglican Church had what's called a triad of authority, where they believed, hey, let's balance scripture, reason, and tradition. So there were three things. Let's balance them. John Wesley wanted to add a fourth, and I still use it. He called it the Wesleyan quadrilateral. So John Wesley went, actually, there's four things that should all be level, have different levels of authority in our life. Scripture, reason, tradition. And then he added experience. The reason he had experience is he wanted his people in the discipleship method to have a living, an active relationship with the Holy Spirit.

[C]

Yep. Okay.

[A]

Which is why. Can you toss that Methodist logo up real quick here? That's why the historic Methodist logo has that little flame on it. That's from Acts 2, the Falling of the Holy Spirit. So what was that?

[B]

It's cool.

[A]

It's because of their original emphasis on an experiential relationship with the Holy Spirit. Now that's really not as big of a a thing now with modern Methodists, but that's how they started.

[C]

Oh, quick story. So quick story on this guy.

[A]

If you can make it quick, you got to make it quick.

[C]

So perfect example of this in John Wesley's life. So he comes over on a miss Missionary trip to the American. To America to share the gospel of Native Americans. And he on the boat over, it looks like they're going to go down. He's freaking out, afraid he's going to die. He looks over and sees this missionary group called the Moravians. Don't have time to get into them, but the Moravians. And there's a piece and he's like, something's missing. And then later he writes, I'll paraphrase a little bit. He's like, I'm over here to save the Native Americans, but who in the world is going to save me? And so he begins wondering, am I actually saved? Because he had the right theology. He knew the Bible, he knew the tradition, he used his reason, but something was missing. And so eventually speeding it up, he goes back over and he has this powerful conversion moment where he talks about a warming and fire in his heart.

[A]

Found my heart strangely warmed down.

[C]

That's the idea. I just want to say, because actually it's a good example. We can take great things from each of these. All right, let's keep going.

[A]

Okay, so because of their emphasis on experience and a relationship with the Holy Spirit.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

A large part of what the modern Pentecostal. Let's call and toss this up here. Now I just want to point this out. We put nothing into ChatGPT or Grok. These are all unedited. We don't know why it's the only black one. We don't know. But these are just random. And let me just read this sermon title for the Pentecostal churches are it's your time to catch the spirit or catch these hands. I don't know why that's it. Lots of fire is going on here. But the original. A lot of the Pentecostal movement was originally came out of Methodism. That's right. So Paul, tell us about it.

[C]

Yeah, came out the Holiness movement, which originated from Methodism specifically. Really just exploding what's called the Azusa street Revival in 1900, early 1900s in Los Angeles under William Seymour. So man, Pentecostals would say hey, our ultimate authority is the Bible. But they also do a put a huge emphasis on experience, on the experiential nature of it. And so that's sometimes where they can kind of go into is being. They would even interpret oh my experience as this. But the Bible may say this, they may put a little bit more emphasis on experience. That's the bad version. It doesn't always happen though. Government similar to Baptists and non denominational churches. Salvation, huge emphasis on conversion. But here's the big one. A huge emphasis on the subsequent empowerment by the Holy Spirit, often known as Spirit baptism.

[A]

Spirit baptism second or a second filling.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

Subsequent to salvation, filling with the Spirit is often a mark here. Now I will say it's really tough to pigeonhole that to just Pentecostals like Bro, literally the Puritans. You had Puritans in the 16 and 1700s that believed in a subsequent salvation filling with the Spirit. Tons of Baptists, you know, that kind of thing. But this is a hallmark. A hallmark, which is why. And you may have said this, I'll say it and then I'm going to kick back to you. If you ever see a church sign that says Full Gospel Church, that's a Pentecostal church. Why do they say that? Because they add the filling of the Holy Ghost. I'm going to use their language as part of the end part of the Gospel. And they feel like man, other denominations do not emphasize seeking that filling. So our quote unquote, full Gospel is to seek that.

[C]

Go ahead. And obviously there's variations because anything we say, we say I don't believe it. But for the most part the idea is, hey, when you put your faith in Jesus, that is part of it. But then they would say you are not filled with the Spirit until later. So it's not the. At the exact same time. For many of them, and many if not most would say that accompanying the filling of the Spirit would be the sign of speaking in tongues.

[A]

The initial physical evidence of being filled with the Spirit is what their official doctrine says.

[C]

Exactly. And so a huge hallmark that is unique and this is an example of how it also came out of revival. But also this was just a distinctive part of their experience. Was whereas many other denominations had said things like speaking in tongues, healings and miracles, those things had ceased as at the time of the apostles. Pentecostals were like, oh no, no, no. The power of Acts is still available for us today. One other hallmark, I'd say you mentioned it earlier, but it's important to say in Terms of salvation. They do believe in salvation by grace through faith. And they also, most of them believe that you can lose that salvation.

[A]

Yeah, they do.

[C]

It's an important thing to highlight of where, hey, if we don't agree on that, it be hard for us to be in the same church together.

[B]

Worldwide. This is the fastest growing segment of Christianity.

[A]

I'll double click on that. It is the fastest growing movement in church history. I just want to pause and let that sink in. Modern charismatic. So, by the way, if you've ever heard the word charismatic and Pentecostal, they don't exactly mean the same thing, but they're related. The modern charismatic movement, we call it the charismatic movement because the Greek word for charisma, for spiritual gift is charismata. Charisma or charismata, so that, you know, speaking in tongues is the initial physical evidence it's a spiritual gift. Because of the emphasis there generally, they'll call this group of churches the Charismatic church. And to Carlos's point, the modern charismatic church movement is the fastest growing movement in church history.

[B]

Yeah. Africa, Latin America and Asia. I have a theory. I to why, you know, because again, I. A lot of these places, they actually don't have necessarily the resources to study theology, but what they do have is a, a passion to pray and seek the Holy Spirit and be filled. And so they lean all the way into that and then they get. They experience healings, work, supernatural miracles. And. And so again, this is where you. We would tell you, hey, we want both. We want to be in the Word and we want to. We want the Spirit as well.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

I'll give a compliment, compliment to this, this movement. I have high respect for, for the, the really theological, the, the people with their feet on the ground in this movement. I heard somebody say one time about the Charismatic movement. It is an ex. It began as an experience in search of a theology.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And honestly, man, in some ways, not all that is a high compliment. These people experience the living God.

[C]

It's good.

[A]

Okay, I love that. All right, now, Paul, you want to talk about Lutherans, which by the way, back I had the poster in the top left corner. I had that exact same poster in my college dorm room. That's Martin Luther. And the Lutherans came from Martin Luther. Tell us about it.

[B]

He looks German.

[C]

Really creative in their naming.

[A]

Because he was really.

[B]

No, I'm saying. Well, I'm saying the guy, the guy there. No, I am, I'm aware. I don't know.

[C]

Yeah, I don't know what that means. But I mean, I'm saying this guy. A compliment of some, by the way,

[A]

for those of you who are only listening. It's on his little whiteboard. It says sermon series. Why we don't clap during Hymns Week four.

[B]

Week four.

[C]

We needed four weeks to unpack that.

[A]

Go ahead. All right.

[C]

So Martin luther and the 1500s protested and wanted to reform abuses in the Catholic Church, especially indulgences. And also he would say, hey, there's doctrines that been had been added to the Catholic Church over time. And he wanted to get back to what does the Bible say? And then what did the early church say? This ultimately culminated in that moment in 1517 where he nailed the 95 theses to the door at Wittenberg to protest. So a few things about Lutherans. They would say scripture alone alone is the final authority. Absolutely adamant on that. In terms of how they were governed, it was really more of a local governance. Now they do have what's called a senate, which is the idea of these are larger organizations that Lutherans can join and cooperate together. Salvation, Luther is adamant on salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone. And so even when he would read scripture, a huge emphasis on the idea of there is law and there is gospel. Law is what you must do. But that whole reason that it is there is to show you what you can't do and to show you what Christ did do on your behalf.

[A]

Can I give you my favorite little law gospel tidbit, please. So I don't know. You wouldn't be able to truly consider John Bunyan, who wrote the Pilgrim's Progress. You wouldn't really be able to consider him a Lutheran per se, because it wasn't quite a thing yet. But he's got a little poem about the law and the Gospel. I'll say this, and I'm going to give it back to you. He said, run, John, run. The law demands, but gives us neither feet nor hands a far better message. The gospel brings. It bids us fly and gives us wings. John Bunyan.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

John Bunyan. There you go. Fun fact.

[C]

So a few other things about about Lutherans when it comes to communion and baptism. They have really, really high views of these things. They think that they are means of grace. So they would baptize infants and then with communion. So we'll get into this in a second. We get into Roman Catholics. Roman Catholics believe called transubstantiation. That is where the body and bread become the literal. I mean. Sorry. That is where the bread and the wine become the literal body and blood. Of Christ.

[A]

That's why it's a big deal. If you drop one of them little wipers at a Catholic church, it's a big deal.

[C]

A very big deal. Luther would say they don't magically turn into that, but instead, still, Christ somehow is truly present. He called it constipation est corpus mayo. That's right.

[A]

S. Corpus may.

[B]

I love it.

[C]

You remember all these things.

[B]

Translate that for normal people out here.

[A]

This is my body. Yeah. So when he was. He was actually debating against somebody who has, like, a more Baptistic view of communion that we believe is a symbol that points to the body and blood of Jesus. Well, Lutherans and Catholics believe that. No, no, no. Like, there is a. And this is a whole thing. They believe it in different ways, but they believe there is a, quote, real presence isn't the language both of them will use. There's a real presence. And so Luther was debating somebody who believed that just a symbol. And in a very famous moment, he stood at a podium in a courtroom and pounded his fist and in Latin was hawk. Est corpus mayum. This is my body. Which is what Jesus said. This is my body.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

So one other thing about them, in terms of a little bit.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Luther was an intense guy.

[B]

You need that to start a Protestant revolution.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

Yeah. You do, actually. That's a good point. Just saying, people always think, oh, we're going to reform the church to the same sound of polite golf clubs. And everybody's going to love it.

[C]

Usually prophets have an edge. That's what I'll say. Prophets have an edge. And a little bit thing on their worship, they retained more liturgy than other Protestants. So again, he was not trying to get rid of all the worship form of the Catholic Church. He was trying to get the correct theology within it and get the correct doctrine of salvation within it.

[A]

Presbyterians, here we go. Presbyterians. No, no, no, the other one. Ah. Do the Presbyterians. That one shout out, Gavin Orland.

[C]

We love you, Gavin.

[A]

Go to the other one now.

[C]

We love you, Gavin.

[A]

Gavin Orland is a Presbyterian YouTuber.

[B]

Kindest embodiment of the Presbyterian right there.

[A]

So this is the. And he's got the Soli Deo Gloria. And I just want to point this out. I want you to explain it.

[C]

Paul.

[A]

His little thought bubble is. Now, let's not get too excited about predestination, but also, we must, like three

[B]

ladies, like, falling asleep in the back.

[A]

I didn't see that. Oh, that's rough.

[C]

No, man.

[A]

So.

[C]

So, yeah. So the reformative Presbyterian Tradition originated mainly in Zoo, Zurich, Geneva and Scotland. Main theologian that most people would know is a guy named John Calvin who we also often refer to his theological system known as Calvinism. John Knox was the main leader of this in Scotland. Great place. Half of my lineage is from there. And he was actually the one who they were the one who's coined Presbyterianism. The reason it's called Presbyterianism is that that denotes the type of church governance, their polity, as you said earlier. So a few things here they're elder led church government. So within each local chur, there's a group of men, specifically men who are called elders. But then there is a large group called the presbytery and they get to help govern what happens at those churches. Because here's the thought is, well man, if you have a local church and their elders go off the rail and they start believing heresy and these awful things, you need a bigger governing body who can say no, we're actually going to replace those elders and put faithful men who love the Lord and who love the Bible in. So that's the idea of Presbyterian churches that each local church belongs to a presbytery. A few huge emphasis. You kind of referred to it earlier. Huge, huge emphasis on God's sovereign grace in salvation.

[A]

The two words Presbyterians love the most are sovereignty and covenant. Sovereignty and sovereignty and covenant.

[C]

Another one. You beat me to the other one. And so huge emphasis on the idea that God elects us from eternity. Those who would be saved most of the time, they would also believe. That was all the time they believe. Wow.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Go ahead.

[B]

But yes, amen.

[C]

In terms of baptism, communion. They believe in infant baptism. Baptism and they would say is the real presence in communion, but it doesn't contain the physical body and blood of Jesus, but what they would call the spiritual presence of Christ that he is there in a spiritually special way. Few other distinctives. Heavy emphasis on what's called covenant theology and the regulative principle of worship.

[A]

This is a little weedy. We should move on.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

The regulator principle. No, that's, that is weedsy. Regular principle is weedsy. Now, now what we just finished talking about is everything we just said. We're about to wrap this up. That's good. All of these would fit under the broadest term of Protestant churches.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

So let me just say a couple quick things about Protestant churches. So Protestant churches is basically every non Catholic church. If it's, if a church is, if a church isn't Catholic and it's not orthodox is a Protestant church. Every denomination we just talked about are some form of Protestant church. Once upon a time, what marked every Protestant church were primarily the five SOLAs of the Protestant Reformation. I guarantee I'll get them off them off the top of my head. Sola fide, sola gratia, sola Christus, sola scriptura and sola. Which one? Sola Deo gloria. So faith alone, Christ alone, grace alone, grace alone, Scripture alone, for the glory of God alone.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

And by the way, all of those were specifically crafted as a differentiation point between some aspects aspect of the Catholic Church at the time. Every one of those five. And today, if you just want to God found this really helpful. If you want to go, Is there anything that every single Protestant church has in common? Yes, there is. Here it is. The Bible has more authority than the church.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

That's the one thing every Protestant church has in common. The Catholic Church does not believe that they believe in equality. In general, different Catholics would maybe quibble with a different language. But in general Catholics believe believe that that tradition and the church are on the same level of authority with the Bible itself. Protestants like do not pass go, do not collect $200. Scripture is highest authority. Anything else you'd say there that pretty much that is it. Okay, real quick because this is not our, this is not our nation. You want to talk real quick Orthodox and Catholic real fast?

[C]

Yeah, I'll hit these quickly. So really even building off what you just said, a difference with Catholics. First they would claim that they can trace their lineage and succession all the way back to Peter, who is the first bishop of Rome. That sounds really cool. The only problem is it with is with reality and that that actually did not happen. Instead what happened is the western church gradually centralized around the person called the Bishop of Rome, who often then would become known as the Pope. A few unique things about them.

[A]

Can I say something about that? And then we'll. Yep, yeah. So all of this, the boils down to the key passage is Matthew 16.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

I'm going to to read it. Because this passage right here is the split by the way, between Protestants and Catholics. There's others, but this is the one. So this is when Jesus goes, who do you say that I am? Who do people say the Son of man is? And you remember, some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah. Some people say Jeremiah, one of the prophets. And then Jesus goes, well, what about you? And Peter's the one that pipes up who they believe was the first Pope.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

This is why this becomes important. Peter goes, you are the Christ, the son of the living God. Now Jesus responds saying this Catholics take this very literally. And Jesus replies, blessed are you, Simon, son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter and on this rock I will build my church. Church. What the Catholics do is they say Peter is the rock. What Protestants historically do is we say, no, no, no, the confession that Peter made. So when Jesus says on this rock, Jesus is going, the confession that you just made, that's the rock on which I'll build my church. Now I'm going to make a one sentence argument for Protestantism really quick. Why I think the Protestant interpretation of that is correct is if there is one thing and one thing only, if you take every single denomination that has ever existed, every Christian that's ever existed, Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, and you stick them all in one room, there is one thing and one thing only they will all agree on that Jesus was the Christ, the son of the living God.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

So I think there it is. That's right. That's the rock. So you finished.

[C]

So a few brief distinctives with them is. And now even maybe juxtapose as I'm going with this because Eastern Orthodox, Orthodox and Catholic are very similar, just with a few, a few differences. In Roman Catholicism, the Pope has unique authority. He is the head of the Church. So Scripture is an authority and on par with tradition and then specifically mediated through what's called the Magisterium, which is the authoritative teaching arm of the Church. And ultimately the Pope has this unique and ultimate authority. A few other distinctions. Roman Catholics would say, yes, we're saved by grace and through faith, but that salvation and that grace must be maintained through works, specifically primarily through the sacraments. It's through.

[A]

They believe there's seven. We believe there's two.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

They believe there's seven sacraments and this

[C]

is how grace is maintained. So baptism, for example, it actually saves you. They would believe. They believe it regenerates you, Communion becomes the body and blood of Christ and it continues to give you grace. Few other distinctive beliefs. And we'll go to Eastern Orthodox, they believe in the veneration of Mary and the saints and this idea of purgatory, a place where you must go to, to purge your sins before you can go on to heaven. If you are a believer in Jesus. Eastern Orthodox, let me do Eastern Orthodox. Yeah, you want to do that.

[A]

And then. And I want you to ask the. Our denomination's bad and then we're going to be done because, you know, I know we're going to go on a date with Janna. All right. So I'm going to do. I'm going to very. This is not fair to the Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters. But I want to wrap it up and there's just not a ton of them in doubts, honestly. So let's do this. So basically, the Eastern Orthodox Church. Here's the easiest way to say it. The Eastern Orthodox Church had a divorce for the Catholics a thousand years ago. That's pretty much how you got the Eastern Orthodox Orthodox Church. And they, you know, so they have very strong. They believe in two different, essentially papal successions. You know, the Catholics believe here was the family line of the popes, and then after the divorce, they believe. No, no, here was the true family out of the popes. And I don't know, both of them go, we're the true. We're the original. No, no, we're the original. They do that. And then they have a really, really high emphasis on mystery. It's very high emphasis on mystery and sort of experience. Talk a lot about theosis, which means oneness with God, and it's very mysterious and you might just say mystical. So that's it. That's all we'll do there. Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Wow. So I have a question after that.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I thought I was gonna go a little longer, but I guess we gotta wrap it up. Pastor Josh, are denominations a good thing or a bad thing?

[A]

Okay. I think they're a wonderful thing. And here's why I say this. You do get a lot of Christians that they point at denominations, like, look at all this division in the church. How awful. I actually think denominations are a way of preserving unity. And here's why. Say that you use the analogy of the federal system, the federalist system in the United States. All these states, when our nation was formed, they had some very strong differences of opinion for governance. So then you go, well, man, how do we keep people with strong differences of opinion? I'm going to dovetail this in arc on second tier issues. How do you keep people with strong differences of opinion on second tier issues moving in the same direction and towards the same, same mission? Well, what you do is you create little. You create state boundaries. That's why we use the analogy. We did different states, same nation. It gives us the ability to all move towards the same mission. No Christ, live free, change the world for God's glory, and not be constantly infighting in the churches over how we ought to baptize. People and infants or not.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

So I'll just give an example. I do this at Lake Point all the time. If somebody grabs me in the lobby and they're like, man, Josh, I love this church. I really need you to baptize my kid. Or, I love this church. But we. Man, I need. Is there a possibility that my wife could ever become an elder here? What I'm going to say is, bro, I love you. Here are two churches that you need to go to, and this is not one of them. And that's a way wash that men. He can be over there and not have this constant inner turmoil in his conscience, but they're over there working for the advance of the gospel. We're over here working for the advance of the gospel. And it's actually, instead of causing disunity, it's actually a way of maintaining unity in the accomplishment of the Great Commission and unity in the gospel. So I actually think it's a good thing. That's great. Any other comments there?

[C]

When people bring this up with me, I usually joke around with them and give them a scenario. I'm like, okay, well, if you don't like disunity, I've got a solution. I'm going to humbly vomit. Volunteer to be the head over every Christian in every church in the world.

[B]

That's kind of what the Pope is

[C]

going to be, right?

[B]

That's kind of like the whole.

[C]

And I'm. And I say, well, you know what? I'm going to decide what everyone has to believe and what everyone has to do. And if you disagree, well, I'm sorry, but you got to get in line. And if you continue to disagree, well, I'm going to kick you out of the church. But because every church believes what I believe and does what I do, you're not going to find another one to go to. And if you don't get in line long enough, I'm just going to excommunicate you. Meaning I'm going to say you're to going, going to hell. And so would you prefer that? And they're like, no, okay, well, maybe if there's places you disagree with me, you could just go your own group of people and form your own church around your own beliefs. And I guess you could go start more churches that share those beliefs and those would be called denominations. And so the point is, this sounds really good out loud, but the whole point is that, hey, on some of these secondary issues, you may have a strong conviction for everything, and I may disagree with you on it. But, hey, you have a strong conviction, okay? Go to a place that loves Jesus, that believes the Bible. We're still one in the faith. We're still brothers and sisters. And that's awesome, because you know what? A lot of different churches can reach a lot of different kinds of people.

[B]

And you clarified it was on secondary issues. It's not like we're just saying if you just disagree with the Trinity or on Jesus's resurrection, you can just go ahead and start your own church. That's not what we're saying.

[A]

You're not starting it. You're not starting a new church. You're starting a new synagogue of Satan if you do that.

[B]

And that's the accusation, I think, from our Catholics friends that are like, oh, well, you Protestants just start your own thing.

[A]

Well, Carlos, we're supposed to wrap the podcast. I know. What I will say is this is a little. All right, we're going to say one last thing that I'm asking you to pray, to close. You're praying for. So Catholics do this. They'll point at Protestants and be like, oh, which One of the 30,000 denominations is right? That's what they do. Well, if you start looking inside the Catholic Church, there's a million different little. What do you call it? You know, little orders. There's a, like, brother. There's just as many little niche factions. You know, they just have a little sign over the door and they got a guy with a funny hat that everybody points to. That's the only difference. Okay, Carlos, will you pray for us?

[B]

I'd love to. Heavenly Father, thank you so much for this time for this conversation, for this podcast. Thank you. Because 1 Corinthians 15, 3, 4 is true. For I delivered to you as a first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, that he was buried and he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures. Thank you. Because that is true. That is our hope. Lord, help us live in light of that truth. In Jesus Christ name we pray. Amen. Amen.

[A]

Amen. Amen. Live free, brother.