Podcast Summary

Live Free with Josh Howerton
Episode: Are Christians Commanded to Support the State of Israel?
Date: July 7, 2025
Host: Pastor Josh Howerton (A)
Co-Hosts: Carlos Arousan (B), Bishop Paul Cunningham (C)
Main Theme:
A direct, nuanced exploration into whether Christians are biblically obligated to support the modern state of Israel, touching on theology, politics, end-times views, and practical discipleship.

Overview of Episode

This episode blends scriptural analysis with current events, sparked by the recent Ted Cruz and Tucker Carlson debate about America’s theological obligation toward Israel. The conversation tracks through the Bible, church history, and modern geopolitics, all aiming to answer: Are Christians commanded to support Israel? The discussion branches into eschatology (end-times doctrines), the meaning of “Israel”, and the impact this has on Christian living.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Acts 19 and Revival Readiness

[08:08–20:26]

• Paul’s Ministry in Ephesus:
  Pastor Josh shares insights from Acts 19, connecting Paul’s transformative work in Ephesus to the broader spread of the gospel.
  • The lecture hall of Tyrannus, the seven sons of Sceva event, and mass repentance in Ephesus.
  • The economic and social impact of Christianity on pagan commerce (idol-makers’ revolt).
  • The use of the ichthys ("Jesus fish") as an early Christian marketplace marker during persecution.
• Personal Call:
  Emphasis on being “revival ready” — awakening to the Word, the supernatural, and true repentance.
  • “You cannot be spiritually healthy and revitalized without... a consistent and heavy presence of the Word ... seeking the supernatural leadership of the Spirit ... and practicing repentance in my life.” — Josh (23:27)
  • Notable Quote: “Revival does not happen in isolation. You need to be surrounded by people that love Jesus as well.” — Carlos (33:56)
• Practical Application:
  The importance of Bible engagement, holy reverence (“fear of God”), and community discipleship (promotion of Rooted groups at Lakepointe).

2. Theological and Political Debate: Should Christians Support Modern Israel?

[34:07–48:41]

• The Controversy:
  Reaction to the national debate (Ted Cruz & Tucker Carlson) about whether Scripture requires Christians to support the modern state of Israel.
  • Genesis 12:3 and the “bless those who bless you” promise to Abraham is the centerpiece.
• What is ‘Israel’?:
  Discussion on how ‘Israel’ can refer to:
  • The ethnic descendants of Abraham (Jews).
  • The Old Testament kingdom(s), Northern and Southern Israel.
  • The modern nation-state of Israel (founded 1948, largely secular in leadership).
  • The church as ‘expanded’ or ‘spiritual’ Israel (as in Galatians 3:29).
• Distinction Between People and Government:
  • “There is a distinction between the ethnic people, the Jewish people, and the government of Israel. …There’s a distinction, but overlap.” — Josh (39:04)
  • Citing historical examples of both righteous and unrighteous rulers of Israel and how this impacts the “support” question.
• Disagreement on Reasoning vs. Outcome:
  Paul notes that Christians can arrive at the same political support for geopolitical reasons, but for different theological reasons.

3. Biblical Promises and Their Application

[48:41–62:51]

• Does Genesis 12 Apply to Modern Israel?
  • Paul: The promise is “expanded, not replaced”—the church becomes a recipient, but God’s covenant with ethnic Jews still stands.
  • “While I do not believe the church in any way replaces Israel, what I do believe is that the church is now the recipient of that promise to Abraham ... not exclusively to them.” — Paul (49:01)
• Overlapping Identities:
  • Significant overlap exists between modern Jewish people (nearly half live in Israel) and the state of Israel, but not all Israel’s citizens are ethnically Jewish, and not all Jews live in Israel.
• How Should We Bless Israel?
  • Blessing = Desire for flourishing, justice, salvation in Jesus — for all people, with a special calling to the Jewish people (Romans 9 heartache over Israel’s salvation).

4. Theological Approaches & Eschatology (End Times Views)

[56:15–87:41]

• Covenant vs. Dispensational Theology:
  • Dispensationalists see Israel’s promises as literally and separately fulfilled; Covenant theologians see greater continuity, the church as the fulfillment.
• Tiers of Doctrine:
  • First tier (core gospel, Trinity); Second (baptism mode, church government); Third (end times views).
  • “Eschatological views have almost always been viewed as third tier issues ... we can have a drink and debate it with a Bible open.” — Josh (68:13)
• Three Major End Times Views:
  • Amillennialism: Millennium is symbolic; Christ’s reign is now, culminating in a return and final judgment.
  • Postmillennialism: The world will be largely Christianized before Christ returns.
  • Premillennialism: Christ returns before a literal 1,000-year reign; includes both “historic” and “dispensational” varieties.
    • Dispensational Premillennialism: (Popularized by Left Behind and the Scofield Bible) — the modern Israeli state is prophetically necessary; a future for ethnic, national Israel distinct from church.

Impact on Views About Modern Israel

• Amill/postmill/historic premill folks: See Israel’s reconstitution (1948) as strategically important, but not necessarily prophetically required.
• Dispensationalists: See Israel’s return as a fulfillment of prophecy, a necessary step before Christ’s return.

Notable Quotes:

“Depending upon how you approach the scripture is in large part going to determine how you approach the modern state of Israel.” — Paul (78:12)

Scriptural Reflections

• Galatians 3:16, 29 — The promise made to “seed/offspring” is singular, fulfilled in Christ; all who are in Christ are heirs.
• Romans 11:28-29 — “As regards election, they [ethnic Israel] are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” — Pastor Josh (89:40)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “There's never been a Christian in history who's had a vibrant relationship with Jesus apart from a vibrant relationship with His Word. And we're not going to be the first.” — Paul (24:20)
• “If I look at the sun from 93 million miles away, it will burn out my retinas. And we think that we can just casually stroll into the presence of the living God… There's an appropriate fear that comes with knowing Him.” — Josh (30:23)
• “If you're an unbeliever...[He is] waiting for you to come to repentance. Because when Jesus comes back, for those who don't know him as Lord and Savior, it's the end for them.” — Paul (97:04)
• “It should not be controversial to not want the guy who chants death to America not to have nuclear weapons. Like, that should not be controversial.” — Josh (81:50)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Acts 19 Recap, Revival, and Graffiti in Ephesus: [08:08–16:05]
• Personal Discipleship & Community Application: [23:07–33:42]
• Opening the Israel Debate (Cruz & Carlson Clip): [34:07–38:56]
• Difference Between Jewish People & Israel’s Government: [39:04–42:25]
• Promise to Abraham Applied Today: [48:41–53:58]
• Are End Times Views First-Second-Third Tier Doctrines?: [64:00–68:13]
• Three Major Eschatological Perspectives Explained: [68:13–79:40]
• Impact of Eschatology on Israel Support: [79:06–83:28]
• Prophetic Vagueness and Humility: [83:28–85:01]
• Romans 11 and Supersessionism: [89:40–93:58]
• Practical Challenge and Closing Reflections: [94:54–98:08]

Final Practical Applications

• Humility Required:
  “If the Apostle Paul is going, bro, I don't even get it. That's fine. Well then it's okay for us not to get everything.” — Josh (93:58)
• Urgency to Evangelize Jewish People:
  Commitment to blessing Israel most meaningfully by praying for and working toward revival and salvation for Jewish people (Romans 1:16, Romans 11).
• Unity over Division:
  Recognizing these are third-tier issues; Christians may wisely disagree on prophecy and policy without judging one another’s faith or motives.
• Participate in Community:
  Join a group, study Scripture, discuss with others — “You are one relationship away to experience freedom in Christ, in community.” — Carlos (55:06)

Takeaways for Listeners

• Christians should approach Israel with compassion, wisdom, and a robust biblical framework — navigating both covenantal and dispensational views humbly.
• Eschatological views shape, but do not dictate, the personal and public duties of faith.
• The deepest Christian “support” for Israel isn’t unqualified political endorsement, but prayer and mission so that “all Israel shall be saved” (Romans 11:26).
• Doctrinal humility is vital: “Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God!” (Romans 11:33, cited at [89:40])