How Far Is TOO FAR in Christian Dating?! | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Live Free with Josh Howerton, Lakepointe Church
Episode: How Far Is TOO FAR in Christian Dating?!
Date: August 25, 2025

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Main Theme

This episode of Live Free dives deep into Christian perspectives on dating, marriage, boundaries, intimacy, and sexuality. Pastor Josh Howerton, co-host Carlos, and Jana (Pastor Josh’s wife) answer listener questions, address viral conversations on sexual needs in marriage, and offer practical biblical advice for both singles and married couples seeking Christ-centered relationships.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Podcast Hits and Housekeeping (00:40–07:03)

• Celebration: The podcast broke into the top 5 in Religion & Spirituality and the top 200 overall.
• Community: Listeners are encouraged to join Lakepointe's Rooted discipleship program and access show notes for deeper application.

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The Biblical Blueprint for Dating (11:29–23:39)

For Single Men

• Dating is a Process, Not a Status
  • Don't date just for fun or validation; date with the intention of discerning whether someone could be a spouse.
  • "Dating should not be a status; it should be a process." – Josh (12:46)
• Initiative and Leadership
  • Men should lead in pursuing and asking for dates directly and clearly.
  • "Be a man with some assertiveness and clarity. Use the word date." – Josh (19:31)
• Respect & Kindness
  • Give the woman an easy out when asking; always be respectful if rejected.

For Single Women

• Posture for Pursuit
  • Women are encouraged to be open and welcoming to pursuit but not to be passive.
  • “Put yourself in a position to be pursued… She is sending some real clear signals.” – Josh (18:26)
• Modesty & Attraction
  • Dress attractively but modestly, as it often signals to godly men what you value.
  • "Fish with junk bait, you'll catch junk fish." – Josh (24:22)
• ’Right Pond’ Principle
  • Go where godly men are (church, community groups) and seek godly mentorship.

Avoiding Unrealistic Expectations

• Cultural Myths About ‘The Perfect Spouse’
  • Viral TikToks and memes make people think they need someone exceedingly rare.
  • “You’re falling in love primarily with character and friendship... Attraction grows.” – Josh (32:14)

Practical Boundary Guidance

• Clarity: First date should be low-key and conversational, not extravagant or overly intimate.
• Honesty: If you don't want a second date, don't mislead.
• Community: Allow trusted Christian friends and mentors to speak into your dating life.

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Marriage: Dating Your Spouse Matters (38:25–45:39)

• Continued Pursuit After the Wedding
  • "The pursuit doesn't stop when the marriage happens, the pursuit continues." – Josh (38:53)
  • Date nights are essential for marital health, joy, and “affair-proofing” your marriage.
  • “The grass isn't greener on the other side; the grass is greener where you water it.” – Josh (39:22)
• Children Are Watching
  • How a dad treats his wife sets expectations for daughters and sons regarding dating and marriage.
• Romance and Compliments
  • Men should regularly compliment their wives; women should be responsive and present for dates.

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Viral Video – “Do Men Need Sex?” (54:02–63:20)

Lila Rose’s Viral Clip

• Rose asserts that self-control is the “sexiest” trait; men do not “need” sex; marriage and celibacy affirm virtue.

Biblical Response:

• The hosts emphasize that, biblically, sex is a gift and a normal part of marital intimacy—not a mere survival need, nor something to be seen as shameful.
• Reference: 1 Corinthians 7 – Spouses are not to deprive one another except for limited, prayerful seasons.
• “Even if you don’t think he does, the marriage does need [sex].” – Josh (62:31)
• Married celibacy (as in priesthood) and voluntary marital deprivation are not biblical norms for most believers.

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Building Intimacy While Dating & in Marriage

How Far is Too Far? (77:38–80:38)

• Physical Boundaries:
  • The Bible commands Christians not to lust.
  • For men, physical arousal is a clear signal of crossing a boundary.
  • Don’t see how close you can get to “the line”—ask instead how you can honor God and each other.
  • “Don’t put yourselves where sin is likely to happen... date in environments that protect your integrity.” – Josh (80:11)

Developing Intimacy Before Marriage (80:38–82:35)

• True intimacy in dating should center on spiritual (Christian) and friendship connections, saving sexual intimacy for marriage.

Marriage Submission & Difficult Marriages (67:14–77:36)

• Wives struggling to serve and honor when they feel unloved:
  • Self-Examination: Check for unspoken expectations, negative patterns, or lack of respect.
  • Communication: Use regular, grace-soaked check-ins: “Three ways I’m blessing you, one way I can bless you more.”
  • God’s Commands: Obedience doesn’t hinge on spouse’s behavior.
  • Forgiveness: Don’t keep a record of wrongs (1 Corinthians 13, Proverbs 19:11).

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Notable Moments & Quotes

• "Date your wife or somebody else maybe." – Josh, on affair-proofing marriage (40:25).
• Janet: “Be present. Be a fun, engaged date. Don’t complain—let him know you’re excited to be with him.” (49:53)
• “For women, it’s five things: food, shelter, air, water, and compliments.” – Josh (45:14)
• “Don’t talk to your wife like your college roommate. Women aren’t into that.” – Josh (47:21)
• “You want to build a new marriage with the same spouse.” – Jana, on the hope for troubled marriages (77:22)
• “It is the glory of a man to overlook an offense.” – Carlos, quoting Proverbs 19:11 (75:10)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [11:29] – Biblical framework on dating for men and women
• [23:39] – Jana speaks to women on becoming the person you seek
• [28:35] – Advice: Letting others set you up is OK
• [38:25] – Dating inside marriage, investing after the wedding
• [45:14] – Romance and affirmation for marriage maintenance
• [54:02] – Viral video: “Do men need sex?” and the biblical response
• [62:31] – Why sexual intimacy matters in marriage
• [66:41] – Marriage Q&A: Submitting when unappreciated
• [77:38] – Boundaries in Christian dating – how far is too far?
• [80:38] – Building pre-marital intimacy in Christian relationships
• [82:48] – "Should I become Catholic to follow my husband?" and submission boundaries

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Tone & Language

The conversation is frank, warm, and colloquial—filled with humor, personal stories, and scriptural references. The hosts balance biblical principles with raw honesty, expressing both empathy and challenge, particularly when addressing tough questions from listeners.

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Useful Takeaways for Listeners

• Singles: Date with clarity and intention. Establish boundaries that honor God, and involve community in your process. Don’t expect perfection.
• Couples: Never stop pursuing your spouse. Be creative and intentional with date nights, even with limited time or money.
• Married and Struggling: Focus on what you can control; regularly communicate both encouragement and needs; obey God’s commands regardless of your spouse’s response.
• Sex and Intimacy: Sex is a good gift from God, essential for most marriages, but always within the union God designed.
• Boundaries: Don’t aim for the minimal acceptable behavior—seek righteousness and honor the sacredness of both your own and your partner’s bodies and hearts.

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Listen to the full episode for even deeper wisdom, listener Q&A, and practical discipleship tools.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Live Free with Pastor Josh Howerton. We're so glad you're here. Lake Pointe Church is a movement for all people to know Jesus, live free, and make a difference with their lives. And this weekly podcast is all about helping you do just that. Each episode is a deep dive into the word of God, tackling life, culture, and faith with truth and clarity so you can be equipped to live free in Christ. Thanks for tuning in, and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And follow us on all our social platforms to stay connected to everything happening with Live Free. Now let's dive into today's episode.

[B]

Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the Live Free podcast. My name is Carlos Razzo, and I'm here with Pastor Josh and Janet Howard.

[A]

Jana's gonna break the Internet again.

[B]

Let's go. I mean, that happened last week.

[A]

Okay. Hey, listen, if for real, at Jana, you went, like, mega viral.

[C]

It wasn't me, though.

[A]

Yeah, really. Actually was you. It actually was.

[C]

Well, I'm really glad. I. Hopefully it was helpful to a lot of people. That's.

[A]

Listen, man, listen. We all know what it was. Jana told all the wives to sleep with her husbands more often. And then every husband in America was, like, sending it to his family. His wife, not the family. He didn't send it to the kids, I hope. Hey, for real. I'll just. Can we celebrate the. Please. We hit some milestones this week.

[B]

Week. That's right.

[A]

So go ahead and toss the number five one up. I mean, listen, man, look at this. We hit number five most downloaded podcast on religion and spirituality. Yes, I know, man. So look us right next to Tara Lee Cobble.

[B]

Shout out.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Shout out Tara Lee Cobble. I'm literally doing the Bible recap through the Bible in a year right now.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

With Tara Lee.

[C]

It's really great.

[B]

And not just number five in religion and spirituality, but also top 200 on all categories.

[A]

Oh, yeah. So I want to point this out. So we. I guess somebody sent this to me. Cause I don't mess with this stuff. We hit 174 on. What's that mean? On all categories.

[B]

All categories. Yeah.

[A]

So that's like. Of all podcasts.

[B]

That's right. So literally, like religion, politics, all the things.

[A]

So we hit 174. But, you know, there's a reason that that's circled with pointing to it, because, you know, it's always, always been a life goal of mine to defeat the New York Times.

[B]

Let's go.

[A]

And the Live Free podcast past the New York Times in total downloads. That's awesome, man.

[B]

Let's go, man. Honestly though, shout out to everybody that's liking subscribing, sharing. I mean, this obviously helps us commenting on YouTube. We'd love to hear from you. This is episode 37, by the way.

[A]

Oh, is it really?

[B]

And coming up in this episode, we're gonna talk about different things, but we're gonna go dating, marriage. We're gonna be answering your questions from Instagram. Single people are asking, I just want. I just want to learn how to find a spouse. And we're going to get really practical. People are asking, somebody asked, does biblical headship and submission apply, if at all, in dating? If men develop intimacy through sex, how do you develop intimacy prior to marriage? And we will be addressing a viral video recently asking the question, do men need sex?

[A]

Okay. No, I do just want to say this. If you're not figuring this out, probably the entire Song of Solomon Live Free series will be at least PG 11. So we would probably not to the same degree as last week, but we will hit issues of intimacy and sexuality and marriage. So heads up. We always want to put the ball in the parents hands. Heads up on that, et cetera, et cetera.

[B]

Thank you to the 2,000 plus people that have already subscribed and downloaded the show. Notes, man.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

For people that are maybe new to the podcast, this is a document you can download on each episode where we will include all key takeaways, all the wisdom from Pastor Josh and Jana. Main highlights, additional content and discussion questions for you to take them to your life group and continue to deepen your discipleship together.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Because discipleship happens in relationships and your next step after this podcast is community.

[A]

Specifically, by the way, Rooted launch was this week at Lakepoint.

[B]

Let's go.

[A]

Literally thousands of people took the step into Rooted. If you don't know what rooted ID is, that's like our 10 week discipleship experience. This like it's boot camp for team Jesus. It's something that every single Christian needs to do at least once in their life. This like, we teach people the. It's. It's actually about 10, 7 to 10 rhythms of like, here's how you grow as a disciple for the rest of your life. And me and Jan are leading a rooter group. It's gonna be awesome. It's pretty fun. It's a bunch of young adults in our group. We're like leading a young adult rooter group.

[C]

I'm so excited. Yeah.

[A]

So we'll talk about dating with all Them in our group dating, man.

[B]

It'll be. It'll be great. There is so. So show notes, by the way. Just a text for people are like, oh, how do we get the show notes? Text notes to 20411 or go to Lakepoint Church Shownotes shout out to root it. Everybody joining root it as well. I think we have over a thousand. What are we talking about, people joining root It?

[A]

Oh, way more than. Way more than we had before this weekend. I haven't gotten the numbers yet from this weekend. Before this weekend's push, we had, I think, 1100 already registered because it's like 10 bucks for the book. And by the way, if anybody is a lake point person, and I really mean this, if the $10 is a hardship for you, we'll help you. But it's just 10 bucks for the. But 1100 people had registered and, like, bought the book. So, like, that was before this weekend. So it's going to be a lot.

[B]

More than that, man. I want to give a shout out as well. Jana actually worked really hard on this devotional guide for the 21 here. I'm gonna.

[C]

Don't laugh.

[A]

You did 21 on that. I did.

[C]

I wasn't the only one, though. There. There are other.

[B]

There's some other, you know, contributors that are not as good as Jenna, I might say. And. And I love it because I honestly.

[C]

Aren't you one of them?

[B]

I am one of them, yes. Well, you know, we put the best at the beginning, but then, you know. But yeah, man, I love it because people are. This is actually really helpful.

[A]

Yeah. And so what that is, if anybody didn't know, we're devoting ourselves as a church to 21 consecutive days of prayer and devotions together as a church leading up to something we call encounter. It's basically camp for adults. It's like the last night of camp for adults. We do it every year. And, dude, honestly, I started doing this because, honestly, I did, because I need it where it's like for some reason every summer I get out of my rhythms and, you know, my heart just is prone to wander. Lord, I feel it. And it's just really helpful for me to, like, okay, man, the old is gone. The new has come. Let's refresh and get after it with the Lord. So entire church is doing these 21 days of devotions that Jana and some of the leaders from our church wrote. It's going to be awesome.

[B]

Yeah, it's exciting.

[A]

Let's talk love, life, marriage, sex, dating, Song of Solomon Week 3 dating, both before marriage, finding a spouse, and in marriage, all the things.

[B]

Pastor Josh, I have a question. Why did it make the whole sermon? What did you say?

[A]

I said, I'll allow it. What's that from? What's that from?

[B]

Oh, wait, I don't remember. I know it. I'll allow it.

[A]

I'll allow it.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

It's Michael Scott, isn't it? Isn't it?

[C]

I don't. I don't know.

[A]

It's from a show or a movie.

[C]

You say it a lot. I'll allow it, but I don't remember what it was from.

[A]

It's from something. I don't know. It's from.

[B]

I'll find out.

[A]

All right. Do you want me to talk about what didn't make it in the sermon? While you're looking?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You grock that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I'm going to talk about what did make in a sermon. Honestly, this sermon was like, kind of ver. What are you laughing at?

[B]

No, I think I found it. It's. It might be Brooklyn.

[A]

Nine. Nine.

[B]

Are you. Do you. But you're. Maybe you're right. Maybe it's also the office.

[A]

I think it's Michael Scott this week. So I'm only going to give us one thing, because this week, we. When you're preaching through poetic passages.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

There's not as much, like, what didn't make it into this. Like, when I'm preaching through, like, Ephesians, there's, like, all these theological themes. And when, you know, when there's, like eight verses of them describing their, you know, boyfriend looking like a stallion, there's a little less to.

[C]

But there's a great way to be described.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah. I have one look at my stallion. My stallion. Amen. But here's what here. I did learn this this week. All right? So later in Song of Solomon, you find out it's a. You know, it's the king Solomon falls in love. Later we learn she's a Shunammite woman. Shunam was a region in the Jezreel Valley, I think of Israel, dude. Here's the interesting. I did not know this till this week. This is like a little Bible conspiracy theory. There are a lot of people who think that the Shunammite woman is Abishag. Abishag the Shunammite. Did you know this?

[C]

Yes, I know what you're asking.

[A]

I should have asked my wife.

[C]

Sorry.

[A]

Don't apologize. That's on me. I should ask you Abishag the Shunamite. So if you go to 1st Kings 1. At the end of his life, David is getting really old and he's really cold all the time. So he summons is. He is assigned a young woman named in 1st Kings 1 and Abishag the Shunamite to it says to lie with him to keep him warm. And it also specifies that she didn't, like, lie with him sexually, like just a lot, just to keep his body temperature up in the winter. So what makes people speculate that this she actually could have been the Shunammite woman is Adonijah, who was another, like a rival of David's. So David dies. Then Adonijah asks Bathsheba, David's wife, if he can have Abishag as his wife. Like, hey, can Solomon give me Abishag? Solomon loses his mind because he sort of interprets the request for Abishag poorly, and Solomon ends up killing Abishag. So some people think part of the reason Solomon wigged out on Adonijah and literally killed him when he requested Abishag the Shunammite is because Solomon was falling in love with her and that she is the woman that he ends up writing Song of Solomon about. Because again, I think it's Song Solomon for it specifies she was a Shunammite woman. So there's your little Bible conspiracy theory. Okay, could have been Abishag.

[C]

I always like those details.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Sounds like this is going to be like a TV show at some point. You know, there's all these biblical TV shows coming out.

[A]

Bachelor, you know, Love is Blind, dude. Sean Lowe reached out to us on. Speaking of Bachelor, old Sean Lowe shot us an encouraging DM about some of our content.

[B]

Come on, man.

[A]

I know, man. We got Sean Lowe.

[B]

And you know, with our sermon series.

[A]

Right now, we should shout out Sean Lowe. If you listen, man, we need to get you onto the live free pod during Song of Solomon.

[B]

I like it.

[A]

You've lived this, brother.

[B]

Well, speaking of bachelor, there's a lot of good transition. There's a lot of bachelors out there and a lot of single people asking, man, that's great. I mean, obviously we're going dating marriage. We just want to help some people, man. How do you find a spouse at the end of the day? I'm a Christian. Somebody might say, I'm single, I'm a Christian. They're looking for, you know, a biblical marriage. Let's start with the men. Pastor Josh, what do men need to hear about dating while single?

[A]

Okay, let me say a few things. And then. And then we're going to apply this to Married people. So let me just real quick say this. If you are a married man and you're going, oh, they're going to talk about dating. I'm already married. This is not for me, my brother. I have just determined what is wrong with your marriage. I just figured out what's wrong with your marriage. Oh, man, they're talking about dating. I'm already married. That's not for me. I can solve all your problems right here. So just stay buckled in. But let me say a few things to, like younger to single men that are looking for spouses. Jan is going to say a few things to ladies, and I'm sure there's cross application. A few things I would say to the guys is, man, the Bible doesn't say anything about dating, but it says everything about deciding really what dating is, is dating is a process by which you decide who it is that you want to become one with. Now, the reason I say that is. So just notice, and I hit this a little bit in the message this week in a couple of the services. Notice in Song of Solomon, their date. This passage is about them dating. It's. That's what we would call it in 21st century America. They call it something else. But the middle of chapter two through the middle of chapter three is this essentially courtship process. But notice that, that it leads to a wedding. So one thing I want to point out is that dating should not be a status, it should be a process. So here's what we don't do. Like a young godly man who has honor in his heart and wants to walk in integrity. What he shouldn't do is date. Just a date. Like, oh, I just like dating. Like, I just. It's a, It's a. It's a status. I like. I just like dating. No, no, because we're called to love your neighbor as yourself and to honor one another. Um, what, what you want to do if you're a young godly man is the only reason that you're dating is with an intent to move towards marriage. That's the only reason I will say, you know, if somebody asks, like, man, how old should I be before I start dating? Personal opinion. I don't. I don't think you should start dating until you are within a reasonable chip shot of man, I could actually start moving towards marriage. Here's why I say that. Some people may think, oh, that's really stupid. Well, here's what I would say. Your perspective on this becomes really clear when you become a dad with a daughter. Because I just Think about this. If somebody walks up to me and Jana and they're talking about Eliana, and a young man walked up to us, a middle schooler, and he was like, hey, Pastor Josh. Hey, I would like to have a whole bunch of your daughter's time, and I'm probably going to get a whole bunch of your daughter's heart and emotions. And hey, you know, in a date now, hopefully, God willing, we raise the type of kids who don't do this, but. And you know, I might end up putting her in a position to be tempted to give me, you know, parts of her body and that kind of thing and crossing boundaries, but I have absolutely zero intention of ever ending up with her. Would that be okay with you? How about no? You know, it's like it's dead. I'm like, how about no, it's not. So I do think one. Let's remember that you are dating with an intent to. To decide on a spouse. So don't play with girls emotions. Don't just date just to date. Date. Hey, man, your. Your man's heart might be able to handle that in a way that a feminine heart can't. Have some honor, number one. Number two, I'll move through these other ones just a lot quicker.

[C]

Sorry, go ahead. I also think that applies to, to girls too. I mean, because there, there are a lot of girls that kind of just. They'll do the same thing. So I, I think that is applicable for both people.

[A]

100%. Yeah, 100% for the man. I do think that the guy should be the one to ask, to make the ask. You'll notice in, in Song of Solomon, she puts herself in a position to be pursued, and he does the pursuing. This is, you know, one of the questions we're going to answer later that people had from last week's pod. Was he headship and submission, applying, dating. I'll just go ahead and kind of tip my hat. No, they don't. But you're investigating, right? So it's not. It's not applicating, but you are investigating. So what the guy wants to do is demonstrate that he's the type of person that can initiate and lead in a relationship. That's why, in general, hey, it's on you, young man, to do the asking, you know, because that's a leadership function and you're applying for the job of leader of her and her family. So practice like you want to play, you know, in that regard.

[B]

Can I ask you a question about that, please? If there's a single lady that maybe has a more, you know, stronger personality. Let me just put it that way. And she's like, man. But honestly, like, no guy ever comes to me, and maybe I have some friends that maybe there's something that could happen there. But if I don't say anything or if I don't initiate or if I don't pursue, then probably never going to happen. Yes. No. Good. Bad.

[A]

Anytime he's asking a question about a girl, I'm going to look right at you.

[C]

I mean, I think, like, you know, Josh mentioned earlier, like, put yourself just like lady and Song of Solomon, like, in a position to where, you know, maybe you are where he's at. But I don't. I just. Ooh. I don't know. I don't.

[B]

I hear you saying, Jenna, there's a little bit of a red flag there. One in. In the sense of, like, why isn't the guy.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Taking responsibility to initiate?

[A]

I do think. I mean, I think that's part. So here's what I would say on that. Like, with. I want to. I. I want to be. I want to speak where the Bible speaks and remain silent where the Bible remains silent. So I don't want to make rules the Bible doesn't make. The Bible does not have a rule. It is wrong for a girl to ask a guy on a date. There's not a rule there. But what I will say is if you are in a dating relationship with a guy, and you, the girl, are really the initiator and the leader, you're practicing the opposite way that the marriage is supposed to play, and it's out of order. So it's like, that's. I would just say, like, that's not what you're looking for. I think what I would encourage that young woman to do is, is put yourself in a position to be pursued. Send some. I mean, throughout Song of Solomon, she is sending some real clear signals. Like, she's not passive. She's not passive. Like, this dude knows she's looking for an initiation and that that's a win. Do that.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

All right, let me keep going. For the. So for the young men, you're the asker. You know what I would say is be clear for the. For young men. Be clear. So don't do this. Don't walk up to a girl and be like, hey, do you want to chill sometime? Hey, you want to hang out? Don't do the stupid thing and text her at 10pm you up? You know, I don't know. Don't do the don't slide into the DMs. Like, be a man and be clear. Because here's what. And Janet, maybe you could add color to this. But it's like, if. If a single guy walks up to a single girl and he goes, hey, do you want to hang out? Sometimes she doesn't know what that means.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So now she's confused. Like. Like, be a man with some assertiveness and clarity. And use the word date.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Because now she knows. Oh, that. That's. That's what he's wants.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. Just say what you mean. Because it's like, now we have all these new words, like, situationships, and I don't even know everything that's being said. It's just. It's like. Like, are you dating? That needs to be very clear. Clarity is kindness. So do that.

[A]

That's right. That's right. So be. Be clear. And I will say like. And maybe I'm stepping into Janice territory here, but the reason that sometimes young men don't do that is everybody's afraid of rejection. That's a normal human emotion. And I'll just be really honest. Like, a lot of times younger guys, the reason they don't do that in college or whenever is here. I'll just. For the ladies. Single ladies are listening. Very honestly. What he's afraid of is not just that you're gonna reject him, he's gonna be embarrassed, but that she's gonna go tell all her friends that you asked her and she rejected you, and then all her friends are gonna laugh at him. And very frankly, like, for. For young ladies, like, don't do that. Like, actually, it is an honorable thing that he had the courage and he thought so highly of you that he asked you on a date. Like, I would just kind of say, like, is your character so low that you're gonna mock someone who dignified you? But, like, so I would just say to the young ladies, like, hey, be gentle. What I would say to younger guys when they ask, I'll just. Like, this is what I did in college, and if I asked a girl on a date, I would give her an out so that she didn't feel weird. Like, I would be like, hey, I would love to take you out of. You want to go on a coffee date sometime? I'm thinking next Friday. But, hey, totally understand if you're busy.

[B]

That's good.

[A]

And that's just. I'm trying to make it comfortable for her. I was. I'm not doing that anymore. I'm not doing that. Anymore. But I do think that's just a little hack. Like, make it give her an out is real helpful.

[C]

I think that's a good idea. And then, like, well, sorry, maybe we're still kind of on the guys. But I would say, like, if, you know, there's just. There's. There's no chance. It's just not going to happen between you. And you want to say no, but just doing it a very kind and, you know, loving way, and you don't need to go and tell all your friends about it and laugh and make a big joke about it, because it's not.

[A]

It's not.

[B]

They shouldn't post it on social media.

[C]

Absolutely not. Definitely not.

[B]

Great.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

A couple other things I'd say just real quick is like. And I'm trying to put the cookies in the bottom shelf for our younger. Our young adult guys or whatever. Like, first date. Jan, I want to know if you agree with this first date. Like, keep it chill. Don't go like crazy.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Like, don't. Like, let's go to the symphony and get dressed up and then hit Albert. Or, you know, like, dude, keep it chill.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, or else she's gonna be like, bro, this is a lot. There's a lot.

[C]

And then I expect that in the future.

[A]

He set an expectation that's unrealistic. I'd say, keep it chill and then choose a first date where an actual conversation can happen. So, like, don't take her to Avengers 3. It's like, honestly, movies are a terrible first date because you want to get a talk and know each other. And then last thing, and then I'll turn it over to you. Jana is for the love of Jesus. If at the end of the date, you, the guy, you're not feeling it. That's okay. That's okay. For the love of God, don't end the date by saying something like, I had a blast. Let's do this again. I'll call you. Because you kind of want to do that to. You know, it feels awkward if you don't. And you just. But, man, you're a. You're lying to her. You're putting her in a position, you know, to have unmet expectations, and you're just playing with somebody's heart. So that goes back to the Song of Solomon. Command do not arouse or awaken love before it so desires. Now, Janet, what would you say to the young ladies?

[C]

Yeah, I would say spend time, like, growing into the type of person. The type of person you're looking for is Looking for. I think I said that right.

[A]

Good job.

[C]

But, like, so, like, yeah, just be, like, spend time, like, growing yourself. Like, start learning about marriage now. Like, people you look up to, women who can mentor you, like, disciple you. You can learn to learn from, like, the. Just the tightest two thing. Learn what you can now so you can start to apply it later. I would say, you know, modesty does matter. And think about that. Think about how you dress on a daily basis. Think about how you are dressing on dates.

[A]

I say something about that real quick.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

So that's that thing from last week. You fish with junk bait. You can catch junk fish.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So, like, I would just. First of all, of course, you want to try to be attractive. Obviously, you're not saying don't try to be attractive.

[C]

I think that's a good thing to, you know, to. To try to, like, try to look nice.

[A]

Of course, that's the. There's the whole thing in this passage of he comes to take her on the date, and he's like, hey, I'm standing at the window peering through the blinds. And it's. It's not talking about a peeping Tom. It's in the Hebrew. The commentators literally say, she's taking a long time to get ready. The implication is, she's trying really hard to be attractive for him. That's a win. You should do that, by the way. You should do that before marriage and during marriage. So we'll talk about that later. But dang it, what was the other thing? I was. Oh, the modesty thing. Modesty thing. So this is. I'll just be super honest. I knew when in college, like, I knew I was going to be a pastor someday. I was looking for somebody who could join me in my calling as a helper in that calling. So when I was in college, literally, if I saw a girl that dressed shady, I was like, I'm out. And that's not like, oh, look, Josh is really righteous. No, like, honestly, just a very. I'm a very practical person. No, no, like, I want to be a pastor someday. I'm gonna need to have a woman that sets a standard of righteousness. So whenever I saw that, I was like, I'm out. I'm not. I'm not interested at all. And what for young women, for godly men, you know, may catch you off guard. There are more godly men that think that way than you might think. Anyway, I interrupted.

[C]

No, I. Well, I think you were also starting. Weren't you starting to say. And then you jumped into that about fishing in the right ponds.

[A]

Talk about it.

[C]

Okay, so, you know, we had a really good question, and so I'm gonna go ahead and bring that question in here.

[A]

Toss it on screen. Do we got it?

[C]

But we were.

[A]

Which question was it?

[C]

The only creepy.

[A]

Oh, only. Yeah, yeah. Oh, this is good.

[C]

Yeah. So someone sent us a message that said, only creepy men hit on me. Good men don't seem to notice. What can I do to change? And first off, I just want to say I'm so proud of you. Like, that is just mature question. Mature is very self aware. You're like seeing like, oh, there's a problem here. Now, not only that I'm not going to be satisfied that with that, I want to know how to fix it, because I don't want that to stay the same. So I think that's great. So it's kind of. It goes back to just saying is like, you want to be fishing in the right pond. So are you still. Where are you hanging out right now? Like, where are you going? Like, are you still hanging out at the places that you were before you became a Christian? You need to go to where good men are, where godly men are. Men who love Jesus. So I would say start doing that and, you know, you grow in Christ. Spend this time growing, maturing. The Holy Spirit is. He is very clear and kind. And he. When you ask, like, hey, is there something that I need to grow in? Like. Like help take the blinders off. Help me see. Ask a trusted friend or mentor, ask God just to reveal those areas to you that you need to grow in and then follow hard after Jesus and see who is running right next to you, is what I would say.

[A]

Totally agree. You know, the right pond. So that's like, hey, find a good church. It is totally okay for you to intentionally look for a church that has a strong number of single people. That's not weird. That's not wrong. Like, you're trying to pursue the Lord's will for your life. And that. That's totally okay. Yeah, that's great. Oh, the other thing I would say is, honestly, the way we've mentioned this, the way me and Jana met is a godly couple set us up on a blind date. Totally okay for you to like, literally go to godly people in your church and just be like, hey, I'm gonna shoot you really straight. I wanna be married someday. If you guys come across a young man that you think would be a good match for me, I want you to let me know, you know, if you ever get a chance to set us up, I'm in. Like, that's okay.

[C]

Yeah. And I mean, you don't even have to go to them, like, if somebody has come to you, because that was our situation. Like, we. We didn't ask Jeff and Mary Beth for that. But they just, you know, they saw it like, okay, we were both at the end of college, not dating anybody, and they, you know, they just. They saw. They saw that opportunity there. And so they came to us about it, about meeting each other, and it's the best decision we've ever made.

[A]

On the. Can I say one last thing? Okay, so different thing or that's on the single. On the single thing.

[B]

I do have one thing, if that's okay. Just to add to. Just to highlight what you guys are saying. I think that honestly, because we live in such a hyper, individualistic culture, we think that it's up to me alone, if you're single, to find and find the right person. And, you know, but if you read the book of Song of Solomon's, there's three voices in the book, right? And so there's obviously the man, there's a woman, and then there's a third voice. Who is it?

[A]

Friends.

[B]

There's the friends.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. And so there's a third voice.

[A]

Great point.

[B]

That's very intentional. Like, basically what you guys were saying, you guys had a third voice in your relationship that was actually a blessing to you. And so I think that's. Honestly, even for people that are wrestling, man. You know, I have friends and I'm not sure what to do. Go find somebody that could potentially help you and speak into your life. That will be a blessing to you.

[A]

I'll say two more things to young to single people. One, make sure you don't have unrealistic expectations.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So, like, did we ever find one of those little TikTok videos? It's fine. So there was this TikTok trend. What was the. There was a huge TikTok trend that was like, I'm looking for a man in finance, trust fund. Six, five blue eyes.

[B]

And it was like a techno beat us. Very catchy.

[A]

Looking for a man in five. I'm not gonna. But dude, literally. So it went like insane viral. And then like, I checked the little comments and it was like every. Every woman in America was like, yass was. And then, dude, I saw this, a response video where somebody literally had done the math. Okay. How many men in America are single? 6. Five have a trust fund, blue eyes, and they're in finance. There's 300 million people in America, and the estimate was there might be two. That's hilarious. So, honestly, dude, can I just point this out? The book of Song of Solomon is a story of a king that ends up marrying a farm girl with a country girl with a farmer's tan, a shunammite woman. Very frankly, I bet if you had asked him before he started dating this girl, make your ideal list. He was probably not looking for a peasant girl out in the. Out in the fields, shunamite woman. You know, all this stuff that probably was not on his list. There wouldn't been a TikTok trend like farmer's tan, shunamite woman. I'm looking for a slave girl. You know, it's like, not on the list. So, man, remember, you're falling in love primarily with character and friendship and. Yeah, and you do need to be attracted, but attraction grows. So make sure you have. You don't have unrealistic expectations. The number. There's no. The number of little TikTok videos I'll see is like. It's like these little man on the street interviews where a dude will go up to, like, these naive college girls, and they'll be like, hey, what are your standards for a guy you'll date? And, like, they'll shove a camera in the girl's face, and it's like every time they're like, oh, he's got. How tall has he got to be? Oh, minimum six, four. Okay, you know, how much. How much does he need to make? Oh, nothing lower than 200k. You know, and then. Yeah, so. And then they'll go. Because, dude, I think a lot of younger single people, they don't know how the world works. So then at the end of the video, the guy has this little app that goes through the data and he'll go, okay, here's the percentage of men that you'd be willing to date. 0.004%. And they're like, their mind is blown.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So, like, hey, let's have realistic expectations. Can. Now, can I finish by saying something like 100 yards over the politically correct line, please? Okay, I'm. This is. Let me explain something. Okay. In general, what data shows is that men are looking for women they find physically attractive. So men are looking for hot girls and women are looking for rich guys. That's like the stereotype, right? Yeah, you did not get that when we got married. But I'm just saying, like, in general, that's a stereotype. And in general, that stereotype is actually true. Like literally, data shows that the more earning potential a guy has, the more attractive he is to women. And the more physically beautiful a woman is, very frequently the more desirable. That's what she is for a man. But what's interesting is the opposite is not as much true. I wish I had the screenshot. Data shows like a woman that's like, I'm a girl boss, I want to be a CEO someday. That actually frequently that lessens her attractiveness in the eyes of. Okay, well this is the super un PC thing that goes back to creational design. So let me explain something really quick. Why do men, why is it that men are looking for attractive women? Well, First Corinthians 11, 7 says that man is the glory of God, but it says that woman is the glory of man. In other words, the crowning pinnacle of all creation is woman. It's like God went over humanity with a high gloss finish when he got to the woman. When God creates the woman in the book of Genesis, that's the only time he goes, that's very good. So honestly, dude, like men, they just went as good looking as girls. It's just like literally creation. Like, I don't know, hair everywhere and lumpy and I don't know, it's just all the, it looks very mechanical, made for fighting wars and swinging hammers. But then this is interesting. This is the super UNPC thing. First Corinthians 11, 8, 9 points out, it says man did not. Man was not created from woman, but woman was created for man. Wait, let me read it. For man did not come from woman, but woman for man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. Now this is the UNPC part. Adam was not created for Eve. Eve was created for Adam. Adam was put in the garden to work it and to keep it. Adam was created for calling. Eve was created for Adam. So that's super un PC, but that's what the Bible says. So now let's take this down into dating. I'm going to talk to young men. Okay, I'm just talking to men. What you need to do is you need to get yourself a calling, a career aspiration. You need to get yourself like something you've got vision for your life. Women in general are looking for a man whose spirit is. I'm going somewhere, I'm accomplishing something. My life is going to be about something that matters. And, and women are attracted to that. I'm talking to young single guys. You need to know this. They're attracted to that. Why? Because literally that's how creation happened. Adam was created for a calling, and then Eve was created to see Adam and the calling he was pursuing and be attracted to that. So for young men, what I would say is, hey, bro, get yourself a career, a vocation, a calling, some goals in your life. Be moving in that direction. Start running as fast as you can towards those things. And then in football terms, put your head on a swivel while you're running down the field, and then start looking at what girls are moving in your direction. What are you smiling at over there?

[C]

That's good. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Sound right.

[B]

Did you guys. Did you share that, Josh, when you guys were kind of getting to know each other, hey, you said you had a pretty strong conviction that you were going into ministry. And is that something that you guys did?

[A]

Oh, that's. I mean, yeah. I mean, when we met, you know, I was speaking a lot of youth events. I knew from the very beginning, I want to start a church someday.

[C]

Yeah. And our hearts were already in alignment because even before I met Josh. So when, like last week, we talked about how, like, I didn't end up going on with my master's in speech. Speech therapy, because it was already at that point in time, like, God had called me to ministry, too. So I hadn't met Josh yet, but I knew that I was going to be going down a different path. And so when we met, it was just. Our hearts were already in a line with the same thing. We had same vision for our future. And, I mean, we didn't know how God was exactly going to intertwine that and work that out, but we were heading in the same direction, so. Same page.

[B]

That's great. Yeah. I hear you saying, if you're a man, find a calling or have a sense of it at least. You don't have to have it all figured out, but have a sense of it. And then you need to make sure that whoever you end up with, hey, it's. You're going. You guys are going in the same direction.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Not just. Yes, not just. Make sure. What I'm saying is a man that's moving in a direction becomes attractive to single women, because that's how God created the world.

[B]

There you go. That's single people. Let's talk marriage. Let's just flip it. Great. Dating inside of marriage. You started saying, hey, gentlemen that are married, this might be something that you need to be paying more attention to. Josh, what would you say to the married men?

[A]

Yeah. So let me. I got some of this in. In most of the Services. But this is really important, so. And we're, we'll be very raw here.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

1. When a man dates his wife, first of all, that's the pattern of Song of Solomon. The pursuit doesn't stop when the marriage happens, the pursuit continues. So it's like you want to have a happy marriage, like, invest in it.

[C]

And I almost feel like. Not that you weren't pursuing when we were dating, but I almost feel like, I don't know, it's even more now. Yeah.

[A]

I'm glad to hear that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Thank you. So I say a few things. I'm just gonna be real practical. Like, why do you want to do this one? Because the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. The grass is greener where you water it, definitely. So I think a lot of guys, you know, the stereotype is guys get into their 50s, they get bored with their, their, this is worldly. They get bored with their wife, they start looking over the fence, they have an affair. I better be more fun over there. Oh, let me trade her in for a younger model, which is a really worldly mentality that's going to result in brokenness and sadness and loneliness. Hey, the grass hidden green around there set off fence grass greener where you water it. What you want to do, man of God, is you want to craft a marriage where you're going to be so happy and have so much fun being 80, sitting in a rocking chair, holding hands with grandkids and great grandkids running around your backyard. Hey, man, that, that, that's happiness. I'll just say this like, if good looking people having hot sex equaled a good marriage, all the best marriages would be in Hollywood. Hello.

[B]

Not happening.

[A]

Not happening. That's not what makes a great marriage. Okay, Number two is. Hey, man, when you what I would say, like, and this is a little rough, date your wife or somebody else maybe, like, so this is how you affair proof your marriage. I'll be honest. Like, and I think I can say this with total integrity. If an a, if another man ever tried to date or you know, flirt with Jan, whatever it is, A, you know, I'd be doing prison ministry from the inside, starting a campus, starting the correctional facility campus. But B, you know, and Jana, you are free to disagree with me later and you can tell me, but I think I can say with all integrity, there is no man anywhere that would treat Jana better than I date Jana. I absolutely agree and I feel like I can say it with absolute integrity. Like, no one anywhere would do that. And Jana has her integrity. She would never step outside of a marriage. But like, in one sense, what you're doing there is you're affair proofing your marriage.

[C]

Yeah, that's good.

[B]

It's a good word.

[A]

The other thing, let me just do these real quick. Especially for dads with daughters, you're not just a fair proofing your marriage, you're loser proofing your daughter. So I think every dad needs to understand that your kids are watching you date your wife. How you treat your wife is setting the minimum standard and expectations that your daughter is. Is going to look for in every guy. So if you are a loser and you treat your wife like a loser, you are now setting your daughter up to be willing to date losers. But if your daughter, if our daughters grow up saying, dad takes mom out or they find a way to get a date every week, and dad takes a shower with soap and water. And dad, you know, he uses the gift cards to take mommy special places and he gets mommy flowers and he writes mommy post it notes. Like, I'll get like Eliana has literally said before about little, little middle school boys who joked that they liked her. And I'll be like, what about you? Do you. What do you think about them? And she has literally said before, oh, no, he doesn't even hold the door open for me. Guess where she got that? She watches me hold the door open for her. So what happened is any guy that doesn't treat Eliana with a high standard of value, she's going to be like, I'm out. I'm setting her. I'm protecting her from all the losers by making sure that I date my wife. Well, so hey, dads fight for your daughter by dating your wife. And then the last thing I'd say, just real quick, is you're also God proofing your prayers first. Peter 3. It does that live with your wives in an understanding way so that your prayers might not be hindered. And the implication is, God's going, hey, when I gave you your wife, I entrusted you with one of my daughters. And if you're mistreating my daughter, I'm not willing to hear anything from you until you fix that, my friend. So, like, God's literally going, I'm not listening to your prayers. Fix how you treat my daughter.

[B]

He literally says, if you don't listen to her, I'm not listening to you.

[A]

That's exactly right. That's exactly right. So that's the why. I'll give a couple quick hows and then I'm gonna turn it over to you because I'm talking for too long. I still think the pattern of leadership in the marriage. Hey, husbands, lead with. Lets you be the one that initiates the dates. And, dude, it doesn't gotta be expensive, man. That's not. We're talking about, like, for huge seasons of our marriage, our date was McDonald's. McDonald's. We literally McDonald's. And then we'd sit in the car in a pretty place and overlook a city and just sit and eat McDonald's and talk, go to Starbucks and spend $8 on two cups of coffee and hang out like. So anyway, husbands, you initiate, you plan expensive coffee, man. Well, Starbucks.

[B]

Starbucks, that's right.

[A]

They call five bucks. Yeah, they call it five bucks. Yeah. Only other things I'd say is, you know, the obvious stuff we said, like, hey, man, put in effort. Like, wear a shirt that doesn't have a team logo on it and an oil snake. Like, you know, put something like that. Here's the other thing I'd say. And Jan, I'd love, agree, or disagree with this. You know, in high school, you learn humans need four things to survive. Food, shelter, air, water. I think for women, it's five Food, shelter, air, water, and compliments.

[C]

Oh, compliments are nice.

[A]

Yeah. So, you know, it's a half joke, but, like, hey, man. Like, hey, man, when you take her on a date, compliment her, tell her how nice she looks. You know, say. Say a few things.

[C]

But, you know, I'd say the same thing to women. Like, compliment your husband, notice things on none of these.

[A]

Am I saying it's only for the men? Okay, I'm not saying these are only for the men, but totally agree with you. And then I'll give a quick don't for the guys.

[B]

Can I add something to that? Which is that. Please do. So it's funny because. Well, first of all, some episodes ago, Pastor Josh taught me how to pronounce the word romance. And so. Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm learning how to speak English.

[A]

How did you say it?

[B]

Not to be confused with the word romance. Oh, that's like the book of Romans. Yeah, yeah. So one. That's Juan. So I think there's obviously a very strong biblical case to do what you just said in terms of, like, romancing your wife and. Or your spouse. And if you. This is a little thing that I found this week. So the first time we hear Adam speak is literally he's singing to Eve, right? And he says, bone of my bones. This is literally the first Time anybody, like a human being speaks in scripture is. Is a husband speaking something romantic to his wife. And then obviously, you know, same thing obviously, with the Song of Solomon.

[A]

That.

[B]

That happens all the time. And so I just wanted to add that. That note.

[A]

It's in. That's. I think. Yeah, that's it. Now you don't got to sing a song. I don't sing songs to Janna. But every now and then, I'll. We'll turn on our little playlist. Thanks. And then, you know, I think the only other things I'd say is I'll give a little hint. Like, some guys are not talkers as much, right? Like, dude, there are literally, I have an iPhone note, and I've used it before. Jana knows where. It's like, fun date night conversation, questions. And literally, sometimes in the truck, I'll be like, hey, babe, here's an iPhone note. You pick one, and then I'll pick one, and then we'll just. I don't know. It's a fun little way to have something to talk about. But what my don't for men in general, especially married men, is, hey, man, because I see a lot of guys do this. So don't do this. She's.

[B]

She's.

[A]

She's not your football teammate, and she's not your college roommate. Like, don't talk to her like one. Like, don't make a million jokes at her expense and.

[C]

Oh, definitely don't do that.

[A]

Well, I just. More men than you would think, they talk to their wife like they would talk to a dude, and it's like, hey, man, women are not into that.

[C]

No, that's good.

[A]

What would you say to Jana? What do married women need to hear about dating and marriage?

[C]

I think, like, the first thing is, like, thinking about how to be a fun date. You know, you want date night to be, well, the best night of the week. That's what we say. Like, it's our. Our favorite night of the week. So you need to do. Actually, we kind of talked about this last week about, you know, women just are caring for so many different people in their lives, so you need to do whatever you have to to get yourself in the mindset of just being there, being on that date so you can stop thinking about, oh, I left all this work undone at home or in the office or, oh, the kids need this. Like, you need to turn that to do list off. You need to be able to be. Be present. Be present because you need to be responsive. Don't just sit there. Like, you need to be actively engaged, excited to be there, and just, you know, being willing to take an interest in things that he enjoys talking about. Because, you know, I think it's so easy for women. Like, I don't know, it's just easy for us to talk. We can talk about anything. But, like, be an active listener to, like, if he wants to tell you about work or if he wants to tell you about something he's enjoying and like, care about it. Like, just be a good listener. And it's funny. One thing I'd say is, you know, send a flirty text or verbally tell him how excited you are for date night to show him you're interested. And somebody. One of their comments was like, well, what if you don't write post it notes or, or. Or whatever. Well, just. You need to be a student of your husband. What does he like? So you can show him that you're excited. So. And do it that way. Dress in ways that he likes. You know, it's like, I don't know, you want to. You want to look different for him than as if you've been taking care of the kids all day. You want to. You want to be ready. You want to dress in ways he likes. Like, put in the effort and then don't complain while you're on the date. Like, so you're driving. Like, well, you're finally taking me out. It's how been weeks or it's been.

[A]

Months or we always go to the same place.

[C]

Oh, why do you pick this place? I don't even like it. You know, it's just like whatever it is, Drip, don't be mad.

[A]

Proverbs.

[C]

Yeah, don't be that woman.

[A]

Waterboarding.

[B]

Isis. ISIS torturing.

[C]

Yeah, no, that. That's really not gonna. You're not gonna have any success with that. So it's like, like, think about just like, I am so glad to be here with you. Like, this is such a joy that we get time just to hang out, the two of us, and to talk and so just let him know that you are excited to be there and then make sure that the date night ends well for, I would say, not only him, but for you as well. So. So do that.

[A]

Like, and she.

[C]

Those things.

[A]

I just. She means what she thinks she means.

[C]

I do.

[A]

Like this.

[C]

Yes. Have sex.

[A]

There you go. That's right.

[B]

Well, hey, guys. One of the reasons we are intentional in creating these kind of podcast episodes is because we believe that discipleship happens in relationships. Having said that, what we want to do through the live free Podcast is we want to model what it looks like to be in a discipleship group where we come together and open up the word of God together and grow together as followers of Jesus to live free in Christ. For this reason, we love that you're tuning in, but honestly, we don't just want you to be a pastor passive listener. We want you to be an active participant. And so if you have not yet joined a group, you need to get into Rooted. Rooted is a 10 week discipleship experience that helps you grow closer to God, build meaningful relationships, and discover the purpose he has for your life. Rooted guides you to practice the seven rhythms of following Jesus to transform your faith from something you know into something you actually live out every single day. And so whether you're exploring what it means to follow Jesus and you're ready to grow deeper in your faith or maybe you're searching for people to do life with, rooted is for you. Just text the word rooted to 20411 and our teams will follow up personally. Do not wait. Your next step starts now.

[A]

I'll say a couple quick things too, because I do think a lot of. First of all, there's not a biblical command to have a date night. There is a biblical command to pursue your spouse and invest relationally. So, you know, we saw a bunch of comments like, but we can't afford it. We have kids. What do we. You know, honestly, there's maybe a little bit of righteous anger. It's like, just please hear me, you know, gently but firmly, like, you're an adult. Figure it out.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, can I just gently just say, like, be an adult figure, especially to the men. Figure it out, bro. Yeah, that's what men do. You're not a baby. Figure it out. So, you know, if you need to do. We've done this before.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Sometimes date night has been, we get the kids down 30 minutes early or an hour early. And it's not date night. It's date night. We're staying in.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And, you know, having this special snack. There have been seasons where we've seen friends do babysitting co ops. Hey, we can't afford a babysitter.

[C]

Right?

[A]

That's fine. Do a thing where you get together with four couples and go, hey, Thursday night, we're all doing date night. We're gonna rotate who keeps the kids. Then three nights a month you get a date night. And one night a month, you get 100 kids. But it's, you know, hey, free. What? You just did free babysitting. Three nights. Three. Three Times a month.

[C]

Yeah. It's whatever you need to do to make it happen. Yeah.

[A]

But just like, I just want to gently say in a loving way, figure it out. Figure it out.

[C]

Your marriage is worth it. Like it is. Stop going out to lunch with people so you have. If it's fun so you can go somewhere. You don't have to go anywhere expensive.

[B]

I think people are gonna be curious about the part that you guys just mentioned about the date night ending in a way that it will be bring joy and intimacy to.

[A]

You're allowed to just say sex.

[B]

Okay. Husband and wife will have sex. That's right.

[A]

Not. Not every. It's not a rule. But in general, yeah, that's great. Needs and good.

[B]

That's practical and helpful. And speaking of that, there was a viral video that went, you know, that kind of went around. Dude, this is extremely viral. And we will talk about it, but first I want us to see it. And so we'll have Trinity if you can help us with the video. This is. Before you play it, actually. This is Lila Rose, who is a pro life activist and a devout, outspoken Catholic. And this is. She speaks into again marriage. In this case, anti abortion. And so this kind of. This is the clip that went viral.

[C]

Can we all talk about Father Mike Schmitz? I showed him to a girlfriend who's not Catholic. She's like, wins mass. What about the man needing sex? That's. That's just a cultural narrative that basically says men are like animals and they have to be able to do this sexual thing, otherwise they're going to go crazy. And the reality is there's whole vocations that are celibate. And these are virile men, men's men. Some of the most masculine of men I know are priests. We need food, we need air to breathe. We don't need sex. It's a gift of coming together and it's designed to bring life into the world. I think the sexiest thing about a guy is like, their self control.

[A]

My husband has amazing self control.

[C]

So after baby number four or when we started practicing nfp, it was like we couldn't do it sometimes when we wanted to. And that kind of made things a little steamier. Like, not gonna lie, it's hard on him too. Don't get me wrong. People will say, well, oh, do you just do other things for your husband?

[B]

And so this is what she wrote with that video. And I'm not gonna read it all, but I mean, I need sex. Our culture is so hypersexualized. That the idea of a celibate priest leaves people in disbelief. So if that's just impossible, as if it's impossible, that's heartbreaking. Have we really forgotten that self control and virtue are within reach? Look at Jesus, most perfect man on earth. He was celibate and sinless before he was crucified for our sins. And then she quotes First Corinthians 7 and towards the end she goes, abstinence isn't just for priests. Intermittent abstinence can also be a beautiful practice within marriage. If a couple has serious reasons to delay bringing a baby into the world. When practicing natural family planning, spouses can grow in self mastery, deepen their love, and remain faithful to God's design for marriage. Christ is the model. Love is the reason, holiness is the goal. And to be fair, she obviously video went viral. She responded later, kind of clarifying what she meant, what she didn't mean. But before we go there, Pastor Josh and Jana.

[A]

Well, first of all, let me just say in general, I don't know a ton about her, but I like what I hear about her. Like totally pro life, loves Jesus, stands for right things. So let me just respond to maybe not as much what she said, but what people could hear. But I will just say this. I don't, I don't know if I'm allowed to say this. I don't know if the Catholic Church and Catholic priests are the go to example you want to use for how celibacy works out really well. Just like I don't know if that's the example that you want. There is a reason that there are constant sex scandals having to do with Catholic priests. Because the Catholic Church has, in a completely unbiblical way, required priests, contrary to every everything that the Bible actually says, to remain single. And they should stop doing that immediately. So let me just point this out. This is really interesting to me. It's totally silly. The Catholic Church requires priests to be single and celibate. The Catholic Church claims that apostolic succession. The first pope was Peter. The Bible literally tells us Peter was married.

[B]

And by the way, how do we know that? Because.

[A]

Well, from the Bible.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'm gonna read it.

[B]

He had a mother in law.

[A]

That's right. A he had a mother in law. That's mentioned in Matthew 8, Mark 1 and Luke 4. But not only that. First Corinthians 9:5 literally tells us he had a wife. Explicitly. I'm going to read it. 1st Corinthians 9:5. Paul says, don't we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord's brother. Here we go. And Cephas, which is Peter. So, like, it literally tells us that who you supposedly say your apostolic succession goes back to his first pope had a wife. So I have a bunch more to say, but I feel like I'm talking too much.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

You want to go? You want me to go? You want to go?

[B]

I think. Well, that's a good clarifying point. I guess the question people were asking is, hey, is it true men don't need sex? Question mark.

[A]

Jana, you want to go? You want me to go?

[C]

I mean, it's probably better for you to answer that, but.

[A]

Yeah. Like, you're a guy. Well, let me just. So here's what I would say is it depends what you mean by the word need. Yeah, what do you mean by the word need? Here's what I would say. I doubt that, you know, it's two women who are having that conversation. I doubt two women would be super comfortable with men saying women don't need emotional connection. Women don't need relationship. Okay, what do you mean by need? Like, if you meet in terms of, like, survival, food, water, air, shelter. Like, okay, not for survival, but in the same way. Like, I would say, like, use the example of friendship. Friendship is not necessary for survival, but it is a need in terms of. If you go without it for long periods of time, it's going to be damaging to you because it's very unnatural for you not to have any friendships in your life. Like, let's just speak honestly. Like, grown adults, grown men and women, like, God created humans as sexual beings. That's. That's what's natural.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The natural state of a mature adult is as a sexual being.

[B]

And you spoke about this, Josh, recently. Sex is not gross. It's not God. It's a gift. According to the Bible.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

But I think our culture, there's. There's these two opposites. Like, a lot of people say, oh, no, that's gross. Don't talk about it.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Another culture is. Another part is other culture. It's like, no, no, it's got it. That's all we're about. And Bible says, no, it's a gift.

[A]

It's a gift. Yeah. God, gross, gift. Got that from Driscoll. But that's a little helpful analogy. But the other thing, A couple things also, that I'd say is, you know, she uses. She quotes 1 Corinthians 7. But honestly, dude, I would just encourage you to Read all of 1 Corinthians 7. 1st Corinthians 7 starts by saying this now concerning the matters about which you wrote. And then this next sentence is in quotes in your Bible because Paul is quoting questions that they sent him. So this was like his equivalent of an IG story with what questions do you have? And they sent him some. So the question they sent him was, it is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman. In other words, men don't need this. Like he's literally addressing exactly this thing. Men, men, men don't need this. Right. Verse 2, Paul says, but because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, talking about sex. And likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise, the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Verse 5. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time. Okay, well, what's the situation where we can do that, Paul, that you may devote yourselves to prayer.

[C]

Prayer. That's it.

[A]

Not. We're having an argument. And so I'm still mad and I'm going to punish him or I'm going to punish her for the next three weeks, you know, not. I'm just not in the mood. Not that. No, no. So that you may devote yourselves to prayer, then come together again. Why? So that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self control. So, man, I think it depends what you mean by need. And then I would just say man, even if you don't think he does, the marriage does need it.

[C]

Yes, absolutely.

[A]

Thoughts?

[C]

Yeah. And because I don't want to take anything she like said out of context and like misunderstand or anything, but it's like, you know, it's. Priests chose celibacy, a married man did not. And so I just think that's great. We like, you can't compare the two. And so we need to read all of the First Corinthians passage there and do not deprive one another. And then the last comment about holiness is the goal, well, you know, of course, for priests to be celibate and all that. Yes. That is, there's holiness there. But sex inside marriage with a husband and a wife is also holy.

[A]

Is holy.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

That's right. That is holy.

[C]

Yes. Yeah.

[B]

Praise God.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Is there anything you'd add there, Carlos?

[B]

No, man, I think you guys said it. I think that. I mean, that. That. That's it. We're gonna. We're about to jump into the Q and A on Instagram. I want to make sure we don't miss those. Okay, but before, very briefly, Josh, this passage in the Song of Solomon talked about how catching the little fox is what the book calls it now. Man, these little fox will ruin a marriage. Anything else that you would say? Obviously, we're talking about intimacy and sex and depriving one another. Anything else that you would say? Man, you got to be mindful of this little fox that might ruin your marriage.

[A]

Man, there's a million things you could say here. The stuff that I feel like gets people the most are, number one, you got blueprint issues. So I think what I mean by that is when. When an architect. When a builder is in a relationship with a client, the first thing they got to do is agree on the blueprint. What are we building? Because if you're trying to build something different than I want you to build, we're going to have a lot of conflicts. We build a ton of stuff at Lake Point. If we drop however many millions of dollars into building a new campus over there, and then Tally Riggins would never do this. So shout out Tally Riggins. But then Tally Riggins, one of the builders we've used, build something different than we agreed on, we're gonna have some serious conflict. They would never do that. We love them. So, number one, I do think, and I would apply this to people who are single and dating. You need to have the conversations up front. What's your vision for your life and family? So, like, very frankly, the blueprint we need to be looking for, according to the Bible, is the. The husband's primary orientation needs to be towards the marketplace provider. The wife's primary orientation needs to be towards the home. I'm not saying that it's wrong for a woman to work. We're not saying that a woman's. A wife's place is the home. What we are saying is that according to the Bible, a wife's priority does need to be the home. So, man, you need to agree on this stuff up front. And then, you know, like, so, number one, get your blueprint, right? Because if she's got. If. If she's got career, woman, girl, boss in her head, and you've got, man, I want to build a family and have a. You know that you have a problem. Get. There's four things that every marriage Needs to agree on and the divorce rates just go insanely down. Is faith money faith money? Oh, I'm missing too. I'm having a brain lapse.

[C]

Sex is on there.

[A]

Faith money. Is intimacy on there.

[C]

I thought, I thought maybe I'm wrong.

[A]

And then I thought it was family. Like, oh, faith money, parenting. I think it's faith money, parenting and then extended family. I'm gonna look it up real quick. But you need to your issues probably be in one of those areas. And then the last thing I would say is you need to figure out how to get real good at doing. Conflict and forgiveness.

[C]

Yes, that's important.

[A]

That's gonna be a whole week of the series later.

[B]

There you go. Yeah, that's right. Coming soon. Hey, let's get super practical. These are Q and A from our people, our listeners.

[A]

Make sure I said the right.

[B]

And by the way, if somebody's tuning in right now, hey, let us know in the comment section. If you're joining on YouTube. We would love to hear your comments. We again, if you have any questions, I'm, I'm assuming some people have some follow up questions. We're going to be answering those as well as we continue in this series. Um, let me, let me start here. There's a question, Jen, I want you to tackle it. This is somebody asking on our Instagram Q and A. This is what they say, Trinity. Can you pull up the. How do you continue to serve and submit to your husband when you get nothing in return for years?

[C]

Okay. This is not the first time I've seen this question. I think there are actually multiples very similar to this. And I, yeah, I just, I get this question, asked this question a lot. So I do not know this person's specific situation. So I don't want this to feel like too direct towards one person. I'm kind of gonna answer it just to generalize based upon all the conversations I've had like this. I think it's really difficult to answer that because I don't know your situation. I don't know what's happening. I don't know all the details. But what I do see here is there is a belief that you're doing everything right and he is doing everything wrong. And most of the time what I've come to find out during these conversations is that's just not completely accurate. So what I tell would tell you is that you have to own your part. So you are responsible for you. And, and that is before the Lord and he is responsible for him and God will hold him responsible for his part. So that is like the first, first thing I would say. So we can't control him and I can't even speak to, to what he is or isn't doing. But I would say here's some, here's a checklist for you of things that you can, like, examine in your, your own heart and just be prayerful about this. So are you respecting him? Are you building him up with your words? Are you tearing him down? Do you have unspoken expectations and you're angry that he's not responding to them? Do you pick on the couple areas he gets it wrong and never praise him or thank him for what he gets it right? Do you fuss at him every time he tries to help you because he didn't do it the right way? And I promise you, if, if you're doing that, he's going to stop trying to help you because it's never good enough. Do you treat him like a child or like you're his mom telling him what to do? Because you need to remember you are not his holy spirit. Are you pouring into your marriage what you're hoping to get out and then not thinking about what he needs? Are you a sexual blessing or do you find yourself withholding because you just don't feel like he deserves it? And are you praying so you need to be.

[A]

Can I go over something you just said with a verbal highlighter?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

So I don't want to run past what you say because I think it's really important. You said, are you pouring out to him what you wish you were getting instead of pouring out to him what he wishes he was getting?

[C]

Or not even that, but what, like, yeah, what he needs.

[A]

What he needs. It's like, you know, I kind of joked about how husbands will do that and they'll get all touchy feely and touch, touch, touch, when what she wants is emotional connection. This is very frequent with wives, too. I love and serve him. I pour out everything and you know, again. And we're not trying to make everything about this, but, you know, it's like. But then it goes back to. And then you find out there's like no physical intimacy in the marriage when it's like, well, you're not pouring out what he might be hoping to get. So it's the exact same for husbands as for wives. Go ahead.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, pray, like be praying for him. Praying, praying for yourself. You know, praying for a new marriage with the same spouse. Asking God to open your eyes and help you see what you need to change. What can I fix? Like, Lord, do I have blind spots? Are there things that I am not doing that would be a blessing to him? And then, you know, if. So if you're convicted of this and I have done this, I have come to Josh and, like, just full repentance, like, God is just so open my eyes at different points in time, and I'm like, I was really blind to see this. You needed this, and I wasn't giving it, and I was being selfish and seeking forgiveness. And. And there is a beautiful thing to that. Like, to repenting and then walking in repentance whenever you find that. So one thing I would say, too, is, like. And I don't know, like, how you would interject this, but just to get the ball, like, moving down the core on this one thing Josh and I will ask each other every so many months on a date night is.

[A]

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. You go ahead.

[C]

Okay. Yeah. And you have to make sure your. Your heart is in a posture to receive this. Do not get offended. But you ask, like, are the. What are three ways that I'm blessing you and one way how I can bless you more? And that is just, like, one, you're hearing all these things, like, oh, wow, he noticed that. Or that's been a blessing. But don't get upset about that one thing. Just work on it, do it, fix it. And that is a blessing. And so there's so many things that I learned or didn't realize because, you know, I'm like, oh, I didn't. I didn't realize I was weak in that area. And then I just keep trying to improve on it.

[A]

There's a genius to that question that I just want to point out. The. What are three ways I'm blessing you on? One, I could bless you more. There's some genius there. One, you start with three heavy encouragements before anything that could feel like a critique. So honestly, whenever you do it, by the time the critique comes, you're like, I feel amazing. I am crushing it, you know? Two, it helps with understanding because it's like, a lot of times when we'll do the three and three ways I'm blessing you, she'll say things I would not have expected. And then I learn, oh, when I do that, it really lands on her heart and vice versa. And so we're learning, like, love. All the love language stuff.

[B]

It also helps you because you guys share that with Brooke, and I, like, I don't know, like, four or five years ago. And honestly, we do that every time. And it also helps you whenever, you know, you get in a fight and you're like, I'm holding this against my wife. I can't wait to get to the. The fourth point for me to, you know, let her know. And we're kind of worked up about it, and I'm worked up about something, but then I'm like. I go through, like, 1, 2, 3. Three ways that she's blessed me. I'm like, oh, yeah, like, man, she. She really has been a blessing to me in this way. To the point where you get to that fourth one, you're like, well, you know, man, you know, gently. Just. You're just more prepared to be able to share it in a way that's like, loving, patient, because it matters how you share it as well.

[C]

It. It does.

[A]

The other genius about that question is, it's framed. What's one way I could bless you more? Not, what are you doing wrong? Yeah, where have you sucked this way?

[C]

It's more just about me, like, meeting the need. You know it. Yes.

[B]

Yeah, it's important.

[A]

You got anything else you want to say to that?

[C]

There was something I wanted to say there to. Oh, okay. I want to slip this in, too, about, like, the. Oh, I'm going to say this when I get to that. That point. Like, one huge thing in marriage is just, like, not keeping a record of wrongs. And, you know, God convicted me of this one time. This is like our first year of marriage. And I would just. Prayer journal every time I would get mad at you. And then I realized it clicked. It was like, oh, my goodness, I'm keeping a record of wrongs. So then I, like, tore it all up and shredded it.

[A]

And I remember when you did that.

[C]

And then I. Yeah, I told you. And I, you know, I was like, I'm so sorry. I've been keeping a record of wrongs against you. Will you forgive me? But it's like, you know, that's communication. Just. It just sounds like in this situation, just getting you guys back in a place where you're communicating to one another, not keeping a record of wrongs, praying for one another. There's just. There's so much to. To say here. But go back to those questions. Once you start thinking about the three. Three ways he's blessing you, then you're. You're going to see he is, you know, hopefully he is pouring into your marriage. You know, he's doing something.

[B]

One more thing, Janet, to what you just said, I think, again, I Think this is a verse that. I don't know why we don't hear enough of this, but this is Proverbs 19:11. Good sense makes one slow to anger. And it is the glory of man to overlook an offense.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Not everything that bothers you is worth, you know, making a huge deal about it. Sometimes it's like, yeah, that kind of bothered me. Let me just, let me overlook it.

[C]

Yes, absolutely.

[A]

I would just say real quick. And I mean, you guys are already here on that, but on that question, and it is a frequent question, which is sad. So like, hey, hey, husbands, let's, let's, let's up our game here. You know, one I just. As hard as this is, the Bible does not say, husbands, love your wives as long as she is lovely. And wives, it does not say, respect your husband as long as he is respectable, or honor your husband only if he is honorable. So even sometimes, let's be frank. For some people, parts of their marriage are trials to endure. And the Lord tells us that he will be with us in a trial. And sometimes you're going to need to walk through that trial with the help of Jesus. But remember, you own your responsibility. Your responsibility. God's going to hold you responsible for all of his commands for how you should act in your marriage. And then God will judge him and hold him responsible for whether he did his part. But what you want to do is go, I'm going to be faithful with my part.

[C]

Yeah, I'm sorry, can I.

[A]

You don't have to ask. Just talk.

[C]

So I, like, years ago, I was teach. Teaching something on marriage, and I kind of went through just these different, A lot of this, these checklist things, but also just like really laying into, like respecting your husband and just different things. And we got into sex and all that, like talking about that. But years later, I had two women come and tell me. They were like, I did everything that we talked about during that time, and my husband and I were on the verge of divorce. And I just want you to know we are together and we are happily married now.

[A]

We are all the time.

[C]

And so it's just like, hey, whenever you just listen to the word of God, be led by the spirit and do what he says, like, you know, God is able to, you know, make anything flourish. So there's hope for you.

[A]

Amen.

[B]

We got two more. Briefly.

[A]

Let's do it.

[B]

Lots of people asking questions about boundaries, especially when you're single. The way somebody phrased it is, is it okay to kiss and hold hands when dating, but Then somebody else asked, if men develop intimacy through sex, how do you develop intimacy prior to marriage?

[A]

Which one are we answering? Those are two different questions.

[B]

Let's go with the. Not that one. Let me say, see, go back to trainer. Go back to what we had initially. Yeah. What other types of boundaries should be set besides the obvious of no intimacy before marriage? Let's go there.

[A]

Well, the command is not to lust like man. So, you know, this is a PG11 podcast. I'll say something maybe a little more PG13. For a man, your body has been designed to give you a physical signal when you are lusting. Like when you. When I'll just say it because it's like an anatomical thing, you know, that you are lusting whenever an erection happens. Like that's something you are doing something, thinking something, watching something that is triggering your body's sexual response. So God wired into you a clear signal that something sexual is happening. So honestly, man, you've been given one, one clear, you know, thing there. I think you want to set the line. Like, instead of asking how close can we get to the line, you want to ask the question of like, man, where's the best spot for us to aim so that we know we're going to continue to walk in righteousness? So that's good, you know, ask that question. And then the Bible says to give no opportunity to the flesh. What it means is do not put yourselves in positions where sin is likely to happen. Don't. Don't carve out a little space where you know that if we, if we want to, we could go. It'll happen. And so set some clear boundaries on. Ah, we're not, we're not going to be alone. Even in this passage. I hit this in the sermon. She's like, I wish my man was here. I'm in bed and I wish my man was here. But then they go out and she's like, he's not here. We're not doing that yet. We're not married people yet. And then she goes to her mom's house, they go to the parents house. It's like, oh, I want you to meet my parents. Let's spend time with parents. I want my parents to lay their eyes on you and see what they think. So date in such a way to. As to be in. In environments that protect your integrity. Anything you'd add there?

[B]

Jana, you said before you go there, just recapping. It's not where is the line is when is the time.

[A]

Married, married, married.

[B]

And only temptation in the Bible that You're not supposed to be fighting is sexual temptation. You're supposed to flee from it.

[A]

Flee.

[C]

Yeah. I think that's good.

[A]

That's great.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Awesome. And then somebody. Do you have the. If men develop intimacy through sex, how do you develop intimacy prior to marriage? That's the question.

[A]

Yeah, it's just taken. It's taken something that I've said out of context. You'll notice, like as a preacher, you kind of get used to. Okay, I need to be careful. I need to add this little caveat. What I said in the sermon is, in general. I said, in general, women develop emotional. Emotional connection leads to physical connection. I said, in general, for men, physical connection leads to emotional connection. It's not only. I'm not saying the only way. You're not an automaton. No, it's like, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, man, you want to develop. So here's what I do real quick on this. This is something didn't have time to make in the sermon. The relational structure of a Christian marriage is your Christians first, then your friends, then your spouses. So when you're dating, what you're trying to figure out is, number one, are we going to be in Christians together? Like, does she love Jesus? She walking towards Jesus? Can we act towards each other in righteousness, like a sister and a brother in Christ? Then the second thing you're figuring out the definition of marriage in Song of Solomon. I think it comes in chapter either 5 or 8, where they say, you are my lover, you are my friend. That's the definition of marriage in Song of Solomon. So then after Christians, you're friends. So that's the other thing you're trying to figure out when you're dating is, do we have a really good friendship? Can we talk? Can we have healthy conflict? Can we have fun together? Do we have at least a couple common interests where it's like, oh, we can kind of bond over this. And then last, your spouses. And that's all the headship and submission and sex. And that's that stuff when you're dating, you're establishing the first two levels of intimacy, not the third.

[B]

There you go. That's good. Last one. I thought this was interesting. This is. Somebody said, my husband just became Catholic out of submission to him. Am I called to do the same?

[A]

Oh, am I called to do the same?

[B]

Am I called to become Catholic because the husband became a Catholic?

[A]

No, no, I would say definitely. Definitely not. If you're saying become a Catholic? No, because. And the reason I would say that is Now, I'm going to say a couple. The reason I would say that is one, the Bible says, wives, submit to your own husbands as unto the Lord, or unto the Lord. The implication is that again, for a wife, there's the authority of the husband, but then there's a higher authority over the husband. You know, her husband's her head, but Jesus is her Lord. And when they come in conflict, Lord trumps head. So if the husband ever asks her to do something that Jesus would not ask her to do, she goes, man, I'm really sorry, husband, but I've got a head. And Jesus, my Lord. I think what I would probably counsel a woman to do in that situation is Catholicism has some doctrinal issues that are very important. They are very important. But there's a lot of Catholics as individuals that are on Team Jesus. I think what I would say is, man, maybe you attend mass with him, and man, you glean what you can. You know, you're there to love him. You're supporting the fact that he's trying to follow Jesus too. But you can be frank, like, man, I'm not all in on this stuff, you know, and here's why. And then maybe you guys can agree on a time when maybe, maybe you go one week on, one week off. Hey, one week we're over here, and then, hey, the other week, could we go to my church? Or maybe you find a night of the week, you hit a lake point Saturday service before going, doing the Sunday mass thing. Janet, what would you say there?

[C]

Oh, yeah, that was when I didn't want to answer.

[A]

I don't. Well, you don't have to agree with me.

[C]

I, I don't. I. I don't know what I'd say. I mean, like, with like, you know, complete other religions.

[A]

Definitely not. I mean, we're all out on that. Absolutely not teachings of demons.

[C]

And I think that's why I'm just like, yeah, I don't know with this one.

[B]

I think what you say is good. Here, here's my thing. My. I grew up, I was baptized in, as a baby in the Catholic church. My dad was Catholic, my mom was Baptist. And over time, this is what my dad told me. He was a very devout Catholic. He said that over time, my mom invited my dad to go to the Protestant church or evangelical church. And my dad agreed kind of begrudgingly. But then once he would go there, he would tell everybody, hey, I'm here. Just I want everybody to know I'm a Catholic and I'm a die Catholic. That's what he was like, I'm not going anywhere. But over time, my dad tells me that he thought, man, it's seems like if I go to this church, my kids are going to end up actually following Jesus and it's going to be more likely that's going to happen in this church than if I just take him to Mass. Now, I'm not saying that's true for everybody. I'm just saying that's what my dad realized a long time ago. The Holy Spirit convicted him of that. And then eventually, again, he would say he was a more cultural Catholic at the time. Again, there's all kinds of Catholics. But then eventually he gave himself. He decided that he was going to commit to following Jesus and ended up at the Protestant church and by the grace of God. You know, God did a work in my life as a kid. And so that's kind of, that's helpful putting it out there.

[A]

That's. That's a first Peter 3 story.

[B]

That's what that is.

[C]

That is.

[A]

Hey, speaking of date, Jan and I are going on a date night tonight and our reservation's in eight minutes.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

Would you pray for us.

[A]

Father? Thank you for these men and women, God, I pray that, Lord, I'm just going to pray it. I ask for every single person that wants to be married that you would bring them a godly spouse. Lord, I pray that you do it soon. I pray that very, very soon we see a wave of Christian marriages formed in and around Lake Point. I pray for every married couple that you would reinvigorate. There just be a fresh joy, a fresh life, anointing and grace on the marriages. Loving, gentle, kind, engaged, emotionally accessible husbands and wives that are there respecting their husbands. They delight to honor them. They're physically available and a blessing. I just pray that the marriage would be full of just a joy of love and intimacy that they may have never known before. Lots of new marriages with the same spouses for the glory of God. Amen.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

Thanks for tuning in to Live Free with Pastor Josh Howerton. We pray today's episode helped you take a step forward in life, culture, in faith, as you live free in Christ. If it encouraged you, be sure to rate, review and share the podcast and don't forget to subscribe so you'll never miss an episode. Join us for Lake Pointe Church Online every weekend and find more resources at Lakepoint Church Livefree. We'll see you next time.