Jesus Is Coming Back SOON... But Most Christians Aren't Ready. (ft. John Bevere) | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Summary

Podcast Summary: Live Free with Josh Howerton
Episode: “Jesus Is Coming Back SOON… But Most Christians Aren’t Ready.” (ft. John Bevere)
Release Date: April 15, 2026
Host: Josh Howerton (Lakepointe Church)
Guest: John Bevere

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the urgent topic of Jesus’ second coming, tackling misconceptions, signs pointing to end times, practical theology, and the spiritual posture Christians should maintain. Josh Howerton sits down with author and speaker John Bevere, whose new book, The King Is Coming, explores the last days. They delve deeply into biblical prophecy, how to interpret the times, the power of living in readiness, the dangers of apathy, and practical ways believers can anchor themselves in authentic faith and expectation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why John Bevere Now Teaches on the End Times

• Initial Reluctance: For years, John avoided eschatology because of its divisiveness and the apathy he witnessed it produce.
  • Quote: "I hated what I saw it produced. It produced people arguing… It produced laziness. People stopped paying their credit cards because they were so convinced he was coming back on a certain day." (10:01)
• A Change of Heart: In 2021, the Holy Spirit prompted John to study the second coming in depth.
  • He was surprised to discover it is the second most discussed topic in the Bible and the early church.

Are We in the “Last of the Last Days”?

• Biblical Timeline & Prophecy:
  • Hosea’s prophecy about Israel’s scattering and national revival (04:33–08:22)
    • Diaspora began 70–132 AD; Hosea forecasted national revival “after two days.”
    • “A day with the Lord is as a thousand years” (2 Peter).
    • Israel restored in 1948, Jerusalem recaptured in 1967—within biblical “generation” parameters.
  • Quote: “We live in the generation that Israel has now come back [and] Jerusalem has now come back under Jewish leadership in 1967.” (08:22)
• Emphasis on Season Over Date:
  • “Nobody will know the day or hour, but you said we’d know the generation, we would know the season.” (09:59)

Proper Theology on the End Times

• Dangers of Misapplied Eschatology:
  • Incorrect teaching breeds apathy or argument; correct teaching stirs urgency.
  • Quote: “If eschatology is preached correctly, it produces urgency.” (11:57)
• The Purpose of End Times Teaching:
  • Not about “blood moons and tsunamis,” but readiness—living as a prepared bride for Christ (13:43–14:46)
  • Wedding as metaphor: Preparation is more important than merely knowing the date.

Eager Expectation and Its Transformative Power

• Biblical Mandate:
  • The New Testament repeatedly commands believers to “eagerly await” Christ’s return (Luke 12, 1 Corinthians 1:7, 2 Timothy, Hebrews 9).
  • “Prostectomy”—the Greek word for remaining in a state of expectancy (21:07–22:48)
    • Quote: “When we are eagerly expecting his coming, it gives us a power to walk in holiness that we don’t necessarily have when we don’t.” (31:58)
• Practical Impact:
  • Living with eager expectation brings urgency for evangelism, holiness, and faithfulness.
  • Those who set their minds on the return of Christ are empowered to resist sin (pornography, substance use, etc.): “Have you put off the Lord’s coming in your heart? Do you ever wonder why it’s so hard for you to stay away from pornography?... The Lord could want me home tomorrow… I live like he’s coming back today.” (00:00, 34:20)

The Role of “The Fear of God”

• Love of Jesus isn’t enough; the fear of the Lord brings an intimate relationship and power to avoid evil.
• Personal anecdotes (e.g., John’s conversation with Jim Bakker in prison) illustrate the difference between loving God and fearing Him. (25:26–28:54)
  • Quote (Jim Bakker): “There are millions of Americans like me. They love Jesus, but they have no fear of God.” (28:03)

Approaching Prophecy: Mystery and Clarification

• Some prophecies are intentionally mysterious—so that demonic powers cannot thwart God’s plan (16:51–20:45).
• The Essenes, a lesser-known Jewish sect, accurately predicted the Messiah’s arrival through careful scriptural study, contrasting with the Pharisees who missed him despite their knowledge.

Interpreting Key Prophecies and Timelines

• Pre-Tribulation Rapture Stance (John’s View):
  • Believes the church (“the bride”) will not experience God’s wrath (the Tribulation), supported by passages in Isaiah, 1 Thessalonians, and Revelation.
  • The “restrainer” in 2 Thessalonians refers to the Holy Spirit’s work through the church. Once the church is “caught up,” evil will flood the earth. (43:19)
• Timeline of Final Events (John’s Outline, 47:28):
  • Catching away of the church (rapture).
  • The lawless one (Antichrist) is revealed; confirms covenant with many.
  • Midway through a seven-year period: Antichrist breaks covenant, institutes idol worship (“abomination of desolation”).
  • Three-and-a-half years of “great tribulation”—intense persecution (Zechariah: up to 2/3 of Jews killed).
  • The nations rally against Jerusalem; Christ returns and defeats them.
  • Millennium: 1,000-year reign (natural and glorified bodies coexisting).
  • Satan loosed, final rebellion, final judgment.

Dual Fulfillment of Prophecy

• Some prophecies—like Jesus’ reference to Elijah—have both a near (first coming) and far (second coming) fulfillment. (52:12–54:56)

Modern Delusion, Islam, and Antichrist Parallels

• Strong Delusion: In the last days, people reject truth and God gives them over to believe lies (2 Thessalonians 2)—seen in secular and religious alliances hostile to Christianity.
• Islamic Eschatology & The Mahdi:
  • Striking similarities between the Quranic Mahdi and the biblical Antichrist.
  • Islamic end times teaching: Mahdi comes during chaos, rules 7 years, creates world government, wages war against Israel, rides a white horse—mirroring Antichrist in Revelation. (61:18–62:47)
  • John concurs: “Everything you’ve just said is absolutely accurate… It is delusion.” (65:28)
• End Times Alliances Against Israel: All nations listed in Ezekiel 38, except parts of Russia, are today Islamic nations. (63:36–65:28)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Fear of the Lord & Holiness:
  • Jim Bakker’s admission (28:03): “There are millions of Americans like me. They love Jesus, but they have no fear of God.”
• On End Times Preaching:
  • “If eschatology is preached incorrectly, it creates apathy, laziness, and argument. If it’s preached correctly, it produces urgency.” (11:57)
• On Eager Expectation:
  • “When we are eagerly expecting His coming, it gives us a power to walk in holiness that we don’t necessarily have when we don’t.” (31:58)
• On Living Prepared:
  • “I live like He’s coming back today, but I plan like He’s not coming back for 200 years.” (34:20)
• On Today’s Spiritual Delusion:
  • “The most interesting thing... is why are universities like this? It is a delusion.” (67:34)
• Psalm 2 in NLT: “Free us from slavery to God...” (67:34–68:31)

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Important Timestamps

• Signs of the times: Are we in the last of the last days? — 04:30–09:55
• Why prophecy matters and how it affects us spiritually — 09:59–14:49
• The Essenes, Simeon, Anna, and what it means to be eagerly waiting — 17:14–22:48
• Fear of God vs. Love of Jesus: Jim Bakker’s story — 25:23–28:54
• Transformative Power of Eager Expectation — 29:27–31:58
• Pre-trib rapture, timeline of events, and practical implications — 35:18–49:49
• Prophetic duality (preterism, partial fulfillment) — 50:34–54:56
• Islamic eschatology parallels — 61:18–65:28
• The strong delusion and cultural blindness — 66:41–68:31
• Rapid fire listener questions — 71:11–74:03

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Rapid Fire Listener Q&A Highlights

• Abomination of Desolation: Antichrist breaks treaty with Israel, stops sacrifices, sets up idol, claims to be God. (71:36)
• Opposition to Israel: The spirit of Antichrist; God’s love for Israel remains. (72:00)
• Avoiding False Prophets: Examine their lives, not just their words. Know the true by knowing the genuine. (72:48)
• Fear of Christ’s Return: You’re not a bad Christian—it means you’ve likely been incorrectly taught. Proper teaching frames it as the “wedding of the ages”—something to anticipate with hope. (73:39)

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Closing

Key Takeaway:
The urgency of Jesus’ return isn’t about calculating dates but fueling devotion, anticipation, and action. Living “ready” purifies the heart, empowers for outreach, and helps resist sin. The conversation reminds listeners that the Bible urges expectancy—not anxiety—and that the greatest preparation is a vibrant, holy, loving relationship with Christ.

Final Blessing:
John Bevere closes the podcast praying that the episode would spur excitement, anticipation, and faith in listeners, and that all would know Christ more deeply. (75:10)

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Transcript

[John Bevere]

Have you put off the Lord's coming in your heart? Do you ever wonder why it's so hard for you to stay away from pornography? Do you ever wonder why it's so hard for you to stay away from that substance? The Lord could want me home tomorrow. He could want me home tonight. Here's what I firmly believe. I live like he's coming back today.

[Live Free Nation Host]

Well, hey, Live Free Nation. Before we jump into the episode, this podcast is recorded right here at Lake Pointe Church in Dallas, Texas. But the Live Free Nation is spread all over the country and all around the world. So if you've been watching and thinking, man, I wish I could be part of something like this. We want to invite you to take a simple next step, and that is join us for Church Online. Every weekend, we stream our services live on YouTube, Facebook and our church online platform. And it's more than just watching a service. There are live hosts in the chat, prayer teams ready to stand with you, and people all around the world worshiping together in real time. And so whether you're exploring the faith, coming back to church, or just looking for a place to start, church Online is a great way to jump in and experience what God is doing here at Lake Pointe. We would love to see you in the chat this weekend and now enjoy the podcast.

[Josh Hart]

John Bevere. Welcome to Live Free.

[John Bevere]

It's great to be with you, Pastor Josh.

[Josh Hart]

Dude, you know, I know we just said this. I've wanted to meet you for, like, years. Can I give you a backstory on why?

[John Bevere]

Yes, I'd love to hear why.

[Josh Hart]

Okay, so I'll talk about this in a second. I didn't grow up in sort of charismatic, spirit filled world. That's not. Not what I grew up in. So my buddy Ryan Visconti. That is amazing. Everybody should be listening to Pastor Ryan Visconti.

[John Bevere]

I love Rya Ryan.

[Josh Hart]

He's amazing. He's one of the best pastors in state of Arizona.

[John Bevere]

Agreed.

[Josh Hart]

So it's like, it's probably like, honestly, it's probably like, when did you write undercover?

[John Bevere]

The year 2000.

[Josh Hart]

Okay. So actually it was probably that year. Okay. And he was like, hey, man, you got to read this book. God just altered some things in my soul. So I read it on vacation. And then when did you start preaching your awe of God sermons?

[John Bevere]

Okay, that started in 1994, but when I wrote the book was in 2022.

[Josh Hart]

Okay. Well, for listeners, what we're getting ready to talk about is, is your. Your book that just released on the second coming of Christ, which is mind blowing. Let me just say that. So we're gonna go there, but I'm. I'm on vacation in. We took our kids to the beach, and I had never heard a jamba of your sermon. And Visconti sends me one of your awe of God sermons. I'm doing a little workout, and, dude, you tell this story about. And I'll get the details wrong, where you're, like, preaching in a stadium, and essentially, you have an awareness that there is little fear of God, no fear of God, no fear of God in the room. And what you did to confront that moment, we don't gotta go there. But honestly, man, it just reverberated with me so deeply. I put down the weights, walked to a corner of the little workout room. I started sweating and just repented. And ever since then, I've been following you. And so I'm glad you're here.

[John Bevere]

Wow. I'm so honored to be here. And, you know, I absolutely love your program. And I have kind of a dad's heart. And so when I see young men like you just blowing it up and staying with truth, but loving people both, it just makes my heart so happy. That's why I was so excited to meet you today. I'm a. I'm a little fanboying right now.

[Josh Hart]

Well, I'm just happy to be called young again.

[John Bevere]

That's good. Listen, I turn 67 next month. I know I feel like I'm 35, but I do realize, you know, it's so funny. I'm going to a lot of churches, and I'm going to all these churches. I'm like, why am I older than this guy? So I just recently went to a church. The pastor was one year older than me, and he's another 1 the Acts 35. And he's been in ministry for 50 years. And I said so nice to stand up on a platform and say that I'm younger than the pastor, and everybody just cracked up. That's awesome, man.

[Josh Hart]

All right, well, here's the deal. I want to talk about this book, the King is Coming. And this week, I just finished preaching on Second Coming Christ. A bunch of stuff here. And there's, as you know, there's. You can't fit a hundredth of what you need to in a sermon. You just can't do it.

[John Bevere]

No.

[Josh Hart]

All right, so let me just dive right in you, and we can take this wherever you want, but I want to start right here. You believe that not only, you know, the Bible kind of differentiates between kind of Three phrases, sometimes last days, end times, and then sort of end of end times. You believe that we're in the last of the last days?

[John Bevere]

Absolutely, without a doubt.

[Josh Hart]

Let's start right here. Tell me why.

[John Bevere]

Because Jesus said that generation will not pass until all these things come to true. You also look at the timelines. God's never laid on the timelines. If you look at the book of Jose, it's remarkable. God talks about what he was going to do to Israel, how he was going to come and tear and rend them, and they were sent to every nation of the world. This happened between 70 A.D. and 132 A.D. i think it was 132. The Bar Koba rebellion was the last rebellion of Israel. Rome had basically, I mean, killed all of the Jews or sent them to slavery. And the ones that were smart got out and they went to all the nations of the world. If you look at that, it says, after two days, he will revive us. Us Is Israel now a day with the Lord? Peter said there's going to be scoffers, mockers that come up in the last days, going to say, hey, come on. Ever since the fathers fell asleep, everything remains the same as from creation. Well, first of all, atheists don't call church fathers fathers, and atheists don't call creation creation. They call it evolution. So Peter is talking about people in the church are actually going to say man. In the 12th century, they said he was coming. The 14th century said he was coming. Da, da, da, da, da da.

[Josh Hart]

Interesting. Well, wait, I've never thought about that before. You think that Peter passage is referring to Christians scoffing?

[John Bevere]

I do.

[Josh Hart]

Okay, you keep going.

[John Bevere]

I never thought about that. Okay. Because atheists don't call creation creation.

[Josh Hart]

Interesting.

[John Bevere]

They don't call church fathers fathers. All right, okay. So it would come to a point where they would say, everything's the same, nothing's changing. I'm the pan theology. Everything will just pan out. That's not the way they were with the first coming. And I'll get to that in a moment, if you ask me. But if you look at this, he said, you must not forget this one thing. What is it? We're not to forget a day with the Lord's a thousand years and a thousand years is a day. Now, in my Bible reading this morning, Exodus 19, God said to Moses, tell them to go wash their clothes, because after two days, I'm coming down on the mountain. So you see this? Remember Jesus said, I cast out demons today and tomorrow and third day, I'm perfected. So there's a lot in scripture about two days. Okay? That's 2000 years. We know for sure that Jesus was crucified 32 or 33 AD. Now there is the ancient Jewish calendar, There is the modern day Jewish calendar. There is the Gregorian calendar. I'm not going to take the time to explain all of that, but I'm going to tell you this. We're two days after His. His crucifixion, roughly 2,000 years. 2070-75 will be 2,000 years that Israel was plummeted. Now Hosea makes this amazing statement. After two days, he'll revive us. Who's us? The Jewish people. Now remember when Paul said, the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled, all of Israel will be saved. All right? After two days, he'll revive us. On the third day, he'll raise us up to live in his sight. That's the thousand year reign of Jesus Christ. But then he makes this statement in the next verse. He said, let us know and let us pursue the knowledge, knowing God intimately because his going forth is. Is established as the sunrise. Now Josh, I know the sun's going to come up at the given time every single morning. Like the sun didn't just say, oh, I'm going to come up at 11:30am this morning in Dallas, Texas. It didn't happen. It came up at the exact time. So what God is saying in the book of Hosea is, my going forth to revive my people is established as the morning. And so we're looking at this. We live in the generation that Israel has now come back. Excuse me, Jerusalem has now come back under the Jewish leadership in 1967.

[Josh Hart]

So wait, Israel was re established as a nation in 1948? Jerusalem didn't come back under their leadership until 67. Yeah, that's okay.

[John Bevere]

If you look at what Jesus said, he said, Jerusalem will be trampled down by the Gentiles until the time of the gentiles is fulfilled. So really the key indicator is not Israel, it's Jerusalem.

[Josh Hart]

Interesting.

[John Bevere]

And when they got that, that was what, almost 50 years ago. So if you look at a generation, Nelson's Bible dictionary says a generation is a group of people that lived on the earth at a set time. So if you look at today, there's a few World War II vets that are still alive. World War II is 1940-45. Right now they were probably 15 years old when they started. So if you look at it, that was a hundred year. They're 100 years old. So you can safely say, because you see generations represented as 40, 70 and 100 years in the Bible, you can safely say it's 100 years. If you look at what Jesus says, 67. Jerusalem now is back under the rule of Jewish people. You go 100 years, you're at 2067. So if you also look at the two day of Peter, you're also around 2075 when Israel was torn by Titus. So I really safely can say, and I, believe me, I avoided this subject for years.

[Josh Hart]

Me too.

[John Bevere]

I wouldn't talk about it very frankly.

[Josh Hart]

Me too.

[John Bevere]

But. And there's a reason for that. But we are in that window. I believe that we can safely say, according to Jesus, that we're in that generation.

[Josh Hart]

But John, the Bible says no one will know the day or the hour.

[John Bevere]

Correct.

[Josh Hart]

So why.

[John Bevere]

But you said we'd know the generation, we would know the season. And here's what I found out. And the reason I stayed away from the second coming in eschatology is because I hated what I saw. It produced. It produced people arguing pre, post, mid. It produced laziness. People stopped paying their credit cards because they were so convinced he was coming back on a certain day.

[Josh Hart]

Right.

[John Bevere]

And what happened was people asked me for four decades, don't you preach on the second coming? And I said, no, I'm not called to. That's because I didn't like the fruit I saw and I didn't want to become lose a group of people that I felt like God had called me to minister to. Well, what happened was in 2021, the Holy Spirit started dealing with me personally. He said, son, I want you to start studying this. I didn't spend hundreds, I spent thousands of hours studying the second coming. What I discovered was significant. It's the second most talked about subject in the entire Bible.

[Josh Hart]

Only salvation is more honestly. Let me pause and highlight what John is saying with a verbal highlighter. It is stunning how much ink is spilled in the Bible on the second coming. It's going to take a pair of scissors to get away from that reality. So if we want to have the same emphasis that the Bible has, we got to lean in. I'm sorry, you keep going.

[John Bevere]

No, no. So first three centuries of the church is the second most written about subject by the church fathers.

[Josh Hart]

Interesting.

[John Bevere]

All right, so one out of every 30 verses in the New Testament is on the second coming of Jesus. So this is what went through this, this head of mine. Why would God talk about this so much? And why aren't I talking about this? And What I realized, what I feared didn't happen, so I thought it would make me lazy. But think about it, Josh. When you're running a 5k, that's 5,000 meters, when do you run the fastest? The last hundred meters.

[Josh Hart]

That's right.

[John Bevere]

The finish line.

[Josh Hart]

Oh, bro, that's a great point.

[John Bevere]

Okay, so here we go. I started realizing when eschatology, which. Guys, that's a big theological word. It just means study of end times. If it's preached incorrectly or heard incorrectly, it creates apathy, laziness, and argument. If it's preached correctly, it produces urgency.

[Josh Hart]

Fascinating.

[John Bevere]

And I personally saw this in my own life because I love souls. I have always loved doing altar calls, but I started weeping in my morning prayers. 2023, 2024, I found myself just wee. And one morning, I just came home with tears in my eyes. I said, lisa, because I always pray outside. I said, lisa, I just want to win souls. I just want to do altar calls. I just want to win souls. And she was like, okay, okay, okay. And my family started saying, dad, you've changed. And I said, what do you mean? You don't get upset as easily, okay? Because I'm very intense. And so sometimes I was too intense with my boys, and they all love me and they forgive me. And I always say, I'm sorry I said that. I said that. I didn't say that with the tone. I should have said it, you know? Anyway, my wife started calling me my favorite husband. Okay? Lisa started saying, you're my favorite husband. So finally, I just threw up my arms. I said, what is that supposed to mean? And she goes, well, I like this 2.0 version better than the 1.0 version. And I realized the fruit of this is accurate if it's preached correctly. And really, the second coming, Josh, isn't about dates and timelines, blood moons and tsunamis. It's more about being ready. And that's the real emphasis of this. Because if you look at a wedding, my wife and I were separated for two months. She went up to Indiana. I stayed in Dallas, by the way, we lived here in Dallas when we first got married. We lived over in Grapevine, Salt Lake area.

[Josh Hart]

Totally.

[John Bevere]

Okay, so. And she went up there to prepare. And I'm telling you that two months was like two years. A day seemed like a week. A week seemed like a year. Because I was so excited about our wedding, right? But she had to prepare for it. She worked 40 hours a week just to get ready for that one day event. And so, yes, I had to know where the church was and what the time of the wedding is. That took all of 10 to 30 minutes. What took months was us getting ready for this event. And you see, most people see. Most people see the Second coming as an event. It's not an event. It's the marriage of the ages. It is a bridegroom who's so in love with his bride, just waiting for his dad to say, go get your girl. And it's all about us who's. We're lovesick bride bridesmaids just waiting for our groom to come and get us. And we want as many people involved as possible. That's why we're so urgent and doing what you're doing and your team is doing and that is telling people the word of God and getting people to fall in love with Jesus.

[Josh Hart]

Okay, let me.

[John Bevere]

I know I've said a lot.

[Josh Hart]

No, that's fantastic. That's why I wanted you on. So let me. I'm like you generally. Honestly, man, this is a confession. Eschatology has probably been my least favorite of the eight primary ologies to study. You know, and I just kind of get in. I'm like, man, you know, Amil, pre mill, post, you know, all the pants, all the things. All the things. And then let me toss something at you that has made me generally averse in the past towards really leaning in on trying to understand especially things like timelines of events. Okay, so this is. This is First Corinthians, whereas obviously you got First Coming, Second Coming, right? First Corinthians, it's 1 Corinthians 2. It talks about. I'm going to read it. So it talks about. It's referring to the first coming of Christ. No, we declare God's wisdom a mystery that's been hidden and a God destined for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age understood it, obviously. Talking about demonic principalities and powers. None of the rulers of this age understood it. For if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. Now, here's how I think about this. It's okay if you disagree with me, is that in some ways the prophecies about the first coming of Jesus, it seems like this passage saying were in some ways intentionally vague so that mysteries, mysteries, so that at least demonic principalities and powers, they could not have read those prophecies and gone, oh, we know when it's going to happen. We know exactly in what order. And this is the big one. We know the purpose of the events because it says if they had they wouldn't have crucified Jesus. How I think about this sometimes is that some of the prophecies about the second coming are probably similar where it's like they're intentionally vague so that demonic principalities and powers don't understand when, how, exactly, in what order. Because if they did, they wouldn't kind

[John Bevere]

of let the chess pieces get where

[Josh Hart]

they needed to get. What do you think about that?

[John Bevere]

So it's interesting. I felt the Holy Spirit led me back to the first coming of Jesus because was there ambiguity? Yes. Was there mockery? Yes. Was there controversy? Yes. And I felt like he said, go back and find out who got it right and who got it wrong and then bring that into the second coming. So if you look at who got it wrong, it's so easy. Pharisees, they could quote the first five of the book books of the Bible from memory.

[Josh Hart]

Right.

[John Bevere]

But they can't recognize the Son of God when he's raising the dead. God manifests in the flesh. But this is something that's interesting. So, yes, it was a mystery. The why was a mystery. But there's a group of people that we have discovered from the Dead Sea Scrolls that the Bible doesn't talk about much. And they were called the Essenes.

[Josh Hart]

The Essenes, that's right. Yep.

[John Bevere]

Now, the Essenes, why did they form? Because they saw the corruption in the spiritual leadership in Israel. So 150 years before Jesus was born, they started the community of Qumran.

[Josh Hart]

Have you been out there?

[John Bevere]

I wanted to go so bad.

[Josh Hart]

Dude, it's awesome.

[John Bevere]

I was out there, but didn't realize what I was where I was at.

[Josh Hart]

I threw a rock into one of the caves.

[John Bevere]

It's pretty cool.

[Josh Hart]

I wanted to find some more Dead Sea Scrolls.

[John Bevere]

So These guys predicted 150 years before Jesus was born, the very week he would ride in Jerusalem on the donkey. What? Be very weak. Not kidding.

[Josh Hart]

I've never heard that.

[John Bevere]

And his execution.

[Josh Hart]

Really?

[John Bevere]

Yes. And they did it through the prophet Daniel, through the prophet Zechariah and the other church. Early church Jewish father. Excuse me, the early Jewish father's writings. So a lot of people believe that John the Baptist was in a scene. Remember he was in the deserts? Yes. Okay. They believe Mary was in a scene. They also marry Mary, the mother of Jesus.

[Josh Hart]

Really?

[John Bevere]

So the Essene, they were out in the desert.

[Josh Hart]

Why do people think that?

[John Bevere]

I've never heard that There are some Bibles, because they've not proven it, but they strongly believe it.

[Josh Hart]

Interesting.

[John Bevere]

But here's the really cool one. Almost all Bible scholars believe Simeon was an esteem ascene.

[Josh Hart]

Interesting.

[John Bevere]

So now I'm. Now, now remember you said it was a mystery, right? So the why, the understanding of how important the crucifixion was, was hidden, but they were able to. To know the details.

[Josh Hart]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

All right. Does that make sense? So I'm not confused.

[Josh Hart]

The why you're kind of going, hey man, the why was why is the wisdom. The what wasn't necessarily because what you

[John Bevere]

just read is the wisdom.

[Josh Hart]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

Was kept away. But the Essenes knew he was going to be executed. They knew it interesting. Before he was born. Interesting. So now here's. Let me set this up. So here's this guy Simeon and you got this young couple that's in their late teens, early twenties, Joseph and Mary. They come from another state, so they come from Oklahoma, down to Texas. Okay. Just modernize it. Galilee, down to Judea. They go into the temple area. Now what a lot of people, they think the temple area is like our modern day cathedrals. The temple area was not a building, it was buildings. Herod greatly enhanced it and there were crowds of people in that every single day. Here comes this young couple with a 40 day old baby. And this guy Simeon, who's in a scene, does a beeline, holds up at the 40 day old baby and cries out the Messiah and blows Mary's mind.

[Josh Hart]

Dude, I'm connecting. Where you're going, you keep going.

[John Bevere]

Okay, so here's these guys that can quote Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus. Can you imagine if they made us quote from memory? Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in Acts before we could become pastors or ministers. I mean, these guys were dedicated, but they can't recognize God manifest in the flesh when he's raising the dead at 30 years of age. Here's a guy who recognizes the Messiah when he's 40 days old as a baby. Jeez.

[Josh Hart]

Wow.

[John Bevere]

Okay. So I said, all right. So the Holy Spirit was like, find out about this guy. Well, there's only one verse and that's 2:25 Luke 2:25. It says there was a man in Jerusalem named Simeon who is righteous, devout, and was eagerly waiting for the coming of Messiah. Okay, now I'm going to. I'm going to. I'm going to break this down. Can I do it? Can I have a little time to do it?

[Josh Hart]

This is awesome.

[John Bevere]

Righteous means what he operated out of constitutionally, just character means he took obeying God seriously. Devout means to fear God. Devout means one who took the word of God seriously. It carried the reverence of God but this is the one that's really interesting. He was eagerly waiting for the coming of Messiah. That's the Greek word, prostectomy. Prostectomy means to remain, not visit, remain in a state of expectancy. All right, now, Simeon, after he's done prophesying over this baby. All right, to the parents, a woman comes up who's been fasting and praying for 80 years, named Anna. She picks up the baby, and she speaks about the baby to not everybody in the temple area, only everyone who is eagerly awaiting the coming of Messiah. And it's the same Greek word, prostectomy. Now fast forward to Luke 12. Jesus is teaching us how to be ready and recognize his second coming. Do you know what he says to us? It mirrors Simeon. He said, stay dressed for service. We know if you're not. If you're not suited up, you can't go on a football field. So you don't just. You don't quick get dressed at the last moment. You stay dressed for service, keep your lamps burning, remember the parable of virgins, and you be like men who are eagerly waiting for your master to come. Now, I put eagerly in. I added that. And the reason is it's the Greek word prostectomy. What I didn't realize until last year, Josh, if my sons were sitting at the table with us right now, and you said, what's your dad's favorite book? My oldest son would laugh and say, the Bible. I mean, I love reading the Bible. I've read the Bible for 46 years, and I never noticed how many times we are told to eagerly expect the coming of Jesus until just last year.

[Josh Hart]

Can I. Can I just pause for a moment? Let me pause for our listeners.

[John Bevere]

I talk so fast.

[Josh Hart]

I'm gonna honor you. And, you know, it's a. You know, everybody listens the pod, but I'm a man, and so I like to especially speak to our men. One of the reasons I wanted this guy on the podcast is, this is who you wanna be when you. He loves the Lord. He walks in faithfulness and devotion to the Lord. His children love him and love Jesus and his wife does, too. We were talking about this off air before the pod. You know, it's kind of like the older I get, it's like, I don't really care how big your church is, I'll travel across land and sea to learn from you. If you got adult kids that love you and love Jesus and that's who you are. So let me just pause and say this is. That's that's why I wanted you here.

[John Bevere]

That is the reward of the person who fears God. Psalm 112 says, his children will be mighty on the earth. If you look. If you look at Max Jukes and you look at Jonathan Edwards, I'm sure you've done that.

[Josh Hart]

I just used that form of illustration.

[John Bevere]

Okay, you see Jonathan Edwards, his offspring, they were mighty on the earth. If you look at Max Jukes, they were murderers, they were brothel keepers, they were prostitutes. When you fear God, things fall into place. This is why Jesus delighted in the fear of the Lord. He delighted in it. Think about it. Over wisdom, over knowledge, over might, over counsel, over understanding. His delight was in the fear of God. Paul the Apostle tells us that our salvation is matured through fear and trembling, not love and kindness. Now, don't get me wrong. God doesn't have love. He is love. But I love what Oswald Chambers said. Oswald Chambers said, when we preach the love of God, there is a danger that we forget that God doesn't first of all reveal himself in Scripture as a loving God, but as a holy God. And he reveals his blazing holiness. But in the center of that holiness is his love for us. And so when, when, when what? I didn't realize because this is going back to what so. So. Ah. Of God. The book I wrote is. Is part one, but this is part two. So this is really like, interesting. Okay, so the. So. So when I take. When I go back to the awe of God. I stood in front of one of the most well known ministers on the planet. I sat across the table, just like you and I, in a federal penitentiary. He had the largest ministry in the world in 1980s. CNN covered his trial every single night.

[Josh Hart]

Swaggered.

[John Bevere]

No, it was, it was Jim Baker.

[Josh Hart]

That's right.

[John Bevere]

CNN covered his trial every single night. And I was a jerk because I sat there and got. He deserves this. I mean, I was a jerk. And what happens? He reads the first book that I wrote in prison and he asked, calls his assistant from prison, said, would this man come and Visit me? He's 25 years older than me. He walks in and I'm looking at the most famous person on the planet for the wrong reasons because CNN had

[Josh Hart]

him on every night and my generation and down. That deal was like as big as Epstein.

[John Bevere]

Yes. I've never met him. And he walks out and he grabs me and hugs me and won't let me go. Josh. He hugs me for like a minute. Then he puts his hands on my shoulders and he said, did you really write this book. I said, yes, sir, I did. He said, we have so much to talk about. We only have 90 minutes. We sit down, I'm looking at him across the table like this, and he looks at me and he goes, john, this prison is in God's judgment on my life. I looked at him, he goes, it's his mercy. If I would have continued to live the way I lived, I would have ended up in the lake of fire, forever separated from God.

[Josh Hart]

Wow.

[John Bevere]

I'm like all my. All of a sudden, now I want to go in the corner and repent like crazy for all the thoughts I had, right? So he starts telling me his whole story. He said, the first year of prison, God sent a man in here. And the man got all the junk out of my life. And he said, john, I was wicked. He got all the wickedness out of me. He said, we do a Bible study in this prison and we spend three hours a day in the Word of God. Three hours. I said, well, you lead it, right? And he goes, never. He said, I was such a manipulator, I was such a controller. I'm not touching it. Another guy does it. So he gets done with the story. 20 minutes into it, I'm this young 35 year old minister and I want to know how I don't end up in his position in 25 years. I said, I watched you weep when you did altar calls. You had the largest ministry in the world. When did you fall out of love with Jesus? He goes, I didn't. I remember all my walls went up. And I said, what are you talking about? You committed adultery with blank in 1983. You were prosecuted starting in 1988. You just said you had all this wickedness in you. What do you mean you didn't fall out of love with Jesus? He said, john, I loved him all the way through it. Now he sees confusion on my face. He looks at me and goes, john, I didn't fear God.

[Josh Hart]

What?

[John Bevere]

He said, there are millions of Americans like me. They love Jesus, but they have no fear of God. Josh, that was the beginning. That is when God started me on the journey. I've got to know what is the fear of the Lord. And what I found out is Proverbs 1:7 says, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. What knowledge is it the beginning of? It tells us in 2, 5, the beginning of knowing him intimately. Psalm 25:14 says, intimate friendship with the Lord is reserved for those who fear him. With them he shares the secrets. Now, I'm understanding this is why Jesus delighted in it. Because this, it was the fear of the Lord that caused him to go through Gethsemane to. To push through the sweats, the drops of blood. Because by the fear of the Lord, one departs from evil, not by the love of God.

[Josh Hart]

Wow, that was a. The best parenthetical conversation I've ever had in a book. So I will just say my eyes are sweating just hearing you talk about it. That book, awe of God, like, rearranged some things inside of me. And for anybody that's listening, we're going to keep talking about second coming. King is coming. That's one that's worth it. So anyway, do you remember even where you were when I interrupted you?

[John Bevere]

Yeah, my bad, dude.

[Josh Hart]

Keep going.

[John Bevere]

You keep going. No, no, no.

[Josh Hart]

Do your thing.

[John Bevere]

First of all, this is your pod. You have not interrupted me. I'm here to serve you. Okay, so. Okay. But the thing that really gets me is the eagerly expecting. So I start going through with the New Testament and I realize it's all over. Paul says, the Corinthian Church, 1:7, 1 Corinthians 1:7. As you eagerly wait for the coming second coming of Jesus, he says to Timothy in second Timothy, the crown of righteousness is not only for me, but for everyone who is eagerly waiting. Hebrews chapter 9 says, Christ will come again not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to those who are eagerly waiting. Now, I could give more, but I'm not going to. Why is this so important? And first of all, what causes you to be eagerly expecting? Okay, Think about your engagement. Okay? Why did that two months seem like two years? Because if you got around me for just five minutes and you gave me an opening. I'm talking about my fiance. I am so in love with that girl. And I'm still so in love with her. Right? So I'm talking about it. I'm talking about my wedding day because I am so excited. When you're a kid, five years old, and your parents put up the Christmas decorations, that's all you talk about for 30 days. Okay, so why is eager expectation so important? First of all, how do we keep our eager expectation? Paul says it to set our sights on the realities of heaven, not the things of the earth. I'll show you this. Philippians, chapter 3, verse 18, 19, 20. You know what Paul said? There are many. And I say it. Weeping, whose behavior shows this is new living translation. Whose behavior shows that their eyes are set on the things of the earth. This is what you have to ask yourself. You know, when my eyes are set on the road, when I was driving here today, this Roy Hubbard lake. Oh, my gosh, what a beautiful lake. I'm just sitting there going like this, but my eyes kept going back to the road where they were set. If it's zero degrees outside and you open up your front door, Your house drops 20 degrees, but you close the front door, goes back to where it's set. So the question you have to ask yourself is when your mind's not required on the task before you, so you're not hitting a pickleball shot, you're not sitting across the table looking at Josh Hart.

[Josh Hart]

We're.

[John Bevere]

Where does your thoughts go? They'll go to where they're set. So do your thoughts go to. How many clicks did I have on my post yesterday? The World cup soccer that's coming up or the NBA playoffs that are coming? Just ask yourself, where does your mind go? That's where your. That's where your mind set.

[Josh Hart]

That's great.

[John Bevere]

So why is this so important? Why? Because John the apostle who actually saw the whole book of Revelation, writes, jesus is going to appear. And when he does, we're going to see him as he is. And all who have this eager expectation will purify themselves even as he is pure. When we are eagerly expecting his coming, it gives us a power to walk in holiness that we don't necessarily have. When we don't. Because if you remember, Jesus talks in all of Matthew 24. He talks about the wars, the rumors of wars, the famines, the pestilence, right? Then he says this parable. If that servant says in his heart, my master delays his coming, he begins to party, beat his fellow servants and get drunk. How do you beat your fellow servants? You make ridiculous comments on their post. You gossip about them, you slander them. How do you party and get drunk? You yield to the dictates of the flesh. Now, let's go back to what Peter said, what we quoted earlier. He said, most importantly, I spent a whole year on second Peter, three little chapters on my podcast, and I get to chapter three, and he says, most importantly, I'm like, I just spent nine months talking about the first two chapters. What is most important? Know this. Scoffers are going to come in the last day saying, where's the promise of his coming forever since the Father, Right? There's a statement I just dropped out of there that I'm going to add back in. Scoffers will come walking according to their own desires. In other words, they've put off the coming of the Lord. They don't have the power to purify themselves as he is pure. So I ask men, do you ever wonder why it's so hard for you to stay away from pornography? Do you ever wonder why it's so hard for you to stay away from that substance? Have you put off the Lord's coming in your heart? See, to be really honest with you, Josh, the Lord could want me home tomorrow. He could want me home tonight. That doesn't mean he's coming in the clouds. But I here's what I firmly believe. I live like he's coming back today, but I plan like he's not coming back for 200 years. I know what my grandson's going to do. He's going to Oxford. He's going to get a law degree. We are planning for messenger for generations to come. But I'm living like he's coming back today.

[Josh Hart]

Okay, so you know, there are. I want to emphasize something you said at the beginning and you alluded to it even just now, is that when they start beating their fellow servants and that's the kind of deal where it's like you get these Christians who are, they're more interested in fighting with other Christians than they are actually accomplishing a great commission. You know, it's demonic, it's not good, man. And very frankly, eschatological views is one of those things that people can do that on. You know, you got Bible believing Christians, man. Faithful Bible believing Christians can have a couple different views here. You know, you got your, we covered this earlier in the podcast. You kind of got, you know, dispensational premill, historic premill, George Ladd. You kind of got, you know, especially reform crowd. That's kind of the team I came out of that. You got a lot of amillennial views. There's you know, every now and you find a little post mill dude. But I want to hear, you know, how you view this. So real quick, would you mind giving me just a quick overview of your timeline from now to the end? What events in one order.

[John Bevere]

You're really going to put me on the spot. First of all, that's a 28 chapter book and five chapters are spent because I realized I didn't want to talk about it.

[Josh Hart]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

So I make this really clear. Here's my view. My wife doesn't even agree with me. And we, and we joke.

[Josh Hart]

I love that.

[John Bevere]

I love about it.

[Josh Hart]

I love it. That's fine.

[John Bevere]

And so you'll never ever, ever get me to argue about this, yeah. But to me the scripture shows so clearly that the bride is not going through the wrath of God.

[Josh Hart]

So, preacher of rapture, Pre tribulation rapture.

[John Bevere]

I firmly believe it because there are several reasons. Number one, if you look at Isaiah, a lot of people don't realize Isaiah is the one that really had the revelation first of the resurrection of the dead. Now this is one of our foundational doctrines. He said, your life giving light is going to come upon those that are in the dust. And then we. And he uses himself in it. We are going to be raised up, right? And it says, come my people, enter your chambers because the wrath of God is about to come. This is Isaiah 26, last three verses. Last four verses. The wrath of God is going to come and hide in your chambers. And then he talks about how they're going to be raised from the graves. Now this took three days for the Holy Spirit to get this across to me. I was stuck for three days because I'd never heard it before. And all of a sudden I thought, lord, why can't I shake this verse? Enter your chambers before the wrath comes. And your life giving light's going to come on the dead and the dead are going to rise and they're going to enter their chambers before the wrath. And I'm like, why can't I shake this? Then all of a sudden I realized Paul comes along and says, I'm going to reveal a mystery to you. What's a mystery? A mystery is something that was hidden. That's right, right. There's about 12 or 13 of them in the New Testament that Paul reveals. It was hidden to the ancient prophets. They sought diligently but they couldn't get it. And Jesus said, you're not going to get it until the Holy Spirit comes. What's the mystery? We're not all going to die. Oh, okay. Behold, the dead in Christ are going to be rise. Then we who are alive are going to be caught up together with them.

[Josh Hart]

Thessalonians.

[John Bevere]

Yeah. Now all of a sudden I went, oh my gosh, I see it. So is the life giving light of God going to come on the dead believers? We're talking about Old Testament saints and New Testament saints in the graves. And then they're going to have to hide for seven years at Petra in wildernesses and strongholds. No, think about it. Dead people being raised from the dead. So they'd have to hide for seven years. No, he's going to raise them up before the indignation on the nations. It's right There in Isaiah. And they're going to go to the chambers, and the chambers have to be in heaven because these are dead people being raised. But then Paul says, we, at the same moment, we who are alive will be caught up together with them in the air. All of a sudden, I go, oh, my goodness. Now, let me ask you a question. When you see the throne of God in Psalms, in Ezekiel, in Hebrews, you have this description, this description of what's at the throne of God. Let's just do Hebrews. There's God the Father, there's Jesus, right? There's innumerable company angels, and there's the spirits of Just Men made perfect in the Church of the Firstborn. Who are these two people, these groups? Spirits of Just Men Made Perfect, Old Testament saints and the Church of the Firstborn are all the believers that have died. They're at the throne right now.

[Josh Hart]

That's great.

[John Bevere]

Okay.

[Josh Hart]

That's great.

[John Bevere]

Now you come over to Revelation, John's description, and not one seal has been broken. Not one. And he sees these elders, these 24 elders.

[Josh Hart]

I just. It was my Bible reading yesterday.

[John Bevere]

Okay? Now, the ESV really messed this up.

[Josh Hart]

Well, dang. That's my Bible reading.

[John Bevere]

I'm sorry. They messed it up. You got to read the new King James.

[Josh Hart]

Okay. By the way, good translation for listeners. New King James is a good translation.

[John Bevere]

Thank you. They said they're worshiping him. And he said, for you have redeemed us. Now, I went in.

[Josh Hart]

That's what it says, ESV or nkjm.

[John Bevere]

ESV says you have redeemed them.

[Josh Hart]

Okay.

[John Bevere]

New King James says, you have redeemed us. I go to the original, and it means we, and it can never mean others.

[Josh Hart]

Interesting.

[John Bevere]

And I actually put it in the book.

[Josh Hart]

Interesting.

[John Bevere]

Okay. You have redeemed us now. You've redeemed us from every tribe and every nation. So I always used to think, okay, these are 24 special guys and ladies that are. Have these special thrones, these elders, right? Wait a minute. You've redeemed us from every tribe? There's over 5,000 indigenous tribes on the earth. Every nation. There's 254 nations on the earth, if you count territories, too.

[Josh Hart]

Okay?

[John Bevere]

How can they say every tribe and every nation if there's only 24? The other thing that you see is you don't see the spirits of just men made perfect anymore. You don't see. You don't see it. They're gone. Where did they go? I believe the reason it's 24 elders is could it be and this is conjecture. This is where I go to conjecture. 12 tribes of Israel, 12 apostles of the Lamb. That's the foundation. The 12 apostles of the Lamb. And these people came out in. We're a part of that tribe. I'm a part of the tribe of Paul and Peter and. Right. Because their words that they wrote are what brought me to the Lord. If you look at Jacob's sons, everybody came from those sons. So those elders, I believe, are the ones that actually they are now have their glorified bodies. That Hebrews, when they saw it, they were the spirits of just men made perfect. If you also look at. Here's where people really argue. They say, okay, you're just an escape person. First of all, Jesus said, pray that you could be worthy to escape all these things. But let's not even go there. Let's not go there. Okay, we'll leave that off the table. That's good. That's good. I just. I just. I just. All right. Tribulation is the world's wrath against the believer. I mean, Josh, there were so many Christians killed in Nigeria in the last month. That's right. There's been more Christians martyred in our generation than any other time period in history.

[Josh Hart]

Yeah. By the way, for listeners, let that sink in. That is a verifiable fact. More Christian martyrs in the last century than in every previous century combined.

[John Bevere]

Yes.

[Josh Hart]

All right, you keep going.

[John Bevere]

All right. So tribulation is the world's wrath against us. The tribulation, capital T, is God's wrath against a sinful world. So do we think that he's going to beat up his son's bride and then say, okay, let's have dinner together, you know, the wedding, the marriage, supper of the Lamb. No, Paul writes before. Okay, the Thessalonians is the description of how we will be right. Caught up together with the Lord to meet the Lord. He says we have been delivered from God's wrath before that. And he says we have been delivered from God's wrath after that. So here's what I believe. I believe the rapture could happen at any time.

[Josh Hart]

Do you think there is any biblical prophecy that has yet to be fulfilled that has to be fulfilled pre rapture in your view of eschatology? No.

[John Bevere]

Somebody may say, well, the temple has to be built so that the Antichrist can come in. No, it doesn't. Because you know what? The Bible doesn't say if there's a gap between the Rapture and the start of the tribulation. It doesn't say that I don't believe personally, I believe it is the kickoff. Because then you take every Christian out of the United States, out of every construct of society, you'd have no more.

[Josh Hart]

It would be chaos relief organization.

[John Bevere]

It would be narcissistic.

[Josh Hart]

No one can understand how bad things would get as fast as they would get if you unalived or disappeared. The salt of the earth from the face of the earth.

[John Bevere]

So I believe we're the restrainer.

[Josh Hart]

Yeah. So real quick, because you know, we're

[John Bevere]

just going back and forth.

[Josh Hart]

So when you say the restrainer, he's talking about in it's second Thessalonians, right?

[John Bevere]

The man of sin can't be revealed, the lawless one, until the restrainer is removed.

[Josh Hart]

And when it talks about the Restrainer, it says he who is restraining. And I'm assuming you're interpreting because usually what people do is they'll go, man, that's the work of the Holy Spirit. Is the he the work of the Holy Spirit through the people of the church. Right?

[John Bevere]

Yeah.

[Josh Hart]

Yeah, that's what you're doing. So. And honestly, that's one thing that makes a lot of sense to me. It's like, hey, dude, you removed the church.

[John Bevere]

You know that that Greek word means he or it or an entity.

[Josh Hart]

Oh, interesting. Okay, that's interesting.

[John Bevere]

Go ahead.

[Josh Hart]

Okay, well that's what I'm just pointing out that that makes sense. Like I don't think anyone anywhere understands the level of evil that is being restrained by the presence of Christians on the face of the earth. No one fully grasped that. You remove that and it is a damn breaking like unlike anything you have ever imagined.

[John Bevere]

Correct.

[Josh Hart]

Okay, so you keep going. That's why I just want to hear in your view. And by the way, nobody's going to beat you up on Live Free. We'll delete you and remove you from the comments, but let them say it.

[John Bevere]

I don't care.

[Josh Hart]

I care. So here's your real quick. You're walking through real quick. You don't think there's a quick view of your timeline of events from now to the end? You don't think no prophecy has to be. There's nothing standing between now and a rapture in your mind. And then. And then what? You keep taking it from there?

[John Bevere]

Well, that's what causes me to live the way I live.

[Josh Hart]

Eagerly awaiting.

[John Bevere]

Eagerly awaiting because let's say it is a mid trib. Daniel tells us exactly how many days before he comes back if it's a mid trip. So he wouldn't come as a thief. In the night, it's 1275 days. And then he says 1325 days or 35 days. He gives the two things that will happen. If it's at the end, we know exactly when it's going to be. So it's not a catching away. And the ancient Jewish wedding, the groom, once they got betrothed, which is like being married, but you're not living together, he would go away and prepare a room off his father's house and come back on an unannounced day and grab her in the middle of the night. Not in the middle of the night, early in the evening or in the middle of the night when his father said, go get her. Because he didn't even know. The groom didn't even know until the father said, I approve. Go get her. And so you have so much wedding talk that the disciples understood that we don't understand because we have engagement. Engagement, you can just break it. A betrothal. You got to get a divorce. Right. So if you look at. There's so much that doesn't make sense. And can I please challenge something? Because so many. It's like, it's like Paul writes the Thessalonians says, I'm so frustrated. These teachers have come in and confused you. There are guys that are out there saying rapture. First of all, rapture is in the Bible, but it's not in the English Bible. It's in the Latin Bible. Raptor, mirror. It's the Greek word, harpazo. So let's use a scriptural term that people understand. The catching away of the church. Okay, where was I going? Oh, no, I just lost my train of thought. The catching away of the church is something that he said he's going to come to get his bride. I believe he's going to have his wedding garment on. How in the world does he come as a warrior and destroying the nations at the exact same time he's getting his bride?

[Josh Hart]

Okay, yeah.

[John Bevere]

Does he have like his wedding dress underneath his armor? And the other thing is, Zechariah, Jude, Enoch, all prophesy about him coming with 10 thousands and thousands of his saints. How does that happen? Do we get raptured in the clouds? Because he talks about us getting caught away in the clouds and then do we just all of a sudden mount on horses and do a U turn and come down and put us put his foot on the Mount of Olives. There's so much that doesn't make sense. If you, if you look at the post trip. So that's why you know, so your

[Josh Hart]

timeline of events, just if you concisely bullet them, how's it go?

[John Bevere]

It goes catching away the church, the lawless ones revealed. The lawless one confirms a treaty with many. Okay, look at the Board of Peace right now. You have 35 nations. Okay, he's going to confirm a covenant. He's not going to establish a covenant. He's going to confirm. Go look at Daniel 9. It's pretty interesting. So it was already kind of put in place. He's going to confirm it, going to probably encourage them to build their temple. And in the middle of that, three and a half years into it, he's going to come and he's going to cause the sacrifices to stop and he's going to set up a sacrilegious object. And at that point, that is when Jesus said, hey, if you're in Judea, flee to the mountains. Because the greatest persecution of Christians, actually, Zechariah tells us that 2/3 of the Jews will be killed by him and one third will go through the fire. That next three and a half years is the most horrific time period of human history. That is when he is going to be persecuting the church. And that is when the great wrath of God is being poured out upon the earth. And then you have the nations that are rallying together coming against Jerusalem. Jesus will come back with ten thousands of his saints and with one stroke of a breath of his mouth, smite everybody of those nations. The birds of the air are going to have a feast. A feast, because the blood is going to be up to a horse's right knee. And then Jesus is going to come back and he's going to set up the earth the way it was originally intended to be run. You will then have people in natural bodies and you have people in glorified bodies. Just as Jesus interacted with the disciples by eating fish with them, but suddenly

[Josh Hart]

appearing and he was in his glorified body, they were in a natural body, right?

[John Bevere]

You're going to have that during the millennium. Those are the people that can have babies. They're going to repopulate. God says that when the tribulation is over, people are going to be so mortal flesh will be so rare, it'll be as rare as fine gold. So a lot of scholars believe it's not millions, it's billions of people that are going to be put to death. And there are some Bible. Now, these are guys that are smarter than me, believe there's only going to be 40, 50, 100, 150 million people left on the earth when all these plagues are done. I mean, that's 21 pretty intense plagues.

[Josh Hart]

So you go millennium, then you go

[John Bevere]

a thousand year millennial reign.

[Josh Hart]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

Satan is bound that entire thousand years. He is then loosed to tempt not the people in the glorified bodies, to keep. To tempt the people in the natural bodies. Once again, they're going to come against Jerusalem and the fire of God's going to devour them from heaven.

[Josh Hart]

So there's two things I want to do. I want to do one short and then I want to have you like, honestly, I mentioned this, the front half of the pod. Something honestly sent like a chill through my spine. And I want to run it in front of you and just see how, how it lands on you. Okay, let me do the short one first. So some of the stuff you're talking about right now is kind of. And we're going to theology nerd here for a second. The terms are preterism and partial preterism. So preterism. That, that's kind of the view that, that some of the events of Revelation have actually already taken place.

[John Bevere]

Right.

[Josh Hart]

Because they referred to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. And some of the. All that discourse. That's all of that discourse for listeners. It's in Matthew, primarily. Matthew is 23 and 24. Yeah, 23 and 24.

[John Bevere]

But no, 24, 25, 24, 25.

[Josh Hart]

It's Jesus. It's very interesting. It's actually Jesus longest response to any question he was ever asked.

[John Bevere]

Yes.

[Josh Hart]

I just want to pause and say that the longest response, any question Jesus was ever asked was about his second coming. That's interesting. And some of that, both there and then, it's mirrored obviously in Luke 21. That's what I preached this week. It just. There's no way around it. Some of that is clearly about the destruction of the temple in AD 70.

[John Bevere]

Right? Absolutely, without a doubt. And it's also this guy coming in and stopping sacrifices is about a Greek emperor who came in and did it about 40 or 50 years before Jesus.

[Josh Hart]

So you view that as like, I can't help.

[John Bevere]

It's like a precursor. It's like a preview.

[Josh Hart]

Yeah. Coming attraction.

[John Bevere]

Yeah. Because Jesus talks about it again. 40, 40, 50. Well, no, 70 years later, after this Greek ruler came in and did exactly that. I think it was Archelaudus or what, I'm saying it wrong. I got it wrong. But anyway, he then says it's going to happen in the future. And since then it hasn't happened.

[Josh Hart]

Okay. Yes, Paul, what's the name for that term where it's like a prophecy, will have a near term fulfillment and a far term fulfillment census Plaintiff. That's it. That's it. So you view that as. That those prophecies are referring to the second coming they just had almost like a. Almost like a birth pang, almost like a preview in the destruction of the temple in 87.

[John Bevere]

Can I give you a clear example that we can all see? That's great. Of, of what Paul just told you?

[Josh Hart]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

All right. Matthew 17. Jesus comes down from the mount of transfiguration.

[Josh Hart]

All of a sudden, oh, this is great.

[John Bevere]

Peter, James and John are like, oh, my gosh, you're the Messiah.

[Josh Hart]

Yeah.

[John Bevere]

So they're, they're confused. They said, hey, all the teachers tell us that Elijah's got to come first. Now remember, Malachi writes last couple verses. I'm gonna send you Elijah the prophet. Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. John goes. Elijah is.

[Live Free Nation Host]

Excuse me.

[John Bevere]

Jesus goes, oh, yeah, Elijah is coming. Wait a minute. Is coming his future tense. John's beheaded in Matthew 14. That's great. John's already gone. But then he says, Elijah has come already, and they didn't know him, but they did. And this, the Bible says he was referring to John the Baptist. So you have an Elijah before his first coming. You have an Elijah before his second coming.

[Josh Hart]

This is great. I've never thought of this before. Keep going.

[John Bevere]

Okay, so when Malachi actually writes about Elijah, he says, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. Well, John the Baptist was before the great and dreadful day of the Lord, but so will this one that's coming, which I don't believe is one individual. I believe it's sons and daughters. I believe it's people you and I are ministering to. They are going to go forth in the spirit and power of Elijah, which means the strength and might of El Yah. And so. So I still believe that's the sons and daughters that Joel saw in the menservants and maidservants. They're going to come before the great and dreadful. The sun will be turned to darkness. I'll do. None of that happened. Because if you look at Isaiah 40, it says right. The voice of one crying. Right. It's okay. We all, we all ascribe that. The Bible ascribes that to John the Baptist.

[Josh Hart]

Yes.

[John Bevere]

The angel Gabriel said to Zacharias, he will go before Jesus in the spirit and power of Elijah. However, if you read Isaiah 40. It says, this voice is going to cry out in the wilderness, prepare the way of the Lord. In the desert, in the dry places, prepare the way of the Lord. He said, every mountain be low. Then what does he say? God's glory will be revealed and all flesh will see it. All flesh did not see the glory of God when Jesus first came. That's right, they saw it. If they went to the Mount. If they went to the Mount of Olives, they saw it. If they went to the sermon. Where was the sermon? On the Mount? They saw it, but not all flesh saw it together. But when he comes back, as lightning flashes out of the east and the west, when men are going to cry out for the rocks to fall on top of them for the face of

[Josh Hart]

him who's coming, there's no way to view that. It's got to be Second Coming.

[John Bevere]

That's the great and dreadful day of the Lord.

[Josh Hart]

That's right.

[John Bevere]

So there's a prophecy that had a fulfillment 2,000 years ago and will have another fulfillment in the days to come.

[Josh Hart]

That's fantastic. Okay, let me get you to respond to this thing. And if you think I'm an idiot, you're not hurting my feelings.

[John Bevere]

You're not an idiot.

[Josh Hart]

Let me do this. And I want to know how it lands on you. And then I want to rapid fire some questions from POD listeners that they sent in.

[John Bevere]

Yep.

[Josh Hart]

Okay. On Second Coming. So first dude, in message prep this week, it honestly is a little chilling to me some of the ways that Islam and Islamic eschatology overlays on top of biblical prophecy about our true Christian eschatology. So for listeners, let me run through this real quick. And, dude, this is going to take me like two minutes here. Let me run through this. And I just want to know how this lands on you. If you think I'm on off how you think about this. All right, so first of all, obviously, we all know Galatians 1:8. The apostle Paul prophesied 600 years before the birth of Islam, even if we. Or an angel from heaven preaches to you another gospel, let him be accursed. So he's 600 years early saying, hey, watch out. Someday there may be. You know, the Bible says that Satan masquerades an angel of light. He's going, hey, man, watch out. Someday there may be, like, somebody that comes and acts like they're an angel of light and they're actually Satan or a demonic power, and they're going to reveal to you a different gospel, a new religion, another way. So 600 years later, obviously, Muhammad walks into a cave and it's like, man, it's a real weird thing happened. I was in there and there was this angel of light. Now this is a side note. I didn't know this until I researched this a couple podcasts ago. It is documented, written down. Muhammad originally thought that he encountered a demon, a jinn as a Islamic word for a demon. He originally thought that. He was convinced later by the people he reported it to. Oh, no, that wasn't a demon. That was an angel. Okay. And then that angel, obviously, quote, unquote, quote, unquote angel reveals to him a, quote, new gospel, another way. All right, now fast forward, you get to John 16, and it says this. It says the time is coming, talking about the end times. It says the time is coming when they will kill you and think they are offering service to God. Now that tells me something. In America for the last 20, 30 years, what we've been really focused on as Christians is man, secularism and atheism. Big problem. That right there tells me that the final boss is not secularism because it says at the end they will kill you and think they are offering service to God. So the final boss in the end times, last days, it will be some form of religion that thinks killing Christians, quote, unquote, infidels is a good thing.

[John Bevere]

Right.

[Josh Hart]

Now fast forward to Revelation, chapter 20. It says this. The souls of those who had been beheaded, beheaded because they refused to worship the beast. I'll just point this out. There is one religion and one religion only whose quote, unquote holy book specifically prescribes beheading. The Quran calls it striking necks as the prescribed way to kill an infidel. Let me just point that out. All right, now let me fast forward again. Now you go to 2nd Thessalonians 9:2, 9:12. And it says this, the coming of the lawless one, and it's talking about the Antichrist, will be in accordance with how Satan works. I'm reading. Still, he will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refuse to love the truth and so to be saved. For this reason. This is what I want to listen real close. For this reason, God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned and have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. Now, here's. I'm going to keep going, but let me pause and say something here. There is a possibility, if you're connecting some dots, that the strong delusion theologians call it God's passive wrath. There comes a moment where God goes, hey man, you are set in rebellion against me. You want nothing to do with me. And in the end, my judgment is to say to you, thy will be done. You can do that. I'm gonna let you walk away from me. And second, Thessalonians says that in the end there will come a strong delusion so that mass amounts of people begin to believe an Antichrist lie, correct possibility that that could be another religion, something like Islam. In fact, I'll just pause and say this. It's really only in the last few years that I've begun to think about this. It's very odd to me, it seems delusional that for instance, you see this weird, unholy alliance between secular progressivism and Islam where it's like secular progressives who are supposedly all about things like women's rights and gay rights and sexual liberation in a free society. And for some reason they're like, they love Islam. And it's like there's this weird marriage there. It seems. Let me pause for dramatic emphasis. It seems delusional. It's like the people who are for women's rights are partnering with the people who make women wear burkas and beat them if they don't cover their, you know, their hair. And the people who are supposedly for gay rights are partnering with the people who throw them off the tops of buildings in Gaza. The people who are supposedly for sexual liberation are partnering with the people who literally execute people who, you know, commit, you know, that sort of thing.

[John Bevere]

This is all correct.

[Josh Hart]

Okay, I'm going to keep going. The people who are supposedly about just liberation and freedom are partnering with the people who are for like oppressive Sharia law. The only way that makes sense to me is two things. One, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Essentially, the unifying principle underneath it is anything but Christianity and anyone but Christ. I'll just. It gives me in trouble. It is an Antichrist spirit that unites those two movements. Okay, there is. It seems to be because of the discontinuity between the values. Honestly, it seems to me to be a strong delusion. I'll just as a possibility. Now, let me land here on one more thing. And this is the thing that honestly sent a chill down my spine message prepping this week. And I want to know how all this lands on you. So if you start studying Islamic Eschatology. I don't recommend you spending any time on this by the way.

[John Bevere]

No, The Mahdi is unbelievable. That's where you're going?

[Josh Hart]

That's where I'm going. Okay. If you start studying Islamic eschatology and their view of the end times. In the end there is. You just named it. In Islamic eschatology, his name is the Mahdi. He is an end times eschatological quote unquote messianic figure. I am going to bullet point for you 10 things that Muslims believe about the Mahdi. If you are a Bible aware Christian, when I read these things you're going to be going, wait, that sounds familiar. And I'm going to connect some dots for you here in a second. So in Islamic eschatology, the Mahdi will emerge as a charismatic messianic world leader during global chaos. He will take control of the world and destroy everyone who resists him. He will invade many nations. He will rule and reign for seven years. He will broker a seven year peace treaty with the Jews. He will conquer Israel and massacre the Jews. He will establish an Islamic one world government headquartered in Jerusalem. He will establish Islam as the only acceptable religion. He will come. Bro, this is insane. He will come on a white horse. I'm just pausing for a reason. In Islamic eschatology, he will come on a white horse. First seal with supernatural power doing signs and wonders. He will be assisted by a powerful prophet. Now if that sounds familiar, it is because it is a precise description of the Bible's Antichrist.

[John Bevere]

Correct.

[Josh Hart]

So we know, you and me know the rider on the white horse in Revelation 6 is the Antichrist. They use that verse to describe their end times. Messianic Mahdi. Now listen, honestly man.

[John Bevere]

They also believe Jesus is going to come back too.

[Josh Hart]

Exactly. Well, I didn't say this. The prophet that they believe will assist the Mahdi. They believe that's Isaac. The Islamic view of Jesus, a demonic, evil, twisted. Their view of Jesus is what the New Testament calls another Christ. A false Christ. That's who they believe that's going to be. I'll do one more. I just ran across this literally this morning coming over here. So Ezekiel 38. If you view Ezekiel 38 as an eschatological prophecy. I do.

[John Bevere]

I do.

[Josh Hart]

If you view Ezekiel 38 as an eschatological prophecy and it says that all these nations, in fact. Let me pull it up real quick. It says that all these nations are going to unite against Israel. Okay. And that they're going to come to attack Israel and that as they Unite against Israel and come to attack Israel. That, that will be the moment that Christ, the true Jesus returns. And like you said, he just lays waste to the enemies of God. Okay, now I'm going to list so that in Ezekiel 38 it uses the then names of those regions. So it lists, you know this, this is for the listeners. It lists Gog, Magog. I'm going to pronounce some wrong. Meshech, Tubal, Cush, put Gomer and Beth. Now the modern day geographic correspondence to all of those nations are as follows. Gog and Magog, that could be part of Russia or Central Asia. So you've got that Meshel and Tubal, that's in Turkey, Persia, that's Iran. Kush is Sudan. Put is modern day Libya or broader Northern Africa. Gomer is Turkey. Beth, Togar, Togamar. I didn't mention that earlier. That's also Turkey. Can I say this? Let me pause. With the exception of parts of Russia, every single one of those nations today is a dominantly Islamic nation. Now honestly man, like I don't know how to read this stuff and not go, hey man, Islam might be the strong delusion that sweeps forward and ushers in these end times things. What do you think?

[John Bevere]

I think what everything you've just said is absolutely accurate. I think what's mind blowing is that when Ezekiel wrote that exactly Persia was an ally to the people of God. So for him to have any kind of a human input in that just shows again the inspiration of the word of God. The other thing is if you look at, there's two major groups of Muslims, the Shiites and the Sunnis. The Sunnis are a little calmer. The Shiites, their version of the Mahdi is there has to be chaos and war for to usher in the Mahdi. Now when you're dealing with Iran currently, you're going to find out if this regime stays in power there, they don't care if they get blown up.

[Josh Hart]

Not at all. They do not care one bit.

[John Bevere]

Let's talk about China. China cares about its future. Let's talk about Russia. They care about their future. The leaders of Iran don't. They want to do whatever it takes to get the Mahdi to come.

[Josh Hart]

That's it. They, they want global. Some of them, let me just. Some of them, honestly, the ones that have been in power want global war to trigger Islamic eschatological events.

[John Bevere]

Yes, you keep going. So that's why they are so fanatical about as they are and that's why there is actually a scholar in China who is very respected on the global scene, who believes that America can't win this war because of that very fact. It's an ideology. It's the spirit of Islam behind this, and it's a radical version of it to where they're not going to give up at all, and they're not going to give up their hold. And so, yes, it's very interesting to me how that delusion is. I think the most interesting thing that you've said that I have pondered, because Lisa and I, we were walking through Rome last year, and there's all these. These. These college students saying, down with Israel and free Palestine.

[Josh Hart]

I know.

[John Bevere]

And my wife was so mad, she actually yelled at him. And I was like, lisa, I don't think this is. She said, I'm American. I'm not Jewish. So anyway, they started yelling at her. And I thought, this is going to be interesting. But anyway, why are universities like this? It is a delusion. And I do believe there comes a point where a person says, I don't want God. If you look at Psalm 2 in the new Living, it's very interesting. They cry out, free us, slave. Free us from slavery to God. Psalm 2, go look it up. NLT later. It's amazing. These people, if I was praying about this recently, and the Lord said, if I gave them a thousand years, they wouldn't change. They've set their hearts and they've closed their eyes, they've closed their ears, and they don't want God. And so God says, I'm going to turn them over.

[Josh Hart]

You can have what you want, guys.

[John Bevere]

Yeah, you can have exactly.

[Josh Hart]

Romans 1.

[John Bevere]

So if you go back to the garden, it's really interesting. If you go back to the garden, you got these two main trees, right? The tree of life. What does it represent? God is my creator. He knows what makes me. He knows what breaks me. You know, A good example of this would be when my four boys were toddlers. Christmas Day's a work day. Every dad knows what I'm saying right now. They open up all the gifts and guess who's building the toys all day. It's you and me, and I'm your typical dad. I rip open the box, throw the pieces on the floor, throw the box in the instruction manual away, and I start building the toy. I spend an hour. I'm finished, but there's still five pieces on the floor. I hit the switch. It doesn't work. I'm so mad. It's Christmas Day. I can't call the 800 number and say, They've given me a defective toy. So what do I. I go get the manual, the guy that designs the toy, I deconstruct it, reconstruct it the way he said it. Now, I don't have five pieces. I turn the switch and it works. Okay? God's our creator. He knows what breaks me. He knows what makes me. That's the Tree of Life. What's the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. When she saw that it was good, didn't say when she saw it was evil and it would make her wise. Doesn't say when she saw it would make her wicked. It's when we choose what is good for us outside of what God says. That's great.

[Josh Hart]

That's great.

[John Bevere]

Now that is the foundation of everything moving forward. So why does God give the law? To protect ourselves from ourselves. Because the nature we have is. I'm going to choose which will actually be detrimental that which will be detrimental to me in the long run.

[Josh Hart]

That's exactly right, man.

[John Bevere]

Okay, so the law proves we can't do that because we got this nature that will always choose what's bad for me. So he comes along and gives us a new nature. When Jesus dies on the cross, that's the thing we gotta emphasize. Now, I've got the ability to keep the commandments of God because I have the divine nature that he's given me as a gift. All right? So now when you look at it in the New Testament, lawlessness means I don't want anything to do. Lawlessness is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I don't want what my creator says is good for me. I want what I say is good for me. When people keep going like that, their heart gets harder and harder and harder till eventually, eventually now it will take a thousand years. And you said it perfectly. Your enemy is my enemy. And that is what's uniting these groups. And I do believe that this one world religion that will be in existence in the tribulation will have a very strong Islamic or Muslim influence to it.

[Josh Hart]

Okay, wow. All right, let me. Let's finish off. I'm going to rapid fire you some questions.

[John Bevere]

Okay? I hope I can answer them.

[Josh Hart]

These are five. We're going to rapid fire these real quick. Quick and hang on, let me grab this one. We're gonna rapid fire 5. Do your best. I'm not limiting you, but do your best to like, rapid fire back two to three sentences. Okay, These are the five most upvoted ones from pod listeners. John Bevere, what is the Abomination of desolation mentioned in Daniel and by Jesus.

[John Bevere]

It is when the Antichrist comes in and stops all sacrifices, breaks that covenant, that treaty that he made, and he sets up the idol to worship, and he says, I am God.

[Josh Hart]

I am God.

[John Bevere]

That's right.

[Josh Hart]

Okay. This is. There is a growing dark opposition to Israel in the world right now, specifically against the Jews. What do you think is behind that?

[John Bevere]

That's the spirit of Antichrist. Spirit of Antichrist hates anything to do with what God loves. And God still to this day loves Israel.

[Josh Hart]

Even though they've rejected him. You're like, hey, God still. He still has a purpose for him. That's what's in your head. Yeah, I think that's Romans 9:11. I think that there's no way to rebuild it.

[John Bevere]

He doesn't believe in replacement theology.

[Josh Hart]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Bevere]

He still loves the Jewish people.

[Josh Hart]

That's right. You will. I'm gonna. We mentioned it, but you. You will. You. I don't think there's a way to read Romans 9:11 without going. You are going to see a massive turning to Christ among the Jewish people. And it's gonna be awesome to see.

[John Bevere]

And I'm excited about it.

[Josh Hart]

It's gonna be awesome to see. Okay. Oh, actually, you already hit that one. Let me go to the next one. If even demons know the word, how do newer Christians identify and weed out false prophets who are really good at disguising themselves?

[John Bevere]

False prophets are known by. Not what they. Not necessarily what they preach. It's the way they live, first of all. Secondly, the word of God will expose a false prophet, just like if you look at a counterfeit $20 bill. I don't have to come along and tell you every time that's a counterfeit. I can teach you how to recognize a counterfeit. So I believe one of our responsibilities as leaders is we teach people how to recognize a false prophet. First and foremost, it's how they live. And secondly, it's what they teach.

[Josh Hart]

That's great. That's great. Last one. This was such an honest question, and a ton of people voted for it. And it makes me proud of this person for their vulnerability. Am I a bad Christian for fearing or not looking forward to Christ's return? Honestly, it just scares me.

[John Bevere]

That's because they've been incorrectly taught the word of God. When you understand it to be the wedding of the ages, you're like a. A bride who cannot wait for that day to come.

[Josh Hart]

The blessed hope.

[John Bevere]

And he is the blessed hope. And please, please do not. Because Eschatology when it's preached incorrectly, will create fear. When it's preached correctly, when it' preach correctly, you'll produce faith.

[Josh Hart]

That's so good. John Bevere. I love you. I'm very grateful for you. Would you pray for us?

[John Bevere]

I would be so honored.

[Josh Hart]

Thank you.

[John Bevere]

Heavenly Father, I thank you for every single, every single individual that listens to this podcast. And I thank you for raising up a man of God that will speak your truth with a heart filled with love. Father, I'm asking that this. This podcast would continue to flourish and prosper. I'm asking it would go to places that would even surprise this team. But I'm praying mostly for this because I know the people that are receiving. I know that they're hearing the word of God. They're hearing the heart of God. They're hearing it as if Jesus was at the microphone, speaking and reaching out to them with his great love. I am asking that as people listen to this podcast, that their eyes will be open to see, their ears will be open to hear, their heart will now perceive and understand our Lord Jesus Christ. Because, Holy Spirit, this is what you love to do the most. You love to reveal Jesus. You love to glorify Jesus. May this podcast and its listeners continue to do so. In the mighty name of Jesus and Lord. I do pray that what we've talked about today would create excitement, anticipation, and great faith among your people in Jesus mighty name.

[Josh Hart]

Amen. Thank you, John.

[John Bevere]

Absolutely, Absolutely,

[Josh Hart]

Sam.