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Live Free with Josh Howerton
Megachurch Pastor Reacts to Rhett McLaughlin GASLIGHTING Christians | Live Free with Josh Howerton
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- [00:00]
A
When you become a secular person and you reject the idea of God, now there actually is no power higher than the government. So the government becomes God, then politics becomes religion, candidates become saviors, rallies become worship services, and campaigning becomes evangelism. All right, welcome to Live Free Nation to another test drive of a react episode. Today we're going to be reacting to a little Rhett and Link talking about how Christians are compromising themselves in politics right now. It's going to be really interesting. Two things real want to give you a heads up. These react episodes are kind of a test drive. So, like, I'm trying to see if this is helpful to you guys and worth the time. So if this is helpful, if you could head over to the YouTube channel and drop a comment that helps us know that it's helpful. And if you all like it, then we'll keep rolling. The other thing I want to say is we are getting out our Live Free Nation hats. And so if you'll drop a comment on the YouTube channel, we'll give. We're going to give out five. We're going to give out 5 Trinity. It's going to be awesome. We're going to give out five of these guys. So drop a comment there. Okay, let's get into it. So here's what you're about to see. So if you don't know who they are, Rhett and Link are enormous YouTubers. They've got about 25 million subs across two channels on YouTube. Interestingly, at some point, I may do a quick react video to this. It was about four years ago. One or both of these guys had been very outspoken about their faith as a Christ follower, as a Christian. About four years ago, they deconstructed their faith and the Christian term for it is apostasize. At one point they said they were on Team Jesus and they're like, hey, we're out on Team Jesus. Deconverted, left the faith, and now that's kind of their thing. Now what you're going to see me do here in the next couple seconds is I want to differentiate something. And really every Christian needs to understand the difference between those two things. These two things. If you go read the Book of Jude, there's a verse at the end of the Book of Jude that says, have mercy on those who doubt. But then like half of the Book of Jude is Jude taken like a double barrel shotgun to false teachers that were trying to get other people to doubt. So here's the big idea is that Christians should have radically different postures. Towards people who are standing in their faith and wrestling with some doubts to try to keep following Jesus than they should have towards people who are standing in their unbelief and then promulgating unbelief to try to get other people to move to unbelief. So you're going to see me like have a, you know, again, a bit of an edge towards these kind of things. There's a biblical reason for that. We have to differentiate between refugees from the world that stumble into our churches and they're asking legitimate questions about doubt because they're like, I don't wanna keep doing the world thing. It really stinks out there. Those are refugees from the world. These guys are apostles of the world. We should have compassion and tenderness towards a doubter. Really, we should be a lot more forceful with people who are trying to get other people to doubt. So that said, let's see what Rhett and Link have to say about Christians and politics.
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B
The temptation of Jesus, of course, he's out there in the wilderness for 40 days. So there's the three temptations from the devil. The third one, the temptation of Jesus, of course, he's out there in the wilderness for 40 days. And so there's the three temptations from the devil. The third one being going up to the top of the mountain saying, look at all the kingdoms of the world. I will give you all of this if you will just bow down and worship me. And of course Jesus says, be gone Satan, for it is written, you shall worship the Lord your God and only him shall you serve this to me. This is pretty wild.
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A
Okay, this is what's really interesting. So what you got right here is you got a guy who, who is deconverted from Christianity, so says he hates Christianity, doesn't believe a single word of the Bible, but he's really going to make sure that you obey his interpretation of it. Now here's what you're going to notice. You will see this from non Christian people constantly. It's the guy that, you know, who hates everything about the Bible, wants to advance every evil cause that's in opposition to the Bible. He couldn't quote one verse from the Sermon on the Mount, but he knows the verse judge not and he's gonna make sure you don't do it. So here's where this comes from. And at some point we'll probably do like an entire episode on this. Here's a little homework. If you want to understand what's happening in our nation right now, you need to go read a Tiny little book or you can just grok it and get a quick summary. A book by a guy named Saul Alinsky called Rules for Radicals. Barack Obama years ago said it was like a foundational read for him. It's essentially like a Marxist com communist dude that set out, I think it's 11 rules for how to destabilize societies in advance, like a godless agenda or. Cause now his rule number four, Saul Alinsky's rule number four was make the enemy live up to his own book of rules. So this is where you get people who they don't believe Christianity and they hate the Bible, but they're going to demand that you, as a Christian, obey their wrong interpretation of it. Now I'm going to show you why people like this are so adamant about keeping Christians out of politics. And I'm going to show you the wrong interpretation part of it. Okay, so check this out.
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B
Considering the state of the current American church, because the one opportunity that Jesus has to make a commentary about embracing political power over the kingdom.
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A
Oh, whoopsie daisy. So in the Temptation of Jesus, the commentary that Jesus makes has nothing to do with embracing political power. More on that here in a second. In fact, I'll just say this. There is no way to read about Daniel, Esther, Joseph, Moses, Nehemiah, John the Baptist, and then Jesus is called the King of Kings. That's literally what we call him, the King of Kings. There's no way to read about all those things and then think that it's wrong or sinful for Christians to touc anything political. So you're going to see this in a second. This passage is one of the three passages that non Christian people use to sort of weaponize against Christians to keep Christians from ever engaging culturally and politically. There's a spiritual reason for that. I'll get here in a second. But the commentary that Jesus is making when he rejects Satan's offer of quote, the kingdoms of the world is not a commentary or on embracing political power. The commentary is about taking it as a present from Satan. That's what he's commenting on. So you're going to see this.
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B
Oh, the kingdoms of this world.
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A
Wait, wait, let me say this. So there's a reason that lost people, especially people who deconvert from Christianity, there's a spiritual reason. They become very, very passionate about keeping Christians away from politics. So here's what you need to understand as a Christian, okay? In a secular society or with a secular person, when somebody like Rhett and Link, when they reject God, they deconvert and apostatize from the faith. What happens in their spirits and in their hearts is once upon a time they believed in a God that was over and higher than the government. But when you become a secular person and you reject the idea of God, now there actually is no power higher than the government. There is no God over the government. So the government is the highest remaining authority left. So in their schema, what happens is the government functionally becomes God. So here's how it works. There's no higher power than God. So the government becomes God. Then politics becomes religion, candidates become saviors, rallies become worship services, and campaigning becomes evangelism. Okay, so this is why there's a spiritual reason when somebody rejects God in a secular society. Now politics becomes their religion. So I've got to keep you out from impeding my sort of eschatological vision for what the world needs to become and that it can only become through politics. So this is why now let's keep going.
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B
Is presented as a temptation of Satan.
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A
I want you to hear everything you just said.
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B
Or the kingdoms of this world is presented as a temptation of Satan.
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A
No, that, that's incorrect. Now let me, let me talk about real quick. What he's saying is that Jesus rejected the kings of the world in the temptation narrative in Luke chapter four, and therefore that taking political power, Jesus reigning and ruling over the kingdoms of this world is a temptation of Satan. Now this is one. Here's why you need to get your head around this. This is one of three passages that non Christian people lob at Christians constantly and well meaning. But naive Christians who have embraced secular narratives. One of three passages that they'll use to say Christians need to stay out of politics. The three passages are you've got Jesus that prays that says my kingdom is not of this world. So people will tell you as a Christian, hey, Jesus said my kingdom is not of this world. So why are you trying to advance the kingdom of this world? Yes, Jesus did say his kingdom was not of this world. Jesus also prayed for his kingdom to come on earth as it is in heaven. When Jesus said his kingdom was not of this world, he wasn't saying I never want anything about my kingdom to come to this world. He was saying its origin point is in heaven. And now you need to pray, live and act in such a way that my kingdom comes on earth as it is in heaven. And yes, that includes in the political and governmental realm. The other passage that people will often use to gaslight Christians to keep them out of cultural and political Engagement is where Jesus says, give to Caesar what Caesar's. And give to God what's God's. Now, that passage actually means the exact opposite of what people say that it means. If you go back to that passage, what you're gonna notice is Jesus looks at the Pharisees. They're talking about whether or not they should pay taxes to Caesar. And he says something very interesting. He makes them pick up a coin, and he says, whose likeness and inscription is on the coin? And they say, Caesar's. And then he says, well, then, give to Caesar what's Caesar's. And give to God's what's God's. Now, this is amazing. What he was doing is he was like. He was like Jedi mind tricking them. He was like judo. Judo. Because those Pharisees would have known that in the book of Genesis, watch this. God put his likeness and inscription on mankind. He, quote, created mankind in his image. So here was the point. He was saying, everyone everywhere that bears the image of God must bend their knee to God. Guess who that includes? Caesar. So Jesus is implying in that passage, Caesar belongs to God. And every king on this earth must bend his knee to the lordship of Jesus because every king on this earth bears the likeness, image, and inscription of Jesus Christ. Now let's go to this passage, and let's do a little theology really quick. So what Rez says right here is that the temptation was to take political power, and it was a temptation of Satan. No, no, the sin was not in taking political power. In fact, think about the other two temptations. One of the temptations was, hey, command these stones to become bread and eat this bread, and it's going to be awesome. Okay, well, here's what we don't say. What we don't say is things like, well, eating was a temptation, so Christians shouldn't eat bread was a temptation, so Christians should go carnivore. No, that's not what anybody Sundays. In all three temptations, the temptation, listen. Was to take a good thing and acquire it the wrong way. That's the temptation. In fact, all three things Satan tempts Jesus with are explicitly good things. Food that God has created to be received with thanksgiving. Jesus was tempted with everyone exalting him and recognizing that he was the son of God. And Jesus is tempted with taking the kingdoms of the world through demonic means. So the temptation was to get the right thing in the wrong way. Owning an Escalade isn't a sin. Doing only fans to get money for an Escalade is a sin. That's kind of what's going on. So the whole goal is the lordship of Jesus over all the kingdoms of this world. His name, name is literally the king of kings. Now, let me explain what's going on this passage, and then let's move on here. What you've got in this passage is very interesting because Satan, again, he offers Jesus and tempts him with the kingdom of this world. So here's the theology, okay? This is a little theological review. If you trace the theology of dominion in the Bible, dominion gets transferred through a series of entities. When God creates everything, God obviously has dominion over everything at the beginning of Genesis. Then when God creates Adam and Eve, as quote, theologians call them the vice regents of creation, that's how God created them to rule and reign through them. So then God delegates authority and delegates dominion to Adam and Eve. That's why he gives them what's called the cultural mandate. Go and cultivate the earth and subdue it. So he's saying, bring all, all of this, every square inch of the universe under my lordship, you have delegated dominion. Then Adam and Eve sin. Watch this. And then when they sin, dominion over all the earth is lost to Satan. This, by the way, is why when Jesus is tempted by Satan and Satan tells Jesus, I can give you all the kingdoms of the world, Jesus does not say, no, you can't. Jesus is tacitly acknowledging, actually Satan at this point does have dominion over all the kings of this world. Now here's where it gets really interesting. When Jesus comes to Earth, his entire goal is to buy back the dominion over the kingdoms of this world from Satan, and then he gives them to his disciples. So what's happening right here? So Red has just said that taking the kingdoms of this world was a temptation of Satan. No. In fact, in Mark 3, Jesus says, Nobody can enter a strong man's house without first tying him up. Then he can plunder the strong man's house. So in Mark 3, what he's saying is that Satan is the strong man. All the kingdoms of this world are currently in his house. And Jesus was saying, I'm the one who's gonna come. I'm gonna bind the strongman. I came. I'm gonna bind the devil. That's why the book of Revelation says that Jesus bound Satan. That's why it says that. He's saying, I'm gonna bind the strong man. And then Jesus is saying, and then I'm gonna take all your stuff. And that includes every throne and every kingdom in this world. So Jesus is actually explicitly saying, I'm going to take all these kingdoms from you, but I'm not going to take them as a gift from you. I'm going to get them on my own through my disciples. That's why, by the way, in Matthew 28, Jesus turns around to his disciples and he says, all authority in heaven, on earth, has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations. Why did he say that? He's saying, I've bound the strong man. Now all the authority is mine. Now, together with my disciples, let's go take all his stuff. All the nations belong to us. Let's go bring them under my lordship. Now, I will say, even though he's a little extra with it right here, there is a lesson for Christians in this, is that the way that we take the kingdoms of this world is through conversion through the ministry of the Word and the Church, not through compromise with the devil. So we do not take power via sinful and demonic means. Okay? Now, let's keep going.
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B
This is presented as a temptation of Satan to fall for this. We've got to be. We've got to be in control of the. The kingdoms of the world. Does Jesus say, well, okay, maybe you're in charge right now, but you just wait until a few of my followers are in government, or you wait until we're in charge again. He says, it's not about that.
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A
Yes, it is. Yeah, it is about that. It's about establishing the lordship of Christ over all things and making him. Establishing the reality of him as King of Kings. It is about that. Abraham Kuyper, there is not one square inch of this universe over which Christ does not stand and cry mine. It is about that.
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And it just blows my mind that we've gotten to this place where this seems to be. The way that the kingdom of God is going to be established is by infiltrating and taking over the government.
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And I'm now. Okay, let me. Here's what you got to watch out for. Listen to his language. By, quote, infiltrating and taking over the government. Ooh, it's very scary sounding. Okay, so here's the big idea again. We go back to this all the time on Live Free, this old school high school debate team. Whoever controls the terms wins the debate. It's called choice architecture. It's when somebody manipulates the way that choices are presented to you to force you to their desired outcome. It's kind of like when somebody says, hey, man, are you. Well, I could give some examples. I won't do that. But here's the big idea. So he says, infiltrating and taking over the government is what Christians want to do. Here's what you're going to notice with people like this when godless people, quote, infiltrate and take over the government. Well, that's just how a democracy works. Elections have consequences, guys. But when godly people do it, ooh, it's scary, sinful, infiltrating and taking over the government. So we just need to have a theology. This is Christians. Yes, Christians. Let me just say it in a straightforward way. Yes, Christians should 100% be trying to win the culture war and establish Christian people in positions of power and Christian principles as the standpoint of our nation. Again, here's what it all goes back to. It's not, in the words of Doug Wilson, it's not whether, but which. The question is not whether some worldview is going to guide our nation. The question is, which worldview. The question is not whether morality is going to be imposed through government. The question is, whose morality is going to get imposed? What we should want as Christians, what we're saying to our nation is, let's do the morality. Let's do the morality that doesn't invite the judgment and the wrath of God, which our nation, very frankly, is currently under. Go read Romans 1. Okay, so Christians should be doing this. Proverbs 29 2. When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice, but when the wicked rule, the people groan. Okay, now, so let me. So he's saying Christians shouldn't infiltrate and take over the government. So here's. Let me just flip it really quick. The temptation for Christians right now is not to be involved in politics, culture, society. In the net temptation that is very frequently dealt with in our culture from Satan is to keep Christians out of those realms. So what you're going to notice is. Read your Bible. You're going to notice this, that whatever God creates, Satan tries to capture. So we go back to this all the time at Live Free. God has created three institutions to establish good order and lordship in the world. The family, the church, and the state. What you'll notice is that in all three jurisdictions, whatever God creates, Satan tries to capture. So go back to Genesis 2 and 3. God creates the family. Adam stands passively by. He refuses to lead his wife and his family. So Satan steps forward and he goes, if you won't lead your family, I'll be happy to. Let me just say this to all the dads listening. If you won't lead your family, Satan will be happy to then let's think about the church. In Revelation chapter two, you've got a church that, with passive pastors and passive elders that they instead of leading the church to repent of sin, they were quote, tolerating sin. And exactly what happens there, the elders wouldn't leave the church. So Satan steps forward and he leads it. He's like, you won't lead it. I'll be happy to. The exact same thing happens with the state when you have passive Christians who have gotten gaslit by weird bad secular influence Bible teaching to stay out of politics. Hey guys, check this out. If godly people won't engage in the political, cultural, societal realm, Godless people will. So very frankly that right there is how a nation that was once about 90% Bible believing Christians has been led by overt wickedness and godlessness in that direction for the last century or so. What you got right now is secularism is discipling people into political activity and Christians are, and pastors sometimes are discipling their people into political passivity. This is a whole different thing. Every election about 40 to 50 million Bible believing evangelical Christians don't vote. Put that right there. If Christians did their job, then this wouldn't happen. So last thing I'll say is what you have to understand if you read your Bible, what you're going to notice. Satan literally targets the thrones. Satan targets thrones. It's like, honestly, it's like a little game of Thrones. If you go back to why Satan got kicked out of heaven, he looked at God on a throne and he went, I want that throne. Then when he comes down to earth, guess what he targets. He's always targeting thrones over kingdoms. This is why you have overtly demonic power over Egypt, in the Old Testament, over Babylon in the Old Testament. Fast forward to the book of Revelation and you've got Satan in bed with a government. Once again, he's occupying thrones. This is why in Ephesians, I think chapter six, it specifically says that what demonic powers target are. It says principalities, powers and spiritual forces of evil in high places. So here's what Christians got to get their head around, guys. Satan is actively trying to get control of all the thrones. So when Christians and pastors say things like Christians should just stay out of politics, guess who's not saying that. Team Satan. Team Satan. So we should be trying to usher in the lordship of Christ. Yes. Into every aspect of society, including politics. Let's keep going.
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B
And I'm not just saying that it's not a Good idea. From a Christian perspective.
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A
From a Christian perspective. I'm not a Christian, but you should totally listen to my Christian perspective.
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I'm saying it is forbidden.
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I think it's worth noting it's not forbidden. We just covered that. It's actually commanded that the more that.
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B
Christians have embraced this pursuit of political power, the more they have embraced political leadership that looks a lot less like Jesus and a lot more like the devil himself.
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A
Yeah, this cracks me up. So, first of all, you got a guy right here who's like, I totally reject Jesus, but you, you should really obey the Jesus that I don't even think is a thing. Okay, what you got? So here's what's happening is he's gaslighting you. The reason I'm covering this right now is it's a midterms year. In 2026, you're going to get this constantly. So let me help you understand this. What he's doing is he's gaslighting you so that the. Think. Think about this. If you listen to him, you're being gaslit so that the only option available left to you is to let them elect leaders who are going to advance evil. That's what they're doing. It's intentional gaslighting so that for you as a Christian, you gotta stay on the sidelines and just let us advance evil while you just watch us do it. So what, this goes back to. So did you notice this? I'm gonna play it for you one more time. Listen to his language, because you're gonna get this thrown in your face constantly. Okay, listen real close to how he words.
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This looks a lot less like Jesus and a lot. This pursuit of political power. The more noting that the more that Christians have embraced this pursuit of political power, the more they have embraced political leadership that looks a lot less like Jesus and a lot more like the devil himself.
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A
Whoopsie daisy. Okay, so again, you're being gaslit. So what this comes back to is a theology and an understanding of what voting is. So again, here's the big idea is a selection is not a sacrament. A sacrament is something like the Lord's Supper, where it's like, man, we don't want any impurity in a sacrament whatsoever. And in a sacrament, we shouldn't. What guys like this do is they want to force you to think of voting like a voting selection is a sacrament. So if you vote for somebody that has any impurity in their life at all, well, you're betraying your Christian faith. But voting a selection is not A sacrament voting is simply choosing the best available option to you. Okay, so here's what you need to get your head around. Especially in 2026 as we head into midterm election year, you're going to get this blitzed for the next year. When you go to the Bible, what you're going to notice is there's three types of leaders. You've got Josiah leaders who are righteous leaders trying to advance righteous causes. Josiah is the king in the Old Testament. He rediscovers the book of the Law, bends his knee to the lordship of Jesus, leads the entire nation in national repentance and revival. He was the type of leader that every mom in Israel could be like, son, I hope you grow up and be like Josiah someday. Righteous leader, advancing righteous causes. Now on the other hand, you have not Josiah leaders, you have Jezebel leaders. And these are unrighteous leaders advancing unrighteous causes. Jezebel and Ahab were like, they're called by the Old Testament as the most wicked leaders the nation ever had. They encouraged the nation towards child sacrifice and open degradation and perversion. They shut down all the churches, they canceled and killed all the prophets. Any of that sound familiar in the last five years? So these are unrighteous leaders advancing unrighteous things. Now where a lot of Christians get tripped up is they think, oh man, there's only two types of leaders, either a Josiah or a Jezebel. And if somebody's not a Josiah, then they're a Jezebel. So I can't vote for them. But in the Old Testament you've got a third type of leader. There's like a dude named Jehu. And Jehu was a flawed leader that was used to do net positive things for the nation. He's the one that casts down Jezebel. He's the one that destroys a bunch of the little sacrifice areas to baal, the little altars to baal, Eliminates a lot, not completely, but eliminates a lot of pagan idol worship. But he's a super flawed dude. So he's a flawed leader that's used to do some good things. Now with those three things in mind, you as a Christian, you need this paradigm in your head. Two things we don't want to do. Number one, we don't want to treat a Jehu leader like a Josiah leader. We don't want to pretend that a flawed leader is some moral paragon and defend every past and present aspect of their character. We don't want to do that. But here's the other thing. We don't want to do. If the choice in front of us is between a Jezebel leader that's an unrighteous person advancing unrighteous causes like infant murder, the redefinition of marriage, transing a bunch of kids, gender mutilation, using the government school system to indoctrinate everybody's kids into unbelief and godless viewpoints of education. All the things. If the choice is between a Jezebel and a Jehu, that should be pretty dang obvious for every Christian. Okay, so again, what you gotta go back to, and this is Rhett's trying to gaslight this. And you'll get thrown this a lot at you. You're getting gaslit. Voting is just the ability to pick the best available path forward. And when you as a Christian vote for whichever set of policies best slows societal decay, you are not, quote, embracing the character in every action of what political leader you voted for. You're voting for policies, not personalities, because personalities come and go, but policies last generations, my friends. Okay, so again, what you should be thinking when you as a Christian are approaching choices like this, I probably should have done this. React. Closer to the midterms is Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount, said, hey, you are the salt of the earth. Notice this. He didn't say, you're the salt of the church. He didn't just say, hey, keep your little thing inside the church. He said, you're the salt of the earth. Salt was a preservative whose goal is to slow decay. So what you, as a Christian should be doing is you should be advocating for political leadership. Whichever set of policies best slows societal decay and lawlessness. That's what you should be doing. So in response to old Rhett here, what Rhett is saying is that the church is getting more political. As all Live Free Nation listeners know, that is not what's happening. The church is not getting more political. Politics are getting more theological and spiritual. When the government in the last few decades moved past things like building roads, issuing driver's licenses, and teaching math to things like redefining marriage, erasing gender, reframing things like infant murder as a moral positive of reproductive rights, and then using the government school system to indoctrinating everybody's kids and grandkids into believing those things, hey, guys, the church didn't move. Politics did. So I'm very sorry, Rhett. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. We keep moving.