Should Christians Speak in TONGUES!? | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Summary

Live Free with Josh Howerton – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Should Christians Speak in TONGUES!?
Release Date: March 2, 2026
Host: Pastor Josh Howerton
Guests: Pastor Paul Cunningham, Carlos Arazo
Location: Lakepointe Church, Dallas, Texas

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Episode Overview

This lively episode addresses some of the most debated issues within Christianity: the nature of prayer, why prayers sometimes seem to go unanswered, and the controversial topic of speaking in tongues. Pastors Josh Howerton and Paul Cunningham, alongside Carlos Arazo, offer biblical insights, personal stories, and practical advice. They also engage contemporary cultural issues, especially around government, socialism, and how Christian conviction should inform public policy.

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Main Discussion Points

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1. The Radical Nature of Prayer: Access to the Father

• Deep Dive into the Lord’s Prayer

  • Jesus revolutionized prayer by inviting believers to call God "Father," an intimacy previously unknown in Jewish tradition.
    • “In the entire Old Testament… God is referred to as Father 14 times. Jesus comes and He immediately… starts praying ‘Father,…Father.’”—Josh Howerton (10:31)
  • Through Christ, every believer gains unrestricted access to God (Hebrews 10).
    • Timestamps:
      • [09:59] - Revelation about the Lord’s Prayer’s closing phrase not originally in Scripture.
      • [11:40] - Temple structure and Jesus as our guide to intimacy with God.
      • [20:11] - Josh’s emotional moment standing on the Holy of Holies site

• Memorable quote:
  “When Jesus died, that curtain was torn. Because now God’s saying—now, Jesus has made [Hebrews 10] a new and living way. Just come talk to me like a kid.” —Josh Howerton (19:45)

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2. Why Doesn’t God Answer My Prayers?

• 8 Biblical Reasons for Unanswered Prayers

  • You haven’t asked (James 4:2)
  • Unconfessed/cherished sin (Psalm 66:18)
  • Doubt (James 1)
  • Wrong motives (James 4:3)
  • Unforgiveness (Mark 11:25-26)
  • Ignoring the poor (Proverbs 21:13)
  • Husbands mistreating wives (1 Peter 3:7)
  • God has something better/His will is higher (Genesis, Romans 8)
    • “God’s will might not seem good to me, but it is always good for me.”—Paul Cunningham (30:54)

• Personal Testimony:

  • Josh’s story of years praying for biological children and God responding through adoption
    • “Sometimes God is not answering your prayer because His thoughts are higher…You’re praying for something and He has something better for you.” —Josh Howerton (29:20)
    • Timestamp: [28:05] - Josh’s Bible note on praying for his wife’s infertility

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3. How To Pray: Practical Guidance

• Prayer Models & Techniques

  • Use the Lord’s Prayer and Scripture as prompts
  • Chris Hodges’ “Tabernacle Prayer” Model—moving through steps modeled on Old Testament temple worship:
    • Thanksgiving → Repentance → Cleansing → Spirit empowerment → Word → Worship → Intercession
    • Timestamp: [50:41] – Step-by-step practical instructions from Josh
  • Combining prayer and Scripture reading; journaling spiritual insights and “God moments”

• Quotes & Tips:

  • “The reason we don’t pray is not because we’re not disciplined enough. It’s because we’re not desperate enough. Prayer is the language of the dependent.” —Carlos Arazo (45:37)
  • “Tweet prayers” and “hinge prayers”: Short, continual prayers throughout the day (59:39)

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4. Should Christians Speak in Tongues?

Clarifying Definitions & Theological Views

• Tongues = “Languages” (glossolalia)

  • Three main biblical categories:
    1. Proof tongues: Speaking in human languages unknown to the speaker (Acts 2)
    2. Private/prayer tongues: Spiritual prayer language for personal edification (1 Corinthians 14, Romans 8, Jude 20)
    3. Prophetic/public tongues: Messages in an unknown tongue requiring interpretation in a gathered setting (1 Corinthians 14)

• Timestamps & Quotes:

  • [60:20] - Opening the tongues discussion
  • [63:13] - Explaining Acts 2 “proof tongues”
  • [65:23] - “I pray with my spirit, but my mind is unfruitful.” (1 Corinthians 14:14)

• Pentecostal Perspective & Cautions

  • Josh and Paul reject the notion that tongues are evidence required for all Christians (“not all speak in tongues” – 1 Corinthians 12:30).
  • Emphasize biblical order:
    • “We’re charismatic with a seatbelt.” —Josh Howerton (70:09)
    • Public tongues must be interpreted; disorder or denial are both unbiblical (71:41)

• Personal Experience

  • Josh shares a vulnerable, unique story about receiving this gift after much prayer, further distinguishing private prayer from public practice.
    • “In the middle of the night…I have this extremely vivid dream, and in the dream, I’m praying in a language I don’t understand…and ever since then, whenever I get caught up in prayer…I'll just start praying in that thing that was given to me.” —Josh Howerton (77:42)
    • Timestamp: [77:32] - Personal testimony

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5. Applying Christian Convictions to Public Policy: Socialism, Government, and Wisdom

• Observations on Society:

  • As godliness decreases, socialism and government control tend to increase.
    • “As godliness decreases, socialism increases. There is an actual spiritual and logical connection between those things.” —Josh Howerton (81:54)
  • Historical trend: Less God = More Government. Spirit-filled living creates less need for regulation and welfare.

• Rights vs. Privileges:

  • Christians historically define rights as “freedom from interference”—whereas progressives redefine “privileges” as positive rights (“entitlements”) requiring provision from others.
  • Choice architecture: How language frames debates and policy.

• Unintended Consequences:

  • Solutions (progressive) vs. trade-offs (conservative/Christian wisdom): Recognizing second- and third-order effects in public policy (e.g., high taxes lead to wealth flight).
    • “Reality’s undefeated.” —Josh Howerton (91:43)

• Separation of Spheres:

  • God designed family, church, and state with their distinct responsibilities.
    • Problem arises when government absorbs roles of family/church, often worsening social issues (e.g., welfare, homelessness).
  • “With governments, you always are going to get more of what you incentivize and less of what you penalize.” —Josh Howerton (95:55)

• Competing Theologies of Human Nature:

  • Christian view: Humans are sinful by nature—thus policies must align with this reality to be wise and effective.
  • Progressive/critical theory: Human nature is inherently good; social problems are structural and fixable by policy.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On prayer and dependence:

  • “The reason someone prays a lot is because they realize how spiritually weak they are and how much they actually need God.” —Carlos Arazo (45:37)

• Vivid illustration of Jesus as our Guide:

  • “I want you to imagine…somebody you don’t know grabs your hand and says, ‘Come with me’…and he’s the Son of the presence of God.” —Josh Howerton (17:21)

• Parable of wisdom and government:

  • “Show me the incentive and I’ll show you the outcome…With governments, you get more of what you incentivize and less of what you penalize.” —Josh Howerton (95:55)

• On the scope of spiritual gifts:

  • “Do all speak in tongues?…No.” —(1 Corinthians 12 summarized by Josh Howerton, 73:04)
  • “The Holy Spirit would never have us use his gifts in a way that undermines his purposes.” —Paul Cunningham (73:49)

• On preventing abuse and disorder:

  • “When spiritual gifts are abused, people usually swing to one of two extremes, disorder or denial. When we talk about the gifts of tongues, we don’t want disorder. We don’t want denial. We want discernment.” —Carlos Arazo (71:41)

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [09:59] – The “missing” ending of the Lord’s Prayer
• [11:40–21:00] – Explaining the intimacy of biblical prayer through temple imagery
• [22:01–32:55] – 8 Reasons for unanswered prayer and personal story on adoption
• [33:05–50:41] – Prayer tips, models, and disciplines
• [60:16–78:33] – Theological and practical discussion on tongues, including personal testimonies
• [78:39–104:49] – Applying Christian thinking to socialism, public policy, and government roles
• [104:50–105:56] – Final prayer for listeners

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Prayer is a unique privilege made possible through Christ—every believer can confidently approach God as their Father.
• Unanswered prayers often have deep-rooted biblical reasons or are a matter of God’s better plan.
• Speaking in tongues is biblical, but subject to clear instruction and not normative for all; discernment and order are key.
• Christians should thoughtfully connect biblical wisdom to every area of life, including citizenship and engagement in public policy.
• Theology matters deeply: your beliefs about God, human nature, and society will shape responses to everything from prayer to politics.

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For more episodes and digital content, visit lakepointe.church/digital

Transcript

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

In every Watch this. Not just societies, but cities. As godliness decreases, socialism increases.

[Carlos Arazo]

The reason we don't pray is not because we're not disciplined enough. It's because we're not desperate enough.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

God's will might not seem good to me, but it is always good for me.

[Carlos Arazo]

When spiritual gifts are abused, people usually swing to one of two extremes, disorder or denial. When we talk about the gifts of tongues, we don't want disorder. We don't want denial. We want discernment. Well, hey, Live Free nation. Thanks for watching today. Hey, here's what you need to know. This podcast is being recorded right here at Lake Pointe Church in Dallas, Texas. But what God is doing here is not just for Dallas. We believe it is for you no matter where you are. Lake Pointe Church Online is a real community, real people, real prayer, real discipleship. And so if you've been listening to the live free podcast and thinking, man, I wish I could be a part of something like that, well, you can. Every weekend we stream live on YouTube, Facebook and our church online platform. And it's not just a broadcast. We've got live hosts in the chat. We've got prayer teams ready to stand with you and clear next steps to help you grow from groups to serving and beyond. You don't have to just consume content. You can belong wherever you are. If you are traveling, deployed or out of state or just checking things out, this is our invitation to you join us live this weekend. We have services Saturday and Sunday. Jump in the chat. Let us know where you're watching from. The link is in the description of this video. We would love to see you at church online. Let us kick this big. Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the live free podcast. My name is Carlos Arazo and I'm here with Pastor Josh Howerton and Pastor Paul Cunningham, AKA Chad G. Paul C.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Let us kick this.

[Carlos Arazo]

Let us kick this pig. Coming to you from Lake Point Church in Dallas, Texas. And today we're going to be talking. Should Christians pray in tongues? We're going to be.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I think we're going to surprise some people.

[Carlos Arazo]

I mean, it's going to be a good one.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I'm going to share some personal stories I don't think I've ever shared outside my fire pit before.

[Carlos Arazo]

I heard some, so I'm looking forward to see.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Well, a singular one.

[Carlos Arazo]

There you go.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Okay, well, go ahead.

[Carlos Arazo]

You're saying there's more, there's more, there's more. We're going to be talking about. What else are we going to talk about?

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Are distracted by speaking in tongues.

[Carlos Arazo]

There we go. This is going to be a good one.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

We're going to talk about. We got the mom.

[Carlos Arazo]

How to pray.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah, how to pray.

[Carlos Arazo]

That's right.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

We're talking about prayer stuff. Deep cuts on the Lord's Prayer. And then we're going to talk. We're going to talk. You are seeing play out in real time the advance of socialistic economic policy. And what we're going to talk about is Christians developing the ability to connect their theology to public policy in ways that they're not good at.

[Carlos Arazo]

There you go, man.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

It's going to be great.

[Carlos Arazo]

That's going to be awesome. Hey, first of all, I want to give a shout out. A live free listener so sent this mug because they heard that my favorite movie is Back to the Future. And Paul didn't know that. Literally everybody else knew that.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

And Paul's like, I'm not sure how I missed that.

[Carlos Arazo]

Paul's like, have you seen Back to the Future?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

And I'm like, you didn't know Carlos?

[Carlos Arazo]

And I'm like, who are you, bro?

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

No, I was like, hey, what's the

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

guy that played Doc?

[Carlos Arazo]

The actor?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah, Christopher something.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Christopher Lloyd.

[Carlos Arazo]

Christopher Lloyd, that's right.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Do you know I met him? What?

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

No way.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Did I tell you this in person?

[Carlos Arazo]

I think you did mention it.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

We're like close friends now.

[Carlos Arazo]

No, stop.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So we were at this, Jan and I on a anniversary. We went to this. It was like a resort in rural England. And we're sitting there at dinner, and I'm like, that's Doc. And we became very close that week. I was walking past him. Yes. I was walking past him all. He looks exactly the same. And I said, hello. And he said hi.

[Carlos Arazo]

Did he say, now we're friends?

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Were you still wearing your Jane?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

He did not. And I wanted to say it, but I did say it.

[Carlos Arazo]

Did you share the gospel, woman?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I did not. I said hi.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Oh, okay.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I said hi.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Is this where you were wearing your Jane Austen gear?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That I was not. Let's move.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Whoever sent this printed in my mind.

[Carlos Arazo]

Where's the camera? Is it here? Oh, is it there? Thank you so much. Because they didn't say who it was. And so I appreciate that. This really blesses me. By the way, this is one of my love languages right here.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

And hey, props to you. I still. I'm still. Have you seen Goodwill hunting yet? Because that was an assignment, I think.

[Carlos Arazo]

I've not seen that one.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Come on, man.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

It's.

[Carlos Arazo]

So should I. Should I actually, at this Point.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

It is your fault.

[Carlos Arazo]

You did warn me, though, that it's. There's some scenes I need to.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

There are some things. Anyways, I. I'm impressed with that. Redeemed some of it because I'm just. My hot take on Back to the Future. At least the first one. Is this just still one of the most rewatchable movies that, like today, it's not boring. It keeps going. It's just one of the top, I'd say 20 movies ever.

[Carlos Arazo]

It's the greatest of all time, in my humble opinion.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Okay, there we go.

[Carlos Arazo]

Hey, we got some. We got some merch that we want to give away. If you are ever in the area, if you're a Live Free Nation listener and you come visit us in person to any of our physical locations, we would love to give you a hat. Come say hi, find us in our first time guest 10. We'd love to meet.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Point Church, Dallas, Texas.

[Carlos Arazo]

Let's go. Also, we want to celebrate. Anybody that we get to meet. We have a couple I want to show a photo of. This is Jason and Miranda. And this is what Jason said. Shout out to Jason. This is what he said. After 14 years, Miranda and I will finally be getting married. God led me to the podcast one random day, and through that, I turned my life to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. A month or so later, during Pastor Josh's sermon, God spoke to Miranda. She gave her life to Jesus. Thank you, brother. Congratulations. We're celebrating with you.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Shout out what you got. Hey, all right, before we move on, start talking about the Bible. Can I. Can I celebrate another thing, please? All right. Honestly, this last weekend was one of, I think, the proudest I've ever been of our church. So one obvious last week preach honestly, a really difficult message on divorce and remarriage. Marriage, divorce, remarriage.

[Carlos Arazo]

You did a phenomenal job.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Thank you.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Seriously, thank you. It was very long, but every now and then you just got to do that, dude. Honestly, in previous times my ministry, I. I would have walked into that sermon knowing I'm going to take it on the chin for the next week. And dude, like, the way the people of Lake Point responded to that, it was just unanimous. It was like unanimous. Just like, we love what the word says. We love the word. And not just that, but submission to it. So here's what I want to celebrate. If you didn't watch it at the end of the sermon, after clearly explaining what God expects when it comes to marriage, you know, we're reaching thousands of young family, young adults, Young families. So there's a bunch of people, very frankly, who are visiting our church that are sleeping together, living together, having kids together that are not married yet. So at the end of the message, after we clearly explained, you know, what God commands us to do because he loves us, we did this thing where we were like, hey, man, we never want to look down on somebody unless we're giving them a hand up. If you are coming under conviction, want to be married, that you realize you need to be married to honor God, we want to do it. And dude, with. I don't know what the number is now, I'm sure it's higher. Within 24 hours of the end of that sermon, over 60 couples, 60 couples had gone, hey, man, we've come under conviction. We want to honor God and what we're doing and had signed up. So we're going to have a big mass wedding at Lake Point here in a few weeks. Obviously, all those people are going to meet with pastors for counsel, all the things. But, dude, I. It's gonna be amazing. I never seen anything like it.

[Carlos Arazo]

It's as if it comes right after the love life series, then the pod, and then this sermon now it's like, that's.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's awesome. Come on, man. Come on. Let's start in families.

[Carlos Arazo]

Hey. Every single week we have a hat giveaway. So to participate in this week's giveaway, comment hat here on YouTube or Spotify. We got some hats for you. And also we get these hats to give away as well. Oh, from.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Dude, those are legit. They're great.

[Carlos Arazo]

Look, check it out. So I'm gonna put it right here. What?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I can't do a flat bill.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

I've tried. Can't do it either.

[Carlos Arazo]

Yeah, Carlos could tell back in the day, maybe today, not sure. And so comment hat. And you will be participating. You can also buy some live free merch at Live Free shop. Or you can text the word hat to 20411. Last thing to find our daily Bible reading plan, plus the weekly sermon, plus an early release of the live free podcast episode, plus a discipleship guide. You can go to the Lake Point church app. You can Text app to 20411 or go to the Apple or Google Play store to get it.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Good job, Carlos.

[Carlos Arazo]

Thank you, Pastor Josh. I have a question for you.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I will allow it.

[Carlos Arazo]

I was waiting for you to say that.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

What?

[Carlos Arazo]

Didn't make it to the sermon.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Dude, I gotta. I started saying that at home and I'm like, I sound like a total jerk for My kids.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

I gotta quit doing just for the Avengers.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah. Wait.

[Carlos Arazo]

No, not really. Oh, you're right. Tony Stark did say. But before that, it's from another show, right?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I think it was. Yeah. This is from the office. All right, anyway, listen. All right, let's get right at it. So obviously, so this week, we was week two of a series we're calling Investigating Jesus. And so each week of the series, we're doing this thing where we're asking a question that is a very frequently asked question about Jesus. Because the gospel we're preaching through the Gospel of Luke. Honestly, man, it's like I'm chopping up Luke and, you know, it's a way to preach verse by verse through a book, and people not even notice. So Luke begins the gospel talking to his one more, a guy named Theophilus, and going, hey, man, I've carefully investigated Jesus, and I want you to understand these things. So this week, what we hit is, if Jesus is real, why didn't he answer my prayer? It's like a very, very real thing. So here in a second, I'm gonna play a Sean Ryan clip that I want to use with a message. So a couple things. Essentially, what we did this week is we preached the. What's called the Lord's Prayer. So a couple interesting things about this. First of all, when you guys were growing up, so in Kentucky, we did the Lord's Prayer, like, before football games. And here's how we would do it. We do it in King James. We would do, our father, who art in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our all the things. And then at the end, what we would say is, we would say, for thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. Okay, that's not in the Lord's Prayer. No, it is not in none of the Gospels. So I grew up always thinking that was in the Lord's Prayer, like, literally. I'm a little embarrassed until this week.

[Carlos Arazo]

I just learned that right now.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Okay, so what happens to people is they'll read, like, they'll read the Lord's Prayer in Luke and they'll think, oh, that must be in the Matthew version. And they'll read in Matthew, oh, it must be in Luke version. Maybe that's in Mark. Whatever. It's in none of them. And what it is, is around the fifth century, some, you know, Christian early church fathers, they grabbed it. That's actually a statement from 1st Chronicles 29:11. And they grabbed it and they sort of like just kind of ghetto rigged it onto the end of the Lord's Prayer. So that's a little interesting.

[Carlos Arazo]

Interesting.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Let me do another one. So, honestly, the biggest thing about this section on prayer is it is a radically. We do not understand how radically disorienting it was for people for Jesus to pray with an explicit Our Father. Okay, so like, just to put this in perspective, some of this was in the sermon. So it wasn't in the entire Old Testament. 39 books. 36, 39 books. 39 books spanning thousands of years. God has referred to his father 14 times in the entire Old Testament. Jesus comes and he immediately, he just starts praying. Father. Father. Father. Father. Father. Now, bro, this is amazing. Let me talk about why this is a really, really big deal. So what I'm getting ready to show you right here, it's not going to make sense. And then when we get done, it's going to make a whole lot of sense. Okay, so here's why this is a big deal. When Jesus starts praying Our Father in Heaven. All right, so throw up that first Holy of Holies pick. So here's what you're seeing. This is in 2019, we went to Israel. Everybody should come at some point. If you go up on the top of the Temple Mount at your. Are you going to be there next week?

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

I'm leaving in two days.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

You're going to see this.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

I won't be here with you. I'll be there.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

You're going to see that in three days. Then if you go over to the top of the Temple Mount, in, in Jerusalem, there is one spot. First of all, Orthodox Jews, some Orthodox Jews, they will not even step on the Temple Mount. The reason is the Temple Mount. The flat structure is where it's called Second Temple Judaism. The Second Temple was there during Jesus time. The reason is they feel like they are unsure where the Holy of Holies was. They won't even step on top of the Temple Mount lest they accidentally tread in wherever the spot was where the Holy of Holies was. And. And you know, that was the death penalty in the Old Testament. All right, now here's what's amazing. If you walk up on top of the Holy of Holies, this is all gonna make sense here in a second. You're gonna see this little pavilion structure with a little octagonal thing at the bottom. Now, most, most Jews think that this structure was built directly on top of exactly where the Holy of Holies stood when the Temple was there. Now, Trinity, can you zoom in on this picture? So this is on the Temple Mount. Oh, good job. That's right. So they think this for a few reasons. So first of all, they know in general where the temple was before it was knocked down. Now, there's a big Muslim mosque called Al Aqsa on the Temple Mount, but there's another part of the Temple Mount where the actual temple was. If you look, it's one of the only places on the top of this thing. Everywhere there's tile, except this one spot. They left this one spot. And you can see on the corner outside of this little octagonal thing, there's this. You can see a spot right there. You see it? Where there's bedrock. Okay? So that's the spot where they didn't tile over where the rock used to be. Now, that's exactly five cubits by five cubits. That's what you've got right there. So it's a perfect square. Now, what they believed happened. So one, it lines up to the exact spot where they think the holy of holies would have been. Okay, Number two is five by five cubits. There's a reason for that. In the Old Testament, what they think happened is there was another stone that they placed because they didn't have the Ark of the Covenant in the second temple. What they think they did is they took another stone that was two by two cubits and they put it on top of that five by five cubit stone that was the same dimension as the Ark of the Covenant, and they put that there. Okay. Now they block this off so that nobody will go in there. And you guys know the whole deal is this was the spot where the Ark of the Covenant stood. At the top of the Ark of the Covenant, there was two cherubs that were fashioned by gold. And it says that the presence of God stayed right there in between the wings of these two cherubs. So, like, just get this in your head. It's all gonna make sense here in a second. So this is the spot where the presence of God himself dwelt. And nobody could ever go there ever, because if they did and walked into God's presence, they would die. There's literally tradition that when once a year, the high priest would go in to intercede for the people, that they would tie a little string around his ankle lest he walked in with any impurified sin and died in God's presence. And then they could pull him out. All right, so just stay with me. This is why this prayer is Amazing what Jesus does here. So if you go back 2,000 years, every part of the temple where you could go was dependent on who you were. So what you had is, first of all, on the very outside, you had something that was called the Gentile court, and that was as far as any Gentile person could go. Beggars, sick, poor people, ceremonially unclean, they could only go to the Gentile court. Okay? There were literally signs. We've showed it before on the podcast. Literally signs posted above the spot from the Gentile court farther in that threatened a death penalty if you didn't belong anywhere inside of the Gentile court. And you went farther, right? So then inside the Gentile court, there was something called the outer court. That's as far as women could go. Okay? Inside of the outer court, there was something called the inner court. And this is where male Israel, the only people go there. Male Israelites were the only people that could go there if they were ceremonially unclean. Total silence. And that was where they made offerings, sin offerings. Okay? Then inside of the inner court was the holy of holies, and you could only go there. Only priests could go there. And that's the spot where you go and you read your Old Testament, and there's the candlestick and the incense that's going up the Table of Presence, that was all in there. And then right in between that thing you just saw and the holy place, it was called the holy place we talk about. This was a veil as thick as your hand that separated the holy place from the most holy place. And on the inside of that, the only person who could ever go there was the high priest. And he could go in one day per year, and only after a whole day of cleansing from sin, they would tie a little rope around his leg. And that's where the Ark of the Covenant was. And the glory of God dwelt between the cherubim. Okay? Now, Jesus comes along in the Lord's Prayer, and he just starts praying, our Father, our dad. Literally, the Greek or Aramaic would have been something like abba, Our dad. Our dad. Our dad is in heaven. And he just starts going, hey, man, do you know what you can do now? You can just walk up and talk to God like he's your dad. All right, now here's the big point. I want you to imagine you get in a time machine. You go back, you get in a time machine.

[Carlos Arazo]

Thank you.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah.

[Carlos Arazo]

I appreciate that.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

And I want you to imagine, let's say none of us are this, but let's say you were a Gentile woman. And you're there, and all of a sudden you're at the temple, and you're on the very outer side. And you're like, man, I can't go into God's presence. And somebody you don't know. I just want you to imagine this, somebody you don't know grabs your hand, and he just says, come with me. And you just start going, wow, I'm not allowed. I'm not allowed. I'm a Gentile woman. I'm not allowed to do that. And he's like, you're good if you're with me.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So then he takes them all the way, you know, takes her all the way, and they go through to the outer court where women are supposed to be. And then he goes, come with me. Even farther. And then he takes you into the inner court, and it's only male Israelites. You're like, I'm not allowed. He's like, you are with your. If you're with me. And then he's go, let's go a little farther. And he still got you by the hand. And he says, well, why don't we go into the holy place? And you're like, well, I'm not a priest. He says, it's okay if you're with me. And then you walk right up to that veil, thick as your hand, and with terror on your face, he pulls that veil to the side. And you know, anybody that's ever entered that thing that didn't belong in there has died. And you go, I gotta go there, you know? And he says, as long as you're with me, you're good. And then I just want you to imagine that you walk in, and right there is the ark of the covenant that only a handful of people have ever seen. And you look right between the wings of those cherubs and you see the face of God. And then all of a sudden, something blows your mind. You look at that face, and then you look at the face of your guide, and you see the likeness of a son in the face of your guide. And you're going boom, boom. And all of a sudden you realize that your guide is the Son of the presence of God, the Son of. And then you get to Hebrews, chapter 10, and it says this. And all of a sudden, the reason that Jesus is saying, you know how you can pray now? You can just talk to God like he's your dad and walk right up to him and you read Hebrews, chapter 10. And it says, therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the most holy place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain that is his body. Because when Jesus died, that curtain was torn from top to bottom. The reason was this next verse. And since we have a great priest, Jesus, over the house of God, let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with a full assurance that faith brings. And all of a sudden it dawns on you that when Jesus died, that curtain was torn. Because now God's saying, now Jesus has made Hebrews 10 a new and living way. Just come talk to me like a kid. And in one of the most emotional moments in my entire life. This right here. Go to that next picture.

[Carlos Arazo]

Wow.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I couldn't not do it. When nobody else was looking. I stepped right over that little octagonal barrier, and that's my feet standing right on the holy of holies, where before the death of Jesus, anybody that stood would die. And I could stand there as a son of the Father. Why? Because Jesus Christ made a new and living way into the presence of God. And now we're sons.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

That's right.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

You can talk to them like kids.

[Carlos Arazo]

Awesome. That's amazing.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

What I love, even as you're saying, is through the blood of Jesus. And that's connected to the idea of the judgment that we deserved fell on Jesus. And that's what this leads me to. Two of my favorite quotes that are connected to this ever, is J.I. packer and his book Knowing God, which, by the way, like, fantastic.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Ever read?

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yeah. As he said, it's one thing to no longer have God as your judge, but it's a whole thing altogether to now have him as your father.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Amen.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

It's like Jesus died, yes, to take on the judgment, but so that he would no longer be your judge. But even more than that.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

That he would now become your father.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right, man.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

And then I love this from Tim Keller. He. He once talked about how, you know, only the child, only a child will go and wake up a king at 3am for a glass of water. And we have that kind of access.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

We have that kind of.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

We have that kind of access. And so it just reminds us of just the grand privilege of being sons and daughters of God and the access that we now have to God through prayer, that we can go into his throne room at any time, just talk

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

to him like a K. Amen.

[Carlos Arazo]

That's right.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Let me kind of do one more thing here, please. All right, so I got it in some services, I Didn't get in all services. So I want to respond to it because essentially, this sermon, it responds to this question that gets raised here. So, by the way, huge fan of Sean Ryan. I'll listen to his stuff. In fact, I kind of hope this makes it to him somehow, because I want to answer his question here.

[Carlos Arazo]

I'm sure he will.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

All right, so check this out. And you're going to hear, essentially, he's asking the question, this sermon response to check this out.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

And I know it's funny, but it's true.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

But, you know, this morning I was

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

reading it and I was a couple

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

days behind, so I've caught up.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

But, you know, I was talking about a common thing in there is it's all. It's always talking about, hand over your problems to me. Hand them over to me.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

He's very handed over to me. I'll take care of it.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

And I was.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I just.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

I just.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I don't understand what that means. I mean, I've got all kinds of problems. I pray for them all the time.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Years, some of these problems.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

And I'm not saying I have more problems or less problems than anybody else. They're just problems, you know, And I pray about them. A lot of them don't get answered. And then I think about it, I'm like, what does that mean? Okay, so he says, what's that mean? I'm praying for something. It doesn't get answered. What's that mean? I would like to. To, as a pastor, respond to Sean's Ryan. Sean Ryan's question. Okay? So a lot of. Lot of people don't know this. The Bible actually lists eight very specific reasons that God might not be answering your prayer. All right? And a lot of people know, like, it's very, very specific. All right? So I'm going to run through these, like, super fast. One, God might not be answering your prayer. One, because you didn't pray the prayer. Like, some people just sit around. Like, I'm just sort of waiting. I ain't asking, but I'm waiting. You know, this is James 4:2. It says you have not because you ask. Not so like, hey, man, we gotta ask. God's a dad. He wants us to ask. All right, Number two, God might not be answering your prayer. The Bible says, because you got un. It says unconfessed or cherished sin in your life. Like, this is a specific thing. Psalm 66:18 says this. If I had cherished sin in my heart, the Lord would not have listened. Okay? Now, I just want to point this Out. It doesn't say if I sin. It says if I cherish sin. So it's like, man, I'm protecting sin in my life. I'm covering sin in my life. I'm intentionally trying to grow and stay in sin, my life. That's what it's talking about. Okay? So if I cherish sin in my life. Okay, Number three, the Bible says that God might not be answering prayers in your life because. Because of doubt. Because of doubt. By the way, I'll just say this. A lot of times, modern progressivism and progressive Christians, they will reframe doubt as like a positive thing.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

It's like a virtue.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah, it's a virtue. Literally, in the Bible, doubt is never. It is never, ever, ever a good thing, ever. James 1 says this, but when you ask, you must believe and not doubt. Because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea blown and tossed by the wind. That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. Okay? So there it is, because of doubt. Number four, the Bible says you might not. God might not be answering your prayers because of wrong motives. So this is James 4. 3. It says when you ask, you do not receive because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures. By the way, this right here is what clears up the confusion about what Jesus means when he says, hey, if you ask anything in my name, it will be done for you. So just real quick, asking something, Praying in Jesus name is not just asking for, like, whatever you want. Like, you know, millions of dollars in Bentleys and vacations and hot girlfriends and then going in Jesus name. Amen.

[Carlos Arazo]

No, no.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

What it means to ask something in Jesus name. Think about the. It's the. It's the. The third commandment. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. That doesn't just mean using God's name like a cuss word. It means not putting God's name on something that's not from God. So when somebody. When God didn't speak to somebody and somebody goes, hey, man, I got a word from the Lord that's taking God's name in vain. In the same way, praying in Jesus name is putting something. Is praying for something that you know is from him. I know Jesus would want this. I'm praying for him. Number five, the Bible says God might not be answering your prayer because you have unforgiveness in your life. Yeah, this is. This is a biggie, man. Mark 11, 25 and 26 says, and whenever you stand praying, forgive if you have anything against anyone, so that your father also, who is in heaven, may forgive you your trespasses. In other words, hey, man, two Christians being reconciled is such a big deal to the Father. Just like with me with my kids. I'm like, I'm not going to talk to you about anything till you get with your brother or sister. God's going, hey, same thing, man. I got one thing I'm willing to talk to you about right now. Get right with your brother, sister. Okay, number six. God might not be answering your prayers because you are ignoring hurting people. This is Proverbs 21:13. Whoever shuts his ears to the cry of the poor will also cry himself and not be heard. Yeah. So God is saying, hey, man, you can't ignore people made in my image and then ask for my help. Okay, number seven, I know this is a weird one. This is only for the husbands. So, ladies, close your ears. You're not allowed to listen. But this is a Bible verse. Yeah. God might not be answering your prayers because you are being a bad husband. Yes, we. This is a verse a lot of people don't. Don't realize. First Peter 3, 7, it says, husbands likewise dwell with your wives in an understanding way, giving honor to your wife as the weaker vessel, as being heirs together of the grace of life. Listen, so that your prayers may not be hindered. So God is literally saying, like, hey, man, you think you're gonna mistreat my daughter and then come and ask me for stuff and we're gonna be good. He's like, no, that's not how this works. It's just like if you were mistreating one of my daughters, it's like, mistreat her and request things from me and I punch you. That's how that triangle's gonna work. It's like, not really, but, you know, now. And then. Last 1, Number 8. God might not be answering your prayers very frankly, because he's got something better.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

That's right.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

And he actually is answering your prayer just in a way you didn't expect.

[Carlos Arazo]

That's right.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So this was super emotional for me this week in message prep. And I got this in some of the service. Now throw that picture up, Trinity, of this note. I ran across this note in my Bible this last year when I was doing my Bible reading plan. And this is in Genesis and right over the verse where it says, and Isaac prayed to the Lord for his wife because she was barren. And the Lord granted his prayer. And right above that verse, I noticed this last year. I Had a. The ink is fading. Because on January 7, 2013, I wrote in my Bible, I prayed this today for Janna because we were eight years into infertility at that point, and that was very hard for Janna. And I prayed for eight years, and it's right there. And God never answered my prayer. And if somebody asked me today, like, hey, man, why didn't God answer your prayer? Very frankly, part of me just goes, I don't know. But I will say this every time I look at one of my three adopted kids or every time somebody walks up to me and Jan in the lobby and they tell us that their family chose to adopt because they were inspired by what they saw in our family. What I think is, I'm glad he didn't. And sometimes God is not answering your prayer because his thoughts are higher than your thoughts and his ways are higher than your ways. And you're praying for something, and he has something better for you.

[Carlos Arazo]

That's right. That's good, man. That's really good. Yeah. I think especially for somebody who becomes a Christian and they wrestle with that idea of, like, man. But like I thought, now I'm supposed to just ask anything and God's supposed to give it to me. I think it's a, you know, a gentle reminder would be, God is a loving father.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[Carlos Arazo]

Not a vending machine.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

That's right.

[Carlos Arazo]

And a vending machine gives you what you always want, and a loving father gives you what you always need. And so if God says no, like you said, it's because he's got something better. And it requires faith for you to trust him, that he's good. And so I think that's why I think Jesus in the Lord's Prayer says, your will be done. And so we tend to think that your will be done means, God, I want you to adapt to what I want. But oftentimes when you pray, your will be done is really, God, help me align to what you want. And because we usually ask things for that, we think, oh, this is. If I have this, it'll make me happy. And that's, God wants you to be happy, but more than that, he wants you to be holy.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

That's right.

[Carlos Arazo]

And so when you are in that spot, there is something to be said about, hey, it takes time for you to work out that muscle of trust and faith that he is good. He is a good father. You can keep asking and you can keep trusting.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's exactly right.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

And I think with that is just have to remember, like, God's will might not seem good to me, but it is always good for me. Yes, it may not seem good to me, but it is always good for me.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right, man.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

I think even though backtracking a little bit, I think maybe just a practical thing that people can do going through that list is like, if your feels like your prayers are hitting a ceiling and they're not getting answered is probably. I would encourage people to just go back through that list that you just gave.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's exactly right.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

And just almost like, okay, like, is there a thing here? And if you find that. By the way, the beautiful thing again is that we have access to God the Father and it says man, actually, First John 1 says that if we will confess our sin, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. So, man, if you find those things, confess them. But then once you've done those, I think it was the first seven, you get to know, hey, it could be that number eight. Now, it could also be weight. By the way, one of the things that I saw as I worked through Genesis this year is often they would pray for a child and God said, yeah, I'm going to give you one. And then they'd have to wait like decades, 30 years.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah, that's right.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

And so it could be you just have to wait.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

By the way, we do not want to get pregnant when we're 70. I'm just going to get that on

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

record in case the clear my prayer. Let me put that in right now,

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

dear Lord, just letting you know.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

But I think with that is this is that idea is like if you get to that last Wednesday, it feels like a note. You have to remember that what might not seem good to you is good for you. And even like I love to like just put some like extra stories to that from scripture. It's like if you're Joseph in the book of Genesis and you've been. Even though if you were a little bit of a turd to your brothers, it's still unjust to, you know, get sold into slavery and then thrown in prison for stuff you didn't do. And he was in slavery, in prison for over a decade of his life. And I have to imagine even though it said the Lord was with him, it probably that that situation didn't seem good to him. And yet at the end, he was able to see what God was doing and had done through it all. And he realized it was good for him and good for his family and good for the whole world because it allowed God to save lives because of what he had to go through. So it's just a reminder that God can be trusted.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

If we knew everything God knows, we would answer the prayer just the way he did.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right, man. That's right.

[Carlos Arazo]

Let's get practical.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah, let's do it.

[Carlos Arazo]

So somebody's like, great, how do I pray? Let's. Let's give some tips, practical applications. Let's do some things.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

You want me to start?

[Carlos Arazo]

Yeah, let's go.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Okay. So I'll do a couple of things. One, one of my favorite stories ever. Do you ever heard that, Paul? I bet you have. You heard the story about Martin Luther with his hair, with his barber? Okay, this is amazing. What. Do you know what the name of that is? See if you can pull it up. See if you can pull the name of that thing up. So this is a true story. Martin Luther got started the Protestant Reformation. Apparently his barber one time was like, hey, man, I'm real bad at prayer. What should I do? And total Martin Luther move. I think he wrote him like, like a 20 page treatise.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yeah. And Peter Beskendorf. Peter Beskendorf was his name.

[Carlos Arazo]

And then.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yeah, yeah. And then he wrote. He wrote. And there's a simple way to pray. I. I finished it. I'm not going to try to German. It really is German. It's a simple way to pray in what I enjoy.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I wanted to go there.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

You're way better at accents, even though sometimes you mix the cultures, you're way better politically.

[Carlos Arazo]

Great. Hey, we're about to. We're not talking about tongues yet, so go ahead.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

We are going to talk about tongues.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

We will.

[Carlos Arazo]

We will. But.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah, I think we very much just went off the rails.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Italians and Germans back together.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Okay, okay. All right. So. So here's. My dad taught me this.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Oh, it's a great way.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Not this thing about the Martin Luther, but the method. So what he did is Martin Luther said. So what some guys will do, dude, is like, honestly, Catholics will do this. I would say don't do this. Well, first of all, let me back up what we don't. Number one, we pray to God.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Now Jesus is our mediator. We can pray. Pray. We can go directly into the presence of the Father. We can pray to God. You do not have to pray to saints. You don't got to pray to Mary. You don't need any mediator between you and God. You can go right in because now he's your dad, that's literally Hebrews 10 is meaning now we've been given a new and living way straight. So that's number one. Number two, my dad taught me this. And he may have gotten it from Martin Luther, because what Martin Luther did for his barber is he went, hey, man, use the Lord's Prayer as a model prayer, but don't just recite it. So, like, what I'll do is, for me, I'm just going to get super practical. There's this. I'm going to. Actually, I'm going to pull it up real quick. There's. You know how in movies they'll say that the. The fifth character is the. The soundtrack?

[Carlos Arazo]

So, sure, absolutely.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

You know what this is? Do you guys use this?

[Carlos Arazo]

It's just like a random YouTube.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

It's called William Augusto. It's called. I think the album is called Soaking in His Presence.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Since you put this out on Social, I've started using it.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Okay.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So I don't know what it is, dude. Maybe this guy prayed over his little thing. I'll. I'll put this on. I got a room in my house where nobody can hear me. I'll put that on. For some reason, I'm just getting super practical. What helps me. I'll put that on and then what I'll do sometimes is I'll use the Lord's Prayer as prayer prompts.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yes.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So, like, it's just get super, maybe vulnerable, you know? So it starts. I'll pray like, Our Father who art in heaven. May God, today I receive a spirit of sonship. Now I thank you that I'm no longer a slave. Thank you for adopting me as a son. Lord, I just want to today just crawl up into your presence and press my head real tight up against the chest of my father and just. I'll just pray it. And then. Our Father who are in heaven, hallowed be your name. And then I'll take a few minutes to say, God, you are holy now. Father, thank you for what you've done for me. You are just. You are righteous. I could spend the rest of my life, and if you never did anything else for me, you've done enough for me to spend the rest of my life giving thanks to you. Hallowed be your name.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Name.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Bless your name, Father. And then he goes, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. And I'll just start praying whatever it is. My Father, please save these people. Father. I'm praying for this unreached people group that we're getting ready to step into over in India. I pray that your kingdom will come, Father. I'm praying against the rising tide of evil and godlessness in our nation. But you can use the Lord's Prayer almost as jumping off points. That's one. I found that to be very, very helpful. Yeah, let's round robin this thing. I may give some other things. What are. What other tips y' all got?

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yeah, I love that one. I mean, I've done the same thing. Lord's Prayer is a great win, actually. Chris Hodges wrote a great book called Pray first, and he's got some model prayers in there. That's, I believe, is one of them, but he's got some others, I think.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Part of the tabernacle prayer.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yeah, the tabernacle.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's my favorite prayer is incredible. That's my favorite.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

I want to steal it from a bit. I just. Part of it is the course. Like, Lord's Prayer is a great one. I mean, it's literally the one he gave us as a model. But there's just. If you can find a model that can get shape to it. Because I think especially as you're learning to pray, but all the way. But even if you've been praying for a while, sometimes it just feels like it's just. You get in a rut. It's a great way to keep you focused and to kind of work through those kind of big categories. That's. That's a big one that I use. I use the Lord's Prayer also. I encourage you. This is a great one to punch. As you talked a few weeks ago about being people of the Word and diving into the Bible. Like when you get. Like when you're reading through Bible, then pray through whatever passage you just read.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yes.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Like, I mean, I was. I was in Psalm 111 yesterday, and it talked about offering thanks and worship in the congregation. So I. I just took a moment and said, lord, when I'm in worship with the people of God this weekend, Lord, would that you let that be authentic? Would you fire me? Would you make us into a worshiping people? Like, I don't have to pray. I'm like, I just a few simple prayers over that verse, and you don't have to do that for every verse. I don't want to make it sound like that. I want to say, like, I saw that something stirred to me and I just said a quick prayer. So I think when you've been combined, when you start combining your reading of God's Word within your prayer to God, it becomes this Back and forth conversation.

[Carlos Arazo]

Here's what I would say, too. I think we think that prayer is primarily us initiating a conversation with God. And obviously that can be true. You can start a conversation with God at any point. But in what you see in Scripture is prayer is primarily us responding to God, who has already initiated a conversation with us.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[Carlos Arazo]

The Bible says that the first one to communicate is actually God. He reveals himself through his Word. He speaks. And so to echo what you just said, this is literally what I do every single morning. I open up the word I read first, and my prayer is my response to what I'm reading, to what God is speaking.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

That's right.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Do that. Like, I'll give an example of this, because when people learn to. Instead of just reading the Word, it's like, I'm praying what I'm reading. Your Bible reading changes radically. So, like, this morning, I'm in second Timothy. I read today the whole book of second Timothy was my Bible reading. So it's. I'm gonna give an example. So it starts. Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus, by the will of God. And dude, what I. Here's how. What I've noticed for me is if I read something and, like, there's an emotion that rises in my heart, it's almost like Deep calls to Deep. It's like the Holy Spirit is prompting something in me, and I'll want to turn. So honestly, man, I read that verse and I just thought, man, like, God, I can't believe you set me apart to be a pastor. And I just. I just stopped reading the verse. I'm one verse in. I'm just like, father, thank you for setting me apart. Thank you that you've set apart Christians from the world. Thank you that you've set me apart for ministry. Father, would you make me a holy vessel? Would you cleanse me from anything dishonorable so that I might be a vessel for honorable use? Lord, is there any. You know, I just prayed it right there. Lord, is there any hurtful way in me? Search me and try me. And it's just like, if you will start reading the Word through the lens of. I'm looking for a prayer prompt from the Spirit. That's when Deep calls to deep.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

And like, with that I love. First John 5:14 says, if we ask anything according to his will.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Then those are answered. Well, how do I know his will? His will through his Word. That's right, through his Word. And so I think that's even connecting. That is like man as I'm seeing these things like, oh, I see what God's was now I want to pray that over myself. I want to pray over my family, over my church. That's even sometimes what I'll do is

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

like, hey, that's right.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

How can I pray this over myself, my family, my church? And even then going out into the world, it's just a really powerful way. Like if you could see my journal right now. I even sometimes divide the page into two. One is just notes and things I'm seeing from the passage and then the other prayers from the passage. I try to do both at the same time.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Dude, now this is a hack. And then I won't come to you, Carl. I'm gonna make you give a tip because you're a man of prayer and I know it. Your wife tells me you're a man of prayer, which by the way, that that is.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

It's a win.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's amazing to have that. Your wife, when you're not around, she'll tell. Like, I'll ask Brooke, I was checking on you.

[Carlos Arazo]

Is he praying?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

No. Hey, is he like, oh, okay, we'll fire that guy. That's a joke. That's a joke. That's a joke. That's a joke. Watch bloggers.

[Carlos Arazo]

Megachurch pastor will fire somebody that doesn't pray in our lives.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Why is this only a 2 second clip?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I'm assuming you here in a second. Now that is like just to get super practical. And here's why. Listen here if you're listening, here's why we're doing this. You will never grow as a Christian, a disciple past your prayer life. So it's like the reason we're getting super practical here is it man, it's going to change you. This is what changes your family. How are you going to be a man that has three generations deep after you're hugging Jesus, that are still faithfully serving God on this planet because you built monuments of prayer for the generations that would come after you when you're gone. So it's like this stuff matters, man. Just to get super practical to what Paul said. Like my prayer life radically changed when I started sitting there with a journal in front of me. And there's two reasons for that. I didn't plan to talk about this. There's two reasons for that. One, very frequently what God will do is he'll speak to you while you're praying. So you guys may disagree with this and this. I'm a, I'm get a little Pentecostal here for a second. So Acts chapter two says. It says, I'm going to pour out my spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters are going to prophesy. We're going to talk about tongues here in a second. It's going to be great. And then it says, your young men will see visions and your old men will dream dreams. Very frankly, what will happen to me? I want to know if this ever happened to you. I've never talked about this before. What will happen to me when I'm praying? If I'm like caught up in a moment of deep and passionate prayer is. It's almost like what's verbal will become visual. This happened to me three or four days ago. And it's like, what I'm praying I'll get a very vivid. It's almost like a spiritual daydream. And I'll give an example of this. A couple weeks ago, I was praying through Gospel of John where Jesus is like, hey, I'm the vine, you're the branches. You can't do anything without me. And I'm praying and I'm just like, lord, I want roots dug all the way deep. I'm praying like, I hope my grandchildren think about their granddad is a man who had deep roots. He was a man of prayer. I'm praying that. And while I'm praying, it's like this very vivid visual. The verbal becomes visual. And I'll just see this almost like a big root or a trunk, and then these little. I know this sounds weird. I'm doing my best here. These little roots, like, growing really rapidly and wrapping themselves around the vine. And honestly, man, there was like a. There was a heat on that thing, and it's like a spiritual daydream. Very frankly, I sometimes think that's what Acts 2 means when it says you're going to see visions. It's almost like spiritual daydreams. You'll be in prayer and the verbal becomes visual. I honestly think sometimes people are having spiritual visions and they didn't even know it because they're having a spiritual daydream. The verbal becomes visual, and by the way, that lines right up with actual verses. So how do I know that it's in alignment with God's will? Because it's in alignment with God's word. That's right. So the reason that it's like a prayer is a total cheat code to sit there with a journal is two things. One, I got the worst attention span in the world. So when I start praying every daggum thing from my whole to do list is right there. I want to pray for my three kids. And I'm thinking about the sermon I got to write and the guy I got to email and the speaking event that I got. So one is helpful. If I can just grab my journal and I'll just, okay, I thought of this to do list item. I don't got to keep it in my head.

[Carlos Arazo]

Boom.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

But then two, when God speaks to you in prayer, write that, Write that stuff down, man.

[Carlos Arazo]

Yes, absolutely.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

You want to be able to go back to that in 10 years and go, that's what God spoke to me.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

That's right.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Carlos, what's your tip?

[Carlos Arazo]

Well, on that note, just real quick, I do have a note on my iPhone, God speaking to me. And this is every single day there's something I need to know. What is God speaking to me today? And so agree to everything you just said, man. I think for me, you know, when I think about my prayer life, I'm legitimately afraid of unaddressed pride in my heart. And so before God, that is a legitimate fear that I have before God. I. I know God opposes the proud and he lifts up the humble. And so to me, once, you know, that for me, that was a game changer. I think one thing that when people say, man, you know, I don't, I want to pray, but I don't have time to pray. I'm really busy. And what a lot of people I think miss is oftentimes lack of prayer in your life is not a time issue. It is a pride issue.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Carlos Arazo]

And so when people want to pray more, but, you know, maybe you're in a business season or my job's kids, like, you know, I don't have time to pray. The deeper issue I believe is, man, we don't realize how much you need God. You actually need him way more than you think. And you know, what people don't understand is when somebody prays a lot is not necessarily because they have a lot of self discipline or because they're really spiritually strong. In fact, the opposite is true. The reason someone prays a lot is because they realize how spiritually weak they are and how much they actually need God. And so the reason we don't pray is not because we're not disciplined enough. It's because we're not desperate enough. Prayer is the language of the dependent. And so when you look at scripture, the Bible says Jesus prayed in the mornings. He prayed all night. He prayed regularly as he withdrew. Often he prayed before miracles. He prayed in crisis. And so if Jesus, who Is the Son of God incarnate? If he prioritized prayer and prayed a lot, how much pride do I have in my heart to think I need less of the power of God in my life than Jesus himself? And so very practically for me is I have to pray in the mornings. First thing I have to do. There's just. If I don't. I know at this point, I know myself enough. If I don't pray in the mornings first thing, it's going to be extremely hard for me to pray later throughout the day. I have to pray in the mornings. First things first. I have a spot in my house I go to every single morning. I always have the Word with me. I always have to write. I use my phone. I have a moment of worship. I started doing this recently, and it's been a game changer where I just play a worship song. By the way, worship music is not my genre of preference. I never. I was not that guy. You know, I've been into, you know, if, you know, a little bit of my past, I've been into, like, hip hop and kind of like the opposite of worship music. Now I do worship music because it. It helps my soul connect, abide with my father. And this. I'm curious to hear what you guys think about this. But I time it so I commit myself every single morning. I have specific time. And for me, that's a. That's a. That's a. That's a.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

A.

[Carlos Arazo]

It's a floor, so. Not a ceiling. So every single morning, you know, it's a spiritual discipline. In the same way that if you go to the gym and, you know, you don't want to go to the gym for 10 minutes. I mean, generally speaking, I shoot for like an hour, but, you know, so

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

those biceps get up to an hour and a half, you might be able to beat him in an arm wrestling competition. Sorry. Hey, I don't go to the gym

[Carlos Arazo]

because I'm physically strong.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

No, no, no, no.

[Carlos Arazo]

I don't go to the gym because I'm physically strong. I go there because I'm physically weak. And I think I better. So let's go, bro.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Let's go.

[Carlos Arazo]

This. So. So. So, yes, I. I time it. I have to time it. And so, like, I shoot for it now. I don't hit it every single time, but it helps me commit. Hey, I'm making a commitment that I'm shooting for this amount of time every single day, and I have a conviction in my heart. You're not praying enough. Because if. If I want to see God move in my life, I ask myself, and what if I doubled my life of prayer? What if I. What if it, you know, if instead of 30 minutes, you do an hour? If instead of an hour, you do two? Like, literally nobody does that, generally speaking. But what if I did? What would God want to give me in that. In those moments? What would he want to do in my life? And I hate the idea of missing out on something that God has for me, on his anointing, his power. And I need it.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Good.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I just want to say that is so God honoring Carlos is why you are the man that you are. And you know what you just said. There is something I don't think a lot of Christians internalize. You have not. Because you asked not. Dude, everybody just needs to get in their spirit. Like every one of us as a man. We got kids. We're gonna have grandkids, God willing someday. And what we want, we want people with our last name to be. Be throwing haymakers to the kingdom when we're all gone. There are things that God is willing to do that God wants to do that God has not yet done because we have not yet prayed. That is a simple biblical fact. So why would we not? Why would we not? Yeah, Let me do this. You want me to do this one last thing right here?

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Carlos Arazo]

All right, Live free nation. Listen up. This is one of our favorite weekends of the year. March 21st and 22nd is free t shirt weekend at Lake Free Lake Point Church. And yes, we're talking free T shirts for the whole family, all campuses, youth and adult size. All you got to do is just show up. And here's why this matters. This isn't about free merch. It's about mission. You put that shirt on and you're representing what God is doing through Lake Pointe Church. You're showing people you're not ashamed of your faith. And when somebody asks you about it, that's your moment. That's your open door to say, hey, you should come with me to Easter. It's one of the easiest ways to represent Jesus and invite someone to church without it being awkward. This, by the way, is an in person only event and shirts are first come, first serve. So don't roll in late, get there early and grab yours while supplies. Last March 21st and 22nd, free T shirt weekend. Let's wear the mission. Let's invite courageously. We will see you there.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

All right, so last thing I'm going to talk about this tabernacle prayer thing and this. Just listen if you're listening and you're like, ah, it's just this. This right here just. It completely changed my prayer life. So when it's warm enough, what I do is I take a walk in the morning, and this is how I pray. It takes me about 30 minutes. It's not the whole day. This is how I do it. So I got this from old Chris Hodges. And what you got is in the Old Testament, you've got. There was a way to approach God. Obviously, we just went through them earlier. There's, like, you know, phases of the temple, and when you were trying to get into the holy of holies, and you're trying to get in the presence of God, you would pass through these parts of the temple. Well, the Book of Hebrews says that everything that was written, you know, in the past in the Old Testament was written as a model and a pattern for us. So what Chris Hodges did is he turned this into a pattern for prayer. And I will say, man, unless you are the type of person I've never met before, having a mental model and map, it keeps your mind and your spirit focused and moving. Like, I'm just kind of guy, dude, I'm gonna get. Honestly, I'm just gonna be honest. I'm gonna get bored, and my mind's gonna wander if I don't have something in front of me. It's like, okay, here's my. You know, here's. Here's my model. Okay, so here's the way it did. Just let me run through this real quick. And if you're listening, we're gonna stick this in the show notes, study guide, whatever we call it now. Whatever. Third time's a charm. We're gonna stick this in here. What I have done is I've got a note on my iPhone with each of these, and then I will put verses that correspond to each of these in the iPhone note. So I'll be taking my prayer walk. I have the iPhone note up, and I'll pray the verses that correspond. Now let me explain it. Okay, so when you came to the temple, first thing was the outer courts. Okay, well, the Bible says to enter his gates with Thanksgiving. So that's how you start. Start. I'll just. Okay, Lord, I'm here to enter with Thanksgiving. And I'll just think. I'll stop. Think. What are. What's every blessing that I experienced yesterday? And I want to make sure that, you know, Jesus healed the ten lepers. Only one came back and said, thank you. And every day, almost every day, I say the same thing today, Lord, I'm gonna be the one. Every single thing you gave me yesterday. Thank you for that sweet time with Hudson before bed, man. Thank you for the, you know, the incredible generosity of the people, just, you know, that kind of thing. Lord, thank you for. What was it I was praying for yesterday, man? Lord, thank you for that conversation I had with Jana where he talked about. Thank you for my house. Thank you all those things. Okay, enter his gates with thanksgiving. Then the next thing you would encounter as soon as you walked in, the first thing you would see in the temple was the bronze altar where sin offerings were made. So here's how I do it as I roll right into thanking God for all the stuff he gave me into. The biggest thing I'm thankful for is the sin offering of Jesus Christ on the cross. So then I'll just start praying, man. Father, thank you for Christ crucified for sinners, man. Thank you that your word says that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness or remission of sin. But thank you that with the shedding of blood there is a guarantee of forgiveness and remission of sin. Thank you that there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Thank you that. You know, I'll just. Here's how I pray. I'll just start praying. Thank you that there's old hymns. I'll start praying. Thank you that five bleeding wounds he bears received on Calvary. They pour effectual prayers and they strongly plead for me, forgive him, oh Lord, forgive him, Lord, forgive. They cry. Forgive him, Lord, forgive. They cry, don't let that ransom sinner die. So I'll pray these things. Then as you moved farther into the temple, the next thing the priest would encounter was called the laver. It was this little thing that was like mirrors almost, with water in it. And they would cleanse themselves. And this is the spot where now I'll just start praying. If there's any unconfessed sin in my life, I'm praying it. But then here's the big thing I've started doing is I'll just start. They would wash parts of their body. I've started going body part by body part. So I'll just go. Lord, today I want to have the mind of Jesus Christ. Father, would you concentrate my mind to set my mind on things that are above and not the things of this world? Father, today I give you my eyes. I have made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at a woman. Father, my eyes are yours today. Lord, I Consecrate my tongue to you. I pray that there would not be one word of cursing that would come off my tongue, that it would be used to bless and not curse. I'll just go through. Lord, I pray that you. My hands. Lord, I got work to do today, and I got a lot of work to do today. Would you please multiply the work of my hands? I set them apart for you. Well, then the next, as the priest would go in. So if you're listening, here's what you want to do. You want to get these down and then just use these as. Start with 30 seconds. Yeah, don't start long. Start with 30 seconds. I'm going to pray through each phase because there's a way to enter God's presence. Okay, so then the priests, after the labor, they'd go into the holy place, and the first thing I would see was that seven prong candlestick. And everywhere in the Bible, by the way, when you see fire and smoke, that's almost always a symbol of the Holy Spirit. So that's where what I'll do is. There's a passage in Isaiah 11 that talks about the sevenfold Spirit of God, a spirit of wisdom and might, a spirit of, you know, as it goes through seven different things. And I'll pray through that. Sometimes I'll pray through the fruit of the spirit. Father, would you make me a man? Make me a father and a pastor today of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness. Sometimes I'll pray for the gifts of the spirit. Spirit, eagerly pray for the gifts of the Spirit. We're going to talk about speaking, praying in tongues here in a second. What that does and doesn't mean I'll pray for all those things. And it says especially that you may prophesy. And so I'll literally just be like, lord, I especially want to prophesy today. Would you give me a word of encouragement for somebody? So that's the next one. Well, then the next thing they would see is it was called the table of showbread, and there was these little loaves on there. Well, you get to the New Testament and Jesus goes, man does not live on bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. So the word of God is actually like bread that feeds our soul. And this is where what I'll do, and I'm not saying you got to do it, is I'll be on my prayer walk. I'll pull up my Bible app, and then I'll take the two chapters that I'm going to read, and I'll read them on my prayer walk, and then I'm turning verses into prayer while I'm praying. So I'm doing that. Then the next thing they would see is the altar of incense as they went a little farther in. That's a representative of worship. And so sometimes I'll pause, I'll find a quick worship song or a hymn. I'm a hymn guy. I just like hymns. So I got, like, iPhone notes with my favorite hymns and all their lyrics. And on my prayer walk, as long as nobody else is around, I'll just. I'll just be singing, you know, my

[Carlos Arazo]

favorite hymns in Christ alone.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That is one of them, actually. Yeah, I'll be singing it. And then the last place after the altar of incense, holy of holies. And this is really important. When the high priest got into the holy of holies, they weren't in there just to be like, oh, great, now I'm just enjoying your presence. Their job was to be in there on behalf of the people. So that's where for me, I'll start going, I'm in the presence of God now. I'm praying for everybody that's not with me right now, and I'm mediating for them. So that's when I'm praying for Jana. I. I'll work my way down. I'm praying for Jana. I'm praying for my three kids. I'm just gonna be really vulnerable with you. I'm already praying for the future spouses of my three kids. I'm praying for people in the church. I'm praying for friends. But I'll go through that little. I know that was long, but that's like, this little pattern I'll use.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Well, even like, not deconstructing, but basically, like, almost examining what you just did is like, imagine if some people were listening.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Like, man, that's a lot.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

And what I wanted to just point out is you were just rattling those things off and then saying verses just off the top of your head, and it's because you've been doing them for a while. I sometimes like to use with this, whether it's tabernacle prayer, using the Lord's Prayer, any of these, as. At first, it's like, if you've ever learned to play golf, it feels really mechanical. Learning how to swing.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah, this is a great analogy.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

I took lessons a few years ago. I need to go back and take more. But literally, when I took lessons, he put these straps in my arms that made me swing in a certain way, and it felt really constricted. And he just had me build the swing a thing at a time. He's like, all right, now I just want you to go back to here. And he would correct it and do some things. At first, it felt really constricting, and it felt really mechanical. But what happened is the more I did it over time, it just felt natural. I was just swinging a golf club. And the same thing, as I say in any of these models, at first, it's probably going to feel a bit more mechanical, and you're going to have to look up the verses, you're going to have to look at the songs. But what will happen is the more you do it, you're just going to be praying.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

And so I tell people, like, you know what? The best way to learn how to pray is to pray, to pray, to pray, and to do it the last thing. And I know we got to get to speaking in tongues. I say, hey, this has been like a model. I'd also say a good little thing that I like to do to incorporate prayer throughout all my day, which. Cause Paul literally says. He says pray without ceasing. And that obviously can't mean that we literally every second of every day. But it's like weaving prayer into our day. I call them either tweet prayers or hinge prayers. Tweet Elden school. And it was 140 characters or less. Oh, sometimes I wish that would come back in the day.

[Carlos Arazo]

Old school is.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

I've just learned, like, you know, repairs don't have to be long. I think now we even call them matchstick prayers. It's like, sometimes throughout a day, I'll just say a brief prayer, and it could be that I'm walking by someone, I'm like, hey, Lord, would you just bless that person? It seems like they're down. Saying quick prayers and then hinged prayers is the idea of, hey. The hinges of my day are the transition times of my day. When I'm going from work to home, when I'm going from one meeting to the next meeting, If I would just take even again, it doesn't have to be five minutes. It can be 15 seconds. Say, God, thank you for being in that meeting. Would you give me wisdom for my next win? Guys, I'm going home. Would you fill me with energy so I can pour my kids? That's just a thing. If you can incorporate short prayers throughout your day, that's a part of how you become a man or a woman of prayer prayer.

[Carlos Arazo]

Should Christians pray in tongues?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

He just went for It. There it is. There it is. Okay, Talk about this, because it is one of the most. Honestly, it's probably not even close. One of the most frequent questions we get anytime we talk about prayer.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yep.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So let's talk about it. And I. I want to share some things. Paul, do you want to walk us through real quick? Like, let's. Let's do. Let's get theological. Put on our thinking caps real quick here. Let's do a fast. Yep. Give us. Give us like a quick theological outlay of different views of this, and then I'm gonna talk about. I'm gonna talk about what I.

[Carlos Arazo]

The right one.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Well, with that, I'd say we. One thing to help, I think, take some of the quote unquote weirdness off. This is the word tongue in the original language just means language.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yeah. It just literally means language. The reason why often the word tongues are used is because we maybe don't want to make people think, oh, this is a language like Spanish or French. It can mean that. I'll get to that here in a second with the views. But that's part of the reason why I do think it helps take some of the weirdness off. So let me talk about two broad views in terms of do they still exist or not? And then I'll talk about three views of what tongues are. You've got two broad views of if they exist or not. One is cessationism. Cessationism is the idea that gifts like speaking in tongues, prophecy, healing, were for the time of the apostles, but after the apostles died and after Scripture was closed and it was written, they ceased. So they no longer authentically, by the

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

way, that's why it's called. Called cessationism.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

It ceased.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Ceased.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

It ceased.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So and they, by the way, they view any of those gifts as quote, unquote, sign gifts.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yeah, sign gifts.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

These are gifts only the apostles got as a sign to the watching world

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

of their apostleship to authenticate their. Their authority and their message.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

12 dudes. 12 dudes only. Actually 13. Then you have.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Continuationism is kind of the same thing as the idea of these gifts. These specific gifts continued after the time of the apostles. So that's kind of the views in terms of are they existing still or not. In terms of specifically tongues and what those are, there's really three broad views. I just say. I would go as far as say there are three types of tongues in Scripture. Proof tongues, prophetic tongues, and private tongues.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Okay, hang on. Can I. That's. Wait, Say that one more time.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Proof. Tongues, prophetic tongues and private tongues.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Okay, Can I. Let me do something real quick. And then I want to. You can dovetail this. I want to say. So here's what I'll give my. Here's how I view this. Yeah. And then I want to see if you're going the same way. So essentially what Paul's alluding to is there's one word. This is where Christians get tripped up.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yes.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

There's one word in the New Testament that we, I think we both believe means three different things. Exactly. So the Greek word is glossolalia. This is really important. Okay. So this word that gets translated, tongues. People say speaking in tongues comes from the Greek word glossolalia. I think it means three different things. I want to see if you think the same thing.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Okay, sorry.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So number one, you got it means that word is sometimes in the New Testament used to refer to preaching in other languages for the purpose of cross cultural evangelism.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yes.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So for instance, this is what you have in Acts, chapter two. It talks about them. Now we're hearing them in our own languages. There's a bunch of like rural Hicktown, Nazareth guys. It'd be like.

[Carlos Arazo]

It'd be like somebody from Kentucky speaking French.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah.

[Carlos Arazo]

Or German.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

It'd be like a kid from rural Kentucky speaking fluent French.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

There's no way that you know it,

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

but you know saying it. And that.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

That's a proof tongue because it is part of proof. Like the people that were hearing the apostles at Pentecost were like, wait a second.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

What is. They were all. And they were amazed. It helped authenticate the authority and the authenticity of what they were saying.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Not only authenticate, but communicate.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yeah, communicate. Because they can hear both ends, dude.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I'm going to give an example of this. So Jack Hayford, this is. This is recorded in R.T. kendall's book Word and Spirit. By the way, strong recommend if you're wanting to deep dive Theology of the Holy Spirit. R.T. kendall's book Word and Spirit is fantastic. So he records this. Jack Hayford, who is a man of integrity. Jack Hayford is kind of that. This is not a guy that makes stuff up. No. So Jack Hayford, he records this story. He's on a plane and he all of a sudden gets this like uncontrollable urge to utter syllables to the guy sitting next to him that he doesn't. He didn't know what they are. So I'm going to read what it said. Felt led to utter a tongue to the person sitting next to Him. He dreaded doing it and tried to avoid it, but it was on him. The desire was on him so strong he gave in, turned to the man next to him, and uttered a strange set of syllables he did not understand. Now, first of all, I can't even imagine doing it. That takes some guts. And let me just say, like, well,

[Carlos Arazo]

he couldn't help it, right? Like, he didn't want to do it, but he did it.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

He did. That's. That happened. So let me say, if you're a weird person that's prone to emotional outbursts, I do not recommend just going with every. But this will happen to him, okay? However, this is how it concludes. However, the man next to him was an Indian who turned to him and said, you have just said words that only my tribe speaks. Okay, so that's number one. It's. It's preaching the gospel in languages you don't know.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Number two, I think you've got a private prayer language in First Corinthians 14. So. And listen, I'm just. I think it's going to take a pair of scissors to get this out of the Bible. I'm going to talk about this here in a second. So you have First Corinthians 14, 14. This specifically says, I pray with my spirit, but my mind is unfruitful.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

And then with that, people rebel against this so much, but it's. I'm like you, Mike. You have to cut it out. And it's so hard to explain. Like, Paul in verse 18 says he speaks in tongues more than all the Corinthians, who, by the way, were speaking in tongues a lot.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

They were going, yep.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

But in the next verse, he says, but I would rather in the church speak five intelligible words than 10,000 words in a tongue. So in other words, he's saying, when I'm in church, I don't really do this. So then the question is, if he has done it more than any of them, but if he doesn't do it in the church, then where exactly is he doing this?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

And it seems very obvious in private, it's in his prayer closet.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Because also in verse two of that chapter, you see that speaking in tongues is primarily not only, but primarily prayer and praise to God.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right. So this is. I'll say this is. And this is my view. This is also what, for instance, Romans 8 means when it talks about the Spirit intercedes with us with groans too deep for words. If you tie that passage to Jude 20, there's only one chapter in Jude. So Jude 1:20, it's Jude 20. It specifically says, hey, build up your faith. And it says, by praying in the Spirit. Well, if you go to Romans 8 and it says, man, the Spirit intercedes with us for. With us for. With groans too deep for words. I think what Jude 20 and Romans 8 are talking about is sometimes a person with the gift of tongues in terms of prayer language, they will be so overwhelmed with something the Spirit is birthing in their heart to pray for that. It's too much for normal human words. And so they pray in the Spirit and it builds their faith. I also think. I think. I don't know if you're. I'm actually curious. It's okay to disagree with me. I think when Paul gets to 1 Corinthians 13 and he opens up first, Corinthians 13, and he says, if I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am nothing. I think what Paul's doing is he's acknowledging the reality that in the Corinthian church. I want to know if you agree with this, that in the Corinthian church, when they had a private prayer language, their understanding of that was, I think I'm praying in the language of angels, the language of heaven. And Paul's going, that's great. Hey, you are doing that. That's great. But there's actually something that's even more important, that you're a person who operates in love.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

That's right.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So I think, number two, you've got that. You've got that. Okay, I will say this. What some people do, my Pentecostal friends, that I will gently disagree with, and they'll disagree with me and we'll still love each other, is they will say that praying in tongues is the evidence. In fact, I think the language they use is the initial physical evidence of being filled with the spirit. I disagree. Yeah, I disagree. You have examples in the Book of Acts where people are filled with the Spirit. They do. They are not recorded as speaking in tongues. And what the Book of Acts says is evidence of being filled with the Spirit is evangelism. That's if you want to know if you're filled with the spirit, do you become somebody who is rabid in reaching

[Carlos Arazo]

one more power to be a witness?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yes. It says, but you will receive power. Acts 1:8. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you and you. It doesn't say, and you will speak in tongues. It says, and you will be my witnesses.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Right.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Okay. And then the third one I'll just say is it appear third use of time. I want to know if this is what you think third thing that glossolalia can mean in the New Testament is it seems like at least pre canonization of the New Testament that sometimes God would in a like a house church setting, he would like download a word of prophecy to somebody and then he would also give somebody else in the room an interpretation of that prophecy. And that was almost like a two key system to authenticate. Hey, that's actually from the Lord.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yeah, that's what I was referring to as prophetic tongue. And so like I think in 1st Corinthians 14 you see both definitely obviously private prayer language. But I think you also see in 1st Corinthians 14 where he's saying hey, if you're doing this in the gathered like gathering of the church, but again in homes, that's part we have to remember is that applying this modern day churches is so difficult because of the other principles Paul gives. But I think he then says there has to be an interpretation.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

And if you go Back to the first part of First Corinthians 14, he talks about words of encouragement and pray and prophecy and teaching. So I think that's what it's talking about is on certain occasions these people are getting some kind of a prophetic or encouraging word in the church but is for the purpose of building up the church. But it is in an unknown language that the people do not understand.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right. That's good.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

So yeah, so I'm right there with you.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So I'll give away.

[Carlos Arazo]

No, no, no, keep going. I'll add some color but I'll let you get finish.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I, I'll just say like as far as rules go. Yeah, I will just put, put the SO one. I think some people make the mistake of that. They're too essentially I would say they're too against something that is clearly bib. It's biblical, man. It's right there. It's going to take a pair of scissors to get out of the Bible. We literally have a verse that says do not forbid speaking in tongues. Like that's literally a Bible verse. Okay. On the other hand, I think some people, they're a little too liberal with it and they'll get in services. I know some people disagree with this but this is how we approach it here we're charismatic with a seatbelt and here's the seat belt is we got specific commands in the book of 1 Corinthians 1 Corinthians 14 that says, hey, man, this is not something for you to do publicly, because if you do it publicly, people are going to think you're out of your mind. And he's talking about a private prayer language or if you've received, quote, unquote, a word of prophecy. Yeah. And there's not interpreter. I'm going to read the verse. If anyone speaks in a tongue, two, or at most three, should speak one at a time, and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God. So if I'll just. I'll just say this. If you're planning to, after you hear this podcast, roll up into a Lake Point service and start speaking in tongues in the middle of service. We will gently escort you out. Or we'll tell you not, because we got Bible verses for how that should and should not happen on the church.

[Carlos Arazo]

Let me just add, basically echo what you just said. So this is what happens when, you know, a normal person kind of tries to make sense of this. When spiritual gifts are abused, people usually swing to one of the two extremes, disorder or denial.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yeah, that's good.

[Carlos Arazo]

Disorder. This is out of my back pocket. For the charismatic circles, everything goes. No boundaries, emotion over edification, experience, elevated authority. And then on the other extreme is denial. This is the our associationist friends hyper reform circle. Shut it down, ban it, forbid it. It's not a thing. That's, you know, Paul in 1 Corinthians 14. He refuses both. So he corrects the disorder, verse 40. Let all things be done decently and in order. But he also guards against denial. Do not forbid speaking in tongues. And so when somebody's trying to figure out, man, what do I do with this when I see it, when I don't see it. When we talk about the gifts of tongues, we don't want disorder. We don't want denial. We want discernment. And when you see somebody, maybe use it, or you're in a church setting or you see somebody, or maybe you're, you know, maybe speaking in tongue. You want Holy Spirit, whatever it is you want, have for me, I want it. If it's a gift for me, I want it. And help me distinguish between what is true and biblical and what is not.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

That's right.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Well, last thing I'll say is, and we specifically have a verse, this is not a spiritual gift. Everybody's going to get. No. So I. I'll read this. This is 1 Corinthians 14. Actually, it's 1 Corinthians 12. They're all rhetorical questions. So Paul's asking a series of rhetorical questions. He goes, are all apostles? Now, what's the implied answer? No.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

No.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Are all prophets?

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

No.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Are all teachers?

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

No.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing?

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

No.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

And then he says, do all speak in tongues? And the obvious implied answer is no. No. Yeah.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

And I think with that is, as people are discerning, this is really just out of what you're saying. It's like for our friends who are more with us, the continuationist, but then who are kind of like, oh, well, I'm just going to do whatever I want. Like, no, no. Like, the Holy Spirit would never have us use his gifts in a way that undermines his purposes. Go, yeah, ever. And his purpose is to point people to Jesus and to bring unity to the church. And so often people use this gift in a way that is divisive or distracting. I'll give you some more dads, the ones that you gave us. Divisive or distracting. And so at that point, it's like saying, no. Like, actually, Paul would say, like, the spirit. Like, the spirit of a prophet is basically, you can subject. Subject to the prophet. In other words, like, you can control it.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

You can control it.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

But then I would say for those who are still resisting, you know, people like, well, it's been abused. I'm like, and so has preaching, and so has evangelism, and so has every other spiritual gift that is listed. The abuse of something does not negate the right use of it. And I'll just be honest, I'll try to say this in love. The case that people try to make biblically, that they have seized is one of the flimsiest, weakest arguments I've ever encountered. And it's just. It's not there. It's just not there. And so I just say, hey, like, to me, when you say charismatic with a seat belt, that throws in, like. And I hope this doesn't sound arrogant. I don't mean to be. But, like, when I've heard you say in the past, I'm like, well, you just mean a biblical Christian. Yeah, to me, that's just biblical Christianity is that you're saying, hey, the gifts are there, there. We should use them if we've been given them, but we should also use them according to biblical guidelines. That simple.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[Carlos Arazo]

That's great, man. Any final words on tongues?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So let me. I'll give a little. I've never shared this before. Yeah, Can I give a little personal.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

You mentioned that earlier.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Okay. So this is not a gift that I've ever experienced. I had ever. I had ever experienced before. And so I, you know, I honestly, the same thing. I'm doing my Bible study, and I come to this conviction, like, oh, this is like. Like, this is a thing. It's going to take parasit. Get out of the Bible. So I'm studying this thing, and I'm reading a book by Martin Lloyd Jones. He's an old Presbyterian super theological guy. Book's called Joy Unspeakable. It's about being filled with and gifts of the Spirit. Is Reformed Presbyterian. Perspective is really good. While I'm reading it and I'm coming to this conclusion, honestly, man, there's like an agony. I'm taking my prayer walks. The only way I can describe it is like an agony began to build in me. Like an agony. And it was this thing where I was like, lord, if there is anything that you have on offer for me that I have not experienced, I want all of it. And so I just start asking him, like, if this is a thing. I really. I want that. I don't know what it is. I want this, you know? So I'm praying for it.

[Carlos Arazo]

It.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I've got a pastor buddy that is a. A sane, charismatic. That's what I'll. You know, I'll say it that way. It's kind of like, you have to say, like a fun Presbyterian or Baptist. Well, he's the sane charismatic. And. And I. I won't say. I won't say who he is, but he's a. He's a godly man. So I literally. I paid for a plane ticket to fly to and from him in the same day. Literally, just. I was like, can I get 30 minutes your time? I just want you to pray for me that if God wants me to exercise this gift, that he would give it to me. And I go up there and he prays for me. He's like, josh, if this is something that you feel like God's doing to you, I just want you to. If you feel like something's happened, just do it. And we're there praying, and nothing happens. It's like, nothing. I'm, like, weeping. Like, I'm not a big. It's real weird. I'm not a super. I'm not a crier. Except when I pray. I've never understood that. I start praying and the tears start flowing. So I'm like, begging God for this. So then he explains to me, hey, Josh, sometimes Guys like you who are a little more theological, you're a little more heady. He's like, there's a reason that verse says, I pray with my spirit, but my mind is unfruitful. And you. You can't get your mind to stop being unfruitful. And so he just said. He said, hey, watch out, because sometimes God will do something to you to bypass your mind, to teach you to pray with your spirit. And I was like, okay, whatever. I never shared this before. It was like three days later, in the middle of the night. It's like 2am I have this extremely vivid dream. And in the dream, I'm praying in a language I don't understand.

[Carlos Arazo]

Spanish.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I don't know. Maybe you, like, totally killed the mood of this.

[Carlos Arazo]

I'm so sorry. I apologize. I take it back.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

I'm with you, Pastor Josh.

[Carlos Arazo]

I'm with you.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

No, no. I'm praying, and it's, like, very. It's very, very vivid.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

And in the middle of that dream, I wake up. And whatever you want to call them, syllables, utterances, whatever you want to call them, they're just seared into my soul. And I, like, just wake up and I just. I'm doing it. I'm just praying, I think. Praying in the spirit. And ever since then, whenever I get caught up in prayer and it's just like. Like it's more than I have words to express. Groans Too deep for words. I'll just start praying in that thing that was given to me, and I think that's what's happening. And guess what happened? Why did God have to do that in the dream? Because he had to bypass my mind so that I could pray with the spirit.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Good.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

There you go.

[Carlos Arazo]

That's good.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Hard emotional gear shift. You want to talk about Mom, Donnie and socialism?

[Carlos Arazo]

I suppose we have to do that.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I do want to talk about this.

[Carlos Arazo]

Let's go. Let's do it. But then, by the way, thank you for sharing that.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yes. Hey, thanks for your vulnerability.

[Carlos Arazo]

That's amazing. Praise the Lord for that.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Okay. Yeah.

[Carlos Arazo]

And then what God does to you, he can do it with us and for the people listening.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[Carlos Arazo]

That's a gift really given.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Okay, let's do this real quick. So I've been seeing this stuff on. Actually. Okay. I've been. We've been seeing this stuff that's going on in New York City. And by the way, you're seeing it in a bunch of cities right now. You're seeing the rise of a massive. At least socialism Light, movement, whatever you want to call it, rising. You're already starting to see not just his popularity, but his fruit. Okay, so I want to give, let's give some examples. You want to start with this Mamdani clip?

[Carlos Arazo]

Yeah, there's a couple.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So if you don't know this. So what we got is Zoram Hamdani. He's a Muslim socialist. He's actually using explicitly communist language. We've covered this before on the podcast. So he gets elected just like always happens with socialists and communists on a series of promises about every everything they're going to make free. Okay, and then you know what somebody, I've heard it said before that the greatest enemy of progressivism is reality. So then he gets elected and then let's start here and just show what happened. And then here's what I want to do. I want to teach Christians to think and apply their Christian convictions to even things like economic policy and how we think about society. Okay? So let's give an example of this and let's start right here. Here is what we stand for, my friends. We are going to freeze the rent for more than 2 million rent stabilized tenants. Hooray. And use resource at our disposal to build housing for everyone who needs it. Anyone. We are going to eliminate the fair on every single bus line and make what are currently the slowest buses in the nation move around this city with ease. And we are going to create universal childcare at no cost to parents so New Yorkers can raise their family in the city they love. A few moments later. In order to get to this point of closing the gap on both this fiscal year and the next fiscal year, we are forced to raid the rainy day fund, the retiree health benefits trust reserve and to increase property taxes across these other years. All right, so like, all right, so everything's free. We're gonna make housing affordable. Buses are free, government controlled grocery stor. It's all going to be low cost and it's all going to be free. And then immediately, like within months of getting elected. Man, I'm really sorry. We need to raid billions of dollars or hundreds of millions of dollars whatever from the rainy day fund. And we need to raise your property taxes 9.5%. So what you're getting here is the greatest enemy of progressivism is reality. Now first of all, let me just explain a few things because Christians need to get their head around this. You will notice that in every watch this. Not just societies, but cities. As godliness decreases, socialism increases. Now most Christians, they never think about that and they don't understand there is an actual spiritual and logical connection between those things. That is always true.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yes.

[Carlos Arazo]

Interesting.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Historically, globally, whenever godliness decreases, socialism increases. Why? Okay, well, there's two reasons for that. First of all, when you subtract God from a society, then the government becomes God. Somebody's got to be at the top of the org chart. So you subtract God, government becomes God because God was the highest authority. Now the government's the highest authority and people start looking to the government to do what Christians historically trust God to do. So there's a reason for that. But you also notice this, we've never talked about this before. On the podcast you will notice a theme that in every society, less God requires more government. So I just get that axiom in your head and I want to explain it. Probably not making sense right now. In every society, less God always requires more government. So think about this. When you have a nation full of Jesus worshiping, spirit filled, Bible believing and Bible obeying people, guess what? You don't need a whole lot of police. When you've got a nation that are spirit filled people, they're reading verses like, hey man, if a guy won't provide for it, work hard and provide for his family, he's worse than an unbeliever. So get out there and have a Protestant work ethic. When you have a nation full of those people, guess what? You don't need a ton of government welfare. When you've got a nation that's full of spirit filled people that like, they actually want to conduct their lives and their businesses with integrity and scrupulousness, guess what? You don't need a ton of government regulation. So here's what's interesting, man. A lot of people, they do not connect these things. Whenever there is a rise in godlessness, it requires a rise in government. Government to stem the tide of rising evil that results from the godlessness. That is why globally, in societies in general, less God always requires more government. And as godliness decreases, socialism increases. I will just point this out. The same people, the exact same people who laugh at you guys for believing in an all powerful, all good God. They think, man, if we just made the government all powerful, it'll be all good. I just want to point that out. Okay, so subtract God. Government becomes God. Now let me just get into this. What I want Christians to do, we're going to rapid fire these. What I want Christians to do when they see this, because you're seeing it right now in New York City, you're seeing this. I'm going to get to this here in a second. You're seeing the effects of this in Chicago. You've seen the effects of this in California, places like San Francisco, definitely in places like Washington, Portland, all those places. As you're seeing these things, Christians need to learn to think in a way where they apply their Christian convictions into how they view policies and government, apply those things in the social and political realm. So a few things I want Christians to be able to do. Number one, you've got to be able to differentiate between a Christian vision and definition of what human and civil rights are. Are and what a secular progressive vision and definition of what human and civil rights are. Okay, do we got those other mom dining clips? So for instance, this is. I want to show you an example of this. So you, as a Christian, watch this. Once you see this, you can't unsee it. You'll see it everywhere and you'll start going, oh, that's that thing. That's that thing. But it's watch it's happening to you and you don't know it's happening to you. So watching both these clips, watch the things that Mamdani, as a progressive person, defines as rights, and then ask the question, are these things that a Christian would go, that's a human right. Okay, so we're gonna have two examples. Do this one first. New Yorkers have a right to quality health care, as do the nurses who provide that care. My job as mayor is to protect, protect both of those rights. To stand alongside the working people who stand with us every day and to build a city where everyone can live a life of dignity, not just those with the most. So what you noticed is he said two things. He said what? He said, health care, affordable health care is a right. And then he's specifically talking about the wages of the people providing the health care that's also a right. Notice that now book if you're like, ah, maybe. Okay, we'll just stop. Let's stop at the. Think we'll come back to that in a second. Now watch this. He's going to, he's not going to use the words, the word right, but he's going to use the word. What's he say? Entitled, which is rights language. Now watch in this clip, what does he refer to as an entitlement that comes from a human right. Okay, listen. Real close of New York's commitment to a new era where every one of our neighbors, even those who have made mistakes in their past, is entitled to dignity and safety and to a home that they can call their own. That's it. Okay? That's it. So did you notice? So he's saying entitled. So owning a house, having a house, that's a right. Okay? Now when, when you first hear that as a Christian, you might be like, well, maybe, I don't know. Maybe. Okay, well, here's the big idea, man. Historically, Christians have defined the word right, human or civil right, differently than progressive people have. All right? So for Christians, think about this. We have this in the Constitution that was written by largely Christian Christians. You have the right to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness. We'll talk about rights. Christians will talk about rights, like the right to free speech, the right to freedom of assembly, worship, that kind of thing. This is what Thomas Jefferson. Now here's what I want you to notice. Notice when Christians talk about rights, they're talking about freedom from something. So all those rights, life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, speech and worship, that's freedom from someone impeding me doing the thing that God has said I'm allowed to do. Okay? Now what you'll notice is progressives use the word rights and define the word rights very differently. So progressives, they'll talk about rights in terms of things like affordable housing, health care. They'll talk about abortion as. Notice this, they'll reframe it as reproductive rights. They'll talk about, hey, man, everybody has the right, right to an affordable education. So college, free college, quote, unquote, free college, by the way, that's a right. Childcare he talked about, that's a right. Now here's what I want you to notice. Those things are not freedom from someone else impeding me to do something. Those are rights, quote, unquote, freedom to have something. Now here's the big idea, man. All of those rights, the way that progressives define rights, housing, healthcare, reproductive rights, college, childcare, notice, all of those, quote, unquote, rights, they require something from someone else. So if it. Here's a big idea. If one person has a right to have or consume something for free, that means that somebody else has the obligation to provide it for free. That's your problem. So if. Watch this. If it obligates somebody else to do something, it's actually not a right for you do. It's an obligation for them. All right? So what you're going to notice is. And that what you're going to notice that progressives tend to do is they'll relabel things that Christians would call privileges. They'll relabel Them as rights in order to advance a socialistic vision. I don't want to get too bogged down here. What's really happening is this call. It's called choice architecture. We talk about what choice architecture is, is when somebody manipulates the options presented to you to force you to their desired conclusion. All right? So like, you know, you'll have people be like, hey, Carlos, are you pro choice or are you against women's rights? Okay, I feel a little boxed in here a little bit, you know, Paul, are you affirming or do you practice hate? You know, back in 2020, it was like, hey, do you support BLM or are you complicit in white supremacy? So are you seeing this now? Watch, this is a play that's getting run on you, and you don't know what's getting run on you. So the way the options are presented is intentionally manipulating you to a desired outcome. Now what they'll do, now what progressives do is they'll is language, is whoever controls the terms wins the debate. They'll relabel things that historically have been called privileges and call them rights in order to advance a socialistic economic vision. So that if you oppose what I'm trying to do, we've set it up to where you're actually opposing civil and human rights. So number one, you just got to get like, dude, there's a difference between a Christian vision of rights and a. A progressive vision of rights. All right, you, you guys got any thoughts or questions here? And then I'm brief thought.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Is that what's interesting in terms of the language is that the way a lot of the times progressive speak is that rights come from the government? Yes, we have created these rights. Whereas again, the Constitution is like, no, no, no. Like we've been endowed by who? Our creator with inalienable rights. So even it goes into the whole thing of saying, hey, when God diminishes, what has to become God in his place? The government. The government is. We tell you what rights you have and don't have. So I just think all these things interplay together. That's the only comment I had.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's exactly right. Now, you know, when this happens, we need to rapid fire this. When this happens, there's some very predictable results. Hey, play that. Play that next clip of the. The people. So what you can read to see is a clip of people who voted for mom. Donnie finding out that he's going to raise property taxes. He's proposing a property tax increase of 9.5%. So these are Mom. Donnie. Voters finding out. So check this out. Mayor with the greatest respects in every campaign speech and every debate where you engage, we opened our ears to listen. Now today, accept the words echoing from us. Now do your job as mayor and

[Carlos Arazo]

leave our taxes out.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Okay, all right, that's it. It's like, all right, so here's the deal. Reality's undefeated.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Yeah, someone has to pay for stuff.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So, dude, here's what happened. Anytime a social. Somebody's got to pay for.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

For stuff.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Ain't no such thing. There's no such thing as free health care, free child. There's no such thing because you have to obligate somebody to do it. So every time a socialistic vision is advanced, this is what happens. Every single time. Step one is tax the rich. Step two, the rich leave. By the way, that's what's happening. They're all moving to Florida. And by the way, Texas. By the way, if you're here, welcome. You're just not allowed to vote. So number two, the rich leave. Step three, all the people who are left behind, they celebrate the rich people leaving. Step four, oh, crap, the government still needs money. Step five, oh, now you're the richest people left, so we got to tax you. They raise taxes on you. Step six, now you got to pay a lot of taxes. Step seven, meltdown. Yeah, so the whole socialistic ideology is being surprised by the trade offs that are inevitable in any sense. System. That's all it is. Okay? Now here's the other thing Christians need to learn to, to. To get here is check this. Just go with me, man. Progressives think in terms of solutions. Christians and conservatives think in terms of trade offs. This is really, really important. Progressives think in terms of solutions. Conservatives think in terms of trade offs. Okay? So for instance, people notice this, what progressives do is they'll just see a problem. And a lot of times they see a legitimate problem. Problem, Legitimate problem. They'll see a problem and they just automatically think of what's a straight line solution to solve that problem. So for instance, they'll see, man, some people don't have enough money problem. So then they'll just go, well, this is really easy. We'll just take a whole bunch of money from the people who do have the money and we'll give it to the people that don't have the money and problem solved, duh. You know? But what happens so progressives, what happens is somebody said progressives think about taxes like middle school boys think about Axe body spray. If some was good, more will be Better, but that's what ends up happening. Okay, so they don't think progresses in terms of solutions, but they won't think about the reality of the second and third order consequences that will happen when you implement your proposed solution. For instance, you get throw up that next I want to throw up these pictures. So second and third order consequences. Oh, what, Wait, if we take a bunch of money from the people who generate the most wealth and most jobs, one, a whole bunch of them are going to leave our state. Then who are we going to. Oh, number two, we still got to pay for stuff. So you're seeing this right now in New York city. Mamdani proposes 9.5 property tax increase. Good. And next one, California right now is doing the same thing. This is. Watch this. What these are, are the second and third order consequences that will always happen when you advance a high tax, wealth redistributive, socialistic vision. California is having the largest wealth flight in California history. It's over a trillion dollars of net worth have left California as a, you know, as a new proposed tax increase. And then the big one, I'm a sports guy. This is crazy, man. I don't know if y' all saw this. Like the Chicago Bears are. It looks like they're moving towards leaving the city of Chicago to move to a more conservative, conservative Indiana. It's like shame on Chicago. That's Stephen A. Smith. So where progressives just think in terms of solutions, what conservatives tend to do is they think in terms of trade offs. Well, if we do that, then what will the second or third order consequences be? We're never going to have a perfect system. So what's the best system we can get? Given the trade offs that are inevitable now, you may be going, what's it got to do with the Bible? Okay, well, the biblical category for this is just wisdom. Yes, Wisdom is the ability to maneuver the complexity of the world. Okay, so this biblical category of wisdom, any thoughts or comments here?

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

No, go ahead.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I'm good. All right, then we, we'll shut her down here.

[Carlos Arazo]

It's good wisdom now.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Thank you all. Thank you. Thank you, Carlos. All right, now the third one is. Here's the third axiom Christians need to get in their head is with government, you always are going to get more of what you incentivize and less of what you penalize. So like another way to say this is show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome. Okay, so man, here's a quick theology of this. I want to do this very briefly so what Christians have historically done is Christians have noticed in the Bible God created three institutions, the family, the church and the state. And in the Bible, what you're going to notice is every one of the institutions has primary responsibilities that God delegates to that institution. And it's that God given institution that's supposed to do that thing, not the other institutions. It's like families. And these are just generalized. This is like Kyperians fear sovereignty. For theologians, you know, the family is responsible for the raising of children, the discipleship of children, you know, feeding kids, that kind of thing. And individuals are called to love the poor, serve the poor, help the poor. So you got the family, you got the church. Church is historically responsible for things like word and sacrifice, sacrament. It's the church's job in society to be quote, a pillar and buttress of the church, the truth to function as an immune system for society. The church is also tasked with caring for the poor and helping people who are hurting. And then the government is a third institution. Romans 13, book of First Peter. The government's role is justice. It's to reward the good and penalize what is evil. That's Romans 13 Peter. Now what you're going to notice is Christians acknowledge all three institutions and they want every institution, individual, family, church, state, to do their job. What you're going to notice in general is that secular progressive people, they want the government to do the role of the individual, the family and the church. So hey, we'll protect you, we'll provide for you, we'll decide what's right and wrong in society. We'll do that. You know, we'll take care of the prayer poor. So secular progressive people want the government to do the role of the individual, family and church. And what you're going to honestly, dude, what you'll notice is that secular progressives want nobody to do the role of the government. So they don't want anybody meeting out man honestly, like biblical justice. So you'll just kind of notice this in general. It's very, very interesting. So like that's where you get like hashtag defund the police. Hey, let's replace, you know, the police with therapists.

[Carlos Arazo]

Yeah, kind of spirit of lawlessness, anti death penalty.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's a good example.

[Carlos Arazo]

Oh, nobody should be, nobody should be doing that. Who's that? Evil.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Sure, sure, that's right. Okay.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

I love to connect. Can I connect the two in the three real fast? Real fast. I love even like you talk about. This is a wisdom issue. Wisdom is simply the idea of how has God Designed the world in reality to work.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

And then how do we live in line with that? So even like in the Old Testament proverbs, it also often connects wisdom with creation of the world. That's the idea there. But then if you think about it, and I want to be careful not to apply these verse to this, but I think there's some connections of how God has designed reality to work, including our relationship with Him. Think about the idea of you get more of what you incentivize. What did God do in the Old Testament after He laid down all of his laws? He says, I put before you what life and death. Choose life, that what reward that you may live. And then even thinking about Hebrews where it talks about if you want to please God, two things are required. You must believe that he exists. And then people read the second and that he is what a rewarder of those who seek Him. So actually the way that God is compelling people to obey and to be wise and to seek him is not saying, because I'll zap you or else. Now there are, there are consequences. But actually his primary thing he does is say, I want to reward you and give you life. So I'm saying, I highlighted, highlighted those two things because it's a part of how God has designed the world and reality to work.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So dude, whenever. So here's the big idea, man, is when everybody does their job, good stuff happen. When churches care for the poor, and when individual Christians care for the poor, poverty decreases and we actually help people. But when the government tries to do the role of the church, the family and the individual, it's the exact opposite. Because with governments, you get more of what you incentivize and less of what you penalize. So I'll give you an example of this. So for instance, when the government steps out of Justice Lane and into the. We're the ones that are primarily going to care for the, the poor. Well, here's the big idea. You're not solving poverty, you're incentivizing it. And, and the outcomes speak for themselves. So for instance, in the civil rights era, when you had the explosion of the welfare state and the government was like, dude, we're going to pour billions more dollars into quote, unquote, solving poverty. Essentially what they did is they went, okay, we're going to create a policy where if you make below a certain amount and you're not married, then we're going to give you a bunch of, we're going to give you government assistance. Well, guess what? You got, you got more poverty and you got far less people getting married. Why? Because you set up policies that incentivized not working and staying unmarried. I'll give you another example of this. Think about this. In, in states and cities that allocate billions of dollars towards quote, unquote, helping homelessness. In states and cities like that, you get states and cities that are overrun with homelessness. You do not solve homelessness. So I'll give you an example of this. This is. Show that thing from the Hoover Institute. Yeah. So like for instance, in the last X number of years, California has thrown $37 billion at quote, unquote, solving homelessness. And guess what? They got more homelessness. Yeah, because again, what you're doing, you're not solving it, you're incentivizing it.

[Carlos Arazo]

Something similar, probably you could be set up about the mental health crisis that in the last, you know, whatever, 15, 20 years, more money has been poured into mental health resources. And now you go to the doctor and you ask, how are you feeling? And then the more money has been put into that, the more increase in, you know, depression, anxiety, et cetera, et cetera. That's the government trying to do the role of the home or the church.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

In this case, you're actually creating a commercial for it.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

And we've talked about this before, but to connect it to a book called When Helping Hurts, these are classic examples of that. So our, our heart in this is not to help. It's actually to your point of, like, when conservatives, what are trade offs? We're trying to say, actually we're trying to do the most help possible, but you're trying to do things in a way that looks like it's helping, but it's actually hurting. It's causing more damage.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right. What you're doing is, hey, man, there's groups of people in society that are drowning and you're throwing them an anvil. You're throwing them a feel good anvil is what you're doing. Okay, so let me just last thing again. What Christians have got to get good at is connecting our theology to our sociology and our political ideology. We've got to get better at that. So essentially, what you've got right here is this really boils down to a difference in an understanding. It's a biblical anthropology. It boils down to an understanding of human nature. Okay, so it's Christian theology versus critical theory. In Christian theology, what we understand is that man is inherently sinful. We have a sin nature. So we are by default Mode, selfish, selfish. We do not by default do the right, responsible and altruistic thing. So Christian theology understands that because of that we have to create incentive structures in society that essentially hijack selfish motives to get people to do the right thing with incentive structures. By contrast Marxist progressive critical theory, it does not think that mankind is inherently sinful. It thinks that mankind is actually inherently good. And that if man, honestly, if left to himself, man, if you just treat people nice enough and give them enough therapy, well then everybody's going to do the right thing and work really hard and you know, they're just going to do it on their own. So really what all this boils down to is competing visions of human nature. That's it.

[Carlos Arazo]

That's why ideas matter. And your theology, everybody's a theologian.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[Carlos Arazo]

And your theology matters. That's right.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

It man. So here's what I'm saying. We're done. But what I'm saying is, let me just summarize. If you're a Christian and you're watching the news cycle, first of all, watch for moments when something that requires something from someone else is relabeled as a right. Watch for when privileges are relabeled as rights. Number two, watch, watch out for the axiom with governments you get more of what you incentivize and less of what you penalize. And number three, do not be somebody that in a simple minded way just thinks in terms of solutions. We're Christians that understand the complexity of the world and we think in terms of trade offs. Good.

[Carlos Arazo]

Pastor Josh, would you pray for us?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I will, Father. First of all, what a privilege it is to be sons of the living God and to walk right into your presence, presence and approach your throne with boldness. So Father, I, I pray for everybody that's listening that has had an unanswered prayer. I pray that you might lead them in a path of righteousness for your namesake that God, you might show them what's going on. That they would press their head real tight up against the chest. Their heavenly Father and love and serve you. So bless them in that Lord. Father, we do pray for our nation. Nation. And we ask that your word says that righteousness exalts a nation. And so we pray for tons of people to get saved for mass revival and then for us to walk out as salt and light in this dark world and to shine very brightly for the glory of your son. So I pray blessing on these people. I pray blessing on all every church represented. Pray blessing on our society. I pray it for the glory of Jesus Christ. Christ. Amen.

[Pastor Paul Cunningham]

Amen.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Amen.

[Carlos Arazo]

Let's read, brother.