The DANGEROUS Ideology Behind the Trump Assassination Attempt (ft. David Nasser) | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "The DANGEROUS Ideology Behind the Trump Assassination Attempt"

Live Free with Josh Howerton (Lakepointe Church), April 27, 2026
Featuring: Josh Howerton (host, Lead Pastor), Carlos Arazo, Paul Cunningham, David Nasser (guest)

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the recent assassination attempt on President Trump, examining the ideological and spiritual underpinnings driving such acts. Host Josh Howerton, joined by regulars Carlos and Paul and guest preacher David Nasser, discuss how underlying worldviews—particularly secular progressivism—and spiritual realities contribute to political violence in America. The episode moves from exploring biblical responses to society’s turmoil, to practical evangelism strategies, and ultimately urges Christians to see the spiritual root beneath society’s woes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Recent Events: The Trump Assassination Attempt (00:00–06:00, 70:45–90:00)

• Context: The episode was recorded within 24 hours after a 4th assassination attempt on President Trump during the White House Correspondents Dinner.
• Presenting Issue vs. Root Cause:
  • Josh: “Politics cannot fix what politics did not break...” (00:00)
  • The panel distinguishes between the symptoms (presenting issue) and the spiritual/cultural disease (root cause) fueling societal violence.
  • Recurring theme: “Outrage should turn into outreach.”

2. From Outrage to Outreach: Christian Response (00:11, 90:13–92:00)

• Josh & David: Challenge listeners to see tragedy and violence as calls for the Church to step in with gospel witness before people fall into darkness.
  • David: “Could there have been someone in the life of these individuals who end up being the harmers… when somebody could have been their church community?” (00:11)
  • Christians are called to uncompromising compassion and seeing even the ‘villains’ as people made in God’s image who needed someone to step into their pain.

3. Worldview Analysis: Secular Progressivism vs. Christian Ethics (70:47–84:19)

• Richard Weaver’s ‘Ideas Have Consequences’:
  • Progressive ideology’s “oppressed-oppressor” lens tends toward justifying violence as moral obligation.
  • Josh highlights trend data showing acceptance of violence is significantly higher among far left progressives, citing studies and quotations from mainstream influencers (e.g., Hassan Piker, Destiny).
• Critical Theory vs. Christian Worldview:
  • Critical theory categorizes opponents as evil oppressors; Christianity sees disagreement as wrongness, not a reason for annihilation.
  • Josh: “If you have a worldview built on Christian theology, there are moral guardrails… 'You shall not murder.' In secular progressivism, with no moral lawgiver, those guardrails disappear.” (83:20+)
  • Political violence is the logical outworking of certain secular progressivist premises, not an aberration.

4. Jesus’ Identity: Claims to Deity & Evangelism (23:39–40:23)

• Paul (Bible breakdown):
  • “Jesus said things only God could say, did things only God could do, and knew things only God could know.” (25:07, 39:26)
• Memorable quotes:
  • Josh: “If Carlos punches Paul and Paul’s mad about it, and I say to Carlos, ‘I forgive you’—that doesn’t make sense. Only the offended party can offer forgiveness… When Jesus forgives sins, he’s claiming all sin is against him—He’s Yahweh.” (30:16)
• David personalizes: “If you’re on a treadmill right now … did Jesus do things for you that only God could do?... Can we personalize that?” (39:52)

5. Effective Evangelism: Practical Coaching for Christians (41:32–70:00)

• Nasser’s ‘Blood of the Lamb, Word of Our Testimony’ strategy:
  • Share your story, then share the Gospel clearly (42:15+).
  • “You exist, you are a sinner; God exists, He’s holy; sin separates you. But God made one way—through Jesus.”
• Josh’s “3 Questions Deep” Approach:
  • “Go three questions deep. Everybody stays surface-level… When someone gets to emotion, God puts emotion in you to put you in motion.” (62:06)
  • After genuine connection, offer to pray and plant a spiritual ‘time bomb’ of expectation.
• Paul & Carlos:
  • Lead with questions. “People are not products. Pray to know what God is already doing—‘prevenient grace’.” (66:32)
  • “Instead of trying to be interesting, be interested.” (64:57)
• Importance of Hospitality & Relationship-building:
  • Nasser’s story of engaging Jordan Peterson shows planting gospel seeds through intentional friendship and radical hospitality (49:13–56:41).
  • Relationships open doors for spiritual conversations, sometimes rapidly when crisis hits.
• Calling to Collaboration:
  • Panelists encourage using conversational tools: curiosity, testimony, prayer, patience, and personalized engagement.

6. Sanctity of Life as a Christian Distinctive (87:53–90:43)

• David Nasser: Political violence reflects a compromised view of “imago Dei” (image of God) and parallels the abortion debate.
  • David: “The root is they don’t see another person as made in the image of God… We can get really outragey—but if you look through the lens of scripture, outrage should turn into outreach.” (89:24, 90:13)
• Christians are called to see not only victims but also perpetrators as people worth rescuing.

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Notable and Memorable Quotes

• Josh Howerton (00:00): “Politics cannot fix what politics did not break.”
• David Nasser (00:11): “Outrage at what happened should turn into outreach. Could someone have been the church community for the person who caused harm?”
• Paul Cunningham on Jesus’ Deity (25:07): “Jesus said things only God could say. He did things only God could do. And he knew things only God could know.”
• David Nasser (39:52): “Did Jesus do things for you that only God could do? Forget everybody else. This ain’t 2,000 years ago. This is now.”
• Josh Howerton (62:06): “Go three questions deep… God puts emotion in you to put you in motion.”
• David Nasser (90:13): “It’s not just the sanctity of the victim’s life, but also the person who becomes the harm-er. Could we have intervened upstream?”
• Josh Howerton (83:20): "If you have a worldview built on Christian theology, there are moral guardrails... In secular progressivism, with no moral lawgiver, those guardrails disappear."
• Panel summary (92:20): “You can have outrage at what happened last night, but eventually it’s got to turn into outreach…”

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Time | Topic | |------|------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 | Opening remarks on cultural/political chaos, Trump attempt | | 05:29 | Sharing faith like Paul in Athens, courage of conviction | | 06:41 | On hospitality, making people feel valued in community | | 14:05 | Nasser on 'Bread of Life', gospel identity | | 23:39 | Bible deep-dive: Jesus’ “I am” statements, claims to deity | | 25:07 | Paul’s “3 marks of divinity” breakdown | | 42:15 | Practical evangelism coaching from David Nasser | | 49:13 | Nasser shares intentional evangelism with Jordan Peterson | | 62:06 | Josh’s ‘3 questions deep’ approach/prayer on airplanes | | 66:32 | Paul and Carlos: asking questions, trusting prevenient grace | | 70:45 | Breaking down the ideology and worldview issues behind violence | | 76:16 | Mainstream progressive commentators on “social murder” | | 84:19 | Sermon on the Mount applied: problems are heart-level | | 87:53 | Sanctity of life, the abortion analogy, and humility | | 90:13 | Encourage outreach into the lives of potential perpetrators | | 92:20 | Closing prayer and benediction |

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Final Takeaways

• Culture war is spiritual war: The increase in political violence is not an accident of history but is downstream from secular ideologies lacking Christian moral guardrails.
• Christian outreach is essential: Believers are called to move from outrage to practical engagement with both gospel proclamation and radical love for both the ‘harmed’ and the ‘harmers’.
• Faithful evangelism is relational: Consistent, practical steps—asking good questions, prayer, personal hospitality, and authentic testimony—matter far more than formulaic arguments.
• The only hope is a new heart: Ultimately, no political solution can fix what is broken in the human soul. Only Jesus can bring the transformation people and societies need.

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Summary prepared for listeners seeking the episode’s substance, Biblical application, and practical tools to engage culture as followers of Jesus.

Transcript

[A]

There was the fourth legitimate assassination attempt on President Trump's life. We have a lot of politically aware Christians who listen to Live Free, and I want to keep saying the same thing. Politics cannot fix what politics did not break.

[B]

You can have outrage at what happened last night, but eventually it's got to turn into outreach. Could there have been someone in the life of these individuals who end up being the harmers when somebody could have been their church community?

[C]

Well, hey, Lit Free Nation. Before we jump into the episode, this podcast is recorded right here at Lake Pointe Church in Dallas, Texas. Texas. But the Live Free Nation is spread all over the country and all around the world. So if you've been watching and thinking, man, I wish I could be part of something like this. We want to invite you to take a simple next step, and that is join us for Church Online. Every weekend, we stream our services live on YouTube, Facebook, and our church online platform. And it's more than just watching a service. There are live hosts in the chat, prayer teams ready to stand with you, and people all around the world worshiping together in real time. And so whether you're exploring the faith, coming back to church, or just looking for a place to start, church Online is a great way to jump in and experience what God is doing here at Lake Point. We would love to see you in the chat this weekend and now enjoy the podcast. Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the Live Free podcast. My name is Carlos Arazo, and I'm here with Pastor Josh Howerton and Paul Cunningham. And today we have a special guest, Bishop David Nassar. Come on.

[D]

Come on back with us.

[B]

I've never been called Bishop before. Come on.

[A]

He's back, baby. Every last time he's on, the episode exploded.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And so we gotta have him back.

[C]

He's our Iran expert.

[B]

Wow. I'm the only one you know. Hey.

[D]

Hey, Expert.

[A]

It's Iran.

[C]

Oh, it's Iran, is it? Is it?

[B]

Right? It could be whatever you want it to be, Carlos. Hey, David, you know what would you like for me to be?

[C]

English is my first language. That's okay.

[B]

Farsan Mohammedan.

[D]

International relations going on right now. This is awesome.

[B]

Now you're Cuban.

[C]

No.

[B]

We're even now. I'm just saying. No, hold on, hold on, hold on. You're Canadian, right? No, I just thought.

[C]

He's making it even harder.

[B]

I just thought since we're just throwing out parts of the world and everyone belongs from Canada.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah, I just thought we're going that way.

[C]

You. He. He knows what he's doing. He knows exactly what he's doing. That's great. That's great. David, welcome back.

[B]

Thank you, buddy.

[C]

Hey. Today we're going to have a great episode. We're going to be talking about different things. Also, Pastor Josh, welcome back from Greece.

[A]

It's good to be a little jet lagged.

[C]

How you doing?

[A]

It's going to be back. Hey, actually let me brag on the pod real quick. In stinking Greece. I'm not joking. I've never felt the lake pointers who were with me. We had like 45, 50 lake pointers who. We were doing a journey of Paul trip and visiting sites from the book of Acts, Acts 16, 17, 18, primarily. And you know, I think their estimation of our church skyrocketed in Greece. I'm not joking. I would conservatively estimate 20 people stopped us and we're like Lakebone Church. We watch.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So, dude, this is no joke. We're on the top of the Acropolis and some of our teams up there and they see there's a Greek street preacher outside of the Acropolis, by the way, he had a great little message. He did. What did he do? He did one savior, two nails, three days. It was like a legitimately good gospel centered street preacher. It was awesome. Like, love of God was awesome. And he sees the little Lake Point lanyard on some of our people. And his accent, he's like, Lake Point Church, Dallas. I don't know how to do a Greek accent.

[C]

That's okay.

[A]

Lake Point Church, Dallas, Texas.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

They said, yeah. He said, I watch your podcast. That's amazing.

[C]

It was amazing.

[B]

Wow.

[D]

That's crazy.

[A]

It was insane, man.

[C]

Mars Hill.

[A]

Yep, right there. So, okay. Actually, we'll probably do this more when I get back into acts and when we're teaching. So I didn't know this because I had never been to. You've been to Mars Hill? Yeah, I'd never been to Mars Hill. I didn't know Mars Hill. So for listeners, Acts 17, Paul, it does a deal at the beginning of Acts 17 where he's looking around Athens and he goes, his spirit was provoked within him because the city was full of idols. So then right after that, he gets accused of quote, unquote, promoting foreign gods. By the way, here's a little fun fact about. We didn't plan to do this. Here's a little fun fact about that. The reason that would have sent a chill down his spine is because just like a century or two earlier, the major event in Athens was Socrates was forced to drink the hemlock Capital punishment. Why? Because he was accused of promoting foreign gods. So I didn't know. In Acts 17, the language there is the exact same language that was used to convict Socrates and get him killed. So then I have a point to this. So then Paul goes up on Marseille and he does the whole deal of, hey, men of Athens, you got all these idols here. And all this stuff. I didn't know until this trip. And this is. I'm the dummy. I didn't know the Areopagus. Mars Hill is literally at the foot of the Acropolis. So, Paul, have you

[B]

been.

[C]

He has not been.

[D]

No, I have not.

[A]

This is a running McBreed joke.

[C]

But he will one day.

[A]

He will one day.

[C]

He will one day.

[A]

I didn't know that. Mars Hill is literally right at the foot of the Acropolis. So when he's telling them, hey, the city's full of idols, literally, he's looking right at the Parthenon. There's 22 either statues or temples to the demonic pagan Greek gods there. And that's why he says that. So there's a bunch of stuff like that on that trip. It's like, bro, I didn't. It all just starts to click.

[D]

And then so literally when he says line like, God does not live in temples made by human pants. It's like visuals right here.

[A]

So then you start to think, so even Today, I mean, 2,000 years later, the whole city of Athens revolves around the Parthenon. That's amazing. Like, the whole city is about the Parthenon. So you go back 2,000 years, and Paul's telling these dudes the areopagus was like the Supreme Court of Athens. He's telling them, hey, God's not in those temples made by human hands. Like, you gotta imagine the courage and conviction that that would have taken, Paul. I mean, stunning, man.

[C]

Well, we're gonna talk about that. How to share our faith in just a second. You're also gonna share a little bit more about your trip. Greece. We're gonna be addressing the pastoral response to President Trump's assassination attempt at the White House Correspondent Dinner, literally, as of the recording of this episode just happened last night, we're gonna talk about some different ways to share the gospel. We have David Nasser here, the expert from Iran. Man, I'm learning a good thing every single day. You see how quickly I fix it.

[B]

You did it.

[C]

Thank you. His Cuban accent and my Cuban accent, sure. Actually, usually it's Mexican, but that's okay. We're gonna.

[B]

People will say you're from Costa Rica.

[A]

No, no, I'm sorry.

[C]

Hey, if you're part of the Live Free nation, if you've never been here, we love to meet you in person. Come hang out. If you ever wanna come and you Wanna ask Chad GPLC if your tattoo in Hebrew actually says what you think it says, you can.

[D]

I've received at least 20 messages on social media for people to proofread their Greek and Hebrew tattoos.

[A]

No kidding.

[C]

Come find us last week.

[D]

Yep.

[C]

First time guest stands. We got a gift for you.

[A]

Also I got this tramp stamp. Will you.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[D]

That I mentioned on the podcast. That's joke.

[C]

That's a joke.

[A]

That's a joke.

[D]

Neither of them have that.

[C]

Every single week we have a giveaway for lip free merch. You can see it right here. You can go ahead and if you're on YouTube or Spotify. Comment hat. Is that. Is that fun? You like hat?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay. Comment hat. And we'd love to select we want

[A]

to give away hats.

[C]

Multiple winners. To find our daily Bible reading plan plus the weekly sermon, plus an early release of the live free podcast. Download the Lake Point Church app. Text the word app to 20411 or go to Apple or Google Play store. David Nasser.

[A]

Wait, wait.

[C]

Oh, you're right.

[A]

Can I do one more night from Greece? Yeah, you've been right.

[B]

I have been, yeah.

[A]

Did you go to Philippi?

[B]

We did, yeah.

[A]

All right, so this. Of everything we saw, this was the thing that was like, oh my gosh, my heart sang. All right, so here's the one and I'll. I'll do more. We're start preaching the book of Acts again in a couple weeks. Trinity, will you pull up that one picture that looks like it's just from rural Texas? Okay, so this. So we're seriously creep down the road over here. There's nothing Grecian about this picture. Really? Okay, so of everything we saw at every spot, I'll stop and do a devotional. And that kind of. So this is. I'd never seen this before. So this is right outside the ruins of ancient Philippi. This is in. If you go to Acts 16. I'm going to read it. This is the likely baptism site of Lydia, who was the seller of purple cloth. She was like total baller. Wealthy, probably the Roman fashion industry. Most Bible scholars assume because of two verses in the book of Philippians that she leveraged her wealth as a gospel patron to fund Paul's ministry. There's two verses in Philippians that make it clear they were a financial backer of his Ministry in a way that other churches weren't. And a lot of people think that was. That was Lydia.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

So in Acts 16, I'm going to read real quick. And this has a good payoff, just stick with me kind of thing. That's like, you don't see it if you just read real fast. So Acts 16, it says, and on the Sabbath day, we went outside of the gate, outside the gate to the riverside. So notice the details. And we sat down and spoke to a woman named Lydia. Now the reason they're like, hey, man, that's. That's legit. Where Lydia got baptized is one, it's outside, it's at ancient Philippi. Number two, it's. It's outside one of the city gates like the verse said. And number three, there's only one river there. So you connect the dots and it's like, bro, that's. I mean, I just read that verse. You just stepped into the book of Acts when you were standing there as Lydia. Okay. But here's what kind of made my eyes sweat when we're standing there. So I start studying these passages. You probably preach this a million times. I start studying these passages before we go because, you know, I don't want these to be trips. I want them to disciple people. So there's this prayer, they're called the burk. I want to pronounce it correctly. Burqat Hashokar. There were prayers that Jewish men in the first century would frequently pray. And I'll just, I'll read it. What they would. They would pray is frequently Jewish men, especially Pharisees like Paul, they would pray three things. It was a series of, of professions of thanks. And they would pray. Oh, man, it's gonna make my eyes sweat just saying it. Paul very likely grew up and every day he would pray. God, I want to thank you that I'm not three things. I'm not a woman, I'm not a slave, and I'm not a gentile. All right, so he grows up praying these things. Then Paul gets saved earlier in the book of Acts and he becomes a spirit filled church planter. And it's a little spirit filled church planter, former Jewish dude. He walks into Philippi. And if you read Acts 16, 17, 18, there's three people that God immediately saves supernaturally under Paul's ministry. He saves. Hang on. He saves Lydia, he saves. God saves this. It's a little. A slave girl that was filled with a demonic spirit of divination. And then number three, the Philippian jailer. So Let me study this. Amazing. Paul grows up his whole life praying God, thank you. I'm not a woman, I'm not a slave, and I'm not a Gentile. Then he wanders into Philippi and God goes, you know what, Paul? I'm gonna use you to save three people right off the bat. A woman, a slave, and a Gentile. So this thing, man, listen, man, is a movement for all people. Anybody can get in on this thing. So, dude, I'm standing there and I'm like, I'm like a 8 year old girl. I mean, I just think that got so good.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Awesome. Well, I'm sure there's more that you want to share with us. We'll say that. But David, thank you so much for your sermon, man. Thank you for being here with us this weekend.

[B]

It's such an honor to be here. What a. What an amazing group of people that have gathered together and called this their home church just to be out in the lobby and to meet your people. So many of them on mission. So many of them burdened for their one more. So many of them have come to Christ through the faithfulness of this church body by someone else. I met a young lady who was a former Muslim who had given her life to Christ last night. And, man, she said, my mom and my dad are not Christians. But then standing right beside her was this sweet elderly couple. And she points to them, they've been your church. She goes, this is my spiritual mom and dad. And we were just hugging and I thought, oh, when I think about Lake Pointe, I always think about like my friend Josh Howerton. But really now when I think about Lake Pointe, I'm also going to think about that sweet couple who just steps into the life of this young convert and are like, we got you. God's gonna give you a ton of fathers and mothers, you know, and so it's just been a joy. It's been life giving to be here, man. Thanks for trusting me in the pulpit.

[A]

Amen.

[B]

And be able to open God's word.

[A]

Thank you for doing it. That. That's one of the best messages that's been preached while I've been here. That was. That was insane. Yeah, that was insane. What's funny, it was full circle for me because, you know, I tell a story. The first time I ever heard you preach, I was sophomore in college. And you did one verse, you went word by word through John 3, 16.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then this one, you went word by word. It's John 6.

[B]

John 6:35.

[A]

6:35. And just, just word by word sermon, it was. That was fire. Thank you.

[B]

Yeah, man.

[A]

Praise hands. Praise hands. Fire.

[B]

Fire.

[A]

Fire.

[C]

So, David, as we do here in the live free podcast, we tend to ask whoever preaches that weekend, we will be like, hey, what didn't make it to the sermon? So let me ask you, what additional things. I'm sure you got more to share from your sermon.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I mean, obviously for someone who's. Who's yet to hear it, and hopefully you'll have time to make it a part of your schedule this week to go listen to the sermon. It's about that moment where says the undisputable truth about himself. He says, I am the bread of life. If you come to me, you're not going to be hungry, you're not going to be thirsty. I'm going to shift everything about your identity. It's not that you're not going to have longings, you're just not going to be identified by them anymore. I'm going to be your everything. And then everything else is going to find this proper place if you make me your greatest obsession. And so I did. John 6:35 kind of broke that down a little bit. And it's more than just, I'm the one true religion. It's more like, I'm everything. I want to be on the. I want to be on the throne of your life and not on the top shelf of your life. I want your wife to take a distant second, your kids to take a distance second. Your job, your ambitions. If everything else, if I'm your one, ride and die, Ride or die. If I'm everything, then everything else will make sense. And so then I talked about how that happens about a day after Jesus had actually physically given people physical bread, by the way.

[A]

I did not know that. I felt so dumb. It was one of those things. I was like, I had never connected those dots. Didn't you say 21 hours?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you know why they say that?

[B]

Well, they believe Jesus feeds the masses. And in between that, by the way, in between that is. Then he goes on. He just goes in the boat by himself to a solitude. He goes to be by himself and pray. The disciples. I'm sorry. In between the feeding of the masses and the John 6:35 is the Peter walking on water moment and all that. So pretty traumatic night where the guys just kind of had all that happen with the feeding. Then Peter walks on water and all of that. Wake up the next day, they're on the other side of the sea. Of Galilee. And I know you've been to Israel. Have you been to Israel? I'm sorry. Anyway, so. So. So if you go to the will. Yeah, he will. Is that the joke?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The guy who knows the most about it has actually never been.

[C]

He knows more than the three of us combined.

[A]

Right.

[C]

You know, that's.

[B]

He knows the most, but he's.

[D]

Oh, come on. I was well placed.

[B]

So if you go you. The next day they wake up, and the same people that he fed the day before. And you know how you actually are hungrier when you eat a big fat meal, like your stomach's kind of stretched. They wake up the next day and they're physically hungry again. And that's when they come around the bend. And so they believe by the time they'd had a late afternoon meal to the next morning when they wake up and they find him around lunchtime, it's about 21 hours, so no one knows for sure, but it's the next day. So they come to him and they're looking again for him to meet another moment like, hey, we're hungry again. Physically feed us again. And that's when Jesus says, man, you must eat of my flesh, drink of my blood. I mean, that's when Jesus just lays the gauntlet down and he says, look, this physical hunger that you have is nothing but an earthly illustration that as the Creator I made you to make you wake up to the reality of your actual greatest hunger, your eternal hunger, which is this longing for me and all the banquets of the world are going to leave you wanting. It's either going to be false bread or it's going to be temporary bread. And it's going to always leave you unsatisfied. And so only I'm going to be able to really satisfy you. But the heart of this message was in investigating Jesus was the strategy by which Jesus over and over again went after how he won the one more by figuring out a way how he won more w o n the one mores o n e's and how he did it often was Jesus would find a momentary need and he'd step into that momentary need and talk about the humility and the tenacity. And the focus of like, I'm not going to pander to the need. I'm going to position myself to serve. And so Jesus would meet that momentary need so that he would earn the right to speak eternal truth into the life of people. And so that was the heart of the message. And I think the one thing I would say that didn't make it in. The message is. It's never lost on me, honestly, being at your church, bro. It's not lost on me being at one of my very favorite preachers. Because you really are. I'm not just saying that to you, just because we're in the same room and sitting on the same side of the table like you are at this moment, one of God's anointed voices that he's risen up and it's all God. But you've been. You've been the crooked stick that he's hitting some pretty good licks with right now. But it's not lost on me, sitting right beside one of my favorite preachers that the greatest preacher of all time, who is not Josh Howerton. It's not Matt Chandler. It's not Francis Chan, it's not Tim Keller. It's not John Piper, the greatest preacher of all time, Jesus. Jesus. I mean, listen, sometimes people like you because they like your content. Jesus had the best content because he made all the creator of all content. Like in the beginning, before there was a beginning, there was a beginner who began beginning before there was creation, there was the uncreated one who created all creation. So like Jesus says, before, in the beginning was already was the Word. That's Jesus. The Word made flesh. So the content, creator of all creation. To talk about someone who has good content, the one who owns all content, like, we're fishing off AI and off our, you know, our software. Like, tell me something about a fish in the ocean that I can use. Jesus made it.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

So the guy who had all content, who had perfect timing, you're coming off jet lag. I'm older than you. I came from Tokyo last week. I'm still getting off jet lag. Like Jesus 247 has perfect timing. Jesus has 24 7. All contact. Like, sometimes you'll speak and somebody will say, it felt like you. You knew exactly what to say. In my life, Josh, you know, they'll be sitting on the fourth row and they'll think, did somebody hand you a sticky note? Like, about, like, all my secret. And you don't know. But Jesus knew. On a Sunday morning, Jesus knew every Sunday that they've been through, Jesus knows every Sunday Carlos is ever going, you don't know. Five Sundays from now, Jesus does. So the one who holds all content, all knowledge, all wisdom, it's fair to say Jesus, there'll never be anyone near Jesus as a communicator.

[A]

That's right. That's right.

[B]

Greatest Storyteller parable. You know what I mean? Like, are you kidding me right now? The greatest preacher of all time finds 15,000 people on a mountainside, and he doesn't go, somebody with skinny jeans sing three Maverick City songs and get me a mic. He doesn't polish a sermon off to him. The greatest preacher of all time finds 15,000 people. And their most immediate need. Not they're eternal. Their most immediate need is they're hungry. And he goes, let's feed them.

[A]

Amen. Amen.

[B]

I'm just telling you, man. I think sometimes preachers, we try to solve everything with a gathering.

[A]

Yeah, that's right. You know, that's right.

[B]

And we try to mobilize everybody with like, give me a mic and let me. You know. And God's going, like, just note that. Like, Jesus knew how to communicate, and he decided first to show compassion.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And they're hungry. Let's give them a meal. Let's put our best. Let's be hospitable. And then the next day, he didn't skirt the issue. So I think some churches are really good at meeting needs, but they never share the gospel. Some churches are really good at sharing the gospel, but they never meet needs. And Jesus comes in the middle and he's like, why do those things have to contradict one another?

[A]

That's right.

[B]

It's actually the way I call it, the tension. Not even the tension. The reality of the great commission Time, you know, go tell. And the great commandment. Love.

[A]

Well, that's right. Yeah.

[B]

So how do you do both at the same time? And Jesus models it right there.

[A]

Dude, we're gonna get to that in a second. I want to talk because you gave some stuff about. I don't care who you are, man. If you love Jesus, then. Then your heart starts burning for somebody else you love. Know Jesus.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So. And you. That's what you did in that message. You did that thing at the end of the message where it's like, hey, raise your.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. Or Stan, you know, and there's just. That just hits different. It starts to hit different when you start following Jesus. I want to get to that in a second and just get real practical. Everybody's got somebody as close to you from. But far from God. Okay, how do we. As disciples, how do we help? How do we move the needle? I want to get back to that in a second. You did something at the beginning of that message where you were. You just walk word by word through that. That verse where it was like, you did the I am. And then you did the I am the. Which was. As a preacher, I was gone. That was brilliant. That's right. It's like, as a preacher, I was like, that's so good.

[B]

Can I just interrupt you and just say, is it sirloin or wagyu? And here's what I mean by that. And I'm not saying some verses are sirloin. I'm just saying, like, I don't know about you guys, but I roll different. Like, I don't get a lot of wagyu. I get a ton of sirloin. And so when. When. When I'm at dinner, somebody says wagyu. I don't take big gulps. I don't take big. Like, they're giving me 4 ounces.

[A]

That's great, dude.

[B]

They're slicing and calling it carpaccio, which is like. I think carpaccio is Italian for, like, you don't get a lot. Cause you can't afford a lot. So, like, if it's wagyu, you savor it. And I just feel like verses sometimes get gobbled up, but we need to slow down and go look layered inside. So, like, before, we just read really quick. There's plenty in the eye. And then I feel like I'm fast forwarding through. I don't know how you feel, but sometimes, like, you'll do 10 weeks in. In Luke, and people are like, why are we going to be in Luke for them? Like, because I'm rushing through.

[A]

I was going to say 10 weeks. If you really wanted to do Luke, right, it would take two years. I mapped it a couple years ago. It take two years.

[B]

Totally, man. Frank Lloyd Wright, he. He. He did Galatians in five years.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And felt like he was rushing.

[A]

There's. This is a whole. Like, we could do a whole podcast, just like a preacher nerd podcast. But there's paragraph preachers and there's sentence preachers. Like, if you go read a Charles Spurgeon sermon, every Charles Spurgeon sermon is literally either one sentence or one phrase in one sentence. And he does what you did. And then there's paragraph preachers. That's. That's. That's a little more of what I do. There's a lot of guys that. That. That's. That's what Joby Martin does. Joby Martin's a paragraph preacher.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, man, there's. It's really nice. I love when you can sentence preach. It's really nice.

[B]

Yeah. So anyway, so that's what we were doing. We were saying I. I am.

[A]

It's fire.

[B]

Duh. Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so the point you made is that what you did is you hit the I am statement. And a lot of people don't know this. When you read the Book of John, there's like a spine to the Book of John. And you alluded to this, that the Book of John hangs off seven I am statements. And obviously for people who are maybe not as initiated, it's not called the Tetragrammaton. The Tetragrammaton is what gets translated. Yahweh Lord.

[D]

Yeah, as Lord in our translations.

[A]

Yep. But the I am statements are explicit claims to deity. Because obviously the Old Testament, when God reveals himself to Moses. Hey, what's your name? Tell him I am sent you. I am who I am. And Jesus is very obviously.

[B]

Very obviously.

[A]

So the reason I want to hit this. Let's just do this real quick. We're going to throw it over to chat GBL T for a little Bible nerd thing here. What I want you to do, Paul, real quick is can you, like, give a quick overview? So what Jesus does throughout his ministry is he will explicitly imply his equality with the Father and his deity. But what you'll get is, because he mostly does implication instead of explication, what you'll get is you get dudes like Bart Ehrman or a lot of guys who are, you know, sort of critics of. And you'll, like, listeners will get this thrown at you. Jesus never claimed to be God. Yeah, Constantine made that up in 3. 26. You know, you get that. That stuff up. So Nasser alluded to it. Real quick, Paul, will you just bobble nerd out real quick. Give us a quick overview of Jesus claims towards deity and then we can chip in.

[D]

That's good. Yeah. Three. Three broad categories. Jesus said things only God could say. He did things only God could do. And he knew things only God could know.

[A]

I've never heard that before. That's so good.

[C]

That's why he's.

[A]

Do that one more time.

[B]

That's really good.

[D]

Things only God could do. He said things only God could say. And he knew things only God could know.

[A]

I think we're done here. Podcast was great.

[B]

Thank you, guys.

[C]

Appreciate it.

[A]

Okay, keep going.

[D]

And so, like, let's just kind of break these categories. And this is. Yeah, weigh in on things that I leave out. I mean, we could literally be here for hours. All the categories. But let's just go a few things. Things that Jesus said. So the most explicit you were referring to one was in John 8:58. Jesus says, Before Abraham was I am. But this is where you don't have to always do this. You can read your English translation and get plenty from it. But this is actually where it is helpful a little bit to know the Greek of just what Jesus was saying. And when the people who wrote the. The Gospel of John were trying to say John who wrote the Gospel, John was trying to say. So in the Greek, it says before Abraham was. Ego ami is what it would have said in Greek. He is referring to a specific thing that you alluded to, and that is from Exodus. Exodus, chapter four. I've got here the. What's called the Septuagint.

[A]

We only have one. I mean, Nasser might be able to do this, but there's only one guy at the table that I'm aware of that can literally read from his Greek New Testament and then his Septuagint. Explain what the Septuagint is, real quick.

[D]

Septuagint is a Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament. So actually, we will get into this in an upcoming episode where we talk about. We converse with Father Mike not in person, but just via video in terms of what's called the Apocrypha. And so you have the Greek Septuagint, which is the Greek translation of the Heroic Testament.

[A]

Carlos, you don't read the Septuagint in your free time?

[C]

No, I do not.

[A]

Do they have a Cuban translation?

[B]

Do they have it in Puerto Rican?

[C]

They don't know if you're listening.

[D]

From Cuba. We love you.

[C]

Shout out to. Shout out to all the Cubans joining live for you, bro. I'm sure they listen to this podcast.

[D]

All right, and so this is. This is from the book of Exodus.

[C]

This.

[D]

I almost read it in Greek because you were making.

[C]

I was gonna say you should read it.

[D]

That is God spoke to Moses.

[A]

Look at this.

[D]

And then it says, legon ego emi, saying I am.

[C]

And so last week, last week, Paul was flexing his tricep. Today, he's flexing his language skills over here. Stop.

[D]

So it's like right there. I mean, literally. So Jesus is speaking to these religious leaders, says, before Abraham was I am. And by the way, they immediately want to kill him. And because they know what he's doing, it's because he's referring directly to this, where God says to Moses, I am. And then just after this, because he says, I am the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham. So when Jesus says, before Abraham was I am, he is directly going back to this and quoting that Also, you get, like you mentioned another way, one of these. In John 10:30, Jesus says, the Father and I are one. He doesn't mean, oh, yeah, we're like on the same team or we agree on things. Like, again, when he says this, the people that listen to him immediately want to do what? They want to kill him. They want to stone him because he had killed, committed blasphemy. Let me give you one more. There's this great thing in the Book of John as well, where the disciples are on the boat and they're freaked out. And Jesus appears and he says it is I don't be afraid. Which is kind of just a weird thing to say. Just like listening to it. What he says in the Greek is ego eimi. I am don't be afraid. And he is referencing Psalm 108. So many people miss this. This is Psalm 108, 27, 30. Then they cried to the Lord in the trouble. Kind of like when the disciples, all of a sudden, when the storm, it says, they cried out, lord, Lord. You know, kind of. And he delivered them from their distress. He made the storm be still, and the waves of the sea were hushed. Then they were glad that the waters were quiet, and he brought them to their desired haven. And in the context who is doing this, Yahweh, God himself is doing this. So Jesus says things that only God could say. He also did things only God could do. For example, like I just mentioned, he walked on water. Only God could. Could do that. In Mark 2:57, 2:5 through 7, he forgives sins.

[A]

That's a big one. It's a. This is a big one.

[B]

Because.

[A]

Explain this real quick. Your average Bible reader will read past this, and there's that confusing little phrase like, hey. Which is easier to say, get up and walk, or to say, your sins are forgiven. And your average Bible reader doesn't realize what's happening there. Exactly. See, I talk about this real quick. Yeah.

[D]

And so even, like going back to the Psalms. The Psalms, it talks about man. One of the reasons that the Lord, Yahweh is amazing is because he is the one who not only heals our diseases, but he does what he forgives our sins. And so in Mark 2, Jesus is with the paralytic. This is that story where the guys bring him. They lower him down the mat, and he just looks at him. And even though, like, he has an immediate felt, but which by the way, he addresses, he said, your sins are forgiven. And the people listening are ticked off. Like, who can forgive sins but God

[A]

alone That's literally what the verse says. Yes. Who can forgive sins but God alone? And Jesus is going, I'm him, bro.

[D]

I'm him. And so Jesus obviously at that point, because he's early in his ministry, and if he says something like that, it's immediately going to come to a head and it's not his time yet. And so he basically says, okay. And so then he says, well, what is easier to do that or to forgive? And so he forgives the guy.

[A]

Both.

[D]

The implication is like, he never denied that he couldn't forgive. He didn't say, oh, my bad, yeah, only God can forgive. He's like, no, I'm going to heal the guy. I'm going to meet his immediate physical need. But I also still forgave him of his bigger need, that I forgave him of the sins.

[A]

I just want to make sure. Because that one is significant. So for listeners, like if. And I'm not making a joke, I'm just an analogy. If Carlos punches Paul and Paul's mad about it, and I say to Carlos, I forgive you. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't. That doesn't make any. Hey, the sin wasn't against you. That's right. You can't forget. So the implication of Jesus saying, I forgive your sins, the obvious implication is it's from Psalm 51, against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight. And Jesus is explicitly claiming there every sin you've ever committed was against me because I'm Yahweh.

[D]

Exactly. Another thing. And then I'll move to things that Jesus knew. So these are things that Jesus did that only God could do. He received worship. So in Matthew 14, it says, those in the boat worshiped him, saying, truly, you are the Son of God. Now, other places in scripture, people are tempted to worship angels and do other worship, other things like that. And immediately what do always angels do? Like, no, no, no, no. Worship is reserved for God alone. So it says, truly, you are the Son of God. And it says, they worshiped him. And then this is the next verse. And when they had crossed over, they came to the land against Herod. So what you don't get is Jesus saying, no, no, no, no, no, this is inappropriate. This is inappropriate. Do not worship me. He receives their worship because he is the only one worthy of worship. Some things that Jesus knew that only God could know. He knew the thoughts of religious leaders. In the Book of Mark, it talks about how he knew their thoughts and he knew what they were thinking.

[A]

There is no Other example of a prophet in the Bible that had insight into the thoughts of a person. Is there. I can't think of one.

[D]

Not as they're having it, no. And then Also in John 1, it says this, talking about a guy named Nathaniel, Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward him and said of him, behold an Israelite indeed in whom there is no deceit. Nathaniel said to him, how do you know me? Jesus answered him, before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you. You. And this isn't like, oh, like, from 100 yards away. This is literally. He was not there. Only God is everywhere, and only God knows all things. So he knows things that only God could know that he was under this fig tree. And look at Nathaniel's response. He answered him, rabbi, you are the Son of God. So Jesus did things only God could do. He knew things only God could know. And he said things only God could say. May have left out some things that you want.

[A]

There's a million of them.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So let's. If there's one that we missed, let's chime it in, because here's why I'm doing this for listeners. You will 100% get a question either from your. One more that's got a legitimate question, or from somebody that's like. The biblical term for this type of person is a scoffer. Somebody that's trying to. They're doing reverse evangelism on you. You're gonna get this. So I'll just chime in a couple more. They're like my favorite little inceptiony deep cuts. So one of my favorite ones is John 9, where there's the dude that's born blind. And it's the whole, hey, who. Who sent this guy? Or his parents?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the guy comes up and. And Jesus is like, I can. I'll heal you. And when you read it, the first time you read it, you're like, what the heck? This is so stinking rude of Jesus. Why is he so rude and nasty? Because it says that he spits in the ground and makes mud with saliva. Remember? And he puts it on the. Dude, I'm. I'm gonna get emotional. And he puts it on the eyes of the guy, and the guy can see. And at first you read it and you're like, what the heck, man? But then if you remember, you go back to Genesis 1, and when God the Father Yahweh created mankind, he created him out of the dust of the earth. And so Jesus, when he does that, he's going, hey, man, Let me take some dust and put it on those eyes. And it was a revelation moment where he's. He's putting dirt on this guy's eyes. And it's essentially like that moment in the movie where he turns to the camera and goes, I have done this before.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah, that was me in Genesis 1 that did this.

[C]

It's recreation, too. The new creation in Christ. Wow.

[A]

The other one. Well, you do one.

[B]

No, man.

[A]

So you got. The other one is. That I love. Seriously, we do this all day. The Bible just. There's layers to this, man. There's levels to this. This. The transfiguration account is the obvious one. His face transformed like lightning, you know? And remember, the two dudes that are on the mountain, you got Moses and Elijah. Okay, well, there's two. There's two levels to that one. One, both of those guys had encounters with the Father. Yahweh on a mountain. Moses encounters God on Sinai. Elijah counter encounters the Father on Horeb. And so it's like. It's. Honestly, you're getting this. This moment where it's like, let's have a reunion. We've met on top of a mountain before, and it's Jesus. But then the other one, dude, this is.

[B]

I love it so much.

[A]

So Moses, to my knowledge, only has two requests in his entire life in Exodus, turned down by God. One, remember. He goes, hey, show me your glory. And God's like, hey, man, I love you. I can't do that. And remember what he says. He says, no man shall see my back. Face. No face. He turns it back to him. No man shall see my face and live. The other request Moses has declined is, man. I really want to enter the promised land. And God's like, man, because of your disobedience, you can't. But then you fast, oh, dude, the Bible's so great. But then you fast forward to that. That moment on the transfiguration account, and Moses appears, and he's talking with Jesus. His face is transfigured like lightning. And what's Moses seeing? The face of God. And he's in the promised land.

[B]

Come on.

[D]

It's just like.

[C]

Just like.

[D]

Well, and I'll show. This could be a good segment because.

[C]

Wait, before.

[A]

One more, one more.

[C]

Because this is tied to what David preached, you know, so some point out as well that in Luke 9, the feeding of the 5,000, it seems to nod to the good shepherd in Psalm 23. And so I've never heard this. Psalm 23 says in the original language, jehovah is my shepherd. The Lord is my shepherd. In other Gospels, Jesus sees the crowd and he. The Bible says he had compassion over them because they're like sheep without a Shepherd. In Psalm 23, he says he makes me lie down in green pastures. In Luke, Jesus literally makes them lie down in green pastures. In Psalm 23, it says, My cup overflows. In Luke 9, it says, Twelve baskets of leftovers were picked up. There's an overflow.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

In Psalm 23, it says, the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. Luke 9 says, all ate and all were.

[B]

Why didn't you tell me this before?

[A]

That would have been in the sermon.

[B]

Carlos.

[C]

Jesus is the good shepherd. Jesus is Jehovah.

[B]

Come on.

[D]

Because I think this would be a good segue back to. In terms of when we were talking about sharing your faith and just meeting needs. That was a huge part of the that I gotta care about my eyes are gonna sweat stories.

[B]

Can I. Can I just say this? I'm sorry. As people are hearing this, they're like, they're about to turn the corner and now sales pitch us to have to go and share our faith. And it's not lost on me in this story that Jesus doesn't need the fish and the bread from the little boy. He doesn't have to physically hold fish and bread to do them. Like he. He doesn't. Like, the only way I got, guys, all you've got is, you know, pork. And so I'm just gonna have to get to multiply pork, because you don't have to. Jesus could have. But the little boy brings the little bit that he has insufficient, and he invites him into the story. He gets to be a part of the bigger thing than him. Jesus always did that. You bring water to me, I'll turn it into wine. You bring the insufficient little bit that you got. And I'm inviting you to. So I want, as we start to turn a corner of, like, how do you win your friend to the Lord? It's not like, like, oh, man, now they're going to turn it on me. It's like, we get to participate. We get to be the little boy.

[D]

People miss this detail in Luke. I love it because basically the disciples, like, oh, there's all these people. And Jesus is like, you give them something to eat.

[B]

Yeah, that's right.

[D]

He's like, I want you to be a part. He's like, I want you to be a part of this. Yeah. The story from Luke, it's just a place that, again, just. It shows. I believe Jesus's divinity, but it also just shows his compassion, meeting of needs. There's a story where he goes into this town, I believe it was named, and he's going, and there's a funeral procession, and it's this woman who has just lost her only son, and she was a widow. And so in this culture, that means she would have been destitute and vulnerable and no way to support herself and could have been taken advantage of. And it says that when Jesus saw her, he had compassion on her. But the Greek literally says, his insides turned. His. His insides turned. And he said, woman, do not cry. Which is. It seems like a very insensitive thing to say. But then he touches out and he puts his hand on the coffin, which in that culture is the big thing here. In that culture, if you touch a coffin, you're unclean. Like, you're unclean. Never touched that. Unclean. And yet Jesus reaches his hand out and touches the coffin, and he raises the son back up, and it says he gives him back to his mother as a way to take care of her. And yet. And so not only did Jesus have compassion on this woman, but what's interesting is when Jesus did that, he didn't become unclean. He restored life back to something that was dead.

[A]

That's right.

[D]

And only God can do that again, Jesus can do only things that God can do. And he met that need in that moment.

[B]

Those three things, you just can. Can you just do them one at a time? Just real quick? Just. Just, just. He did.

[D]

Jesus said things only God could say.

[B]

Stop. Forget the Bible stories. Jesus said to David Nazar, to Carlos, to Josh. Jesus said to me, can you testify to this? He sent it to you in Spanish. She said it to me in Texan. But Jesus said to me, only things that God could say.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What's the second one?

[D]

Jesus did things only God could do.

[B]

I mean, if you're on a treadmill right now, listening to this podcast, did Jesus do things for you that only God could do? Forget everybody else.

[A]

Amen, dude.

[B]

This ain't 2000 years ago on a dusty hill in places that you have not been able to go yet. This is like, Jesus said things to David Nasser that only God could say. Jesus did things for David Nasser that only God could do. And what's the third one?

[D]

Jesus knew things only God could know.

[B]

I mean, can we personalize? Is that true about him right now in your life?

[A]

This guy's got some preaching.

[C]

Yes, he does.

[A]

He's got some preaching.

[B]

I mean, I just want to Say like, my goodness, I can testify to that.

[C]

Amen.

[A]

Let me put a bow on this. And then what I do want to do is let's get real practical. Because if you have a spiritual pulse, then you care about people coming to know Jesus. And every one of us. I got people that every time I talk about makes my eyes sweat. I'll pray for them. I'll pray for him 50 years till the day I die. Want them to come to know Jesus. Everybody's got that. So let's get real practical here in a second. And just like cookies on the bottom shelf, here's what a normal dude, normal girl can do to move the needle in somebody's life. Let me just put a bow on this. If you're listening to this, you're like, all that stuff's really cool. Okay, but you know Jesus, God, Are you sure? What I say is if you zoom out, this is really what the whole book of the Gospel of John is about. And I just want to point this out. There are seven I am statements. He already hit it. Echo. Ame. That's the same name for God in the Old Testament. There's seven of them, obviously in Hebrew. Hebrew language is all about. It's alphanumeric. It's numbers are a big deal. Seven is the number of perfection. So just want to point this out. You have seven I am statements. He's Jesus very, very clearly going, man, I am the perfection of the character of the Godhead personified in human form. So you just zoom out and you got it right there. Now let's just get real. Pract practical and who. I don't care who starts. He might want to start. Actually. Dave, why don't you start? Let's just get real practical. Cookies on the bottom shelf. Maybe each of us go, I've got a. I've got, you know, everybody's got their, like your, your go to move. I've got my go to move on. Here's how I help somebody move them from here to here towards Jesus. Let's kind of maybe go. What, what's your go to move or a practical tip, Dave, you want to start us? Because you had something really actually like super interesting happen at Liberty and that kind of actually encapsulates something. So you want to do your little thing here?

[B]

Yeah, I mean if you're asking me, just the normal day to day strategy that I hold is blood of the lamb, word of our testimony. And I don't know if that's what you were asking about, but to me that's the one, two punch. I mean, you need lost to be. To do evangelism. You need lost people. You need the good news, and you need a way to. To present the good news. And so the blood of the lamb, word of our testimony. So, like, to me, it's make sure that you tell your own life story, that it's not always about Bible stories of what happened to them, but, like, what happened to me. I can tell you that. I know that this is. So share your story. And we all really have one story to tell. Jesus is the hero of all. We all meet at the foot of the same cross. And then make sure you get to the blood of the Lamb. Make sure you share the good news of the gospel. And. And when it comes to gospel presentation, to me in a. In a conversational sense with somebody, I'm typically trying to just bring him to the reality. The other day I was talking to someone and I was just. I'm literally sitting with them on a plane. So we're kind of side looking at each other, and I'm like, man, I start with like, you exist. I'm like, do you believe you exist? Like, this is not a thought. You're not a emotional gas. You're like a human being and you exist. He's like, yeah, and if he'd have said no, I'd have pinched him or something, you know, like, well, maybe not. And then Iranian pinching people on a plane is probably different than you pinching someone, but, you know, you exist. Like, you exist. And so, like, you start with like, you exist. Like, okay, and then you don't have to convince people, like, you exist and you're a sinner. Like, no one had to teach you how to sin. You grew up in this world born Adamic by nature. Like, I like to take people to, like, take a baby. And those of you who are fathers know, like, you don't have to teach your children how to lie. I don't care how sheltered they are.

[D]

So.

[B]

So, like, you exist and you exist. The sin that you're committing is just the evidence of who you are. You exist, born in this world a sinner. So get people to understand their depravity.

[A]

That's good.

[B]

You know that they exist and they exist unable to save themselves. They exist in need of a Savior so that you exist and you're a sinner. So however long that takes, it doesn't take a whole lot, by the way, to convince people that they're sinners and you're not pointing at them and all their sins you're pointing at yourself and saying, like, we've all sinned and fallen short. So you exist, exist. And then you go. And then, like. Then you take them, like. And then God exists. That part. Sometimes people go, well, explain it. And. And so you're just like man. Even if they believe in creation. Well, then. Well, who? You believe in a bang. Okay, well then, where did the bang come from? It came from a nucleus. Well, where did the nucleus come from? It came from, you know, an atom, a nucleus. Well, send a nucleus that. I don't know, like, you break it down, break it down, break it down. Eventually, there had to be a causer who caused all things to begin. So, like, there can you just. Unless you know all things, which would then make you a God, then you have to presume at the very least that it's big enough, it's bigger than me, that all of this was not circumstance. So you exist, and there has to be a God who exists. You exist a sinner. God exists as sinless. And because of that, we've got a problem, problem. And the problem is God exists as perfect. You exist as imperfect. And that separates us from God. So now you've created the dilemma which is actually the reality. That's an MRI of where we are. God's real, we're real, and we have a real problem. Boom. Sin. Then you go, you can't go to church enough. You can't sing loud enough. You can't write a tithe check big enough. You can't to remove that barrier. And that's what most religions are. Most religions are, how do I climb, how do I remove? Or how do I work? Work instead of worship, how do I try instead of trust, how do I, you know, earn instead of yearn? And all these things that we say. So God exists, you exist. Sin exists. Sin separates us from God. And then you go, and then God so loves you that he sends one way, he sends his son. Every other religion in the world is man climbing up and trying to figure out how to remove the barrier on its own. God is actually the last God. Come down, Immanuel. God with us. He comes down and Jesus comes and lives the perfect life and then dies a sinner's death on our behalf. And so I like to really simplify it. Like, you can take someone who takes the word of God as valid to the Roman road, but that if they don't believe in the source, that God's word is his inerrant, then how far can you go with them if you're Taking them to the Roman road. And they don't believe in the road, you know, but to me, I like someone who's investigating Jesus to kind of come down to the reality of like, you're real, God is real, sin is real, it's a really big problem. And the Bible actually says the problem isn't that you gotta clean up problems. You're dead and you need resurrection. And then I like to show them that's how God made one way his son. And then that's when I began to explain the gospel. And so usually that's a fun conversation because you're breaking it down and you're actually asking them questions, you're giving them, them pieces of it one bite at a time. And so again, and then don't forget, it's the blood of the Lamb, which is the gospel, Adam, just sharing there. But it's the word of your testimony. Then you testify to it in your own life. And so that's the formula I like to use. Some people use a beaded bracelet, some people use a track that predictably opens up into a cross. All of those work. There is no wrong method. But the truth of the matter is you testify to it in your own life. Because no one can ever discount the fact that like, like this is what God did in Carlos's life, in Paul's life, in my life. And then you bring in the gospel you share about a Jesus who lived a perfect life, he who knew no sin that became sin, so that you could become the righteousness of God. So that's the way I normally share the gospel with people.

[C]

Well, hey, Lake Point family baptism weekend here at Lake Pointe is coming up on May 2nd and 3rd. And if you're part of our church family here in any of our DFW physical locations and you have not yet taken that step of baptism, hey, we would love to invite you to do so. Text the word LIFE to 20411 to sign up today. And by the way, if you're not within driving distance of any of our physical locations, we would love to encourage you to get plugged into a local Bible believing Jesus loving church and take that step of baptism with a local community as well. Also, you're welcome. Welcome to join us for church online to celebrate those getting baptized here at Lake Point on May 2nd and 3rd as well. And now back to the podcast. David, how have you applied that framework to literally, like, some of the relationships you've had? Some people might not know this, but you've had a lot of relationships high Profile, high influence. People like Donald Trump, Jordan Peterson, Bernie Sanders. How have you applied that framework to those relationships?

[B]

Yeah, well, first of all, I didn't always do it right. And you're talking about, about my old job at Liberty University when I would host convocation, was an interesting job because convocation, that word convocation, means to convene, would bring people together. And convocation was a gathering of our student body at Liberty. But it wasn't chapel. If it's a chapel, it's always a pulpit. And we're always bringing in the Josh Howertons of the world, which we brought in, by the way, and our students loved. But when Josh is there as a guest speaker for us, guest preacher for us, it's a pulpit because he's preaching. By the way, we're violently guarding who we put up in the pulpit. Which is why I don't take lightly that you would trust me in yours today, Josh. You know, I don't know it's God's pulpit, but you know what I mean? So that's a pulpit, and so that's different. But there were days when we're convening and it was actually a platform, not a pulpit. And what we wanted to do was we wanted to bring in people that didn't share our faith that we could actually learn from. I wanted to build the immune system of our students, spiritual immune system of our students, by platforming people we didn't agree with. Not just when it came to the matters of faith, but matters of politics, matters of life, matters of theology, philosophy, sociology. I wanted to bring in people to let them learn from people that like, hey, he's got four points. I adamantly disagree with one, kind of don't know about the second. And agree with two.

[A]

Great.

[B]

You can learn from Jordan Peters.

[A]

Jordan Peterson, exactly.

[B]

So, like when we brought in Dr. Peterson, it was an interesting moment. Like I remember, I really admired what he was doing. He had become a prominent voice at that moment. And his book was the best selling book in the world. Like Michelle Obama's book was number one, his book was number two. And so that moment, like everyone was reading his book, it was a lot of our men were reading his book. And so we were hearing from our students. And so we had two things in mind. Number one, I thought he has things to say that we want to learn from. Number two, he doesn't share our faith. And I cannot wait for him to get the best of liberty. And the best of liberty was not the way we did hospitality or the way we took care of tiny little. Those things were fine. It was our students. We had lovely students. Like, I couldn't wait for him to be. That guy was going to places where literally people were taking bricks. Paul. Throwing him through the stained glass window at Harvard to try to silence him for speaking. So everywhere he was going, he was meeting hostility, hostility, hostility, hostility. And I was like, I can't wait for him to come and be around hospitality.

[A]

So you were like, leveraging those moments as evangelism for those guys, bro. Like, big time.

[B]

The week. The week he was coming, our students knew whenever I pulled up a stool, like, oh, we're about to turn the camera off. So I remember, like, we get done with. I don't know who the convo guest was that day, but, like, everybody, they go, hey, one more. And they'd see it. It was almost like Pavlov's. Like, they'd be like, he's got the stool. He's having a heart. Heart. And so I'd pull the stool. And they knew to turn the cameras off. And our students knew, like, hey, 99% of you with me, you 99% hold the 1% accountable. Don't get your phones out and record. And I would say, hey. And I remember telling our students, we have Dr. Jordan Peterson coming next week. This man's either going to be the C.S. lewis or the. Or the Nietzsche of Argentina. This guy's seeking. He's a deep thinker. I just want you to know how we hold ourselves, our witness on this is going to be pivotal for us. And so just. Just remember, we got company. And when mom and dad tell you you got company, like, you just like. And he's not. They're not asking you to be fake. They're just asking you to like, hey, they're valuable. So treat them with your best. Put your best forward. So then by the time. So then Dr. Peterson comes, by the way, he. He lets us know last second his mom's coming, which was awesome.

[A]

Wow, that's amazing.

[B]

So his mom. No more than ever. So all of a sudden, we're not getting this highbrow academic. Were getting who she calls Jordy.

[A]

That's awesome.

[B]

And he's saying big words at dinner, and she's like, jordy, don't say three syllable words. It's awesome. And he's just hanging out. He only eats red meat. So, like, we're like, hey, if you want to come hang. So he had three meals with me. All three were only red meat.

[A]

My wife does that.

[B]

Yeah. And so he comes, is this Him. Look at that precious moment. That's a steak. Come on, bro.

[A]

That's a tomahawk.

[B]

That's a tomahawk.

[A]

That's a steak.

[B]

And they told us, by the way, his booking agent said. They said, hey, please don't put him in a weird position. Don't ask him to come eat with you, because he's on a strict diet and stuff. And I was like, of course. But we're sitting there and we're cutting up. You know, I'm picking him up, and as we're driving, I mean, we're getting to our venue, you know, the night before, we're cutting up. And. And I can tell, like, he's kind of actually. He's not being polite. He's into the conversation. His mom is into the conversation. I think, honestly, his mom being there helped us get warmer quicker. And then she goes, I'm hungry, or something like that. And I said, hey, hey. I said, Dr. P, I know you're supposed to say no. I'm not even supposed to ask you, but I just want to tell you, I've got three fat Delmonicos like they're yubba dubba doo. He goes, what do you mean? I said, they're like Flintstones. They got that bone sticking out. I said, they are from an organic place, organic farm. Like, no one's touched them. And so I know you like it clean, sir. I said, there's no salt on it. There's no pepper. You can do it. I said, if you want to come to the house, we'll just grill a steak and we won't go long.

[A]

And was that the house that I came up?

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

That's awesome.

[B]

And so I was like. But no pressure at all, because I know you probably got your own food. And he was like, okay. So he came for an hour. He stayed for three and a half.

[D]

Wow.

[B]

And by the way, then we're just, like, most of it isn't philosophy, and we're just cutting up, and we're talking life. And he's asking me, by the way, he's asking me, like, who are you? Because I'm weird. And I'm telling him my story, you know, and we're sharing the. I'm telling them the gospel, and we're talking about other guests that have come, and he's talking about stuff.

[A]

So this is, like, super effective. This is evangelism right here. Yeah.

[B]

We're just hanging.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

By the way, can I just brag on my team, I wasn't going to tell you this Part. But I'm also stalling a little bit because we didn't know his mom was coming. Coming. Okay. But now we found out his mom's coming last second. So while he's at dinner. Yeah, okay. While he's at dinner. Our team was so good at hospitality. Hospitality is love for the stranger.

[A]

It's the best. I've spoken a lot of great places that have been amazing. Nobody's ever topped what y' all did when I came. Spoke of liberty.

[B]

Wow. Yeah. And when you say y', all, it's them, not me. I was just. I was getting credit. A lot of time for our team.

[A]

Team.

[B]

This was them. They. They've good hospitality sometimes is borders on stalking. They're just Googling like Dora Peterson's mother. Da, da, da. They find out that she had said in an article, like, now that your son is, like, a millionaire because he's written a book that's 12 million people have purchased. And she had mentioned, maybe he'll buy me a Hermes scarf. We are. Listen, we are in. We're in Lynchburg. There's, like, two RVs and a TJ Maxx. There ain't no Hermes, you know.

[C]

Hilarious.

[B]

So while we're eating dinner and we're stalling, one per. They have called someone in D.C. who is driven to Tyson's corner, who is FaceTiming and picking out a tie and a scarf from Hermes.

[A]

That's incredible.

[B]

They're buying it. Okay. They're driving halfway down to Charlottesville while another one of my team is driving up halfway to Charlottesville. They meet. They're driving back. I'm getting texts. Like. Like, 13 minutes away, 14 minutes. By the time they. They ended up in their room, there's an Hermes scarf sitting by. And that. I'm not talking about being bougie. I'm talking about being intentional.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

So the next morning, he. When he came up the elevator, you know what he said to me? It's one of the greatest compliments. Huh?

[C]

You got him.

[B]

Elevator door opens up. His mom's wearing her scarf. He's wearing the tie kind of. And he goes, how did you know? I go, what do you mean? He goes, how did you know? My mom, like, see the stuff that's on your contract, but you went on the stuff that's not on your contract. You went on, like, your mom matters to you. She matters to us.

[D]

That's good.

[B]

And it wasn't about the expensive scarf. It was about the fact that we valued the opportunity to win the right to make him Feel at home. And sometimes it's not a scarf. Sometimes it's actually the opposite. That like spending a lot of money can make somebody feel distant. But this one was like, this was fun. And our team was nerding out on it. When she goes, how did you know? Honestly, the answer was, I didn't know. Our team knew, but they thought so then we're already like warmed up in it. Well, we're sitting on stage, we're doing the Q and A. And I'm trying to talk to him about these things, but again, he's not a believer. He's using different kind of language than us. You know, he talks. He calls the supernatural. The psychedelic, for example. You know, the psychedelic. And I'm like, what do you mean? The things that are unexplained? So we're having this dialogue and while we're having this talk, Josh, this young man with pink hair, college age student.

[A]

This is why he's on stage.

[B]

He's on stage. People can Google it. It's at like 10 million hits. You know, the video. I'm listening to him in the Q and A. So I'm looking this way, Dr. Peterson's here. A couple others are on our, on our Q and A pan. And I'm looking and I see this. I see this man coming, walking. This young man walking down the steps, and we have 12,000 people in the room. And he's got hot pink hair. And the next thing you know, this guy jumps on stage.

[A]

I'm looking at it right now, and

[B]

when he jumps on stage, I just go towards him and I'm like, what just happened? And in my mind I thought he had something behind his hand. So I thought, is it a gun? What is it? You know, So I thought I get into protect mode, like, I've got to protect our students. And he jumps on stage and he starts screaming, I need help, I need help. Which freaks me out even more. Then I see that it's. What he's got on in his hand is actually a phone. He's dialed 911 already. And it's. So I thought, does he have a bomb? Does he? You know, just. You're uncertain and he's freaking out. Well, so the next thing you know, you realize, like, he's in this moment. This, this young man just is a. His methodology is horrible, but he's actually honest enough. He's crying out for help. And he wasn't even a Liberty student. He had just come to the room because he loved Jordan Peterson. And he jumps on stage and he's just crying out for help. Well, anyway, so then we get him off stage. I'm telling the security, do not take this guy to the police station. Take him to the hospital. Like, this guy's not trying to harm people. He's crying out for help. And we get to that moment and everything. But when I was praying for him on stage, I looked to my left and Dr. Peterson had gotten out of his seat. He was standing there and he was weeping. And so sometimes I'm telling you that story to say sometimes God will use. God will use a trial. God will use trauma to fast forward testimony.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

So my goal was, we're going to get there, we're going to have a good conversation, we're going to inch forward. I hope that in years to come, I'll be able to have a relationship with him and our students can talk to him about the Lord. But, buddy, all that got incubated in a greenhouse called. Some guy just jumped on stage thing. You know, like, we are like. And then at lunch, we are having a gospel literally on stage. We. We escort that young man offstage and everything. I sit down beside him and he wasn't in my Q&As. And I said, Dr. Peterson, I need to ask you, what do I tell this young man? Like, he. I don't think he needs any more rules. That's the name of his book.

[C]

Nice.

[B]

I think he needs the ruler.

[A]

Wow, that's great, dude.

[B]

And he wore salad through that. Even though he's amazing. I'm sure he made sense above my grade level and everything. But there's moments where, like, you developing with somebody for three years, but then all of a sudden the B. The doctor tells them the bump is back, they've got cancer, and they're coming to you. You thought, it'll take two years to get there. And they're like, this is bigger than me. You're the only Christian I know. What do I do?

[A]

Like, when I listen to your story, you know, we need a. We got. This guy's got to preach. We got to move mentally. So what a big idea there is. Like, when I listen to that story, he left going, nobody treated me better than the Christians. Yeah.

[B]

Yes. But bigger than that, I didn't have on my docket that we're going to have deep gospel conversations. I was going to naturally go at the pace of the relationship, but the relationship, you're forged by fire. All of a sudden we're like, oh. And then I'm like, well, I got the window now. I didn't think I was going to get a lane. Now I got a lane. So then lunch became about gospel, about Jesus.

[A]

That's amazing. So I'll do, like, if I'm giving my. I've got a. Here's my go to move, and then we can round robin. And then if you want to do the Bernie thing, I'd love to. We can do that real fast. So my go to move, the same thing I did it this week on the plane, is. Is you go. It's. Here's just to help people remember. You go three questions. You go three questions deep to find out how you can pray for them. And then usually they're going to ask you something. So, like, I do the same thing every single time. Do it on the plane this week with a guy named Scott next to me is. We just start talking and it's. It's get three questions deep. We live in a culture where everybody stays surface level. How you doing? Good. That's it. I. My goal is go three questions deep. How you doing? Good. Oh, man. Tell me what's going on that makes you say that. And then like, okay, so now I'm two questions deep. Well, man, I said, good. Because, like, this guy this week, he was traveling. He was traveling back from a ski trip. I think it was in Austria or something like that. So I got this thing going back with my son. I don't want to do details too much in case he figured out who I was and listens. Got the thing going with my son, and I got to give one of my sons good news and one of my sons bad news. Oh, man. Do you mind me asking? Now I'm three questions deep. Oh, dude, I can tell this matters to you. Do you mind me asking what's the bad news you got to give your son? Do you mind me asking? And now all of a sudden, he gets to something where his eyes start sweating. Now I'm three questions deep. And when somebody gets to emotion, the reason God puts emotion in you is to put you in motion. So when he gets to the spot where now there's at least a little bit of emotion, now I've got my window. And I just always do the same thing. Hey, dude, this may sound weird. I'm a pastor. Pastor. Do you mind if I pray for you? Or I'll just say, man, I'm going to be praying for that. And here. Here's what. What. I don't always get to the spot where I'm explaining the gospel in that conversation. But what I'm trying to do is move them from maybe they're a negative six, I got them to a negative five. They're going to leave that going, man, that Christian was a thoughtful person. He cared about me and he's praying for me. And then this is a little cherry on top. I. I started doing this recently. Who did I get this from? I can't remember where I got it from. Oh, I got it from R.T. kendall. I got this from R.T. kendall. And he told me this and I added it to my little thing. So after I pray for him or I tell him I'm going to pray for him, I'll say something like this. I did this to this guy on the plane. I was like, hey, man, I feel like sometimes I don't know why God does this with me. He'll put me in a place to talk to somebody at a pivotal time in their life. I've just seen he does it a lot. And I got this from RT Kendall. If anything happens in your life in the next few days that confirm for you something that I'm praying for or the work of God in your life, you need to know that the God of Jesus Christ did this for you. And you need to take that as confirmation from that.

[C]

That's amazing.

[A]

And it's almost like you're planting this little, this little time bomb. No.

[B]

100%.

[A]

And then from there, I'm just trusting the sovereignty of God is going to do what he does.

[C]

That's right. And he does God be like, oh, I'm not gonna do anything about that. He's for sure. We'll just get in there and do whatever he needs.

[B]

But what's, what's so powerful? There is all of what you just said is you're sitting down and you're actually like a high level mega church pastor podcast.

[A]

Never tell them that.

[B]

But you're not trying to be interesting.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

You're being interested. And so instead of trying to be impressive, you're trying to make an impression.

[A]

Tell me about you. I'm interested in.

[B]

Tell me about you. What's going on with you. You're curious. Curiosity. And it's amazing how people will quickly open up to you.

[A]

Wide open.

[B]

Yep. Yeah.

[A]

You guys got go to moves.

[C]

I got a quick one. I mean, mine's very simple. I've learned more and more whenever I'm having one of those potential opportunities, whenever I'm potentially going to share my faith with somebody, I just pray and I'll pray. I've learned that people are not products. And sometimes what I used to think, if I'm going to. If I have, like, my strategy one, two, and three, I'm just going to figure out which one to apply. You know, sometimes people are in a different spot. I just don't know them. I. My. I had a mechanic come here, meet me at the parking lot, like, a month ago for my car. And I just had that sense, man, I need to share the gospel with this guy. And so I'm praying. I'm like, God, how? I just don't want to force it. I don't want to be awkward. I just, just. If it works, it works. And again, just one prayer. God help me. I want to. I want to do this. And so literally, see his. He has a cross tattoo. Immediately, the Holy Spirit is like, that's it. Hey, bro, I like your tattoo.

[B]

Thanks.

[C]

Are you a Christian? Nah, I'm not. I just like the cross. Oh, like, you know, how come? Tell me more about that.

[B]

Oh, well.

[C]

Da, da, da, da. Here we go. And back to what you said, Josh, about confirming. You know, I'm asking him. It's like, oh, so, you know, asking, having those conversations about his faith. And he said, man, that's funny that you're asking me this, because literally, I have not been to church in a long time. I'm in a church parking lot right now. My wife this week told me I need to consider coming back to church. And here you are asking me this conversation about this, and it's exactly what you just said.

[A]

Yeah. So this John Wesley had this. He called. He called it the doctrine of prevenient grace.

[B]

Grace.

[A]

Where John Wesley, I think he. He pulled it out of Acts 8, Ethiopian Eunuch, where he said, hey, man, what will. What will force multiply your evangelism is if you begin to believe prevenient grace means to go before.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he was like, if you start believing that every person you talk to God has been at work in their lives before that moment to prepare them for their encounter with you, your evangelism will radically change.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Love that.

[A]

That what you just did, that's pre. That's prevenient grace.

[C]

My job is to say everything becomes.

[B]

Becomes a divine appointment.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

When you believe it that way.

[A]

That's right.

[D]

Exactly right.

[C]

And I learned this from you. My job is not necessarily to close the deal right there. My job is to do whatever I can to help you move in the right direction towards Jesus.

[A]

All you gotta go to, really, is really just a little emotional gearship talking about a Trump assassination.

[D]

It's a variation. And then I can lead into the connected dot to something you said that was so great in terms of how you approach people. But I'll get there in a second. Which is just learning to ask good questions. Is this really what you said? And really in essence what you did did, which is just learning to ask good questions. Some of it can just be about their life. And so if you're building relationships with people, it's just if I'm at the ball field with someone and we're at the same place two or three times a week as me asking like, hey, I can ask, how's life going? That's very generic. That's like, hey, how's your family doing? And if they mention something, then you get two or three layers deep to what you're talking about. But then at some point when you get to beliefs, especially around God and things like that, or even around things like politics, you don't want to ask either with these words or with this tone, how could you believe? Believe that that's going to shut it down real fast. Instead you want to be more inquisitive and say, oh, like why do you believe that? And then keep asking them. There's a great book on this, Greg. I can never get his last name right. Kalko or Kukul. K O U K L. He wrote a book called Optics.

[A]

Huh.

[B]

Cool, Cool.

[D]

See, that's why I can't get it right. It's just a silent K, apparently. Anyways, I could be wrong. Go ahead. His whole thing is basically it's learning to ask good questions that you don't have to have all the answers. It's actually learning to ask good questions of them. And so it's like, why do you believe that? And then doing follow ups. And what you will learn is a lot of times people don' even know why they have the perspective they have. It's just they've adopted it for whatever reason. So learning to ask good questions is one of my go tos because that way I'm not having to do the heavy lifting of trying to convince them of something I might actually have lead them to convince them that they don't even believe what they say they believe kind of a thing. But to connect it up to what you said, David, what I love is you started with, hey, here is kind of my go to for sharing the gospel and then using my testimony as well. But then to connect the dot, then when you shared about what you did with Jordan Peterson and there's Also, you told me a story about Bernie Sanders that's about the posture. That's about saying, hey, I'm not coming in to try to win. So you can approach the conversations like these, like, I'm coming in to try to win and convince you I'm right and you're wrong. Instead, what asking questions does doing the approach that you did and also the approach you did, you're trying to win them over. And that's best going to happen when you treat them with hospitality and when you learn to ask good questions and try to. Instead of trying to win an argument.

[B]

And in asking those questions, the truth of it is, like, you actually have things to learn from them. There's something really powerful about the guy you sit by on the plane who's like a real estate guy, or the guy who's the mechanic guy, or the guy who's. They actually have things to teach you. You actually, when you ask questions and put them in the authority seat, like, I'm the student. You got something to teach me, like, because I genuinely, like, don't know as much about this as you do, Dr. Peterson, or you do Senator, or you do.

[A]

It opens up the heart.

[B]

Yeah. And actually puts them in the place where a lot of times we go to do missions, and we're the ones doing the serving. Sometimes you can do missions with the people that, like, you get the plumber to come, and he doesn't know the Lord, but he's actually the expert plumber. So the first 10 questions are actually you asking him questions. Now, how do we plumb this and how do we serve this? Question number 11 is now, do you know the Lord? But for 10 moments, he's been the authority.

[D]

That's right.

[B]

Right. So then he doesn't feel like you're a know it all because you don't know it all.

[D]

Exactly.

[B]

And so there's something beautiful about, like, asking questions simply because they actually have better answers, which then opens it up for you to be able to ask gospel questions, because you might be the one who actually has the bigger arrow to point to the. The gospel. Yeah.

[C]

Pastor Josh, you got a word on assassination?

[A]

Oh, yeah. All right. Hard, emotional.

[B]

Hard left.

[A]

Let's do this. So as the. Yeah. First of all, this is. I'll may just say this. These guys have no idea what I'm gonna say, and especially this guy. I never want to put somebody in a position where they're on the hook for the dumb thing I'm gonna say. So that's a. That's a quick preface so as the recording this podcast, it was 16 hours ago or so, there was the fourth, fourth legitimate assassination attempt on President Trump's life. There's two things that I honestly do think that we need to take away from this. So. And one of them, doctors call it the difference between a presenting cause and a root disease presenting ca. Root disease. So let me hit this real quick and then, and then we can, you guys can what? If you want to disagree with me, let's do it. So for those who don't know, go ahead and pull up that first pick, Trinity. So this last night, is it like my phone started blowing up. This is the moment at the White House correspondence dinner that the shooter, dude, Caltech grad, assembles a rifle in the lobby, if I understand correctly, and just starts this video now where he just like bolts like 40 yard dashes, you know, into the room, attempting to fire on people. Now, actually, about an hour before we started recording this, the manifesto that he wrote, assuming he was going to die, came out. And sure enough, obviously it was confirmed he was aiming for administration officials. He said his goal was to start at the top and go down so that he was going to try to take out whoever starting with the President and go down. That's the fourth, fourth one on President Trump's life. Now, let me, let me just point a couple things out. Richard Weaver, you guys probably heard of Richard Weaver before Rich. Richard Weaver, I think was a, he's kind of a cookies in the bottom shelf philosopher kind of guy. People use his little phrase that he coined, ideas have consequences. That's, that's Richard Weaver. What you have right here is I think you got, you have a presenting issue and then a root cause. Kind of the same way that if somebody's got, they got bone cancer, cancer, they may actually go into the doctor because, man, I got soreness over here. Or this is a little rash. And they think their rash is the issue. It's not the issue that, that's the presenting cause. There's a root disease. I think you got both those things going on here. So first of all, let me, let me talk presenting issue real fast. And then I want to talk root cause theologically and then, you know, we can, we can wrap it up. So first of all, again, let me just point this out. That is the fourth assassination attempt on that guy has life fourth. I also want to point out some really uncomfortable realities. Attorney, will you pull up those graphs? There's a, there's an incredible, there's an incredible amount of mounting evidence that is you know, for anybody that's got your eyes open, you can start to feel this. But it's like in data form. And by the way, all this stuff that I'm getting ready to show, these are not like Christians. These are not like conservative. This is not like, this is not like Newsmax data. Like, this is just. Just like, you know, just generalized stuff. So number one, you got this. This came out, I think, last year. Very liberal people are eight times more likely to say political violence is justified than very conservative people. It's 25% to 3%. Okay, go to the next one. This is this dude, if you know who this is, his name is Destiny. He is a massive progressive influencer. He's got nearly a million YouTube subs. You know, he's all over the place, does a lot of things stuff. This is a direct quote. Like, this is an actual quote. You need conservatives to be afraid of getting killed when they go to events right now. They don't feel like there's any fear now. This is not like a fringe voice. This is a dude with a million YouTube subs that is regularly interviewed by the New York Times. Okay, let me just let that sit. Go to the next one. This is one you can kind of, if you just. It's hard to see. The question that was presented in this study was how much do you feel it is justified for people to use violence. Violence to pursue their political goals in this country? You know, it's kind of like correlation is not causation, but it looks pretty correlated. It's like the farther you go left on the graph, you get extremely high affirmatives. And the farther you go right on the graph, you get extremely low. Now I'm driving at something. I want to talk about why again, we're going to Richard Weaver. Ideas have consequences. And what's the theology that's underneath idea ideology? This is where I think we got one more is. Yeah, yeah, this is political polls. Again, I'm not showing you Newsmax, like fringe right data sets. This is political polls. Like this is. You know, if you're not familiar, I think most people would say that's like a center left outlet. 70, 77 of Republicans believe it is always unacceptable to feel joy at the death of somebody they oppose. While only 38% of Democrats share this view, that's usually YouGov. So again, we're talking YouGov. This is not like a fringe thing. And then last one, and I don't want to get too incendiary here, but if you just zoom out in the last six, eight years of our nation. On the left is what happened in our nation after the death of Charlie Kirk. On the right is what happened in our nation after the death of what became a high profile somebody that was coded left. Okay. So you just start to see, I think people who are paying attention, they're going, hey dude, what's going on man? It seems like there's a really different response in these two things. Now what I want to point out here. Oh, actually and then show this video. This is Hassan Piker. Now before I show this Hassan Piker again, mad, like very, you know, honestly, mainstream, popular progressive commentator. In fact, this is an interview on a new. With a New York Times, I think in the last seven days. Days.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So this is not. Again, not fringe. This is New York times the last seven days. This is a 60 second clip. Listen closely to the language. I'm going to tie some things together. Listen closely to the language he uses. What he's doing right here is he's getting asked, you guys remember when that the insurance company CEO got assassinated in. Dude was like a. Yeah. United Healthcare CEO got shot in the back. This is like a dad with two, two young kids. And they asked him about what he thought about that. So this is a mainstream dude with the New York Times giving his response to the assassination. Again, political violence. And watch what he says. 60 second clip. Hassan Piker. Engels wrote about the concept of social murder. Pause. Okay, so let me just verbally highlight this. So he's introducing a concept, I'm not talking about Marxism here. In a second. He's introducing a concept called social murder. What he's saying, I don't have time to. What he's saying is, hey man, yeah, somebody was shot in the back. But honestly that guy actually committed, you know, murder because of the systemic nature of, you know, what's happening in our society. Really the way that he used, the way that our economy set up. He committed a form of what's called social murder that's kind of, it's embedded into the systems, is actually murderous. That's what he's saying. So let's keep going. Hassan Piker and Brian Thompson, the United

[D]

Healthcare CEO was engaging in a tremendous

[A]

amount of social murder.

[D]

The systematized forms of violence, the, the

[A]

structural violence of poverty, the, the for profit paywalled system of, of health care in this country.

[D]

And the consequences of that are tremendous

[A]

amounts of pain, tremendous amounts of violence, tremendous amounts of deaths. And that was a fascinating story from, for me because Americans are very draconian about don't punish. They're very black and white. It's a justification. Yet you're seeing a justification rationale, pervasive pain that the private health care system had created for the average American.

[D]

I saw so many people immediately understand,

[A]

understand why this death had taken place. Okay, now just pause and let that sink in. This is not a fringe. This is not fringe. That is a Hassan Piker, mainstream progressive commentator on what is arguably the largest progressive platform in America. New York Times. Wow. And he's going, hey, man, social murderer. Actually, I kind of understood. I kind of understood. It's rationale and justification now.

[C]

Hey, Josh, can I interrupt you?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

LP team is freaking out. Are you okay if I get out of here?

[D]

Actually kind of hoping this would happen. This is fantastic.

[C]

I don't want to rush you because I know there's a lot so.

[A]

Man, they said 210. I was.

[C]

Well, I know, but then there's like a little bit of a mic up and I'll insert.

[B]

You, Carlos.

[A]

We love you.

[C]

We love you, Carlos. Love you, Lord.

[B]

Use it today.

[C]

Appreciate it.

[B]

Big way, buddy. Love you, man. You're amazing.

[A]

Amazing. All right. This good. You crush it. Crush. Crush it.

[B]

Love you, Carlos.

[A]

All right then, last one. So then you go out. That's amazing. Then last night, outside of the correspondence dinner, as people were walking out after the assassination attempts, those were the signs people were holding up. Death to tyrants. Death to all of them. Okay, now what people need to understand. Let's go back to Richard Weaver. Ideas have consequences. So listen, Matt, it's a little uncomfortable to talk about, especially in the pastor world that I come from. The thing that you're. The thing that you're never supposed to do is violate. The neither right nor left thing. That's like a. It's an unspoken doctrine that you're not supposed to violate, but honestly is you. You simply have to start noticing reality. Reality is undefeated, defeated. What you're starting to notice, what I would say is that political violence is in some measure, it's a feature, not a bug, of secular progressivism. If you take secular progressive ideals, the foundational tenets of secular progressivism, all the way out to the natural consequences, you are going to end up with political violence. The reason I say that is secular progressivism in particular, it's built on top of a critical theory lens, that is various forms of critical theory. They all come together. Queer theory and anti racist. All the things a critical theory, it views the world through an oppressed, oppressor lens. Everything is viewed through an oppressed oppressor lens. What you have right now at war in our society, there's ideas under. People call it the culture war. The culture war is downstream of spiritual war. It's not one to one, but. But there's correlation. So critical theory sees the world through an oppressed oppressor lens. Christian theology, on the other hand, it sees the world through a right versus wrong lens. What's right? Right was wrong. Okay. Now the reason, let's lead to why that data, data shows what it does. The reason you start seeing political violence take place like that is if I view the world through a right versus wrong lens and I see that you think something different than me, I just think you're wrong. And so I want to reason with you and try to persuade you. Okay, but if I view the world through an oppressed oppressor lens, and I think the people who disagree with me, they're not just wrong, they're actually evil oppressed. That, by the way, is where you get rhetoric like, he's literally Hitler. He's a fascist. By the way, that was what was on the bullet casings in the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Hey, fascist, catch. This is Marxist language. He is an existential threat to democracy. Literally everything and everyone is racist. Okay, well, what that's downstream from is viewing the world through an oppressed oppressor lens. And here's the deal. If you disagree with me and I don't just think you're wrong, I believe you're an evil oppressor. I'm not going to try to persuade you. I begin to feel a moral obligation to stop you. And if you won't stop yourself, then someone or something needs to end you.

[B]

Yes, you lie to yourself and tell yourself I'm actually a hero.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

Someone's got to take one for the team. And I'm willing to stop Hitler.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

This modern day Hitler and the father of lies.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

Who's so good at lies, convinces you that this is actually a. This is actually you doing the most noble thing.

[A]

That's right. That's right.

[C]

Call.

[A]

Call. Good. Evil. Evil. Good.

[B]

Yeah. By taking the life of Charlie Kirk. By taking the. Trying to walk into a. A correspondence dinner and just letting bullets fly.

[A]

That's it. And then on top of that, so it's not just progressivism, remember, it's secular progressivism. So as Christians, we. There's a moral guard. Right rail. If you have a worldview that's built on top of Christian theology, there's moral Guardrails built into our views of opposition. Hey man, you're not allowed to live by the sword. That's Jesus. You shall not murder. So there's these obviously in secular progressivism. If there is no moral lawgiver, well, now I don't have any moral law. This restraining me, taking life and the

[D]

ends justify the means.

[A]

And justify the means. It's sheer Nietzschean will to pass power. So one thing again, that's not the root cause. That's the presenting issue. What Christians need to learn to think better at a worldview level. Hey, man, when you see that stuff, what you're seeing is a clash of worldviews. You're seeing critical theory, and it's logical outcomes, the logical implications of the tenets of the worldview versus Christian theology. Now that's presenting cause. If you want to go root cause. I do think I just want to keep saying the same thing over and over and over over again. Okay, listen, we have a lot of politically aware Christians who listen to live free. And I want to keep saying the same thing. Politics cannot fix what politics did not break and mankind was broken long before any political system was ever put in place. There is one thing and one thing only that can fix what is wrong with mankind. You need Jesus Christ. Christ. Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Amen. So let me just. I'll just put a bow on this. And I love to hear y' all yalls thoughts. Or we may just shut her down because Carlos is going to start preaching. Okay, so if you're a Christian, you're looking at like what's going on in the world. I think what you got to learn to do is, hey, man, let's apply our theology to like, what I'm seeing Bible as lens. One of my favorite passages that is a. Is a sermon on the mount. Matthew 5. When most people think it's just about lust, Jesus does the hey, man, if your hand caused you to sin, cut it off, I caused you to sin, gouge it out. And that is, in my opinion, that is the single most under misunderstood part of the entire ser. Of the Mount. So Jesus looks at. At the dude and he's gone, hey man, you got a lust issue. Now remember he. He begins that little section by saying, if you look lustfully at a woman, you have committed adultery with her in your heart. So he names a body part. This is really important. He names a body part. Then he starts going, hey man, if you're struggling with this lust issue, you need to try to cut off the body part that's causing this issue. You know, if your hand caused you to sin, cut it off. If your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out. And a lot of people think that, hey, man, what he's doing there is. He's going, hey, man, if there's a sin issue in your life, be willing to commit a radical amputation of something in your life to prevent yourself from that sin. And that may be true. Theology is Sermon on the Mount. The entire Sermon on the Mount is, hey, man, the root of every single problem you got is a. Is a heart problem. So here's what. Here's what Jesus is doing. And you start. I'm going to apply it to this. Jesus is going, hey, man, I want you to imagine this is a guy that really just struggles with lust. And every time he lusts, he tries to cut off the part of him that makes him sin. So he looks at something lustfully, maybe pornography, whatever, and he gouges out his eye. And then the next day, he walks down to the city square and he. He realizes he can still purchase a prostitute and he can sin. He can lust with his hands. And he's, oh, I'm going to cut off my hands. And the next day he walks somewhere and he just. He. Let's say he listens to something that incites lust. He's, oh, I'm going to cut off my ear. And maybe the next day, you know, he walks somewhere just to feel something. He's like, man, I can still walk to places that. That enable me to lust. I'm going to cut off my feet. And. And you start imagining this guy who keeps chopping off body parts, trying desperately to cut off the part of him that causes him to lust. And he goes, no matter what I cut off, I still can sin. And Jesus is saying, in order for you to get rid of this issue in your life, you're going to have to cut out your heart. And Jesus is saying, and I can do that for you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if you go back to Ezekiel 36, it's a prophecy about what the coming Messiah will do when he establishes the new covenant. Covenant. And he says, a new heart I will give you.

[B]

Come on.

[A]

And a new spirit I will put within you.

[B]

It's the core, not the branches, I will remove. It's the root, that's it. Right. Not the fruit. Yeah.

[A]

I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And so, man, again, presenting issue. Man, do we need, obviously, to be engaged in political processes? Do we need to see things? Of course we do. Of course we do. But listen, I just want to make you a promise. You need to disabuse yourself of the notion that there is a political solution to what is wrong with this nation. Because what's wrong with the nation is that there's something wrong in the human soul. And without repentance and reformation that lead to revival and a return to Jesus Christ, Christ is the only way out of the chaos. Okay. Any. Any final thoughts? Agree Disagree.

[B]

Additional Comments I I'd like to actually connect it to a thought. Last night's assassination attempt, the other three assassination attempts on President Trump, Charlie Kirk's assassination. I view them as a sanctity of life issue. And here's what I mean by that. It is not. It's the anti pro Charlie Kirk's life. It's the anti pro Donald Trump's life. And so when you show me a stat that says 38% of the progressives see this as a viable option, I'm actually surprised that it's only 38%. When you go back to the unborn, the sheer amount of people that they're willing to click and drag out of their life for convenience. So it is someone who says, well, I've got my whole life ahead of me. I've got a baby in the womb. I'm just going to get rid of this baby because I've got a life to live. How do I remove a human being so that I can who's in the path of what I want? So if 90%, 80, I don't know that stat. But if the overwhelming majority of progressives don't really hold the sanctity of life with the most vulnerable, who is the child in the womb, then why are we surprised that they would hold no sanctity of life for someone that they don't agree with?

[A]

If you kill an innocent child, you definitely kill a guilty adult. That's kind of the logical implications, right?

[B]

And so the root of that is that they don't see another person made in the image of God. They don't see a human being as a human being. And maybe it's because when they look in the mirror, they don't see themselves that way. And so it's like, does that person truly hate Charlie Kirk? Do they truly hate themselves? At the end of the day, what is the ultimate root of that? And we can get really outragey about this really quickly. And I think a lot of people are prone to just get super outragey about this when all they think about it it through is the lens of politics. But if you look through it through the lens of scripture, you can have outrage at what happened last night, but eventually it's got to turn into outreach. Who could have stepped? Who in California? Like, I heard that this young man is in California.

[A]

That's right, yeah.

[B]

This weekend I'm going to be in California. I wonder what part in California. And was he near Sandals Church? Was he near Andy's church at Saddleback Mariner?

[A]

Shut up.

[B]

Was he near. Yeah. Was he near Mariner Up?

[A]

Shut.

[B]

Like, was there a church nearby that could have loved and, you know, could have stepped in downstream into the life of this individual so that if they knew the Lord they had community, they wouldn't see the taking of a life as a. In the lie in their mind that this is a solution.

[A]

That's great, dude.

[B]

And so I think it's not just sanctity of life as in the assassination. The person attempting the assassination doesn't see that. I'm also thinking about the sanctity of the life of the assassinator. Like, how do we value that person and go upstream and say, how do we. How do we love them? That's. That's seeing Muslims not as the enemy, but the prize. That's seeing, like, Hitler killed 6 million Jewish people. Talk about, like, last night was an attempted assassination that failed. Talk about a person who. 6 million Jewish people were killed, innocent people, because of Hitler. But I hear the stories that Hitler's father was a watchmaker and that some Jewish gentleman hired him to make a wa. To fix a clock. And when he fixed it, the Jewish gentleman didn't pay him for it. And they spent a winter. When Hitler was a young man, he spent a winter with his feet cold, his nose cold, his house cold. They ate only cabbage. They were hungry. So when you're going to bed every night hungry and your father's screaming, we're hungry tonight, we're freezing tonight. Because the Jewish people didn't pay us well. Those seeds of sanct, you know, someone. So then. But what if Hitler had had a community of believers? What if something I always think through, like, could there have been someone in the life of these individuals who end up being the harmers when somebody could have been their church community? This guy in California, how far is he from a local church? Who needs to look at that and go, this guy was walking distance to us. Can we at least. It's not somebody's fault because they live, but could we at least ask that question as well?

[A]

Well, that's a good. That's a Good spot to land. Yeah. Chad Balti, would you close us in prayer, sir?

[D]

Yeah. God, as Pastor Josh just said a few moments ago, ideas have consequences. And we just want to recognize right now that your word says that every human is made in your image.

[A]

That's right.

[D]

Every single person, including the people we disagree with, including people like the people we saw in those videos, who have ideas that are completely opposite the ones that we believe your word says. But, God, they're made in your image just as much as we are. And so, God, I pray that you would help us to now put that view out there, that, Lord, in this world. Competing views. You would help us to be Christians, be salt and light. That we would be people who see everybody as made in your image and that we would be people who move from outrage to outreach, that we would want to bring to them a message that there is a God who made the universe and who made them and they're in his image. That even though they've sinned against him and it's cosmic treason, God loves them so much that he sent his only son to die for them. So, God, would you help us to flood the streets with that competing message, Lord, and God, I do pray that it would transform individual hearts and minds. But, God, because of that, it would transform our whole nation, including our political system and our entire world. Give us a heart to reach the one more for you. In your name we pray. Amen.

[A]

Amen. David Nasser, thank you for joining us.

[B]

Love you guys so much.

[D]

Live free.

[C]

Well, hey, LI Free Nation. We just finished this episode with David Nasser today. Thank you so much for joining us. Hey. This Thursday, May 30th, at. At midnight, we're dropping a bonus episode with special guest Tim Barton, and we're going to be hitting American history. How America's founding and early education system were far more explicitly Christian than most people think. What does separation of church and state actually mean? And how slavery has been revised over time and more. Trust me, you don't want to miss it. It's an amazing conversation between Pastor Josh and Tim Barton. We will see you there.

[A]

It.