WAR in IRAN: What Most American Christians DON'T Know! (ft David Nasser) | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Summary

Podcast Summary: "WAR in IRAN: What Most American Christians DON'T Know!"

Podcast: Live Free with Josh Howerton (Lakepointe Church)
Date: March 9, 2026
Guest: David Nassar

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Episode Overview

This episode of Live Free with Josh Howerton explores the unfolding crisis and spiritual revival in Iran from both geopolitical and Christian perspectives. The conversation weaves together analysis of current events, personal testimony, scriptural context, and practical spiritual guidance. Special guest David Nassar—a former Iranian Muslim, now Christian leader—shares both his family’s extraordinary escape from Iran’s Islamic Revolution and his insights on the awakening among the Iranian people.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Personal Backstory: The Revolution’s Human Toll

[69:00–87:45]

• David Nassar’s Testimony:
  • Born in Iran, experienced the 1979 Islamic Revolution as a child.
  • Father was a high-ranking military officer—making family a target for the new regime.
  • Family narrowly escaped execution and fled to Switzerland, ultimately gaining asylum in the U.S.
  • Early years in America marked by social marginalization and emotional struggle.
  • Came to faith in Jesus through kindness and outreach from a local Baptist church, eventually leading to the conversion of his entire family.
  • “Religion broke our lives, broke the back of everything we held certain. And God works all things for the good of his purpose.” (David Nassar, 00:00 & 86:41)

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2. Geopolitical Crisis: Why Iranians Celebrate American Strikes

[88:22–95:33]

• Dissonant Reactions: Many Iranians celebrated the recent U.S. strikes on Iranian leadership, while demonstrations in American cities protested against intervention.
• Explained: The overwhelming sentiment inside Iran is gratitude that oppressive leaders are being confronted; most Iranians deeply resent the regime.
  • “If four bad guys came into your home and held your family hostage and somebody with a sniper gun took out two of the bad guys, I’m not like, ‘hey, why’d you shoot someone in my house?’ I’d be like, ‘thank you so much.’” (David Nassar, 93:21)
• Disconnect Between Regime and People: The regime is Islamic and dictatorial; most ordinary Iranians are secular, non-devout, and deeply weary of religious oppression.
• Political Implications: Nassar argues U.S. engagement is both a necessary intervention for Iranians and a strategic safeguard for Americans—given Iran’s history of supporting terrorism and anti-western activities.

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3. Spiritual Dynamics: The Secret Church and Revival in Iran

[100:25–108:30]

• Vast Renewal: Iran is experiencing the world’s fastest-growing underground church movement—conservative estimates suggest at least 5–10 million believers out of 90 million citizens.
• Secularization Amid Religious Rule: Most young Iranians are tired of enforced religion and are open to the gospel message of redemption.
• "God is Not Limited":
  • “The secret church in Iran… could see this moment be where, if a theocracy becomes a democracy, they no longer have to be the secret church.” (David Nassar, 100:40)
• Vision for Partnership: Nassar imagines Western churches practically partnering, equipping, and resourcing the Iranian church and society for social, spiritual, and practical renewal.

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4. Miraculous Conversion: Jesus Appearing to Muslims

[115:00–121:46]

• Testimonies Abound: Many Iranians (and Muslims in other nations) are coming to faith in Jesus through dreams and visions of “the Man in White.”
• Nassar’s Story: Shares examples of Muslims having prophetic dreams—sometimes being told specifically to expect a visitor who would explain Jesus to them.
• “God’s Doing It With or Without Us”:
  • “Jesus is appearing to people all over the Middle East... If my church won’t do it, I’ll do it.” (David Nassar, 116:19)
  • “Where there’s desperation… the signs and wonders are on full tilt. They’re on all caps.” (David Nassar, 120:28)
• The Global Mission: Nassar stresses that the Iranian revival isn’t just for Iran—it will produce missionaries who’ll reawaken the Western church itself.

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5. The Sabbath and Christian Freedom

[20:33–64:54]

• Theological Discussion:
  • Sabbath as a creation principle, not merely a law.
  • The church’s evolution from Jewish Saturday Sabbath to Christian Sunday worship.
  • Debate: Whether Sabbath-keeping is an Old Covenant requirement or a New Covenant spiritual principle. Four main views discussed: Seventh-day (literal), Christian Sabbatarian (Sunday), Non-Sabbatarian, and Fulfillment-in-Christ.
    • “You are saved by works, just not yours. That’s right, you’re saved by what Christ has done.” (Paul Cunningham, 51:13)
• Practical Tips: Set aside a weekly day for bodily, emotional, and spiritual renewal; tech/screen detox; intentional worship, community meals, and storytelling; planning ahead for church involvement.

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6. Current Events Through a Biblical Lens

[124:30–131:43]

• Eschatological Connection: Speculation about Iran's future role (“Persia” in Ezekiel 38–39) in biblical prophecy.
• Wisdom & Urgency:
  • Nassar: “Short answer is, nobody knows but the one who knows.” (125:34)
  • The focus should remain on evangelism and living out the gospel mission, regardless of the times.
  • “I don’t know the final score, but I read the end of my book. Every nation, every tongue, every tribe. There’ll be Persians there. I can tell you one.” (David Nassar, 127:01)
• Takeaway: The call is for Christians to discern the times, but prioritize sharing Christ above political speculation.

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7. Memorable Quotes & Moments

• "Progressivism will hollow out your religion and wear it like a skin suit." (Josh Howerton, 00:07, repeated 11:48)
• “Even the rocks cry out, boom, boom, boom. Okay. The Bible really happened, y’ all.” (Josh Howerton, 7:06)
• “Religion broke our lives, broke the back of everything we held certain. And God works all things for the good of his purpose.” (David Nassar, 00:00 & 86:41)
• “If God rests, if the creator of the universe rested, who are you not to rest?” (Carlos Arazo, 59:19)
• “Nothing will stop the flow of the power of the Holy Spirit coming out of Iran.” (David Nassar, 114:07)

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Notable Segment Timestamps

• [00:00–02:06]—Opening, announcements, and episode agenda
• [05:08–08:07]—Discovery of biblical earthquake evidence
• [20:33–64:54]—Deep-dive: The Sabbath, theology, and practical personal application
• [65:54–87:45]—David Nassar’s personal story/testimony
• [88:22–95:33]—Why Iranians celebrate American strikes; regime vs. the people
• [100:25–108:30]—Revival in Iran: Secret Church, statistics, and future vision
• [115:00–121:46]—Dreams, visions, and miraculous conversions among Muslims
• [124:30–131:43]—Is this the End Times? Eschatological reflections and priorities

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Tone Notes

• Candid, authentic, and often humorous—bracing transparency about difficult spiritual and political topics.
• Pastoral and passionate—deep desire for revival, church unity, and sound doctrine
• Hopeful and visionary—emphasis on what God is supernaturally doing in Iran and what American Christians can learn

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Final Reflections

This episode calls listeners to a global vision: to see beyond both American politics and Iranian oppression to the unprecedented spiritual awakening happening in Iran. It urges Christians toward active faith, deeper biblical discernment, practical Sabbath rest, and bold prayers for revival in the Middle East and beyond.

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Recommended Next Action:
Download the Lakepointe app for further content, discipleship guides, and updates—or consider practical ways to support and pray for the Iranian church in this historic moment.

Transcript

[David Nassar]

Religion broke our lives, broke the back of everything we held certain. And God works all things for the good of his purpose.

[Josh Howerton]

That's right. Progressivism will hollow out your religion and wear it like a skin suit.

[Paul Cunningham]

The Sabbath was made for man, not made for the Sabbath. In other words, it's for our benefit.

[Carlos Arazo]

A lot of people miss this, but in the Bible, Adam and Eve's first full day of existence was rest, not work. Well, hey, lit free nation, thanks for watching today. Hey, here's what you need to know. This podcast is being recorded right here at Lake Pointe Church in Dallas, Texas. But what God is doing here is not just for Dallas. We believe it is for you no matter where you are. Lake Point Church Online is a real community, real people, real prayer, real discipleship. And so if you've been listening to the live free podcast and thinking, man, I wish I could be a part of something like that, well, you can. Every weekend, we stream live on YouTube, Facebook, and our church online platform. And it's not just a broadcast. We've got live hosts in the chat. We've got prayer. Prayer team's ready to stand with you and clear next steps to help you grow from groups to serving and beyond. You don't have to just consume content. You can belong wherever you are. If you are traveling, deployed or out of state or just checking things out, this is our invitation to you join us live this weekend. We have services Saturday and Sunday. Jump in the chat. Let us know where you're watching from. The link is in the description of this video. We would love to see see you at church online. Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the live free podcast. My name is Carlos Arazo, and I'm here with Pastor Josh Howerton and Pastor Paul Cunningham bullying me for being.

[Paul Cunningham]

Whoa.

[Carlos Arazo]

I'm kidding.

[Josh Howerton]

I'm kidding.

[Paul Cunningham]

That was a misconstrual of what just happened.

[Josh Howerton]

We're doing a rapido episode here. Did I say that right?

[Carlos Arazo]

Yeah, rapido. Rapido.

[Josh Howerton]

Oh, I put the emphasis on the wrong slide.

[Carlos Arazo]

That's correct.

[Josh Howerton]

Okay.

[Carlos Arazo]

That's right.

[Josh Howerton]

I was just telling Carlos, you got to start making fun of American accent and American culture more often.

[Carlos Arazo]

Yeah, I. Maybe. We'll see, man.

[Josh Howerton]

Nothing like a little light racism to, you know, sort of.

[Carlos Arazo]

You're saying I should do reverse racist episode?

[Josh Howerton]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[David Nassar]

Okay.

[Josh Howerton]

Hey, here's what we're going to talk about, cuz. For real. So here's what's. Here's what's going to happen in this episode. The back half of this episode is one of the More fascinating conversations we have literally ever had. So David Nassar, who is an Iranian Christian, um, he's hopping on in just a few minutes and let me just say we, we actually filmed that first. That is one of the more fascinating things we have ever recorded for this podcast. So here's what's going to happen in the next few minutes. In this podcast, we're going to talk what's going on in Iran. We're going to talk about Jesus appearing to Muslims in dreams in mass in the Middle East. We're going to talk about the Iranian war is or is not being potentially a part of end times events. We're going to up, up top here. We're going to hit James Talrico stuff real fast and then we're going to talk Sabbath and we're going to do it rapido.

[Carlos Arazo]

Rapido.

[Josh Howerton]

Oh, rapido.

[Carlos Arazo]

Whatever he said, it's literally the same thing. It's just, you know, a different syllable

[Josh Howerton]

emphasis on the wrong thing.

[Paul Cunningham]

You're just saying it wrong.

[Josh Howerton]

I mean, that's fair.

[Carlos Arazo]

He's like, whatever you said, bro, it's literally the same word.

[David Nassar]

It's okay.

[Josh Howerton]

Is there anything else we need to say before we start talking, Man?

[Carlos Arazo]

I'm sure there's, there's some things.

[Josh Howerton]

If you want to win a hat,

[Carlos Arazo]

comment hats for the giveaway. We love to give away hats and then actually comment.

[Josh Howerton]

Vote against James Talarico, but comment that in the.

[Carlos Arazo]

Go ahead and, and do, do what he said. And then also to find daily Bible reading plan plus the weekly sermon plus an early release of the weekly live free podcast plus the discipleship guide. Download the Lake Point Church app, Text app to 20411 or go to Apple or Google Play store.

[Josh Howerton]

Yeah, let me highlight this. And then I want to talk about, I want to talk about two things. James Salary Hill real quick. So, yeah, if, if people haven't figured this out. So how do they download the app? They text the word app that's right to the number 2041. If you guys haven't figured this out, there are groups on. Actually it's all over the country now that essentially what the app does is it's like the sermon's right there in the app and then right below the sermon is the corresponding live free podcast that deeper dives the sermon. And then right there on the same page or in the same app, we've got an aligned Bible reading plan, one chapter per day. So, like, here's what you can do. If, you know, people are kind of figuring this out, you can Grab that app. Watch the sermon, Deeper dive the podcast. There's your Bible reading plan and then there's the discipleship guide. So you get a bunch of dudes together at Starbucks before work and like, hey man, let's. Let's get into the Word throughout the week. Let's get it and apply it. So do it. Download the app. Text APP2041.

[Carlos Arazo]

By the way, Paul, you said you were going to go to Israel last episode.

[Josh Howerton]

Oh, that's right.

[Carlos Arazo]

Did you. I heard you missed your flight.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yeah, yeah. In fact, I've had a lot of people reach out in the past week. Like, dude, be okay.

[Carlos Arazo]

People ask me as well, hey, chatgpt, where is he?

[Paul Cunningham]

Should have actually put something out on social or something. But yeah, we ended up canceling, like Friday night at 11:45pm Cancel the flight, wake up six hours later and we were dropping bombs and so we had canceled.

[Josh Howerton]

They didn't want to get Tomahawk misses,

[Paul Cunningham]

didn't want to get caught up in all that, in nothing else is. We didn't want to fly all the way over there. And then if it started to happen when we were there. In addition, for safety of having to figure out a way out of the country once all the airports were shut down. So, hey, at some point we will make it our way over there.

[Josh Howerton]

Hey, before we dive in, can I talk about what you would have seen in Israel?

[Paul Cunningham]

Please do.

[Josh Howerton]

All right, this is. This is. Bro, this is going to blow your mind. Makes me a little sad and a little happy. This is going to rearrange your soul. You'll never be the same after you see. So this came out. This was. This is pretty recent. Okay. I'm going to show you an article that just came out from stuff that they discovered in Israel recently that Paul will not get to see this week.

[Paul Cunningham]

Excuse me while I cry. I think I know where you're going. This is really cool.

[Josh Howerton]

Okay. All right, check this out. All right, so this is going to blow your mind. All right, so in Matthew 27:51, there is a little. A little detail most people miss. I'm going to read it to you. It's right after Jesus cries eloi, Eloi, lama sabachtamini on the cross, and he gives up his spirit and he dies. Okay. Then Matthew 27 says this. And people miss this little detail. It says at the moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. People remember that and then they forget this. And then it says the earth shook and the rocks split. Well, that's Very interesting. It's just this little comment about the rock splitting and an earthquake happening. I wonder what in the world. Very interesting, very interesting. So it was actually, I think it's the Daily Mail, a secular British publication. Here's what they found. Some geologists over in Israel recently. And here's what they discovered. I'm going to read this. A team of geologists examined the sediment layers, that's rock formations near the Dead Sea. That's relatively close to Golgotha, about 25 miles from where many scholars believe the crucifixion took place. Their analysis revealed signs of at least two significant earthquakes affecting the region. That's interesting. I wonder when those earthquakes might have happened. Further in the article, disturbances in the sediment pointed to a major quake around 31 BC. Go ahead and throw that next, the first picture up. So this is a little seismological picture of the sediment, the rock formations there. Disturbances in the sediment, which you're seeing right there, pointed to a major quake around 31 BC and a smaller seismic event sometime between 26 and 36 AD. Now, wait just a second. When did the crucifixion happen? And when does Matthew 27 record an earthquake and rock splitting happening? Let me read a little farther. Disturbances and sediment again, pointed to a Quaker on 31 BC, 26 to 36 AD, which is right around the window, actually in the middle of the window, when Jesus Christ was crucified sometime around 33 AD, which led to this title of the article for the Daily Mail. Scientists confirm biblical earthquakes that shook the earth during Jesus crucifixion. And I would just like to say this, they discovered that while looking at the geology of the region, ladies and gentlemen, even the rocks cry out, boom, boom, boom. Okay, The Bible really happened, y'.

[David Nassar]

All.

[Josh Howerton]

Real. Jesus died on a real cross. And if you give him your life, he can really change it forever.

[David Nassar]

Amen.

[Carlos Arazo]

Amen.

[Josh Howerton]

What am I going to talk about next? Calorico? Let's do this and then let's hit Sabbath. So we had somebody explain what happened real quick while I get my notes. Talarico. What happened with Talarico this week?

[Carlos Arazo]

Chad Gpasy, what happened?

[Paul Cunningham]

Yeah, so we had a Senate primary vote that happened on Tuesday between. You had different Republicans running different Democrats. And so you had two people. One was. Her name was Crockett. She's in the House of Representatives. And then you have Talarigo as representative from Texas and ran off in the Senate. And at first, in the last couple of weeks, it looked like Crockett was Ahead. But then he came out and actually won pretty hand. Handily. Pretty handily. And so big thing of his is basically he tries to kind of come to the ploy of a mop being a moderate. He'll throughout Bible verses say he's a Christian, claims to be a minister, and so handily won the vote to win not the. To be the senator, but to be now in the Senate race that will happen and culminate in November.

[Josh Howerton]

That's right. So. And some people are like, oh, dude, with the groundswell of support for this guy, he could flip Texas blue. That kind of thing. Now, I want to show you to

[Carlos Arazo]

correct just to be sure. He is not an ordained pastor. He is a Presbyterian seminarian studying in the Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

[Josh Howerton]

To become a minister, according to become a minister. But he preaches at his quote unquote church. I'm going to get to that in a second. Which is. I'll get to that in a second. Okay, so it's a dude claiming to be a Christian minister that's running for office here. Now when I do what I'm getting ready to do, this dude's bad news. I'll just say, like, this guy is like legit real bad news. When I do this, some people are going to be like, hey, Josh, you're getting political. Just say a few things real quick and, and talk about this. We're going to talk theological. We're not going to talk primarily political. There's a few reasons I want to do this just really fast. First of all, did you guys know this? Evangelical Christians are either one of or the least active voters in America?

[Carlos Arazo]

Yes.

[Josh Howerton]

So in recent elections. I read this this week. Heads up for every Christian listening. This is bad. 32% of evangelicals vote in elections. Only 32%.

[Paul Cunningham]

You know who's most active?

[Josh Howerton]

Who?

[Paul Cunningham]

Liberal progressives.

[Josh Howerton]

Is it? Yeah, that's right.

[Paul Cunningham]

Liberal progressives who claim to be Christians are the most active because there's a

[Josh Howerton]

whole thing about it. We do a whole podcast on that. Because when, you know, when you lose a religion in society, politics becomes a religion. So that's what that happens. Okay, so first of all, you have that number two. I just want to point this out. People are like, you shouldn't talk about this. It's getting political. Well, I just want to point this out. Do you know who's not staying out of politics? Satan's not like all throughout the Bible. What Satan does is he targets thrones and dominions. Like he's overtly political. So I just want to Point out, if Christians, quote, unquote, stay out of politics, all we're doing is ceding all that ground to Satan and then handing our children and our grandchildren a cultural inheritance that's shaped by godlessness instead of the people of God. So I just want to. So here's why we're doing this.

[Carlos Arazo]

And by the way, you know who else doesn't stay out of politics?

[Josh Howerton]

Who?

[Carlos Arazo]

In the Bible. God doesn't stay out of politics in the Bible.

[David Nassar]

Boom.

[Carlos Arazo]

Like, literally all throughout your Bible, God gets involved in every aspect of politics. Literally almost in every book of the Bible.

[Josh Howerton]

So there it is. Okay, so I'm just gonna rifle through because I'm watching this dude and I. You know, it's like, it's families like mine that are getting, like, hoodwinked by this dude. It's like, white, maybe a little more educated. Families that are like, well, he sounds. Cause he uses Bible and Christian and theological language.

[Paul Cunningham]

Y.

[Josh Howerton]

People just see him on TV and be like, oh, good, finally a Christian pastor running for office.

[Paul Cunningham]

It's an intentional ploy. He's trying to act like a moderate. Hey, I love Jesus too, but I just happen to vote on a different side. It's very intentional.

[Josh Howerton]

Okay.

[Paul Cunningham]

Very intentional.

[Josh Howerton]

So let's rip the. We've done two episodes on this guy, so I'm not going to belabor this, but I just want to keep ripping the mask off. So, like, so you know who this dude is. So I'm about to. We're going to waterboard you again. So I'm going to waterboard you with James Talarico stuff so people understand who this guy is. Because here's what this guy is in the biblical category, this guy is a false prophet and a false teacher that just so happens to also be in politics. And I'm very confident in that interpretation of events. So we're going to rifle through these real quick. Trinity. We're going to rapid fire these. So, number one, this is his quote unquote church, St. Andrews Presbyterian Church. You got the LGBT flag, by the way, draped around a cross, like visual blasphemy. Number two, we're just going to do some screenshots. These are, like, actual statements from this dude, James Talarico. Our trans community needs abortions, too. I don't even know what that means. Okay. I got questions that I don't want answers to, actually. Let's go to the next one. We got the next one. For me, prophetic voices like Jesus have helped me reckon with my own whiteness. This is so weird, dude. My Own masculinity, my own certainty. It's a never ending process. It's a painful process. Next one. Let's keep going. James Tallarico. Here we go. Modern science obviously recognize. He said this before Congress. Modern science obviously recognizes there are many more than two biological sexes. In fact, there are six, obviously. Yes, obviously. Okay, I got questions. I don't want answers. Let's keep going. This next one, this is a. This guy, this is him giving a sermon. So he's preaching at his St. Andrews Presbyterian, quote, unquote, church, synagogue of Satan. It's a speech, first of all, it's a sermon about why God supports abortion. We did a whole episode on this. You guys can go watch it. It'll be in the discipleship guide. But before he starts, he gave a disclaimer about how he knows that trans people need abortions too. So please don't take his use of the word woman as exhaustive. Okay, again, I got questions. I do not want answers. This next one, this is a letter that he wrote. I think he submitted this. I can't remember where he submitted it, but basically he was advocating. He is. He was advocating. He wanted abortion clinics installed in every federal courthouse and every national park so that they would be the reason. Basically, he's like a very radical abortion dude and he wanted to put government funded abortion outside of the reach of state legislation. So this is what he was trying to do. So you got this. Let's keep going. Next quote. James Talarico. Trans children are God's children, made in God's own image. There's nothing wrong with them, nothing at all. They are perfect. They are beautiful. They are sacred. Let's keep going. This is the quote, unquote moderate Christian minister. I just want to point this out. James Talarico, again, tweets. Grief can be a fertile soil for creativity in action. Those of us in this moment have a great mission to do something that has never been done in human history. Create a true democracy, multiracial, multi gender, multicultural. And then notice this language he uses. May we in our grief forge this new covenant. Covenant. So notice what he's doing is he's using overtly theological language to sort of cloak his extreme progressivism. This is a whole podcast episode. We'll actually do this later. Progressivism will hollow out your religion and wear it like a skin suit. That's what this dude does. All right, let's keep going. Next one. There's a lot of these. James Talarico. If one CIS girl loses a game. So it's Basically, this was about getting dudes out of women's sports. Then the bill is worth it. I guess I'm just. I'm gonna, by the way, read a cuss word here in a second. So you can. Whatever. I guess we have a different moral yardstick because I say if one trans child dies to protect someone else's D trophy, then the bill is grotesque. Go to the next one. We're going to rifle through these. He literally was asked by Ezra Klein for the. In a New York Times interview what he believed about other religions. And he says other religions of love point to the same truth as Christianity. So he's a universalist. You know, it's just run of the mill universalist. Go to the next one is. This is where he's. He does a whole quote unquote sermon to the four people that are present that Jesus was a radical feminist. Go to the next one. Yeah. Texas Democrat candidate James Talarico. Prison is violence. And then listen to this quote, bro. It's hard to imagine a world without prisons. Just because it's hard to imagine doesn't mean you shouldn't. And then look at it. You can see the little subtitles down there. He's at. Yes, prison is violence. So this was like the whole defund the police. We want. No. Now I'm going to play you two short clips of him and then I want to read a Bible verse. All I'm going to do is play two short clips. Clips and read a Bible verse number one. Here we go. In the Gospel of Thomas, which was later omitted from the Bible. I'm sorry, so the Gospel of Thomas is an apocryphal. It's like a heretical. What's your little thing on the Gospel? Yeah.

[Paul Cunningham]

The Gospel of Thomas was written 200 years after the time of Jesus. It was never in the Bible. Everybody knew it was fake. The person who wrote it basically said, I'm Thomas, but everyone knew it wasn't whatsoever.

[David Nassar]

Yeah.

[Josh Howerton]

So it's a forged. Yeah.

[Paul Cunningham]

It was never in the Bible to admit something. Meaning it had to be in there. It was never actually in there.

[Josh Howerton]

All right. Yeah. Barry Salarigo, quote, unquote, preaching from it. Let's keep going. By church officials. The Gospel of Thomas quotes Jesus as saying, when you make the male and female one in the same, when the male is not male, when the female

[Paul Cunningham]

is not female, then you will enter

[Josh Howerton]

the kingdom of God. So first of all, Paul and I were talking about this off air. First of all, he's misquoting the Gospel

[Paul Cunningham]

of Thomas, he's intentionally twisting it. Like, when the heretic would say, you misquoted me, you can tell someone's off.

[Josh Howerton]

It's like the third circle of heretic hell is you're like. Even the heretics are like, bro, you're really out there. So you got this. So you got this. And he's misquoting it to, like, essentially do queer theory and trans ideology that men are women and women are men and women. And then last one. This is a. This is, like, mind blowing. This is testifying, I think, before Congress. Go for it. Senate is both masculine and feminine and everything in between.

[David Nassar]

God is non binary.

[Josh Howerton]

Whoopsie daisy. God is non binary. Again, he's using this to advocate for queer theory and transgender ideology. So let me just say this about this guy. And some people are like, hey, man, you guys are being really hard on this guy. Hey, man, like, we're not supposed to take it light on people who are, like, actively leading people to hell. So this guy is like, if the coexist bumper sticker was a person is what this guy is. So let me just remind you, who in the Bible is the one that distorts the word of God to try to get people to do godless things? Satan. And just because somebody's got a verse doesn't mean they're right. So if you're a Christian and you're watching this, you've got to develop the discernment to go, hey, man, is this somebody that's actually teaching the word of God? God? Or is this somebody that's actually twisting the word of God to advance very, very godless things? What you're seeing right there is somebody that's dressing up as a minister of Christ to advanced antichrist teachings. So I will simply read a Bible verse. This is from 2 Corinthians 11. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan himself disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds. Watch out. Watch out for this dude. Watch out.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yeah, I love how he's already fired back and his team has of. Yo, they're already trying to paint me as an extremist. No, bro, we're just retweeting you.

[Josh Howerton]

Like, we're just reading your stuff.

[Paul Cunningham]

All people are doing is going back to your Twitter profile and retweeting what you've already said and posting videos of what you've already said, and I think that goes back to it is like, hey, if you're claiming to be a modern. And to me, it's almost more offensive that he tries to put Jesus on top of this. Like, hey, if this is what you believe, I vehemently disagree. But at least if you want to say, like, the fact that you're trying to slap Jesus onto this makes it way more offensive. And to your point, we gotta make sure Christians who are caught in the middle don't begin just immediately following him into a really, really bad path that could lead to some bad consequences for our society.

[Josh Howerton]

There you go.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yep.

[Josh Howerton]

We've got two react episodes to some of the stuff he's done. Those are gonna be in the discipleship guide. They can get that.

[Paul Cunningham]

How?

[Carlos Arazo]

They can download the Lakepoint app and go to text the word app to 20411 and then you'll find it there.

[Josh Howerton]

The discipleship guide.

[Carlos Arazo]

That's right.

[Josh Howerton]

Okay, that's great. That's right.

[Carlos Arazo]

It's under every episode. So you check out the YouTube video on the Lakepoint app. And then underneath, just scroll down. You should find it there.

[Josh Howerton]

That's great. Dude, what are we talking about next?

[Carlos Arazo]

Luke chapter six.

[Josh Howerton]

We got to do this.

[Carlos Arazo]

Hey, there you go.

[Josh Howerton]

Hey, man, when I get it right,

[Carlos Arazo]

I love it, man.

[Josh Howerton]

What are we talking about? Wait, the passage.

[Carlos Arazo]

Roll your R one more time. Your R. That's great.

[David Nassar]

That's good.

[Carlos Arazo]

Finish the word, though.

[Josh Howerton]

Finish the word.

[Carlos Arazo]

There you go.

[David Nassar]

Did I do it right? Yeah, that's good.

[Josh Howerton]

All right, man.

[Paul Cunningham]

That's good.

[Josh Howerton]

Oh, Luke chapter six.

[Carlos Arazo]

That's right.

[Josh Howerton]

So Sabbath. You gotta ask me the thing.

[Carlos Arazo]

Oh, Pastor Josh, I have a question for you.

[Josh Howerton]

I will.

[Carlos Arazo]

I was waiting for you to say that. What did it make to the sermon?

[Josh Howerton]

Great, dude. I had a blast preaching the sermon. So this week we did Luke chapter six six one through eleven. We're doing investigating Jesus. And it was interesting because we kind of dovetailed, did Jesus come to God or did Constantine make it up? But then it was funny, man, because the passage we preached was primarily about Sabbath and legalism is really interesting. So, dude, there's. Honestly, there's so much in this passage. Like every scripture has layers. There's, you know, it's like there's layers to this. This one is like layer upon layer upon. Like you could do a sermon series from Luke 6:1 11. So let me do a couple things real quick. They're pretty cool. And then you're gonna talk about Sabbatarian views. This is actually. People don't know. There's actually a pretty significant debate in among Christians about theological views around Sabbath. So I'm gonna have chat. G Palti talk about that here in a second. Let me just riff some of this stuff real quick. So first of all, this is one of the really cool passages that we actually, like, know where it happened. And not to brag. I've been there.

[Carlos Arazo]

You've been there.

[Josh Howerton]

I was gonna ask you and Paul was it. Paul would have been there. I would have It' I've ever experienced in my whole life. Everyone who's been there feels like their life has changed forever and they wish that they had never experienced any of their life before having gone. And it's just. It's nirvana after you've been. But Paul has not been. And I've been. Yeah, yeah.

[Carlos Arazo]

Well, I've never been either.

[David Nassar]

So.

[Josh Howerton]

I'm joking.

[David Nassar]

I'm joking.

[Josh Howerton]

We're all going to go sometime. Hey, someday we should do a live free either journey of Paul or Israel trip. And just. We should. We'll do a live free trip would be amazing.

[Paul Cunningham]

Sign me up.

[Carlos Arazo]

I'm in.

[Josh Howerton]

I think it'd be awesome. We'll figure it out. Okay, so this is one. We actually know where it is. It's pretty cool. So first of all, this. So this account, what happens here is recorded in multiple gospels. So the geographic location is not recorded in Luke, but it is recorded in Mark. Okay, so first of all, we should throw the big temple. Throw the big one up. So first of all, this event happened in Capernaum. And this is going to be important here in a second. This is really cool. So if you go to Capernaum, this is a big Jewish temple synagogue that's in Capernaum. That's not from the time of Jesus. They constructed this really nice one on top of the one that was from the time of Jesus. And I'm getting ready to have a really cool moment here in a second. So just stick with me. All right, so this is the one that's built on top of the actual one. But if you go. I think it's on the west side of this thing. I've got a group picture on this thing. And you look over the wall, you see on the left, you can see that wall. If you look over that wall and down. Go to that next one. They excavated this and that actually is the original synagogue in Capernaum. So I just like, I took that picture. Let this sink in for a second. You are staring at the ruins of the synagogue that the book of Mark specifically says Jesus Christ stood in and taught the Bible in. Just like Paul, you're going to do this. You guys are going to go to Israel. You're going to stand in multiple synagogues and know for sure. Jesus Christ, the son of God, stood right here and that right there. Jesus Christ stood right there and taught in a synagogue. Now here's what's legit. Awesome. So one of the gospels. Let me see if we know which one I don't get out of my notes. One of the gospels, it talks about how you remember the story of the paralytic dude that gets lowered through the ceiling. So one of the gospels mentions that happened at Peter's mom's house. And it specifically mentions that they were in Capernaum and they walked out of the temple over there. And then it happened. Okay, so dude, here's what's legit. A few years ago, they start excavating real near that spot and they uncover this, go to that little, this little thing. They uncover this. It's this little octagonal, very normal home, you know, from the first century when Jesus was alive. And as they're excavating it, they start noticing, hey, this is real weird. There's this graffiti all over this house. And you can see it. Like you're gonna stand right there and you can see it and you start looking and it says in Koine, Greek, Petra, Peter, like all over the thing. Peter, Peter, like all over the thing. And then there's some inscriptions. Our guy pointed out that it says like something about Jesus Christ. You can see it. Well, you put all the context clues together. Okay, it says they were in Capernaum. It says that Jesus walked out of the. They walked out of the synagogue, they went over to Peter's mom's house, they lowered the paralytic guys. That is Peter's mother in law's house that they have uncovered. That is the spot where those roof wreckers pull the thing off the roof and lower the dude through the hole in the roof. It happened right there. And all of this. So this whole Luke thing where they're having this debate about the Sabbath happened All right here.

[David Nassar]

Wow.

[Josh Howerton]

All right, here. So again, I just want to keep pointing this out. Parents, I want to strongly encourage you to stop talking about Bible stories and talk about Bible events, because the Bible really happened. The real Jesus died on a real cross for the real you. And if you give him your life, he can really change it forever. So all this stuff happened right there. Now I gotta shorten this because we got to do this.

[Carlos Arazo]

That's right. But I was gonna ask you, did you like it going? Did you like going there?

[Josh Howerton]

It's the best thing that's ever happened to me. And I feel sorry for anybody that's never been. They have not actually even lived.

[Carlos Arazo]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Howerton]

Wow.

[Paul Cunningham]

Especially people looking forward to 24 hours of hopping on a plane. Looking forward to last second. Had to cancel, though. Those people were the worst. Just the worst.

[Carlos Arazo]

Okay, yeah, yeah, Keep going, keep going.

[Josh Howerton]

All right, let me do a couple. So what happens in this passage is Jesus and his disciples, they're walking through a grain field. They start pulling grains of wheat off of stalks, rolling them in their fingers and eating them. The Pharisees walk up, basically, here's the theological lay of the land on these 11 verses. What's happening here is the war is about legalism, but the battlefield is the Sabbath. That's what's going on in this passage. It's why there's layers. The war is about legalism, the battlefield is about the Sabbath. So what happened is the Pharisees come up. What legalists always do is they take the rules and they add rules to the rules. And then they make sure that you obey their rules, that they added to the rules. And if you won't obey their rules, they added to the rules, then you suck. So what they did is they took. The Pharisees took the Old Testament command, no work on the Sabbath. They added rules to the rules. They created a 39 point checklist about what it means not to work. And there's some hilarious stuff in there, by the way. These are true stories. Came across these this week. So one of their rules was you couldn't travel over a mile on the Sabbath except over water. And that's because if you're, you know, taking a leisurely time and you're a little John boat and you, you know, the current takes you over a mile. You didn't do any work, right?

[David Nassar]

Yeah.

[Josh Howerton]

So, bro, there's like, there's literally orthodox Jewish people who on Saturday, that's the Jewish Sabbath, they'll take a bottle of water and put it under the driver's seat in their car loophole. Seriously, this is not. This is a real thing. This is a real thing.

[Carlos Arazo]

Hilarious.

[Josh Howerton]

So it's like you imagine like God's like, hey, bro, you better not. And you're like, well, I got a dasani under here.

[Carlos Arazo]

Oh, there's water underneath. Oh, you're good, you're good.

[Josh Howerton]

Now here's another one. This is. Now this did make it in the sermon, but it's too good not to tell. I've got a pastor friend. And when you go, you'll see have you been. You haven't been to Israel, have you? That's right. Oh, my God. When you go on Saturday?

[Carlos Arazo]

I'm sorry, I haven't been either, so it's okay. We'll go together.

[Josh Howerton]

So when you go on Saturday, they have Shabbat elevators. I love this story so much. So, on the Shabbat elevators, because one of the rules they added to the rules was you're not allowed to make a fire on a Sabbath. Well, then they modernize it. Like, well, if you push a button and you start an electrical current, that's the 21st century version of starting a fire. So we got to have a way to do the elevator, but we can't have you press a button. So on the Shabbat elevators, they stop on every floor. So I got a pastor buddy who's there on a Sabbath, and he walks in and he starts noticing there's all these people in the elevator. And he's like, he's stopping on every floor. And he goes, hey, man, what's wrong with this elevator? And they go, this is a Shabbat elevator. And he goes, well, is Shabbat Hebrew for slope? You know, like, no, no, no. And they explain the whole rule thing. You know how we can't press a button? And he goes, well, dagum. Do you guys got a gentile elevator? And they're like, actually, yes. All you gotta do is just cross the hall and the gentile elevator's over there. You can go over there and push a button if you want to. So he walks across the hall, gets to the gentile elevator, presses a button. He looks behind him, all of them followed him into the gentile elevator, and they go, will you press 7 for us again?

[Paul Cunningham]

Loopholes.

[Josh Howerton]

Loopholes, yeah. All right, this is what's going on. This is what's going on here. So a couple things about this passage that are interesting. So, first of all, the whole thing's about the Sabbath, the command. Fourth Commandment. Okay. By the way, if you want to remember Fourth commandment. Here's how you remember it. Ten commandments, hand motions, four fingers. How many Sundays are there in a month? Four. Fourth commandment.

[Carlos Arazo]

I was just checking on my mind if that if every single month.

[Josh Howerton]

Well, no, no,

[Carlos Arazo]

my brain just does it.

[David Nassar]

I don't know.

[Paul Cunningham]

Don't be like a fish.

[Josh Howerton]

Okay, okay, okay. Fact checker. Let' people. Okay, so. So in the Old Testament, first of all, Sabbath breaking carried a Death penalty. So there's actually a time in the Old Testament where a dude was picking up sticks on a Sabbath and they executed him. And by the way, we do not apologize for the Bible. The Lord is always just so. I don't understand all the circumstances, but I do understand the principle. And one of the principles is man. When you violate God's principle, work for seven, rest for one, you're killing yourself. This is how God designed the world. In fact, this is super interesting. So have you ever. This is the kind of thing nobody ever asks themselves. If you're listening, ask yourself the question, huh? Why do we got a seven day work week? That's weird. Where did that come from? It came from the Bible, Genesis. It came from the Bible. So there have been societies, there have been three societies in human history that tried to go, it's really stupid. We got a seven day work week. Why are we doing this? They tried to do it. They tried to do a 10 day work week in the French Revolution. They tried to do, I think it was also a 10 day work week in the Soviet Revolution. And then the ancient Roman Empire started going, it's stupid to have a seven day work week. Let's change this. And they tried it in all three of them. It completely failed. Like society fell totally apart. Why? Because when you break God's principles, you're killing yourself. You know when you go against the grain of the universe, you're going to get splinters. So just pause and think about this. It's kind of blow your mind. How many nations in the world today, and we know most nations are not explicitly Christian. How many nations in the world today have anything other than a seven day work week?

[Paul Cunningham]

I'm going to say none.

[Josh Howerton]

None, None, None. God's word is true. I'll also say this. Dang, there's so much I want to get here. I'll also say this. The seventh day there was a study they did. Go ahead and throw that Wikipedia thing up. Wikipedia, everybody knows, is perfect source of information. I can't see that. Can you see that? I can't see that here. I'll just read it off of there. There it is. Okay, so this is fascinating. They actually did a study. So the Seventh Day Adventists. We don't need to get into who this. There's some weird stuff about Seventh Day Adventists, but their big deal. They care about the Sabbath.

[David Nassar]

Yes, they do.

[Josh Howerton]

Big deal about the Sabbath. They actually did this study like over a long period of time about seventh day evidence. You look right down there, that on what their study showed was that Seventh Day Adventist men lived an average of 6.2 years longer than the rest of the population. So it's just like, dude, it's just showing like, man, there's actually, it's hardwired into your biology. Work hard for six days, rest for one. So then you start going, well, how do we get where we're at in America? When we started our country, you know, our country was like, hey, there was a very small contingency of Jewish people in America around the founding. Most were Christians. So the Jewish Sabbath was obviously Saturday. The Christian Sabbath was Sunday. Paul, can you tell them real quick why Christians worship on Sunday, not Saturday?

[Paul Cunningham]

Yeah, big thing is because that's the day Jesus rose from the grave. So literally there's people in the early church, I think around 150. Justin Martyr specifically says we do this on the day of the sun because Jesus rose on that day.

[Josh Howerton]

Interesting.

[Paul Cunningham]

I don't know, 150, about 150 AD

[Josh Howerton]

and didn't Constantine around then, didn't he like officially kind of go, hey, Sunday's the Sabbath.

[Paul Cunningham]

I want to say around 329. He specifically basically made Sunday to be a day of rest. He made it to be a day of rest for the Empire. I think it was 329 around there.

[Josh Howerton]

So if you're wrong, everything's ruined.

[Carlos Arazo]

I know, I'm a question Chachi boss

[Josh Howerton]

to you right now, everything's ruined.

[Carlos Arazo]

That's okay.

[Josh Howerton]

But well, what happened when we found

[Paul Cunningham]

out our country, if he would have

[Carlos Arazo]

gone to Israel, he would have known it.

[Josh Howerton]

Yeah, if you'd been to Israel, you would know in our country. So when we're found in the country, they were like, well hey man, the Jewish Sabbath is Saturday and the Christian Sabbath is Sunday. Which one are we going to take? And like Americans, we were like, we'll take both.

[Paul Cunningham]

I like it.

[Josh Howerton]

That's what we did. Seriously, that's how we got. We're actually, if I understand correctly, we're one of the few countries who have a two day weekend. And that's how we got that. Okay, now God bless America. God bless America. Come on man. Amen. One thing I do want to say last thing and then Paul, I want you to talk about Sabbatarian views because a lot of people don't know. There's actually fairly significant debate around hey, is Sabbath just an old covenant thing or is it a new covenant thing? Hey, should it be on Saturday or should it be Sunday or does the day matter? Or there's some Passages in Hebrews that are like, actually, Jesus is your Sabbath rest. What the heck does that mean? So you're gonna do your little chatgpt thing here in a second. One thing I like about this passage, which is how we started getting there, is the original question was, did Jesus claim to be God or did Constantine make it up? Well, in this passage, Jesus says, he gets in here, and, bro, it's one of these, like, if you can. Which camera am I looking at? All right, so there's a bunch of stuff. Oh, I want you to talk about the Messianic secret here in a second. Can you do that? Yeah.

[Paul Cunningham]

Okay. Yeah.

[Josh Howerton]

So there's a bunch of stuff in. Especially the Gospel of Mark. It's in all of them, but especially Gospel of Mark where, like, it's these moments where, if you could see me on camera, Jesus will do these things. And it's almost like a. He's like, winking at you. Like, it's like, I'm your huckleberry. Do you know what it is?

[Carlos Arazo]

100% I do.

[David Nassar]

Wait. Yeah.

[Josh Howerton]

There you go. Okay.

[David Nassar]

I got you, bro.

[Josh Howerton]

That's good.

[Carlos Arazo]

Still waiting on Goodwill a year in into the podcast.

[Josh Howerton]

What about this? What movie is this from? How do you like them apples?

[Carlos Arazo]

I don't know. That one I'm about to watch.

[Josh Howerton]

We're going to get there, and then we're going to be going, how you like them apples? Okay, so wait, where was I? Oh, okay. Yeah, he does. Jesus does this stuff where it's like, he'll just say something to be like, wink at you. I'm your huckleberry. Towards his divinity and his identity as a Messiah. Now, Paul's going to answer this question here a second. In a couple of the Gospels, he intentionally keeps his identity as God and as Messiah a quote, unquote, secret. And theologians refer to it as, quote, the messianic secret. You're going to answer the question why he does that here in a second. But this passage is one of them. So he's talking to these Pharisees, and he literally says, this is. Bro, this is amazing. He goes, I'm the Lord of the Sabbath. And it's like a. He just winks. And what he's saying is he's going, you know that fourth commandment that was written by the finger of God? I wrote that. Yeah. And if I wrote it, I get to interpret it. Wow. And it's this little. Like, it's a little. It's a little wink. I'm. I'm God. Okay, I'll give You one of my other very favorite Little, little. I hate the. I hate when people say it was a God wink. It's just very feminine to me. But, but this is kind of like a, one of those kind of thing. The other one, you remember that passage in John 9 where Jesus spits on the ground and makes mud and sticks it on the guy? I always wondered, what the heck. It's gross, bro. He spits on ground, makes mud and rubs spit mud in some dudes eye. Why'd he do that? Well, if you go back to the book of Genesis, how did God create the first eyes that were ever made the dust of the ground out of the dust of the ground? And so then that dude is blind and they're all questioning who Jesus is. I wonder if he's. Is he the Messiah? Is he God? And it's like Jesus with Genesis in mind, he spits on the ground, makes some dust of the ground, some dirt, puts it on the dude's eyes, and it's like he's saying, I've done this before. I've done this before, bro. It's like it's his. I'm him. Yeah, I'm him. So this passage is one of the clear moments where it's like, bro, he's, it's right. He's saying he's God. Now will you answer the question, Paul? Why is it. Because it confuses some people. Why does Jesus sometimes, when people figure it out, he's like, don't tell anybody. Yeah, don't tell anybody. And sometimes he'll do stuff like this where he alludes to his divinity without outright saying it, even though he does outright say it a couple times. So messianic secret, explain it real quick.

[Paul Cunningham]

Well then also like when he casts out demons, they'll begin saying who he is and he'll shut him down fast. Which, if it were today, you think it would be the opposite. Like he would want as much publicity as possible. As you said, you see this especially in the book of Mark and especially in the first half of the Book of Mark. Three big reasons why. One was to avoid political misunderstandings. So at that time, Jewish people expected the Messiah to be a political liberator, specifically liberating them from Rome. And Jesus, that is not his mission. That is not his mission. His mission is to do something very different, which is to die on a cross, atoning for the sins of the world and then rising from the grave. Number two, he wants to control the timeline of his mission. So Jesus knows if he just comes out swinging and Says, I'm the Messiah. I'm the Son of God. That's going to cause a confrontation real quick. In fact, if you look towards the end, when the actual trial begins happening, he no longer hides it. He says, you're going to see the Son of man coming on the clouds. He lets it be known because at that point, it's time.

[Josh Howerton]

By the way, whenever Jesus calls himself the Son of Man, some people mistakenly think, oh, see, he's saying he's just a man. No, no, he's using a messianic title from Daniel, chapter seven. That's right, that prophesies about the coming divine Messiah. And he's. It's his. It's another, I'm him.

[Paul Cunningham]

And so you actually, you'll see, throughout the Gospels, he'll often say, my time has not yet come. And the time he's referring to is the crucifixion. And so he plays his hand too much at first, that'll cause a confrontation, and his mission on earth was not done. But the third big thing that I think is actually the biggest thing, especially in the Book of Mark, is to reveal that you cannot understand his identity apart from the cross. You can't. It's really interesting. In the first half of Mark, he's mainly doing miracles. He's healing, he's casting out demons. And then every time someone wants to go say something, he's like, no, no, no, no. And that's because he doesn't want to be simply known as a wonder working messiah or as a miracle worker, as only a messiah of power. But what's interesting is then in the middle of the Book of Mark, literally at the hinge part, is where Peter confesses him as the Messiah. And Jesus says, you're right. And then immediately after that, it says this. And he begins. Began to teach that the Son of man, that the Messiah must suffer.

[Josh Howerton]

I had forgotten.

[Paul Cunningham]

And die. And so all of a sudden it switches and it begins talking a lot about his suffering. And then what's interesting is there's only one human being in the Book of Mark who accurately sees and knows that he is the Son of God. Know who it was?

[Josh Howerton]

Hang on, dude, hang on.

[Carlos Arazo]

Demons?

[Paul Cunningham]

No, a human being. A human being who knew he was the Son of God.

[Josh Howerton]

Wait, wait, don't. Don't say it yet.

[Carlos Arazo]

In the Book of Mark.

[Paul Cunningham]

In the Book of Mark,

[Josh Howerton]

dude, I got nothing.

[Paul Cunningham]

At the very end, the centurion. And it's after he saw how he died.

[Josh Howerton]

Truly, this was. This man was the Son of God.

[Paul Cunningham]

And so the idea is you cannot understand Jesus's identity and his mission apart from what he did on the cross. That's the big idea. So again, it was to basically avoid political misunderstandings. It was to avoid the. Basically the timing of his mission moving up too soon. And then finally, it was the idea of, hey, if you're going to know me as the Messiah, you have to know me as the suffering servant Messiah who died on the cross for you.

[Josh Howerton]

Okay, so there's your Messianic secret. Now, what you got in this passage? And then I want you to talk about Sabbatarian views. And then let's finish giving some practical pointers on how to practice the Sabbath. And then we're going to go to Nasser. So let's do this as quick as we can here. So if you. The thing about this passage, what triggers everything is these guys are like, hey, man, you're breaking the extra rules we made when y' all are walking out. He was breaking four. I came across this in study this week. He was breaking four of their rules. One, they had a rule against reaping. Two, they had a rule against threshing. And by the way, I didn't know this when I first read the passage. Like, brother, not threshing anything. It says they're rolling it through their fingers. But they had a thing where it was like, I guess it was agriculturally cultivated grass. If you were walking on it, then that was a violation of their understanding of a threshing. I know, it's stupid. And then number three, they had a rule against winnowing, which would have been taking the things. And then number four, rule against preparing any food. So Jesus guys are breaking their four rules. They added to the rules, and it triggers this whole thing. Now, I'll tell you how I think about Sabbath, and then I want you to talk about the debate among Christians on Sabbatarian views. So first of all, I just want to point out, and we preached this, the Sabbath is a principle that's woven into creation that actually precedes the law. And so even when you get the abrogation of the law, Jesus like, hey, I fulfilled the law. The law is not a thing anymore. It's still a principle that's woven into creation. So obviously, where it comes from is Genesis 1, 2, and 3. God creates for six days, rests on the seventh day. And then the rest of the entire Bible goes. It's really interesting. The rest of the Bible primarily points to the Genesis creational pattern as why we practice the Sabbath. Okay, So I just want to point that out. Some people are like, ah, you don't gotta do it anymore. Cause it's not in the law. Well, I'm like, well, yeah, but it's woven into creation. I also wanna say, this is it. And, man, the book of the Bible, I'm drawing a blank. It's 1 Corinthians. One person considers one day more holy than another. That's 1 Corinthians 12:14, isn't it? 1 person considers one day more holy than another.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yeah, but then you also get something like that in Colossians as well. Colossians also about fav. During Sabbath day or new moon festival, stuff like that. Yeah, I believe Corinthians. I know what you're talking about.

[Josh Howerton]

Okay, so my view on that is people are like, well, hey, man. Yeah, I know. The original Sabbath was Saturday. Christians started worshiping on the Lord's Day. By the way, we actually have confirmation of that in the New Testament in Revelation. Were you going to say this?

[David Nassar]

No, no.

[Paul Cunningham]

Go, go, go.

[Josh Howerton]

You have John, who receives his revelation in the cave on the Isle of Patmos. You can go there. If you go over there. Paul, have you ever been over there? Oh, that's right. Sorry. I'm sorry, dude.

[Paul Cunningham]

Every time I think we.

[Carlos Arazo]

This is amazing.

[Josh Howerton]

I think every time y' all have

[Paul Cunningham]

suckered me in and I think it's over, they're like, oh, he's about to ask you a question.

[Carlos Arazo]

You're going, it's okay.

[Josh Howerton]

Someday when the war is over, hey, when there's complete peace in the Middle east, you'll be able to go over there. But John in the Isle of Patmos says that he was in the Spirit quote, it says on the Lord's Day. And so you even get this affirmation in the New Testament, in Revelation, hey, John is apparently worshiping on Sunday night, Saturday.

[Paul Cunningham]

And there's a couple places where it talks about how they gathered on the first day of the week.

[Josh Howerton]

First day of the week. That's right.

[Paul Cunningham]

On the first day of the week. You get to see it a few places.

[Josh Howerton]

So when people go, hey, does it. Okay, so I know I need to take a day. That's how God's created the universe. Does it matter which day? Honestly don't think it does. You know, like, for instance, I work pretty hard on Sunday.

[David Nassar]

Yes, you do.

[Josh Howerton]

And so Monday's my Sabbath. And then last principle. Actually, I'll get to principles later. So that's how I would view it. Now, Paul, can you give the postage stamp overview of the. The sab. The theological debate there is in Sabbatarian views for sure.

[Paul Cunningham]

There's generally four main views. I actually think we, we have a wrap it up for those who are watching. I'm speaking your love language right now.

[Carlos Arazo]

Every time we have a graph, it takes the episode to the next level.

[Paul Cunningham]

You don't even have to go to Israel to learn this.

[Josh Howerton]

That sounded weird. I'm not doing that again.

[Paul Cunningham]

Sounded like you were purring.

[David Nassar]

I don't know.

[Carlos Arazo]

That could be interpreted in different ways. So that's why I said complete the

[Josh Howerton]

word from the tongues episode. Keep going. Let's keep going.

[Carlos Arazo]

Or the merits one.

[David Nassar]

Either one.

[Josh Howerton]

All right, talk about Sabbath.

[Carlos Arazo]

Go ahead. If you got it, you got it.

[Paul Cunningham]

I am filtering out right now.

[Josh Howerton]

Talk about theology.

[Carlos Arazo]

Can you save that one for.

[Paul Cunningham]

Okay, four main. Four main views in terms of the Sabbath. Let me actually give reminder of background. So you had the Jewish Sabbath, but actually starts on Friday night. So their Sabbath begins at. At sundown on Friday, ends at sundown on Saturday. Christians began celebrating the Lord's Day more typically on Sunday. So you have four main views. One is called the Seventh day view, held by a Seventh Day Adventist, which is the idea that, hey, you have to observe the Sabbath. It is still morally binding. You have to do it and. Exactly, you have to do it on Saturday. It's the day where you cease from work and it's a day where you worship. Because part of this was Jewish people would also go to the synagogues on Saturday. So that's the idea is, hey, we don't go to synagogue, we go to church. So you cease from work and. And you worship, but specifically on Saturday. Then there's the Christian Sabbatarian view, which these people would say, hey, it is still binding. So to your point, this is a creational order. We see this Sabbath, the idea of God resting from his work on the seventh day. And these people would point out, wait a second, this is one of the Ten Commandments. And no one else for any of the other commandments would say, well, that's no longer binding. I guess I can murder anyone I want. I can lie however I want. I can have adultery, I can covet. No, like this. Their argument would be this isn't the one exception to that. That.

[Josh Howerton]

Can I give the devil's advocate?

[David Nassar]

Please do.

[Josh Howerton]

Obviously I'm a Sabbatarian. Yeah, but the devil's advocate is, if I understand correctly, every one of the Ten Commandments is restated in the New Testament except the Sabbath.

[Paul Cunningham]

Exactly. Yes, that would be the devil's advocates. That's why you already See, and that's the fun thing of doing this, is there's back and forth for each and even just. We've done this before, but for theological triage, this is truly a tertiary issue.

[Josh Howerton]

Yeah, dude, if you're dividing churches and life groups over this, get a life.

[Paul Cunningham]

We could. Yeah, I can't say it better myself. And so, yes, you have Christian Sabbatarian view, the idea of, hey, it is still binding. It's a day where we worship and we cease from work, but specifically that we do that on Sunday, commemorating that that was the day Jesus rose from the grave. You then have a non Sabbatarian view. And this is also called the Lutheran view because basically this idea that, hey, the Sabbath was just for Israel, this is not binding on Christians whatsoever. What Luther would say is that, like,

[Josh Howerton]

tied into, like, Marcianism, where this. Wait, is Marcionism, the one that's like, hey, the Old Testament is like, completely.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yeah, that's what he's. But, yeah, this is a little bit different. This is basically Luther would say, hey, the law. That law was specifically for Israel. It has nothing to do with us anymore. Although what Luther said was that.

[Josh Howerton]

Was he going, hey, that's part of the civil law. And, hey, we're no longer a nation state. Okay, exactly.

[Paul Cunningham]

But he would say also, he would say, hey, going through the Ten Commandments, hey, there's a deeper principle that we need to abide. So what Luther said is, hey, the day of observance is gone. So they had to observe it on a Saturday. That's not binding on us, nor do we have to observe it on a Sunday. What's binding is, he said, hey, the purpose of that commitment was the hearing of God's word. The hearing of God's word is what makes the day holy. But Luther would say, hey, that doesn't have to be on a Saturday or a Sunday. That can be any day. The key thing is that you're frequently hearing the word of God. So these people say, you do not have to observe the Sabbath. It's not binding. The big thing is hear God's word regularly. There's a fourth view that's kind of close to that, but it's what some would call a fulfillment view. And that's the idea of, hey, the command was fulfilled in Christ. He is your Sabbath rest, meaning he did everything you could not do. He kept the law perfectly. He the death that you deserve to die. He rose from the grave so that you could have life. And so the key to obeying this commandment is actually to rest in him and the work he's already done for you.

[Josh Howerton]

You don't have to name.

[Paul Cunningham]

This is more the fulfillment view, first Popularized by Hebrews4.

[Josh Howerton]

Yep.

[Paul Cunningham]

Based on Hebrews4, right? Yeah. But I think what they would say is that you no longer have. You no longer have to observe a specific day. What this view would say is, hey, there are those some deeper principles around man. Christians are called to rest, like practically rest, and we're called to gather and worsh. So these people would say, hey, Christ fulfilled this. Ultimately, we were called to rest in him, but there still are some basic principles like rest and worship and hey, practically speaking, let's just do that on Sunday. So they would say, you don't have to do it on Sunday. For example, like Calvin held this view. He said, hey, the biggest thing of this is actually resting in Christ. But we're still called to rest and we're still called to gather. Hey, Sunday's probably the best day. But Calvin would say, hey, don't become word you've used a few times legalistic about it having to be that day.

[Josh Howerton]

Let me just translate this, you know, for, you know, if you're like me, well, and you're like, what do you mean? What does it mean to rest in Christ? What are you even talking about, bro? What this means is Hebrews four would be your homework to read.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yes.

[Josh Howerton]

And essentially what's going on is, hey, man, we are not saved by works. We are saved by grace. And when you internalize that reality at the deepest parts of your soul, there's something that relaxes inside of you and you see something from moral striving.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yes.

[Carlos Arazo]

You know what that means? A lot of people miss this, but in the Bible, Adam and Eve's first full day of existence was rest, not work. And so God created man on the sixth day, and then Sabbath happened on the seventh day. And so this is why some people would say that the Sabbath in Genesis is the first image of the gospel in the Bible. And so it just, it mirrors basically, like Adam and Eve don't have to do anything to receive the love of God and the garden. They received that first, and then after they'd received it, then they get to work. In the same way Christians today, we don't have to do anything. It's only by the grace of God that we receive his love, his acceptance, his salvation. And because we have received that, now we get to work.

[Paul Cunningham]

Amen. And like, with that, let me say something that people who are more in the fulfillment view take. And then I want to say something that everyone shares a comment. Whenever we do this, I like to say, hey, here's what we all share in common. I think this will lead us into some of the practical tips around how to observe it. The fulfillment view, some people have put it like this, is that you are saved by works, just not yours. That's right, you're saved by what Christ has done. And so the key is, is to believe in that, have faith that, and rest in what Christ has done, not what you have to do. But one thing to highlight that all these views share in common is that they would all say, hey, we need to have time set apart during the week, whether it's on a specific day or not. We had to have time set apart where we have been designed by God to cease from our work and to rest, and where we have been designed to gather into worship. So all the views would say, hey, whether it's required or this is a biblical thing for us to cease from work and to rest and for gather and worship with God's people. The debate is just on some of those details.

[Josh Howerton]

Let me get. So basically what you're saying is like my. The view that I described would be essentially the fulfillment view.

[Paul Cunningham]

You're sound like, oh, sorry, I cut you off.

[Josh Howerton]

No, that's it.

[Paul Cunningham]

You sound kind of like me. I'm a hybrid between Sabbatarian and fulfillment. That to me is kind of like a. Hey, ultimately I don't. It doesn't have to be a specific day, but I am still called to and to worship with God's people, set

[Josh Howerton]

aside a day, a week, and practically

[Paul Cunningham]

speaking, it seems like we need to have a specific day or even in our case, set a day, Saturday and Sunday, where the heavens work. So you're. It sounds like you're like me. We're kind of a hybrid between those two.

[Josh Howerton]

All right, let me give some practical stuff, and then I'll ask each of you to fill in the gaps here on practical. First of all, what I've found is that practice, I mean, we go pretty hard. You know, we're building something, the Lord's doing something great, we go pretty hard. What I figured out is when you learn, and you have to learn, learn, by the way, when you learn to Sabbath deeply, it just, it, it changes it. Your whole week's different. I'm just telling you, man, legitimately, the whole week's different when you Sabbath, like down to the toes of your soul. So let me just say a few things that I've learned as a guy. I like to I honestly man, I like to work. I like what I do. I, you know, it's like I have to make myself stop because I like it. I like, I like working. I like.

[Carlos Arazo]

You were designed to work.

[Josh Howerton]

You were built for that. There you go, man. First, let me give a couple practical things. Number one, I'm just going to point this out. The fourth commandment begins. Six days you shall work. So you can't bypass the six days you shall work and skip to the one day you shall rest. So like you're not going to be able to do the rest day if you didn't do the six work days. Like you got to work hard to get it done. I'll just gently say this. I read that John Mark Comer book Ruthless Elimination of Hurry a few years ago. Great book, loved it. It was legitimately really good. But a lot of people read that book, they don't need to read that book. And, and there's like, it's like your 20 year old guy that's like never actually done anything and is really worried about his mental health when he's taking like four days off per week and playing 80 hours of video games and he's like, I'm trying to ruthlessly eliminate her. I'm like, bro, you're ruthlessly eliminating work is what you're doing. So you gotta, you gotta work in order to be able to rest. Let's just obviously start there.

[David Nassar]

There.

[Josh Howerton]

Two, I'll just point this out. What I've found for me and Jana as we've really tried to. We take this serious. I mean like, Jana meal. I'll get to that in a second. What I've found is that we think of it body, soul, spirit. So tripartite, tripartite theological view of who we are. Obviously body, that's part of you you can touch. Soul, mind, will and emotions. Spirit. That's the part of me that relates to God. Honestly. If you do a good Sabbath, you kind of got to think in all three. So number one, I'm doing stuff like this. Relaxing for me. Like, honestly man, that's why I like to fish. If I'm a fish, it's probably going to be Monday, I'm going to walk out of the pond. I like it. I like, Honestly man, I used to, it used to be kind of relaxing to kind of mow the lawn. You know, we got a big old field now, so I don't mess with that. But you know, it's just like, I take a bunch of walks, I just like being outside. But like Find stuff, take naps. I'll just point this out if you want. Really, really be like, Jesus fish and take naps and be on boats. There you go. That's what Jesus did. So amen in Jesus name. So one, find stuff you can rest your body. Number two, soul, mind, will and emotions. It's like, just honestly, dude, just ask yourself the question, what is it that replenishes me? So, like, I'm gonna. I literally wrote a list. Here's the stuff that I figured out replenishes me. Me fishing. I like driving my kids to school. I don't know what it is. I like being in the car with my kids. I take them to school on Monday and I pick them up on Monday. And it's like the. It just. It fills my cup. Devices off. I'll just say, like, I have learned my soul will not rest if my devices are on. I like being around fire pit. I hope I'm allowed to. I think I'm a lot. Yeah, I'm allowed to say this is my podcast. But I like. You know, I've never been drunk in my life. I like a good bourbon on Monday. If I can sit around a fire pit with one glass, there's a specific bourbon I like. It's just. Dude, it's just something about it relaxing to me. And then I got this from a. From Darren Patrick, God rest his soul. A preacher that was a good friend of mine that I listened to a long time ago. He told me to practice slowing on a Sabbath. And it, like, I do. I intentionally walk and drive slower on Sabbaths. And it just does something to me. It does. And then last thing I'd say, so, body, soul. And then last thing I'd say is spirit. So I would just say this. Some people, they just, like, take a day off and like, oh, well, that was the Sabbath. Well, no, no. It says, set it apart as holy unto the Lord.

[David Nassar]

That's holy, right?

[Josh Howerton]

So I'm. Again, I'm. I don't want to sound crass here, but there's one. One theologian I read, he called when people just take a day off and they don't worship or don't connect with God in their spirit. He called it a bastard Sabbath. He said, oh, you did a Sabbath without the Father? And it, man. Honestly, it's like, no, no, you're not getting what your soul needs if you don't do some things to, like, deeply get in the word of God, get in prayer. So I'll just tell you what I do. And I want you guys, to fill in the cracks here, if you got any thoughts is I got two preachers I listen to Joby Martin and John Tyson. Every preacher needs a preacher. I listen to one of them in the morning with my Bible on my lap. I listen to the other one while I'm working out. It's relaxing for me to work out. So I work out on Monday and I do that. I get my personal Bible reading in and I take a prayer walk. But I got to have something that is like, hey, man, I'm like, connecting with my father. Father. Because the purpose of the Sabbath is to connect with my father. That's why Christians worship. We worship on our Sabbath.

[Paul Cunningham]

Amen.

[Josh Howerton]

Okay, so that. That's what I do. You guys got any just super practical stuff. What you got?

[Carlos Arazo]

Sure. I think one helpful, I think for. For people that maybe are wired more like, you know, like me or you, Josh. Like, you know, it's not a. Sometimes we. It's easy to just keep going and, you know, it's not so easy to necessarily stop. I think this, this has helped me in the past. When we practice Sabbath, we mimic God in order to remind ourselves that we are not God. And so we mimic God in the sense of, you know, God rested. So if God rest, if the creator of the universe rested, who are you not to rest? And then when we do so, we remind ourselves we are not God. And. And. And that just tells you, hey, like, the world keeps going without you. That's okay. If you can take one day out of your whole week to take a break. Break, I think. And so for me, the way I see Sabbath is my quote, unquote, my opposite day. So whatever I do the rest of the week, I do the opposite on Sabbath. And so, like, my job, you know, people will know is literally social media news, non stop podcasting, all the things. On my Sabbath, I literally take a full day where I do not intentionally do not go on social media. So I don't do YouTube, I don't do Facebook, I don't do Instagram. I don't check notifications. And that is. And I have to literally stop myself because I have such an inertia towards it. And then after a full day, my soul legitimately feels refreshed, which is exactly what people try to do when they hit refresh, refresh, refresh. And their soul is never refreshed. I'm quoting pastor Josh, vintage 2022, by the way.

[Josh Howerton]

I got that from Steven Furtick.

[David Nassar]

I like it.

[Josh Howerton]

So you're quoting me quoting.

[Carlos Arazo]

Well, there you go. And so on my side.

[Josh Howerton]

Oh, my gosh, what were you going?

[Paul Cunningham]

Inside joke. Okay, inside. Or stories. Okay.

[Carlos Arazo]

And so anyways, on my Sabbath, I intentionally disconnect from technology as much as I can so that I can intentionally connect with my father.

[Josh Howerton]

That's great.

[Carlos Arazo]

That's John chapter 15, by the way. And then, and then, you know, similar to you again, start my morning. I want to make that day as fun as I want to disciple my family to understand that the Sabbath means fun, joy, and the presence and the word of God.

[David Nassar]

God.

[Carlos Arazo]

And so we want to do fun things. We do. We do. Again, opposite day. I'm. We try to eat healthy. Generally speaking, Sabbath, I do sugary breakfast, pancakes, ice cream, later, all the things. Basically it's my, you know, basically when you go on a plane and you hit airplane mode, Sabbath is God's original airplane mode.

[Paul Cunningham]

Oh, I like that.

[David Nassar]

Good.

[Paul Cunningham]

Just briefly, to remind people, it says that the Sabbath was made for man, not made for the Sabbath. In other words, it's for our benefit. What I often point out with this topic is that, hey, what benefits you and you may not benefit me. We're all wired a little bit differently. So usually the way I like to approach this is to kind of frame it around questions. And it's similar to even some of the topics that you were hitting. So I just wrote down three questions. For one, what renews my body? So for some people, that's going to be more slowing down and taking naps. But for others, that might be actually be more active. So when we were in Washington state, my wife, after teaching kids for a whole week at elementary school, she needed a nap. She needed to get away from people. But you know what I needed? I needed to get in the mountains alone and just hike and be in nature. And I would hike 10 miles or I'd go hunting in the mountains. And that's what restored me. So number one, what renews my body? Number two, what restores my soul or an increasingly would be spirit as well. So when I say that, I mean like my, like my mental, my emotional and my spiritual state. Hey, what renews that for you? So for some people, that's painting. For some people, that's journaling. For some people, it's being out nature boat, whatever that is for you. You, like, find it and then do it. And then finally, who or what receives my worship, Something is going to receive my worship on my, my Sabbath day because something's going to receive my time and my energy. And I'm saying this is worthy of My worship. And while all those other things are amazing, at the end of the day, I don't want my God to take a backseat to my garden.

[Josh Howerton]

Oh, that's good.

[Paul Cunningham]

Or to my lawn or to anything else. I want God to receive my worship. So I need to make sure and carve out space where again, I'm gathering with the people of God and worshiping, worshipping God in spirit and in truth. And so with that, a specific thing in terms of church attendance, not just about that, because it can also be personal Bible study and prayer and things like that. I've just learned Sunday morning worship attendance is a Saturday evening decision.

[Josh Howerton]

There you go.

[Paul Cunningham]

Saturday morning worship is a Saturday. I mean, Sunday morning worship is a Saturday evening decision. Or if it's Saturday night, shout out Dean and Sarah. That's right. Yes. You see the original? Yeah, I see the original. Or if it's Saturday evening where you come. Which, by the way, we need more people to come to that. That would be a Saturday morning decision. The point is like, hey, at the end of the day, you're to fill your time up with something. Make sure on the front end of your weekend to intentionally carve that out and set that aside. So if I was going to give people an assignment, it would be just to sit down and answer those questions for you of what would benefit you, what would renew your body, what would restore your soul, and then what is going to receive your worship on a

[Josh Howerton]

weekend that's amazing, y' all last. Wait, wait, let me say one more thing. And then we're going to get ready for one of the most interesting conversations I've literally ever had in my life with David Nassar about everything going on in Iran. It's interesting that the Fourth commandment, it doesn't just talk about you. It's like, hey, you, your kids, kids, your male servants, your female servants. All the people around you so specifically mentioned the community. Actually, you guys have been to some of these. One of the things me and Jana do is we. We call them week at our house, we call them Sabbath meals, but we'll invite a bunch of Christian friends over. And you guys have been and hung out and we, we. We order in food so we don't gotta do any work. And it's a bunch of people we like that also love Jesus. They come over, all their kids come over. The house is a total. It's. It's a. It's a joyous chaos. And then you guys have been. We have, we hang out, we sit on rocking chairs on front porch. We talk about life and ministry and sports and whatever. And then we all eat, and then we do this thing at the end. I encourage you to do this maybe with your life group, bunch of dudes you like, whoever it is. And then at the end, whenever dessert comes, we always do the same thing. We get dessert. And then not just us, but with all the kids sitting around, we'll go around and everybody tells, like, hey, dude, what's the Jesus story you got, man? What's the. Like, who'd you hear about God? Did something in their life or your life? And here's the hack on this A. We're reminding ourselves about the goodness of the father. The parenting hack is all of our kids are growing up watching their dads, and then their dad's friends talk about Jesus. And I'm just telling you, like, that's a cheat code. It's a cheat code of all cheat codes when you're trying to raise kids that love Jesus. Because what that does is if any of our kids someday, they want to walk away from the faith.

[Paul Cunningham]

Faith.

[Josh Howerton]

They don't just got to walk away from Paul and you're Eliza, or you can bleep that out if you want to. They don't just got to walk away from Carlos. They got to walk away from you and all the adults that they thought were the coolest people in the whole world when they were growing up. And Uncle Josh, who was my prayer partner when I turned 13 and we turned into text prayer partner friends. And it. I'm just telling you, it's cheat code. End all cheat codes on Christian parenting. So strongly encourage something like that.

[Carlos Arazo]

That's a good man. We have David Nasser coming up in just a minute. It Stay tuned. All right, live Free nation, Listen up. This is one of our favorite weekends of the year. March 21st and 22nd is free t shirt weekend at Lake Point Church. And yes, we're talking free T shirts for the whole family. All campuses, youth and adult size. All you got to do is just show up. And here's why this matters. This isn't about free merch. It's about mission. You put that shirt on, and you're representing what God is. Is doing through Lake Pointe Church. You're showing people you're not ashamed of your faith. And when somebody asks you about it, that's your moment. That's your open door to say, hey, you should come with me to Easter. It's one of the easiest ways to represent Jesus and invite someone to church without it being awkward. This, by the way, is an in person only event. And shirts are first come, first served. So don't roll in late. Get there early and grab yours while supplies. Last March 21st and 22nd free t shirt weekend. Let's wear the mission. Let's invite Courageously. We will see you there.

[Josh Howerton]

David Nasser. Welcome to Live Free.

[David Nassar]

Man. It's so good to be here.

[Josh Howerton]

This is awesome. So, hey, can I tell you a story real quick?

[David Nassar]

Yeah.

[Josh Howerton]

Okay. So the first time I ever hung out with you, there's no way you're gonna remember this because I was in college my freshman year in college.

[David Nassar]

Yeah.

[Josh Howerton]

You preached a Disciple now, come on. At Two Rivers Baptist Church.

[David Nassar]

Yeah. Was that your home church?

[Josh Howerton]

That was not my home church.

[David Nassar]

Okay.

[Josh Howerton]

I was a leader at that Disciple Now.

[David Nassar]

Okay. Like a small group leader.

[Josh Howerton]

Yes. I still use this as a sermon. I use you as a sermon illustration.

[David Nassar]

Is this good or bad?

[Josh Howerton]

It's good. About once a year, dude, you preach. I had literally never heard a pastor. You preached a John 3:16 sermon.

[David Nassar]

Yeah.

[Josh Howerton]

the end of the sermon. This was on Sunday morning?

[David Nassar]

Yeah.

[Josh Howerton]

You did an altar. It was one of the best altar calls I've ever heard. There was a deacon in his 90s from Two Rivers Baptist Church sitting in the pew in front of me. Me that stood up in a three piece suit. When you did that altar call. I walked down and I watched you embrace that man and pray with him to receive Christ. That's amazing, dude. I have never forgotten it the rest

[David Nassar]

of my life, I actually remember it.

[Josh Howerton]

Do you really?

[David Nassar]

Yeah. Because it's so unusual to see someone who is a senior citizen. Like you see a lot of seniors in high school, but to see a senior citizen say, man, I know a lot. I. I remember that elderly man, like literally saying, like, I know more Bible than you. I just don't know him, you know? And just for someone at that age to be still tender to God's calling, that's heroic, you know?

[Josh Howerton]

Yeah.

[David Nassar]

So you were there?

[Josh Howerton]

I was there.

[David Nassar]

Come on.

[Josh Howerton]

I could barely any facial hair, you know, Pubescent.

[David Nassar]

I gotta shave. Yeah. Hey, before we move on, I gotta first before I gotta say man, like, well done, bro. Good and faithful servant. What God's doing, I just cheer you on. And everyone on your team, Carlos, everyone. What God's doing right now is special. And the way you're stewarding it, I think with humility and grace, but yet with like a focus on, like, this is why we do it. This is what we're going to stay on. I'm just grateful for you and When I was at Liberty University as campus pastor, I brought you in to do convocation and it was, it was a highlight for our students. And you came at a moment where we, we couldn't all gather. So, like, everyone's sitting in dorms, 25

[Josh Howerton]

people in that enormous masks. Yes.

[David Nassar]

But everyone's watching in dorms. And that's a real uphill battle, like for a communicator. But it just yielded such great fruit because God just has an anointing on your life, man.

[Josh Howerton]

Thank you.

[David Nassar]

And so I love you, buddy. I'm in your corner and I'm just grateful for you. So.

[Josh Howerton]

Yeah, that's really mutual. Yeah, let's talk. Let's talk Iran.

[David Nassar]

Yeah.

[Josh Howerton]

Okay. So like, dude, I'm super interested in this and I'm gonna shoot you really straight. I told you before we started recording, I'm the dumb American kid. So like, with all this stuff going on in Iran, there's all these assumptions that I had about what is and isn't going on over there that I'm realizing, like, oh, dude, I don't, I don't got a clue what's going on over there. So really quick, let's start here. Give a little bit of your background and story that obviously will dovetail into why you are here. To talk about, About Iran.

[David Nassar]

Yeah. So obviously I'm Persian, I'm Iranian, and I'm an American citizen by paperwork, but I was born in Iran. And in 1979, when the Ayatollah Khomeini and his religious zealots took over the nation of Iran, when the Iranian revolution happened, my dad was high ranked in the military in Iran. And so I remember those days, like for me, from my seat in the stands, Josh, it was, something is happening. Our world is turning upside down. But I was just a 9 year old kid playing with my Legos, you know, and I lived in an army base with some of the other high ranking folks in our base. And I remember about the week and a half, two weeks into the revolution, literally going to school, I went to a military school in our army base. And we got to school and they called us out behind the school for an assembly. Like we didn't have a gym to meet in. We get out in this field and a soldier was standing in front of the whole school, took out a piece of paper, said the name of three students, mind me in the first one and ask us to make our way to the front. And I made my way to the front and I remember he took a gun out of a Holster, put it in my head. And with his hand shaking, he just kind of started to quote the Quran and he said that he's been sent to make an example of us. Bro, I've never heard this before. Yeah, man, what the heck? So I'm confused as a nine year old kid, you're like, what's going on? But I remember thinking, this guy looks scared. So now as an adult I'm really like, he looks scared enough to actually mean it. And at that moment they were, you know, the government had been overthrown, the Ayatollah Khomeini had taken over. The king had been, you know, had been dethroned. And in that moment, everybody who was anybody was no longer a nobody. And all these other people were rising up and they were using terror, they were using fear. That's the greatest weapon of a terrorism of a terrorist, like to instill fear in the life of people so they won't rise up against you. And they had decided because of who my father was, they were going to make an example out of me, right? And so the school principal got between me and the gun and said, please come back another day. And I don't understand that. And I remember I never made it to class. They took me in a car back home and my dad got home immediately. I guess somebody had told him what had happened. And that's the first time, Josh, where I remember my dad, who was like a bit of an Alpha, you know what I mean? Like this guy was a giant military man, tough. That's the first time I saw him. He's just weeping and he sat me on his lap and that's when he told me, the government has been overthrown and you're not going back to school. They're making an example out of us, but we're going to get out of here.

[Josh Howerton]

I just remember this is 79.

[David Nassar]

Yeah, this is right in the middle of all that. And so for the next couple days, I saw my parents kind of hub up in the corner and they're kind of conspiring on how they can get out as fast as they can and take our family out of, out of this harm's way. And then, man, I remember before we could implement the escape plan, soldiers coming to my home and dragging my dad out of our home. And when I say dragging, my mom had her hands around the leg of one of the soldiers. And as they're dragging my dad out of the house, she's just screaming, just let him die quickly. Just let him die quickly. And I just remember As a little kid, like, you're trying to process this, you're like, what's happening? And they took my dad out of the home and my mom was in the front and my sister and I, we ran up to the front and we sat there in the front with my mom and she said, let's pray. That's my first memory ever of prayer.

[Josh Howerton]

And she, this is going to dovetail what we're talking about in a second when she's saying, let's pray. Is this an Islamic family?

[David Nassar]

Yeah, yeah, but we're a very westernized version of it. My mom's not wearing a chador. You know, we're not like, we're kind of, oh, it's called like Easter Christians. We're kind of, we're culturally Muslims. But so my mom says, let's pray. And I remember Josh, all she kept saying over and over again in the prayer was the same thing. She was crying and she just kept saying, let him die quickly. Let him die quickly. So she says, amen. And my sister says, why are we saying that? And she said, look, they're taking your dad to this park. This is the same park where they took his friend yesterday and they tied him to a tree, they took a pair of pliers and tortured him. And we need to pray that your dad's not tortured, he's just killed quick. So when you're nine, bro, and you're praying that, yeah, the last thing you're thinking is, God loves me and has a wonderful plan for my life. So I remember being a 9 year old kid and thinking, I don't know what we've done to make God so mad, but apparently he's mad and he's gunning after me and my family. I know most 9 year olds don't think stuff like this. I know most 9 year olds don't wake up and think, I hate God. But I was nine when I decided I hated God. You know, most nine year olds think stuff like, I don't know, should I hate this crayon? Or whatever. But I was nine and I was like, he started it, you know. And that afternoon, my dad wasn't killed. He came home, he said they'd give me a few more weeks. And so we planned our escape. And our escape plan was to leverage my mom's heart issues that she'd been having as a way to. So we went to these doctors, we cut a deal with them, and the deal was that they would help us escape from Iran, and in exchange we'd give them our home Our cars, our clothes, and everything that we owned. And so lock and load. About a week later, my mom acted like her heart was bothering her. It was all staged. Ambulance came and got her. They took her in this back room in a hospital. They came out and said, she needs bypass surgery. We don't have the technology for what she needs and she needs to go immediately to Switzerland and the family needs to go for support. And so all this was fake. We got two way airline tickets, like we were going and coming back, and the house sitter, but we weren't coming back. We're running for our lives. And I remember holding my dad's hand in the airport, man, and his hands are shaking and he's saying, if they find out we're escaping, they're gonna kill us right here on the spot. But when you're nine and you think God is harming you, that's the view you've got as a kid. Like, we gotta get. I thought we'd get away from God, but I look back now and I can see God wasn't hurting us, he was holding us. I love Isaiah 41, 9, 10, where it says, I took you from the ends of the earth. From as farthest corners, I called you and I said, do not fear, I am with you. I will help you and I will hold you in my righteous right hand. And so, so often we think we're getting his wrathful left, but we're really getting his righteous right. And so, man, we get on a plane, we go up in the air, we land, and instead of the hospital, we say, hey, all this was fake. And we go to the American consulate and we apply for political asylum in Switzerland. Yeah. Which is a fancy way of saying we want to become refugees, we want to find refuge in America. But at that time, bro, nobody was allowing people from my neck of the woods into your neck of the woods, because I was from the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm from Iran. People are turning the TV on, there's a revolution going on. They're burning the American flag, calling America the Great Satan, who's the president of.

[Josh Howerton]

In 79.

[David Nassar]

In 79, the king, king Pahlavi had been overthrown and the Ayatollah had been brought out of exile in. And all of a sudden it had gone from a monarchy to a, you know, dictatorship. Yeah. And so all of a sudden it's a theocracy and they're taking over. It's just the very beginnings of that moment. Right. And in the middle of all of that, they've held 55Americans hostage in the American embassy in Iraq, Iran. And the importance of that in my narrative is that when the American hostages got taken, bro, all of a sudden this wasn't something that people watched on tv. That was happening across an ocean. All of a sudden it was like, this is our people. And so every day on the news, back when people watched the news, there was no Internet. Dan Rather, Walter. I mean, people are every day, every day, day 54, the American hostage, day 62 of the American answer wasn't that.

[Josh Howerton]

I thought I read something. Wasn't that like part of the reason that it tanked? Like Jimmy Carter's reelection bid or something like that?

[David Nassar]

Man, bro, you know, I mean, I read, I had President Carter as a guest at Liberty. He did our baccalaureate. Yeah, it's surreal to sit across from him in my office and just go, president Carter, we've got about 12 minutes until nothing happens. Can you give me your view of what happened?

[Josh Howerton]

That's amazing.

[David Nassar]

And I cannot share on a podcast what he said. But he. Again, you ask 20 people what happened and they're going to give you 20 different views of what they think happened.

[Josh Howerton]

All right, I interrupted you.

[David Nassar]

For him, he was coming up on an election intent and it's like, do we want to give him a win? So he thought, yeah, some patriots weren't very patriots anyway. So all that to say, like, it was complicated, but for me as a kid, we're in Europe trying to just get here, here. And we are from the wrong place at the wrong time. Right. And so for nine months, we tried legally, we tried illegally, we could, we couldn't. We could. We moved from Switzerland to Munich, Germany, because we were told that's where people are most sympathetic to a cause like ours. And then, man, my mom got us together one day, nine months into just being, you know, in exile, like being in Europe waiting. And she showed us a picture of a white man, kind of a handsome Duck Dynasty looking fella. She was like, you guys know who this is?

[Josh Howerton]

Shout out. Phil Robertson.

[David Nassar]

Yeah. And she was like, well, we've kind of exhausted all our. All our evidence. She was like, this is Jesus and he's American and we need to ask him to let us into his country.

[Josh Howerton]

Are you serious?

[David Nassar]

Some of your listeners are probably not laughing. They're like, why is that funny? Because they literally think Jesus is a white Republican who's going to be on Hannity tonight. They don't realize he was actually more originally from my neck of the woods.

[Josh Howerton]

Yeah, that's right.

[David Nassar]

He's more camel dynasty than duck dynasty. So anyway, so we don't know that. And God's bigger than geography and theology. We close our eyes and we're like, jesus, let us into your country. And, man, a week after we mentioned the name of Jesus, he opened the doors for us we couldn't open for ourselves. And so, man, we're coming to America all of a sudden, and I'm thinking, I hate religion. But, hey, Jesus, thanks for letting us in here.

[Josh Howerton]

Thank you, thank you.

[David Nassar]

And you know what we do? This is going to make more sense to you guys because you're right here in Rockwall, Texas. We don't move to Iran Jeles like the rest of them. We don't move to New York. We move to Killeen, Texas.

[Josh Howerton]

Did you really?

[David Nassar]

Because my dad had taken flight training at Fort Hood. So can you imagine during the Iran hostage situation, while Iran is the enemy, we moved to patriotic Texas, to the largest army base in the world military town from Iran. I mean, I am a wedgie waiting to happen. You know, I come in, wrong haircut. I'm like, hello, I am David. And they're like, you are so gonna get beat up today after school. And I'm getting every nickname. I'm getting called Bean dip. And I'm not even Mexican. I'm like, you're not even accurate in your racism. And we honestly have escaped. We have escaped from one place that's dangerous to a whole other place that's dangerous. And sometimes I like to paint it this way. Like, we exchange one kind of terrorism for another.

[Paul Cunningham]

Oh, wow.

[David Nassar]

And the other one was the emotional, right? Where, like. And the weapon of mass destruction on emotional terrorism is not like, the mean things people call you. It's when you're not even worthy of being bullied. You're just. I remember being in America and thinking, if this is refugee, this doesn't feel like safe. This doesn't feel refuge. I remember seeing 15 birthday party invitations go out when there were 16 kids in the classroom. And I knew I wasn't going to the skating rink to. To eat a square cake. And so for years and years, that was me. I was the outcasted kid. Until today. My freshman year in high school was about to start. And by this time, we'd moved to Alabama. And my dad heard me crying in my bedroom. And he came in and said, what's wrong? And I told him, I said, dad, it's gone well for you. Because by this time, he'd learned how to hustle and do good for himself in America. But I said, look, I'm the outcasted kid. I'm not even getting bullied by the bully. I'm getting bullied by the kid who's getting bullied by the bully. And the. And my dad felt sorry for me. And that's the day before my freshman year in high school, Josh, where my dad tried to fix it, but actually he meant well, but he broke it even more. He took me to the mall, got me new clothes, new haircut, new shoes, everything. And just to try to help me assimilate. And those are the years where I went to high school and I looked different. I call it geek to chic. And so Abdul to Julio. You know, I walked in, and, man, those are the years of my life where it was a bonfire of vanities. You know, it says in scripture, do not conform to the patterns of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Tell that to a kid who's really lonely, who's like, I'm already not conforming. I will do whatever to conform, even if it's fabricated friendships, because I just don't want to be alone. And my high school years became those years. I learned how to dump the right girl before she could dump me. I learned how to be cold to people, to be perceived as cool to people. It's so true where it says in scripture, what good is it for a man to gain the whole world world but to forfeit his soul? And I sold out. So I graduated from high school popular, but completely emotionally bankrupt. Nobody would have seen me as a Muslim. I was just this kid who partied a lot, and. And they knew I was, like Shiite Muslim by heritage. And one night after high school, I was smoking weed with a buddy of mine. And while we were smoking weed, he invited me to church. I wish he was there, but that's the South.

[Josh Howerton]

Yeah. There you go. Yep.

[David Nassar]

And I told him there's no way I was going to go. And he said, why? And I turned down the music while we're finishing the joint. And I said, I hate. I hate God. I'm Muslim by heritage, but I saw religion gone wrong in Iran, and I want to have nothing to do with them. And he kept telling me that. He told me the five prettiest girls from my high school were going to be there. And so I felt kind of motivated. So on a Saturday night, I. This is my favorite part of my story. All right? On a Saturday night, I. I go in the house. I know my dad's going to say no, but I'm trying to get my buddy off my back. I'm kind of stoned. I walk down the hallway and I knock on my parents bedroom door and I said, mom and dad, it's midnight. I'm home. I'm safe. I know you're going to say no. Just say no loud enough so you'll. So my friend leave me alone. Because he's standing at the door, like, listening to see if I'm going to actually ask if I can go with him tomorrow to church. And instead of saying no, I thought, my dad's going to give a quick no. My dad yells from his bed, what is the name of it? He's asking the name of the church. Church. And what I didn't know was that I'm standing there on that Saturday night. But two weeks prior to that Saturday night, Josh, there were these people from this church, Shades Mountain Baptist Church, down the street from my home that had come to my dad's restaurant to eat. Guy named Aubrey Edwards had brought a few people to eat while they were eating at my dad's restaurant. They'd seen how my dad was shorthanded on waitstaff, and instead of complaining about the bad service, they rolled up their sleeves and waited on tables at my dad's restaurant. Then they went back the next day and did it again.

[Josh Howerton]

Let's go.

[David Nassar]

They went back the next day and did it again. And then at the end of, like, you know, lunch rush, Aubrey Edwards invited my dad to choir practice. And because kindness is a superpower.

[Paul Cunningham]

Come on, man.

[David Nassar]

My dad went to choir practice. Come on. By the way, like, we're not the kind of family where we download a dinner. Like, none of this. We don't know any of this. And at the end of choir practice, Aubrey put a piece of paper out into the choir, and people signed up to work for free as shifts for busboys and waiters at my dad's restaurant to help him. So God in his sovereignty had used that to tenderize my dad's heart. Fast forward two weeks later, I'm asking if I can go to church. Instead of saying no, he goes, what is the name of it? And then my buddy yells out the name Shades, and it's the same one as the people. I mean, that'll make you Calvinist, bro.

[Josh Howerton]

It so happens. Yeah.

[David Nassar]

And so my dad goes, I know those people. You can go there. And so my story is about a church who was a bunch of believers who were believable, a bunch of Christians who were Christ, like, a couple months ago, man, I was In Orlando at a church. And between the second and the third service, I was telling my story. This lady came up. She's a grandma. I could tell she had. Their grandkids were saying, grandma. Grandma Gigi, they were calling her. And she walked up kind of teary eyed, and she said, hey. When I was at college, I remember being at choir practice one night and I signed up. I was a waitress at your dad's restaurant for a couple of weeks. And we're standing there and I was like, it's your fault I'm here, you know? And so the hero of my story is not me. That's amazing. The hero of my story is not a pastor who had a polished up message or a worship leader who just kind of like, knew how to like, wow, you know, with the hero, with his vocal ability. The hero of my story is honestly, is a worship leader who led worship with a mop in his hand at my dad's restaurant, not with a mic.

[Josh Howerton]

Come on, man.

[David Nassar]

And so I got to go to church. I went to church. I mean, and they saw the 10:40 window coming to them. Dude. And for eight Monday nights, they came to my house and shared the gospel with me. They had this thing called visitation, I remember. And. And then one night I got saved. And the night I got saved, my parents were not happy. And the night I got baptized, my parents disowned me and kicked me out of the house. And five months after I moved in with these guys that all lived in a one bedroom apartment with me, my. My sister became a Christian. And then five months after that, my mother became a Christian. And then five months after that, my brother Benjamin, who's fearfully and wonderfully made down syndrome, became a Christian. And then two and a half years later, my dad got saved.

[Paul Cunningham]

Wow.

[David Nassar]

And so I'm telling you all that, and I know you want to kind of talk maybe Iran and what's going on right now, but from my journey, religion broke our lives, broke the back of everything we held certain. And God works all things for the good of his purpose.

[Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[David Nassar]

And we came to America looking for the American dream, but we actually found something so much bigger. Like, I'm a patriot, as you can tell, this country has been very good to me. Like, you got to go through me. If you're going to bash this nation. It's the best thing going. I really believe that. But America makes a great God, but a horrible. I mean, America makes a great nation, but a horrible God. And as much as I love this country, what I love the most isn't what it's afforded me, me in the land of opportunity, but the freedom by which I came to Christ here.

[Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[David Nassar]

And my family found redemption here. And so that journey for me is real this week, because as much as we are a bit of the American dream, we always held the second dream, bro. And the second dream was that we would see our people that we left behind, our family, our friends. Friends. Be able to be afforded the liberty that we were given.

[Josh Howerton]

Yeah.

[David Nassar]

And then this week.

[Josh Howerton]

Yeah.

[David Nassar]

All of a sudden, it feels like they might be liberated.

[Josh Howerton]

Okay.

[David Nassar]

This is the week where you might

[Josh Howerton]

tip, which would be decades worth of answer prayers.

[David Nassar]

So 47 years ago.

[Paul Cunningham]

You know what I mean?

[Josh Howerton]

That's amazing.

[David Nassar]

Long time coming.

[Josh Howerton]

Well, what's interesting is, like, honestly, it's like your story is like a microcosm of what's happening with the nation. So it's like, got this intersection of geopolitics and cultural issues and the sovereignty of God and the advance of the gospel and that. So I want to talk about that, because there's more going on than just the geopolitics. There's some very spiritual. There's a very, very. We're going to talk about this here in a second.

[David Nassar]

Absolutely.

[Josh Howerton]

Things I don't think most American Christians understand. So, first of all, can you help us understand some stuff that goes into what we're seeing with the Iranian church and some things like this? So let me show you some things real quick that I'm the dumb American kid. There's some stuff this week that, as I was watching it, I was like, bro, that makes no sense to me. So let me show you some stuff that made no sense to me. All right, so we obviously strike Iran. And how do you pronounce the guy's name? I don't want to put the. The. The leader, Khamenei.

[David Nassar]

Khomeini was the one who. Who came in when we were there. And then when he died, Khamenei came in.

[Josh Howerton]

Okay, so it's him. And it was like 30 of the top leaders, if I understand it correctly. They all got hit. Okay, so then that. That's what. That's what I read.

[David Nassar]

Okay.

[Josh Howerton]

So then you see this. And this is. Obviously, you can go and play this. This is video in Iran.

[David Nassar]

That's right.

[Josh Howerton]

Yeah. They're just going, like, celebrating.

[David Nassar]

Just jubilation.

[Josh Howerton]

Yeah, they're celebrating. Okay. So first of all, I'm seeing this. I'm like, bro, that makes no sense to me at all. So this is Just jubilant while they're celebrating that. Yeah, I'm like, so, okay, I see this. Then I start seeing stuff like this. Show that picture. It's like this, you know, thank you, Trump. From the Iranian people. Iranian people, all this, all this stuff. And dude, I'm like, that makes no sense to me because why would it not with dumb American? I'm going, well, wait, didn't we just attack your country? You see what I'm saying? So like I'm, you know, try to back up to idiots like me and help, help us understand. Well, actually. And then show the last one. So it was a picture, it was a picture of contrast. So you have the Iranian people celebrating. No, no, do the one on the right. The one on the right is the one I want. So then this is New York's, another one of the. Yeah. So then you have Americans protesting. Yeah, hands off Iran. Iran. Hands off Iran. So this is a protest in New York City. So, so help, help, help me.

[David Nassar]

I haven't seen that.

[Josh Howerton]

Yeah.

[David Nassar]

So people in Iran are saying they're furious and the people in America are like, ah, bad.

[Josh Howerton]

Yeah, hands off Iran. So help me understand. Like dumb American kid. Yeah, okay, it seems like America just attack your country. Why are the Iranian people celebrating us, quote unquote, attacking the country? Help us understand.

[David Nassar]

Yeah, well, there are 90 million Iranians and so ask 90 million of them, you're going to get very different answers. However, the overwhelming sentiment, for those of us outside this place, all over the world looking and saying this is an answer to prayer. This is what we've been wanting for our people all the way from the actual people inside who are at the most been oppressed for all of these years. The overwhelming sentiment is gratitude towards America and towards the people that were so grateful for true, you know, allegiance. I mean, true allies who would step in to help us. It's almost like you gotta understand the Iranian spirit. The Iranian people were gonna do this on their own.

[Josh Howerton]

Okay?

[David Nassar]

It was gonna give 40,000 if not more Iranians were killed in the last few months, pushing up against these people, right? Wanting these tyrants gone. And, and so all that's happening. But it's almost like, and this is a simplification of it, but it's almost like you're tasked to cut a 2 acre lot and you got your rusty mower and then your next door neighbor says, hey, I got a rotten mower. You're like, come on, help me. Like the Iranian people are saying, look, they've got guns. We don't have Guns, they've got tanks. We don't have tanks. They shut down our Internet. We can't communicate. And so when friendly, ally, allegiance, friendly allies come and help you, what happens is, this is their. The Iranian people's good fight at the end of the day to fight, but it's good to get help. And so the gratitude shown by people in Iran and by people all around the world who know what's happening is. Thank you. That you're grabbing the rope with us and pulling in the right direction. I would say. I haven't had a lot of thought of it. I just saw this for the first time. I would say to the people in America that are yelling, aren't you glad that you've been afforded the freedom to say whatever you want? Wow. Because the people in Iran, it took

[Josh Howerton]

this time, 40,000 of them got killed.

[David Nassar]

Yeah. When they do that. That's exactly right. And so I'm glad that you have the luxury to. I don't know, that looked like Soros money to me, but let's say it's not. I don't care. Like, whatever it is, aren't you glad that you have that freedom to express your opinion and not have somebody over your shoulder imprisoning you, beating you, torturing you, murdering you, because you have an opinion that doesn't go, you know, well with what they think?

[Josh Howerton]

So what you're helping me understand, makes. Correct me if I'm saying this wrong, is like, if. If somebody took out the top 30 leaders in America, like, we would feel like, bro, you just attacked us.

[David Nassar]

That's right.

[Josh Howerton]

And because there's like a. Hey, man. So, like. No, no, like. Well, in general, people would not be cheering.

[Carlos Arazo]

Yeah.

[Josh Howerton]

If somebody. But what you're saying is, hey, man, the. There is a massive radical disconnect between general populace of Iran and the dictatorial leadership of Iran. That's what you're saying.

[David Nassar]

If four bad guys came into your home and held your family hostage and somebody with a sniper gun took out two of the bad guys, I'm not like, hey, why'd you shoot someone in my house? I'd be like, thank you so much. Now, I. So that's the sentiment. Now, that said, you gotta understand the Iranian people. And again, I'm speaking collectively for over seven years. Yes, of course, they have the heart of a lion. They can take that lion off the flag, but they ain't taking it off the spirit of the. Especially the women in Iran. They are ruthless. They are lionesses, bro.

[Josh Howerton]

I've seen some videos, bro. They know Joke over there.

[David Nassar]

They were going to do this, and you got to understand. So this was going to happen, but now it's happening faster. Now it's like, that's why you're hearing, thank you, President Trump. You know, and I think in years to come, it'll be, we'll see. We'll see. I could be wrong. What do I know? I'm just some short dude living in Tennessee. But I think in years to come, we'll look at this moment in the Iranian history, and I think you'll see this as a moment where there will be. There will be statues. I think in years to come, this will be a great moment of alliance between them. There'll be so much gratitude shown, because the three feelings I had that day when I'm seeing all this go down is I'm terrified for my family. I want swift justice minimized. I want the least amount. I've got a cousin who's got Ms. In Iran. She has no electricity. She's already not healthy. So how do we get her. Her out of this tyrant grip? Right? So I'm terrified for them. I'm exhilaratingly saying, this is what we've been praying for. And I also feel gratitude for the people that are coming to help us.

[Josh Howerton]

Yeah, that's amazing.

[David Nassar]

Yeah.

[Josh Howerton]

Okay, so, like, let me just. If you don't got anything to say to this, that's fine, but I think there's factions in American politics that are like, hey, man. They're. They're looking at our administration and going like, hey, man. And by the way, this is not, you know, this. This conversation is not a commercial for the administration. I'm just trying to verbalize something. So, like, I think there's a lot of people who are like, ah, man, this administration just needs to stay out of any conflict in. In Iran. What's this gotta. What's this have to do with us at all? You guys are fighting, you know, this kind of language. You're fighting Israel's wars for them. What do you say to that?

[David Nassar]

Yeah, I think, first of all, I get it, man. Like, I've got a 401k plan I'd like to see do well. And I know we're all bracing, so that matters. I think Halliburton stock's gonna do really well if we go to war. I think the banking's out there, so I get all the stuff that people say, and I don't pretend to know all of it. And I don't think anyone is pure in their incredible motives in all of this. There's machismo and this. And. But look, man, I think many people have the luxury of saying, why are we. They're saying that's unnecessary intervention when they're not aware that if you ask the people in Iran, they would say, we feel like this was a very necessary intervention. And I would even take it further and say, not just necessary intervention as it relates to the people in Iran getting a chance for liberation, but necessary intervention for my kids and my grandbabies in Tennessee, your family here in Texas. Because what people don't sometimes Forget is for 47 years, Iran has been waging war against America.

[Josh Howerton]

Yes. Right. That's death to America, all this. Yes.

[David Nassar]

They've shown their policy.

[Josh Howerton]

Stated policy.

[David Nassar]

Yeah. We always say, when somebody keeps yelling, death to America, are you going to start believing? And so for 47 years, whether it was the hostages, whether it was September 11th and the way they funded. Right. The Taliban, whether it was Hezbollah, whether it was the bombing in Beirut where over 200 innocent Americans were murdered and they funded that, whether it's. And so for 47 years, Iran has been waging war against this nation.

[Josh Howerton]

Yeah, there you go.

[David Nassar]

And so a safer Iran is not just a safer Iran, it's a safer Tennessee.

[Josh Howerton]

That's interesting.

[David Nassar]

And so at what point are we going to look at this and say, this isn't us waging war, this is us actually stopping the inevitable? And so when a nation who's been told, look, you're saying you're just enriching uranium for power so that people can get their lights on, nobody believes that. And then literally, literally, United States often offers. Let's get out our calculator and see how much energy that is supposed to produce. We will, in perpetuity. This is what America offered. We will, in perpetuity, give you that power.

[Josh Howerton]

It's like we called their buff. Yeah, we called them.

[David Nassar]

And then they were like, no, thank you. At what point do people get their head out of the sand, pun intended, you know what I mean? And go, come on, man. And so I don't understand why somebody. Somebody would say, why are we going over there and fighting a fight that's not our own? These people want you dead. These people want you unsafe. These people want to destroy your life. And they will do everything and anything to do that. And so why would we not proactively minimize. Now, that said, I don't think this is going to turn into. I hope not, I pray not. I don't think this is going to be Afghanistan. I don't think this is going to be Vietnam. I think America, I think President Trump's made it very clear our job, for lack of better terms, is some air war.

[Josh Howerton]

That's right, the ground war.

[David Nassar]

This is your good fight to be. That's right. And so we're gonna prime the pump, and hopefully you'll go fight the good fight. So I think my prayer is that this doesn't turn into something more. I'm also not so naive as to think that people won't benefit if it turns into a war. I'm also not so naive to think that we got midterms coming on, and maybe some people don't want this to be a win for Trump. And also I'm not so naive as to think that all the people that are into this are doing it for the purest thing of liberating a people. It's complicated. It's complicated. But in the midst of all this complication, all this chatter and people's opinions who don't know, you think because your text speed and what's going on, you know, because you know, America's just turned into Team Candace versus Team Erica. Team this. Versus, like, you don't know. I don't know. We don't know. But here's what. In the middle of all this, it's fine to have that dialogue and to seek understanding. I'm not telling you not to. Christians need to walk into that and understand. As long as we understand these things, we don't know for sure what we do know that we know that we know that we know that we know above the sun. Solomon's under the sun. Above the sun. What we do know is that right now, what has been stubbed behind the wall in Iran, what has been primed already, is the single fastest growing church in the world.

[Josh Howerton]

I want to get to this.

[David Nassar]

The secret church in Iran, who could literally see this moment be where if a theocracy becomes a democracy, they no longer have to be the secret church. They can rise up and they can. This could be their finest hour.

[Josh Howerton]

That's right. That's right.

[David Nassar]

So that's what I do know.

[Josh Howerton]

Okay, I want to get to that, because that's what a lot. Honestly, I didn't know this. I didn't know this until very recently that there's, like a massive spiritual awakening happening in Iran. So let's go into some of this real quick. So, like, again, I'm backing up the dumb, dumb American kid real quick. So, like, I started seeing stuff like this. Go and put that picture up this Made no sense to me. I'm the dumb American kid. I always thought, oh, I would hear Iran. And I was thinking, oh, there's all Muslims over there. And then if you're just listening, you're not on YouTube. It's like I started seeing these signs are apparently like becoming a thing.

[David Nassar]

Yeah.

[Josh Howerton]

So if you can't see it, it says, I am not Muslim, I am Persian. I hate Islam. Okay, so help me understand. I just always thought, oh, dude, they're all Muslims over there. Talk real quick. Before we talk about the growth the American or growth of the underground church there, talk real quick about the religious and spiritual dynamics over there.

[David Nassar]

Well, let me just kind of ask it this way. Like, how is religion working out for you? Like, that's what people found out. So. So the revolution happens 47 years ago. And imagine the majority of the overwhelming majority of that nation weren't even alive when that revolution happened. Right? So to them, all they've known are sanctions and oppression. And, you know, they've got all the same problems we got. And so. Except, you know, highly oppressed nation. Right. And poverty and heroin addiction. And if you struggle with same sex attraction, you can't even talk to someone about it or whatever. You know, like their attitude is like, we had seven gay people, we killed them, we have no more problem. You know, like, that's, you know what I mean? Like, so that's, that's the level by which a human being who's going, I don't even know who to talk to, what's going on. So Iran has been so under oppression for so long. So I would say, say most young people in Iran are not devout Muslims. They're actually just the distaste that they have for that regime. And they're kind of secular.

[Josh Howerton]

Okay, see, I didn't know that.

[David Nassar]

Secular.

[Josh Howerton]

I didn't know that.

[David Nassar]

Now you can't speak for everybody. Again, each their own, but I would say a lot of them are that.

[Josh Howerton]

So the leadership was aggressively Islamic, correct?

[David Nassar]

Yes. And officially as of this minute, they stopped. Still are still there. Like, we haven't officially, Lord willing, we'll be able to see a democracy. But yes, they are. Like, again, like in America, we have a separation of church and state.

[Josh Howerton]

That's not a thing. That's not a thing.

[David Nassar]

The church is not church. The church is the governance. So it's like, it's not. Islam is not just a religion, it's an ideology and it's actually governance.

[Josh Howerton]

That's exactly right.

[David Nassar]

As a matter of fact, Islam is about 1400 years old.

[Josh Howerton]

Old.

[David Nassar]

It started with one. It started in one nation, Saudi Arabia. Today it is 47 nations. Let me just throw this in for free. And they want more nations, of course. You don't think the wars that are coming, you don't think every mosque, every. Like, they have a strategy, by the way. I don't blame someone for having a strategy. We as Christians have a strategy to eventually, the difference between us is we are incarnational. They are lies. We take over. We make it the law.

[Josh Howerton]

And this is what you're supposed to do.

[David Nassar]

That's exactly right. And so the people of Iran in this moment, Josh, I think, have a real distaste. And I'm speaking again, broadly. Again, people are going to probably email go. That's not how I feel. Sure. But overwhelmingly, they have a real distaste for religion.

[Josh Howerton]

Okay.

[David Nassar]

Matter of fact, that's. Think about this sentence. Some of the most troubled places in the world are some of the most religious. Yeah. So the people in Iran, in one of the most religious regions in the entire world are. They have. They're so done with religion, but they're so open to redemption.

[Josh Howerton]

All right, let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. So, like, here's some other stuff that, like, blew my mind. So go to that next video Trinity. So let's play this. You. You tell people what we're seeing real quick. Do you?

[David Nassar]

I do. Badly. But yeah. They're singing Waymaker.

[Josh Howerton]

So these are Iranian Christians. That's what they're saying. And they're saying a Waymaker. Okay. So this is right after the strikes. So this is an Iranian curse of church, by the way. I just, like, wept. I legit. Like, when I saw this, I, like, wept my desk. So then this is a Gospel Coalition article from a few years ago. So I'm catching people who are listening up to the. So the story of Iran's church in two sentences. And then I won't read this whole article, obviously, but, like, here's one.

[David Nassar]

Mark Howard's great. Yeah.

[Josh Howerton]

So this. Oh, Mark Howard's great. I haven't met Mark. So this is a picture of an Iranian Christian baptism service underground church there. And then here's. I'm going to read one quote from this article. More Iranians have become Christians in the last 20 years.

[David Nassar]

Years.

[Josh Howerton]

Dude, I get emotional reading this.

[David Nassar]

Yes, this is true.

[Josh Howerton]

Than in the previous 13 centuries combined.

[David Nassar]

Come on, bro.

[Josh Howerton]

Oh, my gosh. Okay, so let me ask this question. So again, a lot of American Christians think, oh, everybody is Muslim in Iran, but there's a lot of videos like that of Iranian Christians. What you tell. You tell us. Give us a postage stamp version. What's going on with the Iranian. With the Christian church in Iran, man.

[David Nassar]

The church in Iran again, we know it to be our friends at Open Door, Voice of the Martyrs, people who are in the trenches empowering the church, advocating for the church, convoy Pope, great organizations that no one knows for sure because it's an underground church. Like, you guys have a database and an app for your. You can tell like somebody's telling you this many people came on a Sunday. These are underground churches on purpose. There's no networking, there's no paper, there's no Excel sheet. We believe conservatively. Conservatively, 5 million.

[Josh Howerton]

Out of how many? Total population?

[David Nassar]

90 million, bro.

[Josh Howerton]

That's a lot.

[David Nassar]

That's a good percent. We believe the actual number might be up to 9 to 10 million believers are right now. And most of them young converts, most of them thriving. And what God is doing there is the ultimate. The ultimate Operation Fury Force or whatever they're called. What he's been doing is not like we're doing the air war. He has been in the ground war and he got no reason to come back. And so God has already got his church primed there. So think about this. What if? What if. And while I got you, I'll just put you on record here. What if Lake Point, one of the greatest churches in the world right now, I'd like to sign you on the

[Josh Howerton]

title line, is a deal maker.

[David Nassar]

What if in three years, what if, in five months, what if, whatever that moment is, what if your church said, hey, let's listen. We have brothers and sisters. The church in Iran needs to have the global church. We are going to partner with a city in Iran and we are going to equip them to do the work of ministry. And so what if the church in Iran in the next few weeks. Because think about. Do you remember. Do you realize the trauma of the bombings and the torture and the hurt, Every one of these women, courageous women and what's. But they've been the tip of the spear. So do you realize, so what. What if the church in Iran became the number one counseling arm to help people through Christ? What if to celebrate recovery became a biblical way to do addiction? What if we help people with marriages? What if people were cutting up their credit card, getting their first one ever and then cutting up with Ramsey over there? So what if we equip them? And what if the most dangerous country in the world right now, the Number one Equipper, funder of terrorism in the world, stayed the most dangerous country in the world, but he became the most dangerous country in the world, as in, we're advancing the gospel in the world

[Josh Howerton]

injected into my veins.

[David Nassar]

So I think God can do it. Can I tell you something? When you showed me that Waymaker Media. Saturday, Saturday, I'm. I get up, I see the news, and, you know, my. I'm like, they're one Iranian friend. A lot of my buddies have. Right?

[Josh Howerton]

So, I mean, hey, that's why I called you.

[David Nassar]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. I wish you'd gotten. You could do a lot better than me, but I'm the one guy, you know, so, like, my phone's blowing up and people haven't heard from whenever, you know, like, hey, man, what's going on, bro? We got you.

[Paul Cunningham]

Come on, dude.

[Josh Howerton]

Do all your friends sound like me?

[David Nassar]

Yeah, a lot of my friends are like. My friends aren't saying, like, go Trump. Or they're like, roll Tide. Like, come on. You know, one of my friends is like, auburn lost. You know, Iran won. It's a good weekend. I'm like, let's go. Anyway, so my phone's blowing up. I'm side stage at a conference. It's a local one in, you know, in Spring Hill. So I got college students, high school students, and. And my phone's just going. And you know how you preach like, you got your microphone, you got your Bible, but your phone keeps going crazy.

[Josh Howerton]

Yeah, dude, that happened me two weeks

[David Nassar]

ago, and it's my fault. Like, why would I not have it? So I take my phone, I put it to the corner. I'm behind the LED walls, and I'm hearing it. And in my mind, I thought, I've got to quit thinking about Iran for a second. And I got session two. I got to get up there and preach this text. So. And so I thought, I'm going to close my eyes and stop thinking about Iran, bro. I closed my eyes, and I feel like God gave me a picture. God gave me a vision. And as soon as I closed my eyes, I saw a soccer stadium full of high school and college kids singing. Your name is the highest. Your name is the greatest. Your name stands thinking about no dominion, no power. And these people know about dominion and power because they had a monarchy that didn't do right. They had a theocracy that didn't do right. And they don't even really need a democracy. They need revival. That's right.

[Paul Cunningham]

That's right.

[David Nassar]

And I thought if you told me two Months ago that, that is a vision of what could happen. I'd be like, that's not a vision, that's a fantasy. There's no way in Iran, in a soccer stadium, Christians are going to say, sing, you know that song, and not go immediately to. But it's. I'm sitting here and I'm like, and

[Josh Howerton]

now it's possible, dude. It's going to be possible, dude. Can you imagine? I'm just like, I'm. I'm dreaming with you.

[David Nassar]

If, like, like the holy roar of the spirit. If you're listening to me right now and you don't believe this, you, you do not know my God.

[Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[David Nassar]

If you told me when I was 18 years old, I got kicked out of the house for becoming a Christian, one day your dad would be a Christian. I'd be like, you don't know my dad, but God was bigger than my wildest dreams. If you told me. I'm saying, if he told me one time that one day this youth pastor doing a small group in Two Rivers Baptist Church would one day we'd be one of God's great generals in his faith right now. I'd be like that guy Josh, Josh Howard. Look, all of us are just like, look what God can do.

[Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[David Nassar]

Hit some pretty good licks with some crooked sticks.

[Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[David Nassar]

If you told me that one day. And by the way, my vision was not that I would be the one speaking sidestage. I think I'll just move some monitors around. I think the kid who, who's probably going to speak at that soccer stadium. Am I old, dude? It's going to be some young, audacious pastor, the Josh Howerton of Iran, Abdul Howerton. All right, he's going to get up there and he's going to do what I can't do, you know, amazing. And he's going to be a brand new believer and he's going to say, I got delivered out of Islam. And so I really believe that now. That said, I don't know. I don't know if that's a vision or a dream or, or, you know, I can tell you I want it

[Josh Howerton]

to be a vision.

[David Nassar]

I've been singing that.

[Josh Howerton]

I want it to be a vision.

[David Nassar]

I've been singing that all weekend.

[Josh Howerton]

I want it to be a vision. Yeah.

[David Nassar]

And that's the one thing we do know as the people of God, that God is up. That's why I took so much time to tell my story in the beginning. That what you saw as A horrible event. Because it was a horrible event. What you saw as like, there was a revolution, a lot of people's lives were at stake and all these things happened and the bloody streets and all that. In the midst of all of that, if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't be in rock while sitting here with you today. You know, championing the gospel, man. And so what the enemy means for evil, God uses for his glory and his our good. And so I believe that right now, I don't know how it's all going to play, but I believe that God has his people and something bigger is going on. So instead of focusing and putting all my energy and all the things I'm not sure about, you know, Tucker tells me one thing and Hannity tells me another. And this one, instead of sure, whatever you want, that's all that. Focus on what you do know.

[Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[David Nassar]

Let that be the biggest thing that's going on in your life. Wake up today as a believer and go, sounds to me like God's up to something massive. And how do I join that?

[Josh Howerton]

Yes, listen, I just want to connect the dots for a listener. If you think it is merely a coincidence that the country in that part of the world that is seeing the greatest uprising of the gospel in that part of the world or the whole world just so happens to be the country that is also potentially being liberal. You have not read your Bible.

[David Nassar]

Exactly.

[Josh Howerton]

You have simply not read your Bible. So, like, listen, there's geopolitical things going on. Even more than that. There is advance of the gospel, kingdom of God, sovereignty of God, things going on. So let me ask, can I please

[David Nassar]

people go, well, the Persian Gulf is why Iran matters even more than, you know, some of these other countries and stuff. Because that is like, that is, they can stop the flow of oil, that's fine. I just want when Christians to hear that and go, nothing will stop the flow of the power of the Holy Spirit coming out of Iran and doing mission work. I'm saying like, again, like, what government can't do, God can. What the enemy means for evil, God can flip the test. God turns. So I've just seen God do the impossible over and over and over again. And so I just, it's fine to be down here, but you got to stick your head up here and go, what's God doing? And how do I join it?

[Josh Howerton]

Get up. Come on, man. So let me ask you this. And you know, I don't know how you going to. You can go whatever you want to oh, no, I don't know.

[David Nassar]

What are you going to.

[Josh Howerton]

No. So like, so like, like Muslims convert into Christ. So like.

[David Nassar]

Yeah. All right.

[Josh Howerton]

One of our international mission partners with Lake Point is a dude in Ghana. His dad was an imam in Ghana. Like, it's 90% Islamic country. And you hear these stories. This literally happened to this guy that is our mission partner where he's like, he's a faithful Muslim and he has a dream. And there's all these stories about the in white dude. I get emotional talking about it. It's like act literally acts. Two young men will see visions. Old men will dream dreams.

[David Nassar]

That's right.

[Josh Howerton]

And you know.

[David Nassar]

Yeah, I mean.

[Josh Howerton]

Yeah, exactly.

[David Nassar]

Young man. And.

[Josh Howerton]

Oh, all right. So then like, literally there's these stories list. A lot of people listen don't know this. There's these stories all over the world. Just like our international mission partner in Ghana who like a faithful Muslim goes to sleep and they have a dream. These stories of the man in white. The man in white appeared to me. I get emotional talking about it because, you know, it's like this book of revelation. Yeah, it's like literally Book of revelation. The man in white appeared to our international mission partner in Ghana and tells him that he is Jesus Christ, that he is the way, the truth and the life. Dude leaves his faith, leaves his family, gives his life to Jesus, gave a new family in the people of God. And now he's church planner in Ghana, you know, under three threat of persecution and death.

[David Nassar]

Amazing.

[Josh Howerton]

So talk like, what's the deal? What's the deal with the. The man in white stuff? Muslims coming to Christ. Talk. Talk about that real quick, man.

[David Nassar]

God's. It's not that. God's not. God's thinking, if my church won't do it, I'll do it. God's like, we're doing this together. We're in part. You get. You have the privilege of partnering with me and people are. Jesus is appearing to people all over the Middle east and he is tenderizing the heart of people. But. And Jesus does a niche, but he's letting his. He's gifting the people the opportunity to then like, in one sense close the deal. You know what I mean? I have a friend, his name, he sells. He sells metal. I say he sells, but he's very well, he's very wealthy. So he flies first class to Dubai, first class, all over the Middle east, and does what he does for a living. But he was going to retire, but then he realized, oh, man, they're paying me all this money to go advanced, evangelized on their dime. So he just decided to get really intentional and just start sharing the gospel. Well, he's been working with this one guy in Dubai, his family, every time he gets there, he goes and stays at a bougie hotel, and they have a fat steak, and they get to know each other well. He's been praying like, God, give me an inroad to this guy. Give me this guy. So he. He goes over there, he gets to the hotel, and the guy calls him and says, hey, I can't come to you, but why don't you come to our home? So all the. All these years they've known each other, he's never been invited in. So he's like, oh. So he's like, I'm driving in now, so I'll meet you there. So he gets in a. Get a car. They take him up, take him to the house. He beats the guy to his own house. And he knocks on. He doesn't know this. He knocks on the door. Maid comes up, he says, I'm the guest. They're like, of course. They bring him in the living room. He's sitting in this beautiful home of this Muslim family, devout Muslim family. And the husband hasn't come home yet. The wife comes down to greet him, be hospitable. And as soon as she sees him, she just. She just kind of like freaks for a second, Turns around and runs out. So he's like, did I offend her? I don't know the rule. Like, was I supposed to make eye. I know I'm not supposed to shake hands, but like, what did I do? And so he's just nervous, like, what did I do? The husband comes home and he's like, where's my wife? Welcome. And he's like, I think he's. I might have accidentally offended her because she came, but she turned around and husband goes upstairs. They're gone for about 10 minutes. He comes down and he says, hey, I want my wife to tell you what she just told me. And the wife said, I've been having dreams with a man in a white row who's been coming to me. And he told me that someone from America with a beard is going to come to your house and he's going to talk to. To you about me. And when he does, I need you to listen. And then you came to my house. And so the guy's like, apparently we need to listen. I don't care what kind of sermon illustration you got. I don't care what Kind of led wall you got going. God don't need what he can do to soften the hearts of his people. And God doesn't even need my friend to share the to be. He just let him have the gift.

[Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[David Nassar]

Single greatest thing that's ever happened to MJ was not like, I sold a ton of metal. Was like, I went there and what I thought I couldn't do, God was like, you can't do, but we.

[Josh Howerton]

Come on, man.

[David Nassar]

And so God is doing that everywhere, where people are, like, getting together and they're going, I had a dream, and I had a dream, and I had a dream and I had a dream. And they're like, what was your dream? And in the. And they're all like, well, apparently something bigger is going. So, again, either all of this is real, or it's like three songs and a TED talk. You know, that's why church is. Or God is actually real. He's actually on the move. He's actually changing the lives of people all over the world. And I think where there is desperation for him, where there is a lack of all the things we've been afforded here, the signs and wonders are on full tilt. They're on all caps. And I think God is doing those things right now in the Middle east to continue to draw the attention for something bigger.

[Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[David Nassar]

And here's what's so weird about that. I don't think it's just about the Middle East. It's not lost on me as I'm telling you this, that God actually sent me from the 1040 window to come and be an evangelist to a major America. I'm the missionary sent here. Wow. Like, my crowd is not the Iranian crowd. My crowd is not the Middle Eastern crowd. You know what I'm saying? Like, I speak to soccer moms, dumb Kentucky kids. Yeah.

[Josh Howerton]

You know what I'm saying?

[David Nassar]

I tell cynical jokes and read the Bible and tell. You know, it's like my crowd is like, you know, the college students in America, you know, like. But so it's not lost on me that God is going to, I think, out of the Middle east, possibly through this, send missionary throughout the world that will tell these stories of what. Look, what God did that will stir the affections of people that are like, is God real? And they'll be like, I can't contend with that story.

[Josh Howerton]

That's right. I mean, what are you going to do with that?

[David Nassar]

So I think God all over the world is doing that. And you've got a Guy in your church. That's not a story. That's a person. You know, I know my friend who's saying he did for me what I couldn't have not done.

[Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[David Nassar]

The acceleration of that relationship where Jesus is like, he's going to come to your house, and when he does, you need to listen to what he has to say about you.

[Josh Howerton]

That's right. That's right.

[David Nassar]

If that's not softball teed up, ain't nothing.

[Josh Howerton]

Yeah. Nothing.

[David Nassar]

And at that moment, all he's got to do is hold two things at once. The blood of the lamb, the word of his testimony, revelation.

[Josh Howerton]

David Nasser. Thank you. Will you pray not just for us, but for the people of Iran? Yeah. Yeah. Would you do that, please,

[David Nassar]

Lord, you know them by name? I don't know most of them by name. You're so amazing. You know the name of every single person that you died for. Thank you. That God, you so love them that you gave your one and only son, that if they believe in you, they will not perish but have eternal life. Thank you, Jesus, that you. My heart beats fast for them. But your heart continues to beat fast forward. I'm prone to wander weeks like this. I'm just kind of thinking a lot about Iran. But you've never stopped thinking a lot about Iran. And so we pray in your accordance what we want, you want more. And we pray, God, that you would save Iranians. Thank you, Lord, that Islam is evil, but Muslims, Muslims are your prize, right? Thank you, Lord, that you so love them that you gave yourself for him, Jesus. Thank you. And so we pray that Muslims who are held hostage by this religion would be set free. They'd find you. They'd find relationships with you, that relationship with you that would mark them forever. And that they would be sent out, God, to do the stuff that Josh and I could never do. So we pray for revival for Iran, Lord. Would you do it, God? Thank you, Lord, that right now you're working. And we pray, God, for their protection, their provision. Lord, thank you for how this is also going to be about an opportunity to evangelize Iranians and people from Pakistan and people from Kurdish families that have moved here. This is going to be an opportunity, God, a talking point for people to. In a neighborhood in Texas, in Tennessee, talk to people from the Middle East. And so I pray people and people in America would come to know you that have come here because of what you're doing. Well, we love you. We need you. Thank you, God. Without you, we have no hope. But with you, we come with this confidence. I pray that as you send your sheep among wolves, your secret church, Lord, that you would let them be able to be wise as a serpent, gentle as a. A dove. They'd carry themselves well.

[Josh Howerton]

Protect my.

[David Nassar]

Thank you, Lord. Amen.

[Josh Howerton]

Amen. Thank you, David Nesser.

[David Nassar]

I love you, buddy. Thanks for letting me be on.

[Josh Howerton]

Love you so. All right, so here's the tinfoil hat question. We off air. We started talking about this. Like, let's splice this in.

[David Nassar]

Yeah.

[Josh Howerton]

All right. So a lot of people, particularly people who are like. And this is a theology nerd thing, just go with me here real quick. Particularly from the eschatological conviction. That is kind of like the George Ladd historic premill, that kind of thing. Inaugurated esology. O. Okay. Inaugurate eschatology. So a lot of people go, hey, man, if I'm reading Ezekiel 38 and 39, right, it's doing the Gog Magog thing and all that stuff. And then it mentions Persia, and obviously, as we've just covered, Persia equals modern day Iran.

[David Nassar]

That's right.

[Josh Howerton]

So let me just ask you, and I don't know how you're going to answer this. You can take whatever direction you want, or you can say, I got no. Can I show my cards?

[David Nassar]

Is he post mill? Is he pre trib?

[Josh Howerton]

Wherever you want to go. I don't care. I don't care. So let me ask this question, because I think a lot of Christians are legit asking this question. Question is war in Iran. Do any of these events in your mind signal a potential eschatological event or chain of events? How do you think about it as, oh, by the way, by the way, for listeners, when I say eschatological, that's a big, fancy theological word for end times.

[David Nassar]

End times. Yeah, man. Short answer is nobody knows but the one who knows, and he's told us, when you think you know, you don't know, then who do you think you are? However, that doesn't mean that we take our. Like, I stood at Mount Magido. You stood there before. I'm sure I stood there and I. I literally, I literally got my. It's the only one, Only time I've ever gotten my compass out of my, like, oh, there's a compass on my phone. I wanted to see where's Iran? And I was like, this is not a supposed site. There will be the battle here. And when Jesus comes back, he ain't going to be humble. Jesus born in the manger. It's going to be On a white

[Josh Howerton]

horse, tattoo on his thigh, sword out of his mouth.

[David Nassar]

Yeah, this is like lock and load. And this is where it's gonna, you know, this is God's promise. This is not a. This is gonna happen.

[Josh Howerton]

So wait, before you go further, I

[David Nassar]

was like, where's Iran coming? Cause in my mind it's always been Iran is going to. Scripture tells Iran will play a role in being a coalition against Israel. However, I also feel like I was side stage the other day and I had a vision that God might let this be. So here's the short answer. I don't. I don't know. But I do know one thing. I don't know. But in the meanwhile, I want to win as many. I don't know what Iran is going to do as a government. I want Iranians.

[Josh Howerton]

Come on, man.

[David Nassar]

I'm not sure what side America will be on. I want Americans. And I'll tell you this. I don't know. But I know I don't know the final score. I just know we freaking win.

[Josh Howerton]

Yes. Right.

[David Nassar]

I don't know whether we're going to win by 20 or whether we win by four. I don't know. So I don't know the final score, but I read the end of my book. Every nation, every tongue, every tribe. There'll be Persians there. I can tell you one. Queen Esther, a Persian queen. She'll be there. So, like, I know that in the end we're going to win and Iranians will be on the winning side. So it won't be about their nationality. That will determine. By the way, same for our friends in Israel.

[Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[David Nassar]

It won't be about their nationality. Same for our friends in America. Listening to me? That's right. There is no salvation. This is the greatest country in the world, but it's not going to find your salvation. Your ultimate citizenship is the eternal citizenship in the kingdom of God. So I'm saying to you, care about it, Read about it, Come up. I have my leanings. Slightly more reformed. Like you can do that.

[Josh Howerton]

I'm ill. You got. I'm a lot of reform guys that I'm ill. Oh, you don't want to do it.

[David Nassar]

I don't want to get mail. But people, young people with fuzz on their antlers who just want to beat up. No, thank you. Anyway.

[Josh Howerton]

That's fair.

[David Nassar]

Yeah, with tinfoils, anyway. Whatever you say, man. Here's what I do, though. I don't know how a. Exactly, but I know Iran will play a part in it because scripture says it and that's good enough for me.

[Josh Howerton]

Are you talking about Ezekiel 38, 39? Yeah.

[David Nassar]

Yes. I don't know what all that means. I just know at the end we win. And I don't even know when that is. And Scripture tells me I don't exactly. But I have an urgency, as you can sense it.

[Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[David Nassar]

I feel wired up, bro.

[Josh Howerton]

Yeah.

[David Nassar]

You know what I mean? Like, as you can tell, we're normally more chill. I'm like, leaning in because my heart's beating fast right now. So in this urgency, see, I don't want to waste the day. I want to see as many Iranians at the feet of Jesus as possible, not the nation. So rather than nation counting, I like the one citizenship that matters. Like, not everybody listening to me. And this is not against. I love America. Not everybody listening to me. Everybody listening to me. One day you'll no longer be an American.

[Josh Howerton]

Of course. Yes.

[David Nassar]

But one day you'll either be a Kingdom center citizen or you'll be. So that is the ultimate allegiance that we have. Matter of fact, the most beautiful thing you can do for this nation is to not worship it, to put it in its proper place and say it is the greatest country. Because sometimes people. I was talking to a guy, this nation, he was a Navy seal. This nation let him down. He feels. And I don't know his complete story, but. But I kind of spoke into his life and said, bro, maybe the reason you feel this way and you have a hard time trusting this nation you feel bitter about is because you made too much of it and didn't have it in its proper place. Because I'm just telling you it's a demonic.

[Josh Howerton]

Whatever you idolize, you'll eventually demonize.

[David Nassar]

That's right. It's high honor, high shame. Should have never. And so I think in Iran, there are Iranians who need to be on the right side in Israel. So I'm not telling you. Like, I don't care about the answer. You should care about the answer, but not at the expense of how many Iranians can get there.

[Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[David Nassar]

How many people from India can get there.

[Josh Howerton]

But, you know, to dovetail, what is it? What Dave is mentioning is in Ezekiel 38 and 39, I think it's fair to say most Bible scholars view that as a second coming. There's like a prophetic foreshortening thing, dual fulfillment kind of thing, and that it specifically does mention Persia.

[David Nassar]

That's right. In Ezekiel 38, it's clear as day.

[Josh Howerton]

It's right there There it is. Yeah, it's right. So that there will be something out of the nation of Iran towards Israel that will culminate in return of Christ. That's how a lot of people interpret that passage.

[David Nassar]

But at the end of the day, how many national championships has Kentucky won?

[Josh Howerton]

7.

[David Nassar]

Do you know the score of all those games?

[Josh Howerton]

Sure don't know.

[David Nassar]

Who cares? It's seven. I'm Bama fan. We are by far the greatest team in college football ever. How many national football championships has Kentucky won?

[Josh Howerton]

Zero.

[David Nassar]

That's easy. Anyway, so.

[Josh Howerton]

So, you jerk. You're never allowed back on.

[David Nassar]

So? So I don't remember one of the scores. What I remember is how many skins we put on.

[Josh Howerton]

I was wrong, bro. It's eight. We've won eight.

[David Nassar]

Well, you probably.

[Josh Howerton]

We got the Anthony Davis.

[David Nassar]

So what matters is like, you know what I'm saying? We get caught up. Because here's the thing, man, life is full of. You're as Christians, we're war already won. Even though we'll lose some battles.

[Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[David Nassar]

That's right. And so we get caught up in the score. And I'm not telling people not to care and not to lean and not to have urgency. But your urgency can't be. This feels like modern time. And your urgency has to be. I just. The Lord told me to evangelize.

[Josh Howerton]

Evangelism. That's the energy.

[David Nassar]

It's the Great Commission.

[Josh Howerton]

That's it.

[David Nassar]

Yeah.

[Josh Howerton]

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some say, as some count slowness. But he is patient, not wishing that any should perish.

[David Nassar]

Are we going to Iran? You and me?

[Josh Howerton]

Huh?

[David Nassar]

We're going to Iran, bro.

[Josh Howerton]

You call. You call me.

[David Nassar]

I'm serious.

[Josh Howerton]

You call me. I would love to.

[David Nassar]

I would.

[Josh Howerton]

If I can figure it out, I would legit love to go.

[David Nassar]

Can I tell you something? Saturday, I met that conference bro.

[Josh Howerton]

Yeah.

[David Nassar]

By the way, you're one of the ones who texted me Saturday morning. Hey buddy, what's up? So Saturday, my phone's blowing up.

[Josh Howerton]

My token Iranian friend.

[David Nassar]

Yeah. You're my favorite already. Thank you. I'm the only.

[Josh Howerton]

You're my guy.

[David Nassar]

Yeah. So we've been talking for 11 months to do a movie and I can't get these people to stick to landing. Cuz I don't have. Like, I don't have. I can. I don't have a big. So I'm a nobody. You know what I mean?

[Josh Howerton]

That's not true.

[David Nassar]

So like they're like, ah, we. We're thinking about doing this movie of course, on Saturday, they're waking up seeing this, and then all of a sudden, and they're like, let's do a movie. Because, God, they're smart enough to go

[Josh Howerton]

like, this is a movie about your life.

[David Nassar]

Yes.

[Josh Howerton]

Yeah, it's awesome. Let's do a movie about Same people that did. I can only imagine.

[David Nassar]

So I have a book called Jumping Through Fires where I share my testimony. And so they're like, let's tell this story in a redemptive way. The gospel. So Scott Brickell, who is the manager for Marcimi, is, like, doing the contract for this thing. So he and I are sitting. Saturday at night, he and I are sitting in the parking lot of this church because I'm done with the morning conferences. And he said, wouldn't it be amazing if you and some of your friends and me and Bart and all of us, wouldn't it be amazing if we had two movie premieres? He said, we had one up here in Nashville when the movie comes out. And then we went to Iran, and we had a movie premiere in Iran. And full circle for me, you go back and share the gospel with your story. So I was wondering if you want to come with me.

[Josh Howerton]

Do it, Lord. I'll come if I can come. I'm. I'm in.

[David Nassar]

Let's get a plane.

[Josh Howerton]

And I'm in. Okay, that's it. Great.