Cheryl Strayed, Skyler Higley, and Patterson Hood

Summary

Live Wire with Luke Burbank
Episode: Cheryl Strayed, Skyler Higley, and Patterson Hood
Date: May 1, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this lively and diverse episode, host Luke Burbank welcomes acclaimed author Cheryl Strayed to discuss her latest podcast about women who conquer physical challenges; stand-up comic Skyler Higley, who riffs on everything from milk conspiracies to racial identity; and musician Patterson Hood, who performs a moving, autobiographical song about childhood and obsession. The episode blends inspiration, humor, deep insight, and memorable music—offering listeners “late-night for radio” energy, sincere wisdom, and plenty of laughs.

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Key Segments & Highlights

[04:16] Best News We Heard All Week

Hosts: Luke Burbank & Elena Passarello

• Elena shares a medical miracle: A man in China with 20-year hiccups is finally cured by numbing and stimulating his neck muscles. She also swears by her own hiccup remedy, involving sugar, bitters, and lime—though ultimately claims method acting the experience does the trick.

  • “Let me tell you. Listen to this...you just have to method act, pretend to do it...this was 15 years ago that I started doing this, and it’s cured every hiccups that I have had since.” — Elena Passarello [06:24]

• Luke debunks a turtle death hoax: The world’s oldest tortoise, Jonathan, lives on despite online reports to the contrary—highlighting the internet's penchant for misinformation and the resilience of a 193-year-old reptile.

  • “Jonathan is alive, which is pretty awesome....They think he was 50 when they brought him to St. Helena in 1882.” — Luke Burbank [08:29]

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[11:06] Interview: Cheryl Strayed

Topic: Podcast “Mind Over Mountain”—Women’s strength, stories, and sport

Main Discussion Points

• Inspiration behind “Mind Over Mountain”:

  • Cheryl interviews women athletes and adventurers, focusing not on technical achievements but on inner journeys of courage, resilience, and strength.
  • “I’m more interested in the journey within...how it was that they mustered the courage, the resilience and the strength it takes to be epic, really, with your body.” — Cheryl Strayed [11:33]

• Personal background:

  • Cheryl shares that her own strength began with punishing but rewarding youth cross-country experiences. Emphasizes that self-challenge is about perseverance over athletic prowess.
  • “It doesn’t matter if I win this thing. What matters is that I do it. And doing it is actually such a powerful lesson...” — Cheryl Strayed [14:04]

• Parallels between sport and writing:

  • The effort, persistence, and self-reliance learned from physical challenges spills over into creative and personal life.
  • “I think even the champions, the things they do in their sport spill over into the other things that they're also trying to do...” — Cheryl Strayed [15:36]
  • Topics with athletes often turn deeper, addressing grief, loss, and personal battles beyond competition.

• Interview with Heather Anderson:

  • Anderson, record-breaking hiker, exemplifies courage not as fearlessness but as embracing and acting despite fear.
  • “Anyone who tells the truth about courage is talking about embracing fear....There is no way to be brave without being terrified.” — Cheryl Strayed [20:48]

• Advice columns meet athletic inspiration:

  • Athletes guest-answer “Dear Sugar” questions, showing empathy and wisdom beyond physicality. Cheryl aims to revise the stories we tell about women’s strength and possibility.
  • “We have to always remember that we have the power...Am I going to be a loving force in the world?...Yes, yes, yes, yes.” — Cheryl Strayed [29:09]

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “When do I say, ‘strong, strong, strong’? When I feel weak, weak, weak. And this is how we survive.” — Cheryl Strayed [24:45]
• “I treasure those things because I learned the lesson you learn the hard way, is the lesson you never forget. And the only way that that's possible is if you let yourself make mistakes and you let yourself be a novice and you let yourself be an idiot.” — Cheryl Strayed [27:35]
• Luke reflects on tattoos and embracing imperfection:
  “I would like to be somebody who’s able to do stuff, even if I don’t know if I’m going to agree with it later on and not be paralyzed by the sense that I might regret something.” — Luke Burbank [26:28]
• Cheryl on moving beyond despair:
  “If we do [positive acts] collectively, we make a difference in the world.” [29:09]

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[31:48] Stand-Up Comedy: Skyler Higley

Key Routines

• America’s oddities:

  • Critiques the Pledge of Allegiance as indoctrination; lampoons the lack of presidential flair.

    • “Why is the president always just some guy?...Where is our President Mysterion?” — Skyler Higley [33:22]

• Milk Conspiracy:

  • Explores his “lactonormative society” conspiracy:
    • "America loves milk so much, we used to have entire men. They used to get dressed up in little outfits...and they would come over to your house and deliver your milk. And you’d be like, thank you for your service."
  • Skewers false “Got Milk” ad claims and ponders “big dairy’s” influence.
    • “I drank the white man’s milk. My bones are mid at best.” [35:13]
    • “What demographic gets paid the least?...Women of color. WOC. Flip that backwards. What’s that spell?...Think about it.” [36:18]

• Adoption & Race:

  • Jokes about growing up Black and adopted in Utah.
    • “I have parents who are whites. Sorry, I meant to say the enemy.” [36:40]
  • Witty retelling of teaching a racial lesson to a white Starbucks customer; connects deeply to experience and humor around identity.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “You can’t invalidate my blackness, ‘cause I got white parents. Think about it. I literally got taken by white people. That’s the blackest thing you can do, really.” [38:12]

• “He didn’t even say anything. He just put his fist up real quick and that was it.” [42:06] — On Black solidarity moment in Starbucks

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[45:10] Interview & Performance: Patterson Hood (with Chris Funk)

Interview Highlights

• Patterson describes years of friendship and collaboration with Chris Funk finally resulting in their joint solo record.

  • “At some point during lockdown, I kind of went through those songs because I was...demoing those songs. I thought, I think we should make this record. So it just finally got to happen.” — Patterson Hood [45:10]

• The solo album unexpectedly became a chronological, autobiographical concept album, chronicling his journey from childhood.

  • “It's when it dawned on me. It's like, holy cow. This, like, tells a very specific story basically from my early childhood until three weeks before my 30th birthday.” — Patterson Hood [46:54]

Musical Performance: “Pinocchio” [48:25]

• Patterson performs “Pinocchio,” the first song in the album’s storyline, inspired by his childhood obsession with the Disney film.
  • “I learned at a really early age all about, like, bad reviews.” — Patterson Hood [47:21]
• The song explores longing, imagination, imperfection, and the bittersweet process of growing up and striving for truth.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “I've always been so acutely aware of how important it is that we revise the stories we tell about ourselves and in this case, the stories we tell about the strength and power of women.” — Cheryl Strayed [03:34]
• “There is no way to live life without suffering, without also, in that suffering, seeing the tremendous beauty that is life.” — Cheryl Strayed [20:48]
• “If you’re having a hard time, just say, strong, strong, strong.” — Luke Burbank [30:03]
• “America, we take kids in school and we make them say the Pledge of Allegiance. That's weird. That's kind of culty.” — Skyler Higley [32:13]
• “Life's a hard lesson but it's always teaching / Arms ain't long enough but they're always reaching...” — Patterson Hood, lyrics from “Pinocchio” [48:35]

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Important Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------|------------| | Best News We Heard All Week | 04:16 | | Cheryl Strayed interview (start) | 11:06 | | On Mind Over Mountain, origins and themes | 11:28 | | On high school running and self-challenge | 12:28 | | Fear and courage, mantra “strong, strong, strong” | 20:48 | | Revising women's stories in sports | 22:33 | | “Dear Sugar” advice with athletes | 22:20 | | Coping with global fear and dread | 29:09 | | Skyler Higley stand-up set | 31:48 | | Patterson Hood interview and performance intro | 45:10 | | “Pinocchio” song performance | 48:35 |

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Episode Tone & Style

• Warm, witty, and openly reflective—balancing humor and thoughtful exploration.
• The conversations are intimate, candid, and empowering, especially regarding women’s inner strength.
• Skyler Higley brings bold, subversive comedy and playful irreverence, engaging race, adoption, and societal quirks with a wink.
• Patterson Hood’s musical segment is heartfelt and subtly humorous, tying autobiography to universal truths.

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Conclusion

This episode of Live Wire artfully combines wit, authenticity, and inspiration—spotlighting women’s stories, unraveling America’s oddities, and contemplating music's capacity to capture longing and growth. Cheryl Strayed encourages listeners to “revise their stories” and pursue “strong, strong, strong” even in moments of weakness; Skyler Higley delivers biting, joyful stand-up; and Patterson Hood’s performance closes the show on a note of heartfelt nostalgia and hope.

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Transcript

[Luke Burbank]

Hey there. Welcome to Livewire. I'm your host, Luke Burbank. All right, today on the show, Cheryl Strayed, who we all know did a really hard thing, which was hiking the Pacific Crest Trail, which she then wrote about in her massive hit book, Wild. Cheryl is now talking to other women who have done really hard things. It's all part of her new podcast, Mind Over Mountain. Then stand up comedian Skyler Higley, who will tell us his conspiracy theory about milk. Not in like an RFK Jr kind of way. Everybody just relax. He's also going to talk about what it was like growing up black and adopted in Utah. Then Patterson Hood from the Drive By Truckers will play us a song, which I'm betting is the first time you have heard a grizzled Southern man singing about Pinocchio. That's going to happen, folks, so stick around. We've got a great episode of Livewire which gets started right after this. Hey there, Livewire listeners. It's Luke letting you know that we are going to be back at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon on May 14th with a great lineup of guests. Podcaster Sarah Marshall of the you're wrong about podcast will be there now. She's got a new series. It's all about Satanic panic. It's a fascinating show. Plus, we're have the author Camille Dungy stopping by. She's got a new collection of poetry, which is her first in nearly a decade. Then humorist and writer Angela Nissel on her latest memoir, and some music from jazz performer Cassa. Overall, you can get your tickets right [e-mail] and we'll see you on May 14th.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

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[Elena Passarello]

PRX, it's Live WIRE. This week.

[Cheryl Strayed]

Writer Cheryl Strayed I've always been so acutely aware of how important it is that we revise the stories we tell about ourselves and in this case, the stories we tell about the strength and power of women.

[Elena Passarello]

Comedian Skyler Higley First, I think Congress

[Skyler Higley]

and the Supreme Court should have term limits, right? Great.

Second, I think the president should be

[Elena Passarello]

a magician with music from Patterson Hood and our fabulous house band. I'm your announcer, Elena Passarello. And now the host of Livewire, Luke Burbank.

[Luke Burbank]

Wow. Thank you, Elena Passarello. And thank you everybody for coming out to the Alberta Rose Theater here in Portland, Oregon. I mean, we got so much show for you this week, but we got to start things off the way we always like to with a little segment we call the Best News We Heard All Week. This is where we like to find a few good news stories. And those do happen, usually just not in this country. But we find them wherever they are and we bring them to you to maybe put a little bit of light in your life. Elena, what is the best news you've heard all week?

[Elena Passarello]

I found this story when I was doing a little light reading in Frontiers in Physiology.

[Luke Burbank]

That's how far you have to look now for the best news you've heard all week.

[Elena Passarello]

I'm just kidding. I read it in People. But a writer for people.com apparently read front Frontiers in Physiology and learned about a gentleman who came into the hospital at Sichuan University in western China, a 52 year old man who had had bouts of hiccups, recurring bouts of hiccups for 20 years. They would be like half an hour long. He'd have them sometimes three times a week and they got Worse and worse until 2024, he just started having them ceaselessly. So. So they tried everything. It didn't work. But they figured out that they could numb his neck with lidocaine and then basically shock his neck muscles until the hiccups went away.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, pretty bad. Well, that sounds way harsher than drinking water upside down.

[Elena Passarello]

Yes. Or scary. Yeah. But let me tell you, I don't know this man, and I bet everybody has always told him a million ways to get rid of hiccups, but this is the way that you do works 100% of the time, every time, so. So my husband has tended bar for, like, as long as that guy had hiccups. You take a spoon, you put some sugar on it, you shake some bitters, aromatic bitters on it, and then you suck a lime or a lemon, and then you eat this.

[Luke Burbank]

Sounds more complicated than the lidocaine.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

I would be already in post surgery.

[Elena Passarello]

Well, let me tell you. Listen to this. I learned, because I try to watch my sugar, that you don't have to really do it. You just have to method act, pretend to do it. So you have to pretend to suck the lemon in. Oh, it's so tart. And then you have to pretend to, like, dissolve the granules of sugar in your tongue.

[Skyler Higley]

Like, ooh.

[Cheryl Strayed]

And swallow it.

[Elena Passarello]

And swallow it. This was 15 years ago that I started doing this, and it's cured every hiccups that I have had since.

[Luke Burbank]

Wow.

[Elena Passarello]

So I'm waiting to be in Frontiers in Physiology with my amazing method.

[Luke Burbank]

Or People magazine.

[Elena Passarello]

Or People. I prefer People.

[Luke Burbank]

That's best news you can use from Elena Passarello, everyone. I'm totally gonna do that, by the way.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah, just text me if you need to be reminded. Yeah, I could be your hiccups doula.

[Luke Burbank]

Love it. The best news that I heard all week, I thought when I first heard about it, I thought maybe it was the worst news that I heard all week. Although worst news is its own nightmare category. This wasn't the worst news, but I thought it was not great news, which was the passing was announced of the world's oldest living land animal, a 193-year-old tortoise named Jonathan, who had been living on the island of St. Helena in the Atlantic Ocean. And this was making the rounds on the Internet because this veterinarian named Joe Hollins had gone on Twitter and had written this guy. Joe Hollins had, like, worked with Jonathan the tortoise, went on Twitter and said, you know, he announced he was heartbroken about the death of this gentle giant The Internet, of course, picked up the story and ran with it. Everybody was memorializing Jonathan, writing posts about, you know, gone so young in the prime of his 190s.

[Skyler Higley]

Wow.

[Luke Burbank]

And then something interesting happened, which is Joe Hollins, the veterinarian, went on Facebook and was like, I don't even have a Twitter account. I don't know who is saying that they're Joe Hollins and that Jonathan is dead. But that is a crypto scam.

[Skyler Higley]

What?

[Luke Burbank]

And he's not dead.

[Cheryl Strayed]

Yay.

[Luke Burbank]

That was confirmed, by the way, by a person named Ann Dillon, who is the head of communications for the island of St Helena. She told the Associated Press, I can assure you Jonathan is very much alive. I'm looking at him. I have a feeling that anywhere you are on the island of St. Helena, you could be looking at Jonathan. Like, he's probably really close to where he was yesterday. He's not super fast these days. So Jonathan is alive, which is pretty awesome. This is a kind of a fascinating fact about this guy. The Guinness Book world record says that he is the oldest living land animal and they think the oldest tortoise ever, maybe at least that we've been able to track. He was believed to be 50 years old when they brought him to St. Helena in 1882.

[Skyler Higley]

Wow.

[Luke Burbank]

Napoleon died on St. Helena in 1821. This dude barely missed Napoleon.

[Skyler Higley]

Right.

[Luke Burbank]

He's still, I have to say, like, personally, as a guy who is turning 50 very soon, I am pretty heartened by the fact that I have another 140 years in me.

[Elena Passarello]

Yes. I mean, are you coming out as a tortoise? Is that what you're. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Yes, I am this week on Livewire. So I'd have to say the surefire cure for hiccups and the fact that Jonathan is very much alive over there in St. Helena. That is the best news that I heard all week. Our first guest has spent her career doing one thing better than almost anyone alive. That is telling the truth about what it means to be human. Her books have sold more than 5 million copies around the world and have been translated into 40 languages, including, of course, the number one New York Times bestseller, Wild, which was made into an Oscar nominated film. Her best selling collection of Dear Sugar columns, Tiny Beautiful Things, was adapted into a Hulu TV show. Her latest project involves her sitting down with athletes and adventurers to talk about facing the impossible, which is a subject she's been researching on foot and. And on the page for decades. Please welcome back to the show our friend Cheryl Strayed to Livewire. Hello, Cheryl. Welcome back to the show.

[Cheryl Strayed]

It's so fun to hang out with you guys. So thank you for inviting me back.

[Luke Burbank]

We're always like, we are excited. The audience, everyone's excited when we've got you on the show.

[Cheryl Strayed]

Thanks.

[Luke Burbank]

Because, of course, you couldn't leave podcasting to us, the small people. You have now launched a podcast called Mind Over Mountain, where you're having these really incredible conversations. Who are you talking to? What are you talking about on this show?

[Cheryl Strayed]

Okay. Mind Over Mountain. It's for the iHeart Women's Sports Network.

[Luke Burbank]

Okay.

[Cheryl Strayed]

And I'm talking to women athletes of all varieties and adventures, as you said, about the epic experiences they've had in their sport and in their lives. And of course, I'm coming at it not so much as somebody who is, you know, I'm not asking them the nitty gritty about, like, you know, that game or that, you know, competition, but really I'm more interested in the journey within, how it was that they mustered the courage, the resilience and the strength it takes to be epic, really, with your body. And of course, there's so much that goes on in the mind and the spirit when we do that.

[Luke Burbank]

You're so well known, obviously, for your book Wild, which involved you hiking the Pacific Crest Trail, which is a very athletic thing to do. But I didn't realize until I was reading your substack, I think that you were a cross country runner in high school. That is a famously punishing sport to be a part of. What did you like about it?

[Cheryl Strayed]

It's interesting. I tend to be somebody who's only even a little bit good at the. It's always the most punishing thing, you know, like, I can't run fast, but I can run far. I can't hike very well, but I can keep going, you know, And I think that that was one of the most kind of moving things for me to realize on my Pacific Crest Trail hike, which I wrote about in Wild, and to talk to so many other adventurers and hikers since then, is that, you know, it really isn't about being an expert or a champion or the best or a gold medalist. Though, of course, I do talk on my podcast to a lot of people who have done those things. But really, at the end of the day, we're always, you know, up against ourselves. And I think when we do something hard with our bodies, like join cross country, when you're like a 14 year old who's very insecure and wasn't necessarily the fittest, person. I started running and I learned something that I think only the body can teach us. And it was something I learned years later on the Pacific Crest Trail. And that was that simple, essential truth that we can do the impossible. We can keep going even when it hurts, and we can do it on our own steam, with our own bodies. And so when we teach our bodies to be strong, inevitably that spills over into the rest of us. Our spirits, our hearts, our minds. And that has been a lesson I've had to draw upon over and over again throughout my life.

[Luke Burbank]

Do you think you would have been able to do the Pacific Crest Trail if you hadn't done, done that cross country stuff?

[Cheryl Strayed]

You know, probably not. I mean, I do think that it's sort of sad what's happened, I think, to youth sports, where it's all about, like, competition and who won. And I think what's really, I mean, it's good for us at all stages of our lives. But, you know, especially when we learn young, like, okay, it doesn't matter if I win this thing. What matters is that I do it. And doing it is actually such a powerful lesson, you know, and so, yeah, I think that, that, you know, if I looked back at my life and said, what were the pivot points? When I was 14, I was like so many 14 year old girls, uncertain about myself, longing to be affirmed and validated and loved, trying to conform the best I could so that I would be validated and loved. And then I did this thing where I was like, okay, I'm gonna go run really far and it's gonna be hard and I'm gonna do it every day. And it was, you know, the first experience that I had where I was really testing myself against myself and seeing myself in a new light. Not as somebody who was finding the validation outside of me, but somebody who was getting it from within because I would run that five miles. And the feeling, I think everyone in this room, the feeling of accomplishment when you do something like that is always with you.

[Elena Passarello]

Everything you're describing about running. I feel like you could put writing in there, except that's the body part, you know, because, you know, when I write, I sort of feel like Crang from Ninja Turtles. Just a brain in a jar. But did you write before you ran or did you run before you wrote?

[Cheryl Strayed]

You know, those two things were happening at the same time. You know, when I was a young woman, I was also figuring out I really wanted to be a writer. But Elena, what you say is really true. And this is what's really interesting. On the podcast, I'm having these conversations with all of these women who all have actually done they are champions. They have done great things and broken records and been Olympians and so forth. But what ends up happening is we talk about that internal stuff. It's not just like how great they were. It was like how they had to find those things within. And I think even the champions, the things they do in their sport spills over into the other things that they're also trying to do in their lives. So the topics of these conversations we begin with like Abby Wambach, I'm saying, like you, you know, I'm extolling her virtues as a soccer player, but the conversation ends up being about grieving her brother or with Stephanie Case, who was this ultra runner champion. Ultra runner. The conversation is about her, you know, miscarriages and journey with infertility. And all of these women, there's always something else we end up talking about. And their sport and the things that they let their bodies teach them because they had to push themselves to their limits are the things that help them survive. Not only the hardest things that they've had to survive, but the hardest things that all of us in this room and all of us listening have had to survive.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, we're talking to Cheryl Strayed here on Livewire this week. We gotta take a quick break. We come back. I want to talk to you about the interview you did with Heather Anderson, which really kind of tacked against, I feel like what some of the popular culture is telling us about how we have to be. And also, I want you to share your mantra with everyone listening that you use when you don't want to exercise because I am already integrating it into my personal life. So we'll do that in a moment. More with Cheryl Strayed coming up on livewire. Welcome back to Livewire from prx. We are talking to writer, columnist, substacker and now podcaster Cheryl Strayed about her new podcast, Mind Over Mountain. And one of the interviews that you've done for that show was with Heather Anderson, who is this long distance hiker and has set all these records. She did the Pacific Crest Trail. She had done some circuit of like three. Is it really long hikes that maybe nobody's done in the short amount of time she did it?

[Cheryl Strayed]

Yeah, that's exactly it. But what it is, it's called the Triple Crown. So there are many national scenic trails, but the three longest ones are the Appalachian Trail, the Continental Divide Trail and the Pacific Crest Trail. And Heather Anderson Is, I think, a double triple crowner. When you're a triple crowner, that means you've hiked the full length of all three of those trails. And she did this crazy thing where, first of all, she wanted to do the fastest known time on the Pacific Crest Trail, which she did. And, I mean, she was, like, hiking 40, 50 miles a day to do that.

[Luke Burbank]

And honestly, the crowd sounds concerned. I mean, I know that was less impressed and more. We need to check on Heather.

[Cheryl Strayed]

I know.

[Luke Burbank]

Is Heather okay?

[Cheryl Strayed]

And then she also did. And this is a really impossible feat, too. She was also the first woman to do the Triple crown in a calendar year. So that means she hiked all three trails in one calendar year, which is so tricky in so many ways. It's a. Physically, absolutely. You have to go at a blistering pace. But, you know, because, you know, you're hiking in mountains, this. You have to hike in all kinds of weather, so you have to really time. You can't be up in the High Sierras in December. So she really has this kind of fetish, I would say, of, like, she just wants to break all these records on these trails. And she's a really cool woman. And one of the things I love about her is, you know, when I asked her about, like, how she began, it wasn't like she was like, this great athlete from high school. You know, she was like, I couldn't even run a mile when I first started hiking. And I just fell in love with the sport. I fell in love with the endeavor and that sense of, again, that courage and strength and resilience that wasn't just about the physical body, but about the self. And she's dedicated her life to it.

[Luke Burbank]

What I was struck by, though, is that the. I guess the title of that episode of Mind Over Mountain is, you don't have to be fearless. Which is, like, very counter to, like, the way that we're told, particularly women, My senses are told, you gotta be badass, and you gotta, you know, just be brave. And, like, I mean, what's her message about the fact that you don't have to be fearless?

[Cheryl Strayed]

Well, I think anyone who tells the truth about courage is talking about embracing fear. I mean, my mantra on my hike on the Pacific Crest Trail was, I am not afraid. When did I say that? Only when I was afraid. Only when I was afraid. That was the phrase I pulled out of my pocket. And it was me saying to myself, you can do this. Even though it's scary, you can keep going. Now, that is, I think, what Heather's talking about too. And I think it's what we're always talking about. Like, the contradiction is always in right there. The two opposite things are always there in the same hand. And that's how we move forward. There is no other way. There is no way to live life without suffering, without also, in that suffering, seeing the tremendous beauty that is life. There's no way to be brave without being terrified. There's no way to be strong without feeling weak at times. And I think that those physical endeavors, like long distance hiking, really allow us to sit in that truth for a while.

[Luke Burbank]

You kind of bring in this podcast. You kind of bring together, like, two things that you're passionate about. One is finding out more about these guests. And then you also have written this advice column, Dear Sugar Forever, and you have the guests help you answer a Dear Sugar question. Yeah, are they good at that? I mean, just cause someone can lift like £1,000 over their head. Do they have good advice for people?

[Cheryl Strayed]

You know, they always have. One thing that has delighted me is they're all so excited to do it. I mean, I think that most of us are like, let me get my hands on somebody else's problem, you know?

[Luke Burbank]

Right, right.

[Cheryl Strayed]

And like, there is. I think that's why I said yes way back then. Cause I was like, this is my whole life's fantasy to know other people's secrets and then to get to tell them what to do, as if I've got it all figured out. Right. And so these athletes I interview, they're all extremely excited and they take it really seriously. And I do think that they've offered really good advice. So that's been a fun part of it. But you said this podcast brings together two things, you know, athletic endeavor with the advice. But I would say three. Because another really important thing for me, and one of the big reasons I said yes, is I've always been so acutely aware of how important it is that we revise the stories we tell about ourselves. And in this case, the stories we tell about the strength and power of women. You know, I feel so honored to be, you know, expanding the stories we tell about women doing physical things and women athletes, because I think they have been so marginalized. I mean, even that we have the phrase women's sports is sad to me, because. Right. We don't say men's sports, really. I mean, we. You know, women have been really marginalized. In my lifetime. I'm 57. In my lifetime, we've got things like, I remember being a teenager When Joan Benoit, you know, women were allowed in the, you know, to run the marathon in the Olympics, you know, and it was like, late in the game. It was really quite late in the game. And for so long, it has been thought that women could not do things like run a marathon or, you know, have. Be the kind of great champions and athletes that we really can be. And so I love that I get to be contributing to telling that story.

[Luke Burbank]

This is another thing that you just sort of casually mentioned, but it was very important to me, which was that. Cause you interview, I think your first episode, you interviewed this incredible weightlifter, Tamara Walcott. And you also. I know you lift weights, but you tell yourself, when you really don't feel like doing it, on those mornings, you just say, strong, strong, strong, over and over again in your mind. Does that work?

[Cheryl Strayed]

It does, yeah. I really become quite like a very dedicated weightlifter and powerlifter over the last few years. And here again, Luke, when do I say strong, strong, strong? When I feel weak. Weak, weak. Right. And this is how we survive. This is how I survive, at least is, you know, and it is about the inner voice. It is about storytelling. And, you know, I think that none of us really want to do a lot of the hard things that we're forced to do, but, you know, you have to convince yourself it's worth it. So I get lifted by simply saying strong, strong, strong to myself.

[Elena Passarello]

How long do you have to do it for? Like the whole workout?

[Cheryl Strayed]

Yeah. You know, that is the one thing. Do you lift to weights, Alena?

[Elena Passarello]

I try. Yeah.

[Cheryl Strayed]

I try. I mean, one thing about it that is, it's actually so much more efficient than, like, running, you know, I mean, you can do. You can get a good workout in 25 minutes, you know, if you really

[Elena Passarello]

apply yourself, and it's good for your bones. And I. My doctor, who is TikTok, told me that I'm supposed to be able to put half my body weight in each hand and walk around holding it for a minute, or else I'll die or something. I don't know.

[Luke Burbank]

It'll turn to dust.

[Elena Passarello]

I won't be able to get up off the ground.

[Cheryl Strayed]

That's the farmer's carry.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah, the farmer's carry.

[Cheryl Strayed]

Yeah.

[Elena Passarello]

So, like, how many times do I have to say strong, strong, strong, in order to make Dr.

[Cheryl Strayed]

Tick Tock? A really long time. Yeah, a really long time.

[Elena Passarello]

Not just three times.

[Cheryl Strayed]

No, it's okay.

[Elena Passarello]

Okay.

[Luke Burbank]

I'm waiting.

[Cheryl Strayed]

Maybe get a tattoo on your wrist or something. Okay.

[Elena Passarello]

And then I'll do bicep curls so I can look at it.

[Cheryl Strayed]

Yeah.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

I don't know. I'm, like, covered in tattoos that are supposed to help me be a more grounded person, and none of it's working.

[Cheryl Strayed]

Are you?

[Luke Burbank]

I really am. I wanna make the sort of case for regrettable tattoos. I think it shows an optimism.

[Cheryl Strayed]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

I really mean this. Like, I have so many janky tattoos and, like, I just kind of. For my life. If I could put my dear sugar hat on for a moment, for my life, I would like to be somebody who's able to do stuff, even if I don't know if I'm going to agree with it later on and not be paralyzed by the sense that I might regret something because I look down at some of my tattoos, I go, that was dumb. And then I just move on with my day. It's not as catastrophic, the idea that I would be paralyzed about a decision because I was worried about what the worst case scenario would be.

[Cheryl Strayed]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

To me, I'd rather live in the light of these janky tattoos.

[Cheryl Strayed]

I gotta hand it to you, Luke. I mean, I think that's really deep. Profound wisdom there.

[Luke Burbank]

Finally.

[Cheryl Strayed]

That's some good advice.

[Luke Burbank]

I did it.

[Cheryl Strayed]

We're gonna. You're gonna have to come on my podcast. Even though you're not a woman athlete,

[Luke Burbank]

as soon as I do something athletically significant, I will send you an email.

[Cheryl Strayed]

You can help me answer a letter. But that is true. And I think, too, even when we do talk about trying these things, new sports or when I went and hiked the Pacific Crest Trail, I had never gone backpacking before. That's ridiculous. Don't do that. When they ask me about that, they're like, well, what are your regrets? I guess technically, on paper, I would be like, yeah, I would have had some experience backpacking. My pack wouldn't have been so heavy. And yet I treasure those things because I learned the lesson you learn the hard way, is the lesson you never forget. And the only way that that's possible is if you let yourself make mistakes and you let yourself be a novice and you let yourself be an idiot. Check, check, check, check, and check. And you're like, okay, I did that wrong. And then now I'll never forget this. And I taught myself. And so I think that that's a really powerful lesson, too, in, like, the doing. The doing.

[Luke Burbank]

This is a little off topic, but you're just one of the more wise people that I know that we get to have on the show. So I guess I just wanted to ask You. Because I feel like everybody in this room at the Alberta Rose Theater, and I'm sure many of the people hearing this on the radio are sort of walking around with a generalized sense of dread and fear and sort of sadness about the world. I'm wondering if you have found ways in your life to at least push back on that a little bit.

[Cheryl Strayed]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I mean, that's such a hard question, because I feel that sense of dread and sadness and outrage and fear and all of those things as well. I mean, the answer I'm gonna give is. I think the answer so many people are giving is like, we have to always remember that we have the power. Like, we have the power of the things we do in our own life. And the things we do make a difference. And so, you know, every day the question is like, am I going to be a loving force in the world? Am I gonna spread kindness and, you know, fight for justice? And am I gonna tell the truth? Am I gonna extend a hand? Am I gonna offer mercy? Yes, yes, yes, yes. And when I can do those things, rather than sit in that sense of powerlessness and despair, I feel better. And I think that if we do that collectively, we make a difference in the world.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. And if you're having a hard time, just say, strong. Strong.

[Skyler Higley]

Strong.

[Elena Passarello]

Strong.

[Luke Burbank]

Just keep saying strong. Strong. Strong. The new podcast is Mind Over Mountain, the wonderful Cheryl Strayed, everyone, right here on Livewire. That right, Cheryl Strayed recorded live at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon, here on Livewire. Make sure to check out Cheryl's podcast, Mind Over Mountain, wherever you cast your pods. Hey, special thanks this episode to Pauline and Drew Lewis of Portland, Oregon, who are part of the Livewire member community and are generously supporting the show with a donation each month. Drew and Pauline are helping keep Livewire going with this donation and we are incredibly grateful for it. So thank you so much for keeping us going. You're tuned in to Livewire from prx. All right, our next guest comes to us by way of Chicago's legendary comedy scene. He's written for the New Yorker and the Onion. He was named one of New York Comedy Festival's comics to watch. He's also done the Just for Laughs New Faces showcase, and he brings a comedic style that's been described as delightfully bizarre and undeniably hilarious by none other than his old boss, who he also wrote for on the Oscars, Conan o'. Brien. Take a listen to Skyler Higley with some stand up comedy live at the Alberta Rose Theater. In Portland, Oregon.

[Skyler Higley]

Hey. Hi.

Hi.

[Luke Burbank]

Hello.

[Skyler Higley]

Hello, Radio. I'm excited about this crowd. I've never done a crowd like this.

They told me our crowd skews slightly older, but they're liberal. And I'm like, that's good, because all my jokes are criticisms of Reaganomics.

Yeah, yeah.

Anyway, listen, I'm not a fan of America that much.

Thanks. It's weird. It started off weird. They didn't do a good job. You know, America, we take kids in school and we make them say the Pledge of Allegiance. That's weird. That's kind of culty of a thing to do. American schools, they take kids and they

go, hey, before you can learn any facts about the world, I'm gonna need

you to swear to God that you will never betray America.

And you're just like, well, I'm seven,

so I didn't have any plans. I can't do a nine. Eleven. I can barely count to ten.

Strange president situation. That's weird. Don't worry, I'm a comedian. It'll be okay.

Here are my two political opinions that

I'll share with you. Okay? First, I think Congress and the Supreme Court should have term limits, right? Great. Second, I think the president should be a magician.

Why is the president always just some guy? It's always just some normal guy, right? Like, I can juggle. Can the president juggle? You know what I mean? Just some normal. Mostly white dudes, right? We got Joe, Bill, George, Lil George. Where is our President Mysterion? Who he be at the press conference? We be, like, grilling him, right?

We'd be like, Mr. President, you said you'd have a plan to curb inflation by now. Now, where is that plan? He's just like, check your back pocket. Lot of stuff is wrong.

Lot of stuff.

Stuff that you never even thought about. Like, okay, I'm lactose intolerant, right? Do we have anybody? Any other minorities in the crowd? Okay, I'm lactose intolerant. And I just found out about that because I grew up drinking so much milk.

So, so much. Full glasses, like a dang zodiac killer. I was drinking so much milk, it was insane. Why was I drinking all that milk?

You know why? Because in America, we have a lactonormative society, bro.

Yeah, America loves milk. America loves milk so much, we used to have entire men. They used to get dressed up in little outfits, little hats, like they were

in the dang Navy, and they would come over to your house and deliver your milk. And you'd be like, thank you for your service.

And Then they'd have sex with your wife, and you wouldn't even be mad about it. You'd watch them being like, usa, usa. So much pro milk propaganda, right? You remember those Got Milk ads? Those ads?

They lied to you too. They said, you drink milk, you'll get strong bones. You ever hear that? You drink milk, you get. Guess what? That's not true.

That's not true at all. I looked it up. I googled it. Calcium's not real.

That's not right. But

you can't just lie about that. You know, I drank the white man's milk. My bones are mid at best. I don't have, like, special X Men bones. I have the bones of a common peasant. I don't like it. That's terrible. You can't lie to me about that, about food, right? Like, what's next? Do carrots not really help my vision? Can I digest gum faster than seven years? Is cauliflower not doing ethnic cleansing on broccoli? Like, where do the lies end, bro? I can't handle. I become, like, a conspiracy theorist now.

But instead of talking about the Illuminati, I'm always talking to my friends about big dairy. I'm always pulling my friends aside, like, hey, why you think they call it 1% milk, bro?

Cause that's who gets the profits. Think about it, dawg. Think about it. In the American workforce, what demographic is always getting paid the least? What demographic gets paid the least?

Across the board at companies, it's women of color.

Mm. Woc. Flip that backwards.

What's that spell?

Think about it.

Yes, I'm very good at this. Thank you very much.

I'm adopted.

I have parents who are whites. Sorry, I didn't mean to say whites like that. I meant to say the enemy. So

I'm adopted, and I talk about it.

I grew up in an all white place. I grew up in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Excuse you, Portland. Excuse me. Excuse you. My. My friend suggested we go to a vegan strip club that y' all have here. And y' all are looking at me like, oh, those crackers over there. Excuse you. Look to your left. Look to your right. Do you see a black person anywhere? Excuse.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Me.

[Skyler Higley]

So anyway, I grew up in Salt Lake, right?

And I had all white friends growing up, and they.

It was the early 2000s when I was growing up, right? The peak of Eminem.

Remember Eminem? At the height of his powers, he became like an MLK for white boys who hated their moms, you know? He was like, that's the Reverend Dr.

Mathers to you, you know? So they would listen to Eminem, they'd be listening to hip hop. And they decided because they were listening to hip hop that they were black. And they knew I had white parents, so they decided they were blacker than me. And they would say that to me.

They'd be like, hey, we like blacker than you, dawg.

And I'd be like, all right, well, I hope you get sickle cell then,

because you don't get to say that to me. Listen, you can't invalidate my blackness. Cause I got white parents. Think about it. I literally got taken by white people. That's the blackest thing you can do, really. That's the original thing of black. Honestly, I feel like the Confederacy might have lasted longer had they just called it adoption. They try to abolish slavery. They try to abolish slavery. They're like, what? What? Slaves? All I got is my house sons and my field sons. What's the problem?

Okay, I found your line. I found your line.

I went back home recently.

This thing happened to me. I was back home in Salt Lake, right? And I was at a Starbucks because I hate good coffee. And I was sitting there, and I was in Starbucks, and I noticed there was another black man sitting near me in the Starbucks. And I was like, oh, my God, this is like the highest black population that this Starbucks has ever had in this city. It felt like a real moment. I was just proud to be around another black person in Salt Lake. And this white woman is sitting across from us, and she had that moment where, you know, you probably do it here in this city. You have to pee, right? And you sort of look around for who can guard your things? You become like a little lord of your things. You look around and you go, who among these strangers is worthy? And she looks at me for a very long time. And she looks to the black man to my right, sees that there's another black person there. And then she makes the choice to turn around and ask another white person

sitting way further away than us if

she could watch her laptop. And she did exactly what y' all did. She posted her black square in 2020. She knew that this wasn't great, but she was like, well, it's either I say yes or recite a Maya Angelou poem. So I gotta. This one goes to the bathroom. I'm sitting there in that racial tension, and I'm angry about it, right? I'm mad. I'm like, you know what? I can't let this stand. I gotta teach Everybody, a lesson right now. This is a teachable moment. So I waited for her to come back from the bathroom. Took a longer time than I wanted to. I was like, dang, she got the whole milk, Shea, lactose intolerant. But I waited for her to come back from the bathroom, sit back down in front of her laptop. And that's when I stood up in front of my laptop, made eye contact with her same way she did with me, right? We looked at each other for a long time, and she was like. I was like, you know, I wanted her to know that I saw her assume that I was gonna steal. And then once we were done making eye contact for about a good 30 seconds, I turn to the black man to my right.

I go, hey, brother. Hey, my fellow black brother, my fellow melanin king out here overcoming the chains of oppression to shine like the diamonds of mother Africa. Brother, I ask you nay, I beseech you, brother.

Brother, you are being beseech right now if you, as well as our ancestors

could turn a watchful Negro eye towards my laptop. Because as we all know, brother, there are some white devils out here that would like to steal our property the same way they stole our people as property all those years ago. What do you say, brother? And as salaam alaikum, by the way. Now, my critical error was that I

forgot to check if he saw what was going on. I was like, oh, crap.

I might have just thrown a Black

Panther surprise party on this dude.

And this is why I love black

people, because he didn't question it. He played along perfectly.

He didn't even say anything.

He just put his fist up real

quick and that was it.

All right.

You guys are phenomenal. I've been Skylar Higley.

[Luke Burbank]

That's Skyler Higley here on Livewire. That was Skyler Higley recorded live for Livewire at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon. You can follow Skyler on Instagram and at Skyler Higley, you are listening to Livewire radio. We've got to take a very quick break, but don't go anywhere. When we come back, singer songwriter Patterson Hood, who you might know is one of the co founders of the Drive By Truckers, is going to share a song off of his latest album, which is actually a collaboration with Chris Funk of the Decemberists. Some good stuff, so don't go anywhere. More Livewire in just a moment. Welcome back to Livewire. Okay, before we get to this week's musical performance from Patterson Hood, a little preview of next week's show. We are going to talk to the travel icon Rick Steves himself. He's going to talk about his latest book on the Hippie Trail, which details his time backpacking on this route from Istanbul to Kathmandu in the late 70s, which really kind of cemented his love of travel. We're also going to find out where in the world Rick Steves hasn't been, which it turns out is a pretty short list. We're also going to get some music from the Lullaby Project. This is this incredible thing where professional musicians are paired with parents who are facing homelessness or incarceration. These parents are writing lullabies for their children, and then the music is performed with the help of the Oregon Symphony and in this case, the musician Stephanie Schneiderman. It's just an incredibly powerful, moving, beautiful music experience, which I can't wait for you to hear. It's the Lullaby Project as part of next week's episode of Livewire. Don't miss it. Okay. Our musical guest this week might be best known as one of the founders of the critically acclaimed rock and roll band Drive By Truckers. But in addition to that, he's also a writer. He writes essays and columns and short stories. And now he has put together a solo record born out of his friendship with Chris Funk of the Decemberists. They've been talking about doing something together for years, and now they finally have, so here they are. This is Patterson Hood and Chris Funk live at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon. Hello. Hello, Patterson. I understand that you and Chris had been kind of kicking around the idea of doing a record for a long time. What. What finally brought you together to actually take it out of the theoretical and into the actually happening?

[Patterson Hood]

You know, it all started right before I moved to Portland, and we were introduced by a mutual friend, and we went out and had a couple of drinks and were like instant buds, like total friends. But he started playing with me, and anytime I would play in town, and it was like there was a really good chemistry, and I thought this would be, we should make a record together. So I just kind of started putting songs in a folder, and at some point during lockdown, I kind of went through those songs because I was. Couldn't go anywhere and was demoing those songs. I thought, I think we should make this record. So it just finally got to happen.

[Luke Burbank]

I wonder what it's like for you because you're so associated with Drive By Truckers, and I know Chris is very associated with Decembrist. What's the difference of writing a song as a solo artist versus as part of a larger group environment.

[Patterson Hood]

I don't know if there's any set answer for that. It's kind of a lot of things. I mean. I mean, I love my band and I love what I get to do and. But I've also, you know, I'm real proud of the solo projects I've done because they're kind of a way of stepping outside of that. And then it makes me appreciate both more kind of having the two different things. And, you know, in the case of this, it ended up being this really autobiographical record, But I had no idea of that when we were even making it. I mean, I was literally. We were in the process of mixing the record, and it's when it dawned on me. It's like, holy cow. This, like, tells a very specific story basically from my early childhood until three weeks before my 30th birthday. And I had no idea when we were making it. But it's like, I mean, our band's done a lot of kind of concept record type things, and I had no idea that this was that kind of thing. But it's in some ways more conceptual than those records.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. What song are we gonna hear?

[Patterson Hood]

So this is a song.

It's the last song on the record, but it's also the first song on the storyline. Cause it's when I was a little boy and it's called Pinocchio.

[Cheryl Strayed]

And.

[Patterson Hood]

And it's. I think I was always, even as a kid, kind of an obsessive personality. And one of the first things I obsessed on was Walt Disney's Pinocchio movie. And. And they re released it to the theaters when I was 7, and I wanted to see it over and over. And, you know, nowadays you can buy the Blu Ray or stream it or whatever, but back then, the kid had to talk some grownup into taking them to see it over and over. And fortunately, I had a grandmother and a great uncle who really kind of tried their best to spoil me. And so they did take me to see it so many times that I memorized it and I would act it out in my grandmother's backyard for the other kids in her neighborhood. And they hated it. So I learned at a really early age all about, like, bad reviews.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, right. You got that out of your system at like eight. All right, well, this is Patterson Hood and Chris Funk here on Livewire.

[Patterson Hood]

Thank you all.

Life's a hard listen that keeps piling on Trying to learn which star to wish up Whistle on a star like Geppetto did Turn this block of wood into a well formed kid Trying to figure out like a sad detective Pushing out thoughts like my brain's defective Pushing out words from my ill formed mouth Just trying to see the light when the sun hides out Trying to see the light like a rhyme grin song Standing in the darkness trying to sing

along

Raise your voice to heaven so our friends will hear and sing a little softer just to pull them near Life's a hard lesson but it's always teaching Arms ain't long enough but they're always reaching Reaching for a line that can save my soul Soul to spending my favors just to pay my to pay my toll Getting kind of old Searching for the truth my Pinocchio It's a whale of a tale with so many many miles to go But I get a little closer each day to my long term goal. Trying to get a grip on my constant bitching Heaven is a house with a modern kitchen Heaven is the pace of a slow news day

[Luke Burbank]

A closer

[Patterson Hood]

look at someone with a lot to say Closer look at someone in the morning's light Yellow sunglasses keep my mood to strike right the devil's in the details will see us through to my blue fairy makes my wish come true. I've learned heaven ain't pleasure Island More to keep in love than to keeping on smiling Truth can hurt a lot but a lot destroys. Deep inside of every man is a real life boy.

Thank you.

[Luke Burbank]

That's Patterson Hood and Chris Funk right here on Livewire. That was Patterson Hood along with Chris Funk recorded live at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon. You can take a listen to Patterson's solo album. It's titled Exploding Trees and Airplane Screams and it's available right now. All right, that is gonna do it for this week's episode of Livewire. A huge thanks to our guests Cheryl Strait, Skyler Higley and Patterson Hood, along with Chris Funk.

[Elena Passarello]

Lara Haddon is our executive producer and Melanie Savchenko is our producer and editor. Evan Hoffer is our technical director. Trey Hester is our assistant editor. Valentine Keck is our operations manager and Ashley park is our marketing manager.

[Luke Burbank]

Our house sound is by D. Neal Blake and our house band is Ethan Fox, Tucker, Eyal Alves, Ben Grace, Sam Pinkerton, Matt Sheehy, and A. Walker Spring, who also composes our music. This episode was mixed by Eben Hoffer and Trey Hester.

[Elena Passarello]

Additional funding provided by the Marie Lamp from Charitable foundation. Livewire was created by Robin Tenenbaum and Kate Sokoloff.

[Luke Burbank]

This week we'd like to thank members Pauline and Drew Lewis of Portland, Oregon. For more information about our show or how you can listen to our podcast, head on over to livewireradio.org I'm Luke Burbank for Elena Passarello and the whole Livewire team. Thank you for listening and we will see you next week. Hey, if you appreciate the work that Livewire is doing to amplify riveting and unexpected voices to a national audience, and I gotta tell you, it's a big audience these days, please, please, please consider offering some monthly support by becoming a member of our League of Extraordinary Listeners. Here's how it works. Membership starts at just five bucks a month and there are great perks at every level, including a special shout out on the broadcast. Impress your friends by being shouted out on Livewire. It means the world to us and really does make it possible for us to do the show. So please, if you can help, support us by visiting livewire radio.org memberships.

[Cheryl Strayed]

From prx.