Earlonne Woods & Nigel Poor, Dylan Adler, and Margo Cilker

Summary

Live Wire with Luke Burbank
Episode: Earlonne Woods & Nigel Poor, Dylan Adler, and Margo Cilker
Date: May 29, 2026
Producer: PRX

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Episode Overview

This episode of Live Wire, hosted by Luke Burbank with announcer Elena Passarello, features a dynamic blend of storytelling, humor, and live music. The main theme centers on resilience, creativity, and human connection in unexpected places. Guests include Earlonne Woods and Nigel Poor of the acclaimed podcast Ear Hustle, comedian and musician Dylan Adler, and Americana singer-songwriter Margo Cilker with her husband and fellow musician, Forrest Van Tiele. The show explores the journey of creating groundbreaking art behind bars, the search for identity and connection through comedy and music, and the power of community.

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Key Segments and Insights

1. Best News We Heard All Week (04:44–11:44)

• Elena Passarello shares an emotional story about a rooster auction in Ranburn, Alabama, where a community repeatedly re-auctioned a rooster to raise over $5,000 for a baby needing heart surgery.
  • “The whole livestock auction was crying.” (06:44 – Elena Passarello)
• Luke Burbank highlights the story of Simon White, who returned historical tiles he stole as a child in England, thanks to the meticulous records kept by his mother.
  • “Moms rule and dads drool. Okay, you got. The dad is encouraging the theft of the tiles. And then, thankfully, the mom was so meticulous…” (10:10 – Luke Burbank)

2. Ear Hustle: Earlonne Woods & Nigel Poor (11:44–32:47)

Their Origin Story & Making Ear Hustle

• Origins [11:50–13:06]: Earlonne and Nigel met at San Quentin State Prison, where Nigel was teaching photography and Earlonne was incarcerated.
  • Memorable Quote:
    • Nigel: “I said to Earlonne, do you want to do a podcast? And he said, yes. And then the next thing he said is, what's a podcast?” (12:41)
• Earlonne’s Transfer to San Quentin [13:06–14:30]: Earlonne detailed how he “podcasted his way out of prison,” intentionally seeking a transfer to San Quentin to access more programs, using his wits to get moved by claiming depression.
  • “I watched about 10 Zoloft commercials… and it worked.” (13:47 – Earlonne Woods)
• Therapy in Prison [14:31–15:03]: Earlonne stressed the need for therapy for everyone in prison, not just as a transfer tactic but as genuine mental health support.

The Podcast Boom and Impact

• Ear Hustle’s Rise [17:44–21:22]: The show was meant to play only in CA prisons but became a Radiotopia podcast contest winner. They soon gathered 1.5 million downloads in their first month and now reach over 1,500 prisons through tablet devices.
  • Earlonne: “Our original idea was to do a podcast to just play inside the California Department of Corrections.” (17:44)
  • “First month, 1.5 million downloads.” (19:56 – Earlonne Woods)
  • “Ear Hustle has been listened to in jails and prison. 1.1 million hours.” (21:09 – Nigel Poor)

On Empathy, Boundaries, and Resilience

• Holding Space [24:31–26:34]: When interviewing incarcerated individuals, Nigel discussed the delicate balance between empathy and prison-imposed boundaries.
  • “One thing that's really hard is you can't touch people… So I've come up with this… The hand hug.” (25:05 – Nigel Poor)
• On Disappointment and Hope [27:12–27:43]:
  • “The mindset in prison is you hope for the best, but you prepare for the worst... but you’re going to always keep your hopes up.” (27:29 – Nigel Poor)

“Podcasted His Way Out”

• Earlonne’s Early Release [27:43–30:46]: Governor Jerry Brown cited the podcast as a key reason for Earlonne’s commutation, with Earlonne originally facing potential parole only in 2028. His application was processed in record time. He later interviewed both Governor Brown and Governor Newsom.
  • “You podcasted your way out of prison.” (28:23 – Luke Burbank)
  • “Within 11 days, I was sitting in front of somebody from the governor's office being interviewed for the commutation.” (29:04 – Earlonne Woods)
• Pardon by Governor Newsom
  • “On my sixth year out, Governor Newsom pardoned me. Which I don't know what it mean yet. What do you mean? I still can't get TSA PreCheck.” (30:15 – Earlonne Woods)

The Purpose of Ear Hustle

• Redefining Prison Stories [31:17–32:44]:
  • “Our original goal was to do a show that was about the everyday life in prison as a way to show the commonalities... Our directive is not to intentionally try to change people’s minds, but to tell stories that give people the ingredients to come up with their own decision.” (31:17 – Nigel Poor)
  • “To not tell stories about crime, to not overtly say the prison system is messed up, and to not just tell stories about redemption.” (32:10 – Nigel Poor)

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3. Stand-Up Comedy with Dylan Adler (34:25–44:58)

• Identity, Family, and Humor:
  • Jokes about being a queer twin ("My Mom's uterus is a Dua Lipa concert.") and growing up in the Bay Area among a racially diverse community. Highlights awkward school chants and family coming-out stories.
  • Coming out to Japanese grandparents, cultural confusion, and not using his family’s WWII stories in his college essay.
    • “I could have titled that the War in Me. Are you kidding me?... Hey, Mr. Harvard. This is my pearl harbor.” (37:04)
  • On love and acceptance: “I'm in love, and it has humanized straight love. Does that make sense? Is this what Jim and Pam feel?” (43:00–43:30)
  • A running joke about people mispronouncing his name (“Is it pronounced Dylon? I was like, now it is Dylon.”) (44:41)
• Performance Style: Exuberant, musical, identity-driven, with sharp insight into generational and cultural clashes.

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4. Musical Performance: Margo Cilker & Forrest Van Tiele (47:36–54:05)

Married Music Collaboration

• Life and Art Blending [47:36–49:44]: Honest musical feedback has always been central to their relationship, which began with a whirlwind courtship and engagement four days after meeting on tour.

  • “We also got engaged four days into a tour.” (47:49 – Margo Cilker)
  • “We had known each other for four days.” (48:43 – Forrest Van Tiele)

• Starting Fossil Records

  • “Building a business from the ground up... But the goal is so clear to just bring people together at shows...” (49:25 – Margo Cilker)
  • On the name: “Well, we're Underground Rock.” (49:48 – Margo Cilker)

• Musical Influences

  • Growing up singing with family in suburban California, learning to play for receptive audiences in Montana.
    • “I grew up singing in church... It was a little out of place to be in the suburbs of San Francisco doing that kind of thing.” (50:39 – Margo Cilker)

• Live Song: "Lowland Trail" [51:24–54:05]

  • Performed by Margo Cilker & Forrest Van Tiele, blending classic Americana sounds with warm, harmonizing vocals and evocative lyrics about seeking one’s path and identity.

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Memorable Quotes

• Earlonne Woods: “You podcasted your way out of prison.” (28:23 – Luke Burbank)
• Nigel Poor: “When you can relate to somebody through your own experience, you see them in a different way… life in prison is as complicated inside as it is outside.” (31:17, 53 – Nigel Poor)
• Dylan Adler: “My Mom’s uterus is a Dua Lipa concert. I don’t know what happened.” (34:49)
• Margo Cilker: “We were honest with each other about our music from day one, and I think that sort of helped. We also got engaged four days into a tour.” (47:36)
• On resilience in prison: “In prison, you hope for the best, but you prepare for the worst, but you’re going to always keep your hopes up because that’s what keeps you going – hope.” (27:29 – Nigel Poor)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Best News We Heard All Week: 04:44–11:44
• Ear Hustle (Earlonne Woods & Nigel Poor): 11:44–32:47
  • Meeting and Podcast Origins: 11:48–13:06
  • Therapy in Prison & Transfer Story: 13:31–15:03
  • The Podcast’s Rise and Reach: 17:44–21:22
  • Highlights from Ear Hustle: 22:35–24:31
  • Empathy & Boundaries: 24:31–26:34
  • On Disappointment & Hope: 27:12–27:43
  • Earlonne’s Release: 27:43–30:46
  • Ear Hustle’s Purpose: 31:17–32:44
• Dylan Adler Standup: 34:25–44:58
• Margo Cilker & Forrest Van Tiele Interview/Music: 47:36–54:05

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, heartfelt, and often humorous. The hosts blend humor and empathy, while guests share stories with candor and warmth.
• Rich in narrative and character, the episode highlights the complexity and resilience of the human experience, both inside and outside of prison walls.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode of Live Wire artfully weaves together powerful stories of overcoming adversity, embracing authenticity, and building community. From Earlonne Woods podcasting his way to freedom, to Dylan Adler’s comedic exploration of family, identity, and love, and Margo Cilker’s rootsy musical journey, the episode is a celebration of people who refuse to be defined by their circumstances and whose creativity bridges great divides.

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Transcript

[Luke Burbank]

Hey there. Welcome to Livewire. I'm your host, Luke Burbank. All right, this week on the show, Earlonne woods and Nigel Poor from the incredible podcast Ear Hustle. They're gonna talk about how they created the award winning show while Earlonne was still incarcerated in San Quentin and how the success of the podcast was influential in Earlonne being released early from prison. He basically podcasted his way out of prison. True story. Plus, we got some stand up comedy from Dylan Adler, who will reveal what he considers a real missed opportunity on his college admissions essay. Plus, we're gonna have a chat and hear some music from singer songwriter Margo Silker. She will be joined by her husband who is a musician and an actual working cowboy. They live like on a ranch where they write music and then sometimes they go out and make the cows go in certain directions. I think that's how cowboy stuff works, right? Anyway, stay tuned. Like Livewire starts right after this. Hey there, Livewire listeners. Spring is in the air and so is Livewire's annual membership drive. Here is what we are trying to do. We have set a goal to get 50 new members to help keep Livewire fully charged all year long. We need our members to help us make this show. I can't overstate that. Members also receive exclusive discounts on live events. You get on air mentions and you get bonus content in our monthly newsletter. Here's how you can join Livewire. You head to livewireradio.org and become a member. We're trying to get 50 new members this spring. And here's where the producers have written in Sing Please, Please, Please by Sabrina Carpenter with the words, please, please, please become a member. I don't know if that was a good idea, but I just did it.

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[Elena Passarello]

from PRX, it's Livewire. This week, podcasters Earlonne woods and Nigel Poor.

[Earlonne Woods]

Life in prison is as complicated inside as it is outside. People laugh, people have families, people go through hard times. It can be depressing, but it's many things.

[Elena Passarello]

Stand up comedian Dylan Adler.

[Dylan Adler]

I've actually never said your name out loud before. Is it pronounced dylon? I was like, now it is dylon.

[Elena Passarello]

With music from Margo Simon and our fabulous house band. I'm your announcer, Elena Passarello. And now the host of Livewire, Luke Burbank.

[Luke Burbank]

Thank you so much, Elena Passarello. Thanks to everyone for tuning in from all over the country. We have a great show in store for you this week. We got to kick things off, though, the way we always do with the best news we heard all week.

[Livewire Announcer]

This news.

[Luke Burbank]

This is our little reminder at the top of the show that there is some good news that happens occasionally on this planet or maybe just this solar system. Have we ever had to go outside of outside of the earth to find some good news, Elena?

[Elena Passarello]

Well, I mean, I bet there's some pretty cool stuff happening in space, but luckily I think we got to stay earthbound at least this week.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, that's a good sign. We can find a couple of things here on planet Earth. We find those stories, we present them to you. It's the best news we heard all week. Elena, what is the best news you heard all week?

[Elena Passarello]

Okay, this one is gonna be hard not to burst into tears while I do it. It's a lovely story from Ranburn, Alabama. I don't know very much about the place, but I do know that they have a lively Livestock auction there. And a few weeks ago, the old Claiborne county sale barn had their regular livestock auction and a man walked in with. With a rooster in my brain. The rooster is under his arm.

[Luke Burbank]

Yes, it's the only place to carry a rooster.

[Elena Passarello]

But there maybe there was some kind of rooster carrying case involved. And he said that he was raising money for a local family in the town who had a baby, an infant son named Brantley who needed major surgery because he was diagnosed with a heart condition. Very little baby in the hospital. And he wanted to help the family out by auctioning off his rooster to make a little money that he could give. That right there is the best news I've heard all week. But there's more. So somebody bought the rooster in the auction for like 70 bucks. And then that person immediately put the rooster back up for auction. And then it happened again, and then it happened again. And just all these people in this community in Alabama just kept re auctioning and re auctioning and re auctioning the rooster until they had raised over $5,000 for this family.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, that's incredible.

[Elena Passarello]

And apparently the whole. I don't know if anybody's ever said this phrase before, but the whole livestock auction was crying. They were all in tears because they were just part. I mean, I can imagine that the energy in the room must have been so glorious and infectious. And the report I read actually says that the baby is stable and doing better. And the donations were so deeply felt, that love was so deeply felt. Also, I wanna add, this rooster was

[Luke Burbank]

very good looking, so I think that probably helped.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah, I mean, I know that the causes were the reason that they were donating, but this rooster, I think everybody just wanted to get their hands on this rooster for a little bit before they auctioned it off to somebody else.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, that's great. When you hear people coming together to take care of folks in the community. The story that I saw this week that I thought was the best news actually comes from England where there's a guy named Simon white, he's about 68 years old now, and he's going through some of his old stuff, some of his old belongings, and he finds a toffee tin and it's got these like broken tiles in it, which were like a picture of like a dragon and kind of a beastly face. And he's looking at these tiles and he's like, where did these come from? And then he realizes, oh yeah, I stole these from a historical site in Shropshire.

[Livewire Announcer]

Oh no.

[Luke Burbank]

When I was nine years old. Because and he's very clear to point this out multiple times in the story. His father was encouraging him to steal the tiles.

[Elena Passarello]

Oh, my God.

[Luke Burbank]

So the family, like, in the 1960s, had visited this place in the West Midlands. It's in the county of Shropshire called Wenlock Priory. If I'm saying that right. And basically it was a place where you had nuns and monks living. But because the dad was a terrible influence, told the kid, yeah, grab some of these tiles off of this heritage site.

[Elena Passarello]

It was a different time.

[Luke Burbank]

It was a very different time. But then here was the thing. It was such a long ago time that Simon White initially had no idea, like, where the tiles were from. They used to go to a lot of places as a family and visit a lot of things, and he couldn't remember where he had stolen the tiles from. Enter Simon's mom, meticulous note taker. She kept a diary of pretty much every single day of her life. So they were able to go back and find in her diary where they were that day in 1967.

[Elena Passarello]

Oh, my gosh, that is so cool.

[Luke Burbank]

Right, which was this place, the Wenlock Priory. So they were able to, like, narrow it down to where they actually were. And he reached out to the English Heritage Organization, they put him in touch with one of their experts on the matter, a guy named Matty Cambridge. And Matty Cambridge was able to meet him and bring him and the tiles back to the original location, which had been a 13th century church and library, which is actually in ruins now today. So it was very cool that they were able to get these tiles back because A, they didn't have them and they wanted them, and B, because they've been in a toffee tin, they. They were very well preserved. These are the best examples of these tiles anywhere. And they're very specific to this location. This was not being done all over England. It was mostly just happening at this one place. So they actually now got some very nicely preserved tiles from this kid's thievery 60 years ago.

[Elena Passarello]

That's awesome.

[Luke Burbank]

I think the big takeaway from this story is that moms rule and dads drool. Okay, you got. The dad is encouraging the theft of the tiles. And then, thankfully, the mom was so meticulous with the notes, they were able to figure out where the tiles came from and then reunite them.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah, moms keep records. Dads encourage larceny. That's what we like to say.

[Luke Burbank]

Exactly. So the fact that these tiles were well preserved and reunited with their rightful home, that's the best news That I heard all week. All right, let's get our first guests on over here. Now, in 2017, they did something truly unique. They launched a podcast that was actually good, and not just good, but meaningful because it was the first podcast ever created and produced in prison. San Quentin Rehabilitation center, to be specific, in California. Now, the show features the daily realities and life for folks inside San Quentin, and it's actually produced in large part by incarcerated people who are living there. In 2020, the show ear Hustle was named a finalist for a Pulitzer Prize. They've also co authored the book this Is Ear. Unflinching Stories of Everyday Prison Life. Here is Earlonne woods and Nigel Poor, recorded live at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon. Take a list. Hello, Nigel and Earlonne. Welcome to Livewire.

[Earlonne Woods]

Thanks for having us.

[Nigel Poor]

Thanks for having us.

[Luke Burbank]

How did you two meet? Earlonne, I know you were incarcerated at the time, but, Nigel, what were you doing at San Quentin? Do you guys remember the actual first time you met each other?

[Nigel Poor]

Well, I always say she was gliding across the yard, and she was a professor there, and I was incarcerated, and I was working in media lab, and she came over and wanted to document her class, which was a class of photography. And we couldn't do it on the. Well, we could do it, but it wasn't enough space to house the videos, so we decided to do audio. And that's. That's really. That's how we ended up meeting.

[Luke Burbank]

And I understand, you know, because you had been incarcerated for a significant amount of time. Is it really true you didn't Earlonne know what a podcast was at that time?

[Earlonne Woods]

Can I just tell this story, please, because it's great. Sorry, Earlonne.

[Nigel Poor]

She took it from you, Luke.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. I apologize to you. I'm sorry. So we had worked on this radio show for a while, and I wanted to change and do something that was more from the perspective of an artist, and I thought we should do a podcast. So Earlonne and I had gotten to know each other, and we got along really well. And I said to Earlonne, do you want to do a podcast? And he said, yes. And then the next thing he said is, what's a podcast?

[Luke Burbank]

But, Earlonne, you had also gotten transferred to San Quentin because of some of the programs there, right?

[Nigel Poor]

Yes. Well, my intention was to always go to San Quentin, but it don't work like that in prison.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, really?

[Nigel Poor]

Nah, it don't. It don't.

[Luke Burbank]

They're kind of into being in charge.

[Nigel Poor]

Well, yeah, you know, it was like I was in this one prison for, like, 12 years, and they wouldn't transfer me. So when you spend a lot of time in a place, you realize how to get around the security stuff. So.

[Earlonne Woods]

Nicely said.

[Nigel Poor]

I recognized that they didn't have a psych program, and I watched about 10 Zoloft commercials.

[Luke Burbank]

So you figured out how to present

[Nigel Poor]

whatever that ball was doing? Yeah, I went in there and just told the psych, like, man, I can't sleep. I'm depressed. Depressed. Whatever that ball was saying, I went in there and it worked. And it literally worked. But I knew one thing not to say, not to say, like, I hear voices. I do. Don't do that one. Everybody suffers from depression sometimes. So I played that as my situation, and I got up out of there like, 60 days later.

[Luke Burbank]

So that was effective.

[Nigel Poor]

That was very effective. But what I realized is that everybody in prison need to go talk to the psych because it's a different perspective from a prisoner or a correctional officer. You actually talking to someone that's, you know, trying to help you advance in life.

[Luke Burbank]

And do you mean that everybody who is incarcerated could use a chance to express their feelings to somebody who's a therapist, or do you mean it's just the best way to get transferred to another prison?

[Nigel Poor]

I mean, it worked out. It worked out, but I think individuals definitely need to talk to a therapist.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. That's something that I want to talk about after the break with Ear Hustle. That I just find so compelling is the way that the people that you're talking to, many of whom are going through incredibly stressful things and are incarcerated and have been treated in an inhumane way. It sometimes feels like it's the first time that person's been able to really talk about their experience and get that off their chest a little bit. You're listening to Livewire Radio from prx. We were talking to Nigel Poor and Earlonne woods from the Ear Hustle podcast. We got much more coming your way in just a moment. Stay with us.

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[Luke Burbank]

Welcome back to Livewire from prx. I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. We are talking to Earlonne woods and Nigel Powell, the folks behind the podcast Ear Hustle. Now, you started this podcast in 2017, and I remember just being in the sort of world of podcasting in the public radio community, and everybody was talking about this. It was really a revelation and something that was unlike anything anybody had heard. Were you surprised at the way that it took off?

[Earlonne Woods]

I think we'll answer this in different ways. I was very surprised, yeah. Because our original idea was to do a podcast to just play inside the California Department of Corrections prison system, which is like 34 prisons.

[Nigel Poor]

About that. 34, 35.

[Earlonne Woods]

So that was the dream. But then we heard about a podcast contest that Radiotopia was putting on and we got permission from the administration to apply to do it. And out of 15, will you do the numbers?

[Nigel Poor]

You're the numbers out of 15. 37 entries in 53 different countries. We end up winning.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Wow.

[Earlonne Woods]

But after we won, we said to each other, oh, now we got to figure out how to do a podcast.

[Luke Burbank]

So you hadn't actually. This was a pitch. You hadn't actually made a show yet.

[Earlonne Woods]

Made a two minute trailer. Trailer. And we had made an episode, but neither of us have a background in audio. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

You're a photography professor.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. So we taught each other how to make a podcast along with eventually some help from prx. But we had the idea. We knew what we wanted to do. On October 5, 2015, we came up with the idea and we wrote out exactly what it was going to be, and it turned out to be exactly that. We just had to learn all the technical stuff.

[Luke Burbank]

Did this go the way you thought it was going to go, Earlonne?

[Nigel Poor]

Exactly. Like, seriously, it was a trip. Because after we won, PRX and Radiotopia came in and I asked him, I said, what is a successful podcast? Like, how many downloads do you need? And he was like, 30,000. You'll be doing good. I'm like, nah, we gonna hit a million. He was like, eh, you know, yeah, first month, 1.5 million downloads. Yeah, I mean, I was. In my mind, I'm only thinking like, it is two point something million people that's incarcerated across the US and if each one of those individuals got five family members, you know, somebody gonna listen in. So that was my thought process.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, I was curious about that. As far as the listenership to the show, who are people who are incarcerated? It obviously varies from institution to institution, but what is the access like to a podcast just to listen to it for an incarcerated person?

[Earlonne Woods]

When it came out, it only was played inside the prisons in California because they have this closed circuit station. So it was in all those prisons. And then for some reason, the prison system in the United Kingdom got interested and it was playing in all the prisons, in 114 prisons there. And then it was in sporadic prisons. But recently this really incredible thing happened. There's a tablet that is now in all of the prisons and jails. Well, like over in 1400, 1500, 1500 jails. And they have a service called the Dova, which is educational system. So now Ear Hustle is heard in, you know, 1500 prisons and jails across the country.

[Luke Burbank]

That's amazing. So it's in the tablet now?

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, yeah, it's in the tablet, which

[Luke Burbank]

for people that don't know, typically incarcerated people, they're. There'll be this tablet that you can try to use to communicate with your family. There's some content on there, but it's heavily regulated. But this now has Ear Hustle on

[Nigel Poor]

it, and I believe they give them out for free.

[Earlonne Woods]

These they give out for free.

[Luke Burbank]

Wow.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, it's a really great product.

[Nigel Poor]

And we just got some stats, I think last month or the month before it said that Ear Hustle has been listened to in jails and prison. 1.1 million hours.

[Earlonne Woods]

Isn't that crazy Hours? I was like, that can't be right.

[Luke Burbank]

But no, Well, I want to actually, for folks that haven't had a chance to hear the show, I wanted to just play a little clip here. But I want to try to set it up if I can, because you have producers that work on the show who are incarcerated people. One of them is Tom Nguyen, right. Who's in San Quentin. And he has been there for a long time, for over 20 years for a crime that he committed when he was pretty young. And he was going to be in there for an indefinite amount of time. But then there was a change in the law, which created a possibility that he might be able to be paroled or released early. And so there was going to be a hearing about that. And that hearing had been delayed and delayed and delayed for, like, over a year. And then finally the day comes, and his. Earl and I know you're down in, like, Los Angeles, and Nigel, you were up in San Quentin, and his girlfriend is trying to sit in on the hearing and this incredibly stressful, important moment in his life. And there's, like, a zoom problem. They can't get his face on the video. So the judge just says, I don't know. We'll come back in two months. And this, Nigel, is you talking to Tom right when he has gotten that news. Can we play that?

[Earlonne Woods]

Okay. It's 11:30. Tom just came back. I heard a heavy sigh.

[Tom Nguyen]

Yeah, I'm just. I'm tired. They pushed me to May 29, and it took them three hours to do that for some reason. It's just a little bit of a. Like, a punch. I was like, damn, it's been over a year now.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah.

[Tom Nguyen]

I felt like. Like the wind taken out of me. I go, damn. I was, like, banking on this, right? I was going to try, you know, just, like, go to Disneyland.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah.

[Tom Nguyen]

Eat a steak.

[Earlonne Woods]

Get your churro.

[Tom Nguyen]

Yeah, get my churro. Get my girl that little. The Minnie mouse ears.

[Dylan Adler]

Yeah.

[Tom Nguyen]

So, damn. I just have to wait.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. It sucks.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah.

[Tom Nguyen]

It's kind of like.

[Margo Silker]

It's.

[Tom Nguyen]

I know.

[Earlonne Woods]

Sorry. I wish. I mean, of course, everyone wishes we could change what happened.

[Tom Nguyen]

Yeah. However, you know what? I try to take a guy's life. You know what? I don't have nothing coming. I wish I had it, but, you know. Yeah. And then I'm trying not to, like, I try to be grateful because you know what? I'm fortunate. I have a. I'm. I appreciate you guys showing up. It means a lot to me. Like, even though, like, it's just. I'm telling you, like, I haven't had a life where people support me a lot.

[Earlonne Woods]

I'm glad you feel that way because I was worried it would actually be more pressure to feel like, oh, there's people waiting. No, I've got to tell them again what happened. And I'm dealing with my own feelings around it, so I'm glad you didn't feel like it was extra.

[Tom Nguyen]

It means a lot to me. I'm telling you, like, I don't have a lot of friends.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah.

[Tom Nguyen]

My girl thought it was sweet, too.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. That's a clip from the Ear Hustle podcast here on Livewire. Listening to you, Nigel, in that moment and Earlonne and other points in the show, when I hear you talking to folks who are going through something as intense as that, how do you. Have you kind of learned how to sort of like, hold space for them and be with someone in those moments?

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. Do you want to talk about it first?

[Nigel Poor]

Me, personally, I try to tell people, like, don't have your hopes up for every court hearing. It's just a hearing. You know, it's not the decision. So, you know, each. Each time an individual have a court appearance, they gonna feel that they a decision is gonna be made that day, but that's not how courts run. So I just try to keep individuals on that thought, because individuals be dejected after a court date and it don't go their way, and they get continuances and continuances. So it really break cats down.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, we do hear a lot of difficult things. I mean, that was hard because of a disappointment. There's all kinds of stuff that we have to talk to people about. And I just try to be as present as possible and have open body language and open facial expression. One thing that's really hard is you can't touch people. So I can't hug somebody. I can't show too much emotion because you can't be over familiar with people. So you have to figure out what that line is. And I just am genuine about how I feel. Like I was sad. I didn't hide that from Tom. And as I said, you can't touch people. So I've come up with this. Can I demonstrate this, please? The hand hug. So. So this. Can you see what we're doing?

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, they're kind of placing. Nigel and Earlonne have their hands together kind of in like a still shot of a high five.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. And then our thumbs are wrapped around each other.

[Luke Burbank]

And you're allowed to do that without.

[Nigel Poor]

No.

[Earlonne Woods]

Oh, so. Oh, no. Well, maybe I am. But to me, that's what I call a hand hug. So when I showed that to Tom, and I did that with Tom, and he knew that was the way I could give him a hug. And so it was quiet, it was small. Yes, it is accepted to do that, but there's a deeper meaning behind it. And so you find ways that are appropriate to show that you care without being what is called over familiar by the prison system.

[Luke Burbank]

I mean, another thing that it brings up is. And you know, people, we talk about the carceral system in this country. There's solitary, which is so obviously dehumanizing. And damaging to people. There's mandatory minimum. There's all this stuff around the law and the way we treat people. But there's a small thing, like the complete disrespect for the time of somebody who's incarcerated, because, like, if the idea is they don't really matter. It doesn't matter that let's just do this in 60 days, and the judge, you know, no shade to that judge, but they'll be out living their life, and everyone who's not incarcerated will be out in their world. This person's life is totally on hold. And that seems to happen all the time with different things all the time.

[Earlonne Woods]

I mean, I feel that people that are imprisoned have really learned what disappointment is and how to deal with it. I've never seen anyone throw a fit because something like that has happened to them. And I really respect that, to learn how to deal with disappointment, because it happens over and over and over again.

[Nigel Poor]

And I think the mindset in prison is you hope for the best, but you prepare for the worst, you know, but you're going to always keep your hopes up that it's going to work out, because that's what keep you going. Hope.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, on the subject of which, Earlonne, your story is, like, so incredible. And you can tell me if I have the timeline and the various elements of this correct. But my sense of it is that, you know, when you started doing your hustle, you were still incarcerated. And the plan, as it were, based on your crimes and what your sentence was, was for you to be in San Quentin for much longer, potentially, before you'd be up for a possible parole. And then by 2018, Governor Jerry Brown of California had commuted your sentence, specifically citing the podcast as evidence of how your life had changed. And you got out. Like, that's crazy.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah, my first.

[Luke Burbank]

You podcasted your way out of prison.

[Elena Passarello]

That's a good podcast.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. Hey, I knew. Hey, I knew it was something about San Quentin, you know?

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, Right.

[Nigel Poor]

But, yeah, my first parole hearing. Not saying I was gonna get out. My first parole hearing was November 2028.

[Luke Burbank]

That's what you were scheduled for.

[Nigel Poor]

That's what I was scheduled for.

[Luke Burbank]

You would not, as you certainly wouldn't be sitting here. You wouldn't even be up for your first possible chance at parole for another however many years that is.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. Now, y' all probably would have got a video or something of me I used to bring about, but no. Yeah, that was my first hearing. And then when Ear Hustle happened, I think it became kind of big. For the system. And I had submitted a commutation application. And usually these things take, like, years to hear. My. I turned it in the day that I was arrested, which was December 28th. I turned it in that day, and within 11 days, I was sitting in front of somebody from the governor's office being interviewed for the commutation. I think it was, like, 13 days, maybe, something like that. It was real fast, and it took about a year to not about 11 months for the process to go through. And the day before Thanksgiving in 2018, I got a call from the governor's office. Not like I got a call, like they called me, but they called the prison, and I had to go down there and get on the phone. And they was like, the governor just wants you to know that he's granting your application, and you will be released forthwith on parole. And they was like, after all the legalities were said, everybody in the background was like, we love Ear Hustle.

[Luke Burbank]

And then you ended up interviewing Jerry Brown.

[Nigel Poor]

As soon as I got out, yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

That is really full circle.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. As soon as I got out, interviewed him. Then I went back after he was out and talked to Governor Newsom. And I think on my sixth year out, Governor Newsom pardoned me.

[Dylan Adler]

Wow.

[Nigel Poor]

Yeah. Which I don't. I don't know what it mean yet. What do you mean? I still can't get TSA PreCheck, but.

[Earlonne Woods]

Which is actually a big concern for us because we travel a lot, so. He always says, I'm going to the privilege line.

[Nigel Poor]

What I always say to you, you

[Earlonne Woods]

go to the privilege line.

[Luke Burbank]

What are you hoping that the show is able to sort of inform? I think, again, so many of us who are not incarcerated spend so little time thinking about these Americans who are incarcerated and how they're being treated. What are you hoping Ear Hustle is able to bring to the wider world of people that aren't in jail or prison?

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. Well, our original goal was to do a show that was about the everyday life in prison as a way to show the commonalities of life between people who are incarcerated and people outside. And our directive is not to intentionally try to change people's minds, but to tell stories that give people the ingredients to come up with their own decision about what they think should happen in prison. And I think when you can relate to somebody through your own experience, you see them in a different way. And so that is my goal, is to show commonalities and to also say that life in prison is as complicated inside as it is outside. That People laugh, people have families, people go through hard times. It can be depressing, but it's many things. And to not tell stories about crime, to not overtly say the prison system is messed up, and to not just tell stories about redemption. Stories about redemption really bother me. I think they're pat and I think they give the message to people that redemption is the only thing that matters. And the complication before people make change, or maybe they never make change are where the really interesting stories are. So we stay away from those topics and concentrate on the everyday. And we love to work with complicated stories. People that you might have mixed feelings about, but you're going to be able to see something in them that you can relate to.

[Luke Burbank]

What about for you, Earlonne?

[Nigel Poor]

I can't go. She just said it.

[Luke Burbank]

Nice. Well, I would just say as a fan of the show, I defy anybody to listen to Ear Hustle and not have it impact the way that they think about incarcerated people, whatever that is, it will have an impact and it's an amazing show. Thanks for doing it. Nigel Poore and Earlonne woods right here on Livewire. That was Earlonne woods and Nigel Poore recorded live at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland. Make sure you check out their incredible podcast, Ear Hustle, wherever you get your shows. Hey, special thanks this episode to Kirsty Bennett of Arlington, Massachusetts and Carol Turtle of Portland, Oregon. Kirsty and Carol are part of the Livewire member community and they're generously supporting the show with a donation each month. And we are so grateful for that support because it is how we can keep this whole thing going. So Carol and Kirstie, thank you for supporting Livewire. This is Livewire from prx. Our next guest is a comedian and musician who was most recently a writer on the Late Late show with James Corden as a sports correspondent where he also performs stand up. He's appeared on Comedy Central, he's been named a comic you should and will know by Vulture magazine. And he was recently a tour opener for the comedian Atsuko Okatsuka. Take a listen to Dylan Adler, recorded live at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon.

[Dylan Adler]

Oh my goodness. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. I'm honored. This is amazing. Okay, before I start my stand up set, I'm very curious about this room. Make some noise if you are queer. I'm not, but I support you Gays.

[Tom Nguyen]

Yes.

[Dylan Adler]

Keep fighting. Your love is beautiful. No, I'm gay. Could you imagine I am gay and have an identical gay twin brother. I know my Mom's uterus is a Dua lipa concert. I don't know what happened. Our sonogram, we were like, My brother and I, we are actually. We're very close. We're really, like, best friends. And I think it's because we were actually the very first people we each ever came out to. This is 100% true. Like, sophomore year of high school, he came up to me. He was shaking. He was like, dylan, I don't know. I think I actually might be attracted to guys. And I was like, ew, don't ever say that again. You know? But then a full year later, I was like, same. I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area. I'm from the Bay Area, which is Asia. It's Asia. I call it Asian Wakanda. And it's true. I loved. The school that I went to was very racially diverse. I enjoyed it. And sophomore year of high school, we actually changed our mascot to better reflect our diverse student body. So we went from James the Cougar to El Gato the cat. That just translates to the cat. The cat. And our school chant went like this. The cat. The cat. The cat, the cat.

[Tom Nguyen]

Brr.

[Dylan Adler]

Kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, Cat, cat, cat. Biblioteca.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yes.

[Dylan Adler]

That's from cats. I, you know, I feel, you know, grew up in the Bay Area, so parents were liberal. Our grandparents, not so much. And we. We recently had to come out to our Japanese grandparents. My brother had a boyfriend. They were coming to visit. My mom decided she would be the one to do it. So she pulled my grandma. My Obaachan aside, she was like, obachan, I have to let you know something. Max and Dylan are both gay. And she was like, well, obviously. As kids, they stole my wigs to dress up as Mulan. So I also. Mulan is Chinese, not Japanese. So culturally inaccurate, but still gay. I think that's okay. We were like, oh, my God, Obachan, thank you so much. We didn't expect this at all. We love you. And she said, I love you guys. Then my mom was like, you never told me that before. I love you. I could be gay. Anyway, we were shocked that our grandparents were even remotely accepting. You know, they just grew up in a different generation. My grandma and her family, they survived Japanese internment during World War II. At the exact same time my grandpa was in Japan, he signed up to be a kamikaze pilot for the Japanese Imperial Army. That is 100% true. And I didn't put that in my college essay. Like a dumb, dumb. Like, I could have gone to Harvard. I could have titled that the War in Me. Are you kidding me? Alberto Rose Theater. I could have submitted a song I could have submitted a song with my application. Half colonizer, half colonized Half internment Half wanna fly But I'm trying to make peace with the Jewish American pilot inside of me. Hey, Mr. Harvard. This is my pearl harbor. That's from Wicked. Deleted song I. So we are very, very close with the Japanese side of my family and my grandpa, my Ojichan. Eight months ago, unfortunately, he did pass away. And my mom texted me while it was happening. She was like, we don't know how much more time Ojichan has left. Do you want to FaceTime to say a final goodbye? I was like, oh my God, yes, of course. I was on FaceTime with my ojichan. I was like, ojichan, I love you so much. Thank you for everything you've done for our family. And I really wanted to tell him thank you in Japanese, but my half white self could not remember what thank you in Japanese was. So what came out of my mouth was, gracias, Domo ari. Gracias, abuelicha. Ohio. Cause I'm a. I was cut out of the will. So I actually, I've never been out of the United States until last year when I was able to open for Atsuko Katsuka in Europe. It was so much fun. I took the train from London to Edinburgh. It was one of the prettiest train rides I've ever taken in my entire life. And on the train there was a Filipino grandma that sat down right next to me. We were chit chatting it up. We were gossiping. It was amazing. Then there was a Scottish couple that walked up to us and said, you are in our seats. Don't you know to check the ticket number of inside? So sorry, Shrek. So we. We check our tickets. We are fully in their seats. I was ready to get up, but this grandma held my hand, looked them in the eye and said, no English. Then I was forced to be like, no, Engrish. Like, I became her Filipino grandson in that moment. You know the craziest part of that story? I fully spoke to both of them in English before saying no English. So here is how that interaction went. Like, sir, stop screaming at us in the middle of the train. This is so inappropriate. Fine, fine, fine. I'm getting up. No Engrish. I okay. I'm actually currently in a relationship. I'm in love and it's the first time I've been in love. It's amazing. And what that's done for me, it is humanized straight love. Does that make sense? Is this what Jim and Pam feel all along? Oh, wow. Love is love, I guess. It was his birthday and he was. I was driving him. He was to my right. I was so nervous. Cause I'm like, oh, my God. He's gonna say I love you. He's gonna say I love you. My heart was beating out my chest. He turned to me and he was like, you have autism, right? I was like, excuse me. Maybe I do now. I will go on TikTok and get diagnosed. All right, so the final thing I'm going to say, I was recently doing a show in beautiful Burbank, California. It was hosted by a very kind white woman named Susan. And before I got on stage, she came up to me. She was like, I'm so happy you're doing our show. I am so sorry. I've actually never said your name out loud before. Is it pronounced Dylon? I was like, now it is Dilon. Dilon is my diversity scholarship name. Yes, I am Dilon from now on. Thank you, Suzanne. No, I love Dylon. Okay. When you all stepped foot in the Albertha Theater, you also stepped foot in the house of Dylon. The house of Dalong. Ga, ga, ga, ga ga. The house of Dalong. Got. I got a gah gah. Dylan is over. He's over. He's gone. Dylan is dead. Cause now it's Dilor. I've been. Dilon Adler, give it up for your incredible host. Thank you for having me.

[Luke Burbank]

That was Dylan Adler recorded live at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland. You can find out when Dylan is coming to a town near [e-mail]. you are listening to Livewire. We have to take a very quick break, but stay tuned because when we come back, you're going to hear from singer songwriter Margo Silker, who joined us for a very special performance from inside a whiskey library. Yeah, that is a real place in Portland. And we were there. Margo is going to be accompanied by her musician cowboy husband, Forrest Van Tiel. He is not just one of those, you know, all hat and no cattle cowboys. No, he's really a cowboy, like rides a horse and makes cows go to places. So they're going to sing us some songs. Coming up in a moment here on Livewire. Welcome back to Livewire. Okay, before we get to this week's musical performance from Margo Silker, a little preview of what we're doing on the show next week. We are going to be talking to the legendary chef and food scientist Kenji Lopez Alt about his quest to sample every teriyaki joint in Seattle. We're also going to talk to music journalist Ann Powers and find out why she initially thought she did not want to write a book about Joni Mitchell. When her publisher approached her with the idea, she came around on it and wrote a great book about Joni. Then we've got some music from singer, songwriter, and former Yale a cappella singer Kuthumu. So that is the plan for next week's show. Make sure you tune in for that. All right, let's get to our musical guest this week, shall we? Along with her musician husband, Forest Van Tiele, singer songwriter Margo Silker alternates between two kinds of seasonal work, ranching and touring. The ranching mostly happens in the Mountain west, while the touring has taken her all over the US And Europe, sometimes alongside such acts as Drive By Truckers. With two critically acclaimed albums under her belt, she's received praise from the likes of Rolling Stone, Pitchfork, and the Guardian. Margo and Forrest joined us for a very special event recorded live at the Multnomah Whiskey Library in Portland, Oregon. Take a listen to this. You all are married and collaborate. Are you able to give each other honest musical feedback without hurting each other? Because I've been in marriages that failed and that wasn't even with musical feedback happening. If we brought that into it, we would have had no chance. Like, how do you talk to each other about your music and give constructive criticism?

[Margo Silker]

Well, we were honest with each other about our music from day one, and I think that sort of helped. We also got engaged four days into a tour.

[Luke Burbank]

If you don't mind me asking, what were the circumstances of the engagement? Like, did you propose for us?

[Forrest Van Tiele]

Yeah, I think so.

[Luke Burbank]

Okay.

[Tom Nguyen]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Was there, like a ring involved or was this just sort of like an agreement? So this. Did you do the whole sort of on one knee kind of a deal?

[Forrest Van Tiele]

No, we were sitting in the.

[Luke Burbank]

In the minivan where all romance happens.

[Forrest Van Tiele]

Yep.

[Nigel Poor]

Yep.

[Luke Burbank]

Actually, the minivan is usually after the romance because you have children and you need to get them around in a vehicle.

[Forrest Van Tiele]

Yeah, we're a little bit. A little bit backwards in that way, but, yeah, you know, we just played a show in Point Arena, California, and we're like, day after the show, we were just hanging out on the cliffs above the ocean, and I just guess I made some kind of offhanded joke about, hey, why don't we just get married? And we had known each other for four days.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, I thought that you. You were already. You knew each other for a long time. It was four days into the tour. No, this was four days into knowing each other.

[Margo Silker]

It was a. Yeah. Cold start.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. I believe. I believe the kids call that a hard launch. It was a very hard launch. Wow. Well, congratulations.

[Nigel Poor]

Thanks.

[Luke Burbank]

And, you know, as they say, membership has its privileges because, Margo, you started a new record label and signed your first artist.

[Margo Silker]

That's right. You're looking at him.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. Wow.

[Forrest Van Tiele]

That's right.

[Luke Burbank]

What is that like, actually, to go from being an artist who's on a label to actually trying to run one yourself?

[Margo Silker]

It's just. Yeah. Building a business from the ground up. But the goal is so clear to just bring people together at shows, and that's really what fuels us. Everyone that's working on this project, it's like just getting people together in real life. And that sort of harkens to the name Fossil Records.

[Luke Burbank]

Fossil Records. How'd you come up with that name? Why did that one strike you?

[Margo Silker]

Well, we're Underground Rock.

[Luke Burbank]

Sound of a Slow Soaker. All right.

[Forrest Van Tiele]

People like it. The people like it.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. We're talking to Margo Silker and Forrest Van Tiele here on Livewire. Coming to you from the Multnomah Whiskey Library this week. Margo, I was sort of reading up on your musical history a little bit in your journey, and I have to say, like, the first time I heard you on the radio, I thought, well, this person was raised in the back of a bar near Lake Pontchartrain where, like, Lucinda Williams worked as a gruff but loving bartender. But you actually grew up, like, in the suburbs of California you've talked about. When did you start to go towards this style of music, and when did it start to really resonate with you?

[Margo Silker]

Well, that's a good question. I grew up in a family of, you know, there was music. I grew up singing in church. I would sing with my Nana Esther and all the cousins together, and my sister sings with me. So there's always this background of music. And it was a little out of place to be in the suburbs of San Francisco doing that kind of thing. You know, I don't think you're even allowed to really, like, have a campfire in Los Altos, California.

[Luke Burbank]

Very dangerous.

[Margo Silker]

I know that there are windows when you're allowed to do that, but, yeah, I started touring around. I went to Montana, and people were very receptive to songs like Delta Dawn. You know, they're like, bring the Tonya Tucker, let's go.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, can we hear a song.

[Margo Silker]

Yeah. This song is called Lowland Trail. And Forestier is going to play the lick for us.

[Livewire Announcer]

Moving high up the canyon side I'm looking for a lowland trail Got these miles before me and miles behind Looking for a lowland trail Looking for a lowland trail I'm looking for a lowland trail Got hills to climb in my own sweet time Looking for a lowland trail I looking for a lowland trail. We got trouble coming up where it could have been love I've seen it on a lowland trail you put it all on the line it just wasn't enough so you go back to a lowland trail Looking for a lowland trail I'm a pilgrim on a lowland trail Got hills to climb in my own sweet time Looking for a lowland trail I'm looking for a low I'm looking for a lowland trail Just looking for lowland trail Got hills to climb in my own sweet time Looking for a low land trail I Looking for a lowland trail Looking for love Looking for low I'm looking for lowland TR.

[Luke Burbank]

That was Margo Silker along with Forrest Van Tiele, recorded live at the Multnomah Whiskey Library in Portland, Oregon. You can find out when Margo is going to be near you by going to MargosilkerMusic.com all right, that's going to do it for this week's episode of Livewire. A huge thanks to our guests Earlonne woods and Nigel Penn, plus Dylan Adler and Margo Silker. Special thanks to the Multnomah Whiskey Library.

[Elena Passarello]

Laura Haddon is our executive producer and Melanie Zevchenko is our producer and editor. Eben Hoffer is our technical director, Trey Hester is our assistant editor, Valentine Keck is our operations director, and Ashley park is our marketing manager.

[Luke Burbank]

Our house sound is by Dee, Neil Blake and our house band is Eyal Alves, Matt Sheehy, Ethan Fox, Tucker, and A. Walker Spring, who also composes our music. This episode was mixed by Eben Hoffer and Trey Hester.

[Elena Passarello]

Additional funding provided by the Marie Lamprum Charitable Foundation. Livewire was created by Robin Tenenbaum and Kate Sokoloff.

[Luke Burbank]

This week we'd like to thank members Kirsty Bennett of Arlington, Massachusetts and Carol Turtle of Portland, Oregon. For more information about our show or how you can listen to our podcast, head on over to livewireradio.org I'm Luke Burbank for Elena Passarello and the whole Livewire crew. Thank you for listening and we will see you next week. Hey, if you appreciate the work that Livewire is doing to amplify riveting and unexpected voices to a national audience. And I gotta tell you, it's a big audience these days. Please, please, please consider offering some monthly support by becoming a member of our League of Extraordinary Listeners. Here's how it works. Membership starts at just five bucks a month and there are great perks at every level, including a special shout out on the broadcast. Impress your friends by being shouted out on Livewire. It means the world to a us and really does make it possible for us to do the show. So please, if you can help, support us by visiting livewireradio.org Memberships.

[Earlonne Woods]

From prx.