Luke Burbank (1:58)

O.Com this episode of LiveWire was recorded in October of 2022. We hope you like it.

Elena Passarello (2:04)

Now let's get to the show from prx.

Livewire Announcer (2:09)

It's Livewire.

Elena Passarello (2:17)

This week, comedian and writer Ginny Hogan.

Ginny Hogan (2:20)

I am not legally permitted to get mad at you for speaking with ex lovers, as this relationship is undefined. But I am permitted to be vaguely passive aggressive for several days. Should they like One of your Instagrams.

Elena Passarello (2:32)

And poet Anees Mochgani.

Anees Mojgani (2:34)

I love a holy sunset, which feels as if the sky is praying to me.

Elena Passarello (2:40)

To us, with music from Jimmy Harad and our fabulous house band. I'm your announcer, Elena Passarello. And now the host of Livewire, Luke Burbank.

Ginny Hogan (2:54)

Hey.

Luke Burbank (2:55)

Thank you so much, Elena. Thanks to everyone for tuning in. We got a great show in store for you this week. We have asked the Livewire listeners a question, which was, what is your biggest dating red flag? We're going to be talking dating with the very funny Ginny Hogan coming up, and we're going to reveal the audience response to that question in just a bit. First, though, of course, we gotta kick things off with the best news we heard all week. This is our reminder right here at the top of the show that there is some good news happening out there in the world. Alaina, what is the best news that you heard this week?

Elena Passarello (3:32)

Okay, definitely the best news for me. Maybe not the best news for the whole world, but, you know, I'm a little bit of a quarter hound. I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm a numismatist.

Luke Burbank (3:43)

Okay.

Elena Passarello (3:43)

When I was growing up, I loved when they came out with all those quarters. And I know I brought this up before. I brought it up when it was announced, but the best news for me is that it's here. The first Asian American to appear on US Currency is happening on the back of one of those new quarter series. And it's Anna May Wong.

Luke Burbank (4:03)

Oh, right.

Elena Passarello (4:04)

Yeah. She's amazing. She's one of the first movie stars, period. Born in Los Angeles, starred in her first movie when she was 17 years old 100 years ago. So it's a special time for her to be remembered. She was among five women that were selected to be on the back of this first series of quarters. The Mint. The US Mint selected Maya Angelou and Sally Ride. And the public selected Wilma Mankiller, Nina Otero Warren and Anna May Wong, who fought casting stereotypes. She advocated for greater representation of Asian American performers throughout her four decade long career. She was a major fashion icon. And you can really see that on the quarter.

Luke Burbank (4:47)

I was gonna say she looks so stylish. I saw a photo of what this quarter is gonna look like.

Elena Passarello (4:51)

I feel like people are gonna take the quarter to their stylist and their hair stylist and be like, can you give me this cut? Which never has happened in a quarter or any kind of coin before. People are being like, give me that Alexander Hamilton.

Luke Burbank (5:02)

Nobody walked in with a picture of Ben Franklin saying, make this happen.

Elena Passarello (5:06)

Although I have had that haircut before. Anyway, I'm just really glad that. I'm also glad that they announced their next series of quarters, and they include pilot Bessie Coleman, ballerina Maria Tallchief, and the first lady herself is Eleanor Roosevelt. So anyway, I haven't really been using coins that much, you know, like everybody else. I've kind of been just, like, using my card and my phone for everything. But I think I might just get, like, rolls and rolls of quarters and only pay in quarters now because all of my quarters are going to be, like, amazing women, American women, which I can't wait for.

Luke Burbank (5:42)

It really would feel like an artifact to me, like something that was valuable beyond the 25 cents that it's worth or whatever.

Elena Passarello (5:48)

Yeah. And, you know, they find. Speaking of artifacts, people will find coins in Europe in the dirt that are, like, from the time of Julius Caesar. And they have heads on them. Right. Usually Caesar's head. And that could happen now with Anna May Wong's quarters. It could be found thousands of years later, and people would know that she was representative of our times and very.

Luke Burbank (6:10)

Very stylish on that quarter. Tell you what.

Elena Passarello (6:12)

Yeah.

Anees Mojgani (6:12)

Yeah.

Luke Burbank (6:13)

The best news that I saw this week, or at least learned about this week, Alaina comes from Colorado, from the Silverton, Colorado area. Imagine that you are riding on a train in, like, the wilderness of Colorado, specifically the Durango and Silverton narrow gauge Diesel engine number 461, and you're just kind of staring out the window at, like, these cliffs and this river, the Animas river, is the one that is part of this story. And you just look out across this river and there is just a person on the other side of the river frantically waving at you, just like, please help me. That is exactly what happened recently to a woman who was on the train looking out the window, who saw across the river an injured hiker, a woman from New Mexico in her 20s. She's not named in the piece, but we have some details. Who had gone on a day hike in this area, was trying to take a picture. Be careful out there, folks, with the photographs and the nature. She tumbled down this cliff, lost consciousness, broke her leg, and was out there for, like, two days trying to flag down trains that were going by on this rail line.

Elena Passarello (7:26)

So she did it more than once.

Luke Burbank (7:28)

Yeah. Also, the hero in the story is not named the woman who was looking out the window of the train and actually noticed this. But finally, this hiker got someone's attention. And then this woman immediately called back to the conductor who stopped the train, got out, checked on the woman from across the river. By the way, the river is like freezing cold and rushing very quickly, so it was kind of dangerous to cross it. Fortunately, there was another train pretty close behind this one and that had a married couple on board who were the engineer and the fireman. Nick and Kyla Breeden were driving the train that was behind. And so that train stopped. It had like 327 people on it. They were like, everybody just hang tight, we gotta deal with this. They went down, they crossed the river, this freezing cold rushing river to administer first aid to this hiker and give her some food and some blankets and to just kinda like make sure she was okay. Amazingly, she was doing all right considering what she'd been through. So they call a life flight helicopter. Problem is the helicopter cannot land over on the banks of the river where the injured hiker is. And so they have to land the helicopter on the other side. And so they have to do this very involved sort of rope based rescue system where they basically like get these ropes set up and this backboard and they get this hiker across the river. Meanwhile, Kyla has just been there the whole time with her, just administering aid. The train is now gone and she's just there taking care of her. They get her across the river, they get her on the helicopter and they get her to the hospital where she's actually doing remarkably well.

Elena Passarello (9:01)

Oh my goodness. Two trains in a helicopter.

Luke Burbank (9:04)

I mean, I guess maybe the takeaway is it's good to stare out of the window of a train and daydream a little bit because you might see somebody who needs help. They also mention in the story that the woman who spotted the injured hiker and her husband were given free train tickets for the ride. Their ticket was totally comped.

Elena Passarello (9:24)

They earned their fare.

Luke Burbank (9:27)

So I guess all's well that ends well out there in Silverton, Colorado. So that's the best news that I heard this week. All right, let's say hi to our first guest. She is a writer and standup comic whose work has appeared in the New Yorker, the Atlantic and the New York Times. Her book, I'm More Dateable Than a Plate of Refried Beans hilariously details the ups and downs of modern romance through such pieces as Was the Breakup A True Crime Investigation? Take a listen to this. It's our conversation with Ginny Hogan recorded in front of a live audience at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon. Hello.

Ginny Hogan (10:15)

Hi. Thanks. For having me.

Anees Mojgani (10:16)

Hi.

Luke Burbank (10:17)

Thank you for being on the show. Are you worried that the title of this book, I'm more Dateable than a Plate of Refried Beans, could come off as too cocky?

Ginny Hogan (10:29)

I mean, I've tweeted the title and had people respond. No, I've gotten pushback on it. So I think in many ways it keeps me humble because I put it out there and people who disagree have told me.

Luke Burbank (10:44)

I read that you started out not in comedy, but as a data scientist.

Ginny Hogan (10:48)

Yes, I worked at a mayonnaise company.

Luke Burbank (10:52)

What was the mayonnaise related data that you were sciencing?

Ginny Hogan (10:58)

It's a really great question. I wish I could tell you. I looked at a lot of sales data on where different flavors of mayonnaise sold best, but we didn't sell a lot of mayonnaise. So it was a pretty. I could eyeball it and tell you.

Luke Burbank (11:14)

Yeah, but. So you. You started a blog while you had that job? You started a blog where you were kind of using data analysis on, like, your dating profile and other people's profiles?

Ginny Hogan (11:26)

Yeah, mostly mine. And I guess the men who were unlucky enough to match with me. So I. I worked at Facebook for a little while and I was given ad credit to run ads. And I thought that was so dumb because who wants to run Facebook ads? But I started making, like, dating ads for myself and running them as a joke.

Luke Burbank (11:44)

So when you say you got ad credit because you worked at Facebook, you were allowed to also make Facebook ads for yourself?

Ginny Hogan (11:50)

Yes. For free.

Elena Passarello (11:51)

You could advertise whatever you wanted.

Ginny Hogan (11:53)

I could advertise. And, you know, other people I worked with had really smart ideas, like they sold their ad credit to places that wanted them, but I didn't think of that. So I ran ads where it was like a picture of me and then like a funny saying. It was one of those things where I was hoping it would work, and when it didn't work, I pretended it had been a bit. The whole time I was thinking maybe I would meet someone. I put my actual number on it, and no one texted.

Odoo Sponsor Voice (12:21)

So.

Ginny Hogan (12:24)

And then basically I got some statistics on which ads performed better. And then I wrote this blog post that was kind of satirical, but kind of a data analysis post. And then I kept doing that with other apps, and the data analysis got sloppier and sloppier. And I got complaints from people being like, your statistics are really bad. And then I just gave up and made it just a funny blog.

Luke Burbank (12:44)

Those are people who really get it.

Ginny Hogan (12:45)

They really. Yeah, yeah.

Luke Burbank (12:47)

You're like, very funny satirical thing that's using a small amount of data. But they were like.

Ginny Hogan (12:51)

But actually, yeah, that's actually exactly what it was like.

Luke Burbank (12:54)

One of the things you write about in the book is trying to kind of unpack dates of yours. Calling you quirky or thinking of you as quirky. Is that something that you've gotten a lot over the course of your dating life?

Ginny Hogan (13:08)

I feel like the more excited I am on dates, the more likely someone will call me quirky. But I think more recently, I. I haven't had the energy to fake it. So now they say nothing. They don't.

Luke Burbank (13:29)

One of the things that you talk about a lot in your comedy, too, is your sobriety. I'm curious, when did you get sober?

Ginny Hogan (13:36)

Almost four years ago.

Luke Burbank (13:38)

And yeah, you guys, thank you. I mean, if you are comfortable talking about it, what got you to that decision?

Ginny Hogan (13:47)

Since I was doing so much standup, I was out every night and just kind of drinking more and more. And a lot of the time in standup, you get paid in free drinks. And it kind of just sort of slowly unraveled. And then I moved to Los Angeles and took a break from stand up for like a month. And that was kind of what. What compelled me to do it. But it was. It was pretty hard to start doing standup again without drinking, I guess. But I will say it's kind of. It's kind of necessary because standup is like an endorphin rush. So it kind of felt like at some point I was like, I don't know how anyone stays sober without doing standup. And it's sort of like it's for better and for worse. Like, in the way that you can, like, have fun drunk nights and also disasters. Like, you still get that with stand up. And so it's a good substitute. Yeah, it is kind of in many ways a perfect substitute. But it took me a while to get back into stand up after that because in many ways, stand up is, like, the reason I had been drinking so much and I hadn't. I don't think I'd ever perform stand up sober until. Until I quit drinking altogether.

Luke Burbank (14:45)

This is Livewire from prx. We're listening to an interview with Ginny Hogan about her book, I'm more dateable than a plate of refried beans. We gotta take a quick break, but don't go anywhere much. More with Ginny in a moment. Look, I'm not saying that I have a coffee problem, but I am definitely telling you that I am reaching for yet Another cup of coffee. And if you know exactly where I'm coming from, let me tell you about Fetch Coffee Roasters right here in Portland. They're small batch, women owned. And here is the kicker. Every bag that you buy sends a dollar to a dog in need. Think about it. Fetch Coffee Roaster. So basically, right now, your coffee addiction, you can consider that to be like philanthropy, which is amazing. They are right now roasting a special blend for Livewire. It's called Get Wired. Plus, they've got their great regular roast lineup, like Muddy Paws and Zoomies. And if you want to get 15% off right now, as a Livewire listener, all you got to do is use code Livewire. This is on your first order. Use the code livewire@fetchgroasters.com Fetch coffee Wagtails. Welcome back to Livewire. I'm your host, Luke Burbank, here with Elena Passarello. We're listening to an interview we recorded with Ginny Hogan about her book, I'm More Dateable than a Plate of Refried Beans recorded in front of a live audience here in Portland, Oregon. Take a listen. This book is so funny and it has. There's so many different kind of formats that you use to kind of talk about dating life these days. And one of the things that seems to come through in this book is that a challenge of dating in the modern moment is the undefined nature of a lot of relationships and trying to figure out what that exactly is. And you have this really funny chapter, Terms and Conditions for Being My Undefined Partner. And I was just wondering, it's sort of listed out like any contract you might sign for any cell phone plan or whatever. I was wondering, could you read some of this?

Ginny Hogan (16:57)

Absolutely. And I will say, as a freelancer, I sign so many contracts without reading them. So this is my first time actually reading a contract. Okay. This piece is called Terms and Conditions for Being My Undefined Partner. Number one. Introduction and Acceptance of agreement. The following shall define an undefined relationship entered into between me, me, me and you, you, Hank. This agreement is a binding contract wherein we can engage in an undefined partnership. These terms and conditions contain legal obligations for ensuring the smooth execution of this undefined relationship. And it is advisable that you read them closely prior to commitment, as you requested that the following be drawn up. When I asked, what are we? For the 19th time, Ex lover disclosure. It is advised that you disclose any undefined or defined partners from your past. If you have them, which I prefer you do not, please also include when you last spoke to them. Whether or not you think they're better looking than me and their Social Security numbers, this is just for my accountant. I don't personally care. Although if theirs has more sevens than mine, I will be jealous. I am not legally permitted to get mad at you for speaking with ex lovers, as this relationship is undefined, but I am permitted to be vaguely passive aggressive for several days should they like one of your Instagrams. Meeting important people in my life. When you meet friends or anyone with whom I consider myself on amicable terms, you cannot say you're my friend as that hurts my feelings. But you also can't say we're dating, as that will confuse me. You may meet my parents, but only by accident and only if you're not aware they're my parents. You may not call them by their first names until we've been married five years, should the relationship come to that. TV shows. I will pick what we watch until you decide you'd like to make this official. This is a standard clause for all undefined relationship agreements, according to my friend who once thought about applying to law school because her floral prints Etsy business was doing poorly. If you'd like to suggest a show, I'd like to suggest a change in relationship status. Intellectual property rights. I own the right to tweet out anything funny that we say in conversation because I have a bigger following. If something comes up in conversation that I don't intend to use on my Twitter, you may ask my permission to use it on yours. Although please be aware that this will make you look pathetic, I will be unlikely to retweet as our relationship is undefined. For more frequent retweets, consider changing the designation of this relationship. Limitation of liability or disclaimer. I don't know what this means. If you'd like this clause removed from the agreement, consider defining the relationship. Termination. Please don't. By clicking the Agree button, you give me permission to tell everyone in my life that we are officially undefined partners.

Luke Burbank (20:34)

That's Ginny Hogan reading from her book I'm more Dateable than a Plate of refried Beans here on Livewire. Now, I follow you on Twitter and have for a good while and I feel like you. I see you tweeting about a boyfriend. Are you now in a relationship?

Ginny Hogan (20:50)

I am, yeah. I try to keep it ambiguous on Twitter because I use old jokes all the time. I don't want to be.

Luke Burbank (20:58)

The Hogan brand is of someone who's being frustrated in the dating space.

Ginny Hogan (21:02)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And sometimes when I'M single. I need to tweet out an old joke about an old boyfriend. I need to. I have needs. I don't know.

Luke Burbank (21:09)

Well, that's what I was wondering is if it makes it more difficult for you to write material about dating and the challenges of that when you're actually in a happy, fulfilling relationship.

Ginny Hogan (21:19)

I wouldn't say I'm in a happy, fulfilling relationship.

Luke Burbank (21:28)

All right, Ginny. So oftentimes when we have guests on the show, we like to give them them a quiz of some kind, leaning on their expertise. But actually, in your book, I'm More Dateable than a Plate of Refried Beans, you actually have written a quiz that's a real stumper. And we thought that it might be interesting to pose this quiz and these questions to you to see how you respond since you've done this for your readers. Unfortunately, we cannot use the original title from your book on air because it involves the F word. So we have decided to borrow an alternate FCC approved title from the esteemed British documentary series Love Island. By the way, shout out to our production intern, Tunvi, who is our resident Love island expert. So instead of fmk, we're going with Snog Mary Pie for the person who has been dating too long. So in case people are unfamiliar, you must instantly decide who you want to spend the rest of your life with out of these three options. So to spend the rest of your life with them, that's Mary. Or if you want to snog them, which is defined as a long sexual kiss between two people who are holding each other, or if you want to throw a pie at them, that's pie. Don't blame us. Blame Love Island. So, of these three, who do you snog? Who do you marry? Who do you throw a pie at? Your sexual partner who doesn't talk to their mom, your sexual partner who talks to their mom for two hours every day, or your sexual partner who treats you like their mom.

Ginny Hogan (23:08)

I'm gonna marry the third one.

Luke Burbank (23:10)

Okay, you're gonna marry the person who treats you like their mom.

Ginny Hogan (23:12)

That's a position of power. I. I will snog the one who talks to his mom for two hours a day, and I will pie the one who doesn't talk to his mom.

Luke Burbank (23:29)

Okay. All right.

Ginny Hogan (23:31)

Which feels harsh because maybe he has a good reason, but, you know, all right.

Luke Burbank (23:34)

Snog mary pie, the OkCupider who sends you a copy pasted 200 word message. The OkCupiter who only speaks in one word answers, or the OkCupider who uses more Emojis than words.

Ginny Hogan (23:50)

I'm gonna marry the one word answer guy. That's my type. I think I will pie the copy paste message and I'll snog the more emojis than words.

Luke Burbank (24:01)

Nice. You don't find too many emojis to be a turn off.

Ginny Hogan (24:04)

I do, but I had to pick.

Luke Burbank (24:08)

Life is full of hard decisions, isn't it? All right, a couple more here. Snog Mary Pie with Ginny Hogan, the person with six roommates but also six streaming service accounts to choose from. The person who has their own apartment but no Netflix. Or the person who lives two hours away but really and truly loves you.

Ginny Hogan (24:29)

I think I wrote this when I was more into television than I am now because I'm definitely going to marry the one with his own apartment who lives near me. I guess I should marry the one who loves me. All right, I'm going to take it back.

Luke Burbank (24:43)

True love or their own apartment.

Ginny Hogan (24:47)

Okay, I'll marry that one. I will snog the own apartment guy and I'm gonna have to pie the one with the roommates. Even though, you know, honestly, I'd marry any of these guys.

Luke Burbank (24:58)

All right, one more. The snog mary pie, the 32 year old who says they're not looking for anything serious. The 38 year old who says they're too young to settle down, or the 23 year old who says they love older women. By the way, you're 27.

Ginny Hogan (25:17)

Honestly, I wrote this when I was younger and I'm now dating a 25 year old who says he loves older women. So I guess I'll snog that one.

Anees Mojgani (25:24)

I'll.

Luke Burbank (25:26)

But only snog.

Ginny Hogan (25:28)

I don't. In the event that he listens to this, I don't want to speed things up. I'm going to marry the. I'll marry the 32 year old because it sounds like I'll have some time and develop love. I'll. And I will pie the 38 year old.

Elena Passarello (25:45)

Good choice.

Luke Burbank (25:45)

All right, those are sage choices from Ginny Hogan. Ginny Hogan, thank you so much for coming on Livewire. That was Ginny Hogan right here on Livewire. Her book, I'm More Dateable than a Plate of Refried Beans is available now. Hey, special thanks this episode to Carlos Osejo of Vancouver, Washington, and Eric Rimkite of Portland, Oregon. Carlos and Eric are part of the Livewire member community and are generously supporting our show with a donation each month, which is a really big deal to us because it is genuinely what helps us Keep doing the show like it's how we're able to do it, thanks to the support of folks like Carlos and Eric. So thank you so much for supporting Livewire. You're listening to Livewire from prx. Of course, each week, we ask our listeners a question. In honor of Ginny Hogan's exploration of the world of dating. We asked the listeners, what is your biggest dating red flag? Elena has been collecting up those responses. What are you seeing?

Elena Passarello (26:59)

Okay, how about this one from Beau? I hope none of these, by the way, actually happened to the people who sent them in. Please.

Luke Burbank (27:07)

This is one of the few times we're hoping the listeners are lying to us.

Elena Passarello (27:10)

I hope it's all just fiction. I hope this is a lovely novel of things that never occur to real life. Beau suggests that Beau's biggest dating red flag is if they ask to get matching tattoos on the first date. I feel like I should ask you. So I have, like, never been on a date, like, ever, and so.

Luke Burbank (27:29)

But you're married.

Elena Passarello (27:30)

Not one that I know of. Like, sometimes I would be out with somebody and I'd realize that it was a date. But since I grew up in the theater, like, you're kind of just always hanging out with someone, and then all of a sudden you're married to them. Like, that's the way that it goes.

Luke Burbank (27:41)

That was your journey of love with David?

Elena Passarello (27:43)

Yeah. No dates. But I want to know if any of these things have happened to you, because I know you have been on dates, right?

Luke Burbank (27:50)

I have been on a few dates in my day.

Elena Passarello (27:52)

So did anybody ever ask you to get matching tattoos?

Luke Burbank (27:54)

No one's proposed matching. I mean, I may have. I mean, on a date or two, but, I mean, listen, that can go one of two ways. It's like, I would imagine a lot of the stuff we're gonna hear from these audience members, they're really red flags if you don't like the person.

Anees Mojgani (28:08)

Right.

Luke Burbank (28:09)

Like, if you were swooning for the person and they said, let's run away together or let's get matching tattoos today, you could be very into it.

Elena Passarello (28:17)

Okay, well, how about this one then from Jim? When they ask about your mother's maiden name and the first pet you had as a child. When I first read that, I just thought it was like, oh, this person hates small talk. But no, it's just an identity theft situation.

Luke Burbank (28:33)

Yeah, but, you know, a lot of these online things now will have, like, a pretty involved series of questions, like, what was the first kind of car you had? Or what's your Favorite city or your favorite flavor of ice cream. And those things change for me depending on the week. And so then I'm trying to remember, what did I tell Chase bank was my favorite ice cream in 2018?

Elena Passarello (28:54)

Favoritism is so subjective.

Luke Burbank (28:56)

Exactly. What's another red flag from one of our listeners?

Elena Passarello (28:59)

I dig this one from Hannah. When he disappears every full moon.

Luke Burbank (29:06)

Check under his collar. How hirsute is it?

Elena Passarello (29:09)

Yeah, exactly. What's the body hair situation? Although, Teen Wolf, that guy was a great prom date. And they did a choreographed dance with the whole high school that looked like fun.

Luke Burbank (29:18)

Absolutely. So maybe good prom date, not a great life partner.

Elena Passarello (29:22)

Yeah. Yes.

Luke Burbank (29:23)

The werewolves.

Anees Mojgani (29:24)

Yeah.

Luke Burbank (29:25)

All right, well, thank you so much to everyone who answered our listener. We really appreciate it. Our next guest is a two time national Poetry Slam champion, the winner of the International World Cup Poetry Islam, and served two terms as the Poet laureate of Oregon. That is how good he is, my friends. His work has appeared on HBO and in the pages of the New York Times, as well as six books of poetry. He is Anees Mojgani. And back when we recorded this in 2022, Anise was serving as the Poet laureate of the state of Oregon. So we talked about that. Take a listen to this. It's Anise Mojgani here on Livewire.

Anees Mojgani (30:10)

Evening. Evening. This is a little poem I wrote recently. Do you remember after, when we were eating chicken and rice, when I said to you that I always love you, but today, right now, I'm in love with you? And you smiled sheepishly and sweetly and at the same time, and I said your face looked like an ocean agate, glowing. Do you remember this? Surely you must. It was just last week and it was such a sweet thing for me to have said to you and such a sweet way for you to have made me feel so sweet. I had to write it down here for you, for me, for both of us.

Luke Burbank (31:12)

Aneese Moshgani, everyone. That would have to be the quickest. I've gone from not crying to crying on this show. Like that was zero to tearing up just from those words like how beautiful and sweet that was.

Anees Mojgani (31:31)

That's why I get paid the mediocre dollars.

Luke Burbank (31:35)

Anise, welcome back to the show. Now, we have been trying to get you back on for. For kind of a long time. And usually there was a scheduling issue because you're currently the Poet laureate of Oregon.

Anees Mojgani (31:47)

That is correct.

Luke Burbank (31:49)

What are the actual duties of being the poet laureate?

Anees Mojgani (31:52)

I mean, on paper, the duties are to make 10 appearances a year and so, of course, in the pandemic, that is a little bit of a different thing of what constitutes an appearance. The duty of it is to be a steward to and for poetry, to and for the people of Oregon. And so, however, which way I find the ways to make that happen is what I do to explore over the tenure of my appointment.

Luke Burbank (32:21)

So are you sort of the number one promoter of poetry or keeper of, I don't know, the flame of interest in poetry?

Anees Mojgani (32:28)

There is a flame, and the flame needs tending. So I'll say this story and perhaps that'll, like, help illustrate. I was getting a burrito with my friend Jen. And we're sitting at this table. It's an outdoor food lot. And there's this person that's yelling for their friend from the back of the lot to come towards them. And they're kind of, like, joshing their bud. They're just like, hey, you creeper, come on, let's go. And so Jen and I are chuckling, and then their friend starts making their way towards the front. And their decor was so wonderful. They had, like, a mullet and they needed a shave. And they had this big, swarthy 80s mustache and one dangly earring and motorcycle gloves and a motorcycle jacket and then this, like, hot, bright neon pink baseball cap. While they're walking past, they sort of, like, look over and see Jen and I, and this grin pops up on their face, and they're just like, hey, Poet Laureate, and fist bumps me, and they're like, I'll see you at your next show. And they hop on their bike and drive off with this bright silver sparkle motorcycle helmet. And I was saying to Jen, like, that's the engagement that should be with everybody and every poet all the time, you know? And so if, as laureate, I'm able to, like, carve us a little bit closer to arriving there, you know, then that's my task at hand.

Luke Burbank (34:13)

It sounds like it's working, at least with that guy.

Anees Mojgani (34:16)

With that guy.

Luke Burbank (34:19)

I overheard you and Elena talking about backstage about this project you've been doing on Friday nights where you're delivering poetry from a window.

Anees Mojgani (34:27)

Yes.

Luke Burbank (34:28)

See, Poet Laureate.

Anees Mojgani (34:31)

Yeah. So, like, in February, I got this new art studio not too far from my house, and it has, like, it's a very bland building. And the window of it just kind of looks like the kind of window where there would be no signage, but it would just. You would know that you could wrap your fist on the window and hand somebody $5 when it opens, and you would be handed a great to Mediocre sub, you know. And my friend Jen, the same Jen from the poet laureate situation, had like, come by and knocked on the window, and I didn't pass her a sandwich, but we were like, just sort of conversing through the window. And we're like, this is super fun. This feels very much like very Americana. This feels like Very 227 or Sesame Street. And we're like, we should, like, do this with other people, whatever that means. And we're like, yeah, let's do that. And she was like, you could read poems. I was like, I could read poems. She was like, you want to do that tomorrow? And I was like, not tomorrow. She's like, what about the next day? I was like, I'll do the next day. So, you know, I made a poster and threw it up on Instagram and 50, 60 folks came out and threw down chairs and blankets on the sidewalk and street and listened to me say poems. And a couple weeks after that, we did it again and there was 120 people. And ever since then, we've been doing it, you know, every two, three weeks. And it happens on Fridays at sunset. The big reason or the big thing that we seek to do with this space is to create something that is non expectational, non transactional, that it's simply an invitation to share space with other humans. And so, you know, however, which way that one is going to do that, you know, of course, the hope is that the way that an individual does that is not by causing a ruckus, but, like, but, you know, that it's not. We don't want to create a show that is asking people to be present in a certain way. You know, that I'm going to do a song and dance and they in turn are going to, like, give applause. It's just going to be that we're going to share, you know, 40 minutes under dust together, and that'll be that nice.

Luke Burbank (36:59)

Well, can we hear another poem?

Anees Mojgani (37:01)

Certainly.

Luke Burbank (37:06)

What are you going to share with us next, Luke?

Anees Mojgani (37:08)

This is a poem called Things I Love.

Luke Burbank (37:11)

All right, this is Aneesh Mozghgani here on Livewire.

Anees Mojgani (37:15)

Things I love the blues a night sky makes the bowls it holds for the stars to shine inside of the sound of a fire moving its tongue against the wood. Riding bicycles with friends, learning of the lives of others, Getting to know our best and worst birthdays. I love a holy sunset which feels as if the sky is praying to me, to us, asking us to look at it and know the fierce colors which lay in its clouds that even the sky needs but the right hour, the right person looking at it, knowing what beauty it holds just inside, waiting to pour forth. I love the crows en masse, they're crossing inside that prayer bunched together in their loudness at day's end, their flight looking like the sky breaking apart to spread itself further. I love a spreading further in order to come closer to see what we might arrive at, a wandering with intent. I love not making plans and making plans, scheming schemes, building the idea of an art like it was a boat becoming bigger upon being greeted by the water it asks to touch it. I love how the ocean wants to hold us but doesn't know how. Love that even the ocean does know things, that even the ocean struggles to move against its nature and in this way maybe becomes more I love colors, how they lay on us and hold us when they make an object but a plane of their shade, the way they solid and smooth and spill and wash pale or so deep. I love colors so much. How do I love a thing so much that has no form, nothing to touch? Simply is though, is this not, I suppose, what all love is? Even an object holding our love is but a placeholder so that we can try to actually touch the intangible in our palms. How the body too is like this. I love writing love poems, more so the living of them, love writing in ink a scrap of a note even as my desk becomes flooded by scraps of notes, whether they say fuzzy rhythmic vocals or a sunflower taught me a poem or or the emptiness amissing or are simply measurements of my sleeves. I love when the sun lands on one spot, love eating fruit off a bush on a street or pulled from a tree or fallen from a branch like a gift, hugging friends goodbye even though I hate goodbyes when full houses become empty. But for me, when an emptied house becomes full, learning something new. The thought of sewing a quilt with a friend and their mother and taking February to begin piano lessons. The piano. How I love the piano. I love when someone plays the piano when you didn't know they could play the piano, when they don't feel they know how to play the piano but there they are in the soft quiet that kisses the two of you playing it. And my heart in this soft quiet is going from bud to bloom to petals on a floor in one breath. I love that people want to share things with each other even when sometimes we do not know how to do this.

Luke Burbank (40:29)

I love this.

Anees Mojgani (40:35)

Is this not to what love itself is? You sharing you and Me sharing, me and us sharing and being shared with each other back and forth for whatever length always may be. Thank you.

Luke Burbank (40:57)

Anice Moshgani here on Livewire. That was poet Anis Mojgani. His latest book of poetry, the Tigers They Let Me, is available right now. I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. We've got to take a quick break, but. But don't go anywhere. When we come back, you're going to hear some music from Jimmy Harad which you do not want to miss. Stay with us. More Livewire right around the corner. Hey, it's your friend Luke reminding you, as if you didn't already know, that Livewire has sort of always been a show that does not really work out on paper. The math doesn't totally math, as they say. We're a weekly national broadcast. We do dozens of live events that are produced on a budget that is mostly held together by, like, duct tape and determination, I guess so. As you have probably already heard, things are really tough out here in public radio, especially for shows like Livewire. Government arts fundings have been slashed. There are a lot of stations that can no longer pay for the show, and ticket sales and sponsorships are down across the entire industry. These are all the ways that we've been able to kind of balance our books over the years, and those are going away. We have somehow survived for two decades basically by being too stubborn to quit. And we are not going to quit anytime soon. But we cannot do this alone. If you are hearing my voice right now, we need you to join us to make this radio show and this experience happen. Look, maybe you discovered a musician on Livewire that you weren't hearing on like the top 40 radio. Maybe you found like your next favorite book or author. Maybe you ugly laughed alone in your car or ugly cried no judgment. Look, if this show has been there for you in any way, shape or form, we are asking you right now to help us build a version of Livewire that can't be defunded, can't be canceled and can't disappear because budgets get tight, which is what we're in danger of having happen now. Right now, if you can join our fully charged campaign@livewireradio.org fullycharged, you will help us keep the lights on and keep the weird, wonderful conversations that Livewire is known for flowing. So thank you so much for stepping up and doing your part to keep Livewire going. We can't do this without you. Welcome back to Livewire from prx. I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. Are you ready to play the game? Everyone's tuning in for station location identification examination.

Ginny Hogan (43:54)

Yes.

Elena Passarello (43:55)

I can't wait.

Luke Burbank (43:56)

This, of course, is where I quiz Elena about a place in the country where we're on the radio. Just got to figure out where I am talking about. This city has been called the flagship city and also the gem city because there is a lake that this city is associated with that looks like a gem when the sun is shining on it.

Elena Passarello (44:16)

I mean, what lake doesn't look like a gem when the sun is shining on it?

Luke Burbank (44:20)

Let me try this. It is home to the indoor water park known as Splash Lagoon, which is the largest indoor water park on the East Coast. And while this city is very associated with a lake of the same name, this is not as big as the lake. This is an indoor water park that's very large but not as voluminous as the lake that we think of associated.

Elena Passarello (44:41)

With this town, Erie, Pennsylvania.

Luke Burbank (44:43)

Erie, Pennsylvania, is exactly the place we are talking about where we are on the radio on wqln. Did you know, by the way, that Erie, also the region anyway, grows grapes and produces the third largest amount of wine in the United States?

Elena Passarello (45:00)

No. I'm glad you didn't give that to me for a hint because I never.

Ginny Hogan (45:03)

I know.

Luke Burbank (45:03)

Move over, Sonoma. We're talking Eerie pa, baby. All right, before we get to our musical guests this week, a little preview of what we are doing on the program. Next week, we are gonna be joined by humorous Tamara Yahia, who's gonna unpack her hilarious memoir, Cry for Me Argentina, My Life as a Failed Child Star, which details her young life bouncing between Argentina and the US While trying to break out as an actor and singer. Spoiler alert. Didn't really work out. Then we have some very funny comedy from Portland comedic legend Susan Rice. Susan was a comedian for her whole career, but at the tender age of 72, she had her big breakout moment when one of her clips went viral. Then we're gonna hear some music from singer songwriter Anna Tivel, who, I am warning you, could have you tearing up. I mean, when she played this song at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon, you could hear a pin drop. That is how locked in the audience was. So make sure you bring your tissues for next week's show. But not just for crying, also for laughing. It's a whole range of emotions here on Livewire. That's coming up next week. Our musical guest this week first came to our attention as the dynamite guest vocalist for Pink Martini, with whom he's performed with around the World and also on Livewire. Not to brag. He's perhaps best known these days for his jaw dropping performance on the 2021 season of America's Got Talent, including receiving the coveted Golden Buzzer. This is Jimmy Harad, recorded in front of a live audience here in Portland, Oregon. Hello. Welcome back.

Jimmy Harad (46:40)

Hello. Hello. Happy to be back. How are you? Too good.

Luke Burbank (46:43)

It's so nice to see you in person. We talked to you on Zoom at one point when you were in New York, and it was funny because you played this beautiful song for us. And then I think you said something like, I hope my neighbors aren't annoyed. And I was like, I have had an apartment in New York and let me tell you, you would be the dream neighbor.

Jimmy Harad (47:00)

Oh, I could hear every, I think rat I later discovered in the wall. So not my neighbors, I guess maybe they weren't that disturbed, but thank you.

Luke Burbank (47:11)

You know, actually, the last time I saw you, and I don't know if you'll remember this, but I do, only barely because I was a little bit tuned up. It was in an elevator at the Lowe's Hotel in la. We both got in and I was like, what are you doing here? And you're like, I'm winning America's Got Talent. And I didn't know you were just like, tearing through that competition, but you did really, really well in that.

Jimmy Harad (47:38)

Thank you. Yeah, you know, it's a competition and it's tv and it's opened so many doors for me, while also, like, it's. It's a lot of work, but it's. It's been really fruitful for me. And it was funny to see you there because of all the people. I'm like, hold on. What is Luke doing here? I'm constantly seeing the other competitors, but. And we're not even on the same episode, so we're like, oh, my God, you're here too, and you're still in the competition. Oh, great.

Luke Burbank (48:04)

Did you think I was there competing as a public radio host?

Jimmy Harad (48:06)

You could have been. You could have started singing for all.

Luke Burbank (48:10)

How sad would Simon have been if I was like, this week on this American live Wire? Like, if I was just there to host public radio as my AGT act, I would have been, yeah, whatever. The. The fastest someone's gotten three X's. But now, what's it been like for you? Because, you know, you. You've had this great career so far, and you sing with Pink Martini so people know who you are. But that's a different level of awareness, right?

Jimmy Harad (48:35)

Yeah.

Luke Burbank (48:36)

Like, people recognizing you in public now and stuff. Like, how is that for you?

Jimmy Harad (48:40)

It's shocking. I think the most shocking place I was recognized was at night. Mind you, I don't know how they saw me because I was in all black and it was very dark. But in Romania, and they're like, you're the guy. Can I get a photo? I'm like, use flash. And I'm still surprised. And, like, you know, I've been really fortunate to have people recognize my hair. Especially if I wear a hat, no one sees me. So it's totally changed my life.

Luke Burbank (49:11)

Yeah. I was wondering, I know that at certain points in your career, you've also taught vocal, jazz, and music to folks, and I'm just wondering, like, what would you do when somebody who really, really wanted to be a singer just didn't have it? Like, they had the desire, but not the voice? Did you have a way of kind of trying to gently explain to someone that.

Jimmy Harad (49:37)

That computers can fix everything?

Luke Burbank (49:39)

Is that the answer now? Well, I could get in on it then.

Jimmy Harad (49:46)

You know, a voice is something everyone has. Not going to take that from anyone who wants to sing.

Elena Passarello (49:56)

You can always get better, right?

Jimmy Harad (49:58)

You can always get better. I mean, I got so many emails during the show and still that are like, I hear you teach. Will you teach my kid over zoom? And I'm like, the zoom days are over for the most part, but we had some lovely zoom days, so.

Luke Burbank (50:12)

Yes, we did.

Jimmy Harad (50:13)

But, yeah, you know, there are still people asking for less. And, you know, that in itself is quite a compliment, actually.

Luke Burbank (50:20)

So what song are we gonna hear first?

Jimmy Harad (50:22)

This is a song that is about traveling and meeting someone on the road that's handsome and not understanding a word they're saying, but they're just trying to say, I like you too.

Luke Burbank (50:34)

All right, this is Jaime Herad and the Livewire house band here on LiveW.

Livewire Announcer (50:58)

I took a trip to a foreign land I went to Russia after Japan that's where I met a Tatar mani city out to bialu blue no, I didn't know what it meant but his breath smelled a peppermint and he sure was a gentleman he said he had to be alo blue yet to be alo blue yet to be alo blue Y blue he said it means I love you oh y blue yeah to.

Anees Mojgani (51:33)

Be.

Livewire Announcer (51:37)

He said it means I love you. He put a flower in my hair for my eyes he couldn't compare to an apple or a Perry said.

Luke Burbank (52:01)

He.

Livewire Announcer (52:01)

Speaks I hear those calico cuz he always speaks some key. Oh, it sounds like singing to me. Sings Yatu blue Y blue Y blue Y blue he said it means I love you oh Y blue Yat to the blue Y blue he said it means I love you. Y told shadow Blue he says it means that I love you too Yellow blue He says it means that I love you too Yacht of yellow blue. He said it means I love you oh Yatubiya Lublu Ya Lou blue Yet he said it means that I love you.

Luke Burbank (53:53)

That was Jimmy Harad performing on Livewire last month here in Portland. His solo album of original works, Falling in Love and Learning to Love Myself, is available now and you can follow him on Instagram like I am Jimmy Harad. That's Jimmy spelled with an ie Harad. All right, that's going to do it for this week's episode of Livewire. A huge thanks to our guests Ginny Hogan, Aneese Mojgani and Jimmy Harad.

Elena Passarello (54:25)

Lara Haddon is our executive producer, Heather D. Michelle is our executive director, and our producer and editor is Melanie Savchenko. Molly Fisher Pettit is our technical director and mixer and our house sound is by D. Neal Blake. Trey Hester is our assistant editor. Our house band is Ethan Fox Tucker, Sam Tucker, Eyal Alves and A. Walker Spring, who also composes our music.

Luke Burbank (54:46)

Additional funding provided by the Regional Arts and Culture Council and the James F. And Marion L. Miller Foundation. Livewire was created by Robin Tenenbaum and Kate Sokoloff. This week we'd like to thank members Carlos Osejo of Vancouver, Washington and Eric Rimkeit of Portland, Oregon. For more information about our show or how you can listen to our podcast, head on over to livewireradio.org I'm Luke Burbank for Elena Passarello and the whole Livewire crew. Thanks for listening and we will see you next week. Hey, if you appreciate the work that Livewire is doing to amplify riveting and unexpected voices to a national audience, and I gotta tell you, it's a big audience these days, please, please, please consider offering some monthly support by becoming a member of our league of extraordinary listeners. Here's how it works. Membership starts at just five bucks a month and there are great perks at every level, including a special shout out on the broadcast. Impress your friends by being shouted out on Livewire. It means the world to us and really does make it possible for us to do the show. So please, if you can, help, support us by visiting Livewire Radio memberships.

Elena Passarello (56:26)

From prx.