Jamie Loftus, Daisy Hernández, and Olive Klug

Summary

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Live Wire with Luke Burbank: Independence Day Special

Episode Date: July 3, 2026
Guests: Jamie Loftus, Daisy Hernández, Olive Klug

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Episode Overview

This special Independence Day episode of Live Wire, hosted by Luke Burbank, celebrates the complexities of America with humor, depth, and song. Luke and announcer Elena Passarello welcome three guests who explore uniquely American symbols and struggles—Jamie Loftus (hot dogs as cultural icon), Daisy Hernández (citizenship mythologies), and Olive Klug (a musical meditation on America now). The show is designed as an “eclectic, late-night for radio”—balancing humor, critical reflection, and heartfelt art in the spirit of the Fourth of July.

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Best News We Heard All Week: America Edition

(Timestamps: 04:27–10:49)

Purpose: To kick off with uplifting and distinctly American stories amidst complicated news.

• Elena’s Story (Lawrence, KS & Algeria, World Cup):

  • The city of Lawrence, Kansas, is hosting the Algerian soccer team for the World Cup and has turned the event into a beautiful, welcoming cultural exchange.
  • Soccer 101 classes and history lessons about Algeria were organized.
  • 400 community members welcomed the team; block parties and a huge Algerian flag land-art display energized the town.
  • "It's just such great counter messaging to a lot of sort of information about, you know, American myopia or whatever to see this level of engagement with this team." – Elena Passarello (06:51)

• Luke’s Story (South Carolina & Pinball Legalization):

  • For nearly 70 years, South Carolina banned minors from playing pinball due to its gambling origins, but a new law overturned this, enabling a new pinball arcade to cultivate community—especially among kids.
  • The overturning story features a state senator who called himself "a habitual offender" of the law for playing pinball with his son.
  • "As a kid who was homeschooled at times...I think that is truly a gift to the Aiken, South Carolina community." – Luke Burbank (09:36)

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Jamie Loftus: The Surreal, Symbolic World of the American Hot Dog

(Timestamps: 10:49–30:58)

Guest: Jamie Loftus, Emmy-nominated writer/comedian
Book: Raw Dog: The Naked Truth About Hot Dogs

Key Insights & Discussion Points

• On Hot Dogs’ Deep Personal Roots:

  • Jamie reflects on her dad’s “gnarly boiled hot dogs” and how the food evokes profound, personal memories, even when they’re “gross.”
  • "It's a very, very gross food that people will absolutely die for because it reminds them of something important to them." – Jamie Loftus (12:08)

• Hot Dog Summer 2021:

  • To research her book, Jamie ate 200 hot dogs on a road trip (without a driver’s license) post-pandemic lockdown—with her ex, both their pets, and lots of Covid-19 anxiety.
  • "I was contractually obligated to eat 200 hot dogs and I was like, we have to do it. We have to do it safely and we have to do it together and I cannot drive the car." – Jamie Loftus (13:30)

• Ethics and Hot Dogs:

  • Jamie maintains a critical stance—acknowledging hot dogs are bad for humans and animals, discusses trying to ethically source meat, and reveals horrifying details about industry exploitation.
  • "Vegans are correct, vegetarians are correct. Meat consumption is always going to be some sort of mental and ethical compromise." – Jamie Loftus (14:56)

• Hot Dog ‘Mount Rushmore’:

  • Jamie’s list, debated with Luke and Elena, of the 5 most ubiquitous hot dogs in America (not necessarily the best):
    1. Costco dog: Its legend is fueled by an urban myth about pricing and CEO threats (“the hero of this story is a billionaire CEO of Costco.” – 20:32)
    2. Home Depot dog: Locally-owned carts beloved by regulars and even politicians, subject to protests if shut down.
    3. Hot Dog on a Stick: Famous for “sexy little outfits” and “Muscle Beach” vibes.
    4. Auntie Anne’s: Founded by an Amish survivor who became a pretzel mogul ("It's a wild story...but it ends with a hot dog." – 23:23).
    5. Ben’s Chili Bowl (DC): An iconic, Black-owned business rich with Civil Rights-era connections—“allegedly MLK began writing the I Have A Dream speech there” (24:08)—and local celebrity status.

• Nathan’s Hot Dog Eating Contest & Gender Inequality:

  • Jamie critiques the contest’s spectacle, problems with Major League Eating, and especially the sidelining of women competitors (unequal prizes, pink “Pepto Bismol belt”, and tea parties instead of competitive parity).
  • "Not to mention that the women's contest is still broadcast on ESPN3, which makes me want to shove my hand in a garbage disposal." – Jamie Loftus (29:09)
  • She highlights issues of nationality, representation, and race, describing how legendary Japanese eater Takeru Kobayashi was squeezed out once Joey Chestnut emerged.
  • Ultimately, the hot dog is both silly and loaded: “It also brings with it all of the weirdness of this country.” – Luke Burbank (29:52)

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Daisy Hernández: Citizenship & the American Myth

(Timestamps: 32:43–47:23)

Guest: Daisy Hernández, award-winning writer
Book: Notes on an American Myth

Key Insights & Discussion Points

• Origins of the Book:

  • Daisy’s exploration began while working on a book about a parasitic disease, noticing limitations faced by non-citizens in accessing benefits like Medicaid. Her family—a “United Nations of Latinos, located in New Jersey”—inspired her to trace the tangled, exclusionary history of U.S. citizenship.
  • "Do I really know what [citizenship] means, where it comes from, what it looked like in 1790?" – Daisy Hernández (35:08)

• Brief History of U.S. Citizenship:

  • 1790: Naturalization limited to free white immigrants.
  • Later, countless discriminatory laws—Native people excluded until 1924; women lost citizenship when marrying foreigners; mass deportations of Mexican-Americans, many U.S. citizens, in the 1930s.
  • "It has been pretty bleak." – Daisy Hernández (36:26)

• Social Justice as Citizenship Expansion:

  • All major 20th-century social justice movements (civil rights, women’s rights, gay liberation) were in effect expanding definitions and realities of citizenship beyond paperwork, especially for marginalized groups.
  • “We are the authors of this story called Citizenship.” – Daisy Hernández (37:28)

• “We are here because you were there”:

  • Daisy explains how U.S. intervention in Latin America led directly to displaced families seeking refuge here: “People did what they needed to do, they fled. So, yeah, we are here because you were there.” (39:41)
  • She credits legal scholar Dr. Achume: U.S. foreign and corporate policy has made people in countries like El Salvador already members of our “political community.”

• Social Citizenship:

  • Introduces T.H. Marshall’s triad: civil, political, and “social citizenship” (access to housing, health, education). Citizenship is not just legal status—it’s realized (or not) in daily life.
  • “What we’re talking about is your social citizenship...what exactly can I do with that citizenship?” – Daisy Hernández (41:12)

• Citizenship and Federalism:

  • Practical rights vary sharply by state—especially for trans people and women seeking reproductive health services.
  • “We are more a citizen of the state in which we live than we are of the United States.” – Daisy Hernández (42:02)

• Nuanced Political Allegiance:

  • Daisy describes her Cuban cousin—gay, white, not a citizen, but a Trump supporter—reflecting on how personal histories and insecurities can cut across expected lines (43:10–44:45).

• Are We at a Low Point?

  • Daisy confirms, based on historical research, that today is an especially bleak period for citizenship rights and belonging—even compared to other exclusionary eras (45:12).
  • But: “We can always go in a positive direction...we're the authors of the story of citizenship, so we can definitely move it in a positive direction.” – Daisy Hernández (47:08)

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Olive Klug: “A Song About America” (Live Performance)

(Timestamps: 50:02–55:26)

Guest: Olive Klug, singer-songwriter
Song: "Song About America" (from album Lost Dawn)

Song Context & Notable Moments

• Olive describes touring the U.S. during state-level legislative attacks on drag shows and gender-affirming care, while being simultaneously courted by corporate Pride campaigns: “...experiencing cognitive dissonance—there’s this world where we’re really accepted when it’s corporations asking us to promote their stuff and then, you know, not actually seen as human by politicians.” – Olive Klug (50:06)
• The song threads personal insecurity and hope (“I don’t typically write overtly political music”), referencing Kansas, Tennessee, corporate Pride, violence against queer and trans people, and yearning for change.
• The folk-style lyrics are both raw and uplifting: "I think we're coming back. We're coming back around." (54:54)
• The audience responds with warmth to its topical, honest, and hope-tinged delivery.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “It's just such great counter messaging...to see this level of engagement with this team.” – Elena Passarello on Lawrence, KS & World Cup (06:51)
• “Surely someone needs to answer for their crimes.” – Jamie Loftus, on bad hot dogs and nostalgia (11:46)
• “It's a very, very gross food that people will absolutely die for because it reminds them of something important to them.” – Jamie Loftus (12:08)
• “Vegans are correct, vegetarians are correct. Meat consumption is always going to be some sort of mental and ethical compromise.” – Jamie Loftus (14:56)
• “We are the authors of this story called Citizenship.” – Daisy Hernández (37:28)
• “We are here because you were there.” – Daisy Hernández (39:41)
• “We can always go in a positive direction...it's happened before.” – Daisy Hernández (47:08)
• “...this isn’t normally what I do.” – Olive Klug (51:06)
• “I think we're coming back, we're coming back around.” – Olive Klug (54:54)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening, Best News: 04:27–10:49
• Jamie Loftus interview: 10:49–30:58
• Daisy Hernández interview: 32:43–47:23
• Olive Klug musical performance: 50:02–55:26

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Episode Tone and Takeaways

• Voice: An artful, witty, sometimes irreverent but always sincere radio “variety show” for thoughtful listeners.
• Themes: The complicated joys of American traditions; the darkness and hope of the nation’s unfinished work; how personal stories and cultural symbols tie into broader narratives of justice, belonging, and identity.
• For Listeners: You’ll laugh, reflect, get hungry for a hot dog, and feel both challenged and encouraged about where we are—and where we could go as Americans.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

Hey there. Welcome to Livewire. I'm your host, Luke Burbank. This week on the show, we are celebrating Independence Day with a little fourth of July special. Talking about this beautiful messed up country from all the perspectives, including the good, the bad and the tasty. Which brings us to our pal Jamie Loftus, who's written an entire book about the official Fourth of July cuisine. It's called Raw Dog the Naked Truth About Hot Dogs. Then writer Daisy Hernandez will talk about her book Notes on an American Myth, which is a deeply personal and researched, fascinating book. Then the singer songwriter Olive Klug will take us on home with a song that is literally called a Song about America. So light up the grill, crack a cold one of whatever it is that you enjoy and settle on in for this hour of Livewire. It's gonna be a great one. And it gets started just after this.

[B]

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[C]

supporting our show from prx, it's Livewire.

[D]

This week. Writer and podcaster Jamie Loftus.

[E]

I think it's like a nasty hot dog that will make you think, like, surely someone needs to answer for their crimes.

[D]

Author Daisy Hernandez.

[C]

I really wanted to better understand the history of citizenship. I feel like this is a theme that has been at the center of my life and do I really know what it means, where it comes from, what it looked like in 1790?

[D]

With music from Olive Klug and our fabulous house band, I'm your announcer, Elaina Passarello. And now the host of Livewire, Luke Burbank.

[A]

Thank you so much, Elena Passarello. Thank you to all of you for tuning in to Livewire from all over this country where we are doing something a little different on the show this week. We are celebrating Independence Day complications and all with a show involving some recent and past guests who are gonna take us on a wild tour of this country. From hot dogs to citizenship, the real pillars of this country. First, though, we gotta kick things off the way that we always do with a little segment we call the best news we heard all week, America Edition.

[F]

Best news.

[A]

Here is the premise of this segment. Of course, some of the news out there is bad, including some of the news here in America, but we are looking for the good news and we've actually found some on this special Independence Day show and wanna tell you about it. Elena, what is the best news you heard all week?

[D]

I love my American news. I love it. Luke, I'm so excited to tell the story. I don't know if you know this, but the nation is currently suffering from a strong case of World cup fever.

[A]

I've got it bad. I don't know if you can hear it in my voice right now. I have been fully and completely consumed by World cup fever.

[D]

You're febrile for the World Cup? Yes, I guess, because all these teams from all over the world are coming here. Different cities are hosting and sponsoring them. And the city of Lawrence, Lawrence, Kansas, a town that I love, where parts of my family are from.

[A]

Rock Chalk, Jayhawk.

[D]

Rock Chalk, Jayhawk. That's going to come soon. They are hosting the Algeria team. Lawrence, Kansas, is about 35 miles from Kansas City, Missouri, which is where a lot of World cup action is taking place. And in February, when the city of Lawrence, Kansas Learned that they were going to be hosting the Algerian team. They went all out, out to make this base camp as exciting as possible and as welcoming as possible for these men and the team. They had in Lawrence Soccer 101 classes, which I should have taken so that everyone was just a little bit more literate about the sport that was being played. They also had classes in the history of the team and in Algerian culture. And then when the group showed up in June in buses, like 400 people welcomed them. The squad is having little open practices with some of the kids, the KU marching band, Rock Chalk, Jayhawk. They learned the national anthem and in my mind at least they're just playing it at will while the, while the team practices. And also all Algerian Americans all over the region from Missouri and Kansas, you know, because the two states are bordering each other right there. They are coming in to Lawrence by the hordes to have block parties and watch parties. There was a huge land art tribute in the middle of Rock Chalk park, which turned the entire field into a gigantic Algerian flag. And they even say now, Brock Chalk Jayhawk, Rock Chalk Algeria.

[A]

That's so awesome.

[D]

Somebody said maybe the mayor or something. In this article I read that they knew how hard it was for the Algerian team to get here and so they wanted them to feel as welcome as possible. And it's just such great counter messaging to a lot of sort of information about, you know, American myopia or whatever to see this level of engagement with this team. I hope they feel great and I feel great that Americans did this for them.

[A]

It has been an incredibly much needed cross cultural exchange. I think the best news that I heard all week right here in the US of A. Takes us to South Carolina.

[D]

Yeah, my birth state.

[A]

Fourth of July, it's Independence Day. It's all about being able to live your truth and to be independent. Did you know that for the last almost 70 years in South Carolina it has been illegal for people under the age of 18 to play pinball?

[D]

No, not at all. I think I may have broken the law in South Carolina when I was a wee one.

[A]

The history of pinball, it turns out, is kind of fascinating. It was originally kind of a gambling thing where you would just pull on this little some device that would pop the ball up and it would go in whatever hole it happened to go in and people would stand around and bet on this. It's kind of like a proto slot machine or something. That was during the Great Depression. Then in the 1940s, pinball manufacturers started adding the flippers and so when they added the flippers, it stopped being a gambling game. It'd be kind of a. Kind of a skill game. But by that time, some places, including South Carolina, had already made it illegal for people under the age of 18 because of its gambling origin. And even though no one's ever been, like, arrested for it, there was a certain chilling effect. They talked to a woman named Aaron Edwards, and she and her husband were looking to open up a pinball arcade there in Aiken, South Carolina. They were looking to open up a radioactive pinball arcade. Like that was the name of it. It wasn't irradiated. And they were meeting with the city officials, and one of the city officials said, well, what are you gonna do to make sure no young people come there? And they were like, excuse you. Like, that's the whole demo for the business. And then this year, Elena, in the South Carolina Senate, a hero stood up. Senator Ed Sutton called himself a habitual offender of this law since he often takes his six year old son to play pinball at a local brewery. And then another lawmaker stood up and said, I'm also violating this rule very frequently with my family. And it worked. This thing passed. The rule change passed 45 to 1. We're not gonna get into why the one guy voted against it. Long, complicated story involving he's been there a long time, and one time he voted for something else, and it didn't turn out to be what he thought it was gonna be, and they can just never convince him to vote for anything anymore. But it went 45 to 1. And now if you're in South Carolina and you are under the age of 18, you will not be in any trouble with the law if you want to go enjoy pinball. They talked to the folks who did eventually open up that pinball arcade, Radioactive, and they said the place is just bursting with kids. And it's so fun because it's a chance for kids to be together versus maybe being on their screens or maybe a little more isolated, as happened a lot during the pandemic. Also something that I found really heartwarming that they have special hours sometimes to allow kids who are homeschooled to come and hang out at the pinball arcade and socialize. And as a kid who was homeschooled at times, Elena, and was very poorly socialized because I didn't have any other kids my age to hang out with, I think that is truly a gift to the Aiken, South Carolina community. So kids being able to enjoy their independence to play pinball whenever and wherever they want in the fine American tradition. That's the best news I heard all week. All right, let's get our first guest on out here. Alaina, is there anything more American than the hot dog?

[D]

If there is, I don't want to know about it.

[A]

No, I think it was actually started out in Germany, if we're being honest. Look, we have a friend of the show who's thought a lot about the subject of hot dogs. It's Jamie Loftus. She's an Emmy nominated writer, comedian, and podcaster whose work the New York Times describes as unexpectedly gripping explorations of niche subjects, which is exactly what she does in her book Raw the Naked Truth About Hot Dogs. This is Jamie Loftus, recorded at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon, back in June of 2020. Hi, Jamie. Welcome back to the show.

[E]

I'm so happy to be back.

[A]

It turns out that you're not only an amazing podcaster, you're an amazing writer. Was there a specific hot dog that you were having or like a moment where you thought, yes, this should. Nay, this must be a book about hot dogs?

[E]

I think it's like a nasty hot dog that will make you think, like, surely someone needs to answer for their crimes. Because my dad, he's like, sick of me repeating this in public, but he would do these really gnarly boiled hot dogs that was very like, dad's around right now and he's about to make an attempt. So I always associated this nasty, mushy meat tube with like, we did it. We're a family. I don't know. I really love talking and thinking about hot dogs because it is, like, even when it's disgusting, it always feels very personal because most people start eating them when they're very young. And it can be a very, very gross food that people will absolutely die for because it reminds them of something important to them.

[A]

Can you explain what the parameters of hot dog summer 2021 were? You went on this road trip to just kind of experience different hot dogs in different parts of the country. And also, you don't have a driver's license. Yeah, no, that seems like.

[D]

Or a pet sitter.

[F]

Right?

[A]

It seems like step one of an epic road trip would be driver's license.

[E]

No, you just need a boyfriend and then you don't need a driver's license. But yeah, no, my. My ex and myself and our. Both of our animals. I got hired to write this book shortly after we had been vaccinated. And about like a week into the trip, the delta variant really Started kicking up and it was like we were already kind of stuck, you know. And so it was, it was a very, I think, like, I didn't let myself process it at the time because it's such a silly reason to be outside of your home is to eat 200 hot dogs. But I was contractually obligated to eat 200 hot dogs and I was like, we have to do it. We have to do it safely and we have to do it together and I cannot drive the car.

[A]

I think a lot of these public radio types, and honestly, myself included, Jamie, are kind of thinking, like, aren't hot dogs terrible? Like, on every level for us, for the animals? How do you, a socially conscious entertainer and writer, Jamie Loftus square all of that?

[E]

Well, they're definitely bad for you.

[A]

I mean, they're worse for the pig, right?

[D]

Oh, yeah.

[E]

Arguably harder to be. Yeah. I mean, I think that the animals are always going to have sort of the worst deal in hot dogs. Although there are an increasing number of vegan and vegetarian options that don't suck.

[A]

I swear I've wandered the earth looking for like a plant based hot dog that has the snap. You talk about the snap a lot in this book.

[E]

I would love to meet the person who can replicate animal skin breaking in your mouth with a plant. That's all I want because that's what it is.

[A]

I'm a simple man and I want someone to make a plant based thing that reminds me of snapping through the innards of an animal.

[E]

I truly think that a vegan that could accomplish that is a real sicko. It's a weird mission. But yeah, I mean, I try to say at the beginning of the book, like, vegans are correct, vegetarians are correct. Meat consumption is always going to be some sort of mental and ethical compromise. And so when I was researching how hot dogs are made, it was about 2020 and 2021. The meatpacking industry was going through such a horrible time during lockdown, especially because of the Trump executive order to keep meatpacking plants open, which essentially, that executive order, it was revealed in late 2021, possibly early 2022, that was like drafted by the CEOs of Tyson and Smithfield.

[A]

Hold on, let me sit down. Let me sit more down. You're telling me a major agribusiness had a direct line to the Trump White House?

[E]

Yes, they did. But it's so, I mean, it's like, that's not shocking. And then you read about the individual cases of how individual workers and families were affected by and it's stuff that is truly sickening to have to face on a very human level. And that's not to speak of how they treat the animals. And so I think I had to reach a point where I was really hoping by the end, I'm like, I'm going to be such a good person. By the time I finish writing this book, I am never going to eat meat again. I'm going to go clear. Which I didn't. And I still don't really know why I think that, like, I've never not eaten meat. And it was really, I found it pretty impossible to stop. And so what I have been trying to do is to just not eat from Tyson in Smithfield and try to eat more ethically when I can.

[A]

All right.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, I guess we'll say goodbye to sponsors Tyson and Smithfield. We had a great run.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, we gotta take a quick break here on Livewire. We're gonna be back with Jamie Loftus. Her new book is Raw Dog. We'll be back in just a moment. Stay with us. Hey, Portland, get ready for the party of the summer because it's almost here. Of course, I'm talking about the Sports Bra proudly presenting its fifth annual Pride Block Party. You can join us. Sunday, July 19 from 1 to 10pm it is a day packed with queer joy and community. Live DJs keeping the block bumping, amazing performances, delicious food carts and refreshing drinks. Plus, don't miss lift out loud. The wildly popular Sapphic Deadlift competition reflects Meat Fierce. This is an incredible celebration made possible by our sponsors, the Women's foundation of Oregon Square, Unrivaled Xfinity, Comcast and more. The best part, the Sports Bra, one of the true gems of Portland, Oregon, if I do say so, will donate a percentage of proceeds from Pride ticket sales to new Avenues for Youth's SMYRC program at Sexual and Gender Minority Youth Resource Center. SMYRC provides a free, safe, sober, supervised, harassment free space for queer and trans youth ages 13 to 24. Tickets are on sale right now and they're a little more expensive on the day of the event, so snag them early by going to thesportsbraofficial.com that's thesportsbraofficial.com. come on out, show up and party with Pride at the Sports Bra Pride Block Party. There's only one Ozempic. Hello, I'm Ozempic. Because this ad is 30 seconds. I can't get into everything I'm FDA approved to do. So I'm just going to play my jingle again. But first, ask your doctor about which FDA approved uses of me. The Ozempic pen may be right for you. Call 1-833-OZEMPIC or visit ozempic.com to view the medication guide and learn more about Ozempic. Semaglutide injection, 2 milligrams. Only Novo Nordisk makes FDA approved Ozempic. Now here's that jingle again. There's only one Ozempic. Hey. Welcome back to Livewire from prx. I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarella. We are at the beautiful Alberta Rose Theater right here in Portland, Oregon, and we're talking to Jamie Loftus about her new book, Raw the Naked Truth About Hot Dogs. Let's get into the five hot dogs you can purchase easily in heaven. Okay. This is basically the Mount Rushmore of hot dogs that you lay out in the book. And we'll just kind of go through them rapid fire. Number one on the list appears to be the Costco hot dog. What is, what's so special about the hot dog?

[E]

I would like to stress, easily purchased, they're not the best hot dogs. They're just the ones that you can choose to have. So Costco, Costco. Everyone is always losing their minds every six months about how the CEO of Costco threatened to kill someone.

[A]

This email, right, that comes up all the time, it was with Jim Sinegal, I think, saying he's gonna, like, fire the guy if the price of the hot dog and soda go up by 5 cents or something.

[E]

He says he's going to effing murder him. Which is a great story. But I always, like, people always send that to me. And I was like, you gotta consider the hero of this story is a billionaire CEO of Costco.

[A]

I also think that story was published in, like, Costco Connections, which is the newsletter for Costco, which is the whole

[E]

thing with, like, I mean, hot dogs and like, all sorts of marketing where you're like, they're making it up and you're circulating it like you just found out Keanu Reeves was a nice guy for the first time. Like, I just, I have higher expectations of Internet users, which is on me.

[A]

What about the Home Depot hot dog?

[E]

Okay, Depot dog. That's something special. So I don't actually know if. Does the Pacific Northwest have depot dogs?

[A]

When I was growing up, they did. And the way that, that little kind of foyer area, you know what I mean? Like, you're in the Home Depot, but you're not all the way in would smell like the hot dog cart, it's so good.

[E]

So they're independently owned hot dog carts outside of Home Depot.

[F]

Why?

[E]

Shut up. It's great. There is, like, certain areas where, like, we do taco stands, we do like, there's different kinds, there's hero stands, stuff like that. But like Depot dogs, no matter where you go, everyone is always so thrilled. And like, there have been state representatives that have spoken out when Depot dog stands have closed. Cause Home Depot, after a while was like, what is going on? Like, we're not getting a cut of this. And then public officials were like, you cannot shut down that hot dog stand. My aunt loves those hot dogs.

[A]

What about hot dog on a stick? They also make the list.

[E]

They do. Because it's an easily gettable hot dog. Hot dog on a stick, you know, is fine. It's.

[A]

Is that where they wear the hats?

[E]

That's where they wear the sexy little outfits? Yeah, it's a weird one. It's just like a sexy little hot dog that comes out of sexy little Muscle beach. And you eat it and you're like, nah, fine.

[A]

Then you have Auntie Ann's.

[E]

Yes, Auntie Anne's. Fascinating. If no one knows the story of Auntie Ann, it is so wild. She grew up in an Amish community in Pennsylvania. She and a number of women in her community were survivors of sexual abuse from a priest in their community. No one saw this twist coming. I swear this ends with a hot dog. I have to cut the tension in the room because it is very scary. So there is an abusive person in their community. They speak to each other about it. They force this priest out of the community. And Auntie Ann and her husband decide they want to start a community center for women who have survived sexual abuse. But they don't have any money. So Auntie Ann decides she's going to start making pretzels. And now she's a pretzel gajillionaire. And then she did speak at the Republican National Convention. So, you know, it's. Yeah, I know what your politics are,

[C]

but it's hot dogs.

[E]

Like, you gotta.

[D]

I mean, it's an American story.

[A]

You buy the ticket, you take the ride.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

We're talking to Jamie Loftus about her book, Raw Dog. Let's talk about a place that you visited that I used to also go to often about two in the morning when I lived in Washington, dc. And that would be Ben's Chili Bowl.

[F]

Yes.

[A]

Home of the half smoke.

[F]

Yes.

[A]

And what did you think of the hot dog? And also, why was that? Place of particular interest to you?

[E]

Oh, I mean, that business is fascinating for a number of reasons. It's one of the few black owned hot dog businesses that I covered throughout my travels. There's not many, especially ones that have as huge an impact. There's all of this lore, like DC based lore connected to Ben's Chili bowl, where allegedly MLK began writing the I have a dream speech. There's a lot you can't say that

[A]

about an Auntie Anne's.

[D]

You know,

[E]

there's like all like. Like Stokely Carmichael was said to have gone there a lot. Like there's all of these famous civil rights figures that would hang out at Ben's Chili bowl eating a delicious hot dog that will make you poop so much and, like, having the time of their lives. And they're like, they're, I think, just think it's like really wonderful when hot dog business owners become local celebrities, because almost every sitting president, I think since that business has been open, it's like a part of like, okay, I got voted into office. I have to go to Ben's Chili bowl to take a picture with this, like, chili soaked hot dog. And I think that that's great. I also notice across the country, Jimmy Fallon has been to every hot dog place in the entire world because there's

[A]

a picture of him.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

I was just like, go to work. I don't know, it's like, really bizarre.

[A]

I thought you were gonna say, like, Guy Fieri or something. I'll be in a random place sometime and just look up and he'll just be there with like his Oakleys on backwards, just like approving of this gas station bathroom I'm in or something. Like, man, he's been everywhere.

[E]

There is a place I went to in North Carolina that I don't know what the theming of the restaurant was before Guy Fieri went there, because it seemed like the theme was, Guy Fieri's been here. He was everywhere.

[A]

You also went to the Nathan's Famous Hot Dog. Fans of people dunking their hot dogs in water before they eat them. Which is for some reason the part that really, really upsets me about that whole process is that, you know, that's the most effective way to eat, you know, 50 hot dogs, right, Is to dunk them in water first.

[E]

Yes.

[A]

What did you make of that whole spectacle?

[E]

Oh, I hated it at first. I intentionally, like, went into that pretty, like, you know, raw. I didn't know very much. I was like, I'm just gonna let this experience wash over me and see how I feel at the end. Because it's a 10 minute long competition and I just felt my feelings change in real time where it starts and it's like, Joey Chestnut wins every year. And you know, he likes dunk, split, chomp, chomp, swallow. He ate 76 in 10 minutes. No, you should be cheering. But it was so, like, I started off so not on his side. I was like, this should be illegal. And then at some point in the middle, I was like, no, this is a sport. And then the guy on ESPN I will never forget, like you can check the 2021 broadcast, said that Joey Chestnut eats hot dogs the way Ernest Hemingway wrote novels.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

With no adjectives.

[A]

That guy, the guy who announces them, he's this PR guy from New York and he inherited this little kind of not particularly notable hot dog eating competition. And then I think he wanted to be a writer, right?

[E]

He did, yeah.

[A]

So he now gets out all of his sort of writerly impressions instincts in how he describes the competitive eaters.

[E]

It's so intense. Yeah. It's this guy, George Shea, who I think has made his living kind of being like, I'm the Vince McMahon of hot dogs. And you're like, well, I hate that. Don't want that. But it's like, has the showmanship of Vince McMahon and also a lot of the things that people hate about Vince McMahon because he has this whole history, as does this contest of really making and breaking, like, lives have been ruined. I'm a huge fan of Takeru Kobayashi, the greatest hot dog eater to ever do it. And he was like, really, really screwed over by George Shea and by Major League Eating for reasons that were.

[A]

That's the name of the league.

[E]

That's so funny. Yeah. It is called Major League Eating, and we can laugh about that. But Kobayashi was this amazing eater who came over from Japan, popularized the hot dog eating contest. Is a huge reason that it was on ESPN and all this other stuff. And then once there was a white American champion in the form of Joey Chestnut to present a challenge. George Shea and Major League Eating did everything they could to make Kobayashi's deals worse and worse and worse until he was essentially forced out of the sport. I feel so strongly about it. And not to mention that the women's contest is still broadcast on ESPN3, which makes me want to shove my hand in a garbage disposal. Like, why is that?

[D]

And Shay is the one who made it split by gender. It used to be that women would be in the hot dog eating contest along with the men, right?

[E]

Yeah, everyone eats food. It's so weird that it's split like that. But, yeah, that was an intentional decision by George Shea in 2011 to split the contest. And originally, the women competitors were told at a tea party he threw for them because he's a bit evil. So he threw them this tea party, said, you're gonna be on ESPN3 now. And the men's prize is still $10,000. Yours is $2,500 now. And here's this new pink belt we got.

[B]

Right.

[D]

The belt is pink.

[E]

It's technically the Pepto Bismol belt, but it was still a huge, like.

[A]

I mean, what I think is so interesting about this book and even about this conversation we're having, Jamie, is that the hot dog seems like this kind of just silly thing that, you know, we consume mindlessly, and yet we've already touched into, like, two or three really big cultural things around gender and class and all of the stuff that's tied up in it because it's so sort of inherently American at this point. It also brings with it all of the weirdness of this country. Right.

[E]

Yeah. It's like a symbol. And we're told that it's a very American symbol. But, like, why? Who did that? And what does an American. Like an American symbol? Is that a good thing?

[C]

Right.

[E]

Do we have to feel good about that? And I tried to explore it from every way that I could because I love hot dogs still. They're the best I can and have talked about them for hours on end, and I will continue to. But there's also so many things about, you know, hot dogs that are connected to. Yeah, like, systems of exploitation and oppression in America. And also, people have sex on the wienermobile. So there's a lot going on.

[A]

Jamie Loftus, everyone. The book is Raw Dog. That was Jamie Loftus recorded at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon. Make sure you check out her book. It's so incredible. Raw the Naked Truth About Hot Dogs. Hey, special thanks this week to Cass and Bob Friedland of Vancouver, Washington. Cass and Bob are part of the Livewire member community. We call it the League of Extraordinary Listeners, and they are generously supporting our show with a donation each month. And, boy, howdy, are we grateful for that because it is how we're able to keep this whole thing going. So thank you, Cas and Bob, for supporting Livewire. You're listening to Livewire from prx. We are celebrating America this week, at least the America that we all hope this country can be and a huge part of America's story is the people who have come here from other places. Which raises the topic of citizenship. It's a word that we've all heard a lot, but maybe we haven't thought about how actually complex the issue is. Well, thankfully, Daisy Hernandez has. She's an award winning writer and herself the child of immigrants who decided to dive into the topic for her latest book. It's called Notes on an American Myth. It's part memoir, part research project, and entirely riveting. Booklist calls it an essential book for these contentious times. Here is Daisy Hernandez, recorded live at the Alberta Rose Theatre in Portland, Oregon. Hi, Daisy. Welcome back to livewire.

[C]

Hi. Thank you for having me. Again.

[A]

I'm curious, this book, citizenship, what was the kind of political climate when you started writing it? Like, we, we kind of know what it is now. We live here. But, like, what was going on at the time when you first thought I should write a book on the topic?

[C]

I was actually working on my last book, which was during the first Trump administration. And in the process of interviewing people about this parasitic disease. That's the topic of that book. I started talking with Latin American immigrants about their access to health insurance in this country. Country. And one woman in particular was telling me that she's a green card holder, but that she didn't yet have five years in the United States. And that reminded me that in 1996, Congress made it so that you cannot access Medicaid if you're a green card holder until you've been here for five years, you can't access those federal aid, Medicaid dollars. So it really got me thinking. At what point did we decide that having citizenship, having a particular piece of paper could determine whether or not you saw a doctor and at what point in time? And I didn't go into the last book, so it became this new book.

[A]

I see. What was your family's story of citizenship? Because that's woven into this book?

[C]

Oh, absolutely. My father was a political refugee from Cuba. My mother's from Colombia. I have an uncle from Peru, another uncle from Puerto Rico, family friends from Mexico and Argentina and Guatemala. So I like to tell people I grew up in the United nations of Latinos, located in New Jersey, not that far from the unique.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[C]

But yeah, I grew up in an immigrant family where citizenship was completely at the center of our lives.

[A]

Something that your mom would tell you stories of at night?

[C]

Every night? Yes. Other people put their children to sleep with tales of wizards or whatever fairies. And my mother would tell me her immigration story Every night. She was the hero of the story. The story included monsters, including her sister, who really pushed her to come to the US and then, of course, all the challenges that were involved with staying in this country.

[A]

One of the things that you do so well in your books is kind of you weave in your lived experience with also kind of history and things like that and things with your family. What is the. Is it like something is going on in your family and then you just need to research it and then you have a book or, like, how do you kind of blend these two things together?

[C]

No, in this case, I really wanted to better understand the history of citizenship. I feel like this is a theme that has been at the center of my life and doing. Do I really know what it means, where it comes from, what it looked like in 1790? So as I was researching, I was realizing, oh, there's these incredible connections with family members. So when I'm, like, researching about Aristotle, you know, origins of democracy and citizenship and so forth, I find out, wait, he had a green card in ancient Athens. It wasn't called a green card, but he was not a citizen of ancient Athens. And, of course, that got me thinking about my favorite uncle and his experience of living in the US and having a card that identified him as a resident alien. So a lot of times I'm doing the research, and then I see the connections to my own experience.

[A]

I think a lot of us who like to say, you know, America is a nation of immigrants, that's said in this kind of sort of aspirational way and a way of trying to harken back to what we think of as the good old days of Ellis island or of, like, when this nation was more open to people coming from other places and becoming citizens. But as you write in the book, it's kind of always sucked. Like, can you give us kind of the, like, the sort of brief, ish history of what this idea of citizenship has looked like throughout this country's history? Because there's so much more bad stuff in there than I was really thinking about until I read the book.

[C]

Yes, Very, very briefly. As early as 1790, Congress decided that you could not naturalize unless you were a free white immigrant. So then that led to all these courts, ostensibly run by white judges who had to determine if you from India, are you a white person who can naturalize in this country? 100 years later, we had a civil war, which of course, was to abolish slavery, but really to also determine the citizenship of black Americans in this country. Native People, as an entire group, did not get full access to citizenship until 1924, early 20th century. If you were a woman who married a foreigner, there was a time period in which you would lose your citizenship the moment that you married a foreigner. So, yeah, it has been pretty bleak, including in the 1930s when the United States deported about a million Mexican Americans, half of whom were U.S. citizens. That was sort of a silent deportation program. So it has been pretty bleak. Can I give you the good news now or leave, please? Okay.

[E]

Good God, please.

[C]

The good news is that when we think about the social justice movements of the mid 20th century, when we think about the civil rights movement, gay liberation, women's rights, all of those social justice movements were expanding our understanding of citizenship, were increasing the rights that people have. So we don't always talk about those social justice movements as being about citizenship. These were folks who were not necessarily immigrants. They were birthright citizens, but they had such limited rights, whether it was because of gender or sexual orientation. And so I want us to remember that we are the authors of this story called Citizenship.

[A]

Yes, we're talking to Daisy Hernandez here on Livewire. The book is Citizenship Notes on an American Myth. Something else that you talk about in the book is what you call the other Vietnam, which was all of these wars that the US Was essentially running or at least strongly influencing in Latin America, and the way that that was displacing and in ways colonizing whole groups of people who then often ended up here. You have a line in the book. We're all here because you're there. Can you kind of unpack that a little bit?

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. So when I was growing up in the 1980s, I was the nerdy kid who was watching the news every night and taking notes, essentially.

[A]

Okay, the notes is pretty nerdy. I was watching the news, but not with the notes.

[C]

I was. And I was watching English language news every night. And then we would also were watching Telemundo and Univistio on the Spanish language news, and it was like getting reports from two different countries, because on the English language news, I rarely saw any references to Latin America. But on the Spanish language news, it was about all the civil wars. It was about massacres in El Salvador and Guatemala during those years. There was just so much death and so much violence. And it was very clear, even to me, like, wait, what role do we have there exactly? It wasn't spelled out necessarily. But now we know, obviously, looking back, that we were intimately involved. We were training death squads in El Salvador. We were sending millions of dollars in military aid to these countries. And so of course, people did what they needed to do, they fled. So, yeah, we are here because you were there.

[A]

Yeah, there's kind of this idea of like colonization, meaning that folks in those places become to some degree U.S. citizens.

[G]

Right.

[A]

Because kind of we broke it, you know, and so now there is now a connection. Whether or not there should be. There is now a strong connection between these two places.

[C]

Yeah, it was a really powerful moment in my research when I discovered the work of this legal scholar at UCLA, Dr. Achume, who writes about that, you know, we need to think about the United States as an empire, as having been so intimately involved in the day to day lives of these countries. So not empire in the way we think of the British empire or the Spanish empire, but still we're deeply involved in these people's lives. And so it means that someone in El Salvador is actually already a member of our political community, that when they arrive at the border, they are not a foreigner. Their lives have been so determined, not only by our foreign policy, but by corporations being allowed to determine so much of the economic situation in their countries.

[A]

There's something else you talk about in the book that I hadn't thought of before. Social citizenship.

[F]

Citizenship.

[A]

Can you kind of explain that?

[C]

Yeah. So this is from the work of a socialist named T.H. marshall, writing in the mid 20th century. He talked about there sort of being this triad of citizenship, civil citizenship, political citizenship, and social and political and civil are you have the right to vote, you have the right to own property, free speech, et cetera. But then he said, what we saw in the 20th century was social citizenship. Do you have access to a doctor? Are you able to go to school?

[F]

School?

[C]

Are you able to pay for rent? And so a lot of times when we're talking about issues of racism in this country, of sexism, of xenophobia, what we're talking about is your social citizenship. So I might have a piece of paper, I have a passport that says I'm a citizen of this country, but what exactly can I do with that citizenship?

[A]

Yeah, we're talking to Daisy Hernandez about her book Citizenship Notes on an American Myth. Something else that you're talking about in the book is that this idea of citizenship is almost, maybe too broad in the sense that depending on what state you live in, so you could be a citizen, you could have the proper paperwork. But if you're not part of that social citizen network, or if you're in a place where you're not looked out for as A person who's come to this country from somewhere else. It's almost like the question is, what state are you a citizen of as much as the U.S. absolutely.

[C]

Right now it is. I say we are more a citizen of the state in which we live than we are of the United States. And you see this so viscerally with families that are trying to protect their transgender children. So we have people who have begun to identify themselves as internally displaced political refugees because they're living in Texas, but they have a transgender child that needs gender affirming care. So they're literally moving themselves to different parts of the country. For women, this is really intense. Anyone who's trying to get pregnant or cares about access to reproductive rights, your relationship with that will be different whether you're living here or if you're living in Florida. I mean, it's just the reality that we're living in right now.

[A]

Speaking of family members of yours, I think it's. Was it your cousin Primo Primo that you talk about who had a green card so couldn't vote Right. In the presidential election, but was very concerned that Donald Trump would be deprived of the chance to become president again?

[C]

I think he didn't even have a green card yet.

[A]

Oh, really?

[C]

He has some kind of status that he didn't want to talk about with me.

[A]

Okay. But couldn't vote.

[C]

He didn't want me to write about him in the book.

[A]

Really?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, because, you know, you describe him as a gay Latino man who is a Trump supporter, and that just like those words don't seem like they should go in that order in a sentence, but you're not shocked by it. What is it about him and other people that might fall into that same general description where it's not shocking to you that they would support the idea of somebody like Donald Trump?

[C]

Yeah, it's not shocking because half of my family is Cuban. So I've grown up with almost all of them in South Florida voting Republican my entire life. And in his particular case, he was imprisoned in Cuba for being gay. And he really has and holds onto this story that the reason that happened to him was because of anything having to do with communism and socialism. So he was really afraid of anything like that happening in the United States States to the point that he felt very protected by what Trump was essentially offering, at least verbally making verbal promises to him. But as I write in the book, the more that he and I had several conversations about politics, this is before the 2024 election, I really came to also Appreciate that he's a gay man and he doesn't necessarily have citizenship, but his partner does, his husband does, and, and he is white, and he has, like a very good, comfortable middle class life in certain ways. And so he has a sense of, I have to protect this. I got this little bit here, and now I need to protect it from anybody who might threaten it. And what Trump was promising was, I will protect you and I'll protect this little bit. Even if it was a lie, Many, many, many people believed it.

[A]

Yeah. You've spent so much time in the last few years really studying this question of citizenship and the history of it in this country. And I'm just curious about, do you feel like right now is, where would you sort of rank it in terms of the history of this country? And I guess my question is, are we in one of the absolute worst periods of time around citizenship, around immigration, around how we treat people in this country who may not have been born here?

[C]

Yes, we are.

[A]

Really?

[C]

Yep. Yep.

[B]

We agree.

[C]

Right?

[A]

Well, it feels terrible to me, but I'm, you know, I'm but 49 years old, so I've only had so much experience. You've been studying the history of the country. You're saying this is based on your study? This is as bad as it's ever been.

[C]

So I don't know, can I say this is the worst compared to a moment in time in which we enslaved black Americans? Maybe that's a different kind of conversation. But in terms of the last hundred years and since we've had the 14th amendment, for folks who don't know, the Trump administration is now arguing that the children of undocumented citizens are not covered by the 14th Amendment that grants you citizenship based on being born in this country. So the fact that we've reached that point is pretty revealing about how bleak the situation is right now. I mean, we've all seen this past year, right? People, people with citizenship screaming, you know, whether they're dealing with ICE or something else, you know, I'm a citizen, I'm a citizen, you know, kind of trying to realizing what the philosopher Hannah Arendetti told us, which is, you know, citizenship is the right to have rights, and if you don't have a government that will honor and respect your rights, it really calls into question, what rights do you have as a citizen.

[A]

Do you think that the moment in time that we're in right now is revealing the essential nature of people, which is to say xenophobia and a sense of, I have mine, I don't want anyone else to come take it? Or do you think it's the politics of our moment? I guess the nature of my question is do you see any reason why we may be able to actually go in a positive direction long term on the topic of citizenship?

[C]

We can always go in a positive direction. Absolutely. We can always go in a positive direction. And you don't have to believe me. You just have to look at our own history. Right. There was a point in time in which on paper, black Americans, Chicanos could on paper vote, but literally they couldn't actually go and vote at the polls. And we are the ones who change that.

[B]

Right?

[C]

So there's a point in time in which a gay man could not marry his partner, let alone adopt children or raise children. That has changed dramatically. So we absolutely, as I said before, we're the authors of the story of citizenship, so we can definitely move it in a positive direction.

[A]

Well, you are literally the author of the book Citizenship. You're Daisy Hernandez. Thank you so much for coming on Livewire. That was Daisy Hernandez recorded live at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon. Her book Notes on an American Myth is available now. You are listening to Livewire from PRX. We are celebrating the 4th of July this week and we gotta take a quick break, but don't go anywhere. When we get back, we are going to hear a very touching song which is literally about America from singer songwriter Olive Klug. Stay with us here on Livewire. On Deck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team or bridging cash flow gaps, On Deck's loans up to $400,000, make it happen fast. Rated A by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five star trustpilot reviews, On Deck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in [e-mail] depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic Bank. On Deck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. Welcome back to Livewire Radio. I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. Okay, before we get to this week's musical performance from Olive Klug on our special fourth of July show, a little preview of next week's program. We're going to be joined by Aubrey Gordon. She's the host of the hit podcast Maintenance Phase, which debunks diet and wellness trends and lore from Ozempic to whether or not people are actually living into their 1/ hundreds in those blue zone places that we heard so much about. Then the writer and multidisciplinary artist Jean Grey will tell us about how she made a puppet show in her apartment that almost broke her as a person. It's all detailed in her book in my remaining years. Then we're get some music from a truly one of a kind musician, Brazilian singer, songwriter Joshe. So make sure you tune in next week for Livewire. In the meantime, our musical guest this week has a sound that is reminiscent of the golden age of American folk music, which just kind of feels right when you're celebrating the fourth of July. But they've also got uniquely modern lyrical sensibility. How modern? Well, they've gotten millions of views on TikTok, many of them from me. Their latest album is Lost dawn, which they released in 2025. Olive Klug joined us on stage at the Holt center for the Performing Arts in Eugene, Oregon, back in September of 2023. Take a listen. Olive, welcome to Livewire. Thanks for being here.

[G]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

[A]

What song are we gonna hear?

[G]

So it's called Song about America and I wrote it when I was on a solo tour through the United States and that was when the drag ban was happening in Tennessee. And it was also when just a lot of talk was going on about banning gender affirming care in a lot of states that I was driving through. And I was also at the same time getting reached out to by different companies to be like, oh, be in our pride campaign for like GoDaddy, which is my website host, which I was just like, this is just really intense cognitive dissonance that I'm experiencing right now of like, you know, there's this world where we're really accepted when it's corporations asking us to promote their stuff and then, you know, not actually seen as human by politicians. And so, yeah, I don't typically write overtly political music. And so I'm actually a little nervous to play this song today because I'm like, this isn't normal normally what I do. Yeah.

[A]

All right, this is Olive Klug here on Livewire.

[F]

Convenient and fast. I swear Kansas lasts forever Billboard called me sooner. All my thoughts were screaming at me through the vast well they grew me in a bubble Sheltered me from all that rubble and said maybe history is just the past so I might even try to write a song about America. Let's do the begin too daunting task. Great pains, stomach pains Boarded up the windows on the south side of town Unmarked graves Jesus saves Keep your credit up and your head down? You better keep your credit up? Down? And now I'm passing in Tennessee, Another place I'm scared to be? Where they celebrate the sound band, the dress? And while they hold the burning fork? She's boarded a train to New York where she'll pay triple rent and learn how to pass? But hey, everything's so different now with corporate pride, campaigns and how hot Hollywood's just getting so d. But I'm not even gonna try to write a song about America, so I'll settle for a chorus in the verse. Great plain stomach aches? Boarded up the windows on the south side of town? Unmarked graves? Jesus said keep your credit up and your head down? You better keep your credit up. And your head down? Sitting in the forest where a cop can learn to kill? The one who blames the addict Is the one who made the table. Two million in cages? Yet we boast about free will? I feel like I. But there's just too many? Oh, who the hell am I to write a song about America? But if anybody's listening, I will. Great flame, it's growing pains? I know things have got to change? I don't know how? Strike the match, we'll start from scratch? Just keep your head up high? Don't drop your. I think we're coming back? We're coming back around? I think we're coming back? We're coming back around? I think we're coming back? We're coming back around? I think we're coming back? We're coming back? We're coming back? We're coming back, we're coming back. Thank you.

[A]

That was Olive Klug, recorded live at the Holt center for the Performing Arts in beautiful Eugene Orange. You can check out what Olive is up [e-mail]. All right, that is gonna do it for this week's special Independence Day episode of Livewire. A huge thanks to our guests Jamie Loftus, Daisy Hernandez and Olive Klug.

[D]

Laura Haddon is our executive producer, and our producer and editor is Melanie Savchenko. Eben Hoffer and Matt Molly Pettit are our technical directors for this episode. Trey Hester is our assistant editor, and Ashley park is our marketing manager.

[A]

Our house sound is by D. Neal Blake. Our house band is Ethan Fox Tucker, Al Alves, Sam Tucker, Matt Sheehy and Awalker Spring, who also composes our music. This episode was mixed by Molly Pettit, Eben Hoffer, and Trey Hester.

[D]

Additional funding provided by the Oregon Arts Commission, a state agency funded by the State of Oregon and the National Endowment for the Arts. Livewire was created by Robin Tenenbaum and

[A]

Kate Sokoloff, and this week we'd like to thank members Cass and Bob Friedland of Vancouver, Washington. For more information about our show or how you can listen to our podcast, head ON over to livewireradio.org I'm Luke Burbank. For Elena Passarello and the whole Livewire crew, thank you so much for listening and we will see you next week. Hey, if you appreciate the work that Livewire is doing to amplify riveting and unexpected voices to a national audience, and I gotta tell you, it's a big audience these days, please, please, please consider offering some monthly support by becoming a member of of our League of Extraordinary Listeners. Here's how it works. Membership starts at just five bucks a month and there are great perks at every level, including a special shout out on the broadcast. Impress your friends by being shouted out on Livewire. It means the world to us and really does make it possible for us to do the show. So please, if you can help, support us by visiting livewireradio.org Memberships.

[E]

From prx.