Kari Ferrell, Zak Toscani, and Ural Thomas and the Pain (REBROADCAST)

Summary

Live Wire with Luke Burbank

Episode: Kari Ferrell, Zak Toscani, and Ural Thomas and the Pain
Date Originally Recorded: April 2025 (Aired: February 13, 2026)
Host: Luke Burbank
Announcer: Elena Passarello
Guests: Kari Ferrell (writer and memoirist), Zak Toscani (comedian), Ural Thomas and the Pain (band)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Live Wire dives into eclectic realms of resilience, reinvention, and community. Host Luke Burbank and announcer Elena Passarello lead listeners through an engaging mix:

• Kari Ferrell discusses her memoir and transformation from ‘hipster grifter’ to advocate and author
• Zak Toscani delivers stand-up about growing up goth in Hawaii and dentist mishaps
• Ural Thomas and the Pain bring the soulful sounds of love to the stage

The episode explores how people overcome their past, find humor in adversity, and nourish connections across generations and cultures.

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Segment Breakdown & Key Highlights

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1. Good News Roundup

Timestamps: 03:51–09:41

Purpose:
Luke & Elena share uplifting stories to open the show.

Highlights:

• Wisdom the Albatross:
  • Elena recounts the story of Wisdom, a Laysan albatross, banded in 1951, still hatching eggs at 74+ years old.
  • “She's closer to 100 than she is to 45.” – Elena, [05:23]
  • “Wisdom and her new partner... sat on this egg for the better part...” – Elena, [07:03]
  • Themes of resilience, adaptation, and intergenerational legacy.
• Doug Turner’s Neighborhood Rager:
  • Luke shares the story of 87-year-old Doug Turner, who throws legendary neighborhood parties in Bucks County, PA.
  • “4pm until the cops arrive” – invitation tagline, [08:20]
  • Joy from community-building, challenging stereotypes about aging.

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2. Interview: Kari Ferrell – “Hipster Grifter” to Memoirist & Advocate

Timestamps: 09:41–32:17

Background & Bio:
Kari Ferrell was a media sensation as the so-called “hipster grifter.” She’s now re-entered public life with a raw, funny, and reflective memoir: You’ll Never Believe Me: A Life of Lies, Second Tries, and Things I Should Only Tell My Therapist.

Key Discussion Points

Early Life and Identity

• Adopted from Korea as a baby, raised by white Mormon parents in Utah.
• “My parents are the whitest white people you've ever seen. And this is Portland. So I'm looking around and I'm seeing... I feel at home.” – Kari, [11:17]
• Mormonism dominated every aspect of her social and family life.

Beginnings of Deception

• Outsider experience fueled self-defensive humor, then lying as a coping mechanism.
• “Part of the reason I'm so outgoing... is born out of the fact that I was like, I have to make fun of myself... before they do it.” – Kari, [12:20]
• Discovery that people believed her lies was initially liberating:
  “There was this weird freedom where I was like, oh, people will just believe what I'm saying.” – Kari, [12:57]
  “I was a star pupil, a master class in manipulation... For better or worse. Mostly worse.” – Kari, [03:12] & [12:57]

Escalation: Scams and Seeking Belonging

• “It was just an issue of identity, and it was an issue of not having a community to fall back on... I was addicted... more to the attention than money.” – Kari, [16:22]
• Describes the paradox of stealing from friends/boyfriend to gain acceptance:
  “It was really a way for me to ingratiate myself into these groups of people. And, in retrospect, now I'm like, oh, I didn't need any of that. But... I really felt like I had to do everything... to solidify myself as a person people wanted to be around.” – Kari, [17:38]
• Moved to NYC to “reinvent” herself, but quickly fell into old habits amid financial desperation.

Public Notoriety and the “Hipster Grifter” Era

• The media storm, mugshot virality, and being at the center of coveted New York scenes.
• “Your mugshot is posted. People are comparing notes about their interactions with you... What did that feel like?” – Luke, [21:02]
• “It was wild... the moniker ‘hipster grifter’... At the time, people were like, ‘what is a hipster, and what is a grifter, really?’... The ‘hipster’ part of it, that was like the worst part to me.” – Kari, [21:45]
• Reflections on race and gender in her treatment:
  “It was very race-based and misogynistic…look at this cute Asian girl who is actually this like, fierce, bad dragon lady kind of thing.” – Kari, [22:32]

Arrest, Incarceration, and Systemic Critique

• Apprehended in Philadelphia, spent almost a year incarcerated.
• “It was this eye-opening moment…it's all different types of people... Seeing the system and how it really wants to keep people in... trying to get people to view punishment... through a different lens.” – Kari, [24:17–25:41]

Rehabilitation, Writing, and Public Critique

• Emphasizes accountability and the difficulty of “profiting” from a criminal past.
• Points to double standards in how society treats (white, male) figures like Jordan Belfort vs. herself.
• “Why, then, will people look at me and be like, ‘Oh, she should not be able to write a book or profit off...’... I'm really not trying to profit off the crime part of it.” – Kari, [26:14–27:30]

Humorous “Identity Theft” Quiz Segment

• Luke quizzes Kari on criminal nicknames and stories; both display wit and humor.
• Kari’s quip: “If I know anything, it's dumb men, right?” – Kari, [30:19]

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Notable Quotes

• “I just picked up on things really quickly. For better or worse. Mostly worse.” – Kari, [03:12]
• “I just needed someone to talk to.” – Kari (about criminals sharing their stories), [31:38]
• “The book is great. That's the good news. The book is 'You'll Never Believe Me.'” – Luke, [32:09]
• “[On being labeled a grifter] The ultimate grift, right?” – Kari, [27:30]

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3. Audience Participation: "What's the Most Trouble You've Ever Gotten Into?"

Timestamps: 34:08–37:33

Highlights:

• Anna: As a kid, planned to bike from Massachusetts to California to meet Stevie Nicks, secretly skipping school and mapping out her epic quest. Got caught when her parents intercepted the school call.
• Kim: Got her mouth washed with soap for saying the F-word as a child, then did it again next week.

Themes: Ingenious and rebellious youth, nostalgia, humor in parenting.

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4. Stand-Up Comedy: Zach Toscani

Timestamps: 38:14–45:51

Set Highlights:

• Tooth Trouble in Portland:
  • Dentist says: “Man, I don’t know... teeth are weird.”
  • "It's like your tooth rolled its ankle." – Dentist via Zach, [03:26]
• Goth Childhood in Hawaii:
  • “Goths are not indigenous to Hawaii. We are an invasive species.”
  • Wore JNCO jeans, black-painted puka shell necklace: “I thought I could bridge the cultures.”
• Identity Shift:
  • “I tried to start a goth ukulele band. We were called Laid to Rest.”
  • “I put down my sword... stop being goth... It was when I tasted mango for the first time.”
• Memorable Moment:
  • “I must have ruined a lot of people’s vacations just being in the background of a photo.”
  • [Audience laughter throughout]

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5. Musical Guest: Ural Thomas and the Pain

Timestamps: 49:53–53:56

Background:
Ural Thomas was once a shipyard repairman, previously a soul singer (The Montereys), then rediscovered and reignited his music career at age 74. Now touring internationally with his band.

Performance:

• Song: “Gotta Say I Love You” (from The Right Time, 2018)
• Atmosphere: Soulful, passionate, vintage sound that celebrates timeless love.
• Lyrics sample:
  • "People say I'm crazy to tell you this, but I love you. And how can I resist, saying it's true..." [50:23]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Outgrowing Old Patterns:
  • “In retrospect, now I'm like, oh, I didn't need any of that.” – Kari Ferrell, [17:38]
• Unique Self-Deprecation:
  • “If I know anything, it’s dumb men, right?” – Kari Ferrell, [30:19]
• Resilience & Belonging:
  • “I just need to be remembered for... not being forgotten. I mean, I think it's kind of adopted Kid Abandonment 101.” – Kari, [16:22]
• Comedic Transformation:
  • “You are the Hot Topic.” – Zach Toscani’s mom, [40:14]
  • “God is good. You guys have been excellent.” – Zach Toscani, [45:49]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Best News of the Week: 03:51–09:41
• Kari Ferrell Interview: 09:41–32:17
• Audience Trouble Stories: 34:08–37:33
• Zak Toscani Stand-Up: 38:14–45:51
• Ural Thomas & the Pain Song: 49:53–53:56

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Tone & Style

• Warm, irreverent, and self-aware—true to Live Wire's brand.
• Deeply personal yet inviting, with frequent use of humor to navigate thorny topics.
• Multigenerational and multicultural stories woven seamlessly together.

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In Summary

This episode of Live Wire is a journey through mischief, redemption, and soul—spotlighting voices who have transformed struggle into creative expression and connection. Whether learning from the “hipster grifter,” laughing with a recovering goth, or losing yourself in timeless soul, the show celebrates resilience, self-discovery, and community. Listeners leave with hope, a few laughs, and a soulful tune replaying in their heads.

Transcript

[Luke Burbank]

Hey there. Welcome to Livewire. I'm your host Luke Burbank. This week on the show we are talking to writer and one time arrestee Carrie Farrell about her memoir, you'll Never Believe Me, A Life of Lies, Second Tries and Things I Should Only Tell My Therapist, in which she unpacks her life from being the adopted child of a family that converted to Mormonism after they moved to Utah to how she ended up lying, stealing and getting busted as the so called hidden hipster grifter in New York City, a title she did not exactly relish at the time. Then we are gonna hear some stand up comedy from comedian Zach Toscani. Now, he was never a hipster grifter, but he was a kid who moved to Hawaii and was goth and he was trying to square those two realities. He'll talk about it. Then Portland legend himself, Yrl Thomas and the Pain will play us an earnest and soulful tune that's all about love. Stick around. We've got a great episode of Livewire coming your way right after this.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

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[Luke Burbank]

This episode of Livewire was originally recorded in April of 2025. We hope you enjoy it. Now let's get to the show from prx.

[Carrie Farrell]

It's Livewire.

[Elena Passarello]

This week. Writer Carrie Farrell.

[Carrie Farrell]

I think that I was a star pupil, a master class in manipulation, and I just picked up on things really quickly. For better or worse. Mostly worse.

[Elena Passarello]

Comedian Zach Toscani, he goes, it's like.

[Zach Toscani]

Your tooth rolled its ankle. And at that point I was like, hey, man, if you're not a real dentist, it's fine.

[Elena Passarello]

With music from Eurl Thomas and the Pain and our fabulous house band, I'm your announcer, Elaina Passarello. And now the host of Livewire, Lou Burbank.

[Luke Burbank]

We have a fabulous show in store for you this week, so let's get right to it. I'm not sure if you have been following the news lately, but I would say don't. But we thought it might be helpful at the top of this week's show to start off with a couple of things from the news that don't literally actively suck.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

With a little segment we call the best news we heard all week. Elena, what is the best news you heard all week?

[Elena Passarello]

Okay, so it's news, but it's old. If this is okay, it's.

[Luke Burbank]

I'll take it from any time period.

[Elena Passarello]

Okay.

[Luke Burbank]

Where things were less bad than they are now.

[Elena Passarello]

Best. Yeah. Okay, so this is the story of a liaison albatross, which is this specific kind of albatross, 90% of which nests on one island, Midway island, which is that island halfway kind of between Japan and Hawaii. Used to be a big military base there. Not there anymore. And now it's just full of albatrosses. They fly over the ocean 10 months out of the year and then they come back to Midway, almost all of them. So they really have to be protected. And they co parent a little egg. Okay, there is this one albatross. This is wisdom. Guess how old wisdom is. 45. So ancient. Because that's what I am.

[Luke Burbank]

I've ever guessed. 100. Come on, like, play along.

[Elena Passarello]

Well, let's put it this way. She's closer to 100 than she is to 45.

[Luke Burbank]

How old?

[Elena Passarello]

We don't know exactly how old she is, but she is at least 74 years old.

[Luke Burbank]

Whoa. OK, OK, I take it back. I'm sorry. 100 was not a bad guess. I apologize.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

You see that little.

[Elena Passarello]

There's a little band on her foot that says Z333. That was put on her. Well, a different version of that number in 1951. And then she was a fully grown nesting albatross. She's still laying eggs and hatching chicks. She's had about 36 that we know of, but of course we can't know for sure. And albatross's mate for life. She had a partner named Akeakamai. And every December, bird jerks like me are like waiting with bated breath to see if Wisdom's gonna come back to Midway Island. She keeps coming back. She keeps laying eggs. And then in 2023, I think Akea Kamai didn't come back.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, wow.

[Elena Passarello]

2024, she showed up and she started dancing because lays on albatrosses, when they go on the market, they have this youtubable funky town dance that they do to learn if they're compatible with a mate that they're gonna co parent this and sit for hours and hours and hours on this nest with. And guess who came back in December 2024. Guess who laid an egg and guess what happened?

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, Wisdom laid this egg and it hatched. And it looks like this little albatross is. It's healthy.

[Elena Passarello]

Wisdom and her new partner, who we don't know anything about, sat on this egg for the better part.

[Luke Burbank]

Presumably younger though.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah, younger man for sure. Like hundred percent.

[Luke Burbank]

Don't hate, congratulate.

[Elena Passarello]

Okay. And not to mention Wisdom's children and grandchildren. We know her granddaughter was born on the island not too long ago, so she's beating out multiple generations for these new hot suitors, which is very exciting to me. So, yeah, if you're ever looking.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

If.

[Elena Passarello]

You'Re ever looking for something to cheer you up around November, Dec, January, all of the albatrosses in Midway and there are tens of thousands of them are really fun to keep track of. And the people who love Wisdom will always put a smile on their face because they are so full of joy because of this great bird. So we love her.

[Luke Burbank]

Wisdom, the albatross man, That is. It's a tough act to follow. Pasorello.

[Elena Passarello]

Sorry.

[Luke Burbank]

The best news I saw this week came by way of Bucks County, Pennsylvania. A woman named Michelle Hernandez and her husband moved out there a few years ago. They bought a house and it's a pretty good neighborhood. They do have this one neighbor though, that like throws this rager party every year.

[Carrie Farrell]

Oh, no.

[Luke Burbank]

But it turns out this guy is 87 year old Doug Turner, who we have. Yeah, Doug. We have with some ring camera evidence of Doug Turner dropping off the invite to this party at Michelle Hernandez's house. The thing that's interesting about this party that Doug Turner has been throwing every year since his wife passed away some time ago. It's a way for him to stay connected to the neighbors. Doug, though he is 87 years old, he is not in any way diminished in terms of his partying. This is the invite, which I think we also have a picture of. It says 4pm until the cops arrive. Until the. Like, because so many people now have these ring cameras. This was all filmed at Michelle Hernandez's house. I mean, she wasn't planning on it, but then like Doug showed up with the invite. So she went back and got the footage and like put it online. And of course it's the Internet, so everybody went crazy for it. People started calling Doug to try to figure out where the party was.

[Elena Passarello]

Cause there's numbers on the invitation.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, like so. And then the media started interviewing him. And then he had to remember in the interviews to not give away too many specifics about where in Bucks county they are. Luckily, they were able to keep it relatively under wraps. They had. The winter party was a big hit. I don't know if the cops were called or not. It seemed like it was a peaceful affair.

[Elena Passarello]

Oh, good.

[Luke Burbank]

But I mean, just the fact that Doug Turner is bringing the neighborhood together at a time when I feel like we need more. We need more Doug Turner energy going on around here. I'm gonna say that's the best news I heard this week. All right, let's welcome our first guest on out here. Now listen, before, scammers were getting the royal treatment with all these like Netflix documentaries now, you know, it's like you do something and then they make a whole show about it. Well, our first guest was making headlines before this was the whole thing within a very specific kind of social circle. She was dubbed the hipster grifter after a series of kind of like mid level fleecing of a certain kind of Williamsburg Brooklyn person. She did some time and now a decade later, she has re entered the public eye with her memoir, you'll Never Believe me, which the New York Times book review calls captivating, sharp, and very funny. Please welcome Carrie Farrell to LiveW. Kerry, welcome to Livewire.

[Carrie Farrell]

Thank you so much for having me. This is crazy.

[Luke Burbank]

Wow.

[Carrie Farrell]

Thank you.

[Luke Burbank]

I Was one of the folks very aware of the kind of media storm around you back when you were being dubbed the hipster grifter. Let's start, though, with a little bit of sort of biographical information. You were born in Korea and then you were adopted by your parents at about what age?

[Carrie Farrell]

Yeah, I was about five months old. My parents are the whitest white people you've ever seen. And this is Portland. So I'm looking around and I'm seeing.

[Luke Burbank]

I see these folks know from whiteness.

[Carrie Farrell]

I feel at home. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Now, you grew up Mormon. How big of a part of your life growing up, and you moved, your family moved to Utah for this? Yeah. Like, how central to your existence was, like, Mormonism for you as a kid?

[Carrie Farrell]

It was everything. I mean, it was one of those things where if you were non Mormon, which there are very few and far between.

[Luke Burbank]

In Utah.

[Carrie Farrell]

In Utah, you were, like, begging your parents to let you go to church because it controlled your entire life, your social calendar, you know, every facet of it. So, yeah, it was a very interesting upbringing, especially because I look the way that I do.

[Luke Burbank]

Sure. Yeah. Were you. I mean, my guess would be that in most scenarios, you were the only person who looked like you in most of the rooms you were in. How did you try to make sense of that? How did you navigate that as a kid?

[Carrie Farrell]

I mean, it started with. Really. I think part of the reason I'm so outgoing and my personality and ridiculous sense of humor is born out of the fact that I was like, all right, I know that I have to make fun of myself in a better way than anyone else before they do it. Yeah, yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

There is a point in the book where you kind of. It seems like there's a shift in you where you realize that you can just lie to people. Basically, you figured out lying is going to give people the answer they want, and I can just be on with my life. Do you remember that being kind of like a pretty big moment of realization for you?

[Carrie Farrell]

I do. And that's because up until that point, I really was sort of the quintessential perfect Mormon child. You know, one of those things where I was like, oh, I don't want to say the word, but, you know. And yeah, there was this weird freedom that came with that where I was like, oh, people will just believe what I'm saying. And then I guess, bigger picture, I looked at people around me and the church specifically, and how they were doing that. And so I think that I was a star pupil in master class in manipulation, and I just picked up on things really quickly. For better or worse? Mostly worse.

[Luke Burbank]

We call that foreshadowing in the business because we're going to hear more about that in a moment. This is Livewire from prx. We're talking to the writer and we're happy to say reformed scammer Carrie Farrell about her book. You'll never believe me. We've got to take a very quick break, but don't go anywhere. We will be right.

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[Luke Burbank]

Welcome back to LIVEWIRE from prx. I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarella. We're at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon, and we are talking to Carrie Farrell about her book you'll never believe, A life of Lies, second Tries, and things I should only tell my therapist. Carrie, you became kind of famous in these certain kind of social circles for some scamming that you were doing. But before that was in New York when this first became kind of a national story. But before you got to New York, you had started stealing from some people and lying to people in Utah that you knew, including you write in the book, like a boyfriend that you really liked.

[Carrie Farrell]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Like what do you think was going on psychologically for you that you were doing this thing that you must have known had to lead to the end of the relationship.

[Carrie Farrell]

First off, I love unpacking trauma in front of a live audience right now.

[Luke Burbank]

Wow.

[Carrie Farrell]

Yeah, this is great. No, I think that again, I was very much still myself throughout all of it. And as things escalated I get the question. A lot of, well, why did you not use aliases, fake names? Why were you going to places and, I guess, picking up people that you would legitimately be friends with? And it was just an issue of identity, and it was an issue of not having a community to fall back on. And, you know, I really just was addicted. Not to drugs or even the money. It was more so the attention, for sure, but also of not being forgotten. And, I mean, I think it's kind of adopted Kid Abandonment 101. But I was like, yeah, I just need to be remembered for. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. So it must have been incredibly stressful. Or maybe it wasn't. I don't know. You tell me in those early days where you starting to lie to your friends and you're like, you know, you're writing these bad checks to, like, your boyfriend's checking account, which you know is eventually gonna come back on you, and yet you're also living this kind of fun lifestyle with all these people. Did it just feel like there was always a sort of another shoe that was gonna drop somewhere for you?

[Carrie Farrell]

For sure. And, you know, a lot of people, I think, had this vision of me plotting and planning, you know, with, like, my red string and cork board, you know, putting it all together, really wasn't like that at all. I was just operating under the idea that by the time these checks would bounce, that I would have the money to pay the person back. And sometimes that did happen. More often than not. Obviously it didn't, but it was never a thing where I intentionally was like, I'm going to scam this person. It was really just, you know, I also had a job, so it wasn't even that I needed the money again. It was like, I wanted to treat my friends. I wanted to be buying things, obviously for myself, but also for them. So it was really a way for me to ingratiate myself into these groups of people. And, you know, in retrospect, now I'm like, oh, I didn't need any of that. But for whatever reason, at the time, I really felt like I had to do everything that I could to solidify myself as a person that people wanted to be around.

[Luke Burbank]

Right. So you would be essentially stealing money from people and then taking a bunch of people out to, like, Applebee's.

[Carrie Farrell]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

And buying the whole meal for everyone.

[Carrie Farrell]

The old spaghetti factory. But, yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, hell yes.

[Elena Passarello]

Better choice, actually.

[Luke Burbank]

That place is pretty good.

[Carrie Farrell]

You get to be a trolley car. I mean, that's pretty cool.

[Luke Burbank]

So you did end up moving to New York. What were you thinking was gonna happen in New York? Was the idea to move there and reinvent yourself yet again as like a law abiding citizen?

[Carrie Farrell]

Yeah, I mean, I thought exactly that. I was like, okay, here's my opportun. I knew also that I wanted to be somewhere that had more culture. But I went out there thinking exactly that, that I was going to just live a quote unquote normal life. And, you know, I did that for five or six months, tried to find a job. Lo and behold, you know, New York City is an expensive place to live. Who would have thought? Again, people were like, oh, you're too smart for your own good. I was like, no, no. All of these decisions were so stupid and I wasn't really thinking at all. And so it led me to needing to make money somehow. And I mean, unfortunately, most people know what it's like to be one or two paychecks away from not knowing what they would do to get money. And I think that's another reason that the story ultimately is very relatable, because it's easy to see yourself on either side of my circumstance. And, you know, obviously that's not to negate any of the very, very poor decisions that I made. But, you know, one of the reasons that I wrote the book was really to help to get that message out there. And, you know, my goal is really just to help people, hopefully you know, move the needle toward a more compassionate society.

[Luke Burbank]

It's Livewire Radio. We're talking to Carrie Farrell about her book youk'll Never Believe Me. There must have been this kind of crazy moment for you where you are suddenly the obsession of this social group that you had really wanted to probably break into. Right? Again, all of the people of a certain kind of hipster class in New York City are talking about you. Your mugshot is posted. People are comparing notes about their interactions with you. So you're like kind of the person they're talking about, but like, not for maybe the best reason. Like, what did that feel like for you?

[Carrie Farrell]

It was wild. And I mean, at the time, I really didn't understand why people cared or why they were so interest. I mean, this was 2008, 2009. So obviously social media didn't exist in the way that it does now. So it really was one of the first viral scam stories. I mean, the moniker hipster grifter. I remember there being articles within the articles having to explain what a grifter was because it just was not part of our vernacular. Now it's like, everyone's a grifter. Everything's a grift. But at the time, people were like, wait, what is a hipster? And what is a grifter, really? And me being an actual hipster, I was like, oh, God. The hipster part of it, really, that was like the worst part of it to me.

[Luke Burbank]

I was wondering if you were, like, a little bit flattered.

[Carrie Farrell]

No, I was not. I, you know, like, I guess I've accepted it because I have to. It is a part of me for sure. But yeah, but shout out to the observer, I guess, because how smart of them to coin. Like, that's really what made it such a viral story. But yeah, it was really interesting because I still never felt like I fit in. And it was, you know, I guess, again, I want to be very clear, I'm like, aggressively accountable for what I did. But ultimately, you know, I was thrown up on a most wanted list with people who did far, far worse things. We just, you know, 2009, Obama was president. We had hope. You know, there were all of these things.

[Luke Burbank]

Don't remind these people.

[Carrie Farrell]

I know, I'm so sorry, I shouldn't bring that up. I apologize. But we had just, you know, we were recovering from a recession. Yeah, it was very race based and misogynistic. It was kind of like, look at this, you know, cute Asian girl who is actually this like, fierce, bad dragon lady kind of thing. And, you know, at a certain point, the state of Utah really just wanted to throw the book at me.

[Luke Burbank]

So you go to. You sort of got like tricked into going to Philadelphia thinking that you're gonna go, like, on tour with your friend's band and maybe make your way back west, but instead the cops are there for you. You get. And this is where the story really kind of takes a bit of a turn because you ended up spending, I don't know how long it was in Philly in detention before they could take you back to Utah. But it was a little bit of time and you really started to connect with the other inmates in the jail that you're in.

[Carrie Farrell]

Yeah, so I went to Philly, exactly. To go on tour with a friend's band. And I was like, all right, I'm gonna turn myself in in Utah. This was after hiding out in basically a flop house in Brooklyn for a couple of weeks, because people. There was literally like a manhunt for me through Gawker and things where people were, you know, like, I saw her in this place. And so I. The idea was that I was gonna have this sort of final hurrah on tour with them. And then once they got to Salt Lake City, I would turn myself in. That's what I was telling myself. Do I believe that? I mean, that's really what I thought, but I thought a lot of things at that time. And so. But yeah, I got off of the bus and yeah, the police were there to apprehend me. And I spent almost 30 days in the correctional facility there before I was con aired back to Utah, like literally in handcuffs on a plane.

[Luke Burbank]

You went back to Utah and then did you get a plea deal? Like, how long did you end up actually staying in jail over this stuff?

[Carrie Farrell]

So in total, it was almost a year. And to answer your other question about, you know, I started making these connections and with the other people that I met there. And up until that point, you know, I hadn't really had much experience with the legal system, with the judicial system, the carceral state in general. And so it was this, this like eye opening moment to me where I was like, oh, it's all different types of people. You know, you have an idea of what a criminal looks like. And I think again, a reason that my story took off is because I don't look the way that most people, you know, would think. And, you know, now it's like, statistically there are so many people who are incarcerated. Everyone here, everyone listening knows someone who's been affected by the system. And so, you know, seeing the system and how it really wants to keep people in for a number of reasons. My life now is really dedicated to advocacy and, you know, just trying to get people to view punishment specifically, you know, through a different lens, because we're really not doing anyone any favors when we let people out with nothing and expect them to just get better.

[Luke Burbank]

Have you. By the way, this book is really great. You're a really good writer.

[Carrie Farrell]

Thank you.

[Luke Burbank]

I'm really glad that this seems like a pretty good outcome from all of this because you are a very talented writer. But I'm guessing that the Internet being the Internet, not everyone is jazzed about you having a book deal over this, over these things that were crimes and where you did lie to people and stuff. What do you sort of say to somebody who's hearing this on the radio and they're like, wow, that's a pretty sweet deal. You did these scams and now you wrote a book about these scams. And now you're on livewire. The ultimate honor.

[Carrie Farrell]

Yeah, I mean, it truly is the ultimate honor.

[Luke Burbank]

I mean. No, but seriously, that Must be a conversation that's come up for sure.

[Carrie Farrell]

And I mean to. That I sort of would hold a mirror up and ask people why they feel that way. Particularly when people like Jordan Belfort. When people like Frank Abigail.

[Luke Burbank]

The wolf of Wall Street.

[Carrie Farrell]

The wolf of Wall Street.

[Luke Burbank]

Catch me if you can, guy.

[Carrie Farrell]

Exactly.

[Luke Burbank]

I'll just keep translating criminals.

[Carrie Farrell]

Yes. It's interesting that those people can have all of these things happen and then do kind of this speaking circuit where they get paid thousands and thousands of dollars to talk at some financial conference. Right. Why is that? Okay. But a person who did far less and who really is trying, and I don't know them, so, you know, they're very, well, maybe like a non profit component to what they're doing. They're an advocacy component. But why, you know, then will people look at me and be like, oh, she should not be able to write a book or profit off of this thing. And I'm really not trying to profit off of the crime part of it. Like, that's such a small part of the book. Which actually there's some like, Goodreads reviews where people are like, I went into this thinking it was gonna be like so much more salacious. So I'm sorry for those people. That's the ultimate grift, right?

[Luke Burbank]

May have been your greatest scam.

[Carrie Farrell]

Yeah, it really is.

[Luke Burbank]

This is Livewire radio. We're talking to Carrie Farrell. Okay. You did get the nickname the hipster grifter. The Observer. I guess somebody there put that nickname on you. Which kind of follows a long standing tradition of like the media and law enforcement sort of trying to put nicknames onto criminals and suspects and people are looking for. We wanted to see if how aware of this world you are from your experience. So we thought we would run a little quiz with you of other criminals to see if you can figure out how they got their nicknames. It's a little game we're calling identity theft. Okay. Why was Colton Harris Moore dubbed the Barefoot Bandit by media outlets? And it's multiple choice, so you've got options here. Was it because he removed his shoes before each burglary to reduce his carbon footprint? Was it because he committed his crimes barefoot? Was it because he exclusively stole left shoes from high end shoe retailers? Or was it because he claimed shoes were, quote, government tracking devices in his manifesto?

[Carrie Farrell]

I want to say it's the left shoe.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, he committed his crimes barefoot.

[Carrie Farrell]

Boring.

[Luke Burbank]

And then he would write. He would also, like draw these little chalk footprints and he would write the letters cya. Like, see Ya. At some of the crimes. He stole an airplane in Bonner's Ferry, Idaho, and he crash landed it 260 miles away. Which made sense because he had never flown an airplane before this. He had studied it on the Internet on how to do it. He also then got better at flying airplanes. He stole a different airplane in Indiana and flew it to the Bahamas where he crashed it in like the water right off of the Bahamas. Then stole a boat which the police shot the engine out of as he was trying to escape.

[Carrie Farrell]

Was he wearing shoes?

[Luke Burbank]

Exactly.

[Carrie Farrell]

I was gonna ask.

[Luke Burbank]

This is the whole point. Despite the widely reported nickname, officials say he was usually wearing shoes. How about this? How did the Liquor Store Lothario. That was the nickname. How did this person get the nickname, the Liquor Store Lothario after stealing a bottle of vodka? Was it because he made a kissy face to the security camera? Was it because he left his name and phone number with the clerk asking her on a date? Was it because his plan was to give the vodka to his girlfriend as a gift? Or was it d he was turned in by his wife once she discovered he had a girlfriend?

[Carrie Farrell]

It has to be that he asked the clerk out.

[Luke Burbank]

You're absolutely right.

[Carrie Farrell]

Yes, yes, yes. If I know anything, it's dumb men, right?

[Luke Burbank]

You're absolutely right. He handed the clerk his name and phone number, which made it really, really easy for the police to track him down.

[Carrie Farrell]

Amazing.

[Luke Burbank]

Okay, now we're hot. You've got one, right? Let's build on this. How did the bank robber, the Irreconcilable Differences bandit, get his name? Well, that really trips off the tongue, doesn't. Was it this was apparently a real nickname that a bandit had. Was it because this bandit got into a dramatic fight with his accomplice who left in a huff midway through the robbery? Was it because he demanded that the tellers place the money evenly into two separate bags? Was it because he shared with the teller that he was going through a divorce? Or was it because he was turned in by his ex wife who recognized him from the security camera footage? The Irreconcilable Differences Bandit.

[Carrie Farrell]

I want it to be the first one. I want it to be because it's.

[Luke Burbank]

Had a breakup happen.

[Carrie Farrell]

Yeah, like during. During. But is it the last one?

[Luke Burbank]

It is neither of those. It is that he told the teller he was going through a divorce. I'm telling you, these bandits just need someone to talk to.

[Carrie Farrell]

I just needed someone to talk to.

[Luke Burbank]

That part of your thing?

[Carrie Farrell]

Honestly, we need community.

[Luke Burbank]

We need however you can get it?

[Carrie Farrell]

Well, maybe not however you can get it. But, you know.

[Luke Burbank]

I would say that this guy might have deserved to do at least a little bit of time after telling the teller that he was going through a divorce. He also requested her help in wiring the money in such a way that his estranged wife's attorney would not be able to track it. So I feel like less bad for him now.

[Carrie Farrell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, not bad. The book is great. That's the good news. The book is you'll never believe Me. Carrie Farrell, thanks for coming on Livewire.

[Carrie Farrell]

Thank you.

[Luke Burbank]

That was writer and now activist Carrie Farrell here on Livewire. Her new memoir, you'll Never Believe me, is available right now. Hey there, Livewire listeners, it's Luke. We are kicking off our season on February 19th at the Alberta Rose Theater with New York Times best selling writer and cultural criticism Chuck Klosterman. He's gonna be there talking about his new book, football, which is about, you guessed it, football, but not in a way that you have to care about football to be interested in if you know Chuck's work. Plus, writer Annabel Gurwich will be there and we'll have some stand up comedy from Skyler Higley and former Camp Cope frontwoman Georgia Mack will be there to play some music. You can get tickets and more information right [e-mail] and we'll see you February 19th at the Alberta Rose. Hey. Special thanks this episode to Naomi Nussbaum of Portland, Oregon. Naomi is part of the Livewire member community and is generously supporting our show with a donation each month. And we are grateful for that support because it is vital in helping us keep this whole thing going. We could not do this without our members. So a big thanks to Naomi for helping keep Livewire in business. This is Livewire. I'm Luke Burbank. That's Elena Passarello, of course. Each week we like to ask our audience a question inspired by Carrie Farrell's life on both sides of the law. We asked our listeners something. What do we ask them?

[Elena Passarello]

Elena? We wanted to know what's the most trouble you've ever gotten into?

[Luke Burbank]

So here's what we did. We actually sent our production fellow Ashley park out into the audience at a recent live taping of the show at the Alberta Rose in Portland and had some people answer that very question. What is the most trouble you've ever gotten into? Now, this is kind of a long story from Anna, but it pays off. Alaina, take a listen to this.

[Audience Member (Anna)]

When I was around 12, I hated school. And I was really obsessed with Ms. Stevie Nicks. And I decided that I should go to Marina Del Rey, where I heard that she lived. But I lived in western Massachusetts. So every day for like 10 days, I skipped school and plotted out on a map how to ride my bike, which I bought with money that I had saved without my parents knowing so that I could ride my bike from Massachusetts to California to meet Stevie Nicks.

[Luke Burbank]

This is a real caper, by the way. You've got the, you know, the. The 10 days where Anna is just like practicing her riding skills. She's got the bike that she purchased without her parents knowledge, there's maps and she's skipping school. She's skipping school. That's actually gonna come up here in the rest of the story that ends up being her undoing. Not to spoil anything.

[Audience Member (Anna)]

I got and farther on my bike every day. But I always had to turn around because I hit like a highway or something. And then I got caught. Every day the school called to say that I wasn't there and I had been erasing them from the answering machine. But one day I think I left on my bicycle too early and they got the call. They found out the jig was up. They found my maps with the little trails to Marina Del Rey. Yeah, I was determined.

[Elena Passarello]

Wow, this is like a fifth grader.

[Luke Burbank]

I mean, that's my question is as the parent, how are you feeling in that moment? Because, you know, obviously you're probably a little shaken up. Like this kid was gonna try to ride their bike across the US but also kind of proud.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

You know, kind of impressed at the ingenuity.

[Elena Passarello]

I bet Stevie Nicks would be really proud of this level of Rocketude from an 11 year old.

[Luke Burbank]

All right, let's listen to this response from Kim. The most trouble Kim ever got in. Also recorded backstage at the Alberta Rose.

[Elena Passarello]

I said the F word as a kid and my mom found out from the neighbor and soaped put soap in my mouth. And she said, don't ever do that again.

[Luke Burbank]

And I did it the next week.

[Elena Passarello]

And I got the same.

[Luke Burbank]

The same behavior.

[Elena Passarello]

This reminds me of in the very conservative south where I lived, my best friend's brother got his mouth washed off with soap for saying Bahoncus.

[Luke Burbank]

Is that even. Have we even confirmed that that's a bad word? I guess maybe it's bad word adjacent, which is enough depending on where you might be in the country. Well, anyway, thank you to Kim and Anna for telling us their stories of wayward youth here on our audience participation point. Thanks also to Ashley park for collecting up those answers. All right, our next guest has performed at Bumbershoot in Seattle, as well as the Bridgetown Comedy Festival in Portland, also the High Plains Comedy Festival, and literally hundreds of living rooms throughout the US And Canada. And in case you think that's just me being a little hyperbolic, you know, he has actually been making a living playing comedy shows in people's living rooms all over the country. There was even an article written about it in Vulture. He is a frequent guest also on the All Fantasy Everything podcast and has been highlighted by time, the AV Club, and maybe most notably, my personal TikTok algorithm. Zach Toscani joined us at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon. Take a listen.

[Zach Toscani]

Thanks for having me. How we doing, Portland? This is awesome. I had a tooth scare recently. Woke up with half of my lower jaw swollen, and that sucked. That was a today problem. You know, sometimes you get a tooth problem, you're like, ah, we'll wait. We'll wait a week, see what happens. This was like, oh, I'm going to see the dentist today. And I went in, and in Portland, there's a standup comedian who does dentistry. That's why I love this city. So I went in there and he does all the X rays. Then he looks at the X rays and he comes back, and I'm like, oh, here we go, about to find out what's going on. So I go, what the X rays say? And he goes, man, I don't know. And I went, oh, no. And he goes, yeah, man, teeth are weird. So I'm sitting there and he just says, my teeth are weird. And I was like, can you give me anything else? And he goes, okay, let me break it down to you like this. And I was like, oh, finally he's going to speak in layman terms. I was lost with all the doctor speak of I don't know, and teeth are weird. He goes, it's like your tooth rolled its ankle. And at that point, I was like, hey, man, if you're not a real dentist, it's fine. You can tell me. That was actually worse information. I can't go get a second opinion on that being the first opinion. Not gonna go see a second dentist. And they're like, what'd the first one say? And I'm. I'd rather not. I had a pretty weird childhood growing up. My family, my mom got remarried. We moved to the big island of Hawaii when I was in fourth grade. And if you're not familiar, Big island of Hawaii, it's the biggest island, but it's the least populated. It's not Oahu. It's not Maui. Honolulu's not there. And when we moved there, I was in fourth grade. But I was also Goth. And if you're not familiar, goths are not indigenous to Hawaii. We are an invasive species. You don't hear a lot about tropical gothicals. You know, I remember what I was wearing when I arrived to Hawaii. Like, wow, I live here. I was wearing Jinko jeans. If you have teenage kids, they're back. They're around. I had a white zombie T shirt. I had a puka shell necklace that I painted black. So I thought I could bridge the cultures. It's like, well, they give me shells, and I teach them how to be sad a lot, so I look like Billy Islandish. I had a bowl cut that I dyed jet black because I thought it would look cool and dark. But it just meant from behind. I'd get constantly confused for a Japanese tourist by other Japanese tourists. They'd be like, hey, the bus is leaving. Oh, my God. Oh, this is the demon child. But very shortly after I moved there, I hit a growth spurt. I grew about 3 inches over a summer, and suddenly, none of my goth clothes fit. You know, suddenly my JNCO jeans were like capris, kind of like how my pants are now. And I was like, mom, now I look crazy, so you need to take me to Hot Topic now. My mom was like, zach, we live on the big island of Hawaii. You are the hot topic. So she had to buy me a whole new wardrobe from a surf store, which I think we can all agree it's a little bit different vibe than a goth kid. Surf kids, they love the earth. They want to be here. You know, they're like, let me ride these waves. I want it to be underneath them, you know? So my mom bought me board shorts and aloha T shirts. And she was like, that's your new wardrobe. And I was like, you have screwed me, woman. I can't be a goth kid wearing board shorts and Hawaiian T shirts. I tried. I went to school for one day, and my friends were like, whoa, you can't do that. You're wearing an aloha T shirt. You can't do that if you're goth. And I'm like, well, this one just means goodbye. If you look closely, all the flowers are dying, all the ships are crashing into the rocks. I got another one inside. It's just sea turtles and plastic straws. Sorry. I knew I was the only goth kid because I was the only one in ukulele class trying to play Freak on a Leash by Korn. Got a Korn fan in the audience? I like that. I tried to start a goth ukulele band when I lived there. We were called Laid to Rest. I won't apologize. I look back fondly on being a goth kid in Hawaii because I must have ruined a lot of people's vacations just being in the background of a photo, you know, pre cell phone time. So you didn't even know what kind of vacation photos you had until weeks later. You're like, look at my beautiful family on the. What the hell is that? Just me wearing all black, wearing Doc Martens, laced up on a beach, listening to Papa Roach. That was my favorite band. The big island of Hawaii has 11 of the possible 13 Earth climates, and my favorite band was Papa Roach. Just be on the beach, like, cut my life into pieces. This beach is a resort, But I'll remember. I don't know if anyone here is a recovering goth, but I remember the day where I put down my sword, you know, stop being goth. It was a very. I remember it. I can remember that very instant. It was when I tasted mango for the first time. I had one slice of Hawaiian mango, and I was like, God is good. You guys have been excellent. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Luke Burbank]

Zach Toscani right here on Livewire. That was Zach Toscani recorded live at the Alberto Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon. All right, this is Livewire. We have to take a very quick break, but don't go anywhere. When we return, we are going to get some music from Portland's own Yrl Thomas and the Pain. We promise it's not as scary as it sounds. Stay with us. This is Livewire. Welcome back to Livewire from prx. I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. All right, we have made it to one of my very favorite parts of the show. I know this creates a certain amount of stress for you, Elena, because you are a. You are a high achiever. Know that you like to do well on tests. And this is where we test you about the location of a radio station in America that's playing Livewire. We call it Station Location Identification Examination. Are you ready to play?

[Elena Passarello]

Yes, I'm ready.

[Luke Burbank]

This city is home to the what's called the skyscraper on the Prairie. It's a 21 story art deco tower. It is the tallest building in the state. It's also the second tallest state capitol building in the country. The whole United States is The second tallest state capitol building.

[Elena Passarello]

It's a state capitol on the prairie. So it's either Pierre or Bismarck.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, my goodness. It's amazing to watch your mind work. Yes. You now have a 5050 chance.

[Elena Passarello]

Let's go with Because I love French things. Pierre, South Dakota.

[Luke Burbank]

That is so close.

[Elena Passarello]

It's. It's Bismarck.

[Luke Burbank]

It's Bismarck, North Dakota, where we're on the radio on KCND there in Bismarck. Shout out to everybody listening there in North Dakota. Congratulations, Elena. Another success for you. Playing station location, sort of.

[Elena Passarello]

With a great assist by Luke Burbank.

[Luke Burbank]

This is Livewire. Okay, before we get to our musical guest this week, a little preview of what we are doing next week on the show. We are going to be hanging out with longtime friend of the program, Hurry Kondabalu. Of course, you know Hurry. He's a comedian and writer, panelist on Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me. And now he's co hosting a new podcast. It's called Health Stuff, where he learns a lot about health, something that he didn't know a lot about before he started co hosting that show. We're gonna test Hari's medical knowledge and see if we could trust him in an emergency. We're also then gonna talk with our friend, the writer Lindy west and her actual childhood best friend, Megan Hatcher Mays. They've got a great podcast of their own. It's called Text Me Back. And we are gonna be putting them to the test to see how well they really know each other. Then we've got some music from John Craigie, amazing singer, songwriter. That is all the plan for next week's episode of Livewire. So do tune in for that. All right, this week on Livewire, our musical guest. Let me tell you this guy's story. He was primarily making his living as a repairman at the Portland shipyard about 20 years ago. And way before that, he had had this whole life as a singer. He was the lead of this RB vocal group called the Montereys. And they actually had some hits. They had a song called Pain Is the Name of youf Game and Can youn Dig It. But after a while, he kind of decided to hang it up as a professional musician. He figured, I'll just do this on my spare time, kind of as a hobby. And then one day in 2013, he was at like a jam session and this local drummer got named Scott McGee showed up and they decided to form a band. And since then, they have toured all over the world. They've released three albums. This is not Bad for a guy who decided he was done with professional music. We are very glad that that plan failed miserably. This is YRL Thomas and the Pain, who joined us for the 20th anniversary show, 20th anniversary of Livewire, by the way, if you can believe that, at Revolution hall in Portland, Oregon. Take a listen to this.

[Yrl Thomas]

How you doing.

[Luke Burbank]

My baby?

[Yrl Thomas]

People say I'm crazy to tell you this But I love you. And how can I resist saying it's true? I really love you, I really do. Can't you see how good you make me feel? It's because what you give it's so real. I gotta say I love you. Gotta say I love you. I love you Now I would never stand to see you sad. Cause I love you.

[Zach Toscani]

Oh.

[Yrl Thomas]

No, no, no, no, no, no. I could never do you that. Cause I love you, I really do. Can't you see just how good you make me feel? It's because what you give to me Love, it's so real. I really do.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Stay.

[Luke Burbank]

That's with love.

[Yrl Thomas]

Can't see just how good you make me feel. It's because what you give Love is.

[Luke Burbank]

So real.

[Yrl Thomas]

In my soul. How I want a sad odor in the. Over and over again I, I, I Over and over and over again I love you. Oh, I love you. Every word is true. Gotta say Gotta say I love.

[Luke Burbank]

That was Ural Thomas and the Pain right here on Livewire performing the song Gotta say I Love youe. That's from their 2018 album the Right Time. All right, that's going to do it for this week's episode of Livewire. A huge thanks to our guests Carrie Farrell, Zach Toscani and Eurl Thomas and the Pain.

[Elena Passarello]

Laura Haddon is our executive producer. Heather D. Michelle is our executive director, and our producer and editor is Melanie Sevchenko. Our technical director is Eben Hoffer. Hazik bin Ahmad Farid is our assistant editor, and our house sound is by Dneil Blake Ashley. Ashley park is our production fellow.

[Luke Burbank]

Valentine Keck is our operations manager. Andrea Castro Martinez is our marketing associate, and Ezra Veenstra runs our front of house. Our house band is Sam Pinkerton, Ethan Fox, Tucker, Eyal Alves, and A. Walker Spring, who also composes our music. This episode was mixed by Eben Hoffer and Hazik bin Ahmad Farid.

[Elena Passarello]

Additional funding provided by the Marie Lamprum Charitable Foundation. Livewire was created by Robin Tenenbaum and Kate Sokolov. This week we'd like to thank member Naomi Nussbaum of Portland, Oregon.

[Luke Burbank]

For more information about our show or how you can listen to our podcast. Head on over to livewireradio.org I'm Luke Burbank for Elena Passarello and the whole Livewire team. Thank you for listening and we will see you next week. Hey, if you appreciate the work that Livewire is doing to amplify riveting and unexpected voices to a national audience, and I gotta tell you, it's a big audience these days, please, please, please consider offering some monthly support by becoming a member of our League of Extraordinary Listeners. Here's how it works. Membership starts at just five bucks a month and there are great perks at every level, including a special shout out on the broadcast. Impress your friends by being shouted out on Livewire. It means the world to us and really does make it possible for us to do the show. So please, if you can help, support us by visiting livewireradio.org Memberships.

[Carrie Farrell]

From prx.