Saeed Jones, Silvia Moreno-Garcia, and The Lowest Pair (REBROADCAST)

Summary

Live Wire with Luke Burbank – Episode: Saeed Jones, Silvia Moreno-Garcia, and The Lowest Pair (Rebroadcast) Release Date: June 27, 2025

Hosted by Luke Burbank on PRX, "Live Wire with Luke Burbank" offers an eclectic mix of conversations with artists, writers, musicians, and cultural commentators. In this rebroadcast episode, listeners engage with poet Saeed Jones and bestselling novelist Silvia Moreno-Garcia, complemented by a live performance from the American folk band The Lowest Pair.

---

1. Opening Segment: Best News of the Week

Timestamp: [02:17]

Elena Passarello kicks off the episode by sharing heartwarming stories from listeners. Notably, Juliana Allen, a two-year-old from Panama City, Florida, developed an adorable bond with a white tree frog named George. This unique pet-owner relationship exemplifies pure, joyful companionship, highlighting how even unconventional pets can enrich our lives.

Elena Passarello:
"The unlikely friendship of Juliana Allen and George the tree frog. That's the best news that I saw this week."
[08:18]

---

2. Poet Saeed Jones on "Alive at the End of the World"

Timestamp: [09:12]

Saeed Jones returns to the show to discuss his latest poetry collection, Alive at the End of the World. The collection delves into themes of grief, community, and the endurance of joy amidst adversity. Jones reflects on the profound impact of his mother's passing and the broader societal issues affecting Black women.

Key Discussions:

• Grief and the Afterlife of Loss:
  Jones explores how grief persists beyond the loss, framing it as an ongoing relationship rather than an endpoint.

  Saeed Jones:
  "It's the beginning of a new phase in your relationship with who you miss."
  [12:26]

• Impact of Capitalism on Emotional Expression:
  He critiques the capitalist ethos that discourages prolonged emotional processing, especially for marginalized groups.

  Saeed Jones:
  "Grief, depression, gender journeys... is deeply inconvenient for capitalism."
  [15:11]

• Intersectionality and Human Experience:
  Jones emphasizes the interconnectedness of grief and queerness as deeply humanizing experiences.

  Saeed Jones:
  "Grieving and being queer... are two of the most humanizing experiences of my life."
  [16:48]

Notable Quote:
"You don't get to decide when an experience is done with you."
[15:11]

Jones also shares a poignant poem from his collection, highlighting his lyrical prowess and emotional depth.

---

3. Silvia Moreno-Garcia on "The Daughter of Dr. Moreau"

Timestamp: [29:57]

Bestselling novelist Silvia Moreno-Garcia discusses her reimagined take on H.G. Wells' classic, The Island of Dr. Moreau, titled The Daughter of Dr. Moreau. Set in late 1800s Yucatan amidst a civil war, her novel infuses historical and feminist perspectives into the narrative.

Key Discussions:

• Reimagining Classic Literature:
  Moreno-Garcia moves away from the original's ambiguous setting to a richly detailed historical context, integrating Mexican characters and socio-political dynamics.

  Silvia Moreno-Garcia:
  "It's set in Yucatan... a completely different context because the original takes place in an unnamed island."
  [33:39]

• Influence of Childhood Experiences:
  Growing up watching horror movies, Moreno-Garcia was labeled a witch by classmates, an experience that shaped her resilience and creative voice.

  Silvia Moreno-Garcia:
  "My classmates said that I was a witch. That was like it saved me from a lot of beatings."
  [38:49]

• Diversity in Genre:
  She advocates for Latin American authors to explore a variety of genres beyond traditional pigeonholing, emphasizing untapped talent and diverse storytelling.

  Silvia Moreno-Garcia:
  "I hope that people realize that Latin American authors... can do more than one type of writing."
  [40:07]

Notable Quote:
"It is a bit surprising... when you're writing 20 poems, 30 poems, it is a bit surprising. And I think I had a lot more clearly to unpack."
[10:03]

Moreno-Garcia also shares anecdotes about historical figures like Maya Angelou and Billie Holiday, intertwining personal insights with literary analysis.

---

4. Musical Interlude: The Lowest Pair

Timestamp: [45:21]

The American folk band The Lowest Pair performs "Pear Tree" live at the Alberta Rose Theater. Known for their evocative lyrics and harmonious melodies, their performance adds a soulful dimension to the episode.

Excerpt from "Pear Tree":
"Till my body's laying low, cold in the ground
And even yet still I'd be craving you..."
[46:18]

---

5. Listener Engagement: Childhood Interests

Timestamp: [26:24]

The hosts and guests share amusing and unique childhood interests submitted by listeners:

• Laura's Obsession with "The First Wives Club":
  "I somehow convinced my friends to do the dance... at my middle school talent show."
  [26:32]

• Wendell's Love for At-Home Workout Videos:
  "When I was a kid, Wendell was obsessed with at-home workout videos."
  [27:05]

• Ty's Fascination with Cleaning:
  "I was obsessed with cleaning. I used to beg my mom to let me mop the floors."
  [28:15]

These anecdotes highlight the diverse and sometimes quirky interests that shape individual identities from a young age.

---

6. Upcoming Attractions and Closing Remarks

Timestamp: [34:05]

Before concluding, the hosts preview next week's episode featuring travel writer Rick Steves and a reading from Samoan poet William Ntupu Giles. Additionally, they highlight the Lullaby Project, which bridges professional musicians with parents experiencing homelessness to create heartfelt music.

Elena Passarello:
"Next week's episode... Andrew, you just want to hear Rick's never have I ever travel anecdotes."
[44:05]

---

Final Thoughts:
This episode of "Live Wire with Luke Burbank" masterfully intertwines profound literary discussions with personal storytelling and engaging musical performances. Saeed Jones and Silvia Moreno-Garcia offer deep dives into their creative processes and personal experiences, enriched by the dynamic performances of The Lowest Pair. Listener interactions add a relatable and light-hearted touch, making this episode both enlightening and heartwarming for new and returning audiences alike.

---

Available Now:

• Alive at the End of the World by Saeed Jones
• The Daughter of Dr. Moreau by Silvia Moreno-Garcia
• Horse Camp by The Lowest Pair

Listen to the full episode on PRX or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Luke Burbank]

Hey there.

[Elena Passarello]

Welcome to Livewire. I'm your host, Luke Burbank. This week on the show, we're gonna hear from poet, writer, podcaster and general friend of the program, Said Jones about his latest poetry collection, Alive at the End of the World. The poems in the book feature some beloved historical figures like Maya Angelou and Billie Holiday and also some people from Saeed's own life. Then we're going to talk to best selling novelist Said Sylvia Moreno Garcia about her book, the daughter of Dr. Moreau. The library Journal called it historical science fiction at its best. We're going to find out what it was like for Sylvia growing up as a kid who was allowed to watch horror movies when she was like 5 years old and then how when she was a teenager, her classmates thought she was a witch and how that could, you know, impact your writing style, I guess. And then we're going to get some music from the American folk band the Lowest Pair. It's going to be a great show. It all gets started right after this.

[Luke Burbank]

Livewire is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally irresponsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. This episode of Livewire was originally recorded in February of 2023. We hope you like it. Now let's get to the show from prx.

[Saeed Jones]

It's Livewire.

[Luke Burbank]

This week.

[Saeed Jones]

Poet Saeed Jones.

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

I like to get right to it. You know, the secret is make straight white men nervous from the jump. Yeah, just nip it at the bud, honey.

[Saeed Jones]

Author Sylvia Moreno Garcia.

[Lowest Pair]

I would say I was not lonely, I was lonesome and I kind of like that and like living in my interior world. That's probably why I became a writer.

[Saeed Jones]

With music from the Lowest pair and our fabulous house band, I'm your announcer, Elena Passarello. And now the host of Livewire, Luke Burbank.

[Elena Passarello]

Hey, thank you so much, Elena Passarello. Thanks to everyone tuning in from all over the country, including beautiful Billings, Montana. We have a really interesting and fun show in store for everyone this week. One of the folks we're talking to, Silvia Moreno Garcia. She grew up in a household where she was allowed to watch like horror movies when she was a little kid. We wanted to find out from our audience. We asked them to tell us about something they were into as a kid that no other kid liked. So we're Going to hear those responses coming up in a few minutes. First, though, of course, we got to kick things off with the best news we heard all week. This is our little reminder at the top of the show. There is still some good news happening out there in the world. Elena, what's the best news that you heard this week?

[Saeed Jones]

Okay, so I'm going a little rogue this week. You know, I've been traveling a bit for the past couple weeks.

[Elena Passarello]

I've been following it on Instagram. You've been covering a range of experiences in this great country.

[Saeed Jones]

Yes. Multiple climate zones. And I was in the desert in Albuquerque, New Mexico, where a dear friend of mine teaches at an amazing school. And I know we're on in Albuquerque, and I just. The news of the week is that the kids are all right because this school, The Albuquerque Academy's 6th and 7th grade opera club, put on a show. I have a program from it. It's called off the Rails. They wrote it themselves. There were about 75 kids in it. It seemed like they wrote it themselves. They wrote all the lyrics. There was an amazing teacher there who helped arrange all the songs into an opera. They thought about all the big principles of opera, you know, like epic characters. And these are, you know, like 12 and 13 year old students. And they did a lot of, like, cool, like, found costumes. And. And it was every single word came from the minds of these amazing young performers. And let me tell you, this play, which was about the struggles of women over time, had everything. There was a pigeon lady and a pyromaniac who were like, secretly, they were in love, but they were trying to work through each other's problems. There was a strong man named Big Hunk who was dealing with toxic masculinity and he couldn't stop crying and everybody had to. He wasn't allowed to cry because he was a strongman. But strongman Big Hunk was played by this amazing young actress who's. And her mustache kept falling off. And she just handled it with all of this, like, joy and aplomb. There was a tap dancing 1950s house husband who was struggling with the, like, oppression of the time, singing and dancing and a million costume changes. And I, David, you know, who was a playwright and a screenwriter, my husband, he and I had the Time of Our Lives is literally the best play that I have seen in years. So shout out to Albuquerque Academy for Off the Rails. Coming soon to a Broadway stage near you.

[Elena Passarello]

I would go to more opera if it dealt more with like, toxic masculinity and not like I don't know, Bluebeard's Castle, where it's just like, I got this big castle and I really don't want you to go into any of those rooms because there's some not great stuff. And now we're gonna sing about that for about 3.5 hours.

[Saeed Jones]

So much of opera is about toxic masculinity and the oppression of women, now that I think about it. So this is a real, a real nice compliment to that trad.

[Elena Passarello]

Like Wagner never mentioned Snapchat once. No, that's why it's not relatable to me.

[Saeed Jones]

Yeah. And those Greeks. I mean, good lord, those Greek operas.

[Elena Passarello]

Speaking of kids doing the darndest things, my best news story is also about a kid doing something pretty cute. Two year old Juliana Allen of Panama City, Florida, took a visit to a pet store with her mom a few months ago and happened to see a two year old white tree frog named George. I don't know if it was named George in the store or if Juliana gave George that name, but Juliana, 2 years old, sees this frog and says, mom, please can we get this frog? And she basically talks the mom into it, even though they've already got a dog and a cat. But the mom does not have a heart of stone. She says, okay, we'll get the frog. By the way, this frog had been given up by its previous owners, raising the question, is it that hard to take care of a frog?

[Saeed Jones]

Yeah. What?

[Elena Passarello]

Who rehomes a frog? Anyway, this has actually turned out well because Juliana and George have bonded in a way that is just like something out of a Disney movie or something. The frog perches happily on Juliana's shoulder as she watches TV and eats breakfasts, or when she sits in her stroller, he rides around with her around the house. She's taken him to her grandmother's parents to show him off. I don't know if you'll be able to see this over the connection, but this is a photograph, Elena, I'm showing you of Juliana taking George's pulse with her toy stethoscope every morning when she gets up. According to her mom, I mean, Juliana is still very young and has fairly limited language. She says basically to her mom every morning she wakes up and the first thing she says is, baby frog. And then I just have to bring her George. Now, this is a thing too, because you always wonder what's going on really in the mind of an animal and a pet. You know, we love them a lot. We think like my cat here, Bubbles. I think that I'm making her life better when I, like, pick her up and play her like a banjo on her stomach. I mean, does she enjoy that? Probably not, but we just kind of never know. The thing about tree frogs that's interesting is they actually turn a certain color when they are stressed or threatened. So these particular tree frogs are called white tree frogs. They turn dark brown, but when Juliana is carrying George around, he is green and turquoise, which are relaxed colors for a white tree frog. All pets should have some kind of fur color change to tell us if they're liking what's going on or not.

[Saeed Jones]

All pets should be mood rings. That's exactly right.

[Luke Burbank]

You're right.

[Elena Passarello]

Maybe that's what I need. Not a cat. I just need the mood ring.

[Saeed Jones]

I just need a mood ring. You could take its temperature with a little toy stethoscope.

[Elena Passarello]

The unlikely friendship of Juliana Allen and George the tree frog. That's the best news that I saw this week. All right, let's invite our first guest on over to the show. His work has appeared in the New York Times, the New Yorker, and gq. His stunning memoir, how we Fight for our Lives, was the recipient of the 2019 Kirkus Prize for nonfiction. US poet laureate Ada Limone calls his latest collection, Alive at the End of the World, a serious argument for community and the rebellion of joy. Take a listen to Saeed Jones right here on Livewire. This was from a show we recorded in partnership with the Portland Book Festival.

[Luke Burbank]

Saeed, welcome back to the show.

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

Hi, honey.

[Elena Passarello]

How are you? So good to see you.

[Luke Burbank]

The last time we talked, you were at your home in Columbus, and you had just gotten a dog named Cesar.

[Elena Passarello]

Yes.

[Luke Burbank]

And it was during the pandemic, and we were literally looking for anyone we could talk to, and we saw on, like, I don't know, the Internet that you had gotten a dog. And we said, that sounds like 20 minutes of radio. Yeah.

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

Month one, month one of lockdown. You're like, do you have time? Like, yes, I have time.

[Saeed Jones]

Are you kidding me?

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

When do you need me? What do we want to talk? We talk about anything. Sure. Dog. Okay, I'll bring the dog. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Yes.

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

It was great.

[Luke Burbank]

Thank you for being generous with your time. Now, your new book, Alive at the End of the World, you have a line in it where you say, did I just trick myself into writing another memoir?

[Elena Passarello]

Right.

[Luke Burbank]

We had you on for how we Fight for our Lives. Your memoir about your life and your mother and everything. Is this book of poetry something where you also accidentally wrote another memoir?

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

I think I did trick myself Yeah, I think so. I mean, I write poetry collections one poem at a time. And so I'm just kind of focused on these very, to me, minor kind of moments of deep humanity. But yeah, when you begin to step back and you're like 20 poems, 30 poems and everything, it is a bit surprising. And I think I had a lot more clearly to unpack.

[Luke Burbank]

Sure. Yeah. I mean, in reading this book, it really struck me as a person who was working through a lot of pain. Including the section where you're annoyed at an audience member who asks you basically the question I just asked you.

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

I like to get right to it. You know, the secret is make straight white men nervous from the jump. Yeah, just nip it at the bud, honey.

[Luke Burbank]

Uh huh.

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

Getting stressed. Fix your posture. I can't even remember what we were talking about. I was just so excited to get to where.

[Luke Burbank]

I mean, where's this book?

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

I saw an opening.

[Luke Burbank]

I guess my real question is, was it cathartic for you to write about these things in the book or was it re traumatizing?

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

It was not re traumatizing. I don't find writing, I don't know. I mean, I've never found it to be traumatized. I don't know. I mean, it's too. It's too much of a craft, too much joy. It's our engine. So how.

[Luke Burbank]

Special thanks to our sponsor, Up Up Books, a Portland bookshop specializing in diverse authors, local writers and independent presses. They're located across from Revolution hall in the Buckman neighborhood and they offer a space for book clubs, workshops and events. Check out their website and grab a [e-mail] hey, welcome back to Livewire here at the Portland Book Festival. Coming to you from the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon. This week we are talking to Saeed Jones about his latest collection of poetry. It's called Alive at the End of the World. Can we hear a poem from the book?

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

Sure, sure. Yeah. So I guess for a little, in addition to. Yeah, you're right. Tricking myself into writing another memoir. My mother, Carol Sweet Jones, died of heart disease just over a decade ago. And so it was like right in the middle of. Well, last year was the 10 year anniversary of her passing. Right. So in the depths of, of this pandemic, you know, and you know, all the detail, y' all were there, we are there. Right. I was thinking about that because of course when you're grieving, I mean, it is an ongoing relationship. It's not the end. It's the beginning of a new phase. In your relationship with who you miss, right? And, you know, you often think, like, I wish they were here. God, I wish I could tell them, like, how much fun I had or whatever. But the thing is, in the middle of the pandemic, I was like, okay, well, your mother died of heart disease, which disproportionately kills black women in this country. It's like, if it's not like giving birth in this country, it's heart disease for black women. Statistically, it's horrifying. And she worked in an airport in Atlanta in the state of Georgia. So I was like, you sure you want to bring her back for this? You know, So I think with this book, I was thinking so much about the afterlife of grief. That's what I've come to call it. And this poem's about that afterlife vibe. A stranger. I wonder if my dead mother still thinks of me. I know I don't know her new name. I don't know her, not now. I don't know if her is the word burning in a stranger's mind. When he sees my dead mother walking down the street in her bright black.

[Elena Passarello]

Dress.

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

I wonder if he inhales the cigarette smoke that will eventually kill him and thinks, I wish I knew a woman who was both the light and every shadow the light pierces. I wonder if a passing glance at my dead mother is enough to make a poet out of anyone. I wonder if I'm the song she hums as she waits for the light to change. Thank you. Thank you.

[Luke Burbank]

Saeed Jones, reading from Alive at the End of the World. You have a line. It's actually kind of in the sort of afternotes of this book that just absolutely floored me. You wrote you don't get to decide when an experience is done with you. It's true. That's intense.

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

Learn it now. I also heard a lot of nods of. But it's true, right? I mean, I think my theory is it has something to do with capitalism. Honestly, the ethos of American capitalism is that, move on, get up, because you got to get back to work, right? Grief, depression, gender journeys, you know, all of these, you know, candor, intelligence, you know, is deeply inconvenient for capitalism, right? You know, so we really have this ethos, right, built into us. Like, move on, pick it up. And so I think, yeah, it's like, you know, you feel the pressure. No one has to say it to you, right? I think America is really good at, like, teaching us how to bully ourselves, you know? But no, it's not up to you, you know, when you get to stop crying and then that manifests in the poem. It's like, it's not up to me when I get to stop crying. Right. Like, yeah, and I think that's true. I mean, you. All kinds of relationships, breakups, even jobs, you know, I've had an experience where I had a job and I left years later. I was, like, still mad at a boss I hadn't spoken to in you. You know what I mean? And so I wanted to. I think grief, like, queerness, has opened me up to understanding so much of queer, so many aspects of humanity. It's the most, you know, grieving and being queer, I think, are two of the most humanizing experiences of my life. And so, yeah, I found power in acknowledging that perhaps I'm still enthralled to a dynamic that I would very much like to move on from or claim a sense of power in relation to. But, like, maybe. Maybe I'm less in control than I thought, which is like, did I just trick myself? Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

There is a poem in this book with the title, performing as Ms. Calypso, Maya Angelou dances whenever she forgets the lyrics, which Billie Holiday, seated in the audience, finds annoying. Is any part of that a real thing that happens?

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

Yes. Yes. Maya Angelou, Dr. Maya Angelou wrote it. I can't remember the title, but it's in one of her memoirs. One of her memoirs. She wrote about it several decades later. But, yeah, early in. Maya Angelou is just, like, a fascinating figure. And I tell people, I think I appear in the book A Lot of Ghosts, and then also a lot of black kind of cultural icons. Little Richard, Diane Carroll, Toni Morrison, Paul Mooney. Love the Paul Mooney. But Maya, I tell people, is, I think, arguably the happiest person in the poem because she's just like, we'll do it. At that point in her life, she was performing under the stage name Miss Calypso in the Bay Area. Not a very good singer, but a great dancer. She was always an incredible dancer. And so literally, when she would forget the lyrics, she. And I mean, she was. I mean, look at pictures from Maya. I mean, I think Maya was beautiful her whole life, but. Whoa, whoa. And at this point in her life, like, she'd be performing forget the lyrics. And she'd just go, I appear to have forgotten the lyrics. And then, like, she would then do a dance kind of till she got back to, you know, it's obvious, obviously, the men in the. You can forget the lyrics all you want. And then so then, you know, decades later, and, you know, Maya Angelou wrote, like, a series of memoirs. You know, she lives so many lives, which is another interesting, you know, parallel with the book. Billie Holiday turns out to be in the audience and comes to talk to her in the green room. And I think they saw each other, like, she visited at her home later and did not get along. They did not like each other. Maya Angelou is really homophobic because of rumors about Billie Holiday's bisexuality. And she says, I mean, very transparent in her own writing. I was like, I just didn't think very highly of her. But Billie Holiday, imagine, I mean, you know, I think there's a direct line from Billie Holiday to, like, maybe the caliber of Whitney Houston. So imagine you're on stage just getting along, being your little, you know, you think it's cute, and you look out, and then there's like, there is the artist of the form that you are on stage making a joke of in front of her. And so in the green room, this is what Maya Angelou said. Billie Holiday told her, you're going to be famous, but it won't be for singing.

[Luke Burbank]

Wow.

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

That was the end. There's one album, one music album in all of Maya Angelou's life. She recorded. It was Ms. Calypso, that was it a rap. So I'm like, I guess Billie Holiday was right. And then Billie Holiday died a few years later. It's incredible.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah.

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

What are the odds?

[Luke Burbank]

Well, you mentioned Whitney Houston, and you have a poem about Diane Carroll in a Beverly Hills hotel and a bathroom, which to me, very much seemed like it's also a poem about Whitney Houston.

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

That's a parallel because of the circumstances around her passing and also her life. I mean, are you seeing a connection between all of the women that you're writing about in this book, including your mother?

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

Yeah. I mean, you know, I think you see me on the page examine and perform my distress, my peril, like, my sense of, like, oh, what's going on? And everything like that. And I think it's always important, you know, I mean, I think a great deal about intersectionality and everything like that and what's going on in our country. But as much as I'm freaked out, it's like, you know who it's really hard for in this country? It's like, black women. Black trans women, you know, So I think it's important, you know, even as I'm, like, owning. Y' all are freaking me out, you know, you're stressing Out. Saeed, I also think it's important for me to think, like, well, what else? Like, who else is, you know, going through this? And in thinking about my mom's experiences and certainly the women who appear in the book, I'm like, yeah. It's like, yeah. Saeed, you have a certain privilege to speak out about your age, your rage and your distress. It's very dangerous for black women to be as vocal, you know, I mean, you know, black woman says, the sky is blue, and you see the pushback, you see the disrespect.

[Luke Burbank]

You note at the end of the book. Certain poems being nonfiction.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

Which presumes the existence of fictional poems. And I'm trying to understand the difference, because aren't all poems nonfiction on some level? Because it's an experience. It's a feeling. Like, what's the difference between a nonfiction poem and a fiction poem for you?

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

I've written poems and certainly read poems to other people that could be a short story, you know, in a different, I mean, Persona, you know? You know, Billie Holiday, Maya Angelou. I mean, that's not. I mean, it's based on something in truth, but I'm taking on Maya Angelou as a character. You know, the dynamic, the capital T. Truth may be present, but is it accurate, factual? No. So I liked trying to identify for the reader these specific moments. Like, this is a nonfiction poem where essentially, like, looking at poetry's potential to kind of function as a personal essay is the.

[Luke Burbank]

Would you consider the Luther Vandross poem, nonfiction or fiction?

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

Ooh, that's a good. I mean, it's definitely closer to nonfiction. I mean, it's. Yeah, I think it is nonfiction in that I tried to. Every detail in the poem is. Yeah. Something he went through in his life. Pretty specific. Like, he would like in. If you read an excellent biography of his by Craig Seymour. And they were pretty close. And what. Like, Luther never used pronouns when talking about his relation. Like, he was so closeted. He was. He was. He was very strategic. So he. He wouldn't say. He would just say, I'm in love. I'm in love. And it's so great. He wouldn't. He was very careful, you know?

[Luke Burbank]

Well, you write that this poem that is about Luther Vandross is. You made it intentionally difficult to read aloud. Yes. As a reference to how Luther Vandross would, like, collaborate.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah.

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

Luther was a bitch. It was great. You know, I get it. I mean, who wouldn't be, you know, under those. You know, the class is a very stressful place. To be. Turns out it makes you not so nice. But, yeah, he was also, you know, genius, rigorous. You know the Wiz. The Wiz. Yeah, we have the. Okay, thank you.

[Elena Passarello]

All right. It was.

[Luke Burbank]

It was on national television.

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

Portland black people know the Wiz. Okay.

[Luke Burbank]

It was on national television when there was, like, three channels.

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

You got it. Luther VanJoss wrote two songs for it when he was a teenager.

[Luke Burbank]

What?

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

Mm. That was the range of his talent, I think. Honestly, just weight and sexuality would have totally changed the dynamics of his career anyway, so he was really rigorous in the studio, and he gets to the point, at his peak, he's consistently collaborating with people like Aretha Franklin. And if even Aretha, while singing, recording, would mispronounce, he would stop.

[Luke Burbank]

I assumed you were referencing, like, a whole argument. I thought you just meant, like, a random others. I didn't realize Aretha Franklin.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

The quote is. I mean, he. Cause it happens. And they were. I mean, they would fuss and break up, and they were very much like frenemies. It was really interesting. They made up towards the end of his life, which I think was good. What did he say? He interrupted her and she said, who has the most number one albums? Luther. And he said, how long has it been since your last one? When I tell you, like, studying history and going into this to, like, keep. I was like, woo. I'm alive. A reason to live for another day. Oh, my gosh.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, we are very glad to have you here with us and glad to have this piece of work. It's Alive at the End of the World by Saeed Jones. Saeed, thank you so much.

[Elena Passarello]

That was Said Jones right here on Livewire as part of the Portland Book Festival. His poetry collection Alive at the End of the World is available now. You can also hear Said on the weekly podcast Vibe Check, which he co hosts with Sam Sanders and Zach Stafford.

[Saeed Jones]

I love that podcast.

[Elena Passarello]

It is a delight.

[Saeed Jones]

It's the best. I feel like I've learned something, and I feel like I have three best friends. Oh, my God. Shout out to that podcast.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah, we had Sam on the show recently talking about it, and now I've become a regular listener to Vibe Check. So get it. As they say, wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, special thanks this episode to Christian Fulgham of Shoreline, Washington, and Sarah Doan of Portland, Oregon. Christian and Sarah are part of the Livewire member community, and they are generously supporting us with a donation each month. And that is a really big deal because without donations like that, we could not keep doing the show, which would be a tremendous bummer for all of us. So thank you, Sarah and Christian, for keeping Livewire going.

[Luke Burbank]

Livewire is brought to you by Powell's Books, a Portland institution since 1971. Powell's offers a selection of new and used books in stores and [e-mail].

[Elena Passarello]

This is Livewire, of course. Each week we ask our listeners a question. This week we asked them to tell us about something you were into as a kid that no other kid liked. Alaina, you've been collecting up those responses. What are you seeing?

[Sylvia Moreno Garcia]

Okay.

[Saeed Jones]

Occasionally a question inspires our executive producer to enter in or whose name is Laura, and I wonder.

[Elena Passarello]

Laura Haddon sighting.

[Saeed Jones]

I think this might be our Laura. There is no last name attached to this, but doesn't this sound like our girl to you? Laura says. I was strangely obsessed as a child with the First Wives Club. I somehow convinced my friends to do the dance from the end at my middle school talent show, and I'm pretty sure they never forgave me.

[Elena Passarello]

Wow. I love that. Because I'll be honest, that doesn't seem like the big demo for that movie was Middle Schoolers.

[Saeed Jones]

No, no, not at all.

[Elena Passarello]

What else are one of our listeners or possibly employees of the show reporting as something that they were into as a kid?

[Saeed Jones]

We don't work with anybody named Wendell, so I think Wendell is a listener who said that. As a kid, Wendell was obsessed with at home workout videos. And I feel like this is a dying breed, but I totally remember this. My mom had Jane Fonda work out Buns of Steel.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah, whatever, whatever. The latest, you know, VHS tape that was being pitched to change your life as it were.

[Saeed Jones]

Like sweating to the oldies with Richard Simmons or whatever.

[Elena Passarello]

You know, I met Richard Simmons once in person at a radio station that I was working at. And he was exactly how you would hope Richard Simmons would be. He smelled great. He had amazing hair. He sang me a song in the hallway of the radio station. This was not even for air. He was just Richard Simmons ing it up everywhere he went, just spreading joy and love.

[Saeed Jones]

Thank you for telling me this. I'd like to change my best news to that story that you just told me.

[Elena Passarello]

And then I dressed up as Richard Simmons for Halloween the next year. But then I carried the signed headshot I'd gotten from Richard Simmons so I could refer people to it. Like, this is who I'm trying to look like. What's something else that one of our listeners was into as a kid? That's a little bit maybe unusual.

[Saeed Jones]

Oh, talk about unusual, Ty says, I was obsessed with cleaning. I used to beg my mom to let me mop the floors, and then I would cry when I couldn't do it. What a dream child.

[Elena Passarello]

Oh, my gosh. I know. Gotta get me one. All I have is a Roomba that fights with the cat all day. I need a. I need a small human child who's got, like, you know, really, really tighty tendencies.

[Saeed Jones]

Does your Roomba cry when you don't let it attack your kitchen floor?

[Elena Passarello]

No. But I will tell you that the cat has learned how to turn on the Roomba when it wants to wake me up because there's a giant flat button on the top that turns green when you hit it. And if I will not emerge from my chambers in the morning and the cat wants me to, she will turn the Roomba on now so I could. I consider them to be in cahoots.

[Saeed Jones]

She's too smart.

[Elena Passarello]

I know, right? Hey, thanks to everyone who sent in responses to our listener question. Of course. We've got a question for next week's show, which we will reveal at the end of the today's program. So stick around for that. In the meantime, our next guest had, let's just say, a unique childhood. Her parents let her watch horror movies when she was like 5 and which led her to be declared a witch by some of her classmates. Now, it all turned out okay because these days she's the best selling novelist of many books. Her writing has been called a thing of wonder by the New York Times. She's written numerous critically acclaimed novels, including Mechanics Mexican Gothic. Library Journal describes her latest work, the daughter of Dr. Moreau, as historical science fiction at its best. Here is our conversation with Sylvia Moreno Garcia, recorded as part of the Portland Book Festival last year.

[Luke Burbank]

Hi, Sylvia. Welcome to the show.

[Lowest Pair]

Hi, thanks for having me.

[Luke Burbank]

Do you have a specific memory of when you first picked up the H.G. wells version of the island of Dr. Moreau, and did it make a big impression on you?

[Lowest Pair]

Yeah, I was a teenager and back in the old days in Mexico, we didn't have young adult fiction or children's fiction. We just had classical novels. So if you were a teenager, you read the Three Musketeers or Journey to the center of the Earth, that kind of stuff. So that was children's literature, and I picked it up at that point.

[Luke Burbank]

Really? Yes, that was what was available. It wasn't like scary to you or. I mean, some of this stuff you write. I think there's a. In the foreword, you sort of thank your mother for letting you see scary movies when you were a kid or something?

[Lowest Pair]

Yeah, my mother was a big scary movie fan. The first scary movie that I saw, I was five years old and she took me to see aliens.

[Luke Burbank]

Is that the one where the alien, like comes out of the person?

[Lowest Pair]

Well, it's the second one. So the alien is bigger. It's an alien queen.

[Saeed Jones]

Oh, that's when the alien comes out of its mouth.

[Lowest Pair]

Yes.

[Luke Burbank]

Laying all the eggs at the end?

[Lowest Pair]

Yes.

[Luke Burbank]

Do you, I mean, have.

[Elena Passarello]

As a 5 year old.

[Luke Burbank]

How do you interpret that information as a five year old child?

[Lowest Pair]

Well, the reason why we went to see aliens is because we were living from Baja California, from the north of Mexico. And the town that we were living in at the time the power went off in our neighborhood. And so there was no air conditioning and it was very warm in the summer. So my mother said, we're going to the one place in town that has air conditioning and that was the movie theater. But back then there were no multiplexes. It was a one single screen. Everybody went to see the same movie. And the movie that was playing that night was Aliens. So we got seats in the front row. That was what it was like. So my mother just said, there's gonna be a monster on the screen, but it's not real.

[Luke Burbank]

Do you think that that. I mean, maybe not that specific moment, but just that kind of relationship with things that can seem scary, Having access to that as a kid. Do you think that that has impacted your voice as a writer and the kind of things you go towards?

[Lowest Pair]

Yeah, I have a deep love for horror fiction. I've edited several horror fiction anthologies, magazines, all that kind of stuff. And I've written several horror stories. I really love it. It's one of the lesser genres where people think that it's the lesser genre, it's the dirty genre. Because when you say I like to read or write horror fiction, people go, why? You look very normal. Right.

[Luke Burbank]

They're thinking of the kind of lowest common denominator, you know, Friday the 13th or something. That's a. Where it's more just a slasher than the complex actual kind of literary characteristics that can exist.

[Lowest Pair]

Yes, of course. Although I do love kind of lowbrow fiction too. There's a kind of purity and a beauty in some of those texts. And I used to like reading horror comic books in Mexico when I was growing up. And they were very low, bro. It was. There was always something chasing a woman with big titties on the COVID It was a skeleton. Then the next issue was a vampire. And then I would have killed my.

[Luke Burbank]

Hands on some of those comics as a kid. Your book, the daughter of Dr. Moreau has been described as sort of a reimagining of the original with certainly a more feminist perspective. It's not a prequel, it's not a sequel. It is a reimagining. What does that mean in terms of the plot and kind of how close to the original you were versus using your own license?

[Lowest Pair]

It skews pretty far from the original. It just takes some of the ideas that are handled in the original and a couple of characters, but it kind of moves in its own direction. I don't like a lot of remakings where only one element changes. So, for example, with Disney, they do this a lot. They'll be like, oh, now it's Doombo. But it's like CGI Doombo. And I'm like, what do I care? I like the drawing of the elephant. There was nothing wrong with it.

[Luke Burbank]

I thought I was losing my mind. Or just maybe not in the demo for all the live action releases of these films, which seem to be the original film, but now it's just people instead of the cartoons. You wanted to do something more inventive with your take on Dr. Moreau.

[Lowest Pair]

Yes. I think women of a certain age know that the beast from Beauty and the Beast in the cartoon was hotter than the live action beast.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah.

[Lowest Pair]

Yes, yes, absolutely.

[Luke Burbank]

Okay, so you used the original book as a jumping off point or the original story. But then where do you. Without giving away too much of the plot, where do you kind of take it?

[Lowest Pair]

Well, it's set in Yucatan, which is the south of Mexico in the late 1800s. And what happens is that in that time period, there's a real sort of civil war going on in the peninsula. The west side is controlled by Mexican people, either of fully European descent or mixed indigenous and white descent. And then the eastern portion of the peninsula is controlled by Mayan people. And they are fighting with the west because they've been basically enslaved for a while. And after three, four centuries, it gets a little bit tiresome. And so they're in this civil war. And then in this little wedge on the side of the peninsula, there's British Honduras, and the British are there. And they are supporting the Maya, not because they're very nice, but they really feel that if they can get a free Maya state, they can have a protectorate. So everybody's kind of in this conflict, and. And that's when this story is taking place. So it's a completely different context because the original novella, the island of Dr. Moreau, takes place in an unnamed island in the middle of the ocean. Like a lot of 19th century books take place in the town of M. You don't know where M is, and you're like, oh. So the grounding really changes the story. And you've got Mexican characters and a different kind of look at the animal creatures and what Wells does. So I thought it was really fun. And, you know, I don't know if I don't think it's scary. Some people tell me, like, well, will I be terrified of this? And if not, I want my money back. And I'm like, man, that's a hard thing to promise. I mean, I saw aliens at five. Nothing terrifying.

[Luke Burbank]

I feel like your personal bar, Sylvia, is slightly elevated. This week we're coming to you as part of the Portland Book Festival here at the Alberta Rose Theatre in Portland, Oregon. We're talking about to Silvia Moreno Garcia. Her latest book is the daughter of Dr. Moreau. I think it's interesting that the main character, the daughter of Dr. Moreau, is Carlota, who is a very sheltered, sort of naive person because she's just lived in this one place and doesn't know a lot about her family history, her mom, things like that, which seems like the opposite of what your childhood was. Your parents were journalists. You moved around a lot like you were not. You saw aliens when you were five. Like you were not overly sheltered. How do you get inside the head of writing a character like Carlota that's very different from what your lived experience is?

[Lowest Pair]

Well, it's very fun precisely because it's a completely different lived experience. But I do have. Think we have some commonalities. I was an only child, so I would say I was not lonely, I was lonesome. And I kind of like that and like living in my interior world. That's probably why I became a writer. I used to walk around the house and talk to myself at some point. There were concerns about that situation.

[Elena Passarello]

Shortly.

[Luke Burbank]

After you saw the horror movie as a baby.

[Lowest Pair]

Yes. I was a creepy child to a lot of adults because I was a very smart child. I started reading from a very young age in both English and Spanish. There were a lot of books in my house, and my parents really emphasized art and philosophy and literature and movies as being key components of life. And so you would get this small child that is introduced at parties, and I would be like, well, I'm 8 years old and I'm saying things. Well, I was reading Shakespeare sonnets and I was considering that my favorite one is. And the adults are like, what is going on with this kid?

[Luke Burbank]

That's interesting because there's a scene at the beginning of the book where basically Carlota is doing that.

[Lowest Pair]

Yes.

[Luke Burbank]

Like her dad is showing her off. Is that basically pulled from your real life?

[Lowest Pair]

Yeah, my dad. My dad was very proud of me, as he called it, a very successful experiment.

[Luke Burbank]

Is this an autobiography?

[Lowest Pair]

No, he just. His philosophy of life was that if you feel. I guess if you fill a child with a lot of knowledge and information and freedom, they'll come out really well, as opposed to kind of repressing them in a traditional Catholic mode, that other kids in my neighborhood were being repressed. So as a result of that, when I was 12 or 13 years old in school, my classmates said that I was a Satanist.

[Luke Burbank]

Because you were not sufficiently Catholic to fit into the normal milieu.

[Lowest Pair]

Yes. I decided that I did not want to get a confirmation. I did not want to go through the full Catholicization process. And everybody else was getting their first communion and all that kind of stuff. And I said I didn't want to. And then I said that I really like horror novels. Like it and Stephen King and certain kind of music, Metallica and that kind of stuff. So as a result of that, I was branded a witch. I am not kidding. I am not kidding. Yeah, they said I was a witch.

[Luke Burbank]

Was that upsetting to you at that age, or did you feel like it was sort of good street cred?

[Lowest Pair]

Yeah, it was like it saved me from a lot of beatings.

[Luke Burbank]

What if they think that you're a literal witch?

[Lowest Pair]

Yes.

[Luke Burbank]

They're not going to mess with you.

[Elena Passarello]

Yes.

[Lowest Pair]

People don't bug you that much when they think you're a master of the dark arts.

[Luke Burbank]

I'm wondering if there's a takeaway that you're hoping that folks will have after reading the daughter of Dr. Moreau. I mean, it's a really compelling page turner. You just, as a reader, want to know what happens next. It's got a lot of really well described scenes and plot. But is there an overarching message that you really want to try to send out with the book?

[Lowest Pair]

I hope in general, that people realize that Latin American authors or authors of Latin American descent have sometimes been pigeonholed in a specific type of writing and that we can do more than one type of writing. And this is just one Mexican story with science fiction elements and historical elements. But there's a lot of other stories that maybe traditionally have not been. People have not been able to tell them because the market has been pretty resistant to them. And I had rejections from publishers at certain points in my career where people just said, we're not going to. Well, my favorite one was the person who said, your name is too long to go on a spine and it's too weird.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, my gosh.

[Lowest Pair]

And so that kind of stuff is, you know, there's all these potholes in the industry, and I hope that it just shows that there's many modes of writing that we can engage in and there's a lot of talent probably out there that's untapped and a lot of stories to tell.

[Luke Burbank]

Well, we as the readers are very happy that they fit your name on the spine of all these books. They're great. Sylvia Moreno Garcia, everyone, right here on Livewire. Thank you.

[Elena Passarello]

That was Sylvia Moreno Garcia here on Livewire as part of the Portland Book Festival. Her latest book, the daughter of Dr. Moreau, is available now. I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. We've got to take a quick break, but don't go anywhere because we will be right back with some incredible music from folk band the Lowest Pair. You're not going to want to miss it. Welcome back to Livewire from prx. I'm your host, Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. Are you ready for a little station location identification examination?

[Saeed Jones]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Elena Passarello]

All right, this is where I'm going to quiz Elena on a spot in the country where Livewire is on the radio. She's got to guess where I am talking about. This city is called the City beneath the Rim Rocks. The Rim Rocks, which are also known as the rims. They're 300, 800 foot sandstone formations. The other nickname for this city is the Magic City due to how fast it grew after a railroad was built there.

[Saeed Jones]

Okay, I'm feeling wild. Wild West. Wild west, yeah.

[Elena Passarello]

How about this? It was home to Martha Canary, AKA Calamity Jane.

[Saeed Jones]

Deadwood, South Dakota, based on the TV show More.

[Elena Passarello]

That was a great character on that show, by the way.

[Saeed Jones]

Oh, my favorite.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah, we're going More Montana, Boseman. It also starts with a B. You're getting closer.

[Saeed Jones]

Billings, Montana.

[Elena Passarello]

Absolutely. Billings, Montana, where we're on K E M C F M, AKA Yellowstone Public Radio, where we've just been added. So shout out to everyone out there in the Big sky state, listening in Billings.

[Luke Burbank]

Sometimes checking your email, let's be honest, can be a little stressful. But we want to change that over here at Livewire. We want to make Checking your email. More joyful with our weekly newsletter, which is only good news. That's all we do over here at the Livewire newsletter. We got sneak peeks and deep dives on upcoming events, details on where you can join us live, new episode drops, and even more than that, getting this drop of joy. It's super easy too. Head over to livewireradio.org and you click keep in touch. It takes like 30 seconds, 25 if you're speedy.

[Elena Passarello]

So help us help you have a.

[Luke Burbank]

Little more fun in your inbox with the latest from the Livewire newsletter.

[Elena Passarello]

This is Livewire.

[Luke Burbank]

Okay, before we get to our musical.

[Elena Passarello]

Guest, a little preview of what is.

[Luke Burbank]

Coming up on the program. Next week we are going to be chatting with the travel writing goat himself, Rick Steves. He has helped hundreds of thousands of Americans travel to Europe in ways that are fun and affordable with his TV show and his travel guides. His new book is the story of his time on the so called hippie trail. Back when he was just out of college, he was basically a part time piano teacher. He was heading from Istanbul to Kathmandu and it really sort of activated his love for for travel. We're also going to hear some of Rick's never have I ever travel anecdotes and believe me, they are good. He's Rick Steves, everybody. Then we're going to get a reading from William Ntupu Giles. He's a Samoan writer and poet from Honolulu who joined us for a special Livewire event in Seattle at the Hotel Crocodile. Then we're going to round the hour out with some music from this incredible project called the Lullaby Project. They bring together professional singer, songwriters and then parents who are experiencing homelessness. And the result is some of the most gorgeous music that you will hear performed by members of the Oregon Symphony. So you do not want to miss next week's episode of livewire. All right.

[Elena Passarello]

Our musical guests this week met on the banks of the Mississippi. They've been touring the US ever since, racking up over 500 shows across the country from Bellingham, Washington to Bangor, Maine. They've also released five albums of original work, including 2020's album A Perfect Plan, which no Depression magazine called A perfect album for the moment. Their latest album is called Horse Camp. It's available now. Take a listen to this. Some music from the Lowest Pair recorded live at the Alberta Rose Theater.

[Luke Burbank]

What song are we going to hear? We're going to do one off of our first record, okay. Called Pear Tree. All right. This is the Lowest Pair on Livewire.

[F]

Satisfy to Till my body's laying low cold in the ground and even yet still I'd be craving you Every atom, every cell, every oun and my love would still grow as the worms turned me to soil. And there within the dirt my love would wait to be bowed up by the roots and turned into a sweet fruit where I just hang around waiting to be ate. See, I would wait for you. He just asked me to. Till my body's laying low, cold in the ground and even yet still I be craving you Every atom, every cell, every oun. See, I'd be dangling and pining and I'd be supple and shiny And I'd be hanging low just to stay within your reach. Till one day you'd happen by? You'd hear my faint flaunt cry and you'd reach out and you'd pick me in need. Then I'd finally fill your lips again? You'd ask me how my time was spent And I'd say, girl, but you I'd treat you right. So let me nourish your wife Too easy, swallow soft feed me but break down and let our bodies reunite. See, I would wait for you if you just ask me to. Till my body's laying low, cold in.

[Luke Burbank]

Ground.

[F]

And even yet still I'd be craving you Every hour, every step, every.

[Saeed Jones]

Ounce.

[F]

Just let me nourish your body Too easy swallow softly let me break down and let our bodies reunite.

[Elena Passarello]

That was the Lowest Pair right here on Livewire. Their latest album, horse Camp, is available now. All right, that is going to do it for this week's episode of the show. Thank you so much to our guests Sylvia Moreno Garcia, Saeed Jones and the Lowest Pair. Livewire is brought to you in part by Alaska Airlines. Special thanks this week to Amanda Bullock and the fine folks at the Portland Book Festival.

[Saeed Jones]

Laura Haddon is our executive producer. Heather D. Michel is our executive director. Our producer and editor is Melanie Savchenko. Our assistant editor is Trey Hester. Our marketing manager is Paige Thomas, and our production fellow is Tanvi Kumar. Our house band is Ethan Fox Tucker, Sam Tucker, Al Alves and A. Walker Spring, who also composes our music. Molly Pettit is our technical director and mixer. And our house sound is by D. Neal Blake.

[Elena Passarello]

Additional funding provided by the Oregon Arts Commission, a state agency funded by the state of Oregon and the National Endowment for the Arts. Livewire was created by Robin Tenenbaum and Kate Sokoloff. This week, we'd like to thank members Christian Fulgham of Shoreline, Washington and Sarah Doane of Portland, Oregon. For more information about our show or how you can listen to our podcast, head on over to livewireradio.org I'm Luke Burbank for Elena Passarello and the whole Livewire team. Thanks for listening and we will see you next week.

[Luke Burbank]

Dear Livewire, when we first met, I was really shy. I had no idea we'd spend so much time together or that you'd be one to fill my heart with joy and make me want to be a better person. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know you were here. I was busy reading a review from one of our many, many rapturously smitten listeners. Oh, wait. Actually, no.

[Elena Passarello]

Sorry.

[Luke Burbank]

This is from Elena. Anyway, the point is, it would be really helpful if you wanted to leave us a review. Feel free to say really nice things about us and we'll even read them now and then on the show so.

[Elena Passarello]

You might hear your review of Livewire.

[Luke Burbank]

Read on the program itself.

[Elena Passarello]

Reviews help other people hear about the.

[Luke Burbank]

Show, and then we can keep doing this for a long, long time because we love having this job. Thank you so much. If you've left a review and if.

[Elena Passarello]

You'Re about to leave a review, you.

[Luke Burbank]

Can go ahead and do it right where you get the podcast.

[Saeed Jones]

From PRX.