Grace Is the Basis for Our Maturing

Summary

Living Influence with Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd Episode: Grace Is the Basis for Our Maturing Release Date: July 10, 2025

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Introduction

In this profound episode of Living Influence, co-hosts Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd delve deep into the transformative power of grace in the Christian journey. Titled "Grace Is the Basis for Our Maturing," the conversation centers on understanding how grace not only facilitates salvation but also serves as the foundation for spiritual growth and sanctification. Through heartfelt discussions, personal anecdotes, and scriptural insights, Bill and Scott explore the essence of grace and its pivotal role in shaping a believer's identity and actions.

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Exploring the Breadth of Grace

The episode marks the culmination of a series on grace, with Bill initiating the conversation by reflecting on their five-week journey.

Bill Thrall opens the dialogue by emphasizing the expansive nature of grace:

"Grace is something that existed in the Trinity... before creation... grace wasn't invented as a reason, as a means to take care of our sin."
[00:28]

Scott Boyd complements this by highlighting the depth of grace:

"Grace is the breadth of grace... It's how I was justified, but it's also the foundation for my maturing."
[00:34]

Together, they underscore that grace is intrinsic to God's nature and extends beyond merely addressing sin—it is the pathway to salvation and ongoing spiritual development.

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Scriptural Foundations: 1 Corinthians 15:10

Central to their discussion is the scripture from 1 Corinthians 15:10:

"By the grace of God, I am what I am."
[01:20]

Scott breaks down this verse, explaining:

"Paul is saying, 'Here I am. By the grace of God, here I am. I am what I am.'"
[01:26]

This passage serves as a cornerstone for understanding how grace defines and shapes one's identity and growth as a saint.

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Grace vs. Human Effort

A significant portion of the conversation addresses the delicate balance between divine grace and human effort. Bill raises a critical point:

"If human effort is part of the process, it is no longer grace."
[02:41]

Scott elaborates on this by contrasting common church teachings with their understanding of grace:

"Many churches preach a gospel that says you can't do anything to become a Christian. Jesus did it all."
[03:05]

They argue that relying on personal effort undermines the essence of grace, which is entirely God-initiated and not based on human actions.

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Identity in Grace: Who Am I?

The hosts delve into the profound question of identity from a grace-based perspective. Scott poses a thought-provoking inquiry:

"Who am I? What defines you? Do your behaviors define you? Does your shame define you? Or does your God define you?"
[08:50]

Bill shares a personal narrative reflecting on his identity:

"My first line was, 'I'm a man of sorrow,' which is where I was... you focused on the passions in my heart."
[09:02]

This exchange highlights the shift from self-defined identity, marred by shame and behavior, to a God-defined identity rooted in grace and love.

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The Transformative Power of Love

Transitioning from grace to love, Bill introduces Jesus' new commandment from John 13:

"A new commandment I give you, that you love one another just as I have loved you."
[17:32]

Scott connects this commandment to the evidence of righteousness:

"Love is the evidence of my righteousness. And in loving, I'll sin less."
[19:44]

They emphasize that love, fueled by grace, naturally leads to a reduction in sin and fosters healing. Scott poignantly states:

"Love heals. There is a desperation in humanity to be loved."
[20:22]

Bill adds:

"If we focus on sinning less, we actually become self-centered. If we focus on loving and being loved, we actually sin less."
[17:46]

This segment underscores love as the practical manifestation of grace in a believer's life, serving as the true marker of transformation and maturity.

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Sanctification Through Grace

The conversation seamlessly transitions to sanctification—the process of becoming more like Christ—rooted firmly in grace. Scott asserts:

"We have to trust who God says I am."
[21:20]

Bill reinforces this trust by highlighting God's love:

"Trusting God with me... that I am lovable."
[21:37]

They discuss how embracing one's God-given identity and trusting in His love leads to genuine healing and growth. This trust is not based on personal merit but on the unmerited favor of God, anchoring the believer's journey toward sanctification.

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Conclusion: Embracing a Grace-Filled Identity

In wrapping up, Bill and Scott reiterate the central theme:

"Grace is the foundation for my maturing as a saint."
[21:16]

They call listeners to reflect on their identity through the lens of God's grace and love, encouraging a shift from self-reliance to faith in God's transformative power. The episode concludes with an invitation to continue exploring this profound journey in future discussions.

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Key Takeaways

• Grace as Foundational: Grace is not only the basis for salvation but also essential for ongoing spiritual growth and sanctification.

• Identity in Christ: Embracing a God-defined identity, rather than a self-defined one plagued by shame and behavior, is crucial for maturing as a believer.

• Love as Evidence of Righteousness: Genuine love, inspired by grace, serves as the tangible evidence of one's righteousness and leads to a reduction in sin.

• Trust in God's Love: Trusting in who God says we are and His unwavering love is pivotal for healing and spiritual transformation.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Bill Thrall: "Grace is something that existed in the Trinity... before creation."
  [00:28]

• Scott Boyd: "Paul is saying, 'Here I am. By the grace of God, here I am. I am what I am.'"
  [01:26]

• Bill Thrall: "If human effort is part of the process, it is no longer grace."
  [02:41]

• Scott Boyd: "Do your behaviors define you? Does your shame define you? Or does your God define you?"
  [08:50]

• Scott Boyd: "Love heals. There is a desperation in humanity to be loved."
  [20:22]

• Bill Thrall: "If we focus on sinning less, we actually become self-centered. If we focus on loving and being loved, we actually sin less."
  [17:46]

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Closing Thoughts

This episode of Living Influence eloquently articulates the indispensable role of grace in both initiating and sustaining the Christian life. Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd invite listeners to internalize their God-given identity and allow grace to mold them into vessels of love and righteousness. By prioritizing love over mere rule-following, believers can experience true transformation and healing, embodying the essence of what it means to live under God's gracious influence.

Transcript

[Scott]

Foreign.

[Bill]

We've been on a series talking about the word grace, and today our topic is about grace is the basis for my maturing as a saint. Welcome to Living Influence. So we've been talking about grace, Bill. And we've been going, I guess, I don't know, maybe this is our fifth week.

[Scott]

Fifth week. Yeah.

[Bill]

And we talked about the. I like to use the word expanse. You like to use the word breadth.

[Scott]

Right.

[Bill]

The breadth of grace. We started where grace is something that existed in the Trinity.

[Audience]

Amen.

[Bill]

Actually before creation, which is like an amazing thought to go, what? And that grace wasn't invented as a reason, as a means to take care of our sin. And then we began to talk about grace is the means to my salvation. And you and I shared our stories.

[Scott]

Thank you, Lord.

[Bill]

Of when we first met Jesus.

[Audience]

Amen.

[Bill]

Or how we met Jesus. I mean, for me, I. I don't have a day. And. And you have a day.

[Scott]

I do.

[Bill]

When you met him, which is cool. So today's topic is about how it's the basis for my maturing as a saint.

[Audience]

Amen.

[Bill]

So grace not only is how I got saved, how I was justified, but it's actually how I mature.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Bill]

Going to start with the scripture, right?

[Scott]

Please.

[Bill]

It's 1 Corinthians 15:10. It's, by the grace of God, I am what I am.

[Audience]

Amen.

[Bill]

Tell me about that.

[Scott]

It's like Paul saying, here I am.

[Participant]

Yeah, Here I am.

[Scott]

By the grace of God. Here I am. I am what I am.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

I love to start there. Because as we talk through this amazing grace of God, this comes back to something we said already, but I want to repeat it. Grace is the means to my experiencing being justified, being declared right before God by faith. Abraham believed God, and he was declared right before God, justified. But grace is also the foundation for my maturing. And let's use a word that for prepare. It's also the foundation for my sanctification right now. We learned a principle about grace somewhere in our conversations. And part of the principle is this. If human effort is part of the process, it is no longer grace. And many, many churches will preach a gospel that says you can't do anything to become a Christian. Jesus did it all.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And then they transfer the truth to this reality. But now that you're a Christian, get with it.

[Bill]

It's like they can't fathom that there could be any other way.

[Scott]

Exactly. Yeah. What if there was God's way? If there was God's way. It's like Paul saying, here I am Scott. My name is Bill. Here I am.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Do I understand that when I present me to you, whoever you are, what you're seeing is a man who is experiencing grace? And what it is, is I am experiencing a new reality. And this is the part about grace we have to get right. I am experiencing a new reality that I have had no part in forming. It comes back to a question you asked me a week or two ago, and that is, what is this trusting thing? How do I. Is my God able? Is he capable of bringing me, Bringing me a sinner into his grace and saving me? Is he capable of doing that? The question I want to ask is, well, how much trust does that take? No, that's not the right question. The question I want to ask is, if my God is able to do that, can I trust him? Because there is no other way. This is hard for a lot of people who are around Christianity. When Christians will say to well, Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes onto the Father, but by me. It's hard for a lot of people because they want there to be a multiple number of means to God.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And God is saying, wait a minute.

[Bill]

Or didn't I do something?

[Scott]

Or didn't I do something? Or aren't I doing something? My religion is telling me I'm doing something. And yet grace is bringing me into a new reality that I have no part in forming. In our cohort together, we teach this. As you have received Christ Jesus your Lord, so walk ye in him.

[Guest]

Right.

[Scott]

We teach that so that justification and sanctification, everything. Everything I needed to be justified, Christ did for me at Calvary.

[Bill]

Yeah, but. So. But when you say this. So, like, by the grace of God, I am what I am, and I had no part in that being formed. Because if I did have a part by my effort, it would no longer be grace. Scripture that says that. So. So when. When you hit this head on, it's like, okay, so the Christian look, life looks like this. And. And this would include not doing these behaviors and doing these behaviors. But you will say boldly, if you try to improve by either not doing more of this, by doing less of this, doing more of this, you'll never get there.

[Scott]

Exactly.

[Bill]

To which then people say, well, then what do I do?

[Scott]

It's. It's like, we're missing a point. Yeah, we're missing a point. We have no part in forming who we are becoming.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

But we have a significant part in honoring God and who we are.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

You know, Jesus actually left with us the responsibility to take the gospel to the world. Jesus made some amazing statements. God, he told me that the evidence that I belong to him is how I love you. Maybe I'm very narrow in my thinking, but I've noticed it's really hard to love. Well, I've noticed that Jesus goes so far as to say, I got some ideas for you. I'd like you to love one another. I'd actually like you to love your enemies.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Wait a minute.

[Audience]

Wait a minute.

[Scott]

Can I go back to something I can do? Can I go back to that?

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

So part of our awareness together in experiencing grace is let's be careful. It's not without effort. But the effort doesn't bring me to this reality. My effort is a result of that reality.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

That's the key. What? What is it? So back when you. When you talked about the this and the that from Timothy Chapter two.

[Guest]

Right.

[Scott]

Sometimes. Sometimes in our discipleship models, we are suggesting that people can work really, really hard at not doing some of those things.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And they can work really, really hard at doing some of these things. And I've even heard a leader recently say to me, and. And if I'm making progress in either one, doesn't that mean I'm maturing?

[Bill]

What did you answer when he asked the question?

[Scott]

Yeah, it's. That's a good question. I'll answer his, then I'll answer you. Okay. If you read that passage in Timothy out of this is something I should do, I will fail. But if it's something I can do because of who I now am. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

[Bill]

Now you're not just playing semantics here.

[Scott]

No, not at all.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

What I'm really saying is, who am I? Who am I? Who. Who, by God's grace, am I here I am. Well, who is that?

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

So. So, you know, we ask a lot of leaders in our teaching and in our individual time with people, we ask this question, well, who are you? I say to you, who are you? Who are you? What defines you?

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Do. Do your behaviors define you?

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Does your shame define you?

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Or does your God define you?

[Bill]

You asked that for me.

[Scott]

I did, yes.

[Bill]

I think it was after Bev died.

[Participant]

Yep.

[Bill]

And we had met, or it may have been before we met. I can't remember the timing, but you asked me, write out for me, who am I? I remember the first line of what I wrote you.

[Participant]

I don't remember the.

[Bill]

I remember some of what I wrote you. And then I remember the Experience of talking to you about what I wrote you. My first line was, I'm a man of sorrow, which is where I was.

[Scott]

Absolutely.

[Bill]

I had no idea how long that would be true, if that would be true for the rest of my life, if that would be right. I told you stuff I had passion about. I told you stuff that, you know, that I had done. I told you what I had going on. I told you about behaviors and things about myself I didn't like. And the interesting thing was, when you and I went over that letter, every behavior I mentioned, you skipped. You didn't even mention it. You. You focused on, I don't know, you focused on the passions in my heart. You focused on. You focused on me.

[Audience]

Amen.

[Bill]

And as we go through this material, I remember that.

[Scott]

Good for you.

[Bill]

And I remember.

[Scott]

Great story. That's a great story, Scott. Thank you. Thank you. At our very first time, we sat down, talked about grace. We said these two things about God. He is love and he is full of grace.

[Guest]

Right.

[Scott]

Gosh, I wish, Scott, we could learn to put as much emphasis on our person as God does.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

I wish we could learn to put less emphasis on our contribution or our efforts, our significance, our capacity. If we just pause for a minute and just say this. Who does God say I am?

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Does the God of love care so much about my person that he came to a place called Calvary to do something? To do something.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And that's why I said just a while ago, this process of understanding grace and the theology of it is the theology of justification, the theology of sanctification. But let me. Let me pause here for a minute and just talk about this. Who. Who does God say I am? In Ephesians, chapter four, he says this. Bill Scott audience, if you're a believer, I want you to know something. I have recreated you in my image. You are truly holy and truly righteous. And lots of Christians cringe at that rather than rejoice in it.

[Bill]

We kind of think it'll be true after we die.

[Scott]

Exactly. Exactly. And I know this sounds like too simple an answer, but this process of my eternal reality doesn't begin when I die. It began the day I was born.

[Bill]

When I was born again.

[Participant]

Yes.

[Scott]

That's when it begins.

[Guest]

Right.

[Scott]

What did Jesus do at Calvary? I can rattle them off. They all have profound dynamic. But he died for my sin.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

You know he did. He took upon him my shame.

[Guest]

Right.

[Scott]

Every time a pastor in a church of Christians gets up and reminds those Christians that they are sinning, he is denying What Jesus did.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

He's denying it.

[Bill]

Denying it.

[Scott]

Because when you remind Christians they are sinners, you'll always trigger the shame in the Christian.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

But what if he took upon him our shame? What if that were true? I like to ask this question a lot. Is God able to die for my sin? Evangelicals always say yes.

[Audience]

Amen. Amen.

[Scott]

Is that God able to take upon him my shame? Whoa, wait a minute. Let me, Let me give you another one. Is, Is that God able, at a place called Calvary to actually, when I trust him, bring me to death?

[Participant]

Yeah, we.

[Scott]

I've been singing songs and I've been in churches and you know, we have been cruc. Unified with Christ. I. I've met a lot of Christians who don't really understand what they just saying or understand what they just said.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

You see, at a place called Calvary, Jesus Christ took the sinner with him into death. And I'll never die again.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

I'll never die again.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

But I am dead. What died? What died? What died? The Adamic. The Adam.

[Participant]

The old self.

[Scott]

The old self. The Adam in me died.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Now we could be morbid about that or we can rejoice in the next statement. And that is, is Jesus capable of taking me to death and bringing me to life? Did the resurrection of Jesus Christ actually give me life?

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Yeah. We, we talk about being saved and having eternal life. But let's, let's, let's take Paul's words. By the grace of God, I am what I am. What am I?

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

I am a new creature. The Christian life is not about changing who I used to be.

[Guest]

Right.

[Scott]

Into who I ought to be. The Christian life is about maturing into who I am.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Who does God say I am? Who does God say I am? Am I maturing into my new reality? So Jesus died for my sins. He took upon him my shame. He. He actually took me to death and has brought me to life. And in that instant at Calvary, you know what that sounds like? It sounds like this Jesus Christ, the son of God, transformed me into a saint.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

So how I see myself as a Christian has a profound effect on the way I live.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Do I see myself as God sees me?

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Bill]

So do I see myself as God sees me? Do I see myself through my shame?

[Audience]

Amen.

[Bill]

Do I see myself through my behavior?

[Scott]

Exactly. How do I see me? How do I see? How do each of you see yourselves? What if we could again, in grace, come to trust the one who loves me, who is full of grace and Wants to give me his best. Yeah, he wants to give me his best. He wants me to be one who is living in my new reality. I know we're just sharing quickly words here, but, but I understand the difficulty people have with this profound reality. Are you saying, Bill and Scott, that I, because of who God made me, that I am righteous? And the answer is yes, it is.

[Bill]

What you're saying it is.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Now another question that people ask and should ask. But what would the evidence of my righteousness be? It's the right question. Yeah, it's the very right question. I want to suggest to you. We, we have to go to John, Jesus's teaching. I love to look at the Gospel of John, chapters 13, 17 and, and I personally just call it the theology of Jesus. But in those chapters you have the foundation of every New Testament doctrine. And he begins in chapter 13. And he says very simply to his disciples, a new commandment I give you.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

That you love one another just as I've loved you.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Bill]

Actually I was thinking about that this morning because it's like if we focus on sinning less, we actually become self centered.

[Scott]

Absolutely.

[Bill]

And, and the fruit of that focus of sinning less is that I end up loving less.

[Scott]

Absolutely.

[Bill]

And then, however, if we focus on, on loving and being loved, we actually sin less.

[Audience]

Amen.

[Bill]

But I was thinking about it, and I was thinking about this new commandment that Jesus gave us because it's not that we keep the 451 or however many there are. I don't know, the precepts. We don't keep all the Jewish law. It's not about keeping all the Jewish laws, but it is about keeping this new commandment that Jesus gave us to love one another.

[Audience]

Amen.

[Bill]

And that's where we love more.

[Scott]

Well said, Scott. Jesus said to you, Scott, and to me and to us, I'm going to give you a commandment that you can do the Old Testament commandments. We couldn't do them.

[Guest]

Right.

[Scott]

Many, many, many people over many centuries now have believed that the law was given as a code of conduct.

[Guest]

Right.

[Scott]

It wasn't. The law was given to prove to humanity that humanity was unrighteous.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

That the humanity could not keep the law. Then Jesus comes along and he says, scott and Bill, you're my disciples and I'm going to tell you so I'm going to give you a new commandment. No. Listen to the wisdom of Jesus. One you can do.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. How can I do a new commandment because you ain't who you used to be.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

You can do a new commandment because you are now righteous.

[Participant]

Right.

[Scott]

The evidence of our righteousness is our ability to obey what we never could do. A commandment by loving one another. And so there's this profound dynamic. Wait a minute. And you just said it so well. What's the evidence of that? I love.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And in loving, I'll sin less. Galatians actually says that love is the fulfillment of the law.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Oh, wait a minute. You got me all screwed up here. You just said that I can't keep these 451 precepts. And trying to keep them is not the evidence of my righteousness, but love is the evidence of my righteousness. And if love is the evidence of my righteousness, then automatically because of I am who God says I am. Automatically. Now something's happening. Love will cause me to sin less.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

You know what love does? Love heals.

[Bill]

It does it.

[Scott]

Isn't it just amazing? Pause for a. Let's just pause for a minute and just soak that in.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Love. Love heals.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Love heals. There. There is a desperation in humanity to be loved.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Because humanity knows it's not. Well. And you know what we did wrong? We. We've reduced the gospel to condemning the sinner.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And people don't like that.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

You know what they need? They need to be loved.

[Guest]

Right.

[Scott]

Because love is what's going to meet their deepest need.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Love is going to meet their deepest.

[Bill]

It's transformational.

[Scott]

That's what's transformational. Now we're thinking about grace as the foundation.

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Scott]

For my maturing as a saint.

[Guest]

Right.

[Scott]

But I have to come to grips with something. Do I trust who God says I am?

[Participant]

Yeah.

[Bill]

There's another place there. And it's maybe where we ought to stop for this. This episode. Trusting who God says I am. That I am his beloved.

[Audience]

Amen.

[Bill]

That he loves me. So in this trusting God with me, I begin to come to the conclusion that I'm lovable.

[Audience]

Amen.

[Bill]

That's the place where we begin to receive God's love.

[Scott]

Well said.

[Bill]

And that love begins to heal us.

[Audience]

Amen.

[Bill]

So thanks for being with us today. We're going to continue on this topic of grace as the basis for my maturing as a saint. And our next episode, and we hope to see you then. Thanks for being here.

[Scott]

Thank you.

[Bill]

Thank you for listening to the podcast. We're really glad that you're here. We'd love to know that you're here. And so if you could leave a comment, we would appreciate that. But more importantly, if you know someone that should listen to this or hear it, we would love for you to share it with them. Thanks again.