How to Stop Letting Your Experience Define Who You Are

Summary

Podcast Summary: "How to Stop Letting Your Experience Define Who You Are"

Podcast: Living Influence with Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd
Hosts: Bill Thrall, Scott Boyd
Date: August 21, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd dive into a foundational question for people of faith: “Are you defined by your God, or by your experience?” They unpack the dynamics of shame, explore how personal experiences can overshadow a divine identity, and point listeners toward the transformational power of seeing oneself as God sees them. With personal stories and biblical insight, the conversation invites deep reflection on shame, self-worth, and the redemptive message of Christianity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Guilt vs. Shame: The Foundational Distinction

• Bill: “Guilt is the awareness in me that I've done something wrong. That's guilt...shame is a reality in me that because I've done something wrong, I become convinced that there's something wrong with me.” (00:30)
• Guilt prompts self-correction; shame pervades identity and value.
• The attributes of shame include insecurity, hiddenness, and the overwhelming sense that “there's something wrong with me.”
• Society spends billions each year addressing shame and self-image, but self-improvement cannot resolve the core issue.

2. The Role of Theology in Identity

• Many Christians continue to view themselves as “sinners” even after embracing faith, leading to what the hosts call “sin management.” (03:57)
• Bill: “There is a theology that still defines me as a sinner...I can make a promise to anyone who still believes by their theology they are a sinner, you are still being defined by your shame.” (03:57)
• Churches use terms like grace and forgiveness, but often subtly reinforce a model where believers must keep “improving” to be worthy (04:04–05:21).

3. The Trap of Comparison and Self-Justification

• Many strive to be “better” Christians by outperforming others, fostering pride and comparison, reminiscent of the Pharisees in scripture (05:25–06:19).
• Bill: “Comparison is void of love. So back to this phenomenon called shame.” (06:21)

4. The Genesis Narrative: The Birth of Shame

• Bill unpacks Genesis 3, explaining that after Adam and Eve’s sin, their first instinct was to cover themselves—illustrating humanity’s original attempt at “sin management.” (06:21–08:00)
• Their self-made coverings were sufficient only until God appeared, revealing their efforts as inadequate.
• Bill: “Until you come to the conclusion that you have no answer for your sin, you will never need your God.” (08:33)

5. God’s Constant Presence and Our Awareness

• Voldemort: Wonders if God’s presence is only felt when he “shows up,” since self-solutions seem to work until confronted by God.
• Bill: “There is never a time where God does not show up for me, ever… Sometimes my awareness changes so that he's there for me.” (09:17–10:02)

6. The Escalating Effects of Shame: Covering, Hiding, Fear, and Blame

• Even after covering themselves, Adam and Eve felt fear and hid from God (10:02–12:02).
• Shame produces fear and prompts blame—both toward others (comparison) and toward self (internal condemnation).
• Bill: “One of the great evidences that we live in shame as Christians is because fear is still a dominant voice in our experience.” (10:48)

7. The Redemptive Response: God’s Solution Versus Ours

• Rather than leaves, God clothed Adam and Eve with animal skins—a biblical hint that redemption requires God’s initiative, not human effort. (12:06–14:09)
• Bill: “Could I, before my God, admit that my attempts to deal with my sin don't work? And I'm willing to trust the blood of Jesus?” (14:09)
• Accepting God’s covering requires vulnerability and the admission that self-driven solutions fail.

8. How Shame Distorts Relationships

• Shame shapes not just self-perception but also how we think others and God view us.
• Bill: “When I see myself in my shame, I actually believe that's the way you see me...and that's the way God sees me.” (14:44)
• The invitation: Rather than letting shame shape our reality, lean into God’s declaration about our worth.

9. Practical Examples: Stories of Shame and Redemption

• Scott (Host): Shares about feeling like an “underachiever,” how this shame colored his perception and responses—even to simple questions from loved ones (15:59–17:26).
• Bill: Remembers his own youth, where not feeling he “mattered” drove striving and a craving for affirmation; ultimately, embracing God’s love (“I love you Bill. You matter.”) shifted his identity and spirit (17:26–18:46).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |------------|-----------|-------| | 00:30 | Bill | “Guilt is the awareness in me that I've done something wrong. That's guilt... Shame is a reality in me that because I've done something wrong, I become convinced that there's something wrong with me.” | | 03:57 | Bill | “If you still believe by your theology you are a sinner, you are still being defined by your shame.” | | 06:21 | Bill | “Comparison is void of love.” | | 08:33 | Bill | “Until you come to the conclusion that you have no answer for your sin, you will never need your God.” | | 10:02 | Bill | “Sometimes my awareness changes so that he's there for me.” | | 10:48 | Bill | “One of the great evidences that we live in shame as Christians is because fear is still a dominant voice in our experience.” | | 14:09 | Bill | “Could I, before my God, admit that my attempts to deal with my sin don't work? And I'm willing to trust the blood of Jesus?” | | 14:44 | Bill | “When I see myself in my shame, I actually believe that's the way you see me. And you know what? I actually believe that's the way God sees me.” | | 18:46 | Bill | “I exchanged my words about me to his words about me. It was like I received the coat. I received his solution to my shame.” | | 19:31 | Host | “Are you defined by your God or are you defined by your experience? And if you're defined by your experience, has experience become your God?” |

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:30–02:30: Guilt vs. Shame and their role in identity
• 03:57–05:21: Sin management mindset in Christian theology and churches
• 06:21–08:00: Genesis narrative and humanity’s earliest responses to shame
• 10:02–12:02: Awareness of God’s presence and the progression from shame to fear and blame
• 14:09–15:19: Accepting the futility of self-driven solutions and relying on Jesus’ covering
• 15:59–17:26: Scott's personal story of shame influencing relational dynamics
• 17:26–18:46: Bill's testimony about the impact of believing God's words over his life

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Tone & Style

The conversation is honest, reflective, and relational, blending theological depth with warmth and practical storytelling. Both hosts emphasize vulnerability and the real struggles faced in moving from shame to freedom in identity.

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Conclusion

This episode challenges listeners to reconsider how their experiences and shame shape their identity, and instead embrace the truth of who they are according to God. Through personal anecdotes and scriptural exploration, Bill, Scott, and their guest remind us that no amount of self-effort or comparison will resolve our deepest insecurities—the invitation is to accept God’s covering, love, and identity as our own.

Transcript

[Host]

Am I defined by my God, or am I defined by my experience? And if I'm defined by my experience, is my experience my God? Welcome to Living Influence.

[Bill]

Oh, that's powerful.

[Host]

Well, Bill and Voldemort, we're continuing this series on From Shame to no Complication. We've done it before, but maybe we just start with what is your definition? Our definition of shame?

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Bill]

Thank you.

[Host]

I think this is right. Start there.

[Bill]

Start. We're going to keep talking about it. I best describe it. In contrast, a guilt is the awareness in me that I've done something wrong. That's guilt. And actually God, in his grace, gave humanity a conscience so they would know guilt.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Bill]

So the guilt of what they've done wrong would lead them to a savior. But. But in contrast, shame is a reality in me that because I've done something wrong, I become convinced that there's something wrong with me. And that reality, that there's something wrong with me lays a foundation in me for the voice of shame. And as we said in our last session, the voice of shame has many, many things it wants to declare about me that aren't right. You talked last time about your insecurity. I know my insecurity, my hiddenness, all kinds of what we would call the attributes of shame. Why? Because there is something wrong with me. In our culture alone, billions of dollars are spent each year on therapy for people searching for something that'll make them feel better about themselves. Somebody convince that I'm better than I see me, and, and, and, and they're right. There is something wrong. What happens, and I'm going to talk to us as Christians, what happens as a Christian when I still see myself in the condition of my shame is I'm convinced that I'm still a sinner. Nothing can change in my view of me until I learn to lean into who God says I am. I'll say that again. Nothing can change my view of me until I lean into who God says I am.

[Host]

I have to lean into that despite the fact that I still make mistakes.

[Bill]

Absolutely. Is my experience defining me? Have I inadvertently learned to trust my experience? Is my experience become my God? Oh, no, no. God is. No, no. Well, then why aren't we trusting our God instead of our experience? Why aren't we trusting our God when he calls me a saint? Why aren't I trusting my God when he says I can live without condemnation? I have to ask the question, who is my God? What is my God? And it's okay to ask that. Now let's Take your last statement and put it into the reality of our process as human beings. I'm a person. At 17, I accepted Jesus as my savior. I'm not 17 anymore. I've lived a long time trying to the best of my ability, trust God with who he says I am, trusting God with the reality of Christ in me. And we're going to spend a lot of time on what I just said, but for right now, there is a theology that still defines me as a sinner. We are going to call that sin management, and we're going to call that sin management and we're actually going to do a series on sin management.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Bill]

But there is a theology that defines me as a sinner and I can make a promise to anyone who still believes by their theology they are sinner. I can tell you you are still being defined by your sh. I can promise you that.

[Voldemort]

And by the way, I mean my experience is you can go to most churches, they, they will use the terms grace.

[Bill]

Yes.

[Voldemort]

They will talk about forgiveness, they will talk about that we have been made new.

[Bill]

Yes.

[Voldemort]

But the underlying theology and what's actually conveyed through follow on messages and just what's expected. It's, there's a deep sense of.

[Host]

I.

[Voldemort]

Am still a sinner and I need, I need to buck up.

[Bill]

Right.

[Voldemort]

And improve in order to be just a little more worthy. It's this. Sometimes it's subtle, other times it's not so subtle. Not so subtle.

[Bill]

I agree.

[Voldemort]

But it's hard because I'm sure a lot of our listeners right now may be going through their head thinking, well, my church, they believe in grace.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Voldemort]

They're not feeling good about themselves.

[Bill]

Yeah. That's a very good distinction. I like that.

[Host]

And, and many Christians feel that the idea of them being a Christian is that they're working on improving themselves. And they're proud of that.

[Bill]

Oh, totally.

[Host]

I mean, that's the joke. This is what I do.

[Bill]

Yeah.

[Host]

To be a good Christian, you know.

[Bill]

They'Re as proud of that as the Pharisees were.

[Host]

Yes, yes.

[Bill]

Oh, I know.

[Host]

And how scary is that?

[Bill]

No, no, I mean, there's a story of a Pharisee and the publican and the Pharisee says, and the Pharisee trusted in himself that he was righteous. See, that's what happens is tragically, tragically when sin and I still see myself as a sinner releases my shame. I tragically believe that working harder on sinning less will actually make me more godly. I actually believe that I have for sure. Exactly. And in believing That I actually look over my shoulder and see that I'm doing better than Scott. Oh, no, I would never do that. Because that's called pride. I do it every day because how else would I measure how well I'm doing if I don't have Scott to.

[Host]

Measure yourself again, you're hitting too close.

[Voldemort]

To home right now. This is like, you know.

[Bill]

But that's.

[Voldemort]

You mean we can't compare? That's not gonna.

[Bill]

But that's the reality of it. See, comparison is void of love. Yeah, it's void of love. So back to this phenomenon called shame. Genesis chapter three. We're introduced to it biblically, and I want to make sure we capture this. Most of us know the story. I'll start the story here. So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was the light to the eyes, the tree was good, desire to make one wise. She took of its fruit and she ate. And she also gave some of to her husband who was with her. And he ate. Then the eyes of them both were open. I knew that they were naked. Now that's an interesting reality. For the first time in history, humanity sins. And for the. In the moment of their sin, they recognize something that's always been true. They're naked, but for the first time, they are ashamed because of their nakedness. And because they are ashamed of their nakedness. It says they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths. What's so interesting there is in the very first act of sin, humanity experiences shame. And they do the first act of sin management. I'm going to solve what I did because I sinned. Now, what's so interesting is it satisfied them. Don't miss that point. Between the two of them being covered of their nakedness, we think we're okay.

[Voldemort]

We've done something, it's working.

[Bill]

We. We solved it. We're better than we were. We solved it until this character God shows up. And then God shows up.

[Voldemort]

Not enough.

[Bill]

And when they heard the sound of the Lord walking in the garden, of the cool of the night day, and the man and his wife, they hid themselves. What caused them to hide if they recovered? See, so what. What they realize is their effort to manage their sin did not satisfy God. And therefore it wasn't enough for them. What a tragedy to come to that conclusion. He just come to that conclusion. All of humanity come to this conclusion. Until you come to the conclusion that you have no answer for your sin, you will never need your God. But when you come to the conclusion that you have no answer for your sin. You'll need your God.

[Voldemort]

Maybe this is going a little off script.

[Bill]

That's all right.

[Host]

I like off script.

[Voldemort]

Do you like off script?

[Host]

Yeah, go for it.

[Voldemort]

For some reason, I kind of knew that. But this idea of they felt like it was enough until God showed up.

[Bill]

Right, Right.

[Voldemort]

And before, they were talking about our tendency look over our shoulder and compare ourselves. So is it almost like God is not always present and we feel good and then he shows, and then we realize he's there, and then we suddenly say, oh, it's not enough, and then he's gone? Like, oh, comparison works. And then comparison doesn't work, is it?

[Bill]

Listen, that's Baltimore. Thank you. What's hard for us as human beings is to live in the commitment that Jesus has for us. I will never leave you or forsake you. It. It's hard for us because when I teach this and people go, oh, wait a minute, never leave me. What it means is, excuse me, everybody, but we've taken Jesus to some pretty weird places. I'm sorry. We just have. So. So what happens? Voldemort in the language becomes the language. You just said, well, God's not here right now. He's never not here right now. Yeah. There is never a time where God does not show up for me, ever.

[Voldemort]

My awareness just changes.

[Bill]

Sometimes my awareness changes so that he's there for me. Oh, my gosh. I recognize. He's my solution. We talked about this last time, the solution to my shame. And then in the story in Genesis, says, but the Lord God called out to man and said to him, where are you? And he said, I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid. Listen. Why? Why am I afraid? Because I was naked. Wait a minute. I thought you had fig leaves on. Humanity recognized in a moment that what they did didn't meet the need. And so I hid. So. So he adds another dimension of shame. Okay, said management. Covering, hiding, and now fear. One of the great evidences that we live in shame as Christians is because fear is still a dominant voice in our experience. Oh, wow. And wait a minute. But God's right there now. This isn't like God's coming day after tomorrow. He's right there. And then it says. And he said, well, who told you you were naked? That's God's question. Who told you you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree? Right. Command you not to eat. And the man said, the woman you gave to me. She. And the woman said, the serpent deceived me. So. So this is another principle of shame. They move into blame. Yeah, we use the word comparison a minute ago, but you know what comparison carries with it? Blame. Blame. What? Scott, you haven't worked as hard as I have on my sin. You aren't as good as I am at this. So I'm blaming you for not being enough because I believe I'm more superior. So in comparison, there's always blame. Those are the attributes, should I say.

[Host]

Of shame, I mean, which creates distance.

[Voldemort]

Between us, which is void of love.

[Bill]

Yeah, yeah. And it creates distance between us and God. And then. And then I want to just finish the story. It says, and the Lord God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins, and he clothed them. The ending of that story is. Is the redemptive process of God. But by the way, God also knew they were naked. God also knew that for the first time, they were aware of their shame. And he did something. He sacrificed an animal and blood was spilled. The great redemptive story in the Bible, that blood is the solution to sin. And so he, for the life of the flesh is in the blood. And I've given it to you, he says, as the redemptive story. Now, what does that mean? Adam and Eve wore the skins of animals the rest of their lives as a testimony that they had accepted God's solution to their shame. So as we talk about shame, we talked about this last time. I want to add things here. Can I lean into this question? Can I trust my God with my shame and let his redemptive story cover me? Is my Lord Jesus capable of dying for my sin, we said this last time. And is he capable of taking upon him my shame? Could I receive that from him? Could I walk, so to speak, every day the rest of my life with the blood of Jesus covering me? So that very carefully I am admitting, and Adam was admitting when he wore the coat, that the leaves didn't work? That's what he admitted.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Bill]

Could I, before my God, admit that my attempts to deal with my sin don't work? And I'm willing to trust the blood of Jesus? Am I willing to trust the work of Jesus at Calvary for him to become the solution to my shame? Two more little thoughts, but probably not so little. Do you know, when I see myself in my shame, I actually believe that's the way you see me.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Bill]

And you know what? I actually believe that's the way God sees me. And so a little while ago, you made the statement, well, sometimes my shame helps me get in touch with what it does. And what I try to do then is I say, oh, my shame is helping me see how screwed up I am. It's helping me see that I've done wrong, but I have no solution to it. What if I, instead of letting my shame tell me how I'm doing, what if I could learn to trust my God and let him tell me how I'm doing?

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Voldemort]

So going back to the example of Adam and Eve, and thank you for that because I never thought about putting on the animal clothes was an acceptance of what could cover them.

[Bill]

Exactly.

[Voldemort]

So I. So I should be continuously reminding myself like Adam. So almost like an. An example. Putting. Putting on the skin. I see myself differently is equivalent to how God sees me and how others are seeing me. That's. That's like a decision that is.

[Bill]

Absolutely.

[Voldemort]

It's across all, I guess, all view viewpoints of who I am.

[Bill]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Voldemort]

Because I never thought about Adam and Eve that way.

[Host]

I got a story that kind of illustrates this. So when you allow your experience and your shame to. To find you, you often feel not enough.

[Bill]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Host]

And so for a good portion of my life, I felt like an underachiever, which most people that know me really laugh that. I remember a time where I. I was at work all week trying to get a project done, and I was procrastinating and I was letting my experience define me to become shame. It turned into my shame was defining me.

[Bill]

And.

[Host]

And I get home that weekend and my wife asks an innocent question because she was wanting to plan her weekend. And her question was, when do you think you will till the garden? Do you know how hard I've worked this week? I got all offended because I felt like she was accusing me of being lazy. And it was. It was my accusation that I had been living with. With myself all week long. And then. And then she asked a question, and I think she's defined me by my shame. And she saw the reaction. It's like I just wanted to know was I going to be able to plant the seeds Sunday night or Saturday night? I just was trying to figure it out, but we do that.

[Bill]

Great example. Yeah, great example. You know, one of the examples, Scott, that I have is that my shame for most of my developmental years convinced me that I didn't matter, that I did not matter.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Bill]

And because I was convinced I did not matter. I lived my life, man. Do I matter. Get out of my way because I'm going to tell you, I'm going to show you.

[Host]

You were trying to justify.

[Bill]

Oh, I was trying. I was trying to do something else. I was trying to get rid of it. If I work really hard at mattering, I'll not think of myself, that I don't matter.

[Scott]

Right.

[Bill]

And I wore myself out. But I wish some of my high school friends could be here right now to laugh with us because I was such a bore. I mean, I was such a hard friend because I was forever, ever begging, please, please tell me I matter. Please, please, please acknowledge me. Do something. It was, like, painful. Yeah, it was painful. Leaning into, let's say, our lesson last time, leaning into, relying upon the words of Jesus. Wait a minute. I love you, Bill. You matter. Changed my life.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Bill]

Changed my life. That was a redemptive moment for me. See, what. What I did, I exchanged words. I exchanged my words about me to his words about me. It was like I received the coat. I received his solution to my shame. The question we're asking, is there an answer to my shame?

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Bill]

And what we're working on is this. Yes, his name is Jesus. Can I trust him with my shame? Can I receive, so to speak, the coat he has for me to wear, which is the coat of righteousness? Wow. Just think of what I just said.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Host]

So I'm going to go back to our very first question that we started with. Are you defined by your God.

[Voldemort]

Or.

[Host]

Are you defined by your experience? And if you're defined by your experience, has experience become your God?

[Bill]

Oh, that's hard.

[Voldemort]

I know what I want. I know what I want.

[Host]

Amen.

[Bill]

Amen.

[Host]

Thank you for listening to the podcast. We're really glad that you're here. We'd love to know that you're here, and so if you could leave a comment, we would appreciate that. But more importantly, if you know someone that should listen to this or hear it, we would love for you to share it with them. Thanks again.